- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On December 15, John Allain wrote: > I have little doubt about the appropriateness... of your response. > Care to say when its appropriate to own three S/390's? It's wholly inappropriate. He should give one to me. -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf

24 years, 6 months

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OS/2

by mythtech＠Mac.com

> Hey folks, would anyone here be able to get me disk images for OS/2 >release 3 or 4? I thought I had OS/2 Warp v3, but it turns out there are no disks in the box, just a manual. You can have that if you want it (cost of shipping, unless you have some 32mb 72pin SIMMs kicking around you want to trade... LOL) -c

24 years, 6 months

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OS/2

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

I've got a line on 'em already...that didn't take long. Thanks anyway though. -Dave On December 17, Phil Schilling wrote: > Dave, > Probably both, which would you prefer? > > Phil > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Dave McGuire > Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 1:57 PM > To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org > Subject: OS/2 > > > > Hey folks, would anyone here be able to get me disk images for OS/2 > release 3 or 4? > > Thanks, > -Dave > > -- > Dave McGuire > St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf > > -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf

24 years, 6 months

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OS/2

by pjschilling＠gcstech.net

Dave, Probably both, which would you prefer? Phil -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Dave McGuire Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 1:57 PM To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org Subject: OS/2 Hey folks, would anyone here be able to get me disk images for OS/2 release 3 or 4? Thanks, -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf

24 years, 6 months

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OS/2

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

Nope, needs to be 3 or 4...thanks anyway though. I think I may have found it. -Dave On December 17, Lawrence LeMay wrote: > OS/2 2.00.1 isnt any help I assume? > > -Lawrence LeMay > > > > > Hey folks, would anyone here be able to get me disk images for OS/2 > > release 3 or 4? > > > > Thanks, > > -Dave > > > > -- > > Dave McGuire > > St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf > > > -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf

24 years, 6 months

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Is there no end

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> > > > > Well, I suppose every chip must aspire to mediocrity. :-P > > > > > > > > Ok... I guess it took another Mac user to see my point. > > > > > > Now, honestly: by the same token, what's a PPC that doesn't run MacOS? >:-) > > > (As I type on my Apple Network Server. ;-) > > > > ... a computer I would want, such as an IBM RS/6000, AS/400, or S/390 (now > > zSeries). Mmmmm S/390 :). Now, that's BIG iron. > > S/390 does NOT run on microprocessors of any kind, let alone one as slow > as PPC. I thought Hercules could run S/390.... ;) -dq

24 years, 6 months

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DEC Cable?

by DAW＠yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu

Well, I do have a BNC male-male adapter, and some BNC cable. That should suffice as an extension. Safer than a soldering iron... ;-) Thanks for the link... --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 ! -----Original Message----- ! From: Michael Kukat [mailto:michael@unixiron.org] ! Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 2:52 PM ! To: David Woyciesjes ! Cc: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org (E-mail); NetBSD/Vax Mail List (E-mail) ! Subject: Re: DEC Cable? ! ! ! Hello, ! ! On Mon, 17 Dec 2001, David Woyciesjes wrote: ! > I've got two cables here, DEC p/n BCC17-06 and one with ! out a p/n, ! > but looks like a DEC cable. Any ideas who/what they're for? ! And can one of ! > them replace the mono video cable on my VAX Station 3100 (BC23K-03)? ! ! I don't know these cables, but as both are RGB cables, none ! of them can replace ! a mono cable. Also look at http://www.bsdfans.org/pinouts.php ! for the full ! pinout of those connectors. ! ! And additionally, DEC changed the pinout somewhen for the ! DECstations and DEC ! (Alpha) machines, maybe even VAXstation 4000 has a different ! pinout (do they ! have the 15pin connector? Don't know now). ! ! Best way would be to take a soldering iron and make the cable ! yourself. The ! other way would be a small bridge between the mono and the ! green pin to get ! the cable doing mono on the green wire. But this is a ! modification to your ! holy VAXstation, and you don't really want to do this :) ! ! And then, there is still the problem with the pinout ! difference between ! DECstations and VAXstaions. So, as your VAXstation has own ! keyboard/mouse ! connectors, a simple mono video cable would be the best. ! ! ...Michael ! ! -- ! visit http://www.bsdfans.org/ Home network powered by: ! NetBSD OpenBSD FreeBSD ! Solaris HP-UX IRIX AIX MUNIX Tru64 Ultrix VMS SINIX ! Dolphin_Unix OpenStep MacOS !

24 years, 6 months

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Troll got me (was Re: Is there no end)

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Glen Goodwin [mailto:acme_ent@bellsouth.net] > FYI, I think it's a "made up" holiday and just wanted to know > what your > thoughts were. Well, to drive this further off topic.... ;) All holidays are "made up." They are celebrations of this thing or that, lots of times an event. Nobody'd have thought of having a holiday before the thing happened, right? The difference with kwanzaa is that it's silly/stupid because it's (AFAIK) a celebration of racial identity which stems (IMO) from an insecurity of some type, where lots of other holidays are silly/stupid because they're celebrations of national identity (for instance) which stem (IMO) from an insecurity of some type :P Regards, Chris (who never understood the tendency of people to want to assign themselves to groups) Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

24 years, 6 months

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[PDP8-Lovers] Re: how to clean a PDP8/A, dishwasher?

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Dec 17, 6:08, Richard Erlacher wrote: > I'm not absolutely sure about such things, but, having had to sit through the > annual ESD classes year after year in order to maintain my cert's when I was in > aerospace, ISTR that the "old" TTL was ESD sensitive to a point, and I seem to > remember something about TTL having a threshold of 2KV for ESD sensitivity. > That suggests that while it's not as likely to go poof at the slightest ESD, you > can't "ZAP" it without harming it. Since the "ZAP" that you feel when reaching > for the doorknob is >50KV, typically, the 2KV would hardly be noticed. That sounds about right to me. The instructor on my ESD classes in the 80's probably read the same books and data sheets that yours did. You certainly wouldn't notice a few kV picked up by walking across a carpeted room if it had a few seconds to dissipate before you touched something that would discharge it instantly. I remember one school who had a lot of BBC Microcomupters in the mid-80's. All was well with them, until they had a building refurbishment, and the micros wer moved to a new room with carpet tiles. They had endless trouble after that, with machines resetting at odd times, misbehaving in unexpected ways, and so on. When one finally stopped working altogether and I was asked to look, I asked about the carpet. I suggested they mist it periodically with well-diluted carpet cleaner to reduce static, and the problems went away (I repaired the faulty machine -- it had a blown LS TTL chip, which may or may not have been coincidence). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

24 years, 6 months

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[PDP8-Lovers] Re: how to clean a PDP8/A, dishwasher?

by msell＠ontimesupport.com

You probably shouldn't use WD-40.... Better to use a good type of grease. They forgot to install grease fittings.... : ) On a side note, we had a guy from IS about ready to lubricate the bearings on a hard drive once. The situation started with a work order to repair a "squeaking" hard-drive. The real problem was that some joker turned on the "audible network activity" setting on an X-terminal, and it was "chirping" every time it attempted to access the network. Some guy came in on a different shift, and thinking he was a computer expert, quickly came to the conclusion that the hard drive needed replacement because the bearings were shot. Being the budget-minded people we were, we suggested to him that rather than replacing the expensive hard drive, we would ask the Information Services group to send a technician to repair, rather than replace, the hard drive. When the technician arrived we showed him the work order, and demonstrated the "chirping" noise. He agreed with the conclusion of the guy who write the work order that the hard drive really was at fault, and we convinced him that he should take it to the facility maintenance people to have them install a grease fitting on the hard drive and to "lube it up". As he started to take the case off of the terminal we pointed out the network activity setting. We got a good laugh out of it.... - Matt At 10:43 AM 12/17/2001 -0700, you wrote: >For laughs, take a look at >http://www.help-net.com/computer%20buddies/pc911/clean_your_hard_drive.htm Matthew Sell Programmer On Time Support, Inc. www.ontimesupport.com (281) 296-6066 Join the Metrology Software discussion group METLIST! http://www.ontimesupport.com/cgi-bin/mojo/mojo.cgi "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er...

24 years, 6 months

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[PDP8-Lovers] Re: how to clean a PDP8/A, dishwasher?

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On December 17, Johnny Billquist wrote: > > > > I am appalled that anyone would seriously consider putting any > > electronic > > > > equipment, much less antiques, in a dishwasher. > > > > > > I'll have to agree. > > > > As has been said before, what do you think manufacturers do at the end of a > > production line? > > They wash them yes. They *don't* put them in a dishwasher. There is a > hughe difference. I dunno, man...I've only come into contact with two commercial board washers in the past, and they were very much like dishwashers...right down to the fold-down front door and the spinning sprayer, except the spinning sprayers were at the top in these units. -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf

24 years, 6 months

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[PDP8-Lovers] Re: how to clean a PDP8/A, dishwasher?

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

From: Matthew Sell <msell(a)ontimesupport.com> >I'm offering the suggestion that people try using their dishwasher to give >the computer the bath it really needs. I put (with the exceptions mentioned >in previous posts) all of my boards and control panels through the wash. >Every one of them works after drying. After 10 years of using this method >commercially and in my hobbies, I haven't had a single failure. Same here and I've used dishwashers for over 20 years. Dirty boards get washed. Even if there are Dip switches or relays I wash them as often they dry ok or are easily replaced. Often the board that didn't work beforehand does after or it's far easier to see the problem. >P.S. - TTL logic *IS* static sensitive, just not nearly to the extent that >MOS is. Correct! Allison

24 years, 6 months

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[PDP8-Lovers] Re: how to clean a PDP8/A, dishwasher?

by DAW＠yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu

! > Like I said before, don't take my word for it. Take an old, ! > dirty board ! > that you know works, and run it through the dishwasher. Dot ! > use the plate ! > warmer or drying functions. At the end of the cycle, remove ! > it, shake it ! > off, and allow it to dry for several days (hang it up). Plug ! > it back in - ! > it'll work. ! ! I this has already been mentioned, but also don't put boards ! in that have ! any sort of battery fitted or removeable labels you want to keep stuck ! on.... ! ! -- ! adrian ! Course, you could always remove the labels first, put them on wax paper, then stick them back on after drying. If the adhesive won't hold anymore, clear packing tape, trimmed to just a little bigger than the label, should work. And protect it too, since the label is most likely only paper. --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818

24 years, 6 months

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Flashing Light Indicators un Simple Front Panels

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: pete(a)dunnington.u-net.com [mailto:pete@dunnington.u-net.com] > The only thing I can think of that's *designed* to do > something like that > is an SGI Indy; if you power one up and it can't even run the > the code in > the PROM, it flashes the power light (which is a two-colour LED). The > usual cause id that there's no (recognisable) RAM at all in > it. Probably > not relevant to a PR1ME. I've recently seen an indy do that because the RTC was improperly seated. Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

24 years, 6 months

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Should engineers be licensed (Was "Geeks")

by csmith＠amdocs.com

-----Original Message----- From: CLeyson(a)aol.com [mailto:CLeyson@aol.com] > I sometimes wonder just how many customers we've lost because of this. > Also, dont get me wrong, the same should be applied to hardware design. > We recently interviewed an electronics engineering graduate who didn't know > the difference between NPN and PNP transistors !! What do they teach kids > these days ?? My guess is nothing. (Really... that's part of the reason I'm not in a hurry to get my degree) It's not that the couldn't teach anything, or that the "kids" couldn't learn if they tried, though, I think. It's more that they're too stupid to know that there's more to learning than showing up every day and reciting meaningless (to you) data. The really sad part is that schools are accommodating this attitude by adjusting their programs such that you really needn't (in fact, it becomes difficult to...) learn anything. Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

24 years, 6 months

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Troll got me (was Re: Is there no end)

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 12/16/2001 5:57:45 PM Eastern Standard Time, acme_ent(a)bellsouth.net writes: > >> From: SUPRDAVE(a)aol.com > > >>Gee, a message from an AOL user with no HTML . . . imagine that . . . harrumph, will wonders ever fuckin cease? > > >> Kwanzaa is NOT a real holiday. > > >Okay, I'll bite: why isn't it? > > figure it out yourself, google is around for a reason

24 years, 6 months

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[PDP8-Lovers] Re: how to clean a PDP8/A, dishwasher?

by Robert_Feldman＠jdedwards.com

For laughs, take a look at http://www.help-net.com/computer%20buddies/pc911/clean_your_hard_drive.htm -----Original Message----- From: Matthew Sell [mailto:msell@ontimesupport.com] Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 11:16 AM To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org Subject: Re: [PDP8-Lovers] Re: how to clean a PDP8/A, dishwasher? <snip> Wrong. One manufacturer I worked for used a commercial Hobart dishwasher that was modified by an electronics distributer to include racks specifically made to handle printed circuit boards. This "boardwasher" was literally a dishwasher. Not a unique setup, either. You say there is a huge difference. What are the differences? Every boardwashing setup at every manufacturer I've consulted or been an employee of used a system that washes boards using higher water pressure and temperature than your common household dishwasher. If you are referring to a big difference, then I guess you are right. Your dishwasher is *MUCH* more gentle for the items being cleaned than the typical commercial boardwasher. <snip>

24 years, 6 months

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[PDP8-Lovers] Re: how to clean a PDP8/A, dishwasher?

by Adrian.Graham＠corporatemicrosystems.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Matthew Sell [mailto:msell@ontimesupport.com] > Sent: 17 December 2001 16:41 > To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: [PDP8-Lovers] Re: how to clean a PDP8/A, dishwasher? > > Like I said before, don't take my word for it. Take an old, > dirty board > that you know works, and run it through the dishwasher. Dot > use the plate > warmer or drying functions. At the end of the cycle, remove > it, shake it > off, and allow it to dry for several days (hang it up). Plug > it back in - > it'll work. I this has already been mentioned, but also don't put boards in that have any sort of battery fitted or removeable labels you want to keep stuck on.... -- adrian

24 years, 6 months

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Hardest to Find Classic Computers (Was: RE: Way OT: Just say no to squirrels & Pascal question)

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: no [mailto:oliv555@arrl.net] > digital Alphabook. Not exactly Rare, just hard-to-find Last I checked you could get them refurbished from Tadpole/RDI. Depending on availability, of course, but they get them occasionally. They still cost several thousand dollars, IIRC. Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

24 years, 6 months

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Should engineers be licensed (Was "Geeks")

by CLeyson＠aol.com

Ben Franchuk wrote: > "Should HTML/inline files be banded from EMAIL?" I ask. > As of late I have turned inline viewing off, with all the > stupid viruses around. Thanks to AOL I can't turn this feature off :-( Chris

24 years, 6 months

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[PDP8-Lovers] Re: how to clean a PDP8/A, dishwasher?

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Dec 16, 9:51, Johnny Billquist wrote: > On Fri, 14 Dec 2001, Mark Crispin wrote: > > I am appalled that anyone would seriously consider putting any electronic > > equipment, much less antiques, in a dishwasher. > > I'll have to agree. As has been said before, what do you think manufacturers do at the end of a production line? Yes, a certain amount of care is required, and certain things can't tolerate being soaked or being too hot or given too much mechanical agitation (stress). But how would you deal with a piece of equipment that was smoke damaged or had been left in the rain or had fallen in a river or had been infested with vermin or had a can of Coke spilled in it? I've had to deal with all of those and more over the last two decades, and washing is the only way. I don't advocate unneccessary cleaning, but sometimes it's required. > > It may be alright to (gently!) vaccuum away dust and deteriorated foam > > rubber, although a feather duster may be more appropriate. I would not > > risk anything else, and certainly not insert anything (including water or > > alcohol) under the plexiglass shield protecting the core. > > Vacuum cleaning (gently!) is about the only thing I'd recommend. Be careful about that. Allison's warning about ESD is quite real. Don't even think about a feather duster; at least, not if it's a synthetic one. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

24 years, 6 months

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Free MC68020 User's Manual

by Robert_Feldman＠jdedwards.com

I have a copy of the Motorola "MC68020 32-Bit Microprocessor User's Manual" (Second Edition, 1985) that was going to be tossed at work. Anyone want it? It's free for shipping costs (under 2 pounds) or pickup in Chicago Loop. Email me at robert_feldman(a)jdedwards.com if you are interested. Random drawing if more than one request by Wednesday AM. Bob

24 years, 6 months

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Old Wrapped inCider....

by rhudson＠cnonline.net

drats!!!! I was handling it so carfully I did not notice the bottom of the plastic bag had been carefully opened. :^( I guess it's no big deal now. Are any of these magazine of interest to someone who has not a full set? When I finish reading them they are yours for a "sase". nibble august 1987 v8n8 inCider december 1987 inCider april 1989 If you want them let me know. Multiple requests will be decided based on order in my mail browser, topmost takes all. ;^)

24 years, 6 months

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Another odd-ball/almost classic computer...8 yr old...

by DAW＠yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu

Michael --- Just curious, what would you do with it, use it for? --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 ! -----Original Message----- ! From: Michael Nadeau [mailto:menadeau@mediaone.net] ! Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 7:51 PM ! To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org ! Subject: Re: Another odd-ball/almost classic computer...8 yr old... ! ! ! I remember getting a press briefing on the Handbook before ! its release. ! Gateway did not manufacture the unit. I think it was made ! under contract in ! Taiwan. It was an interesting system that was not on the ! market for long. ! I'd grab one if the opportunity presented itself. ! ! --Mike ! ! Michael Nadeau ! Editorial Services ! 603-893-2379 ! ----- Original Message ----- ! From: "David Woyciesjes" <DAW(a)yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> ! To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> ! Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 5:10 PM ! Subject: Another odd-ball/almost classic computer...8 yr old... ! ! ! > Just found this in a box... Has anyone here ever heard of a Gateway ! > 2000 Handbook computer? It's like a palmtop/laptop computer, ! 10"x6"x1.5"... ! > using a Chips & Tech. 8680 "PC on a chip". It has the 2MB ! RAM upgrade, to ! > bring it to a whopping 3MB! ! > And would you look at that, 40MB HDD... With the null modem cable, ! > it would make a great ultra-portable terminal... ! > ! > --- David A Woyciesjes ! > --- C & IS Support Specialist ! > --- Yale University Press ! > --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu ! > --- (203) 432-0953 ! > --- ICQ # - 905818 ! > !

24 years, 6 months

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Databooks

by DAW＠yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu

Pete - I'm forwarding this to ClassicCmp.org mail list for you. Someone there might want them... From: CaptnZilog(a)aol.com [mailto:CaptnZilog@aol.com] Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 3:52 PM To: port-i386(a)netbsd.org Subject: OT: Databooks Way off topic here, but I figure that this list is probably looked at by most of the people out there. I have two xerox-paper boxes of duplicate Electronics Databooks I've weeded out of my three 7' high bookcases of databooks. Anybody out there in the vicinity of CT (probably not worth shipping them, its a lot of weight) interested in any databooks (to add to your collection?)? I can provide a list if you want. Some TI DSP databooks, and miscellaneous other stuff... Pete --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818

24 years, 6 months

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How did they string core?

by gehrich＠tampabay.rr.com

At 09:28 AM 12/17/01 -0500, you wrote: >Some manfacturers did it by hand, some by machine. IBM had core stringing > > machines during the S/360 era, for the huge stacks (about 1' by 4') used > > in some of the storage units. They also had cores hand strung in the far > > East, as the cheap labor was more economical than the robots. I was an industrial engineer assigned to the Core Line in Poughkeepsie for IBM. As the cores got small and smaller the operation became harder and harder. We used a large screen like device with slots in it. The cores were dropped onto the screen which was shaken so that the cores would fall into the proper holes. Then a button was pushed and the N/S and then the E/W wires pulled through the centers of the cores. The last part of the operation was the diagonal (bias) wires which were threaded though by hand. Very few individuals were capable of this last part of the operation. Almost all of the operators were women. Men just couldn't do the fine point work. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- gene(a)ehrich.com gehrich(a)tampabay.rr.com P.O. Box 3365 Spring Hill Florida 34611-3365 http://www.voicenet.com/~generic Computer & Video Game Garage Sale I accept PayPal To subscribe to automatic updates send a blank e-mail to: online-garage-sale-subscribe(a)yahoogroups.com

24 years, 6 months

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Troll got me (was Re: Is there no end)

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> FYI, I think it's a "made up" holiday and just wanted to know > what your thoughts were. The difference between "real" holidays and "made up" Holidays seems to be: if the Holiday was "made up" before you were born, then it's real (like Mother's Day, which was instituted by President Woodrow Wilson); if it was made up in your lifetime, then it's "not real, just made up." January 1 was "made up" into New Years Day by an act of fiat; New Years Day used to be April 1. I believe "Father's Day" was "made up" in the 50s... "President's Day" was "made up" by tightwad businessmen who wanted to combine two Holidays into one. "Washington's Birthday" was made-up into a Holiday by people who wanted to make a big deal out of Washington's Birthday; ditto Lincoln. I hope the pattern is clear... Kwanzaa is as valid a Holiday as any. Regards, -dq

24 years, 6 months

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Way OT: Just say no to squirrels & Pascal question

by Robert_Feldman＠jdedwards.com

Last time I had horse meat was with a couple of my professors at the Faculty Club ar Harvard. It was a regular on the menu there. Bob -----Original Message----- From: Don Maslin [mailto:donm@cts.com] Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 12:51 AM To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org Subject: RE: Way OT: Just say no to squirrels & Pascal question <snip> Where on your scale do you put horse meat? The French love it. - don

24 years, 6 months

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MITS 2SIO serial chip?

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

From: Richard Erlacher <edick(a)idcomm.com> >would have worked out. I think it might have given the Z80 and edge. Coming up >with a fair and general test might be difficult. I'd liken 6502 VS z80 as one of those depends on what you like things. Both have stood the test of time far better than many others. >The Z80 itself wasn't a bad CPU, but the peripheral set they built for it, with >its compromises in favor of the mode-2 interrupts meant that you couldn't use >wait-states on I/O cycles or on device chip selects to adjust the CPU to the I agree, most designers did too. Look at most Z80 designs out there and it was Z80 with NON-Zilog peripherals. Mode 2 with a little external glue to use with non zilog was a very potent config. >slower peripherals because it had to be looking over the CPU's shoulder to catch >the interrupt acknowledge and the RETI instruction. I've recently worked this >out by switching the clock rate during I/O and during a pending or current >interrupt, but it's still a PAIN! What's more, it seems to require more than >just a PAL. Handshake logic from a 4-bit wide FIFO (16 pins) seems to be the >tool for keeping track of interrupts and their dismissal. :) Me, I dont use slow Zilog peripherals. The last time I used Zilog IO it was the 5330 SCC that ran comfortably at 10mhz with it's own DMA. A TTL implementation of the mode 2 interrupts made for a nice system as it could run fast, though I never bothered with RETI, as that not required and adds much to the logic load. Allison

24 years, 6 months

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How did they string core?

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> > It was done by hand I think. Mexico comes to mind. > > Some manfacturers did it by hand, some by machine. IBM had core stringing > machines during the S/360 era, for the huge stacks (about 1' by 4') used > in some of the storage units. They also had cores hand strung in the far > East, as the cheap labor was more economical than the robots. The far east manufacture of core lead to a long-running joke in the old mainframe days... the instance of it I will describe was only one of many... Anyway, when we'd boot the COPE (Harris) 1200 Remote Job Entry Station (a PDP-8 clone), there would be a message that would flash by on the console *very quickly*: HELP! HELP! I'm being held hostage in a Hong Kong Core House! Read this thinking "Mike Hunt" and "Amanda Huggenkiss" if you don't (by some chance) get it... -dq

24 years, 6 months

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Is there no end

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> Matter of fact AMD was subcontracted at one point to MAKE processors for > Intel, when demands were up and they couldn't meet market requirements - and > many of the AMD made Intel branded chips are better than many of the Intel > ones. I don't remember if it was the 386 era or 486 though. iAPX286 era... -dq

24 years, 6 months

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Hardest to Find Classic Computers

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

Not likely! Sphere back then was the sloppy introduction and viewed as a grab the money and run, ship nothing operation. I'd say it was one of the first in the Vaproware realm. Many that ordered got skunked as Sphere hit with a splash and really did disappear pretty fast. They were the bad guys right up until the World Power Scam, thats another story. Allison -----Original Message----- From: Michael Nadeau <menadeau(a)mediaone.net> To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> Date: Monday, December 17, 2001 7:52 AM Subject: Re: Hardest to Find Classic Computers >Stan Veit's History of the Personal Computer has a detailed account of the >Sphere's design flaws and other issues, including kits being sent out >incomplete. Veit was a retailer who sold the Sphere when new. Veit stopped >selling the Sphere and admits that the company might have fixed some of the >problems after that. > >Do you remember the issue in which the review that the former owner refers >to appeared? The earliest Sphere coverage in BYTE is positive, almost >fawning. > >Maybe if the Sphere had been on the cover of Popular Electronics instead of >the Altair people would have been more forgiving of its flaws. > >--Mike > >Michael Nadeau >Editorial Services >603-893-2379 >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Loboyko Steve" <sloboyko(a)yahoo.com> >To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> >Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2001 9:22 PM >Subject: Re: Hardest to Find Classic Computers > > >> I stumbled upon a link some time ago belonging to a >> very bitter former owner of Sphere. The gist of his >> article was that Byte Magazine destroyed Sphere with a >> very bad review, and, that most computers of that era >> took some hacking to work anyway (example: the "clock" >> - and I use the term clock charitably - of the >> original Altair 8800). >> >> --- William Donzelli <aw288(a)osfn.org> wrote: >> > > Ah yeah. Good pick. That is definitely a rare >> > beast. I've only ever >> > > known one person who had one (I forgot his name, >> > he used to be on the list >> > > a few years ago). He sold it off to someone else >> > and then got out of >> > > collecting computers. >> > >> > Was that me? I have/had three, but they are promised >> > to go out West. One of >> > those deals that seems to be taking a very long >> > time, mostly due to me >> > trying to unearth it all and boxing the stuff up. >> > >> > Anyway, Sphere aparently was one of the early bad >> > guys. The computers they >> > sold (many as kits, I think) basically did not work. >> > Unlike Altair, Sphere >> > was trying to break into the business sector, so >> > there really was not much >> > of an excuse for the crapiness. They all needed a >> > huge number of hacks to >> > get them to function (my favorite is a a few-mH coil >> > made of telephone >> > wire kludged onto one of the oscillators, in order >> > to keep the thing >> > going. Basically, wrap some wire around a pencil, >> > and tack solder it into >> > place, and adjust accordingly). >> > >> > William Donzelli >> > aw288(a)osfn.org >> >> >> __________________________________________________ >> Do You Yahoo!? >> Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of >> your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com >> or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com >> > >

24 years, 6 months

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Flashing Light Indicators un Simple Front Panels

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> Actually, I think that's a good suggestion, if you can find someone with > the same ROMs. In my experience, most programmers actually do use the same > algorithm -- one of the common CRCs. At least, all three programmers I > regularly use do, and the checksums match the ones printed on SGI ROMs and > a few other ROMs I have that have printed checksums. Well, they wouldn't compare exactly- the microcode ROM sets are serialized... But when I disconnecte the cabinet airflow sensor, I get an error message displayed that's not in the VCP's Z-80 boot ROM, but is only in the microcode ROMs. Now, whether the Z-80 is retrieving and displaying that message, or the microcode is getting loaded and the Prime CPU is issuing the message, who can tell? -dq

24 years, 6 months

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Flashing Light Indicators un Simple Front Panels

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> Possible, of course, but in the case of an Indy, the processor and PSU are > working, and it gets only as far as the "I think, therefore I am a > processor; I wonder if I have any memory" test in the PROM, and then > executes a loop which controls the LED in the PSU if there's no RAM. At > least, that's what I believe; I've not seen a detailed description of the > PROM startup. I suppose your problem may be something similar, in that the > CPU is running but can't do anyting useful because either it's crippled or > some other part of the system is disfuntional. Does the CPU control the > power supply LED(s), like it does in an Indy? Yeah, pretty sure it does... Interestingly, I remove dthe two 4MB boards last night- no difference in bahavior. However, there are message strings in the ROMs dealing with RAM problems... -dq

24 years, 6 months

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[PDP8-Lovers] Re: how to clean a PDP8/A, dishwasher?

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

From: Johnny Billquist <bqt(a)update.uu.se> >> As has been said before, what do you think manufacturers do at the end of a >> production line? > >They wash them yes. They *don't* put them in a dishwasher. There is a >hughe difference. Many did as it was cheaper than the commercial version. >> Be careful about that. Allison's warning about ESD is quite real. Don't >> even think about a feather duster; at least, not if it's a synthetic one. > >ESD should never be ignored, but in the case of computer from the 60s and >70s, ESD is really not an issue. We don't have CMOS, we have old style MSI >TTL here... It is not ESD sensitive. You can literally zap those >circuits, and they will work just fine. Sorry, not so. DEC did a study in the logistics flow to see why DOA boards were a problem. The reason was ESD even on older PDP-8 and PDP-11 modules. The test and solution was ESD procedures or all modules and the fail rate went down significantly. Seems for TTL while ESD generally didn't kill it it can and did damage the passivation or input protection leading to longer term failures that were chalked up to infant mortality. Characateristics that were often seen degraded were input thresholds, input sink currents, output leakage for open collector and tristate devices. With the rarity and parts availability of older machines a bit of care is warrented if only to reduce troubleshooting time and 90 day failures. Allison

24 years, 6 months

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Flashing Light Indicators un Simple Front Panels

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> > PC that's got my ROM burner/reader, and read each one (if the > > ROMs aren't too large a size for my Needham unit). I'm assuming > > I'll see all 00s or all FFs (or maybe something like FEs) if > > they're blown; been a long time since I've looked at popped > > ROMs... > > What kind of ROMs does it use? Another possibility might be to find > someone with the same model of PR1ME (how rare are they?) and checksum > the ROMs & compare them...most PROM burners will generate checksums, > but now that I think of it, PROM burner manufacturers have yet to > standardize on a checksumming algorithm so it'd probably be useless > unless they're summed with the same make/model of burner. :-( My ROMs are fine; they read OK and I can provoke an error condition that results in a message to the console, and said message string resides in one and only one place- the microcode ROMs. -dq

24 years, 6 months

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Flashing Light Indicators un Simple Front Panels

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> No, I'm afraid you may have hit it on the head, and it's been the > direction I've been leaning, that the microcode ROMs may have > fried, but that just blows my mind. Tonight, I'll set up the > PC that's got my ROM burner/reader, and read each one (if the > ROMs aren't too large a size for my Needham unit). I'm assuming > I'll see all 00s or all FFs (or maybe something like FEs) if > they're blown; been a long time since I've looked at popped > ROMs... Ok, my microcode ROMs are fine, via direct observation (dumped them to disk then ran them through my LOW7 filter to strip the mark parity bit from the Prime ASCII. I also verified the ROMs are OK by managing to provoke the system to issue an error message that resides *only* in those ROMs. > About the only other possibility is that the backplane got > cooked, but it looks fine... There are still some possibilities other than this, the Primes appear to have been way-overengineered w/r/t making sure the power is OK. Thanks for all the suggestions, folks... -dq

24 years, 6 months

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[PDP8-Lovers] how to clean a PDP8/A, dishwasher?

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

Hi, I do cookies. It was something I did years ago{30+} to understand all that stuff. Allison -----Original Message----- From: John Allain <allain(a)panix.com> To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> Date: Sunday, December 16, 2001 11:33 PM Subject: Re: [PDP8-Lovers] how to clean a PDP8/A, dishwasher? >> {everything about cores} -- Allison > >Thank-You very much for this. What's your consulting rate? > >> thats about it. > >No doubt. > >John A. > > >

24 years, 6 months

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"Geeks" and licensing

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> Jim Arnott wrote: > > > > And what's the difference between an engineering project and Christmas? > > > > None. You do all the work and the fat guy in the suit gets all the credit. > > > > (did I read that here?) > > > > Jim > > And pay too! Well, The Jolly Old Elf has to deal with some less-than-pleasant happening.... the local radio stations have a Christmas song in rotation titled "I Farted on Santa's Lap"... we should be so lucky that the fat cats in suits would have one land on them... -dq

24 years, 6 months

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"Geeks" and licensing

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> In practice the solution is to accept the fact that specs, no matter > how much they are labored over, are for most efforts soft, and > then describe mechanism to deal with uncertainty as part of the > development process. Rapid prototype, stepwise refinement, > the understanding that one cannot test their way to correctness and > a willingness to throw at least one implementation completely > away, coupled with small, agile teams that work with an active > user community empirically produce more correct results in less > time that alternative techniques. This all sounds very familiar... > Not like any of this is new. Brooks described this eons ago > in _The Mythical Man Month_... Ah, now I know why... insert <EWOK_WORSHIP_SOUND_EMOTICON> here. I can't tell you how many managers I've wanted to strangle using the prototype code they demanded I push into production... -dq

24 years, 6 months

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Should engineers be licensed (Was "Geeks")

by acme_ent＠bellsouth.net

> From: Ben Franchuk <bfranchuk(a)jetnet.ab.ca> > "Should HTML/inline files be banded from EMAIL?" I ask. > As of late I have turned inline viewing off, with all the > stupid viruses around. My vote: ban 'em. Glen 0/0

24 years, 6 months

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Troll got me (was Re: Is there no end)

by acme_ent＠bellsouth.net

> From: SUPRDAVE(a)aol.com > >>Gee, a message from an AOL user with no HTML . . . imagine that . . . > harrumph, will wonders ever fuckin cease? Well, gee, no offense, it's just that html messages are a PITA to read with my reader, and most lists and newsgroups frown on HTML posts. > >> Kwanzaa is NOT a real holiday. > > >Okay, I'll bite: why isn't it? > > figure it out yourself, google is around for a reason Google certainly is here for a reason, and I can do a search anytime I like. My reason for asking is that you had stated an opinion, and I was curious to find out more about your stated opinion. Based on the hostility of your reply, I'll assume I was mistaken in asking. Sheesh, man, what are you so pissed off about? This is a friendly list. If you are so afraid of expressing your opinions, may I respectfully suggest that you confine them to alt.flame.niggers, where you will find a lot of other cowards to associate with. FYI, I think it's a "made up" holiday and just wanted to know what your thoughts were. Glen 0/0

24 years, 6 months

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Should engineers be licensed (Was "Geeks")

by mythtech＠Mac.com

>does it have a spell-checker? ROFL... well, I assume it does... and so does the email client I use... I just never use the spell checker... sorry, dyslexia has completely destroyed my ability to spell a damn thing, and I (as well as most everyone I write to) have accepted this fact, so I just don't use spell check as often as I really should. Heck... consider yourself lucky, I only made 3 errors in the last email (Strictly and default x2) But just for you... I spel chekt this emial :-) -chris <http://www.mythtech.net>

24 years, 6 months

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[PDP8-Lovers] how to clean a PDP8/A, dishwasher?

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

It takes quite a bit to read one bit (the same amount to read all the bits on one sense line). You need to in order: Select the specific word (or bit) and drive it with the X and Y lines, each will be 50% plus a tiny bit extra current needed to switch a bit. And yes that is a regulated current or wire melting may occur! Typically it's a pulse of several hundred milliamps. Then at the right time after the select pulse is applied you will see a big or smaller pulse on the sense line. the difference between a 1 or 0(zero) is the timing and the height of that pulse. That was the nasty item as both timing of the XY select pulse and the time to the read window are current, temperature and specific to the cores used. The resulting signal is quite small and is measured in tens of millivolts for a core that switched and maybe a millivolt for one that did not. Yes, the sense line does have a lot of noise! To do that again or write a 1/0 you need to reverse or leave the XYselect polarity. The inhibit line (for a 4 wire core mat ) can be the sense line for write (three wire mat). To write the opposite data you select the core via XY with enough current to flip the core, to not write that value you apply enough current of the reversed polarity to the inhibit line to reduce the field(from the XY selects) in the selected core to less than the half select value. The basic operation of reading implicity sets all cores in the word line to the same state. To write (a word) along a word line you reverse the currents and also apply inhibit current on a bit by bit basis. The end result is some cores in the word flip (reverse the magnetic field) and those inhibited do not. Now... if you want simpler try this... Wind about 20 turns of wire on a nail (iron, or better yet steel). Wind another 20 turns. We use a lot of wire to get a BIG signal. Now if you hook a simple 1-3V DC meter to one winding and then hook the other winding to say a 1.5V battery you should see the meter pulse (basic transformer action). If you interupt the connection (off on off) you will see another pulse of differing polarity (needle will go the other way for a moment). Do that a few times to note the reaction and then reverse the battery and repeat. When you do that you will not the meter action indicates a bigger pulse the first time and back to like before if you do it again. Now the majik of core. When you magnitize something like that the nail/washer/core takes a magnetic polarity and holds it. If you reverse that magnetizing field you not only get the field but also the change in magnetic polarity. That change significantly greater. The other peice of majik is that while you didn't measure it in that simple rig the current required to magnetize the nail in the opposite direction is greater than if the magnetic field in the in the nail was random(zero). This is the characteristic called hysteresis, IE: to change a field takes more than the amount needed to maintain or initially estabilish it. I might have fluffed the grammer and spelling in my hurry to write this but, thats about it. Allison -----Original Message----- From: John Allain <allain(a)panix.com> To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> Date: Sunday, December 16, 2001 2:02 PM Subject: Re: [PDP8-Lovers] how to clean a PDP8/A, dishwasher? >> No need to trace, they are quite regular, you can ohm them. You still >> need core drivers, sense amps and a dozens of diodes for current >> steering. > >We were thinking what could a person do to see the output from >just one core bit, not too much more than that... and then work up >from there. > >John A. >

24 years, 6 months

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Ampro Little Board questions...

by acme_ent＠bellsouth.net

> From: Richard Erlacher <edick(a)idcomm.com> > A PC floppy cable certainly wouldn't work with the Little Boards I have, since > they use the standard floppy disk cable, which has no twists or cuts. Take a "modern" PC dual-fdd cable and cut off the end which has the twist in it. Glen 0/0

24 years, 6 months

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MITS 2SIO serial chip?

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

From: Richard Erlacher <edick(a)idcomm.com> >the "vintage-PC" chipsets were 5 MHz parts, I do believe. That still wasn't >rocket-fast, but it was adequate for the 4.77 MHz i8088. Yes, and NEC and INTEL were selling 8mhz parts before then. The "PC" was slow by contemporary standards. I'd have likend it to building a 2mhz z80 system in 1981, equally poor thing to do. Allison

24 years, 6 months

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Should engineers be licensed (Was "Geeks")

by CLeyson＠aol.com

>> From: CLeyson(a)aol.com >> Thanks to AOL I can't turn this feature off :-( > Yes, you can! I have posted numerous messages to this list (and others) > from an AOL account in the past and never sent anything but plain text. I must have missed your posts on the subject. This geek for one would like to know. Chris Leyson

24 years, 6 months

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[Fwd: Re: Shall I open it, or does someone want it....]

by rhudson＠cnonline.net

Ok! Ok! I goofed - it's 1987, not 1967... There is one small hole in the plastic (1/2" round tear) There is an Epyx Catalog included as a supplement. (of course all the blow in cards are inside there too) Keith Johnson wrote: >> I have December 1967 inCider, > > > That *would* be an interesting read. Maybe it has a spread on the Univac? > > :P > > Keifer

24 years, 6 months

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Shall I open it, or does someone want it....

by rhudson＠cnonline.net

Ok! Ok! I goofed - it's 1987, not 1967... There is one small hole in the plastic (1/2" round tear) There is an Epyx Catalog included as a supplement. (of course all the blow in cards are inside there too) Keith Johnson wrote: >> I have December 1967 inCider, > > > That *would* be an interesting read. Maybe it has a spread on the Univac? > > :P > > Keifer

24 years, 6 months

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Should engineers be licensed (Was "Geeks")

by mythtech＠Mac.com

>> Thanks to AOL I can't turn this feature off :-( > >Yes, you can! I have posted numerous messages to this list (and others) >from an AOL account in the past and never sent anything but plain text. The latest version of the AOL client for windows no longer offers a way to turn of HTML email. HOWEVER, as long as you use STRICKTLY the defualt AOL email text settings, and NEVER do any kind of formatting, then AOL will still send plain text and not an inline HTML message. If you have changed the default settings, you can reset them. Somewhere in the AOL prefs is a button to reset them to defualt values. -chris <http://www.mythtech.net>

24 years, 6 months

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