- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by pechter＠ureach.com

---- On Sat, 15 Dec 2001, Robert Schaefer (rschaefe(a)gcfn.org) wrote: > > > > > I'd also include Geeks who program any machine that could > accidentally > > > kill someone > > > > That has been documented. I believe the machine in question was > called > > the Thorac and it irradiated two people to death. I'm too sleepy to > > search on Google right now or I'd provide more information. > > I watched this, too. Seems if they edited one blank, went down and > filled > in another, then went back up and changes the prevoius blank, it would > ignore the intensity settings and jsut go straight to glow-in-the-dark. > Hell of a way to buy it. > > > > > -- > > Jeffrey S. Sharp > > Bob > > > > And it's a classic PDP11 driving the whole thing with RT11... I remember the lawsuit and DEC's saying we can't comment on it. The code for the application was less than operator fail safe... Hell, less than fail-resistant. Bill

24 years, 6 months

2
1
0 0

DEC bus driver/receiver chips

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Dec 20, 12:55, Carlini, Antonio wrote: > The obvious places to look > would be www.pdp8.net and www.pdp8.org > but neither seem to have that particular > printset. David has very kindly scanned the M8650 (Asynchronous Data Interface) and related parts printset and put them up on www.pdp8.net. Now I think I know what is wrong with my board, and I'm off to fix it :-) > I do have access to a 600dpi scanner > that can do up to 11"x17" and I've > scanned printsets with it successfully. > But I don't have that one - or anything > PDP-8 related ... anyone have WT78 > printsets or docs? :-) That would be nice -- I have a VT/78 but no docs. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

24 years, 6 months

1
0
0 0

Heath h-8

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk [mailto:ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk] > > So, how rare are the peripherals? In the absence of a > heath floppy drive, > > what else might I use(and how...)? Anyone know where I can get one? > The H17 should be able to use any normal 5.25" floppy drive. > The Heathkit > ones were (IIRC) 40 cylinder single sided. I would suspect > you could link > up a PC 360K drive and get it to work. You might have to cut the > connection to the side select pin (which will then be pulled > high by the > termiating resistors in the drive) so that it behaves as a > single-sided > unit. And there may be some issue with the drive select pins. But it > should be possible to get it to work. So hard sectors aren't required, then? I don't have a cable for it yet, so I'll just have to plan on cutting a wire. :) > If you have such a drive and a PSU to run it off, I'll dig > out the H17 > schematic (it's used in my Z90...) and see what needs to be fiddled. I do have extra floppy drives, which I'd be willing to toy with for it. Power supply wouldn't be a problem. > > Another interesting question is this: My H-8 has a strange > wire-wrapped > > breadboard, on top of what appears to be a normal 8080 CPU > Sounds like a homebrew Z80 modification board. Useful, but > I'd probably > go back to the 8080 if it was my machine.... Yep, my guess is that it's definitely a homebrew z80 modification. :) I might consider switching to 8080 again, but I do like the z80, and the home-made daughtercard is amusing, so I probably won't remove it permanently until I decide how it actually works. > > toying around? (Did CP/M ever run on these?) > > Isn't there some issue about the H8 having ROM at location 0 > (standard > CP/M needs RAM there)? I seem to remember there were special I believe you're right that the H8 has ROM there. It may be possible to change that with jumpers or switches. My systems has something which could be an "extended configuration" board, which is mentioned on one of the previous web-pages as allowing you to run CP/M. I'm not sure what it does to allow it, though. > CP/M will run on an 8080 BTW. But a fair number of 'normal' > CP/M programs > need a Z80. I see -- didn't know that. Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

24 years, 6 months

2
1
0 0

MITS 2SIO serial chip?

by pechter＠ureach.com

---- On Fri, 14 Dec 2001, Allison (ajp166(a)bellatlantic.net) wrote: > 8251 was an OK chip, it had bugs, FYI there are three versions > and each has it's oddities! I have tons of them and use them > but, you do have to be aware of the oddities. The worst ones > are initial programming after reset (buffer clear bug) and the > repeats last character on /cts false if TX shifter is not empty > (8251A). However the 2SIO didn't use it. > > > NS* did use them as did many others. The worst chip was > the 8250. > > Allison IIRC the Intel 8251 did full Sync as well as Async which was a plus. It's annoying drawback -- (DEC used it in the Robin and Rainbow) was the lack of modem flow control support. I'd have killed for an 8251 with CTS/RTS/DSR/DTR and DCD all on chip. Perhaps it should've been done on two chips if Intel couldn't get it on one. Bill

24 years, 6 months

1
0
0 0

Nile 150

by DAW＠yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu

! -----Original Message----- ! From: Jeffrey S. Sharp [mailto:jss@subatomix.com] ! ! > ! # Anyone know where this jewel is located? ! > ! ! > ! Dallas. :( That's too far from Ohio for me. Altho, if ! > ! anyone wants to deliver it, I'll happily accept it... ! > ! > Hmmm, well, you're closer than New Haven, CT... Delivery would ! > probably cost an arm and a leg... Bummer... ! ! Do I need to make Yet Another Trip To Texas again? It looks like someone down there spoke up for it... --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818

24 years, 6 months

1
0
0 0

Hardest to Find Classic Computers (Was: RE: Way OT: Just say no t o squirrels & Pascal question)

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Douglas Quebbeman [mailto:dhquebbeman@theestopinalgroup.com] > Also not intended as the thrust of the topic: > Systems you most of all want Well, you really can't get away from writing about systems you want, since you couldn't claim they're hard to find unless you've been looking. ;) That said, here I go... > These systems might be generally available, and might > go for a price you can afford, but you just can't *find* > them where you're at. > Around here for me, it would be PDP-8's and Lisa's. S-100 based CP/M machines seem to be very rare where I am. MVME-bus machines of any type have been difficult for me to locate. Acorn Archimedes systems are difficult, too, I assume because they were never really popular in the US. NeXT hardware of any type has been difficult for me to locate as well, especially recently. It seems that everybody would like to have it and there's not enough surplus left. Amiga systems are generally in the same boat as NeXT. Once in a while you find somebody who'll actually part with an Amiga, but it's rare. Most people still use them. I've never met a scrap AS/400 in person, though some of them show up on eBay once in a while, so I don't know if this will count. I've been looking for a TRS-80 Color Computer 3 setup for a very long time and haven't found one yet. I assume those are mostly just setting in peoples' closets and will appear in scrapyards and yard-sales eventually. Do peripherals count too? If so, try finding a 9-track drive that doesn't take up as much room as your fridge. Any EDSI hardware and controllers have been very elusive to me as well. Machines with front-panels are very rare. I have one, a Heath H-8. (You can select an address using the keypad and type programs in octal -- talk about an intuitive interface! I think we should replace the GUI with this... :) It's the only one I've ever met, honestly. (Speaking of which, I must eventually get it to do something interesting. :) I remember from old "Hot CoCo" magazines a few systems, namely the Dragon, and the "Micro Color Computer," which I have not seen since. It is difficult for me to find people who've even heard of, much less seen, much less know where I can get, a Symbolics system. The same applies to any of the Cray systems -- even when they were made in relatively high-volume. The SGI m68k machines are also relatively "unknown." (The Iris 2000/3000s) I'm sure there are more. Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

24 years, 6 months

6
11
0 0

Nile 150

by DAW＠yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu

How big is this thing? And no ideas as to what it is? --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 ! -----Original Message----- ! From: Eric Dittman [mailto:dittman@dittman.net] ! Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 5:26 PM ! To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org ! Subject: Nile 150 ! ! ! At the place I picked up my 9-track tape drive they had a Nile 150 ! system with storage unit that they're looking to unload. I don't ! know anything about the system (nor did they, other than the guy ! telling me about the system said it has MIPS R4x00 CPUs). ! -- ! Eric Dittman ! dittman(a)dittman.net ! Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ !

24 years, 6 months

3
2
0 0

Nile 150

by DAW＠yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu

! >! David Woyciesjes wrote: ! >! ! >! > How big is this thing? And no ideas as to what it is? ! >! ! >! It's a Pyramid SMP Unix box from around '96. Runs Simix, a ! >! SVR4-derived Unix. Typically used as big-ass (as in ! >! terabyte range) database servers. ! >! ! >! There may be a Linux port for the architecture, but ! >! I'm too lazy to check. ! >! ! >! Size clearly depends on configuration, but "not small" ! >! would be a good guess. ! >! ! >! Anyone know where this jewel is located? ! ! Dallas. :( That's too far from Ohio for me. Altho, if ! anyone wants to deliver it, I'll happily accept it... Hmmm, well, you're closer than New Haven, CT... Delivery would probably cost an arm and a leg... Bummer... --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818

24 years, 6 months

2
1
0 0

Hardest to Find Classic Computers (SX64)

by CLeyson＠aol.com

Re: Commodore SX64 - Thanks for the info Ethan. Havn't seen any recently in the UK but I think they were popular in Germany. I'm not actively looking out for one, it just sprang to mind. I never liked the C64 anyway, the custom chips were prone to early failure. Used to own an Atari 800 together with all of the software development manuals - wish I'd kept now. Chris

24 years, 6 months

4
7
0 0

DEC bus driver/receiver chips

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Dec 20, 8:39, David Gesswein wrote: > Threads on DEC chip crosses Thanks for those. I knew about the Signetics 8xxx series chips, as I have a Mullard/Signetics data book with the whole set. Vety useful for PDP-8's :-) > I have scanned my KL8E print set (M8650) (and a bunch of other common 8/E > boards I didn't have online). > http://www.pdp8.net/pdp8cgi/query_docs/view.pl?id=262 That should be *extremely* helpful. Thanks very much! -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

24 years, 6 months

1
0
0 0

DEC bus driver/receiver chips

by Antonio.Carlini＠riverstonenet.com

> pete(a)dunnington.u-net.com [SMTP:pete@dunnington.u-net.com] wrote: > >How many sheets are in the set? I wonder if you could copy it. I know you >don't have regular access to a copier, and not to an A3 copier, but the >schematic in sections would be useful. But first, I'll see how far I get >now I know the pinouts. The obvious places to look would be www.pdp8.net and www.pdp8.org but neither seem to have that particular printset. I do have access to a 600dpi scanner that can do up to 11"x17" and I've scanned printsets with it successfully. But I don't have that one - or anything PDP-8 related ... anyone have WT78 printsets or docs? :-) Antonio

24 years, 6 months

1
0
0 0

Heath h-8

by csmith＠amdocs.com

Ok guys, another project (yes, I really do have this many)... :) I have a Heath H-8. Seems to work. Thanks to the help of a guy who runs the only H-8 dedicated web-site I can find, I now believe that the thing has an "H-17" hard-sectored floppy interface, as well as a 4 port serial interface. Now, keying in programs from the front-panel is cool and everything, but I'm thinking of putting a console on it, and a disk drive, so that I can run HDOS, and maybe have some external storage. ;) So, how rare are the peripherals? In the absence of a heath floppy drive, what else might I use(and how...)? Anyone know where I can get one? I have a Lier-Siegler ADM-5 terminal, which I may want to plug into it (It's the closest thing to authentic I've got... :), but on the other hand, again, how rare are the Heath terminals? Assuming I ever get all of these things, the last question would be: Would anybody be willing to make a copy of HDOS? Otherwise is there a possibility I can download it from somewhere and actually get it on a disk properly? Another interesting question is this: My H-8 has a strange wire-wrapped breadboard, on top of what appears to be a normal 8080 CPU card. The breadboard contains a Z80 cpu, and plugs into the CPU socket of the 8080 CPU card. Any guesses about this? Might this mean I can run CP/M with some toying around? (Did CP/M ever run on these?) Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

24 years, 6 months

3
2
0 0

Power Series

by root＠diablonet.net

Please see embedded comments. > Well, speak of the devil... and all that. After mentioning yesterday that a > Power Series machine would be nice to have, I found that somebody brought > one home for me. (seriously...) Thats pretty cool.. I've got a bunch of smaller SGI machines including Indigo, Indigo2, and Indy, but nothing larger. I have an entire Crimson boardset, but no chassis for it, alas. > So before I get started here, let me also mention that it would be nice to > have: > > A Symbolics Lisp Machine > A Next Dimension Cube > A PDP-11 in a small rack with blinkenlights and core I'd love to get my hands on a LISP machine someday, too - if anyone ever comes across one thats up for grabs, let me know! I'll "move heaven and earth" to try and pick that up! I've got a PDP 11/34a with core, but its not really a complete system. I really need some sort of disk controller and subsystem for it, and I also need to figure out the pinout for the console terminal connector. I've got a NeXT Cube and a Slab, but the Cube is the original 68030 model and doesn't have the NeXTDimension board. If you're ever interested in a road trip, though, noticing that you're in Illinois, the University of Michigan Property Disposition warehouse had a NeXTDimension Cube laying around about a month ago; $50, I think. I would've picked it up myself, but I was totally out of money at the time. I'd imagine it's stilll there, though. > ... enough of that, though. :) > > So, I now am the proud owner of a Power Series VGX machine. It seems to > have 4 40Mhz CPUs in it, a full compliment of graphics boards, FDDI, and > some extra video I/O boards. That's a relatively higher-end one, then... 4D/340, perhaps? There's a neat site called This Old SGI that talks a lot about getting these old Power Series machines running. You can find it pretty quickly with Google. > It's a deskside type machine, the whole thing fitting in one very large > tower --err... coffee-table :) > > Firstly, this machine is in need of: > > The plastic "skirt" piece for the right side of the chassis. > > The plastic back plate. > > The power-cable. > > Keyboard, monitor, mouse (all of which I can probably get locally... I checked a couple of days ago and there is an original SGI 4D keyboard and mouse set on eBay for not too much... less than $10, I think. I'm not sure how much longer it'll be there, though. I'd probably give up on finding the skins for the machine - I've never really seen them turn up by themselves, and usually, MACHINES that turn up are missing pieces of them. The power cable's probably going to have to be a homemade job, too, as I don't see them turn up very often, but from what I gather, they shouldn't be too hard to assemble. > (that's it.. I think I have the entire machine otherwise) > > Does anyone know where I can get these, or (in the case of the power-cord, > for instance) parts to make them? I've heard that you can find the connectors for the power cord at hardware stores, but I can't confirm that myself. > Any warnings/information/antic dotes for these machines? > I do intend to use the thing. I also intend to use it at home. It appears > to require 20 Amp service, though, and I have no good 20 Amp outlet within > reach. I do have some 20 Amp and a couple 30 Amp fuses (Yes, fuses. I > intend to replace the one I hook this to with a mini-breaker) in the box, > which I intend to trace before I decide where to plug it in. It may be that > I'll contract somebody to run a 20 Amp outlet for this machine. (Never > having done AC wiring work on my own, I feel that I don't want to start by > wiring an outlet for this beast) Otherwise, the plan will be to plug it > into a circuit with a highly rated fuse on it, and unplug everything else. > Any holes in this plan? The breaker on the power-supply is rated 16 Amps, > btw. I have no idea how much pull to expect from a monitor -- anyone know > whether I can safely use both on the same circuit? That would simplify > things. > > I believe a best option is to have somebody run a line up from the > washer/dryer hookups in the basement. Those are hooked to 30-amp fuses > already and have cutoff switches. As long as nobody does laundry while the > machine's running, then, it would be fine. :) > > Lastly, even before I get this thing plugged in, I'd like to inventory it, > and check it for health. What should I look for? I'd DEFINITELY suggest taking a look at the power supply (and fuse) before you begin. Make sure the power transistors and caps are in good order. I say this because the power supplies on these machines are getting a little old and they are known for being somewhat iffy. I've had a similar supply (on a SGI Crimson machine) flame out on me before - it makes a very spectacular noise! That, incidentally, is where the Crimson boardset came from... I wish I would have saved the chassis from the Dumpster, too (this was at work when we had picked up an old Crimson from a customer as scrap once and were messing around with it). Ah, well. I'm still trying to find another SGI VME machine to this day. Maybe an Onyx or something :) > Regards, > > Chris > > Christopher Smith, Perl Developer > Amdocs - Champaign, IL > > /usr/bin/perl -e ' > print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); Kind regards, Sean Caron scaron(a)engin.umich.edu root(a)diablonet.net

24 years, 6 months

2
1
0 0

Power Series

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Netdiablo [mailto:root@diablonet.net] > Thats pretty cool.. I've got a bunch of smaller SGI machines including > Indigo, > Indigo2, and Indy, but nothing larger. I have an entire Crimson > boardset, but > no chassis for it, alas. I also have an Indigo2 which I use on a regular basis. > I've got a NeXT Cube and a Slab, but the Cube is the original 68030 > model > and doesn't have the NeXTDimension board. If you're ever > interested in a > road trip, though, noticing that you're in Illinois, the University of > Michigan > Property Disposition warehouse had a NeXTDimension Cube laying around > about a month ago; $50, I think. I would've picked it up myself, but I > was > totally out of money at the time. I'd imagine it's stilll > there, though. I'd be interested in a road trip, but unfortunately not capable of a road trip. (no road-worthy vehicle...) > That's a relatively higher-end one, then... 4D/340, perhaps? There's a > neat > site called This Old SGI that talks a lot about getting these > old Power > Series > machines running. You can find it pretty quickly with Google. I've been reading it. Mine is actually a 4D/440, I think. (Even better. :) > I checked a couple of days ago and there is an original SGI > 4D keyboard > and mouse set on eBay for not too much... less than $10, I think. I'm > not > sure how much longer it'll be there, though. If that's the going price, though, it isn't bad. > I'd probably give up on finding the skins for the machine - I've never > really seen them turn up by themselves, and usually, MACHINES that > turn up are missing pieces of them. The power cable's probably going > to have to be a homemade job, too, as I don't see them turn up very > often, but from what I gather, they shouldn't be too hard to assemble. Three (very thick) wires. :) > I've heard that you can find the connectors for the power cord at > hardware > stores, but I can't confirm that myself. That will be the first place I look, if I can't find the original. > I'd DEFINITELY suggest taking a look at the power supply (and fuse) > before > you begin. Make sure the power transistors and caps are in > good order. I > say > this because the power supplies on these machines are getting a little > old and > they are known for being somewhat iffy. I've had a similar > supply (on a > SGI > Crimson machine) flame out on me before - it makes a very spectacular > noise! Ouch. Care to help me figure out how? I do have a multimeter (should be all I need for that part, right?) or two, but haven't done much work with it, and not for a while. :) > That, incidentally, is where the Crimson boardset came > from... I wish I > would > have saved the chassis from the Dumpster, too (this was at > work when we > had > picked up an old Crimson from a customer as scrap once and > were messing > around with it). Ah, well. I'm still trying to find another SGI VME > machine to > this day. Maybe an Onyx or something :) Deskside Onyx 1s are relatively reasonable in price now. Same chassis. Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

24 years, 6 months

1
0
0 0

Hardest to Find Classic Computers (SX64)

by CLeyson＠aol.com

Tony Duell wrote: > Has anybody ever read that chip out and recreated the logic equations? It > shouldn't be hard to do.... Should be easy since it doesn't contain any registers and feedback terms. I don't know how you'd get the fuse map without using a programmer, I'd just read it like RAM and figure out the terms that way. > Programming the thing is a pain -- you need about 4 different programming > voltages. I do have the programming algorithm somewhere and one day I > should probably have a go at making a programmer... I'd use a small CPLD like a Xilinx XC95XX device. They are 5V and easy to program. Anybody used Xilinx XC4010E FPGA's ? and, could I fit a 6502 into one ? Chris Programming the thing is a pain -- you need about 4 different programming voltages. I do have the programming algorithm somewhere and one day I should probably have a go at making a programmer...

24 years, 6 months

2
1
0 0

"Geeks" and licensing

by steven_j_robertson＠hotmail.com

> >The book by Brooks {The Mythical Man Month)should be mandatory reading for >every software man. It is fun too. >I have very good memories from projects where you could first build a >useful >small part of the system. The client could then update his requirements >and >you could get all the bugs out and when all was stable you would build the >next part of the system. The client has a useful system very early in the >project and because you work together with the client (the user) in an >early >stage of the project, errors in the specification and the programs never >last long. Cost control is also facilitated. You have a satisfied customer >most of the time during development and very much so in the end. This was >for projects for up to 1.000.000 lines of code. > IMHO, Steve McConnell's "Code Complete" should be required knowledge for all software engineers. Prototyping is certainly a valuable tool for developing complex applications. However, one must remember that the prototype is a means to the end and not the final product. Once the application is defined, you should throw away the prototype and build the system from scratch using the knowledge gained from the prototype. By doing that, you'll have complete requirements, a more efficient design, and happy customers. In real life, it's pretty tough to convince management that you should start all over. The typical reaction is to put the prototype in a box and sell as is :-( SteveRob _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.

24 years, 6 months

11
11
0 0

Nile 150

by pechter＠ureach.com

---- On Wed, 19 Dec 2001, Eric Dittman (dittman(a)dittman.net) wrote: > At the place I picked up my 9-track tape drive they had a Nile 150 > system with storage unit that they're looking to unload. I don't > know anything about the system (nor did they, other than the guy > telling me about the system said it has MIPS R4x00 CPUs). > -- > Eric Dittman > dittman(a)dittman.net > Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ Boy, I never worked on the Nile's but I did on the MIS-S Pyramid DC/OSx boxes. Slick stuff. As an old DEC and Pyramid guy I was amazed how they had to kludge clustering into Unix boxes and how Sun took most of the stuff they're doing from Pyramid's early work in the area. Bill Pechter bpechter(a)monmouth.com

24 years, 6 months

1
0
0 0

M8650 async board problem

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

Now I'm really puzzled. After spending the evening playing with my M8650 serial board, and armed with the pinouts this time, I still have an interrupt problem. The fault is that the usual operations don't disable the interrupt from the board. As far as I can see from the PDP-8/E Maintenance Manual, pressing CLEAR on the panel should enable the interrupts, while issuing a KIE instruction with AC11 = 0 should disable them. Have I understood this correctly? Looks like it does the reverse (I ought to have checked that KIE with AC11=1 disables it on this board, but I forgot, and it's too cold and late to go back to the workshop right now. I'll do it tomorrow). The fault must have been noticed at some time in the past, as someone has cut the trace to CP1 (INT RQST L output to the bus). If I bridge the cut, the interrupts remain on all the time, which I suspect is why I can't get FOCAL to run. At this point I should mention that my M8650 isn't labelled as a -YA version, though it has the 19.66MHz crystal and the jumpers to run at 300 baud. It has several very neat modifications made with green wire-wrap wire, tacked down in the manner of DEC ECOs, but nothing that looks like it alters the interrupt flipflop operation. The board etch says "M8650 D", "ASYNCHRONOUS DATA CONTROL", "PCC 3874" and it has "441E" stamped on one of the magenta handles. According to the Maintenance Manual, INIT H is buffered and inverted, and fed to the SET input of the flipflop (which is a 7474). Well, on mine it's fed to the CLR input. However, according to the MM, the "1" output (which I'd call the Q output, pin 9) enables interrupts if high, and is available at CB1, the test point. On mine, pin 8 (not-Q) is connected to CB1 and used to enable interrupts by driving one side of E33. So far so good, if a little surprising. But DATA 11 is fed to the D input as per the MM (buffered and gated with I/O PAUSE L but not inverted). So KIE with AC11 = 0 clears the flipflop, which sets not-Q, which enables interrupts. This is not what the diagnostics expect, and predictably, they fail, halting at the location that means the interrupt is not turning off when it should. BTW, I assume that a high level on DATA 11 corresponds to a logic '1'. Should I just swap the connections to the SET and CLR, and Q and not-Q on the 7474? Or am I missing something? -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

24 years, 6 months

2
1
0 0

Fwd: Re: pdp-11/34 for rescue

by jhellige＠earthlink.net

Here's more information regarding the PDP-11/34 that I posted last night. Again, please reply to the poster. Jeff >Status: U >To: Jeff Hellige <jhellige(a)earthlink.net> >From: day-o(a)cavtel.net >Subject: Re: pdp-11/34 for rescue >Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 13:38:24 GMT > >Jeff, > Thanks for the quick response. It's located in Hampton, Virginia and >contained in a logoed model H960 cabinet with an 861c power supply and 7 >disks of questionable worth. > >Owen Day > > > >--------------------------------------------- >This message was sent using Cavalier Telephone WebMail. >http://www.cavtel.net -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757

24 years, 6 months

1
1
0 0

Heath h-8

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Bob Brown [mailto:bbrown@harper.cc.il.us] > Where is this h8 web site? I saved an H8 from the landfill > a while back.. > just a system, no peripherasls...seems to work, but I don't > know what to do > with it..no documentation at all. The one I've found is: http://people.ne.mediaone.net/davidwallace2000/ Click on the heathkit logo... Also he has a link to another H-8 emulator for Macintosh. At any rate, it looks like a fairly simple machine to me. My story is the same as yours. It was brought to me because one of the people at the scrapyard thought I might like to have it. Anyway, the console interface is remarkably intuitive. You can use the keypad to view or set memory addresses/registers in octal. One could just key a program in 8080 machine language, set the program counter and hit "go." The system would then do as you'd told it. If only the computers most people use today were that flexible and user-friendly. Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

24 years, 6 months

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Speaking of PS/2s...

by doc＠mdrconsult.com

Hi, all. I had sort of gotten the impression that PCs don't count on this list. I have a 5870-121 that I snarked recently, with 4 megs of RAM and a 120M ESDI drive. I'm wondering what I want to put on it as OS. I have plenty of Linux/NetBSD critters. I was thinking OS/2, but I threw v3.0 Warp on Saturday night, but it's slow as dirt with 4 megs. Oh, yeah. It had the original reference disk in the floppy drive. I think that's really why I bought it. I also have a Model 25 386dx/16 which is one of my favorites. It had a token-ring ISA adapter, as well as an 8-bit ethernet adapter I can't ID, no hard-drive, and was set up to netboot. I finally found the J-leg 387 for it, stuck in a 500m drive with EZ-drive, and run PC-DOS & Lemmings, mostly. Main questions are, how uncommon are they (I know how cool they are), is either one worth anything, and is there a contemporary Unix that'll run on the model 70? Um, that's actually available I mean. All I need is another Ultrix quest. Corollary questions: I mentioned earlier that I've found PS/2 adapters in 7012 series RS/6ks. I still have 'em. The 8514/A with the 512k daughterboard is recognized in the model 70 by the reference utility, but Warp pukes on it, and insists on 640x480x16 VGA settings. Did I miss something? Do I need to "copy the options disk" even though Setup already sees it? And, I have the Orchid board with the oddball video output. Are there cables for that? Will it drive a standard multi-sync display? Is it worth messing with? It's so nice to have real brains to pick. Doc

24 years, 6 months

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Rainbow 100+ available.

by mtapley＠swri.edu

Hey, all you prospective Rainbow owners need to check comp.sys.dec.micro ASAP. Someone trying to get rid of a RB100+, with a *hard drive*, VR241 color monitor, LK201, and LA-50 printer. I can help with docs and software. - Mark

24 years, 6 months

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MITS 2SIO serial chip?

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

From: Ben Franchuk <bfranchuk(a)jetnet.ab.ca> >One real problem with the Z80 is that a there is a lot of >unused/undefined >instructions because of the complex instruction set, that have been >decoded >and used in software. This has a impact if you are not using a real chip >but a emulator of some sort. Most are either redundant or no-ops, those at are useful most good z80 emulators have them as they are copied in competitors z80s. Allison

24 years, 6 months

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MITS 2SIO serial chip?

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

None of that means much. At the same sped which one will do a long list of benchmarks faster is the only one that counts in the speed derby and which one is cheapest to implement for the specific case is likely number one. Allison -----Original Message----- From: Richard Erlacher <edick(a)idcomm.com> To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> Date: Thursday, December 20, 2001 4:21 AM Subject: Re: MITS 2SIO serial chip? >If you run a 20 MHz Z80 against a 20 MHz 6502, you'll find the 6502 performs WAY >(3x-5x) faster than the Z80. It's difficult to base a comparison on clock rate >alone. All 6502 memory cycles take 1 clock tick. Z80 memory cycles, aside from >M1, take 3 clock ticks, with no wait states in use. If you run the 6502 at a >rate that fully utilizes the memory bandwidth at a rate such that the Z80 can >perform an M1 in the same amount of time, without wait states, the 6502 will >always be faster, because it's running faster. The Z80 uses 1-1/2 clock ticks >to execute its instruction fetch. If that's to be memory access window for each >processor, and you run them both from static memory, and you allow minimal >recovery time, e.g. use 10-15 ns memory, (just for the comparison) then you can >use a 20 MHz Z80 and a 20 (actually 14) MHz 6502, and clock the 6502 with a 25ns >low, 75ns high clock, and drive the Z80 with a square 20 MHz. That will be a 10 >MHz clock for the 6502 and a 20 MHz clock for the Z80. I'd submit that the 6502 >will still run rings around the Z80, since it is still going to be cycling >memory at an average of 200 ns per cycle, while the 6502 does it a 100 ns rate. > >Surely a better comparison can be arranged. > >Dick > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "ajp166" <ajp166(a)bellatlantic.net> >To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> >Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 4:46 PM >Subject: Re: MITS 2SIO serial chip? > > >> >Ben Franchuk <bfranchuk(a)jetnet.ab.ca>: >> > >> >> what is the faster CPU -- A 6502 or Z80 style processor like >> >> the rabbit. >> >> >> Depends... >> >> For the same instruction execution rate (ignores clocks and cycles) >> the z80 is likely faster. However... if you have a 20mhz 6502 and >> a 10mhz z80 it gets muddier with the 6502 being the faster. And >> if you know one better than the other you can certainly exploit it >> all the more. In the end it's not which one does a task faster, it's >> what one you can code the task for faster. >> >> Sorta like asking apples or oranges. >> >> Allison >> >> >> > >

24 years, 6 months

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Nile 150

by DAW＠yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu

! From: Chris Kennedy [mailto:chris@mainecoon.com] ! ! ! David Woyciesjes wrote: ! ! > How big is this thing? And no ideas as to what it is? ! ! It's a Pyramid SMP Unix box from around '96. Runs Simix, a ! SVR4-derived Unix. Typically used as big-ass (as in ! terabyte range) database servers. ! ! There may be a Linux port for the architecture, but ! I'm too lazy to check. ! ! Size clearly depends on configuration, but "not small" ! would be a good guess. ! ! Anyone know where this jewel is located? ! ! Cheerz, ! Chris. I must say, depending on location, I am definitely interested... --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818

24 years, 6 months

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C64 vs. Spectrum (was Re: Hardest to Find Classic Computers (SX64))

by acme_ent＠bellsouth.net

> From: Cameron Kaiser <spectre(a)stockholm.ptloma.edu> > Actually, there is some resentment of Commodores in some quarters. Besides > the usually friendly rivalry between Spectrum and 64 owners, I've encountered > some real vitriol when I bring up 64s to certain other classic computer > groups who shall currently remain nameless. Don't go near comp.sys.sinclair. "Commode" users get slammed there on a regular basis -- and hard. > I suppose their justification is > that the C64 crammed their system out of the market, and as a Mac user, I > do have *some* sympathy :-), but still ... The general opinion seems to be that the C64 folks stole the best games >from the Spec, and cut price to run Sinclair out of the market. Glen 0/0

24 years, 6 months

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DEC bus driver/receiver chips

by djg＠drs-esg.com

Threads on DEC chip crosses http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&threadm=lC_46.724%24Lr4.186106%40news… http://groups.google.com/groups?q=97401+pdp&hl=en&rnum=2&selm=1992Nov17.041… I have scanned my KL8E print set (M8650) (and a bunch of other common 8/E boards I didn't have online). http://www.pdp8.net/pdp8cgi/query_docs/view.pl?id=262 If people are looking for PDP-8 documentation feel free to ask me. David Gesswein http://www.pdp8.net/ -- Run an old computer with blinkenlights.

24 years, 6 months

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OS/2

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

Hey folks, would anyone here be able to get me disk images for OS/2 release 3 or 4? Thanks, -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf

24 years, 6 months

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C64 vs. Spectrum (was Re: Hardest to Find Classic Computers ( SX64))

by Adrian.Graham＠corporatemicrosystems.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Glen Goodwin [mailto:acme_ent@bellsouth.net] > Sent: 20 December 2001 05:33 > To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org > Subject: C64 vs. Spectrum (was Re: Hardest to Find Classic Computers > (SX64)) > > Don't go near comp.sys.sinclair. "Commode" users get slammed > there on a > regular basis -- and hard. Conversely, don't go near any of the cbm newsgroups either; sometimes the arguments plunge to new depths of childishness, and more often than not the cbm-ers get their internet buddies to troll c.s.s till people start leaving. > The general opinion seems to be that the C64 folks stole the > best games > from the Spec, and cut price to run Sinclair out of the market. For me the C64 was too expensive when I was Speccy buying, and I only got *that* because I sold my ZX81. I'm not gonna say any more - might start another flamewar :) -- Adrian Graham, Corporate Microsystems Ltd e: adrian.graham(a)corporatemicrosystems.com w: www.corporatemicrosystems.com w2: www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Online Computer Museum)

24 years, 6 months

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Hardest to Find Classic Computers (Digital Group)

by Adrian.Graham＠corporatemicrosystems.com

> Dammit - I was offered a Digital Group machine earlier this > year and the only thing that stopped me was the horrendous shipping cost > from the US. > This thing had the (in)famous tape unit attached that > contained either 4 or 6 drives; can't remember. .... > > > >- -- > >Adrian Graham, Corporate Microsystems Ltd > > Ulp ... Adrian, what part of the US? Any idea what became of > the machine > eventually New York I think; I've still got all the correspondance on my rotting Winduhs partition at home that I *must* get off before it completely implodes. Again. The guy that had it wanted it to go to a good home so I doubt he'll have skipped it. Nice looking machine too; his home-made tape drive enclosure was a beaut. I'll try and check when I get home tonight, but it's the office xmas 'do' >from 4pm so remembering things might be a bit fraught :) -- Adrian Graham, Corporate Microsystems Ltd e: adrian.graham(a)corporatemicrosystems.com w: www.corporatemicrosystems.com w2: www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Online Computer Museum)

24 years, 6 months

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Off-Topic Toys

by alan.pearson＠cramer.com

> On Tue, 18 Dec 2001, Zane H. Healy wrote: > OTOH, if I could afford $10-40K I'd be very tempted to call Compaq up and > buy a DS20 or ES40 to run VMS on. Hang on for 10 years then you can get one for $75 ;-)

24 years, 6 months

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Speaking of PS/2s...

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

I have a PS2 50Z I use as I have an HP scanner and interface for it. Nice machine though at 1mb it's kinda tight for memory even by 286 standards. The upside is I have OS/2 V3 warp for it. Allison

24 years, 6 months

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NCR 386/486 UNIX - Anyone remember this?

by msell＠ontimesupport.com

Guys, My wife recently got a job at a bridal retail chain that uses NCR 386/486 UNIX for the POS terminals and financial matters relating to the operation of the store. It's running on what appears to be an NCR 386 (or 486?) with a tape backup, and services four WYSE terminals and a printer. Seems to be a standard setup for the stores in this chain. There is also a WYSE CE terminal connected via ADSL to a Citrix server - but that is naturally a piece of sh*t. Always crashing. Situation normal for Windows. Just curious if anyone here has had experience with this flavor of UNIX. I used to work at Radio Shack and at the time we ran the entire store from a 386 running XENIX. It handled *EVERYTHING*. Performance of the whole system was quite impressive. This NCR system seems to be rock solid and has decent performance. Just curious. It's neat to see something other than Windows "in the wild". - Matt Matthew Sell Programmer On Time Support, Inc. www.ontimesupport.com (281) 296-6066 Join the Metrology Software discussion group METLIST! http://www.ontimesupport.com/cgi-bin/mojo/mojo.cgi "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er...

24 years, 6 months

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OS/2

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 12/19/01 4:58:27 PM Eastern Standard Time, rschaefe(a)gcfn.org writes: << > On Tue, 18 Dec 2001, bill pointon wrote: > > > hi -- im new to this list but an old fan of os2 -- i would love the warp > > server if you could part with it or copy it -- what would you want in > > return ? ------- billp > > Hmmm, your firstborn? > Nah, probably just something cool someday. If you have an upload site, > there's not even postage. Did I mention it's the smp version? Did you ever find a site? I might be able to swing something, if I can get a copy too... ^_^ > > Doc >> agreed, would be cool to get a copy. I have smp version of 2.1 but want something newer. Warp server is basically version 3 with the server goodies added.

24 years, 6 months

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MS-DOS 6.22 Disk Image

by jss＠subatomix.com

I need an image of the 4th MS-DOS 6.22 3.5" disk, the 'extra program' disk. My disk seems to have been lost while moving things around in my house. TIA. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss(a)subatomix.com

24 years, 6 months

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Honkey

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> > Chris - Now, I'm a honkey (now what's the origin of that?) > > just like you... > > The first time I heard the term "honkey" was on "The Jeffersons"... a > favorite *classic* tv show... :) Then there's ofey/ofay... Oh, yeah, down 'Bama way, I believe the term is "frecklebelly".... why? Ever notice how bubba's t-shirts sometimes wear so thin around the belly? It's cognate to "redneck"... -dq

24 years, 6 months

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URL for "The Wench Bench"

by bills＠adrenaline.com

Here's a web page that describes the proximity fuze development effort, including mention of "The Wench Bench". http://www.jhu.edu/~jhumag/0400web/10.html

24 years, 6 months

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No subject

by zachary＠attdallas.com

Skipped content of type multipart/alternative

24 years, 6 months

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No subject

by zachary＠attdallas.com

Skipped content of type multipart/alternative

24 years, 6 months

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No subject

by zachary＠attdallas.com

Skipped content of type multipart/alternative

24 years, 6 months

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hp 97 card reader

by vcf＠vintage.org

Can someone help Dan with his request? Please reply directly to Dan. Reply-to: <dpolla(a)utanet.at> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 17:00:48 +0100 From: Dan Polla <dpolla(a)utanet.at> To: vcf(a)vintage.org Subject: hp 97 card reader Good evening gentlemen, I have to ressemble the HP 97cardreader - and have all (?) small parts in a little box; can anyone send me a pic of the downside of the readers little circiutboard? Thanks a lot! Dan -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *

24 years, 6 months

2
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DEC bus driver/receiver chips

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Dec 19, 1:02, Tony Duell wrote: > > DEC 380 bus receiver > Quad NOR gate Bus Receiver > > DEC 97401 bus receiver > > Are you sure that's not a driver? It possibly is. > > DEC 384 (or DEC 5384, which I think is the same) bus driver > > As far as I can see, this is the non-inverting (OR) equivalent to the 380 Thanks -- that's most helpful. > FWIW, my 8/e printset includes the M8650. It uses the above chips (and > numbers the pins on the schematic). It also confirms that the 380 and 384 > are receivers and the 97401 is a driver. How many sheets are in the set? I wonder if you could copy it. I know you don't have regular access to a copier, and not to an A3 copier, but the schematic in sections would be useful. But first, I'll see how far I get now I know the pinouts. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

24 years, 6 months

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Hardest to Find Classic Computers (SX64)

by CLeyson＠aol.com

Cameron Kaiser wrote: > Awwww, c'mon. Wizball brings a smile to everyone's face. One of the best games of all time. I never really got into the C64, I was too busy building disk drive controller boards for the Atari or trying to get fig forth to run. Sad but true :-( The C64 was a really neat machine but had a few hardware reliability problems. The PAL and the graphics chip were prone to early failure. At one time I used to fix two or three machines a week for a friend who owned a TV repair shop. He bought scrap machines from high street dealers and I would end up having to fix them. However, some of the games for these machines were works of genius. I really admire the people who had to write the software, mostly in assembler, and too impossible deadlines. The same could be said for the "speccy". Not exactly reliable but for three chips, Z80, current injection logic ASIC, sound and some DRAM - WOW ! The cassette interface could be a problem but when faced with the prospect of having to rebuild DC100 tapes, ( including drilling holes in the tape ), and replacing the drive wheel in an HP tape drive - I'd go for the "speccy". Best Regards Chris Leyson

24 years, 6 months

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Nile 150

by dittman＠dittman.net

At the place I picked up my 9-track tape drive they had a Nile 150 system with storage unit that they're looking to unload. I don't know anything about the system (nor did they, other than the guy telling me about the system said it has MIPS R4x00 CPUs). -- Eric Dittman dittman(a)dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/

24 years, 6 months

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Hardest to Find Classic Computers (Digital Group)

by mtapley＠swri.edu

Ulp ... Adrian, what part of the US? Any idea what became of the machine eventually? - Mark >Dammit - I was offered a Digital Group machine earlier this year and the >only thing that stopped me was the horrendous shipping cost from the US. >This thing had the (in)famous tape unit attached that contained either 4 or >6 drives; can't remember. .... > >- -- >Adrian Graham, Corporate Microsystems Ltd

24 years, 6 months

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More Power Series

by csmith＠amdocs.com

Hi again, I neglected to mention in my last power series post the odd video connectors on this thing: 1 analog video in/out breakout plug. (The same as the plug for the Galileo breakout, I believe) 2 "Digital video out" plugs. (They look like 25-pin or so parallel plugs, female) 7 BNCs. I assume 4 of them are the R, G, B, and S for the monitor. The others are labeled "Alpha," and are also red, green, and blue. What do I do with them? :) Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

24 years, 6 months

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Off-Topic Toys

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> On Tue, 18 Dec 2001, Doc wrote: > > > On Tue, 18 Dec 2001, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > > > > Nice system! We're using a few at work. Not what I would call a hobbyist > > > system though. > > > > Me neither, but I'd have never thought of S/390s as toys either.... > > Hehehehehehe... No, No, Sridhar, you've got the maniacal laugh all wrong, it's "Bwa-ha-ha!" ;) -dq

24 years, 6 months

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[OT] SynOptics 810M PowerSupply problems

by sipke＠wxs.nl

Hi Folks, Propably not yet 10y old so slightly OT. yet ..... I got a SynOptics 810M ethernethub about 9 month ago and it served me fine till two weeks back. When I came home all the power was down because the groundleak protection was triggerd. Eventually it turned out to be the powersupply of this hub that went bad on me. I want to replace it with another psu but I can't find any info on the way the ps2-like powerplug is wired. The 810M needs +5V +12V -12V 0V and ground connections. Does anyone, familiar with this device, have a clue ??? Sipke de Wal ---------------------------------------------------- http://xgistor.ath.cx ----------------------------------------------------

24 years, 6 months

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MITS 2SIO serial chip?

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

From: Ben Franchuk <bfranchuk(a)jetnet.ab.ca> >True. The only real trick I used was on reset. This would clear >the instruction register and state counter to zero. I would then Reset for the approach I took was simple...clear the ucode latchs. the reset(restart) addres in ucode was 000h. >use that to fetch the first instruction. All instructions would >start from state 2. IRQ was jam on the bus the IRQ instruction. >This has changed slightly as of today since I did add a irq input >and made reset now load a octal bootstrap. IRQ was simple too.. the first microinstruction for the normal machine cycle was opcode fetch... unless the IRQ FF was set then the microaddress loaded was interrupt action address rather than the mapped opcode. That meant the interrupt system was synchronized to instruction fetch and also the actions taken were what ever ucode dictated. IRQ and CALL were the same basic ucode obviously. Other things I played with is a JSR (pdp-8 style) and CALL(stack style like z80 and others). Both had advantages but the JSR style was easier to make fast in ucode{fewer microwords}. >I have looked a microcode but not having a PROM burner kept me from >doing anything with it. I found I spent more time writing software >and emulators than thinking about hardware in great detail. >Most of the fixing of bent opcodes have been done before I did the >hardware but I did make a few changes in the exact opcode order. At the time I did it (1981ish) the emulator would have to run on either CP/M z80, RT-11(PDP-11) or my fingers. Part of the opcode thing was design, test, then play what if. At that time I used 350ns 2732s as I had them and could easily burn them, not fast but, easy to use. Also all the ucode for lack of a compiler was hand written. The approach was modular, simple and as much of the circuits repetitive to make wiring (wire wrap) easy to do and troubleshoot. For example the microstate machine was tested with one 2732, one LS273, one 74153 and a debounced pushbutton. That allowed me to investigate things like micro jumps, looping and startup. From there it was pretty easy to add more bits to control other logic like RAM, ALU and bus traffic latches. Using 2901s with that microcontroller was a fairly simple, expandable and managable machine of moderate speed by 1981 standards. Still it was fairly large and ate power! One for the experimental machines tried with that hardware was a 1802 like register based cpu with 16 registers like 1802 but the ALU and data paths were also 16bits. Even simple changes like that have interesting effects on in instruction sets and addressing modes. For example the 1802 does not have instructions for loading or storing the 16bit register content, you have to move bytes through the Accumulator due to 8bit busses (even internal). Once you have a 16bit path other things make more sense(or less!). Allison

24 years, 6 months

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OT: GatorStar GX-R....

by DAW＠yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu

Yes, this box is not quite old enough, but it is an AppleTalk & LocalTalk Router. The protocols probably do classify as "Classic". Anyway, Cayman.com doesn't have docs online anymore for this, and I'm gonna try calling/e-mailing them right after this is sent. Does anyone else have a user's guide, and/or reference guide for this? So far Google is turning up only 'How-To' for setting it up. I'd like to get my hans on the paper guides that shipped with it. At least a copy, or something... --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818

24 years, 6 months

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