- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

Should engineers be licensed (Was "Geeks")

by CLeyson＠aol.com

On Sat 15 Dec 2001, Jeffrey S. Sharp wrote: > There's a big difference between writing code to solve problems and being > a software engineer. Designing, coding, and compiling is only 40% of the > battle. Hopefully you're also spending some time planning and testing. The company I work for seem to have forgotten the planning and testing part of the software design process. We had a lot of embedded software written by outside contractors for a 486 running QNX real time OS. Over the years the software has evolved into the hardware equivalent of a rats nest and it's been left to our customers to find the bugs - most being "show stoppers". I sometimes wonder just how many customers we've lost because of this. Also, dont get me wrong, the same should be applied to hardware design. We recently interviewed an electronics engineering graduate who didn't know the difference between NPN and PNP transistors !! What do they teach kids these days ?? Should engineers be licensed ? - It's not a bad idea. Chris Leyson

24 years, 6 months

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Couple of items available - more info . . .

by cfandt＠netsync.net

>X-Authentication-Warning: ns2.ezwind.net: majordom set sender to >owner-classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org using -f >X-Sender: cfandt(a)206.231.8.2 >X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 >Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 21:54:36 -0500 >To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> >From: Christian Fandt <cfandt(a)netsync.net> >Subject: Couple of items available . . . >Sender: owner-classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org >Reply-To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org > >I've got four Iomega Bournoulli Boxes, model A210H, if anybody wants them. >I can maybe think of a few bits to swap for them but that doesn't matter. I >just need the room (as several list members who've visited us can attest) >and want them to go to a new home. > >I can ship but just reimburse me for the shipping cost and maybe purchase >of a proper shipping carton or two as needed. Seem to weigh 15 to 20 lbs. >each. Zip code 14701. > >Also, any interest in several IBM 3287 printers? Dot matrix 132 column page >printers which use SNA network interface. I have had a few questions asking (basically) what those Bournoulli Boxes are. Please forgive me as I thought they were somewhat well known - but that's probably because we used them all over the plant where I once worked and I kinda got used to them. Plus, it's been a relatively long time since they fell out use and younger folks of course wouldn't know much of them. At any rate, they are a removeable media mass storage device which uses what are essentially disk cartridges. Vintage '82-'85, I think. The media inside its case, IIRC, is similar to an 8" floppy disk except encased in a rigid plastic case. The cart is something like 8" wide, about 12" long and about 5/8" or so thick. These model A210H units have two 10 megabyte drives within a single enclosure. It measures approximately 5 inches high, about 12 inches wide and about 13-14 inches front-to-back. The PC XT, AT and compatible host machines had installed within themselves a proprietary ISA card with a cable from it to the Bournoulli Box. I know I've got at least two of these cards tucked away somewhere but I need to dig and hunt for them. They're packed away in one of the boxes from our move to this house several years ago. I've got a software driver disk or two around too. Same thing: where the h*** are they at the moment? But I can find them with diligent hunting. We live on a 66' x 210' lot and they can be eventually found :-) Iomega's Bournoulli Boxes were great for use as backup of the contemporary 20-to-80 mb hard disks of that era. That is what these units had been used for at my ex-employer along with their use as local data storage for daily Customer Service and Field Service records. I rescued them when we cleaned out an off site warehouse back in the mid 90's. I've also got maybe a dozen or more of the cartridges, too, which I just found. Yours for the taking too. Same conditions as previously stated (pay shipping, help towards a shipping box if actually needed, etc., yadda-yadda-yadda). Come and get 'em. Thanks. -Chris -- -- NNNN Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt(a)netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.antiquewireless.org/

24 years, 6 months

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[PDP8-Lovers] how to clean a PDP8/A, dishwasher?

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Dec 15, 15:47, Chad Fernandez wrote: > So it's almost like cloth, but made of wire? Yup, though the ferrite core rings mean the spacing between strands is larger than in cloth woven from thread. And it's knitted. I was told the other day that there are still two old ladies in the Midlands who can repair some types of core by re-knitting it. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

24 years, 6 months

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if you hadn't already known this about the PDP-8

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On December 13, Doc wrote: > > Remember Linux too needs lots of memory. With >16 meg on a video card > > your OS needs about 16x that. It is the video display that is the > > killer. > > BZZZT!! Wrong. > > Linux *likes* lots of memory. I can show you X running on a 386SX with > 12M and a 1M video card. Not just a demo; that's my friend's firewall. A firewall with a video card? Gotta love them PCs. ;) But yes, I agree...Linux can be made to work well on machines with small quantities of memory. It's actually pretty good at it. -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL

24 years, 6 months

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Is there no end

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 12/15/2001 7:18:46 PM Eastern Standard Time, jhellige(a)earthlink.net writes: << >That is just right. Airc, IBM would'nt buy Intel's processor for the IBM >PC unless Intel had multiple sources. This was to ensure supply to IBM if >Intel's plants were overridden by bugs, damages by an infusion of dust (or >aluminum powder.....;-)). AMD at least (and I think Seimens and NEC as >well) was contracted to produce the 8088 cpu. AMD was given all info >needed to clone the chips. > >This relationship continued through the 80286 and 80386 processors, but >became very strained as AMD was making 386's cheaper and imho better than >the intel products by modifying the Intel designs. Intel and AMD ended up >in court over the 80486 chip ; intel claiming that the contract between it >and AMD did not include information or production of this CPU. AMD was >eventually forced to produce a 'clean room' 80486 design but because of >the delays caused by the litigation they had plenty of time to do it. AMD's faster coprocessors also caused quite a problem if I remember correctly. Harris also pushed the 286 faster than any of the other sources. I remember PC Magazine running an article comparing various 286 machines with a headline that mimicked the Corvair's 'Unsafe at any speed' headline. >> I've always liked AMD stuff. My first PC I got myself was an AMD 386 dx40. I couldnt decide whether to get a 486-25 and didnt quite understand the sx/dx issue. Ran OS/2 great on 8 meg. Later, I found that the AMD 486 dx2/80 was cheaper than Intel's 66 so I got that and never any problems with it. -- Kwanzaa is NOT a real holiday.

24 years, 6 months

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Burroughs - any information?

by mhstein＠usa.net

Where were you a few years ago when I was looking for a home for my Burroughs software & manuals (didn't run across this list at the time though). After 10 years or so programming these babies (L/TC/B80&90) I'd accumulated pretty well every piece of firmware, utility & app software there was, but then (as now) there wasn't much interest in what most people (unfairly, in my biased opinion) derided as "just" an accounting machine (you haven't lived 'till you've played Lunar Lander with a golfball printer...) Unlike the mainframes, these machines were generally sold outright & therefore scrapped outside of Burroughs, so there were lots of them around. Finally sold the hard disk carts to a rebuilder, recycled the floppies & tossed the mylar tapes & manuals. HOWEVER, I do still have an electrical parts catalogue from 1972, a little early for the B80, but might have some of those chips from the TC listed; if you're interested, send me a couple of part numbers off list & I'll see if they're listed and it's worth while scanning it for ya. If size vs computing power were a criterion, there wouldn't be very many old mainframes in Sridhar's collection... And yes, rugged indeed; extremely reliable, aside >from the occasional head crash. Alas, many of them were disembowelled & ended up as desks or workbenches. As mentioned elsewhere, I also still have a digital cassette drive & tapes with who knows what on them (for the L/TC's), as well as a TD700 flat- screen display unit & controller for the B80, if anybody's interested. mike ----------------Original Message----------------- Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 17:44:21 +0100 From: "Sipke de Wal" <sipke(a)wxs.nl> Subject: Re: Burroughs - any information? I did obtain about 5 TC5500 consoles and a B80 back in the '80. They were rather large for their computing power and no software was obtainable so I scrapped them. I still have a couple of kilo's TTL-chips from them, with their own Burroughs legacy partnumbers. Very rugged design though! Maybe you could get some old "B" hardeware but software was out of the question. Sipke de Wal

24 years, 6 months

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Is there no end

by mythtech＠Mac.com

Ugh... this takes the cake. I was pulling apart a 486 logic board, and I pulled the heat sink off the chip... to be greated with an AMD 486 chip with "Made for Microsoft Windows" and the Windows logo stamped on it. What... no other OS is supposed to use an intel compatible processor?!? I am sure anyone that bought this chip to use with any other OS probably paid an MS tax because of that stamp! Just for that, I think I might see if I can get my Intel build of Rhapsody to install on it. Ok, so it isn't 10 years or older, but at least you people can understand the pain. -c

24 years, 6 months

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Hardest to Find Classic Computers (Was: RE: Way OT: Just

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On December 16, Huw Davies wrote: > The problem with the Alphabook was that it's not exactly fast and > the battery life is short. They are also hard to find and expensive > should you find one. I suspect that a 1GHz laptop will run a VAX > emulation faster than the Alphabook with better battery life too. Yes but then you'd have the embarrassment of being seen carrying a PeeCee around. That's a hangin' offense around here! ;) -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf

24 years, 6 months

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[PDP8-Lovers] how to clean a PDP8/A, dishwasher?

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On December 15, Pete Turnbull wrote: > No normal detergent will attack ordinary plastics or epoxies. Some > industrial detergent powders include caustic ingedients, and (mainly for > that reason, and because they can harm skin) are banned from domestic sale > in the UK, and also, I beieve, in the USA. In general, any home-use > detergent safe to use on your skin, clothes, etc, is safe on PCBs and > electronics. Alconox Inc. makes a few different cleaning compounds specifically for PCBs and electronic components. -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf

24 years, 6 months

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Flashing Light Indicators un Simple Front Panels

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On December 15, Pete Turnbull wrote: > Actually, I think that's a good suggestion, if you can find someone with > the same ROMs. In my experience, most programmers actually do use the same > algorithm -- one of the common CRCs. At least, all three programmers I > regularly use do, and the checksums match the ones printed on SGI ROMs and > a few other ROMs I have that have printed checksums. Hmm..lucky. ;) My Data-I/O 2900, Heath 4801, and printed checksums on my SGI I2's ROMs don't match. -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf

24 years, 6 months

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Flashing Light Indicators un Simple Front Panels

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Dec 15, 14:29, Dave McGuire wrote: > What kind of ROMs does it use? Another possibility might be to find > someone with the same model of PR1ME (how rare are they?) and checksum > the ROMs & compare them...most PROM burners will generate checksums, > but now that I think of it, PROM burner manufacturers have yet to > standardize on a checksumming algorithm so it'd probably be useless > unless they're summed with the same make/model of burner. :-( Actually, I think that's a good suggestion, if you can find someone with the same ROMs. In my experience, most programmers actually do use the same algorithm -- one of the common CRCs. At least, all three programmers I regularly use do, and the checksums match the ones printed on SGI ROMs and a few other ROMs I have that have printed checksums. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

24 years, 6 months

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Flashing Light Indicators un Simple Front Panels

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Dec 15, 14:09, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > > On Dec 14, 16:16, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > > > > > In particular, do any of you have familiarity with > > > systems that flash the on or power light as an > > > indicattor, sopecifiecally, of a power supply > > > problem? > > > > The only thing I can think of that's *designed* to do something like that > > is an SGI Indy; if you power one up and it can't even run the the code in > > the PROM, it flashes the power light (which is a two-colour LED). The > > usual cause id that there's no (recognisable) RAM at all in it. Probably > > not relevant to a PR1ME. > > No, I'm afraid you may have hit it on the head, and it's been the > direction I've been leaning, that the microcode ROMs may have > fried, but that just blows my mind. Possible, of course, but in the case of an Indy, the processor and PSU are working, and it gets only as far as the "I think, therefore I am a processor; I wonder if I have any memory" test in the PROM, and then executes a loop which controls the LED in the PSU if there's no RAM. At least, that's what I believe; I've not seen a detailed description of the PROM startup. I suppose your problem may be something similar, in that the CPU is running but can't do anyting useful because either it's crippled or some other part of the system is disfuntional. Does the CPU control the power supply LED(s), like it does in an Indy? -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

24 years, 6 months

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[PDP8-Lovers] how to clean a PDP8/A, dishwasher?

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

From: Jeffrey S. Sharp <jss(a)subatomix.com> >I asked and was told not to clean the core, that whatever junk gets stuck >in there wou't hurt the core's operation. Maybe it's time for round 2 of >the discussion. > >What if something in that dust is conductive? I'd rise in clean water maybe Isopropanol(91% or better) by dipping in a pan with a large quanitiy. Agitate minimally, no brushing or high pressure air near the mat. dry with warm (NOT HOT) hairdryer. >What if something in that dust has wierd magnetic properties? >What if that dust interferes with the core's cooling? See above. >What if I slowly dipped the core board into a pan of IPA or distilled >water, then slowly lifted it out, and repeated until the core board was >clean? IPA may not be the best bet for the muck. Use a lage quanity so that you don't saturate the solution with the muck. Rinse again with fresh solution to further remove the muck. You might try water with a small (1%) amount of detergent too. Risnse water out with IPA and blow dry with hair dryer on warm, not hot. Remember IPA is flammable and to do a PDP-8 core I'd use about 2 quarts (2L for those on the otherside) for first rine and about the same for the second. So use care and DO IT OUTSIDE. Allison

24 years, 6 months

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[PDP8-Lovers] how to clean a PDP8/A, dishwasher?

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Dec 15, 10:34, Chad Fernandez wrote: > I've never seen core in real life...... how small are the wires? Depends on the core, but thinner than hair, usually. There's a picture of an H214 core board on EBay at the moment; you'll see 12 large and 8 small dark rectangles on it. http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1309747460 The larger rectangles measure approximately 5/8" x 2 1/4". Those rectangles are the core mat; it's an 8K x 16 bit core mat. Each of those 131072 ferrite cores has three wires going through it. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

24 years, 6 months

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[PDP8-Lovers] how to clean a PDP8/A, dishwasher?

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

From: Chad Fernandez <fernande(a)internet1.net> >I use the dishwasher to clean computers too, but what about core >memory? I've never handled it myself, but I understand it is quite >delicate.... any special handling needed? I did a pdp-8/f, washed everything save for the PS and the Core plane. The acutal core plane was fairly clean but everything else was a mess and needed a bath serious. Allison

24 years, 6 months

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[PDP8-Lovers] how to clean a PDP8/A, dishwasher?

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Dec 15, 12:20, Matthew Sell wrote: > I don't know enough about the effects of using certain chemicals on the > various plastics and expoxies used in the manufacture of the boards, so I > steer clear of using a detergent unless I know that it would be perfectly fine. No normal detergent will attack ordinary plastics or epoxies. Some industrial detergent powders include caustic ingedients, and (mainly for that reason, and because they can harm skin) are banned from domestic sale in the UK, and also, I beieve, in the USA. In general, any home-use detergent safe to use on your skin, clothes, etc, is safe on PCBs and electronics. I'd be wary of some organic solvents, including alcohols, however. Some attack plastics such as Perspex (Lucite), polystyrene, ABS, etc; some will attack some types of enamel insulation on wire; some affect PVC insulation, making it swell or become brittle. > My experience has been that with certain devices that spend entire lives > inside, that usually a rinse with hot water makes them look new. I've been > satisfied with just using hot water, and everything looks nearly new when > complete. Unfortunately that doesn't apply to computers that have been in places where they may accumulate sticky substances from the air (tobacco film, brewing residue, oily film + dust, etc). In that case, warm water and a moderate amount of detergent is the kindest thing you could use. Ever tried to clean an old TV set with plain water? -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

24 years, 6 months

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[PDP8-Lovers] how to clean a PDP8/A, dishwasher?

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

From: Mark Crispin <mrc(a)CAC.Washington.EDU> >I am appalled that anyone would seriously consider putting any electronic >equipment, much less antiques, in a dishwasher. You never seen how they were made then. >It may be alright to (gently!) vaccuum away dust and deteriorated foam >rubber, although a feather duster may be more appropriate. I would not Believe it or not vacuuming can create damaging ESD for sensitive boards like core drivers and even TTL! >risk anything else, and certainly not insert anything (including water or >alcohol) under the plexiglass shield protecting the core. Correct there. The core plane is fragile. >A damp cloth with perhaps a bit of soap to the exterior surfaces of the >case is probably all you really need, but be sure not to let any liquid >seep into the inerior. A lot of the PDP-8s have lived in industrial enviornments and offices where clean air is unheard of. Many really are filthy. Allison

24 years, 6 months

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how to clean a PDP8/A, dishwasher?

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

From: Gunther Schadow <gunther(a)aurora.regenstrief.org> >I have that itching to start up my new PDP8/A even without >disks attached. Have a programmers console, so that's enough >to enter a few programs. It's intriguing to see a machine Congrats! >But first I need to give this thing a good cleaning. A friend >has assured me that there's nothing better than the dishwasher, >with the exception of big capacitors and, what about magnetic >core memory? So, how should I clean the RAM cards? How the >DC power supply units? The PS do by hand and CORE planes never goes in the dishwasher. The core IO boards can be dishwashed. >If I put the other stuff in the dishwasher, I know there should >be no detergent and no heat dry. But what about the rinsing >aid, do I have to pump this out of the reservoir? No problem. I use minimal detergent as most of the dreg on the boards is water soluable. >I heard of another method using hand-washing first, then drying >and finally a bath in Isopropanol. Is that what I should do >with the core memory cards? Core planes are very fragile and usually covered enough to prevent much muck inside. the driver boards usually get nasty dirty. >Finally, finally, I noticed that the cards are all slightly >bent from being kept in a horizontal position. They are sagging >a little, like a hammock. Would that be a cause of concern >in the long run? Should I mount the chassis in an upright >position in the future? Not an issue, dont try to straighten. >PS: I am probably going to make one "portable" PDP-8, where >the console is mounted on the chassis and the rest of the >opening covered plus a handle on the top. That would be neat >for bringing into the classroom to teach fundamentals of >computer programming, wouldn't it? yes it would PDP-8 is still a good minimalist model to work from. Allison

24 years, 6 months

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[PDP8-Lovers] how to clean a PDP8/A, dishwasher?

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Dec 15, 9:27, Ben Franchuk wrote: > I also would consider the qaulity of the water. I would wash in > distilled > water. The last thing you want is clorine or other acids and junk from > the > water slower eating your PCB. For the time it takes to wash a PCB, nothing dissolved in normal water is going to matter. Make sure it's free of paticulate matter that might get stuck somwhere, don't use the raw undiluted waste from someone else's chemical process, but there's no need to go over the top. The chlorine added to tap water, for example, will do no harm. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

24 years, 6 months

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Flashing Light Indicators un Simple Front Panels

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On December 15, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > No, I'm afraid you may have hit it on the head, and it's been the > direction I've been leaning, that the microcode ROMs may have > fried, but that just blows my mind. Tonight, I'll set up the No, Doug...the microcode ROMs being fried should blow the PR1ME's mind, not yours. ;) (Sorry, I couldn't resist!) > PC that's got my ROM burner/reader, and read each one (if the > ROMs aren't too large a size for my Needham unit). I'm assuming > I'll see all 00s or all FFs (or maybe something like FEs) if > they're blown; been a long time since I've looked at popped > ROMs... What kind of ROMs does it use? Another possibility might be to find someone with the same model of PR1ME (how rare are they?) and checksum the ROMs & compare them...most PROM burners will generate checksums, but now that I think of it, PROM burner manufacturers have yet to standardize on a checksumming algorithm so it'd probably be useless unless they're summed with the same make/model of burner. :-( -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf

24 years, 6 months

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Flashing Light Indicators un Simple Front Panels

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> On Dec 14, 16:16, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > > > In particular, do any of you have familiarity with > > systems that flash the on or power light as an > > indicattor, sopecifiecally, of a power supply > > problem? > > The only thing I can think of that's *designed* to do something like that > is an SGI Indy; if you power one up and it can't even run the the code in > the PROM, it flashes the power light (which is a two-colour LED). The > usual cause id that there's no (recognisable) RAM at all in it. Probably > not relevant to a PR1ME. No, I'm afraid you may have hit it on the head, and it's been the direction I've been leaning, that the microcode ROMs may have fried, but that just blows my mind. Tonight, I'll set up the PC that's got my ROM burner/reader, and read each one (if the ROMs aren't too large a size for my Needham unit). I'm assuming I'll see all 00s or all FFs (or maybe something like FEs) if they're blown; been a long time since I've looked at popped ROMs... About the only other possibility is that the backplane got cooked, but it looks fine... -dq

24 years, 6 months

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[PDP8-Lovers] how to clean a PDP8/A, dishwasher?

by msell＠ontimesupport.com

Guys, This argument always comes up every few months on the video game collecting newsgroups that I'm a member of. Here we go.... How do you think the boards were cleaned by the manufacturer? Boardwashers!!!!! (big versions of dishwashers - usually with conveyors for constant operation) I've been employed by two different electronic test equipment manufacturers, and have consulted a bunch more regarding quality control and calibration of electronic test equipment. EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM USES WATER TO CLEAN THE BOARDS. No shit. Depending on the type of equipment that is being produced, some may use distilled water, others filtered water, some use "deionized" water. But it's still water. Hot water. I clean all of my computers, upright video games, and all of the boards >from my two 11/780's and one PDP-11/34A in the dishwasher. No damage yet, after several YEARS of doing this. I've put high-voltage power supplies, low voltage power supplies, floppy disk drives, CPU boards and everything else in the wash. What doesn't fit in the dishwasher gets blasted with 409 and hot water in the tub. Here's the secrets to doing this right: 1) Do not use any detergents. NONE. 2) Turn off the plate warming and drying cycles. The heating elements in the washer can distort or damage plastics. 3) Remove soon after cycle is complete. Do not let items sit overnight. Shake off water. 4) Stand up or hang to dry. 5) Let items dry inside the house for several days. I usually don't touch washed items for at least 3-4 days. 6) Don't plug the item in to power of any form until step #5 has completed. For delicate items, I use water from the sink at a low flow rate, and spray a mixture of 409 and water onto the item and allow it to soak for a few minutes before rinsing. I may use a soft paintbrush to clean stubborn dirt if necessary. Rinse and repeat. I know that a good percentage of you are skeptical. Every one of my games in my arcade collection had at least the CPU boardset in the dishwasher. Several others had every single board through the wash. All of them work, and did so before going into the dishwasher and immediately after drying. Others had the monitors powerwashed. I took an entire 11/780 out into my driveway and I powerwashed the chassis AND backplane! Don't take my word for it; take a board that you know is operational, of little value to you, test it out, and run it through the dishwasher using the steps outlined above. After a few days of drying, test it out. It'll work. And - I severely doubt that you get it any cleaner using any other method. Of course, don't wash the boards with your regular load of plates and pots..... : ) - Matt At 10:25 PM 12/14/2001 -0800, you wrote: >On Fri, 14 Dec 2001, Gunther Schadow wrote: > > But first I need to give this thing a good cleaning. > >Why? > > > A friend > > has assured me that there's nothing better than the dishwasher, > > with the exception of big capacitors and, what about magnetic > > core memory? > >I am appalled that anyone would seriously consider putting any electronic >equipment, much less antiques, in a dishwasher. > >It may be alright to (gently!) vaccuum away dust and deteriorated foam >rubber, although a feather duster may be more appropriate. I would not >risk anything else, and certainly not insert anything (including water or >alcohol) under the plexiglass shield protecting the core. > >A damp cloth with perhaps a bit of soap to the exterior surfaces of the >case is probably all you really need, but be sure not to let any liquid >seep into the inerior. > >-- Mark -- > >http://staff.washington.edu/mrc >Science does not emerge from voting, party politics, or public debate. Matthew Sell Programmer On Time Support, Inc. www.ontimesupport.com (281) 296-6066 Join the Metrology Software discussion group METLIST! http://www.ontimesupport.com/cgi-bin/mojo/mojo.cgi "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er...

24 years, 6 months

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Color Coding, A/C (Mains) Leads, USA ONLY, Redux

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> Two parallel blades is 120V 15A. One perpendicular to the other is > (usually!) 120V 20A, but it could be a 250V plug, too. The 120V 20A plug > can be adjusted to fit a 15A recep by the judicious(sp?) application of a > pair of pliers... No, I've never done such a dangerous thing! -_^ Just > remember, too close to the body of the plug and it'll shear off, too far out > and it won't insert fully into the plug. Sorry I wasn't clear- plug matches the outlet it goes into, no need to "re-engineer"... -dq

24 years, 6 months

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Hardest to Find Classic Computers

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> The Lilith & the Tektronix Magnolia. These I regret not > hanging on to. I have never seen another. I still have > a Lilith mouse. Did the Magnolia really Smalltalk-80 in reverse-video mode? The only ones I've seen were in photos, and one showed white text on black background in Smalltalk... -dq

24 years, 6 months

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how to clean a PDP8/A, dishwasher?

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Dec 14, 23:47, Gunther Schadow wrote: > But first I need to give this thing a good cleaning. A friend > has assured me that there's nothing better than the dishwasher, > with the exception of big capacitors and, what about magnetic > core memory? So, how should I clean the RAM cards? How the > DC power supply units? NOT the core! If you need to clean the core, my suggestion would be to immerse it in a washing-up basin with tepid water and a little soap or washing-up detergent, and *gently* swish it about a little. Then rinse twice, let it drain, and dry off gently. Don't use compressed air or solvents. > If I put the other stuff in the dishwasher, I know there should > be no detergent and no heat dry. But what about the rinsing > aid, do I have to pump this out of the reservoir? I don't think the detergent will do any harm, providing it's not too caustic, but avoid excessively hot water and high-temperature drying. Before you use the dishwasher, check for switches etc that might not take kindly to being immersed in soapy water, and either carefully remove them (taking careful note of where they go) and relays (don't wash relays). Also check for any labels that will be damaged or which might come off and end up where you don't want them. The rinse aid won't do any harm at all, in fact it wil help the water drain off (it's just a wetting agent). > I heard of another method using hand-washing first, then drying > and finally a bath in Isopropanol. Is that what I should do > with the core memory cards? Yes, see above, but omit the IPA. When I cleaned my PDP-8/E recently, I put all the boards except the core in the dishwasher, along with the front panel circuit board (I removed the LEDs first, since they were in bi-pin sockets), over-the-top connectors, and the two backplanes. I ran it on the usual cycle, with detergent and rinse aid. When I took the boards out, I blew off the remaining water (some tends to stay under ICs) with compressed air, and gave anything that might harbour water (DIP switches, panel switches) a good dose of iso-propyl alcohol, which I then drained/blew off. The IPA mixes with the remaining water and helps to remove it; the air removes the last traces of IPA. Finally I treated all the switches to a small dose of low-residue switch cleaner/lubricant. Similar treatment for the backplanes and connectors, except it's hard to get the last of the water/IPA out so I let them stand upright in front of a hair drier on a low heat setting for a couple of hours while I got on with other things. The PSU was too big for the dishwasher, and I wouldn't have wanted the transformer in there anyway. The 8/E has a linear supply with a big transformer; the 8/A has a switcher, I think. Anyway, I took off the side panel, removed the fans, relay, and fuse carriers (carefully noting how they were wired). I sprayed it with enzymatic cleaner (it was smelly) and detergent mixed with water in a spray bottle to dissolve the muck, left it to sit for a few minutes, and then rinsed it out with the garden hose (low pressure!) trying to avoid getting too much water into the transformer. Then I drained it out, and used most of a 500g aerosol of IPA to flush out the water, and compressed air to remove the residue, especially in the connectors. I let it stand in a warm dry room overnight before powering it up; I figured there might still be dampness in nooks and crannies in the transformer, and I didn't want to take chances. If you have small parts that need washed, then they can go in the cutlery basket in the dishwasher providing they're heavy enough not to jump out (metal brackets for example) or in a strong mesh bag in the dishwasher. For more delicate things you can tie them in a pillowcase and put them in the washing machine. I use the pillowcase/washing machine for keytops, cartridge cases, etc. Most of the foam in my 8/E was past redemption, so I stripped it off with a wallpaper stripping knife and replaced it with "high-density" upholstery foam about 3/8" thick -- not the really high density stuff that seems to be made of lumps of recylcled stuff, just the stuff used to pad seats. I cleaned off the old glue and stuck the new foam on with spray glue, after masking off the area to spray (like you would for spray paint). The foam under the backplanes was OK, so it went in the (clothes) washing machine on a hot wash. > Finally, finally, I noticed that the cards are all slightly > bent from being kept in a horizontal position. They are sagging > a little, like a hammock. Would that be a cause of concern > in the long run? Should I mount the chassis in an upright > position in the future? Not unless they're so badly warped that things might short between cards. Some of mine were warped when I got them, and don't seem to have suffered. > any other things I should know? Use a pen torch to look in the backplane slots for any rubbish the dishwasher might not remove (paperclips, cruddy foam, etc). Do make sure everything is dry before you power them up (or even reassemble them). Do make a note of where and how everything you remove goes back. I thought all the LEDs in my panel were the same way up; they weren't and it took me half an hour (without the circuit diagrams) to get them all the right way round. I find it helpful to put the screws from each section or panel or whatever into a separate ziplock bag or a dish; there are always some missing and it helps figure out what goes where, how many are needed, and what lengths they should be when you come to reassemble it all. Check the fans rotate freely; I always relubricate bronze bearing types with light machine oil. I have a few toggle-in programs I've collected or modified for first-time confidence testing, like the inchworm program and a couple of serial port testers (continuously write character to console; echo console, etc). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

24 years, 6 months

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Co-routines was Re: [PDP8-Lovers] if you hadn't already known this about the PDP-8

by mranalog＠attbi.com

"Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner" <spc(a)conman.org> wrote: > So what, exactly is a co-routine? I've heard the term before, but I'm not > entirely sure what they are, or how they would work. > -spc (I may have used them in assembly, but not knew the proper term ... ) The only time I remember using a coroutine was a time when I had no interrupts to use. The Sega Genesis has a 68000 with main program memory, plus a sound system controlled by a Z80 with it's own sound memory. Sound memory is loaded with a sound driver written in Z80 assembly. Now the sound system has a free running timer but no interrupts, so most games had a sound driver that played FM sounds or a sound driver that played digitized sound. My job was to take an FM sound driver and make it play digitized sound at the same time. So I wrote a routine that quickly checked if a digitized sound was playing and if it was, then check if it was time to stuff the next value of the digitized sound. The hard part was then to pepper the existing sound driver with calls to this coroutine such that the existing sound driver would not be slowed down and that the digitized sound would be played at a constant rate. It worked great. Oh! "what, exactly is a co-routine?" A coroutine is a procedure that executes from the point it last suspended execution up to the next instruction that suspends its execution. That is, it preserves state between invocations. Regards, --Doug ========================================= Doug Coward @ home in Poulsbo, WA Analog Computer Online Museum and History Center http://www.best.com/~dcoward/analog =========================================

24 years, 6 months

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[PDP8-Lovers] how to clean a PDP8/A, dishwasher?

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On December 15, Boatman on the River of Suck wrote: > > > I know that a good percentage of you are skeptical. Every one of my > > > games in my arcade collection had at least the CPU boardset in the > > > dishwasher. Several others had every single board through the wash. > > > All of them work, and did so before going into the dishwasher and > > > immediately after drying. Others had the monitors powerwashed. I took > > > an entire 11/780 out into my driveway and I powerwashed the chassis > > > AND backplane! > > > > I thought we weren't supposed to use the dishwasher on anything with > > capacitors. > > It's fine, as long as the capacitors aren't charged. ...and as long as they're not paper capacitors. Most paper capacitors are dipped in wax, but that won't always make a perfect waterproof seal. -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf

24 years, 6 months

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HP Piecemeal auction ?

by CLeyson＠aol.com

Anybody have a spare HP 9825 16-bit hybrid processor ? I have a machine that needs one. Best regards Chris Leyson

24 years, 6 months

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Hardest to Find Classic Computers

by mythtech＠Mac.com

>What are the hardest to find Classic Computers? I would have to go for the Lisa, and the Mac TV. I see both on ebay from time to time, but never at a price I personally can afford (but at affordable "collector" prices, usually around $200 for a Mac TV). I think the Mac TV gets special mention, because it is VERY hard to find a properly complete one, one that has the black keyboard and mouse, and even harder to find one with manuals and CDs (although a totally complete, just shy the packing materials one just sold on ebay for a little over $200 IIRC on the price). There were enough made and sold commercially that it should be out of your restrictions (I remember them being available new at the local Computer City when they came out). And I might also include a TAM (20th Anniversaty Mac), but I haven't searched enough to know for sure that they are hard to get (when I do look, if they are there, they usually sell for $1500, which puts them WAY out of my price range, so I don't look very often) >Also not intended as the thrust of the topic: > Systems you most of all want Unfortuantly, all three of my mentions fall into this catagory... but then, if they weren't hard for me to find, I would have one of each already, and then I wouldn't want them... so I guess by default, the hard to find are going to be the ones I most want. Anything outside Mac stuff, I dont pay enough attention to to know if it is hard to find (I can tell you a few things that AREN'T hard to find... 486's, 14" VGAs and inkjet printers out the ass in the local curbside pickups) -c

24 years, 6 months

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Hardest to Find Classic Computers (Was: RE: Way OT: Just say

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

They generally go for fairly big bucks. I sold two of them (HP 88780B drives) about a year ago for around $350/ea. They're all over...just not for free. -Dave On December 14, Christopher Smith wrote: > Right. I know they exist... just can't find them. :) > > Regards, > > Chris > > Christopher Smith, Perl Developer > Amdocs - Champaign, IL > > /usr/bin/perl -e ' > print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); > ' > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Eric Dittman [mailto:dittman@dittman.net] > > Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 1:37 PM > > To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org > > Subject: Re: Hardest to Find Classic Computers (Was: RE: Way OT: Just > > say > > > > > > > Do peripherals count too? If so, try finding a 9-track > > drive that doesn't > > > take up as much room as your fridge. Any EDSI hardware and > > controllers have > > > been very elusive to me as well. > > > > Actually, there are some table-top 9-track drives. There is > > a limit on how > > small a 9-track drive can be since you have to accommodate > > two large reels. > > > > In fact, next week I'm picking up a table-top 9-track SCSI > > drive for $75. > -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf

24 years, 6 months

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Is there no end

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On December 14, Pat Finnegan wrote: > I am pretty sure it runs on some IBM PPC proc... At least that's what I > gathered when IBM sent some guy to give what amounted to a sales pitch to > our LUG. Could be wrong, but I dont really think so. BTW I mean MODERN > eg. zSeries, not old. Umm, not as far as I'm aware, no. The S/390 is a mainframe architecture, not a large microprocessor-based system. While I have a lot of respect for PPC processors, they don't have quite *that* much horsepower. > Anyways, IBM did have their S/390 on a card that > they sold with their P/390 'developer's systems' in the early 90s. I'd > imagine those used a microprocessor... I have one in front of me. It's not a PPC. -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf

24 years, 6 months

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if you hadn't already known this about the PDP-8

by gunther＠aurora.regenstrief.org

Hi, I found this really interesting: The PDP-8 has no concept of a stack. It does have sub-routines though. Instead of pushing the instruction pointer onto a stack, it's being written at the location to which the call is directed (first address of the subroutine). Then a return is simply an indirect jump to that first address of the subroutine. This is hillarious! Wasn't the notion of a stack arond already before 1965? The coolest thing is that inspite of this "unique" way of handling subroutines, the PDP-8 had a timesharing system TSS-8. I suppose they could not share code segments then, so if three users were doing FOCAL, they would have 3 instances of the FOCAL code in memory (or swapping in and out to disk.) And all this at maximally 32 kB of memory! Amazing. I just wonder how the kernel calls were handled. The kernel was called "Monitor." That may be the revealing piece of it: perhaps the Monitor was a monitor, so only one thread could ever execute any of the monitor's code at the same time. That raises a last question: what was first, the TSS-8 kernel called "Monitor" or the operating system technical term "monitor"? Dijkstra's classic semaphore paper was back in 1968, and my "new" Introduction to Programming book is printed 1968 too. AFAIK the monitor construct is younger than the semaphore, right? So, could it be that the technical term "monitor" comes from taking the functioning of the TSS-8 kernel as a paradigma? fun stuff, isn't it? -Gunther PS: I think one could emulate something like a stack on the PDP-8 using the auto-increment registers in the PDP-8's zero page. Of course it would work without them, but it may make the one of the operations push or pop more efficient... -- Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D. gschadow(a)regenstrief.org Medical Information Scientist Regenstrief Institute for Health Care Adjunct Assistant Professor Indiana University School of Medicine tel:1(317)630-7960 http://aurora.regenstrief.org

24 years, 6 months

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if you hadn't already known this about the PDP-8

by msell＠ontimesupport.com

Serial terminals have worked with Linux for a few years now. Heck, in the 1.x days I was running serial terminals under Linux, and even using modems and VT100 emulators on PC's on the other end..... - Matt >I believe Linux will now run with a serial terminal. NetBSD certainly >does. > > > Thirdly, is there any good reason why you can't use a serial terminal > > linked to an RS232 port any more? In which case the PC wouldn't need a > > video card at all, unless it needs one to pass the POST (and you don't > > know how to patch the bios to get round it). > >This should work just fine. You just have to compile the kernel with the >necessary options. > >Peace... Sridhar Matthew Sell Programmer On Time Support, Inc. www.ontimesupport.com (281) 296-6066 Join the Metrology Software discussion group METLIST! http://www.ontimesupport.com/cgi-bin/mojo/mojo.cgi "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er...

24 years, 6 months

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Color Coding, A/C (Mains) Leads, USA ONLY, Redux

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> The blade that's keeping you from fitting it into a USA 15A > 120V outlet > should be the neutral. Sorry I wasn't clear, my custom-made A/C line has a box with two duplex outlets that match the line cord. And thanks to everyone who chimed in, it turns out my cord is wired correctly to the PSU. And the line tester from Radio Shack says the line is correct and not reversed and properly grounded. Gott be something else... -dq

24 years, 6 months

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Hardest to Find Classic Computers

by mythtech＠Mac.com

>Just because you cannot afford them does not mean they are hard to find. >The fact that you do see them on eBay from time to time actually means >that they are more common than you think. Lisa's are not at all "rare", >despite what the geographically challenged claim. However, it depends on >what model of Lisa we are talking about. Around here (NJ) Lisa's (any model) and Mac TV's are rare, at least as far as what I have found... and that goes beyond eBay (ebay isn't regional, local used shops, garage sales, junk yards, newspaper ads, flea markets... those are all regional). It is quite possible these things are readily available else where in the world, but here, they are not. If there is some magic land where these things go apleanty, PLEASE fill me in, as I would love to get them for shipping cost or just above... but I asked about that once before on this list when I was told shortages of lisa's were a regional thing... and no one told me where to get one, or offered me one... so I tend to think, there is no land of pleanty outside of collector mythos. As for affording them, that was just commented on because IIRC one of the criteria was that they should be collector affordable. I myself can't afford squat, but the prices I have seen them go for, when I have seen them (which happens to ONLY be online stores/auctions... ebay included) they are affordable for an average collector... I am just a very destitute collector so I have always had to pass on them. I am very sure that they are much more readily available than many other systems (as evidenced by the fact that they show up at all on ebay), but like I ended my first email with... outside of mac stuff, I really don't pay attention, so I can't say what is rare. That basically means, my rare statements were perspective of Mac's, and NOT of the entire computer field. -c

24 years, 6 months

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Color Coding, A/C (Mains) Leads, USA ONLY, Redux

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

Hello, This topic was rehashed not too long ago, but rather than read 6 weeks worth of thread on it, let me star it again. I have a PSU, the input leads (part of the EMI filter I think) are labeled L, G, and N. G is I am sure, the ground. Of N and L (beutral and low?), which goes to thewhite wire, and which goes to the black wire? The A/C cord is a 20amp type with the two blades at 90 degrees to each other as in "| -". Thanks, -doug q

24 years, 6 months

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Flashing Light Indicators un Simple Front Panels

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

Hello again, Many of you are into PDP-11, both the blinkenlights variety and the simpler dump front panels, as well as VAXen and such with console-based front panels. Do any of these machines, if they have a really bad problem that might preclude the use of the console, flash an LED to mean something? In particular, do any of you have familiarity with systems that flash the on or power light as an indicattor, sopecifiecally, of a power supply problem? Would anyone venture what a 2 Hz flash rate on the ON LED of a Prime might mean? Thanks again, -doug q

24 years, 6 months

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Hardest to Find Classic Computers

by Innfogra＠aol.com

The Lilith & the Tektronix Magnolia. These I regret not hanging on to. I have never seen another. I still have a Lilith mouse. Paxton

24 years, 6 months

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On Sequent Symmetry S81 and PC Jr.

by csmith＠amdocs.com

Since these two are probably the only not-yet-functional machines I haven't posted questions to this list about, I've decided to ask about them. Easy one first: Can anybody give me the pinout of the power-connector for the PC-Jr. I don't have a power cord. Failing that, has anyone got a spare? :) (If I understand properly, the power supply is inside, and the power running through the cord should be AC, right?) Next, the hard part: I have a Sequent Symmetry S81. It's in need of at least the following: CPU boards RAM boards Drives, but I can probably handle that... A version of DYNIX which will support it (likely on QIC-120) For those of you who don't know it, this is a 1987 model mini that used Intel CPUs in parallel. Up to 30 (IIRC) 386/16 cpus, on boards which contain sets of two could be used. Each CPU had a dedicated Weitek co-processor, too. I believe it was UMA/shared memory. I also believe that the peripheral bus was VME. I have quite a set of boards in that bus right now, whatever it is, and would be interested in any help I could get in cataloging them and figuring out what I've got. I believe that the system was board-for-board compatible with the S27, and the only difference was the enclosure. Speaking of which, I could also use help in determining whether I can hope to get this running on normal wall-power. The system is built-in to a rack, which has an inch-thick cord (no plug :/) coming out of it. It seems on the inside of the rack that the power is broken out into something more manageable, and, IIRC, 115 - 120 volts. (It's been a while since I've pulled it out and looked.) I would like to get this system working, so... Does anyone know where to find parts or system software? Is there anyone who could possibly help me ID some of the parts already in the system? I'll try to get all the serial numbers, etc, from the boards if there are any takers. What are my chances of getting this thing to run off of wall-power without blowing anything up? Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

24 years, 6 months

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Another odd-ball/almost classic computer...8 yr old...

by DAW＠yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu

Just found this in a box... Has anyone here ever heard of a Gateway 2000 Handbook computer? It's like a palmtop/laptop computer, 10"x6"x1.5"... using a Chips & Tech. 8680 "PC on a chip". It has the 2MB RAM upgrade, to bring it to a whopping 3MB! And would you look at that, 40MB HDD... With the null modem cable, it would make a great ultra-portable terminal... --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818

24 years, 6 months

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Cats around computers

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> I had a hard time finding beef tongue or brains in the U.S. These are > considered a delicacy in many other places. %-) In this part of the midwest, pork brains are a bit more common than beef brains... dad loved 'em, I thought they were cool to look at, but never tried 'em. I hope we don't drift into discussing that strangest beef organ meat of all... ;)

24 years, 6 months

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Cats around computers

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On December 14, Chad Fernandez wrote: > Dave, did you have to close your eyes during the "Chilled monkey brain" > scene in Indiana Jones :-) YES. -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL

24 years, 6 months

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MITS 2SIO serial chip?

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

From: Richard Erlacher <edick(a)idcomm.com> > >The 8250 was a fine chip for the application, though I wonder why they used the >DIP version. There were better choices available, but they didn't want to lose In 1981 there was only the DIP version as surface mount was not a widespread technology yet. >the serial port board business by putting two of them on the same card, and by >that time serial I/O chips tended to have between 2 and 8 ports on them. In 1981 they did exist, those with more than two ports didn't have second source and they werent cheap. The 8274 ( the 8088 bus version of the Zilog SIO) was about 4 times the cost of the 8250(in the fall of 1981) though it was a far better part and intel would have loved the business. What's funny is my Leading Edge Model D PC clone used 8251 and put all the video, floppy, printer and COM1 on the mother board. In my book the clones often {but, not always} improved a dumb design. Allison

24 years, 6 months

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if you hadn't already known this about the PDP-8

by DAW＠yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu

! From: Boatman on the River of Suck [mailto:vance@ikickass.org] ! ! ! On Fri, 14 Dec 2001, David Woyciesjes wrote: ! ! > Sridhar --- ! > I might be able to use your help soon... I have a Cardinal ! > Technologies PC10. It's a 386, with a 10" color (?) screen, ! > and it's built ! > just like a Mac SE! It's mfg in May '92, so it's almost ! > on-topic. Has anyone ! > seen one of these, or know of any docs for it? ! > I'm wondering if I should put DOS6.22/Win3.11, or ! > NetBSD on it. Of ! > course, I still have a Win95 CD around. Maybe I could ! > shoe-horn that on! ! ! I would stay away from Windows95, as it runs *really* *really* slow on ! 386's. Do you know how fast of a 386 and how much RAM? It ! would help in ! my telling you whether or not NetBSD will work well. Yeah, the Win95 comment was more of a wise-ass joke :) As for the details on the PC10, I'm gonna fire it up next week, and connect the Handbook to it, to back up the Handbook. It (the Handbook) has MS Interlink on it! Heh heh heh... --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818

24 years, 6 months

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Is there no end

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On December 14, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > > Back in those days, many people were skeptical about using a non-Intel > > processor when running Windows. > > > > There was a big marketing effort by the likes of Cyrix, AMD, and whoever > > made the "WinChip" to convince people that those processors would run > > Windows okay. > > Well, I suppose every chip must aspire to mediocrity. :-P Wait...woudn't that make it a "LoseChip"? ;) -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL

24 years, 6 months

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Is there no end

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On December 14, Russ Blakeman wrote: > It was put on there to basically state that it works well with MS Windows, > not only with MS Windows. Perhaps so, but that's not what it *says*. "Made for Microsoft Windows" implies much more than "Works with Microsoft Windows". I wouldn't be surprised if AMD got a substantial amount of money >from Microsoft to paste that sticker on those chips. -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL

24 years, 6 months

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if you hadn't already known this about the PDP-8

by DAW＠yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu

Sridhar --- I might be able to use your help soon... I have a Cardinal Technologies PC10. It's a 386, with a 10" color (?) screen, and it's built just like a Mac SE! It's mfg in May '92, so it's almost on-topic. Has anyone seen one of these, or know of any docs for it? I'm wondering if I should put DOS6.22/Win3.11, or NetBSD on it. Of course, I still have a Win95 CD around. Maybe I could shoe-horn that on! --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 ! -----Original Message----- ! From: Boatman on the River of Suck [mailto:vance@ikickass.org] ! Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 10:22 PM ! To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org ! Subject: Re: if you hadn't already known this about the PDP-8 ! ! ! On Thu, 13 Dec 2001, Jeffrey S. Sharp wrote: ! ! > On Thu, 13 Dec 2001, Tony Duell wrote: ! > ! > > Since when has linux needed a video display card at all, ! let alone one ! > > with 16M of RAM? ! > ! > I'm pretty good at making small distros of FreeBSD. Some ! people like me ! > have gotten in to run in 4MB. The least I have ever done ! is 8MB. And ! > it's not unbearably slow on a 25MHz 386 embedded card. I ! suspect Linux is ! > similar. ! ! I've gotten NetBSD running fairly well in 2 MB. ! ! Peace... Sridhar !

24 years, 6 months

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Way OT: Just say no to squirrels & Pascal question

by acme_ent＠bellsouth.net

> From: Dave McGuire <mcguire(a)neurotica.com> > On December 13, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > > > > Rodents *are* chewy... have you never had squirrel? > > > > > > NO. And I hope I NEVER get that hungry. > > > > Hey, it's not like I was playing Hannibal Lector to > > old Rocket J. himself... > > Yes, but still...NOT FOOD. ;) > > -Dave I'm with Dave. If I'm that hungry, I'll find out what the squirrels are eating (such as nuts), and eat the same thing! As I child I visited some of my hilljack relatives in the Appalachians and saw them eat these rodents. They especially enjoyed eating the brains. Blechhhh . . . rats with furry tails . . . recent research has also found evidence of a mad-cow-like disease which is carried in squirrel brains . .

24 years, 6 months

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Is there no end

by DAW＠yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu

! From: Chris [mailto:mythtech@Mac.com] ! ! ! Ugh... this takes the cake. ! ! I was pulling apart a 486 logic board, and I pulled the heat ! sink off the ! chip... to be greated with an AMD 486 chip with "Made for Microsoft ! Windows" and the Windows logo stamped on it. ! ! What... no other OS is supposed to use an intel compatible ! processor?!? I ! am sure anyone that bought this chip to use with any other OS ! probably ! paid an MS tax because of that stamp! ! ! Just for that, I think I might see if I can get my Intel build of ! Rhapsody to install on it. ! ! Ok, so it isn't 10 years or older, but at least you people ! can understand ! the pain. Chris --- I've seen quite a few of those around here at work. In fact, I have Win98 running on some still! Doesn't do too bad, considering they only have 32 MB RAM also... --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818

24 years, 6 months

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Way OT: Just say no to squirrels & Pascal question

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On December 13, Don Maslin wrote: > > If you'll eat brain, you'll probably eat pickled anus on a stick to. > > Where on your scale do you put horse meat? The French love it. Heh...I wasn't going to mention this, but now I have no choice. ;) I used to say that I could sum up the French culture in two sentences: "This is the most repulsive thing I've ever seen. I think I'll put it in my mouth!" For the humor-impaired: This is a joke. No offense to any French listmembers is intended. -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL

24 years, 6 months

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