- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by DAW＠yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu

! honky has been around for a long time - my dad was a Chicago ! cop since '55 ! and even when I was little (4 or 5) I've heard him telling ! "war stories" of ! encounters with the people on his beat where they referred to ! white folks as ! "honkies". Interesting. But I'm still curious as to how it got started... ! "hood" is a newer term, but I remember hearing ofay and otay ! on episodes of ! the Little Rascals, from back in the 30's... ! ! "cracker" is a southern version of "honky", never heard it ! until I went to ! texas for basic training. ! ! How in the hell did this list get into racial slang anyway? Well, somehow we got to talking about Kwanzaa.... --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818

24 years, 6 months

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FDCs (was: MITS 2SIO serial chip?

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

From: Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) <cisin(a)xenosoft.com> >There ARE many things that the WD will do that the NEC won't, including >writing much sooner after the index pulse, IGNORING certain fields in the 765A writes or read sonner than base 765 and the 37c65 even shorter. It doesnt ignore fields in a multisector read/write however if the sectors are written with a interleave it will also keep things in numerical order. Add to that a full cylinder read does not bring all the non data crap that formatted media requires to marks all the data spaces. The real beauty of that is if you have real DMA you can fire it up and read a whole cylinder and all your buffer has is neatly ordered data if the read was successful. That latter feature is nice if your doing a caching scheme. >Allison could probably gives us a more comprehensive and authoritative >list. Yes I can. Allison

24 years, 6 months

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New Finds

by healyzh＠aracnet.com

> Today I found the following: > > 1) IBM PS/2 P70 Portable with Xenix386 loaded. Does anyone know > how to bypass the root password so I can log in? Is it Xenix or AIX? I know IBM had a version of AIX that ran on these. Or was it just that funky Microkernel OS/2 thing running on one of these with AIX running at the same time? I know I saw that at a trade show once in DC, that was cool! Zane

24 years, 6 months

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Kwanzaa... [was: Troll got me (was: Is there no end)]

by DAW＠yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu

! ... whitey's holiday, and crackers are the enemy (their ! terms, not mine... I get "whitey"... I get "white bread"... but ! cracker?!? I would ask when visiting my inlaws... but I would ! just get my ass kicked, or worse, shot). Chris - Now, I'm a honkey (now what's the origin of that?) just like you... (like you couldn't tell by the name! :-) I think the term "cracker" is because, ISTR, crackers and bread made basically the same, except crackers don't have any yeast. Both light colored... ! As to the REAL reason for Kwanzaa, I have no idea, but I do ! know, around here it is entirely a racial thing, and the ! only people that really seem to take it seriously are the ! inner city high crime area Afican-Americans... which ! unfortuantly gives the whole thing a bad notion up here. Its ! a shame really, as I am sure there was a real reason for it, ! but like many other things, it has been badly perverted by a ! very very select group of people who decided to use it for ! their own agenda. What's that cliche saying? "One bad apple to spoil..." --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818

24 years, 6 months

3
2
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MITS 2SIO serial chip?

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

From: Ben Franchuk <bfranchuk(a)jetnet.ab.ca> >> that will do 125ns easily. Or you could easily find a d765 >> off an old board or NOS from JDR. >Do you know of a WD37C65 data sheet on the web? Check SMC for it. >> parts and the requisite connections. Of the latter, the fewer the >> better for both buildability and reliability. >Hmm what ever happened to sockets and repairable stuff. I hate sockets and try to avoid them, I've had equipment that didn't use the machined pin sockets and most all had to be rebuilt sans sockets at one point or another. > >> package = $1.35. So instead of Xilinx's $4.40 OTP chip we use a 8 pin PIC >> and the serial EEPROM for a total of $2.29 and get re-programmability... > >A good solution but this is a one-shot project so price is not a major >problem A lousy one if you have a raft of TTL and few FPGAs. ;) I have a few of the Lattice and Xilinx tools, older ones and the synario stuff too. I just dont get all that excited about it. I've designed a cpu and built it years ago, it out of my system and not worth repeating. Any cpu I'd do would need software and that means it would likely be a copy of something... likely something I have. Allison

24 years, 6 months

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Fw: Old Atari ?

by curt＠atari-history.com

This gentleman has Atari & Commodore systems in Iowa that are available, someone please give them a good home and not make his equipment into epay.com fodder.... Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: <brodtm(a)msnotes.wustl.edu> To: <curt(a)atari-history.com> Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 11:44 AM Subject: Old Atari ? > Curt, > > I have tried searching the web but with no luck. My mother has my old > Atari800 and Comodore systems. They are currently taking up space in her > house, and we do not want them. We would like to either recycle them or > give them to someone who is interested in them. > > She is currently located in NE Iowa. Would you by chance know of > anyone who would be interested in these systems? I hate to just pitch > them. > > Thanks, > > Michael Brodt > St. Louis, MO > brodtm(a)msnotes.wustl.edu >

24 years, 6 months

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Hardest to Find Classic Computers

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: William Donzelli [mailto:aw288@osfn.org] > > workstations. Clipper based, and pre-clipper (were they > VAX?) Intergraph > > systems. > The early big servers were VAX based. In fact, they were mostly just > rebadged. RCS/RI has an Intergraph VAX 8550. It has some > really strange > custom hardware in the disk controllers - something about > these things > could do searches thru files on the disks for specific > graphics entities > (for CAD) without bothering the processor. Odd. "Really-strange-custom-hardware" was Intergraph's middle name for the longest time. That's what makes their systems so interesting. > > There's one CDC workstation that was a re-badged Indigo, that's > > relatively common. It's the only CDC system I've seen for sale. > CDC was rebadging IRIS 3000 machines as Cyber 910s. *Really*? What are my chances of finding one? I'd love to have an IRIS 3000, if I found that I could fit it in the house. :) Did they run the early versions of IRIX? Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

24 years, 6 months

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OS/2

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Doc [mailto:doc@mdrconsult.com] > I'm pretty sure I have a copy of Warp 4 Server, if I can find it. I'll > look this weekend. ISTR, though, hearing that the OS/2 CDs don't image > well. Does anybody know whether that's true? I maintain that a > byte-for-byte dd will work on *anything*. Very Slowly. :) Well, I've never met a standard CD that it wouldn't work on. I was told third-hand by somebody who worked for SGI that their media was somehow "copy protected" and couldn't be reproduced well. I've successfully imaged my IRIX 6.2 media and booted/installed my system >from the backup. Works fine. Also have done VMS, Solaris, and one of the "extras" disks that goes with AIX. All of them worked fine. Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

24 years, 6 months

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was "how to clean".. How did they

by gehrich＠tampabay.rr.com

At 04:28 AM 12/18/01 -0500, you wrote: >Actually, for manufacturing operators, in IBM, women on average make more >than men. I don't know if it has changed but when I was with IBM they paid for performance in manufacturing. Those who contributed the most were paid the most. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- gene(a)ehrich.com gehrich(a)tampabay.rr.com P.O. Box 3365 Spring Hill Florida 34611-3365 http://www.voicenet.com/~generic Computer & Video Game Garage Sale I accept PayPal To subscribe to automatic updates send a blank e-mail to: online-garage-sale-subscribe(a)yahoogroups.com

24 years, 6 months

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OS/2

by Robert_Feldman＠jdedwards.com

More office cleanout finds: I salvaged a new, shrink-wrapped copy of OS/2 Warp Version 3, Red label (needs a separated copy of DOS/Windows), 3.5" disks. I'm offering it free for postage (5 pounds) or pickup in the Chicago Loop. Email me at robert_feldman(a)jdedwards.com. I will decide among multiple requests next week (after Christmas holidays). Bob

24 years, 6 months

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Troll got me (was Re: Is there no end)

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> I based my statement upon information gleaned from conversations with my > customers, 80% of which are black. Most of them think that Kwanzaa was > "made up" by retailers in order to get their money. Some have told me that > they resent the "social engineering" aspect of Kwanzaa. Here in the South, > there seems to be very little support of or identification with this event > among African-Americans. Doubtlessly true; I've heard some people say the same thing about Christmas. > > January 1 was "made up" into New Years Day by an act of > > fiat; New Years Day used to be April 1. > > When and how did this happen? Actually, there was no "act", that was hyperbole. The earliest reference to a Januray 1 New Year I can find is the Roman Civil Year. Later, the Catholic Church, which liked to line up the calendar with its Holy Events, wanted sto see Christmas become the start of the new year. But some later winter/early spring feasts were a popular time for the people, so through much of the dark ages, April 1 was the start of the New year. When the establishment of the Gregorian Calnedar began to take hold (which moved New Year's Day officially to Jan 1), people foolish enought to still celebrate it on April 1 became known as "April's Fools". The Gregorian Calendar was adopted tt different times in different countries; I think Russia held out until the early 20th Centurt. See http://www.genfair.com/dates.htm for more info. Regards, -dq

24 years, 6 months

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Paper Tape Fun

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> I recently acquired (out of desperation) a DSI paper > tape punch/reader on ePay (at a reasonable price, but > not guaranteed to work). I cleaned it up, oiled it > here and there, and after puzzling out the RS-232, got > it running punching Mylar fine. To test it, I wrote a > Windows program to test it out with; the program lets > you type in a phrase, looks up the ASCII, and prints > the letters out on the tape in a 7x5 matrix format, > upper and lower case. I'm pretty sure that there were > programs that ran on mainframes to do this sort of > thing. Useless, but kind of fun - I made a banner for > my museum with it. If anyone on this list has a > punch, and admits to using Windows, ha ha, I can make > this available. On the CDC 6600, we had a Model 415 High-Speed Paper Tape Reader/Punch. We had a locally-created control card we'd use to control the disposition of output. In the standard KRONOS system, it was DISPOSE, but we had so many devices spread out over so many campuses that we wrote a card we called ROUTE. Among other tasks, ROUTE provided the banner pages for print jobs. A standard feature of the banner was the job name, usually, your three initials plus a job ordinal. When you'd sent output to the tape punch, it would punch the job name at the start of the tape, in the manner you describe. Regards, -dq

24 years, 6 months

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Hardest to Find Classic Computers

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> On another note, CDC hardware that wasn't OEM'd from SGI seems relatively > uncommon. There's one CDC workstation that was a re-badged Indigo, that's > relatively common. It's the only CDC system I've seen for sale. Fascinating... and of the CDC hardware I've seen for sale, I've never seen anything that CDC didn't build themselves. But then, all I've seen was 60s & 70s era stuff... -dq

24 years, 6 months

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Flashing Light Indicators un Simple Front Panels

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> Why on earth would Sun put a cool set of leds UNDERNEATH the cover? I mean, > you might as well put it out there. Apollo did this, too, but had cute little hinged doors covering the LEDs' most everyone leaves them open, because one LED is flashed by the system once per second, and is called "The Heartbeat". The Prime 2455 has four LEDs on its virtual control panel board, three red and one green. No one I can find has a clue what they all indicate... -dq

24 years, 6 months

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Static was Re: [PDP8-Lovers] Re: how to clean a PDP8/A, dishwasher?

by mranalog＠attbi.com

Matthew Sell <msell(a)ontimesupport.com> wrote: > Vacuum cleaning is much more "dangerous" for a PCB than washing it. > Pete made a very good point, one I had forgotten, the static charge created > by dust moving through an insulated (plastic) pipe can generate some > obscene voltages. This is not a problem with a little bit of planning. One of my other hobbies is woodworking. Breathing in the sawdust from many hardwoods is very unhealthy, so most well financed wood shops have some kind of dust collection systems. With flow rates of 200-1100 cfm and long runs of plastic hose, a dust collector plus sawdust can be an explosive situation. Thats why grounding kit are sold separatly or included with most dust collectors. These kits consist of a lenth of wire that runs down the hose and metal clamps to clamp the wire to the hose at regular intervals. These kits are available in most woodworking stores. Of course my favorite way to protect a circuit board from static is to cover the solder side with aluminum foil, lay it on conductive foam or a conductive plastic bag. On a different subject: I've also used aluminum foil to create a ground plane to cut down on noise on some extender boards. I take two pieces of cardboard the size of the PCB and wrap one with aluminum foil. After making sure that none of the solder joints will poke through the bare piece of cardboard, I make a sandwich of the solder side of the PCB, the bare piece of cardboard, and then the aluminum wrapped cardboard. With this taped to the PCB, I solder a wire >from the aluminum foil to ground on the PCB. Regards, --Doug ========================================= Doug Coward @ home in Poulsbo, WA Analog Computer Online Museum and History Center http://www.best.com/~dcoward/analog =========================================

24 years, 6 months

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Hardest to Find Classic Computers

by Adrian.Graham＠corporatemicrosystems.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Sellam Ismail [mailto:foo@siconic.com] > Sent: 17 December 2001 21:43 > To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Hardest to Find Classic Computers > > > The Digital Group systems get my vote. I've only *heard* of about 3, > > since being on this list, which is a while. Maybe because no-one is > > looking? I can't even imagine finding a full-up system, with several > > CPU boards, Phi-deck tape drives, and matching cabinets for the > > monitor, system unit, and tape drives, not to mention all > the OS's and > > other software... well, maybe I can imagine it... > > Yep, I'd agree here too. I have one complete system, and > aside from that, > the only other one I've ever seen was a kit sold at VCF 2.0 (or was it > 3.0)? > Dammit - I was offered a Digital Group machine earlier this year and the only thing that stopped me was the horrendous shipping cost from the US. This thing had the (in)famous tape unit attached that contained either 4 or 6 drives; can't remember. I've still got the pix of it somewhere, and it also spurred me on to do some digging with the result of finding Gus Calabrese who was the founder (or one of them) of TDG in the first place...... -- Adrian Graham, Corporate Microsystems Ltd e: adrian.graham(a)corporatemicrosystems.com w: www.corporatemicrosystems.com w2: www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Online Computer Museum)

24 years, 6 months

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Flashing Light Indicators un Simple Front Panels

by Antonio.Carlini＠riverstonenet.com

> My Vaxstation 4000/60 has an 8 (or so) red led that also > posts codes at > power on but nothing else in either vms or in netbsd. A number of years ago, someone wrote a utility for OpenVMS that would display a CPU load on the seven segment LED of a MicroVAX II 9or MicroVAX 3600 series, I forget). Assuming you can find it, hacking it to do the VS4000-60/VS4000-9x LEDs should not be too much of a stretch. Antonio

24 years, 6 months

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My Last Day Of Finds in MN

by jrkeys＠concentric.net

I spent most of today checking out most of my favorite places and found few goodies to take back to Texas. A lot of it is too new to list here but at the low prices I could not pass the items up. I picked a April 1985 issue of COMPUTE! with pictures and a article on a Commodore LCD called a second-generation lap portable with 80 x 16 flip-up display, 32K RAM, internal modem, and eight built-in programs for under $600. Has anyone every seen one in real life or better yet does anyone own one? It looks pretty cool in the photo shown in the mag. Some of the other items are listed below. 1. ICD printer connector cable for Atari 850 new in unopened package 2. Tandy cat#26-1398 6' RS232C cable new unopened package 3. Commodore Model 1351 mouse 4. Several Sega Master System cartridges 5. Compute! March 1985 issue some good stuff in it also. 6. Several mousepads for the collection 7. A RAD robot 8. A nice book called Understanding Computers by Grace Murray Hopper 9. Some Apple and Toshiba technical manuals 10. Tele-games Video Arcade (Sears) with 2- controllers and 2- paddles, also came with 3 cartridges 11. A NeXT keyboard (pn 2122) and mouse (pn 193), the mouse was a style I had not seen before. Well that's all I can list as the others are not classic yet. Keep Computing

24 years, 6 months

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Shall I open it, or does someone want it....

by rhudson＠cnonline.net

I have December 1967 inCider, still wrapped in it's plastic bag. I wonder if anyone is collecting magazines and would find this more collectable because it still has the plastic. I just want to read inCiders, especially those with articles about the pre-GS apple II machines. Anyone wanna trade me? Anyone got inCider or nibble magazines they want to get rid of? I am in the San Jose, CA area- we can arrange to meet.

24 years, 6 months

4
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MITS 2SIO serial chip?

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

8251 was an OK chip, it had bugs, FYI there are three versions and each has it's oddities! I have tons of them and use them but, you do have to be aware of the oddities. The worst ones are initial programming after reset (buffer clear bug) and the repeats last character on /cts false if TX shifter is not empty (8251A). However the 2SIO didn't use it. NS* did use them as did many others. The worst chip was the 8250. Allison -----Original Message----- From: Gene Buckle <geneb(a)deltasoft.com> To: 'classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org' <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> Date: Friday, December 14, 2001 12:29 PM Subject: RE: MITS 2SIO serial chip? >> > Does anyone know what chip was used for the MITS serial boards? I thought >> > that it was the 6850, but I could be wrong. >> >> Weren't a lot of people using the 8251 back in those days? >> >> I had to play some tricks in getting an interrupt-driver >> written for the 8251... this was for the redoubtable >> Data General One, a sort cool, sorta nasty laptop... >> >> -dq > >I always thought the 8251 was a pretty kick-ass chip. I learned a lot >about it since the Royal Alphatronic PC that I've got (somewhere in this >disaster of mine) uses it. I was pleasantly surprised a number of years >ago when I discovered someone had made a BYE insert for it. :) > >g. > >

24 years, 6 months

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MITS 2SIO serial chip?

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

From: Ben Franchuk <bfranchuk(a)jetnet.ab.ca> >> rebuilt sans sockets at one point or another. >In this case I plan to use good sockets. >> A lousy one if you have a raft of TTL and few FPGAs. ;) > >All the TTL is in the FPGA.:) >Most of the TTL used is simple buffering or decoding. Ah, don'tcha think I know that? ;) Then again I have enough loose TTL to make a 24bit stretch PDP-8 with two sets of spares and a full compliment of IO. I've done my stint as a hardware designer analog DC to UHF and digital. >The whole point of the cpu I designed, was because I am not happy >with 8 bit micro's, RISC machines, or INTEL. Now what I wonder about >is people that put a 6502 in a FPGA while you still can buy the real >thing? >I also wonder about FPGA's when you can't fit a 6502 in one! Use a bigger FPGA... Thats why hammers come from small 4oz all the way to to 10 pounds! >I can guarantee you don't have a 12/24 bit cpu like mine. ( Not that you >would want one :) ) Been there done that. Mine was 2901 based Z80 clone with hybrid uCode wide bus and extented instruction set... Still didnt run any thing useful on it, too big, too hot and far to weird. It was a good learning tool depite all that. Allison

24 years, 6 months

3
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DEC Cable?

by DAW＠yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu

I've got two cables here, DEC p/n BCC17-06 and one with out a p/n, but looks like a DEC cable. Any ideas who/what they're for? And can one of them replace the mono video cable on my VAX Station 3100 (BC23K-03)? DEC p/n BCC17-06: 15 pin D-sub connector <--> a box with a DEC keyboard connector (the phone plug looking thing), and/then 3 BNC (r,g,b) Un-marked: 15 pin D-sub connector <--> box with PS-2 keyboard and mouse connectors, then 3 BNC connectors (r,g,b) - this was included in the shopping bag that came with my DEC 3000-400, but this doesn't go with it. The PMAGB-B video adaptor in slot 0 has the 3W3 (?) video connector... --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818

24 years, 6 months

3
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"Geeks" and licensing

by acme_ent＠bellsouth.net

> From: Christopher Smith <csmith(a)amdocs.com> > I'm not saying that to get an entry level job in the field you should need > to know the machine architecture like the back of your hand, but you should > at least know the basics and be willing to learn the rest. The operative term here being "willing to learn the rest." Too many degree-holders which I've met seem to believe that they "know it all" and don't need to learn any more than they already know. As a consequence, they ask the same questions again and again. I'm of the old school -- don't go to your boss with a problem, go to your boss with a *solution.* I make it a point to learn *something* every day. Keeps my brain from drying out . . . Glen 0/0

24 years, 6 months

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TI Calc and PS/1 printer

by mythtech＠Mac.com

I finally got a chance to get to the new thrift store that opened near me (Salvation Army). I got a good deal on a 28.8 external Mac modem (needed one for my nephew, 56k would have been nicer, but for $1 I can't argue). While I was there, I saw two items that might be of interest to some of you. 1: Texas Instruments calculator "Standard Business Analyst" in a wallet case with a small guide book. They want $8 for it. 2: IBM PS/1 printer (dot matrix it looked like, but I didn't crouch down to really check it out). They want $20 IIRC. I will be going back there in a few days to see what the price is on an Apple Thermal Transfer Printer (I have never heard of such a beast, but since it carries a DB25 connector, I assume it is Apple II series stuff, platinum, so it is later II). It didn't have a price tag on it, and it seems they have a policy that when something has no tag, they remove it >from inventory to be retagged and put back out on an unspecified day (I guess to keep people from pulling tags to try to get things cheaper). If anyone has an interest in the calculator or IBM printer (or the Apple one, but specify what your max price for it is... I myself won't pay more than $10), I can pick them up when I go back (and for the apple printer, if they want more than $10 but less than someone else's max, I can pick it up for them). Let me know -chris <http://www.mythtech.net>

24 years, 6 months

1
0
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MITS 2SIO serial chip?

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

From: Richard Erlacher <edick(a)idcomm.com> >won't support, and that's formatting with interleaving. The NEC parts seem to >be unable to format a diskette with other than strict ordinal sector numbering, Obviously you know not how the part works. I used to put sectors down on floppies with physical skew for CPM using 765/9266/37C65. It was dirt simple. When the 765 and clones write they want CHRN, All you need to do is make R the sector number what ever you want it to be then feed it to the FDC when doing a format track. What's difficult about that? Allison

24 years, 6 months

2
1
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MITS 2SIO serial chip?

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

A newer chip that can still be found is the WD37C65 that will do 125ns easily. Or you could easily find a d765 off an old board or NOS from JDR. Allison -----Original Message----- From: Ben Franchuk <bfranchuk(a)jetnet.ab.ca> To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> Date: Sunday, December 16, 2001 5:55 PM Subject: Re: MITS 2SIO serial chip? >If you must know it is a floppy disk controller I need. Right now >I plan to use WD2797 floppy disk controller. I would love to use >a newer chip,but I can't find any! I want to stay with DIP's and PLCC's >here. This may be the 21 century but my soldering skills are the 19'th. >I still favor the simple dumb uart chip. TR1602?. I like things than >you hit reset, it starts ... not like the classic star-trek computers that >always go down. Usually when you need them. It's an OK part but you could use the 8251 with fewer supporting parts and two less voltages (com2502 is single voltage). I've built enough to enjoy later parts as I'm old enough to want it done in a lifetime and the older parts meant tons more support parts and the requisite connections. Of the latter, the fewer the better for both buildability and reliability. Allison

24 years, 6 months

5
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Troll got me (was Re: Is there no end)

by acme_ent＠bellsouth.net

> From: Douglas Quebbeman <dhquebbeman(a)theestopinalgroup.com> > The difference between "real" holidays and "made up" Holidays > seems to be: if the Holiday was "made up" before you were born, > then it's real (like Mother's Day, which was instituted by > President Woodrow Wilson); if it was made up in your lifetime, > then it's "not real, just made up." I based my statement upon information gleaned from conversations with my customers, 80% of which are black. Most of them think that Kwanzaa was "made up" by retailers in order to get their money. Some have told me that they resent the "social engineering" aspect of Kwanzaa. Here in the South, there seems to be very little support of or identification with this event among African-Americans. > January 1 was "made up" into New Years Day by an act of > fiat; New Years Day used to be April 1. When and how did this happen? > I believe "Father's Day" was "made up" in the 50s... > I hope the pattern is clear... Kwanzaa is as valid > a Holiday as any. For those who celebrate it, I'm sure this is true. It's just that I haven't met many of them . . . Glen 0/0

24 years, 6 months

1
0
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AltairDOS information

by RCini＠congressfinancial.com

Hi: I'm preparing for the 2.1 release of the Altair32 Emulator and am finishing up the help files. I have manuals for Microsoft BASIC and CP/M 2.2 but I have nothing on Altair DOS. Does anyone have a copy of this manual either in physical or electronic form that I can have? Thanks. Rich ========================== Richard A. Cini, Jr. Congress Financial Corporation 1133 Avenue of the Americas 30th Floor New York, NY 10036 (212) 545-4402 (212) 840-6259 (facsimile)

24 years, 6 months

3
3
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Waaay UT (undertopic): W9x Thumbnail association.

by allain＠panix.com

This is pretty bad, but somewhat important right now. Anybody know how to associate .jpg files to the IE thumbnail viewer (mini previews) in W98? I don't want to embarrass anyone so you can contact me off list. Its bad enough I have to admit using it. John A.

24 years, 6 months

1
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was "how to clean".. How did they

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

In reality it was far different than that. Women would work for lower wage than men doing a tedious task that was fairly skill intensive. Allison -----Original Message----- From: Russ Blakeman <rhblakeman(a)kih.net> To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> Date: Monday, December 17, 2001 9:50 PM Subject: RE: was "how to clean".. How did they >Not to be sexist or rude but I think that women have a better tolerance for >boring tedious work while sitting on their butts for long periods of time. > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org >[mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Sellam Ismail >Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 3:25 PM >To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org >Subject: Re: was "how to clean".. How did they > > >On Sun, 16 Dec 2001, ajp166 wrote: > >> Hand made, usually by women working under low power microscopes. > >And they had women doing the work because they apparently are better >at working with their hands (i.e. needlework). > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer >Festival >------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- >-- >International Man of Intrigue and Danger >http://www.vintage.org > >

24 years, 6 months

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testing - please ignore

by west＠tseinc.com

More work *sigh*

24 years, 6 months

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Flashing Light Indicators un Simple Front Panels

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Dec 15, 19:49, Matt London wrote: > >From what I've noticed, the SparcStation 1 flashes it's power LED when > doing a selftest, but I'm not near the box, so I can't check :&) > > And as Jeff said - Amigas flash the power LED. So they do. I should have remembered that, since I have one of each in this room! -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

24 years, 6 months

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mail list cleanup - please ignore

by west＠tseinc.com

Trying to get rid of a bunch of invalid email addresses in the list. Please ignore this message Jay West

24 years, 6 months

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[PDP8-Lovers] Re: how to clean a PDP8/A, dishwasher?

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Dec 18, 0:07, Johnny Billquist wrote: > On Mon, 17 Dec 2001, Pete Turnbull wrote: > > Domestic ones I've seen won't. Apart from the soaking -- that's the point > > of using it, obviously. Very few things are intolerant: some relays, > > transformers, a few types of switches, etc, usually just because they take > > too long to dry out. And core mats, of course, because they're very > > fragile and extremely hard to repair. > > Don't forget old transformers, which often use something looking very much > like paper for isolation. Agreed. That's why my PDP-8/E's H740 power supply got a different treatment. It still got washed, though. > > > Grab a bottle of isopropanol, some swabs, and start working. > > > > Doesn't work well on smoke-damaged boards, Coke, etc, and water is far > > cheaper and safer (for the user, too). > > It works, but it requires more work. It doesn't work very well. It's almost impossible to get all the crud out >from under ICs, DIL switches, or sockets. IPA does not do a good job on smoke-damaged boards. > > TTL may be > > much less sensitive than old CMOS and even modern CMOS and TTL > > replacements, but it is still sensitive and can be damaged by ESD. It's > > not so likely to be damaged when soldered into a complete circuit, but it's > > possible. I've had at least two QBus boards damaged by ESD through > > careless handling. > > Eh? Q-bus cards, even the oldest you can find, are LSI stuff. You won't > find much of anything even *that* modern in a PDP-8. Actually, much Q-bus > stuff is really modern compared to what I'm thinking of... Plenty of QBus cards use TTL, basic 74 series, not just LS. I just pulled a few out to check. In the faulty ones I referred to, it was some TTL PROMs in one of them that had gone (lost several bits), and I can't remember what was wrong with the other one. Nevertheless, even original 74 series TTL is static-sensitive, and the worst part is that things can be degraded by ESD without failing completely. That's why modern circuits include extra ESD protection. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

24 years, 6 months

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More Great Re-finds During move

by jrkeys＠concentric.net

Today I really got lucky and found some items I had been looking for such the NeXT megapixel display model N4000B for the NeXT cube I have yet to test and others that I had forgot that I had. The others are listed below: 2. CPT 8535 with dual 8" drives 3. HP 87 4. hp 140A scope 5. ALTOS 686 6. digital Micro PDP-11 tower 7. IBM 5110 8. Monroe 326 Scientist with Monroe 392 cassette, manual (marked Beta), and a nice black carrying case 9. CPT 9000 tower (good for parts only) 10. CPT SRS 45 (2 of them) 11. TeleVideo model 910 terminal 12. HP150 with built-in printer 13. IBM type 4055 terminal 14. UNISYS terminal could not find a model number on it I loaded a few of the finds in front of the truck to bring home to play with. That's it for now. Keep computing

24 years, 6 months

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Burroughs - any information?

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

At 04:26 PM 12/14/01 -0500, you wrote: >On Wed, 12 Dec 2001, Ben Franchuk wrote: > >> Was not Burroughs and a few other companies noted for destroying all old >> equipment >> and leasing only? > >Yes. No necessarily. I used to work for Burroughs in Roanoke, Va and we just pushed the old machines out to the dumpster. We never pulled any parts or anything so they were complete. I was amazed to discover this when I started work there and I asked if it was ok to pull parts and they said yes. I looted the first few machines but soon had all the parts I wanted so the rest escaped untouched. Burroughs usually rented machines but I know they did sell atleast some of them. But their repair, updates and other service costs were so expensive that I doubt anyone other than US Government agencies were foolish enough to buy the machine and pay cash for service. Joe

24 years, 6 months

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Warp Connect V3 (was Re: OS/2)

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 12/17/01 7:15:05 PM Eastern Standard Time, louiss(a)gate.net writes: << You can patch Warp 3 up to its final Fixpack (40) from IBM's OS/2 support site. The latest version of OS/2 (which is still supported and updated) is 4.5. It is available only by subscription from IBM, or it has also been incorporated into a retail version by a third party called ECom Station, which you can find out about at their website. Warp 4.5 is much better than any version of Windows. Unfortunately, it doesn't have the level of hardware or software support, of course. Louis >> The best way to update OS/2 is to find the WarpUp cd that was made by indelible blue. Unfortunately, they are out of business. I use it on my OS/2 systems and its pretty much automated although the java install takes hours for some reason. I'm not sure who has taken over the warpup project now. If someone is looking for it perhaps I can help.... easy networking with OS/2 <revisions for win2k and xp coming soon> www.nothingtodo.org/easyos2.htm

24 years, 6 months

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FLUKE?

by jeff.kaneko＠juno.com

I worked for FLUKE in the early 1980's, at their Burbank repair facility, in Burbank Ca (where I also lived). The FLUKE 1720 and 1722 machines did not use 8" floppy drives, they used 5.25" floppies, with optional bubble memory and Winchester (using a GPIB interface). There are only three kinds of system that FLUKE made that utilized (or could have utilized) 8" floppies: 1. FLUKE 3040/3050/3053 series board testers. These are of some interest, because it's the only application I ever saw that used the PACE microprocessor. These things are about the size and shape of an upright piano (and just as heavy). The 'upright' part was covered mit swicthen und blinkenlites. The computer was in a cardcage bolted to the underside of the table, which also helld the 8" drives. They made this cool, low pitched WAAAAAAAH! AAAAAAH! AAAH! AAAH! AAAH! sound when booting. 2. FLUKE 3200 Manufacturing Fault Analyzer. These were largely used to test bare boards and wire harnesses. These are particularly interesting not only because they used 8" floppies, but they used an off-the-shelf computer made by ONTEL. It ran a hacked-up version of CP/M, and was programmed in ATLAS. This beast had *no* blinkenlites. 3. FLUKE 'Terminal/10' analog test system. The T/10 was already old when it was moved to the back of the 1981 FLUKE Catalog. It was an ATE system aimed at analog device testing. It was controlled by a PDP-11 (need I say more?). I think it ran a hacked-up version of RT-11 (but I'm not certain). I've never seen one of these. Jeff ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

24 years, 6 months

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"Geeks" and licensing

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Steve Robertson [mailto:steven_j_robertson@hotmail.com] > 3.) The explosion of the Internet has brought a lot of people > into the > software development arena that should be in other > professions. In recent > years, anyone that knew a language's syntax could get a job > as a developer. > "Knowing the syntax does not a developer make". Hmmm... That > could be my new > sig file :-) I agree completely, but since you raise such a good point, what would you say _does_ make one a "developer?" Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

24 years, 6 months

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"Geeks" and licensing

by acme_ent＠bellsouth.net

> From: Christopher Smith <csmith(a)amdocs.com> > (To whit: I worked at one point with a guy who was convinced that every > operating system in the world was derived in some manner from MS-DOS. Yes, > that includes the Macintosh operating system too. "CP/M? What's that? > Unix is based on MS-DOS, right?" The guy was a "programmer.") (gag, puke) Well, most of us (except for Tony) have areas that we are not expert in, or even familiar with. The problem with the fellow you refer to is 1 -- The person who hired him. That person should be disposed of in the most painful way possible. 2 -- The institution which granted him a degree (if any). I've also had to work alongside people who managed to scrape their way into a "programming" job without having "what it takes" to really write code *and* solve problems. Don't get me wrong -- I have no degree and don't think one's required to be a competent analyst/programmer/whatever. But . . . Should programmers be licensed? Sure makes me wonder . . . Glen 00

24 years, 6 months

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[PDP8-Lovers] Re: how to clean a PDP8/A, dishwasher?

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Dec 17, 9:30, Johnny Billquist wrote: > On Sun, 16 Dec 2001, Pete Turnbull wrote: > They wash them yes. They *don't* put them in a dishwasher. There is a > hughe difference. I know some who do... Anyway, if the dishwasher doesn't use a hot air drying cycle, there's little difference. > > Yes, a certain amount of care is required, and certain > > things can't tolerate being soaked or being too hot or given too much > > mechanical agitation (stress). > > Which all are things I suspect a normal dishwasher might do. Domestic ones I've seen won't. Apart from the soaking -- that's the point of using it, obviously. Very few things are intolerant: some relays, transformers, a few types of switches, etc, usually just because they take too long to dry out. And core mats, of course, because they're very fragile and extremely hard to repair. > > But how would you deal with a piece of > > equipment that was smoke damaged or had been left in the rain or had fallen > > in a river or had been infested with vermin or had a can of Coke spilled in > > it? I've had to deal with all of those and more over the last two decades, > > and washing is the only way. > > Grab a bottle of isopropanol, some swabs, and start working. Doesn't work well on smoke-damaged boards, Coke, etc, and water is far cheaper and safer (for the user, too). > ESD should never be ignored, but in the case of computer from the 60s and > 70s, ESD is really not an issue. We don't have CMOS, we have old style MSI > TTL here... It is not ESD sensitive. I think you'll find most experts disagree with you there :-) TTL may be much less sensitive than old CMOS and even modern CMOS and TTL replacements, but it is still sensitive and can be damaged by ESD. It's not so likely to be damaged when soldered into a complete circuit, but it's possible. I've had at least two QBus boards damaged by ESD through careless handling. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

24 years, 6 months

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P5020 keyboard

by hofmanwb＠worldonline.nl

I recently found a Philips P5020 without a keyboard. Is there anybody with a spare keyboard he could part from? Or alternatively is there any way I could adapt an existing keyboard to the P5020? I live in Arnhem, The Netherlands Thank in advance Wim

24 years, 6 months

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New Finds

by dittman＠dittman.net

Today I found the following: 1) IBM PS/2 P70 Portable with Xenix386 loaded. Does anyone know how to bypass the root password so I can log in? 2) A DEC BC56H SCSI cable. I have enough, but since this is a little hard to find, I bought it to pass on to anyone on the list that needs it. 3) An Apple board with part number 077-0219-A. This has two 9-pin connectors, one labeled "TO MOUSE UNIT" and the other labeled "TO MOUSE CONN.". There's a 25-pin connector labeled "TO SCSI CONN.". The date on the board is 1985. Since the board only cost $1, I figured I'd better grab it before it was tossed. -- Eric Dittman dittman(a)dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/

24 years, 6 months

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OS/2

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On December 17, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > Yup...this is to support a P/390 card, so it's somewhat > > version-dependant. It's for a new install. > > Dang! Lucky bum! I'm green with envy! ;-) -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf

24 years, 6 months

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"Geeks" and licensing

by steven_j_robertson＠hotmail.com

> > For a little bit of on-topic goodness, what is the group's opinion on > > the trend of software engineering quality starting from ancient times? > > Have we improved (practially, not academically) or worsened? > >I think it's about stayed the same. Programmers were, are, and will >always be lazy and impatient. > >If you look at Microsoft code excluisvely, one could make a good argument >that we've worsened considerably. > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer >Festival >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >International Man of Intrigue and Danger >http://www.vintage.org As a software quality professional involved in the industry for nearly 30 years, I would contend that the quality of software is far worse today than previously. I think this has come about for several reasons. 1.) The tools the developers use to create software has made it "acceptible" to take shortcuts in the documentation, design, and testing of software. When I first started in engineering, every project was completely documented and desk checked BEFORE any code was written. While best practices indicates this is the correct way to engineer any project, cost was the real driving force for this methodology. When you had to punch cards, and schedule time on a mainframe to compile an application, it was easy to see the cost savings in doing it right the first time. If a programmer (they weren't called developers back then) wrote an application and it bombed, it could be several days before the code would be recompiled. The costs in doing that were pretty obvious and management simply would not allow a programmer to write code until everything else was complete. In todays environment, a developer can compile the application on their workstation in a matter of seconds. You can make a code change, compile the application, and test a module in just a few seconds. While that sounds like an effective way to work, those shortcuts lead to an overall lack of quality. Most developers where I currently work, write the code first then create documentation that reflects the way their software works. Worst of all, uninformed management believes this is the most efficient way to create software. 2.) The current business environment places tremendous value on being the "first to market". This is true even if the software is completely non-functional. As long as you release it before your competitors, you've got an advantage. Even if it doesn't work! 3.) The explosion of the Internet has brought a lot of people into the software development arena that should be in other professions. In recent years, anyone that knew a language's syntax could get a job as a developer. "Knowing the syntax does not a developer make". Hmmm... That could be my new sig file :-) 4.) Lower user expectations. My $.02 SteveRob _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx

24 years, 6 months

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[PDP8-Lovers] Re: how to clean a PDP8/A, dishwasher?

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Dec 17, 10:41, Matthew Sell wrote: > Vacuum cleaning is much more "dangerous" for a PCB than washing it. > > Pete made a very good point, one I had forgotten, the static charge created > by dust moving through an insulated (plastic) pipe can generate some > obscene voltages. > > Remember the old science experiment involving the comb generating static > electricity? That voltage is enough to wipe nearly the entire board. Of course, one has to be realistic about all this. Vacuuming a PCB with the aid of a soft paintbrush isn't likly to do much harm if the vacuum nozzle is metal and you're holding it and you're grounded, because the static on the nozzle is unlikely to build up to excessive levels. > Remember the old science experiment involving the comb generating static > electricity? That voltage is enough to wipe nearly the entire board. > > Like I said before, don't take my word for it. Take an old, dirty board > that you know works, and run it through the dishwasher. Dot use the plate > warmer or drying functions. At the end of the cycle, remove it, shake it > off, and allow it to dry for several days (hang it up). Plug it back in - > it'll work. > > And it'll look nearly new..... > > > - Matt -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

24 years, 6 months

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OS/2

by healyzh＠aracnet.com

> Yup...this is to support a P/390 card, so it's somewhat > version-dependant. It's for a new install. Dang! Lucky bum! I'm green with envy! Zane

24 years, 6 months

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OS/2

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On December 17, Jeff Hellige wrote: > OS/2 Warp 3 (red box, Windows support requires existing > Windows installation) is 27 disks for OS/2 plus an additional 14 > disks for the Bonus Pack. OS/2 Warp Connect version 3 (Blue box, > includes DOS/Windows support) is on CD-ROM, as is the Bonus Pack. It > does have two diskettes from which to boot the system for > installation though. Is there a specific disk(s) that you need to > replace for Warp 3? I also have OS/2 for Windows version 2.1. Yup...this is to support a P/390 card, so it's somewhat version-dependant. It's for a new install. -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf

24 years, 6 months

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"Geeks" and licensing

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Glen Goodwin [mailto:acme_ent@bellsouth.net] > even familiar with. The problem with the fellow you refer to is > 1 -- The person who hired him. That person should be > disposed of in the > most painful way possible. Yep. Stupid (and/or ignorant) people in positions of power. Common, but regrettable. > 2 -- The institution which granted him a degree (if any). See my comment regarding #1. It applies here too. :) > I've also had to work alongside people who managed to scrape > their way into > a "programming" job without having "what it takes" to really > write code > *and* solve problems. Don't get me wrong -- I have no degree > and don't > think one's required to be a competent analyst/programmer/whatever. My opinion too. In fact, I haven't got a degree yet, myself. I do plan on eventually getting one, but it seems to me that most of the first three years of any degree program (even some two-year degrees ;) are filler, and there's only about a year (or less) of actual learning in there. I expect the amount of actual learning you'd have to do will also decrease with field-experience, so I'm not in a big hurry to acquire a sheet of paper. I do believe that at least some parts of any degree program could teach me something, though. The only question is whether it's something I wouldn't learn on my own. I do happen to be more pro-active about learning than most people. > But . . . > Should programmers be licensed? Sure makes me wonder . . . Depending on the license it may not be a bad idea ;) Really, though, I think that programmers shouldn't need to be licensed. Maybe managers should be licensed instead? Back to the problem with the programmer, though, I see this particular thing too much. There's an intense lack of fundamental understanding in most people who work with computers, and it really disgusts me. To use this as a specific example, this guy knew how to write some (really convoluted) stuff that the c++ compiler would accept, but had no real understanding of how or why any of it worked (or not.. ;) I'm not saying that to get an entry level job in the field you should need to know the machine architecture like the back of your hand, but you should at least know the basics and be willing to learn the rest. Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

24 years, 6 months

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Hardest to Find Classic Computers

by mtapley＠swri.edu

Douglas Q. wrote: >Ok, we've had threads similar to this one before, but >maybe not quite... > >What are the hardest to find Classic Computers? The Digital Group systems get my vote. I've only *heard* of about 3, since being on this list, which is a while. Maybe because no-one is looking? I can't even imagine finding a full-up system, with several CPU boards, Phi-deck tape drives, and matching cabinets for the monitor, system unit, and tape drives, not to mention all the OS's and other software... well, maybe I can imagine it... >Also not intended as the thrust of the topic: > > Systems you most of all want oops. But maybe there is some overlap? - Mark

24 years, 6 months

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