- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by Robert_Feldman＠jdedwards.com

I've located 35 disks. Do you want them? -----Original Message----- From: Golemancd(a)aol.com [mailto:Golemancd@aol.com] Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2001 6:07 PM To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org Subject: 720k floppy anyone know where i can find some 720k floppies thanks Joee

24 years, 6 months

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Old issues of MacWeek

by vcf＠vintage.org

Does anyone have old issues of MacWeek they'd like to get rid of? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *

24 years, 6 months

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I'm back!!!!

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On December 23, Ernest wrote: > Well, there were suddenly 37 active connections all trying to get it. Ouch. > No wonder it bombed on you. Keep trying if you get a server busy error. The > activity should slow down. > > Comments on the site, anyone? Cool stuff! -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf

24 years, 6 months

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Happy Holidays!

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On December 26, Jochen Kunz wrote: > > Of course I enjoy doing that, which is why I was doing it. But it's > > also what I do most of the other days in the year, so it's hardly a > > holiday ;-) > May I call you a geek? ;-) > > BTW: I earn my mony as a programmer and what do I do for my private > enjoinment this days: I am porting (OK, trying to port) pdksh-5.2.14 to > 2.11BSD on my PDP11/73... ;-) Woohoo! And WHO is a geek here? ;) -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf

24 years, 6 months

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FW: VAX 3900 Free to Good Home

by DAW＠yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu

I'm sure someone here would want this... Subject: VAX 3900 Free to Good Home Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2001 22:40:56 -0500 From: Chuck McCrobie <mccrobie(a)cablespeed.com> Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Newsgroups: comp.os.vms, comp.sys.dec As a testament to Digitial engineering, I have a VAX 3900 that's been sitting in my garage for 3 1/2 years that just booted up! CONDITIONS: Machine must be picked up in its entirety - ALL OR NOTHING Local pickup only - I don't want to ship this beast LOCATION: Laurel, MD 20724 You will need a large sedan, pickup, or similar vehicle. The external frame has been modified to come apart, so loading it will be easy. PARTICULARS: VAX 3900 - CPU - (Big cabinet) KA655-AA (M7625-AA) 32 MB RAM - MEMORY - MS650-BA (M7622-A) DESQA-SA - Ethernet - (M3127-PA) CXY08-M - 8 line Terminal controller - (M3119-YA) USD 1108 QBUS->SCSI Controller - in passthrough mode * This is a NON-DISCONNECTING controller - yes, I have the manual! TQK70 - tape controller - (M7559-00) * DRIVE IS _BROKEN_ KDA50 - disk controller - (M7164-00 & M7165-00) CMD 200 TM QBUS->SCSI Controller * Yes, I have the manual RA90 Drive (1.2GB) - Big and slow, but after 3 1/2 years idle time, still works TK70 - tape drive - BROKEN NOTES: The CMD 200 TM recognized a newer SCSI CD-ROM and booted VMS 7.1 install kit. Machine currently boots VMS 5.5-2. CXY08 and DESQA have NOT been tested, but were working. --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818

24 years, 6 months

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FW: VAX 3900 Free to Good Home

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

*sigh*, this has to happen a month and a half after I move out of Laurel... :-( -Dave On December 26, David Woyciesjes wrote: > I'm sure someone here would want this... > > Subject: VAX 3900 Free to Good Home > Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2001 22:40:56 -0500 > From: Chuck McCrobie <mccrobie(a)cablespeed.com> > Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com > Newsgroups: comp.os.vms, comp.sys.dec > > As a testament to Digitial engineering, I have a VAX 3900 that's been > sitting in my garage for 3 1/2 years that just booted up! > > CONDITIONS: > > Machine must be picked up in its entirety - ALL OR NOTHING > Local pickup only - I don't want to ship this beast > > LOCATION: > > Laurel, MD 20724 > > You will need a large sedan, pickup, or similar vehicle. The external > frame has been modified to come apart, so loading it will be easy. > > PARTICULARS: > > VAX 3900 - CPU - (Big cabinet) KA655-AA (M7625-AA) > 32 MB RAM - MEMORY - MS650-BA (M7622-A) > DESQA-SA - Ethernet - (M3127-PA) > CXY08-M - 8 line Terminal controller - (M3119-YA) > USD 1108 QBUS->SCSI Controller - in passthrough mode > * This is a NON-DISCONNECTING controller - yes, I have the manual! > TQK70 - tape controller - (M7559-00) > * DRIVE IS _BROKEN_ > KDA50 - disk controller - (M7164-00 & M7165-00) > CMD 200 TM QBUS->SCSI Controller > * Yes, I have the manual > RA90 Drive (1.2GB) - Big and slow, but after 3 1/2 years idle time, > still works > TK70 - tape drive - BROKEN > > NOTES: > > The CMD 200 TM recognized a newer SCSI CD-ROM and booted VMS 7.1 install > kit. > > Machine currently boots VMS 5.5-2. > > CXY08 and DESQA have NOT been tested, but were working. > > > --- David A Woyciesjes > --- C & IS Support Specialist > --- Yale University Press > --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu > --- (203) 432-0953 > --- ICQ # - 905818 > -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf

24 years, 6 months

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Wanted DEC VT1200 mouse and cable

by pechter＠bg-tc-ppp1341.monmouth.com

I'm looking for the following. The cable that goes between the DEC VT1200 (looks like an N connector) and their monochrome video monitors like a vt262 and a DEC VSXXX-AA mouse. I've got a working VT1200 minus mouse and video cable. I was going to cobble one up with some RG6 and a BNC connector and an N connector (if that's really an N connector) but I'd really rather find the right cable and spend more time enjoying the toy rather than fixing it. Bill -- d|i|g|i|t|a|l had it THEN. Don't you wish you could still buy it now! bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@ureach.com

24 years, 6 months

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PDP8/A memory problems, what to do?

by gunther＠aurora.regenstrief.org

[For once I did not crosspost and now PDP-8 Lovers list is not working right, so it goes to classiccmp again.] Hi, after dishwashing I reassembled my "new" PDP8/A and it's working again, after David Gesswein hinted me to the programmers console quick reference, I was able to enter my first manually assembled programs and it's indeed working! I must say that I never thought I would ever manually assemble a machine program, but with the PDP8 it's remarkably easy. My first PDP-8 program is a memory test, and I was glad I did it because I found a problem. My test goes through all memory fields and writes into each cell its address in the field. Then it reads that address out of each field again and so finds problems. I have 3 16k words boards and one 8k word board. Two of the 16k boards are good but both seem to want to play the role of the lower fields 0 to 3. The third 16k board plays the high fields 4 to 7, but it has a systematic error masking out bits 6 and 7. All data X I write into it is read as X AND 7717. The 8k board has a similar bit mask error, it's mask is 6777. Is this a fatal problem or can one fix it by cleaning some contacts or redo some crummy soldering? I assume the core mats are all fine, because they would not just lose a few columns of data bits, right? I also assume that others had to deal with similar issues, because apparently such errors are not uncommon. What's the trick? (I did swap them into various backplane slots, just to make sure it's not just a gap in the data bus lines. ... BTW, does the OMNIBUS need something like grant continuity cards for intermittent empty slots?) thanks for your advice, -Gunther PS, just to show off (and to save this stuff from my hand- written notes) here's my program. It's ugly spaghetti code with quirks because I had to modify it at the console (remember: never start coding without having done your work on paper :-) I now understand much better :-) I'm not sure I have the symbolic assembly language right, I may use some things (like the Z modifier for zero-page addressing) that is not standard but helps me code right. 0020 0000 LOC , 0 TESTED MEMORY LOCATION 0021 0000 FLD , 0 TESTED FIELD NUMBER WRITE LOOP 0200 7200 CLA A = 0 0201 1254 TAD FLDINI A += FLDINI 0202 3021 DCA Z FLD FLD = A; A = 0 0203 1257 TAD LOCINI A += LOCINI 0204 3020 DCA Z LOC LOC = A; A = 0 0205 1020 WRLOOP, TAD Z LOC A += LOC 0206 3420 DCA IZ LOC *LOC = A; A = 0 0207 2020 ISZ Z LOC IF(++LOC == 0) 0210 5205 JMP WRLOOP ELSE GOTO WRLOOP 0211 4234 IFRET, JMS INCFLD THEN A = INCFLD() 0212 7450 SNA IF(A != 0) 0213 5205 JMP WRLOOP ELSE GOTO WRLOOP /*FALLTHROUGH*/ READ/CHECK LOOP 0214 7200 CLA A = 0 0215 1254 TAD FLDINI A += FLDINI 0216 3021 DCA Z FLD FLD = A; A = 0 0217 1257 TAD LOCINI A += LOCINI 0220 3020 DCA Z LOC LOC = A; A = 0 0221 1020 RDLOOP, TAD Z LOC A += LOC 0222 7041 CIA A = -A 0223 1420 TAD IZ LOC A += *LOC 0224 7440 SZA IF(A != 0) 0225 7402 ERROR, HLT ELSE HALT 0226 2020 ISZ Z LOC THEN IF(++LOC == 0) 0227 5221 JMP RDLOOP ELSE GOTO RDLOOP 0230 4234 JMS INCFLD THEN A = INCFLD() 0231 7450 SNA IF(A != 0) 0232 5221 JMP RDLOOP ELSE GOTO RDLOOP 0233 7402 OK, HLT THEN HALT INCREASE DATA FIELD SUBROUTINE returns 0 if success resets field to 0 and returns -1 if overflow 0234 0000 INCFLD, 0 0235 2021 ISZ Z FLD IF(++FLD == 0) 0236 7300 CLA CLL ELSE { A = 0; L = 0 } 0237 1021 TAD Z FLD THEN A += FLD 0240 7047 CIA A = -A 0241 1255 TAD FLDMAX A += FLDMAX 0242 7510 SPA IF(A >= 0) 0243 5261 JMP RSTFLD ELSE GOTO RSTFLD 0244 7300 CLA CLL THEN { A = 0; L = 0 } 0245 1021 TAD Z FLD A += FLD 0246 7006 RAL 2 A <<= 2 0247 7004 RAL A <<= 1 0250 1260 TAD CDFTMP A += CDFTMP 0251 3252 DCA CDFDO CDFDO = A; A = 0 0252 0000 CDFDO, 0 0253 5634 JMP I INCFLD RETURN INITIALIZATION VALUES 0254 0000 FLDINI, 0 0255 0007 FLDMAX, 7 0256 0257 0300 LOCINI, 0300 0260 6201 CDFTMP, CDF RESET THE MEMORY FIELD BACK TO 0 assert A == -1 0261 7000 RSTFLD, NOP 0262 1254 TAD FLDINI A += FLDINI 0263 3021 DCA Z FLD FLD = A; A = 0 0264 4234 JMS INCFLD A = INCFLD() 0265 7040 CMA A ~= A 0266 5212 JMP IFRET GOTO IFRET -- Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D. gschadow(a)regenstrief.org Medical Information Scientist Regenstrief Institute for Health Care Adjunct Assistant Professor Indiana University School of Medicine tel:1(317)630-7960 http://aurora.regenstrief.org

24 years, 6 months

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Semi-OT: 32Mb SO-DIMMs available

by erd_6502＠yahoo.com

I thought I'd give folks a chance on these before I took them back. I bought them labelled "SO-DIMMs for older Dell Laptops" - apparently, my laptop is too old. What I have in my Latitude LM are what I think of as SO-DIMMs - 36-pins, double-sided, no keying groove. What I have appears to be for a Latitude CP machine. It _does_ have a keying groove and a lot more pins... more than double. One of these is new in the package, one has been opened (before I got them). The part numbers on the DRAMs is D42S65165G5-A60-7JF. The CDW part number is 118982, the Visiontek part number appears to be 54073.0 If anyone is interested in a pair of 32Mb SO-DIMMs, contact me off-list at ethan_dicks(a)yahoo.com. If there's no interest, I can take them back, but they'll hit me for a 10% restocking fee. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com

24 years, 6 months

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[geeks] IBM RS/6000 7012-3XX

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Doc [mailto:doc@mdrconsult.com] > Either have a key or "mknod /dev/big_screwdriver" and be handy with a > soldering iron. The key not only locks the cabinet, but controls the > boot sequence. You need it. I imagine one could fit a switch in place of the keylock, if you really want. > Some things you will want to consider. > The 320 & 32h need proprietary serial cables. I can supply pinouts. > They, as well as a few others, also have a proprietary external SCSI > interface. It looks like a 68-pin connector, but it's not. Reminds me of the interface on the MicroVAX 3100 machines, which also looks like a 68-pin connector, and it is(!), but it's a SCSI-1 interface. Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

24 years, 6 months

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I'm back!!!!

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On December 26, Christopher Smith wrote: > > I think this is less of a pro-Linux issue and more of a > > use-the-right-tool-for-the-job issue, which sure as hell ain't Windows > > if you want to put stuff on the web. > > Then again, when is windows the right tool for the job? (Unless you want to > orchestrate a cruel practical joke...) Hmm. It's the right tool if you want to put on a tie, be a "team player", use the word "key" a lot (and not meaning a piece of metal with "XX2247" stamped on it), and pretend to be indespensible while collecting a huge salary for little or no real work. ;) -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf

24 years, 6 months

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I'm back!!!!

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Dave McGuire [mailto:mcguire@neurotica.com] > I think this is less of a pro-Linux issue and more of a > use-the-right-tool-for-the-job issue, which sure as hell ain't Windows > if you want to put stuff on the web. Then again, when is windows the right tool for the job? (Unless you want to orchestrate a cruel practical joke...) Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

24 years, 6 months

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More... Re: VS4000 hardware questions

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: UberTechnoid(a)Home.com [mailto:UberTechnoid@Home.com] > Help does nothing really useful. What I'd like to know for > instance, is > how do I set the vax to do an unattended boot. It has been > stuck at a two > stage boot since before I even got an OS on it. It powers > on, self-tests, > boots to a second-level CLI, I type C for Continue and there we go. Actually that's probably a problem with your default boot options. Those are AFAIK unique depending on the system you're booting, and as such ought to be handled in the O/S documentation. > A prom manual would tell me how to get rid of the second-level cli. See above -- I'm not so sure. :) All else aside, though, you may consider checking the values of all the built-in variables for obvious problems. Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

24 years, 6 months

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More... Re: VS4000 hardware questions

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: UberTechnoid(a)Home.com [mailto:UberTechnoid@Home.com] > Good luck! I can't even find a PROM command manual for the > thing. Come > to mention it, DOES anyone have a prom command listing for > the vs400/60 > and/or the Sparcstation 4/330 (sun4)? I have a Sun SBUS development kit which contains (among other things) a quick-reference card which lists most OpenBoot monitor commands, and a full (realatively large, and I'd rather not copy the whole deal if I can help it. :) forth-like-monitor-language reference manual. As for the VAX, I have no reference, but the 4000s were new enough to support the "help" command. :) Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

24 years, 6 months

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What did you ask "Santa" for this year.... : )

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: James L. Rice [mailto:jrice@texoma.net] > You are lucky. I changed from Wife 1.0 who hated technology and > computers to Wife 2.0 who is an avid user (even if I can't > get her off > M$ products) and not only tolerates my collection but encourages it. > She is the contributer of the second cube as well as the NeXT Color > Printer. The change over from version 1.0 to 2.0 was very expensive > ...in fact so expensive that I would hesitate to do it again. On the other hand, your current wife device seems very well-behaved, so I'd not see why you should change again. ;) It's difficult to find one that will maintain stability with even a nominally normal relationship signal at any rate, and you're better off sticking with what works. It helps, of course, if you can handle the PayAttentionToME signals in real-time. Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

24 years, 6 months

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PDP11

by r_beaudry＠hotmail.com

Did anyone snag this?? (see below...). I haven't caught up on my digest reading .... This is about 1/2 hour from me, straight shot down Route 2. My wife would divorce me if I took it, but I'd LOVE to help rescue it for someone else... And I own a pickup w/ a cover... Rich B. ----------------------------- From: "Thomas R. Fitch" <tfitch(a)esleeck.com> To: "'mrbill(a)pdp11.org'" <mrbill(a)pdp11.org> Subject: PDP11 Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 15:19:23 -0500 Mr. Bill, I have a PDP11 in two towers, with 2 crt's and keyboards, and a keyboard printer. All in excellent condition. I also have all of the original documentation. This product is available for pickup from our Turners Falls, MA location. Please contact me if you have any interest. Tom Fitch, Treasurer Esleeck Manufacturing Company 36 Canal Road Turners Falls, MA 01376 (413) 863-4326 ext 206

24 years, 6 months

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Good way to archive system disks

by dmabry＠mich.com

I'd like to create some archives of system diskettes for older machines, cp/m machines that use 5 1/4" 96 tpi double sided diskettes and 8" diskettes. What is a good way to do that? I've looked into Teledisk but that assumes that you can read the actual diskettes on a PC which I can't. Any suggestions? Thanks. -- Dave Mabry dmabry(a)mich.com Dossin Museum Underwater Research Team NACD #2093

24 years, 6 months

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Source for Osborne documentation?

by gibbsjj＠u.washington.edu

Hi all, I am looking for the original Osborne 1 and Osborne Executive documentation... any suggestions? A copy would be fine. A scanned copy would be even better. Is there an online archive of scanned documentation somewhere? Thanks. Josh

24 years, 6 months

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Merry Christmas Everyone!!!!

by fernande＠internet1.net

I didn't even realize it was past 12:00 until just now...... I'm busy wrapping presents :-) I've been working on a 486 for the last few days. I'm trying to get a few stagnant projects going. Dumb things freezes on me..... will write more later. Finally snowed too! Merry Christmas!! Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA

24 years, 6 months

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Merry Christmas Everyone!!!!

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

I have a AMD5x86/133 that runs linux Xwin rather well in 16mb ram. I've run it on 486dx66 with 20mb ram and it's decent. Allison -----Original Message----- From: Tothwolf <tothwolf(a)concentric.net> To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> Date: Tuesday, December 25, 2001 7:54 PM Subject: Re: Merry Christmas Everyone!!!! >On Tue, 25 Dec 2001, Ben Franchuk wrote: > >> A 486 makes a nice Linux box providing you don't run X-windows. > >A 486 with 32-64mb of ram will run X fine, but it's still a little slow >for cpu intensive processes (netscape, mozilla, gimp...). These machines >also make excellent X terminals, provided they have a fairly decent video >card. My personal favorites tend to be old Diamond Viper and Stealth VLB >cards with 2mb of video ram. > >-Toth >

24 years, 6 months

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HP 1000/E

by steven_j_robertson＠hotmail.com

>The time base generator boards are very simple, that accept a 3-bit >value >and will set their I/O flag bit after the selected time period, >which can >be 10 sec, 1 sec, 0.1 sec, 0.01 sec, etc. > >Usually the TBG board is installed in slot 10. I found the manuals for the TBG on www.spies.com/~AEK . Haven't messed with that board yet but, shouldn't have too much trouble using it. >You also have a HS Terminal board. Excellent, these are slightly >rare. >This is a serial port board that will run up to a maximm of >2400 baud, and >it is compatible with HP Basic. Normally these use a >current loop >interface, but a simple modification to the I/O cable >(inside the hood >that connects to the PCB) will give you RS-232 I/O. >I can supply all the >info you need for this. As with the TBG board, I found the manuals for this board. There are several code samples with the manuals and on Jeff's site but, so far I can't get it to work. I didn't realize the cable had to be changed for RS232. If you have the pin outs, that'd be cool. I don't have the code in front of me but, unless I'm mistaken, it just continously loops when checking the status. Not sure if this could be caused by the cabling differences or not. ... SFS 10 JMP *-1 ... NOTE: This is the only I/O card in the box so, I assumed it had to go in slot "10". If you can provide a short routine to send a single character to the console, that'd eliminate one of the variables (me). >Oh yes, your going to have to use a terminal with 2400 baud, 7 data > > >bits, space parity, and 2 stop bits. Hyperterminal works just fine >for >this. No problem. Got plenty of dumb terminals laying around. >The microcircuit interface boards are very valuable. You will want >to use >one of these as your reader-emulator interface. I'll need to >know if they >are '+ True' or 'GND true' boards, the differance being >true or inverting >cable drivers. We'll get to that a little later :-) >As for the 55613 GMR-1 board, I have no idea on this item. I'm >stumped, >and thats not too easy. Its not listed in my HP interface >manuals. >(to test a HP 1000 CPU, set the A register to 100000 octal, set the P > >register to 000000 and open the front panel. Switch the Lock/Operate > >switch to Lock, then press Was able to locate the DOCS for the ROM on the /~AEK/ site and ran the diagnostics (as indicated above). Everything checks out OK. >The Natel 2101 R/D converter also stumps me, is this a third party >I/O >board? >From the research I've done, it appears that "R/D Converter" indicates a "Resolver to Data converter. It was probably used in a some kinda robotic or motion controller application. >Now then, a tape reader emulator... > >My emulator uses a PIC 16C65A to talk to the microcircuit interface >board, >and a bank of EPROMs that hold images of the paper tapes. I >also have >modes to read from a generic paper tape reader, or from an >application >running on a PC (PC application not working yet). >If all you need is to boot HP Basic, I can build you a simple >version of >the emulator, or simply send you schematics and >pre-programmed PIC and >EPROM chips, at your preferance. Hmm... Once I get the system talking to a serial interface, I'll investigate further. From what I understand, the TAPE READER protocol is pretty simple so, I may be able to hack something together. I'll let you know when I get this far. >If these systems have the HP 7970E tape drive, thats a sturdy, >reliable >tape drive that is not too hard to get running with simple >assembly >language programs. I have one, and would reccomend it to >any HP >collector. Nothing says vintage like spinning mag tape and >blinking >lights! I have several HP 7978 (HP-IB) tape drives that I use on my "classic" 3000s and 9000 HP-UX boxes. Those are really sweet drives! Not sure if they're compatible with the 1000 or not? >Lastly, if you have any interest in assembly language programming on >your >HP machine, I can email you a DOS executable version of the >original HP >assembler. Downloaded the assembler (hpasm.c) from Jeff's site. Had no problem compiling or running it on my 9000. I've been using it while trying to get the serial interface going. Also downloaded the e21.c emulator but, wouldn't build on my box. --- /usr/ccs/bin/ld: Unsatisfied symbols: kbhit (code) --- Really haven't had time to investigate. Thanks again, SteveRob _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx

24 years, 6 months

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PALs (was Re: MITS 2SIO serial chip?)

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

I have read it, it's on my bookshelf. PALs were still just starting to be seriously used in the very late 70s with an increase into the 80s, it was the cost vs board real estate vs reliability issue. The testability/reliability issues took a few years to gain engineers confidence. Allison -----Original Message----- From: Pete Turnbull <pete(a)dunnington.u-net.com> To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> Date: Tuesday, December 25, 2001 9:05 PM Subject: Re: PALs (was Re: MITS 2SIO serial chip?) >On Dec 25, 12:22, Ethan Dicks wrote: >> --- ajp166 <ajp166(a)bellatlantic.net> wrote: >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: Ben Franchuk <bfranchuk(a)jetnet.ab.ca> >> > >> Sure its trivial to do now but we were talking 1981 when PALS were >> > >> expensive. >> > >> It depends on what your limited resource is and how costly _that_ is. >> ISTR PALs were $2-$10 each c. 1981-1982. If someone remembers >differently, >> please supply more accurage data. Yes, a single PAL cost more than >several >> TTL popcorn chips, but given how much you could fold into a single PAL in >> the way of I/O select logic (a common use on the board I first >encountered >> PALs on), it wasn't so expensive then. >> >> > Yes, they were compared to random logic, but if board space was costly >> > they were cheaper. >> >> Or if board space was a fixed resource, then it's doubly costly. The >> oldest example I can cite from personal experience is the COMBOARD-I >> to COMBOARD-II design. Both were early examples of 68000 designs (an >> intellegent Unibus serial periperal)... one with SRAM (2114s) and TTL >> logic, the other with DRAMs and PALs. One similarity - about 1.5 sq ft. >> of board space to cram in a CPU, RAM, support logic, a sync serial port >> (based on the COM5025) a parallel port and Unibus DMA logic. >> >> In 1981, our designers went with older tech, but the DMA engine was >> horribly complicated from the standpoint of the 68000, but it was in part >> because there wasn't enough room on the board for a better design with >> TTL. The second revision (c. 1983-1984) had more onboard I/O, and >> implemented the DMA engine as a bank of shared memory to the 68000 (i.e., >> read/write to a certain range of memory from your code and it >automatically >> generates a Unibus DMA cycle - most cool). I don't know for a fact, but >> from what I remember about the designs, I don't think a shared-memory DMA >> engine would have fit on a Unibus board if it had been made out of >popcorn >> logic. >> >> > >I never heard about pal's until about 1990... >> > >> > PALS are 1970s technology, really old to some of us. >> >> I didn't see PALs in use until the early 1980s. Yes, I know they came >> out in 1978, but products designed with them didn't hit right away. > >You should read Tracy Kidder's book, The Soul of a New Machine. It >describes the design of the Eagle inside Data General from early 1978 to >early 1980, and mentions PALs a lot. > >-- >Pete Peter Turnbull > Network Manager > University of York

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PALs (was Re: MITS 2SIO serial chip?)

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Dec 25, 12:22, Ethan Dicks wrote: > --- ajp166 <ajp166(a)bellatlantic.net> wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Ben Franchuk <bfranchuk(a)jetnet.ab.ca> > > >> Sure its trivial to do now but we were talking 1981 when PALS were > > >> expensive. > > > It depends on what your limited resource is and how costly _that_ is. > ISTR PALs were $2-$10 each c. 1981-1982. If someone remembers differently, > please supply more accurage data. Yes, a single PAL cost more than several > TTL popcorn chips, but given how much you could fold into a single PAL in > the way of I/O select logic (a common use on the board I first encountered > PALs on), it wasn't so expensive then. > > > Yes, they were compared to random logic, but if board space was costly > > they were cheaper. > > Or if board space was a fixed resource, then it's doubly costly. The > oldest example I can cite from personal experience is the COMBOARD-I > to COMBOARD-II design. Both were early examples of 68000 designs (an > intellegent Unibus serial periperal)... one with SRAM (2114s) and TTL > logic, the other with DRAMs and PALs. One similarity - about 1.5 sq ft. > of board space to cram in a CPU, RAM, support logic, a sync serial port > (based on the COM5025) a parallel port and Unibus DMA logic. > > In 1981, our designers went with older tech, but the DMA engine was > horribly complicated from the standpoint of the 68000, but it was in part > because there wasn't enough room on the board for a better design with > TTL. The second revision (c. 1983-1984) had more onboard I/O, and > implemented the DMA engine as a bank of shared memory to the 68000 (i.e., > read/write to a certain range of memory from your code and it automatically > generates a Unibus DMA cycle - most cool). I don't know for a fact, but > from what I remember about the designs, I don't think a shared-memory DMA > engine would have fit on a Unibus board if it had been made out of popcorn > logic. > > > >I never heard about pal's until about 1990... > > > > PALS are 1970s technology, really old to some of us. > > I didn't see PALs in use until the early 1980s. Yes, I know they came > out in 1978, but products designed with them didn't hit right away. You should read Tracy Kidder's book, The Soul of a New Machine. It describes the design of the Eagle inside Data General from early 1978 to early 1980, and mentions PALs a lot. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

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Found today ISD EPROM?

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On December 21, Tony Duell wrote: > > Today I stopped at a thrift and found a Blue/White metal device made by > > ISD and can't really figure it out. It has a place burn a chip and the > > one in it is ISD 1016 AP; a four inch speaker at the top and on the > > IIRC the ISD... chips were non-volatile, speech-quality audio storage > devices. Not digitised speech, they used different charge levels in > E2PROM-like cells to store analogue qunatities. I've used these chips in a few projects recently. They work very well and are easy to interface to PIC microcontrollers. Definitely neat stuff. I'm surprised they were able to get any sort of amplitude range from those nonvolatile cells, but they seem to have perfected it. -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf

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Flashing Light Indicators un Simple Front Panels

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On December 17, UberTechnoid wrote: > My Sparcstation 4/330 has a bank of ten (or so) red leds in a row. These > light in varios patterns to indicate which self test is being conducted at > power on. After this, the leds 'race' back and forth faster or slower > depending on the CPU load. Unfortunately, this cool load meter doesn't work > in netbsd or openbsd, only in Solaris. > > My Vaxstation 4000/60 has an 8 (or so) red led that also posts codes at > power on but nothing else in either vms or in netbsd. > > I recompiled the netbsd 1.5.2 kernel to enable the led on the Sparc.....and > nothing still. > > Why on earth would Sun put a cool set of leds UNDERNEATH the cover? I mean, > you might as well put it out there. The "LEDs on the spine of the board" design goes back to the earlier rackmount chassis, in which one could walk behind the racks and see the LEDs. The NetBSD LED support isn't for those LEDs, if memory serves...I believe it's only for the front panel LED on the SPARCstations, which is also controlled by software. -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf

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Tinning on old PCBs

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On December 20, John Lawson wrote: > Just a quick (dumb) question: is this 'tinning' silver? Or Green? In > other words, has the solder itself actually flaked off the trace (meaning > it never bonded in the first place) or has the 'paint' coating called the > solder mask, which is usually green, come off, revealing the trace beneath > it? This very common, and Ethan is right, it should be carefully re-tinned > to avoid long-term corrosion. I have a bottle of this really neat stuff that I bought at Active Electronics when I lived in Maryland. It's a clear liquid that, when brushed or poured over copper, deposits a layer of silvery metal (tin I assume) on the surface of the copper...nearly instantaneously. It just seems to plate out of solution onto the copper. It's most interesting to watch. It was sold with the printed circuit board fabrication materials, obviously intended for post-etching tinning of the remaining copper. I don't quite recall what it was called; it's still packed up from my move. But it was really neat stuff. -Dave PS - Happy holidays to all my fellow classiccmp'ers!! May your days be filled with tons of good food and your nights be filled with blinkenlights and elegant non-x86 instruction sets. -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf

24 years, 6 months

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"Geeks" and licensing

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> Rebuild a system the customer is satisfied with? Risk his > process again? Rather not. A special place in Hell awaits those unwilling to take risks... -dq

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Flashing Light Indicators un Simple Front Panels

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Dec 14, 16:16, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > In particular, do any of you have familiarity with > systems that flash the on or power light as an > indicattor, sopecifiecally, of a power supply > problem? The only thing I can think of that's *designed* to do something like that is an SGI Indy; if you power one up and it can't even run the the code in the PROM, it flashes the power light (which is a two-colour LED). The usual cause id that there's no (recognisable) RAM at all in it. Probably not relevant to a PR1ME. Even less relevant, but in the same vein, is an Acorn Archimedes. If it can't boot, and can't set up the display, it flashes a 4-bit fault code on the floppy access LED. However, the code is RISC OS-specific. > Would anyone venture what a 2 Hz flash rate on the ON > LED of a Prime might mean? If it's a short "on" and a long "off", it might be a power supply that is starting up , detecting a problem, and shutting off again. And retrying, and ... Is there any accompanying, possibly fairly quiet, whistle/buzz/click that occurs at the same rate? -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

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MITS 2SIO serial chip?

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

-----Original Message----- From: Ben Franchuk <bfranchuk(a)jetnet.ab.ca> >> Sure its trivial to do now but we were talking 1981 when PALS were >> expensive. Yes, they were compared to random logic, but if board space was costly they were cheaper. >I never heard about pal's until about 1990. In some ways the peripheral PALS are 1970s technology, really old to some of us. >chips are in a really sorry shape. You have vintage slow I/O (2 MHZ?) >or PC motherboard chip sets. Nothing in between. On my FPGA I can run >with a 250 ns memory cycle, but need to stretch it to 625 ns for I/O. Actually thats not true. BY 1981 you have peripherals in the 125ns read write timing range. Then again Z80 at that time was just hinting at 6mhz so z80 peripherals were of an according spped for that cpu. However, other parts were faster and often far cheaper. Personally if I wanted the SIO functionality for a NON-z80 system I'd never use the zilog part. Reason it was not cheap,nor was it easy to use for non-z80 systems. They were designed for the Z80, period. Unfortunatly they were slow. If you wanted faster the 83xx or 85xx parts from Zilog were a far better choice but Zbus was scary to most people and they weren't cheap. The other part of this is NEC and Intel did the MPSC (NEC D7201, INtel 8274) which was functionally identical to the SIO and was "tuned" for 8080/8085/8088/8086 style busses and faster as well. It was a more generic part than the SIO. Also around that time Signetics and friends were doing the 2681 part that was cheap and available in various flavors. Peripherals back then were quite varied. Allison

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Plastic latches for the Osborne?

by gibbsjj＠u.washington.edu

Hi all, Has anyone out there found a replacement for the plastic latches on the Osborne 1? I just got this machine, and one of them is broken off. What a bad design... considering how solid the rest of the machine is I am surprised they did not put some big hinged metal suitcase latches on the sucker! Thanks. Josh gibbsjj(a)u.washington.edu

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Apple DuoDisk (was Re: Stacking Apple ][ stuff)

by erd_6502＠yahoo.com

--- SUPRDAVE(a)aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 11/8/2001 5:06:19 AM Central Standard Time, > foo(a)siconic.com writes: > I do remember reading something of a faulty/out of spec component > inside the duodisk that would cause some issues with the floppy drives > but like I said, coming up 404 on it. Think I'll ask in comp.sys..... > and find out for sure. I'd like to hear more about this. I always used individual drives (typically SA400 mechs) when I did Apple development. The IIe and DuoDisk were too new and expensive for a low-budget shop like us (but we did eventually support the //c _and_ the Apple mouse) I have a DuoDisk but no cable. What pins were used? I think I _might_ have a cable that was sacrificed to the Amiga gods by having one of the pins broken out of one end for use as a modem cable (since the Amiga puts voltage on some of the pins). It was a stupid thing to do, but it was more than 10 years ago when Apple stuff was underappreciated. Anyone have an Apple part number for a DuoDisk cable? Will a 25-pin straight-through work? -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com

24 years, 6 months

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VS4000 hardware questions

by IVIE＠cc.usu.edu

> Well, I made room on my bench, opened up my grubby, new-to-me 4000/60, > and it only has one of the two RZ24 drives my partner paid for. I've > fired off email to the vendor asking him to ship the drive and mounting > hardware, but I don't expect that he'll have either. Take a closer look. Two drives can be attached to the plastic clip in the front middle of the machine, on on top and one underneath. Roger Ivie ivie(a)cc.usu.edu

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Hardest to Find Classic Computers (Was: RE: Way OT: Just say no t o squirrels & Pascal question)

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> When OT threads die and then get resurrected under even > wilder topics, its just not worth it. Ok, we've had threads similar to this one before, but maybe not quite... What are the hardest to find Classic Computers? What should not be counted: Systems that never went beyond prototype Systems that they made only one of Systems that were custom-designed for a single customer and were only in limited production Systems that were not "general purpose" computers Also not intended as the thrust of the topic: Systems you most of all want Rather, the systems I'me talking about would have been commercially produced, were general-purpose systems, made in quantity of say at least a baker's dozen. These systems might be generally available, and might go for a price you can afford, but you just can't *find* them where you're at. Around here for me, it would be PDP-8's and Lisa's. ??? -dq

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What 's a 3Com 3c515 worth these days?

by jhellige＠earthlink.net

>Well... I have no personal need for an ISA 10/100 in a WinTel box - I >have a 10BaseT network with 10Base2 and 10BaseFL branches going into >a port on my 10/100 switch. For old stuff, 10mbps is fine. If I were >going to buy this at all, I'd see about using it with AmigaDOS (and >working with Holger Kruse on an MNI driver, if he's still around) Holger isn't working on Miami any longer is he? I registered it a number of years ago but from the looks of it, it appears that development on it has stopped. I'm currently using an X-Surf with the MNI driver with the standard version of Miami (registered) on my A3000. Jeff

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Mike Stein

by mhstein＠usa.net

Sorry; trouble getting into ISP & mailbox filled up. OK now, c u off-list. m ---------------Original Message-------------- From: "Ernest" <ernestls(a)attbi.com> Subject: Mike Stein Hey, Mike. I've been trying to get ahold of you via email about your Apple II clone but your mail keeps bouncing back. Please contact me if you are still interested in selling those systems to me. Thanks. Ernest

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have a Happy ...

by oliv555＠arrl.net

>from Houston, wishing all list members a safe and happy holiday :) -nick o

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HP 1000/E

by steven_j_robertson＠hotmail.com

First, I'd like to say thanks to everyone that has provided help. The insight provided by this group is invaluable in getting a system like this going :-) I did a quick inventory of the cards in the rear of the machine plus a second 1000 carcass that I have and this is what I found: * (2) Time base generator * (3) Microcircuit A-2222 / 12566-60032 cards * (1) 55613 GMR-1 - I have no idea what this is. * (1) HS Terminal - 12531-80025 * (1) INTF - 1337 * (3) Natel 2101 R/D Converter I understand the "Time Generator" card but, really don't know the functions of the other cards. I know some of this info may be on the spies/~AEK site but, haven't had time to filter through those docs. The machine also has: * (1) 64K HSM 12747H - High speed memory * (1) MEM CONTR 2102B * (1) M.E.M 12731 I'm assuming these are just extended memory cards and controllers. At this point, the HP basic route certainly seems like the most doable. I did see those images on Jeff's site but, was pretty clueless as to how to get the data into the machine. Bob: exactly what is involved in your "Paper Tape Emulator". From the functional description, it doesn't sound all that complicated. This may be something, I could hack together. As a side note: I know where there are two more 1000/E that I could get for about $200 each. While I haven't inventoried them, each of those systems is a FULL rack of goodies including disk drives, X/Y data monitors, A/D converters, etc... One of the systems has a combo tape/hard drive and could possibly still have the OS installed. The other one has dual 8" floppies. I'm running out of room for rack sized systems but, those probably deserve a good home (mine). Happy holidays to all, SteveRob >From: Bob Shannon <bshannon(a)tiac.net> >Reply-To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org >To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org >Subject: Re: HP 1000/E >Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2001 09:56:42 -0500 > >Wow, you got an amazing deal! > >I've been looking for a spare 2113 for a while now, as I have a custom >instrument that is based on a HP 2113 processor. I would have easily paid >10 >times that price! > >As for operating systems and software, you have at least two options... > >First, the easy path... > >Simply run HP's stand-alone basic. You can download a binary image of the >media, originally a paper tape, from Jeff's HP2100 Archives. Now you need >a way >to get >that data into the machine, and a console port. > >You will also need a 'Buffered TTY Register' board to serve as a console >serial >port. Later HP machines (like the 2113) often use the BACI (Buffered Async >Communications Adapter) board, which is NOT compatible with HP Basic. > >Depending on what interface boards you have, we may be able to work out a >deal. > >I usually boot HP Basic from a custom tape reader emulator that holds the >binary >image of the paper tape in EPROM. This reader-emulator connects to a HP >'Microcircuit Interface' board, and the software is loaded using the >built-in >boot loader ROMs in the HP 2113. You simply power up, set a few switches >on the >front panel, then press IBL, Preset, then IBL once again, and the loader >code is >stored in memory. Pressing RUN at this point will load the tape image into >memory, and away you go. > >Now then the hard way... > >HP's operating system's for these machines are pretty nasty. The 'top of >the >line' OS was RTE-6VM, and the more common OS was RTE-IVB (RTE 4B). These >operating systems were unlike anything I've ever seen, cryptic, obtuse, and >fairly painful to use. As an example, to run a compiled program, you had >to >link the code into the OS itself. > >The hardest part here, is getting a useable disk system. RTE-IVB uses what >were >called MAC interface disks, while RTE-6VM also supported ICD drives, using >a >specialized version of the IEEE-488 interface. > >Supporting the original operating systems is a lot of work, and I strongly >reccomend you run HP Basic. > >Now, what exactly do you have? > >The HP 2113 was one of the last machines in a long series going back to >1968. >Your 2113 is binary code compatible with the original HP 2116, the first HP >product to use the then new-fangeled IC chips. HP2113's were still selling >for >$13,000+ in 1983, and are exceptionally well-built. > >It has no stack, but executes subroutines much like a PDP-8. In addition >to the >original HP 2116 instructions, the HP 2113 also adds several new registers >and >instructions, as well as a virtual memory scheme that can address 1 >megaword of >solid-state memory. > >Oh yes, many of the original interface boards from a 1968 HP 2116 will plug >right into your 2113 and work perfectly (but not the cool oscilloscope >point-plot display board...). > >I have a MS-DOS based version of the HP assembler, so you can assemble >small >programs on your PC. I am also working on a program for the PC that will >send >the paper tape image from the assembler into the HP via my tape reader >emulator. Once this is working, it should be possible to boot the HP >directly >from a file on the PC's disk. > >Take a careful inventory of the interface boards you have, and we can see >if >there is something in there you can use to get your machine running HP >Basic. >(many generic HP interface boards can be made to serve as psudo-tape reader >interfaces). _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com

24 years, 6 months

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RS/6000, cheap to good home.

by doc＠mdrconsult.com

Well, most of one anyway. I have a 7011-250 upgraded from a 7011-220, which means that I replaced literally everything but the case. So I have the 220 entire, if you want to mount it on something. This includes PSU, system board, MCA riser, 8-bit color adapter & riser, floppy drive & cable, and the lock barrel & key. A standard >2G scsi disk & cable will work. I've heard that the graphics adapter is not supported past AIX v3.25, but I promise you don't want to run X on this dog anyway. Or you could use a standard MCA graphics adapter. I need an internal SCSI cable for my VS3100 m38, a memory expansion board for the PS/2 8570, and a GXT130P graphics adapter. I'd consider Q-Bus drive controllers for the VS-II I may or may not be rebuilding, depending on whether the trade for CPU & RAM goes through. If you have something that's worth more than the RS/6000 pieces/parts, let me know what else you need. I'm suffering no delusions concerning the value of an orphaned 7011-220. Doc

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MITS 2SIO serial chip?

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

From: Ben Franchuk <bfranchuk(a)jetnet.ab.ca> >Since I have no way of having a chip of 80's technology made I have to >limit the design to what looks realistic for that era. I dont get that? You want a 4mhz z80 or 5mhz 8085? Those are relatively common. Now, if your doing PDP-8 era then 1.2uS instruction cycle was the number, slow by todays standards. >This is what this is -- a hobby/ learning tool -- In the early 80s, I really was trying to do what zilog eventually did, make a Z280 more or less. That and figure out what this ucode thing was all about. >If it was $$$ making I would have to move to Seattle. :) Now that's depressing. ;)

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6502/Z80 speed comparison (was MITS 2SIO serial chip?)

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

Z80 uses it's time differently... Then again how many instuctions would it take to do a 16bit add (result in register or convenient place). The fact that both are still viable suggests they have adaquate speed and a rich enough instruction set to do many tasks. Last item, z80, Z180 and Z280 do not have the same timing. For example the Z280 can be run at a bus speed slower than the CPU speed and with the MMU and cache running in burst mode you get a very different bus utilization model. Generally the only things that count is: Can the cpu do the task? What cpu are you familiar with? What is the total cost to implement the task (firmware/software counts)? Politcial impacts (company prefers, owns, has, used before). Do I think z80 is better than 6502? Yes, I'm biased. Is 6502 a good cpu? I think so, it certainly beat the 6800 and a lot of others in the 8bit space. Would I design with it? No, lack of experience, no on hand software base for it, limited tools to work with it. Would I consider it, likely. I have 6502, 6800, 1802, SC/MP, SC/MPII, ti9900, 8048/9/874x, 8080, 8085, z80, Z180 Z280, 6809 and T-11 to pick from. For a new design (personal) of some size say to run an OS then Z280 or T-11 for single chip I have 8748, 8749 and 8751s around. For simple controllers 8085 is easy to use if it grows out of the 8749. Then again I also have upd78pg11s too. Allison -----Original Message----- From: Richard Erlacher <edick(a)idcomm.com> To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> Date: Thursday, December 20, 2001 4:17 AM Subject: 6502/Z80 speed comparison (was MITS 2SIO serial chip?) >I've been on both sides of this question on a number of occasions and I've found >that the real challenge is to figure out what defines a level playing field for >such a comparison. I once concluded that running each processor at a rate >amenable with the same memory bandwidth was appropriate, but there are a number >of quesitons, still that have to be resolved. > >(1) the 6502 is designed in a way that lends itself very well to shared use of >its memory, i.e. using the memory for the CPU during phase-2 and letting a >memory-mapped video refresh circuit have it during phase-1. That's quite >reasonable and impacts the 6502 very little, but, if you try to do the same >thing with a Z80, you get tangled up with its variable cycle lengths pretty >quickly. > >(2) the Z80 demands a pretty short cycle for its instruction fetch (M1) cycle, >and, if that's to be the rate-determining step for the cmparison, i.e. if the >memory bandwidth requirement is determined on that basis, (no wait-states >allowed) then the 6502 will eat it alive. That, of course, is because 50% of >its memory bandwidth will be frittered away due to the fact that the M1 cycle is >short and has a wasted tail end (refresh cycle) while the 6502 doesn't have that >burden. Further, if that determines the memory bandwidth, then the M1 cycle >(~400 ns with 200ns memory of the era) means that a 4 MHz CPU wouldn't be able >to run with it. > >Fairness might demand a wait state, but that would then raise the question of >what's the bus bandwidth at which the 6502 will be run (assume a 20 MHz 6502 and >a 20 MHz Z80, but use memory of their own era.) Also, the refresh cycle itself >is a mite short for what the CPU does at 4 MHz. How would one stretch it to >where it wouldn't impinge on the next memory cycle? If you have to share the >memory bus of the 6502, why not the Z80 as well? If you can use timing tricks, >why not on the 6502? I'd say use whatever timing tricks the two CPU's can live >with, but run them to their best advantage. Run phase-1 on the 65-2 for only 25 >ns, then switch to phase-2 for whatever time the Z80 uses the memory. Let the >Z80 use a wait or two in the M1, and stretch the refresh so the cycle can be >complete when the next cycle is in progress. Since non-M1 memory cycles are 3 >clock ticks, the clock could be pretty fast, couldn't it? > >(Can you see how this gets tangled up in technical problems of fair comparison? >That's BEFORE the question of what sort of benchmark software is to be used >comes up.) > >The shortest 6502 instructions take two clock ticks, but some overlap the next >instruction fetch. The shortest Z80 instructions take an M1 cycle, followed by >refresh, to fetch, and I'm not sure whether they execute during the refresh >(they're internal, so that's conceivable) or whether they produce an idle bus >cycle. I also don't know what happens during that idle bus cycle. Simply >sitting down and calculating the relative instruction timing might not be so >easy. It certainly won't be easy to get right. > >My own experience has been that in controller applications, manipulation of >16-bit values doesn't come up as often as I once believed. Mostly it seems the >values that are dealt with are 8 bits or fewer. Others may see this >differently, however. > >Dick > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Greg Ewing" <greg(a)cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> >To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> >Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 3:30 PM >Subject: Re: MITS 2SIO serial chip? > > >> Ben Franchuk <bfranchuk(a)jetnet.ab.ca>: >> >> > what is the faster CPU -- A 6502 or Z80 style processor like >> > the rabbit. >> >> Back when I used to spend long blissful evenings hand-assembling Z80 >> programs [1] I got the impression that Z80 code was more compact than >> 6502 code, being able to manipulate 16-bit values with single >> instructions in many cases. Whether it was actually faster I don't >> know, but I suspect it was, as long as you stuck to the 8080-like core >> instructions which didn't take ridiculous numbers of cycles to >> execute. >> >> [1] I didn't do it in a storage locker, although I did often >> had the heater on in winter. >> >> Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept, +--------------------------------------+ >> University of Canterbury, | A citizen of NewZealandCorp, a | >> Christchurch, New Zealand | wholly-owned subsidiary of USA Inc. | >> greg(a)cosc.canterbury.ac.nz +--------------------------------------+ >> >> >

24 years, 6 months

6
13
0 0

FS/FT: DEC TZ85 DLT tape drive

by mrbill＠mrbill.net

I'm not sure how old this is, or if it meets the 10-year rule.. but I've got a DEC TZ85 (first-generation DLT; also reads TK50 and TK70 media) SCSI DLT drive for sale or trade. Ended up not being enough capacity (does 2.6G on a DLT-III tape) for what I needed at home. I've got the TZ85-A in original DEC big loud and noisy desktop 5.25" enclosure (has Centronics-style SCSI-I connectors, and I'll throw in the DEC scsi terminator). If it helps, I'll also throw in 10 or 20 DLT-III tapes, if you want to pay shipping (these tapes also work with all current DLT drives, at 10/20G capacity if I remember correctly). Looking to sell, or trade for ham radio or scanner (radio) gear. I'm in Austin, TX, and this beast is heavy (as are the tapes), so a local or nearby deal preferred, but if you're not local, buyer pays shipping. Email me if interested. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill(a)mrbill.net Austin, TX

24 years, 6 months

1
1
0 0

Fairchild FST-2?

by neil.macmillan＠freeuk.com

The Fairchild FST-2 computer was used to control a family of Semiconductor ( chip ) testers I guess from sometime in the mid 1970s to around the mid 1980s. The family of testers were branded as "Sentry", "Sentinel" and "Series10" ( maybe some others ). The FST-2 was a 24-bit machine with its memory interleaved between odd and even addreses. When the CPU was reading/writing to an odd address, a peripheral could address an even address and vice-versa using DMA. Early machines were booted from tape, but newer machines had a PROM boot board which allowed booting from 8" floppy, hard-disk, tape ( and possibly a network. ) Early machines had 25 bit wide memory with a parity bit, while the later machines had 30 bit wide memory which provided error detection and correction. Control of the tester was via two busses known as the long-register bus and the short-register bus. If you come across an FST-2 which can be powered up, set the console switches ( piano keys ) to 06760000 in octal and press STOP, RESET, LDP, LDC and START. The machine should waken up. There are a few stand-alone FST-2s kicking around without any tester hardware. These were used as a FACTOR compiler co-processor for a development system which was based on the HP1000. Most FST-2s will be part of a chip tester. If the chip tester is still working, the whole system is still quite valuable. Even as a source of spares. Although the tester has a lot of different power supplies the FST-2 probably ony needs 5.0V and the RS-232 voltages to get running. The FST-2 ran an OS named M3 ( "M Cubed" ) and was programmed using a FORTRAN-like language named FACTOR, ( Fairchild Algorithmic Compiler Tester ORiented. ) Most Sentry testers could test digital chips with 60 pins up to 10 MHz. Some later Sentrys could test up to 120 pins at 20 MHz. I remember FST-2s being very slow to compile FACTOR programs. Most users ended up compiling their program and test patterns ( Vectors/Truth-Tables ) on a VAX. Fairchild ( and later Schlumberger ) provided really good in-depth training and documentation for the CPU and the testers for hardware maintenance and programming. The manuals which were up for grabs were either manuals/schematics which were shipped with a tester, or training manuals which some engineer picked up in San Jose or Munich.

24 years, 6 months

2
1
0 0

Wanted DEC VT1200 mouse and cable

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On December 24, Bill Pechter wrote: > The cable that goes between the DEC VT1200 (looks like an N connector) > and their monochrome video monitors like a vt262 and a DEC VSXXX-AA > mouse. > > I've got a working VT1200 minus mouse and video cable. > I was going to cobble one up with some RG6 and a BNC connector and > an N connector (if that's really an N connector) but I'd really rather > find the right cable and spend more time enjoying the toy rather than > fixing it. FYI, if that connector is about the size of a BNC but threaded, it's a TNC connector. -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf

24 years, 6 months

1
0
0 0

Fluke, GRID and Daisy

by kenziem＠sympatico.ca

It's funny how once you find out about a certain machine they then seem to show up everywhere. Found a Fluke 900* yesterday they are asking $25 (Cdn) for it, looked like it was missing attachments. Picked up a GRID 1500 laptop it came with 6 batteries, external 3.5, 5.25 and tape as well as a vga adapter. It's missing a battery charger, and when it boots mentions a config error. The Daisy was sitting in the back, they had it put with office furniture. It looks like a desk but with a closer look, there is a 8" floppy drive on the side and at the base all of the usual connectors.

24 years, 6 months

2
1
0 0

More... Re: VS4000 hardware questions

by LFessen106＠aol.com

In a message dated 12/24/01 6:51:52 PM Eastern Standard Time, doc(a)mdrconsult.com writes: > The "disconnect your terminal" part was the thing. I find it odd that > the box won't even finish power-up diags if the terminal is connected > and turned off. > > Doc > That's not so odd.. The exact same thing happens with my 3 vs3100m35's, my vs3500, all my Decstations and my Alphastation as well.. I just leave them completely headless for the most part, and the ones I need a head on always have a terminal connected and running.

24 years, 6 months

1
0
0 0

CD32 and CD-TV (was Re: Hardest to Find Classic Computers)

by rachael_＠gmx.net

on 19-Dec-01 18:53:47, Ethan Dicks wrote: >I still have mine that I bought new. I use it to play CD+G discs and >not much else. Wish I had the MPEG cart - got some VCDs that would >be fun to play on it. I have an SX-1 adapter that turns a CD32 into >sort of an A1200, but I haven't had the time to check it out and put >it together. Does anyone have any docs for that? The jumpers are >labelled, so there's not much guesswork, but any docs are more than >I have now. http://www.amiga-hardware.com/sx-1.html, there is a PDF version of the docs there. Regards Jacob Dahl Pind -- CBM, Amiga,Vintage hardware collector Email: Rachael_(a)gmx.net url: http://rachael.dyndns.org

24 years, 6 months

2
1
0 0

M8650 async board problem

by djg＠drs-esg.com

One more thing you might want to watch out for with excessive +5 voltage drop on an 8/E is the 5V fuse. I have mine almost full of cards and the fuse holder melted. I have a maintenance handbook (which I got after the failure) which said that this was a known problem. I measured the current draw and found it was slightly above the power supply rating so added another supply to power half the backplane.

24 years, 6 months

1
0
0 0

Apple II serial number 2000?

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Dec 24, 6:31, Ernest wrote: > > I have an Apple II, serial number 2000. There is some question as to whether > or not this acurate so I thought that I would toss it out here and see if > any of you can verify it one way or the other. [...] > One person told me that it is in fact, a revision 0 board, and the edge > connectors are unusual (?) but someone else (Sellam) mentioned that he > believed that Apple began the A2 series with serial number 2001 (a spin on > the 2001 movie.) I would like to hear if anyone has any thoughts or opinions > about it. It certainly looks like an early Rev.0 board -- it has the memory configuration blocks, the right kind of sockets, old DRAM, and no extra video pin in the corner. It's an old keyboard as well (look at the power light). It's amazingly clean. You must have taken a bit of care over it, from your description. A nice find, anyway. > The pictures will expand to 640x480 if you click on the main images. Not, alas, in Netscape. But right-clicking on them works. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

24 years, 6 months

1
0
0 0

720k floppy

by Golemancd＠aol.com

anyone know where i can find some 720k floppies thanks Joee

24 years, 6 months

9
8
0 0

I'm back!!!!

by vaxman＠earthlink.net

Bet y'all missed me :) Got the new Covad/Earthlink DSL hooked up finally... The firewall may actually be working too... Need to check it out... Anything of great import happen in the last two months (since 31-oct-01?) Laters, clint

24 years, 6 months

7
14
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