- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On December 29, Chad Fernandez wrote: > The other day I found a SCO Open Desktop 2.0.0 media kit, on Qic24 > tape. I don't have the correct drive...... I don't have any tape drive > experience, actually. > > Does anybody have an unneeded Qic24 SCSI tape drive? I checked Ebay and > I didn't see anything that I thought was what I needed. This is going back into a very fuzzy memory...but does anyone know if an Archive 2150S drive (QIC-150) will read QIC-24 tapes? Those drives are pretty common, and they're standard SCSI so they don't require less common interface hardware. And, I think I have one. :-) -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf

24 years, 6 months

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Apple 2gs boards, what are they?

by dlw＠trailingedge.com

Picked up some Apple IIgs boards yesterday and I need some help with them. First is a Q-RAM GS memory board. This looks like it has 4 meg on it and the only thing here I'd like to know is what the 2 switches are for and what sizes of simms will it support. Any doc would be helpful. There others I'm not sure what they are. The first is labeled as "Quickie Controller" "Vitesse Inc." "P/N 121489" There is a cable that goes to one of those round plugs like the the serial and printer plugs on the IIgs. What's the official name of those connectors? The other is from Apple but I don't know what it is. It has a cable off the back to a 25 pin connector. On the board is "Apple Computer 820-0153-A" Over one set of chips it says something about "sandwich II". I don't know any of the chips on it (never was great at IDing more than a handful of chips). Could post pics if it would help. Anyone know anything on any of these boards? Thanks. ----- "What is, is what?" "When the mind is free of any thought or judgement, then and only then can we know things as they are." David Williams - Computer Packrat dlw(a)trailingedge.com http://www.trailingedge.com

24 years, 6 months

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Seagate MFM drives available

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

I got a bunch of functioning seagate MFM drives available. ST-225,238 and 251 models as well as some big FH models. All survived a LLF too. Controller cables also if you need them. Email if interested.

24 years, 6 months

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NEXT Color Printer find

by mythtech＠Mac.com

>I've heard of those too, and was thinking about getting one for some of the >older macs I had, before I decided to get rid of 'em. IIRC they weren't the >most elegant of things, and drivers were a problem. I've used the Asante ones without a hitch for years. No driver problems at all. You just need the Asante driver (last I knew, it was still available on their web site, just burried). The driver hasn't given me any problems up thru OS 7.6.1. I don't know about OS 8+, but any Macs that can use OS 8 have an alternate means in which ethernet can be added. I have used the "Mini" which is the one that needs SCSI Bus power (and so can't work with a Mac Plus), and I have used the "Micro" which is the one that has the HDI-30 connector and is designed for powerbooks. The only problem I have ever had with these is when I dropped one off a desk, it stopped working. Other than that, there was a minor config problem in using one with IPNetRouter, but that was a known issue with IPNR, and IIRC, was actually a problem with IPNR and not with the Asante Driver (they work fine with IPNR, it just needs to be on the local network side, and not the internet side of a dual ethernet firewall/nat setup). I am hoping to lay my hands on a "desktop" version shortly, so I can use one with my Mac Plus (the "desktop" version has an external powersupply and doesn't need the scsi bus power to run the device). -chris <http://www.mythtech.net>

24 years, 6 months

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Trailing-edge compute farm seeks gainful employment

by Golemancd＠aol.com

what kind a processors r those that u have u say mips

24 years, 6 months

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Connectors (was: NEXT Color Printer find

by mythtech＠Mac.com

>Would they call common network connectors "8 pin RJ-11"? >Or would they call them "8 pin telephone connectors"? Neither, 8 pin RJ's are an RJ-45 (11 is a 4 pin, comes in either standard or handset sizes... can also have just 2 pins for "cheap" cords... 12 is a 6 pin, same physical size as a standard RJ-11) Ok, now you can hit me for being a wise ass ("not in the face, not in the face" -Arthur "The Tick") -chris <http://www.mythtech.net>

24 years, 6 months

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NEXT Color Printer find

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On December 30, Pete Turnbull wrote: > > My understanding is that Centronics was the first to use this type of > connector on its parallel printers, so > > when it became the standard type connector the name stuck. > > No, Tony is correct. Just because a name is commonly (mis)used in a > particular way, doesn't mean it's correct, especially in catalogues. This > discussion has come up before in relation to "DB9" connectors etc. A > Centronics connector is a specific size, 36pins. The other sizes (14, 20, > 24, 50, etc) are NOT Centronics connectors. The 24-way is sometimes > referred to as an IEEE-488 connector. Does that make all the other sizes > IEEE-488 connectors too? > > The common misuse is fairly recent, too. 50-pin conectors in that shape > have been around for a long time, as SCSI connectors, as telco connectors, > and for datacomms. Only in the last 5-8 years have I seen them referred to > as Centronics. It has always been my understanding that the proper way to refer to one of these is by the name "amphenol connector". -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf

24 years, 6 months

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Fwd: information

by jhellige＠earthlink.net

Maybe one of you can help this guy out....if so, please reply directly to him. Jeff >Status: U >From: g25wytak(a)aol.com >Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2001 19:38:31 EST >Subject: information >To: jhellige(a)earthlink.net > > My name is George, and I have a Sharp >PC-1250A Pocket computer and I am looking for the owner's manual and >the BASIC Programming manual. I am hopeing that you may be able to >help me. > Thank you for your time > > e-mail-----------g25wytak(a)aol.com -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757

24 years, 6 months

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NEXT Color Printer find

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Dec 31, 16:47, Richard Erlacher wrote: > EEEEK!!! It's not a "DB-9"!!! Exactly my point :-) And that's pretty much my reaction when I hear people call things Centronics, that clearly aren't. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

24 years, 6 months

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Asante NetExtender Hub

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Dec 30, 14:01, Zane H. Healy wrote: > I've no idea how on-topic it is, but... This last week I rescued a "Asante > NetExtender Hub" from the trash. In looking at it, it would appear to be a > combination Ethernet Transciever/4-Port 10BaseT Hub (yet it's smaller than > most 10BaseT Trascievers). > > Is it what I think, or is it something different. It's a small 5-port repeater, with one of the ports being AUI. It's meant to extend an existing hub, but it can be used as stand-alone. It's line-powered, too, I think. So you might need to have something plugged into the AUI port (eg a computer with an AUI drop cable). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

24 years, 6 months

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International Extensions

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Dec 30, 10:40, Ian Koller wrote: > All right, I've got one for the international users ... > > Can anyone fill in or add to any of the international > extensions you sometimes see on URL's ? The ones I'm > aware of ( but still have some blanks in ) so far are ... .ch is Switzerland, .cn is China. I don't know about .fm. .ru is Russia. .ro is Romania Just look up the ISO 3166 code list, or the list of ccTLDs (country code top level domains): http://www.iana.org/cctld/cctld-whois.htm -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

24 years, 6 months

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Asante NetExtender Hub

by healyzh＠aracnet.com

I've no idea how on-topic it is, but... This last week I rescued a "Asante NetExtender Hub" from the trash. In looking at it, it would appear to be a combination Ethernet Transciever/4-Port 10BaseT Hub (yet it's smaller than most 10BaseT Trascievers). Is it what I think, or is it something different. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh(a)aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |

24 years, 6 months

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What 's a 3Com 3c515 worth these days?

by ken＠seefried.com

> On the other hand, Linux might support the old stuff like > this much better. Linux does indeed have drivers for the 3c515, written by Don Becker (just like almost every other network card driver in Linux). Web page for the driver is at http://www.scyld.com/network/3c515.html. I have never used them. Ken

24 years, 6 months

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CPT 9000

by Westward_Jersey＠msn.com

Hi I have a mint condition CPT 9000 (J-Laser) Circa 1988. It is in original condition with Ventura operating in full screen mode. Any offers ? Westward_Jersey(a)msn.com

24 years, 6 months

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Tonight's S-100 find detailed inventory

by erd_6502＠yahoo.com

OK... first of all, let me say that an XOR box weighs a ton. Second, here's what I have - more cards than a single computer needs. I wish I hadn't given away _all_ of my 68K S-100 stuff to a friend years ago (but at least it's in good hands) In the backplane when I got it: o COMPU/TIME UFDC-1 floppy disk controller, c. 1983 Labelled jumpers for drives A-D, each with "5/8", "S0" and "S1" 1 34-pin connector 1 50-pin connector WDC FD1795PL-02 FDC chip no docs o COEX 64K static RAM board, c. 1984 32 Hitachi M58725P 2Kx8 SRAM chips no docs (but jumpers are labelled) o COMPU/TIME SBC-880 CPU board (c) 1980 no CPU chip Loose boards... o QT Computer Systems RAM+65 SRAM board, c. 1981 32 2114 SRAMs (16K total) missing IC49 (near the S-100 fingers, probably a 74LS240 or 74LS244) labelled DIP switches no docs o Vector Graphic 8K SRAM board, c. 1980 64 2102 SRAMs no docs o Seals Electronics SRAM board, (c) 1976 64 2102 SRAMs (8K) no docs o SSM VB1C video card, c. 1980 docs o SSM VB2 video card, c. 1979 chips still under plastic docs o Cromemco TU-ART Digital Interface, c. 1982 2 parallel 2 serial NIB docs o Vector Graphic Bit Streamer serial card 8251 SIO chip no docs o MITS 88 UIO "Universal I/O Card"(?) c. 1977 M6850 AY-5-10134 26-pin Berg-styled connector 10-pin .154"(?)-spacing single-row connector (P-2) no docs o Unknown-brand mystery card (video?), c. 1979 8212 2 x 2708 EPROM (each marked 'FW II Gen', one with down arrow, one up) 4 x 2114-3 SRAMs 6-pin .1"-spacing single-row connector U42 missing (24-pin .6" DIP) no docs o SSM CB1A CPU board, c. 1980 INS8080A 2 x 8212 2 x 2708 (marked "0-3V" and "4.7V") 2 x 2114 docs o SSM 8080 Monitor V1 docs command summary listings So, all in all, a good night's work. I'd love to learn more about what I have, especially the stuff with no docs. Some of the docs I do have, have schematics, but some of it is assembly and rudimentary test/programming instructions. I would appreciate any and all tips to online versions of docs for this stuff. I would also appreciate any tips for getting an OS for the box with its COMPU/TIME cards. I suppose one way would be to receive a 5.25" image, reconstitute it and boot the system off of mini-floppy, then format a disk or two on the 8" floppies and go >from there. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com

24 years, 6 months

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Digital Rainbow 100+ PC

by ajwotherspoon＠shaw.ca

For Sale or ???: DIGITAL RAINBOW 100+ COMPUTER This early 1980's machine is designed to boot DOS, CP/M and as a DEC Terminal. CPU - Model PC100-B2, Serial #WFC3514 - with dual 5.25" floppy drive and full height hard drive Colour Monitor - Model VR241-A, Serial #Y31-008107 - with video cable Keyboard - Model LK201AA, Serial #B033602238 - with cable [plugs into video cable] Printer - Model LA50-RA, Serial #TC73817A - with printer cable Circuit boards in CPU are as follows: 5416206 5416205-01C1 [PC100-B MOTHER BD] 5415961 5015960-01C1 [PC100B MEMORY EXTENSION] [27 sockets for DRAM; 9 populated with 50256-150 chips] 5415688 5015687-01J1 [No description on board] 5415482 5015481-C1P1 [PC100 RX50 CONTROLLER] [Floppy Drive] 5416019 5016018-A1 [PC100 RD51 CNTLR] [Hard Drive] The hard drive is a Seagate ST-412. No documentation. No diskettes. Includes 3 power cords. In working order (except do not know how to test printer which seems to POST OK). CPU will boot from hard drive into CP/M but not DOS. Plastic cases are quite suntanned (i.e. yellowed) except printer. Pictures of the machine may be viewed at http://members.shaw.ca/ajwotherspoon/rainbow/. Located in Victoria, BC, Canada. Shipping (including cartons), insurance and customs broker (if required) are your choice and cost. Using a bathroom scale the approximate weights are: CPU - 32 lbs. Monitor - 36 lbs. Keyboard - 4 lbs. Printer - 20 lbs. Cables - 4 lbs. Total - 96 lbs. (plus shipping cartons) I have a box that could be used for the printer if packed in Styrofoam peanuts. The hard drive should probably have its heads parked before shipping but I will need instructions/software. This is a collector's item, I am sure, but I have no idea as to its value and I am not a collector. It was purchased new here in Victoria from Computerland about 1983. I found it at a garage sale a few weeks ago. I would hate to see it scrapped but I can't store it much longer! I will not separate any components - it's all or nothing! For my efforts I would like a few dollars in addition to the shipping/insurance but not an outrageous sum. At www.omnicorp.net/dec.htm (in New Jersey) I see the CPU is listed at US$85, the monitor at US$95, the keyboard at US$50 and the printer at US$75 (all tested and guaranteed). I am not looking at anywhere near these prices. For further information or to make an offer please send email. This machine was posted on December 19, 2001 in the comp.sys.dec.micro Newsgroup and I have had one expression of interest so far. Alex

24 years, 6 months

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International Extensions

by Innfogra＠aol.com

.mx is for Mexico Paxton

24 years, 6 months

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Trailing-edge compute farm seeks gainful employment

by Golemancd＠aol.com

build a multiprocessor unit that runs bots

24 years, 6 months

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Seagate ST32550N vs Quantum XP32150 - which is better?

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On December 29, Ethan Dicks wrote: > A buddy of mine needs a couple of 2Gb 1" SCSI drives. I have both > Quantum XP32150s and ST32550Ns available. Are these drives essentially > equivalent, or is one better than the other? I can't tell you anything about the XP32150s, but I've set up probably three hundred ST32550Ns and have had very good luck with them. Their write caches ship set to "disabled" by default, though, so it's usually a good idea to stick it on something that'll allow you to edit the contents of Mode Page 6 to turn it on, if my memory is correct. -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf

24 years, 6 months

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VAX 4000-200's on eBay.de

by wilby98＠yahoo.com

On my quest to get more "stuff" of a classic nature I came across these items on eBay in Germany. http://cgi.ebay.de/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1311492128 Now, I do not speak German and in fact know very little about VAX's in general. But for some reason the notion of having one is appealing. Also, these items are "relatively" close (me being in Holland). Time is running out on these but it looks like they have a minimum acceptable bid. Does that mean that if the bid is not met you can negotiate a price outside of the auction? (I don't know much about eBay either). How do they look to you VAX owners/operators? Bill Amsterdam, NL

24 years, 6 months

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VESA Bus Multi-IO cards

by mythtech＠Mac.com

If anyone is interested, I saw in at the local thrift store 4, what appear to be brand new, Data Technology DTC2278V2 VESA Local Bus Multi IO Cards. They have two serial, 1 parallel, FDC and IDE. I think the price was $10.00 per card (I didn't write down the price in my infinite wisdom, and I saw them about 6 hours ago, so like most of the rest of my day, the info is slipping out of my head... but I think it was $9.99). I don't care about making money off them, so the cards will be actual price (price + 6% NJ tax), plus shipping. Figure they will be about 1 lb when packed, shipping from 07450. If anyone wants me to pick one up, let me know (I remember there was a VESA discussion going on here not too long ago, so I figured some of you might have an interest in one) -chris <http://www.mythtech.net>

24 years, 6 months

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Any interest in 5.25 floppy drives or small scsi drives?

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

I've got a number of IBM SCSI drives from 80-200 meg that work just fine as well as a whole bunch of 5.25 floppy drives from different manufacturers in both 360k and 1.2m capacities and I hate to just toss the stuff. Anybody have a need for them? --

24 years, 6 months

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Wanted: One Specific Piece of Software

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On December 29, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > Which aren't what you want. But let me heartily recomend Clipper. > > It compiles 99% of dBase programs and more. The 2 features I really > > liked of Clipper where that it worked like a real compiler (ie, > > compiled to .obj files, linked to .exe. Back in the day I used a 3rd > > party incremental linker which saved much time during compiles) but > > Yes, I used an incremental linker as well ("Blinker" is what it was called > if I'm not mistaken). It made a tremendous difference on a 286 :) I used "tlink" (came with Borland compilers if memory serves) for linking clipper programs. It was a very good linker. -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf

24 years, 6 months

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Interactive UNIX set claimed

by erd_6502＠yahoo.com

I will contact the earliest respondent off-list. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com

24 years, 6 months

1
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Try it!!!! (Was - Re: One More PCB Dishwasher Question)

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Dec 29, 12:53, William Donzelli wrote: > I would think the thermal shock of the chips hitting the hot water would > be a failure mechanism. Hot air and hot water are different things, even > at the same temperature. The thermal resistance of a water to ceramic (or > plastic) junction is much, much lower, than one with air, so during the > first seconds of the wash cycle, the chips go from ambient > temperature to something rather high. Lots of stress results, especially > if only some of the chip's package gets wet. Preheating the boards would > help reduce the shock greatly, but home dishwashers do not do that (not a > good idea to cook the food onto the plates before trying to wash them!). Do most American dishwashers start with hot water? Most European ones start with cool water and heat it as they run. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

24 years, 6 months

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I bought eBay!

by vcf＠vintage.org

http://www.siconic.com/crap/PC270014.JPG I couldn't resist ;) (For those without the benefit of a GWB, it's a photo of a game I just bought at the toy store called "eBay Electronic-Talking Auction Game" :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *

24 years, 6 months

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Tape drive needed

by Innfogra＠aol.com

In a message dated 12/29/01 3:15:45 PM Pacific Standard Time, geoffr(a)zipcon.net writes: > > > This is going back into a very fuzzy memory...but does anyone know if > > > an Archive 2150S drive (QIC-150) will read QIC-24 tapes? Those drives > > > are pretty common, and they're standard SCSI so they don't require > > > less common interface hardware. And, I think I have one. :-) > > 2150S will read a QIC24 tape just fine. > Most any 60 meg, 150 meg and IIRC 525 meg drives will read QIC-24, Serial Recorded Magnetic Tape Cartridge for Information Interchange (9 tracks, 10,000 FTPI, GCR, 60 MB) Here is a link to the QIC Standards. http://www2.qic.org/qic/html/qicstan.html QUIC-02 & QIC-36 are interface standards and should not be confused with QIC-24 which is a format for information interchange. The QIC-02 interface 150 meg drive should work if you have a QIC-02 controller in your computer. SCSI drives are easier. An Archive 2150S should work fine. Paxton Astoria, OR

24 years, 6 months

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Try it!!!! (Was - Re: One More PCB Dishwasher Question)

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

From: Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) <cisin(a)xenosoft.com> >And where can I get a dish^H^H^H^Hboard washer that STARTS at 150 degrees? >Mine takes a while to flush the cold water through the system before it >starts spraying hot. When I turn on a "HOT" water faucet, in MY house, it >takes it close to a minute to come up to temperature. One of the >consequences of long pipes and not sharing plumbing with a lot of other >people. Thank you for pointing out the most practical matter of it all. Allison

24 years, 6 months

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Try it!!!! (Was - Re: One More PCB Dishwasher Question)

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

From: William Donzelli <aw288(a)osfn.org> >I would think the thermal shock of the chips hitting the hot water would >be a failure mechanism. Hot air and hot water are different things, even >at the same temperature. The thermal resistance of a water to ceramic (or Not an issue as the temps are well blow boiling (nominal 145f). >plastic) junction is much, much lower, than one with air, so during the >first seconds of the wash cycle, the chips go from ambient >temperature to something rather high. Lots of stress results, especially >if only some of the chip's package gets wet. Preheating the boards would >help reduce the shock greatly, but home dishwashers do not do that (not a >good idea to cook the food onto the plates before trying to wash them!). Not required. >The above is one of the reasons why liquid cooled electronics are a bit >tricky. The cooling units *never* just start pumping cold water when the >power is applied. There is always a stabilization period, so the shock is >reduced. Some do, other run the cooling first and let the coolant temp climb to operating temp gradually. Others preheat the coolant to working temp so the system can come on line faster. Allison

24 years, 6 months

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AVAILABLE-- PDP, DEC parts

by LFessen106＠aol.com

In a message dated 12/28/01 7:50:09 PM Eastern Standard Time, rschaefe(a)gcfn.org writes: > I talked to a man named Jon Ikoniak at temple.edu in PA not too long ago. > Seems he has a large collection of old DEC gear he inherited from a > predecessor. He said that a lot of the complete units have been gobbled up, > but there are still a few racks > left, and lots of drives and parts. They appear to be free. I was planning > on posting his email address, but after the last virus I got from my buddy > s.ring, contact me off-list for email or a voice number. I would be interested in information. I actually live close by.

24 years, 6 months

1
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Tape drive needed

by fernande＠internet1.net

The other day I found a SCO Open Desktop 2.0.0 media kit, on Qic24 tape. I don't have the correct drive...... I don't have any tape drive experience, actually. Does anybody have an unneeded Qic24 SCSI tape drive? I checked Ebay and I didn't see anything that I thought was what I needed. I wish this were on cd..... that would be easy! Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA

24 years, 6 months

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Jumper settings needed for Heath H-27 disk controller

by erd_6502＠yahoo.com

As I've mentioned before, I have a Heathkit H-11 with standard Heathkit disk controller. The disk controller locks up the CPU if it's in place in the interrupt chain (it will begin the boot process if it's behind all the cards with a gap in the grant chain, but after loading the boot sector and turning on interrupts, the OS, naturally, won't run). So... I have tested all the TTL chips in a chip tester. What I can't test are the 88xx bus chips. From tracing the grant pins, I think the 8837 is what hangs off the interrupt lines. I have finally found some (unsoldered) loose replacements. What I still lack are schematics or at least a jumper map. The jumpers have been soldered and cut and resoldered before I received the card. As a result, I have no idea what they are supposed to be set at. Does anyone know the state of the jumpers for default operation? Thanks, -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com

24 years, 6 months

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Try it!!!! (Was - Re: One More PCB Dishwasher Question)

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

From: Ben Franchuk <bfranchuk(a)jetnet.ab.ca> >While you hear a lot about 'classic' common old CPU's -- apple, radio >shack, >commodore do people find any homebrewed computers did that all stop when >the S-100 bus came out? No, if anything the MITS box was the kickoff. Alllison

24 years, 6 months

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Interactive UNIX boxed set - free for shipping

by erd_6502＠yahoo.com

I have a set of disks and manuals for Interactive UNIX 2.0. I got it way back when my local ham radio club was big time into it. Linux eventually displaced Interactive as a favored distribution, but 10+ years ago, if you wanted SysV r3.2 for an i386, this was one of the best ways to do it. We used it largely for UUCP, but on more than one occasion, I used Vpix, the DOS environment emulator that ships as an option to Interactive UNIX, so I could run the Microsoft C compiler to produce some little command-line tool. By today's standards, it's a footnote of the OS wars. If, however, you want something which was representative of the times, it's a nice thing to have. I do not need it and am offering it to the list before discarding it. Free to good home; you pay shipping from 43202. It will be several pounds due to the quantity of paper. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com

24 years, 6 months

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Try it!!!! (Was - Re: One More PCB Dishwasher Question)

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On December 29, Bob Shannon wrote: > At Media 100 Inc, we make high-end video equipment, non-linear > editors. We use very fancy TXCO's, (+/-2 ppb) and they do not Oh My. If any of those should happen to "fall out", let me know. 8-) -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf

24 years, 6 months

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Try it!!!! (Was - Re: One More PCB Dishwasher Question)

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

If you consider 65f to 145f heat shocking significant then whatever you do don't turn on your PC. Seriously, that is not enough temp change and cycles, common temp shock testing {operating} is freezing water to 158F water {+70C} for many (usually hundreds of cycles). Usually the upper temp is not the operational limit but, the storage limit (in the 150C {300f} range!). Never minding what wave soldering a 16pin dip does in a room temp to molten solder step! For the average dishwasher that would likely be only one cycle of the 65-145F span as well. Again if your really that worried, don't. Reality is that anything that woud be that fussy is really fragile. The only examples of something I'd worry about down RI there is the PDP-12 a(maybe) and definatly the PB250{uses germainium transistors with low Tstorage and operating range, delay lines and other rare items}. Even then my viewing of both of those is they were very clean and not likely at issue. Allison -----Original Message----- From: William Donzelli <aw288(a)osfn.org> To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> Date: Saturday, December 29, 2001 3:05 PM Subject: Re: Try it!!!! (Was - Re: One More PCB Dishwasher Question) >> Not an issue as the temps are well blow boiling (nominal 145f). > >You missed the whole point. A sudden change (as in a second or so) from >65 F to 145 F will shock a chip far more than a gradual change (15 >seconds) from 65 F to 212 F. It is the rate of change, and not the >change itself, that matters. With hot water hitting the chips instantly, >the rate of change is going to be *really* fast. It may also be uneven - >if a large chip only gets half soaked with the hot water at startup. > >William Donzelli >aw288(a)osfn.org

24 years, 6 months

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What did you ask "Santa" for this year.... : )

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Jan 6, 16:33, SP wrote: ^^^^^^ Someone needs to set their clock... it was Dec 22, actually > One Dilog DQ614 driver disk for RT-11. I have > one of these boards inoperative because I can't > configure it. Was it Zane or Ethan who was also looking for this? Well, it's a bit late, but I have an extra Christmas present for you guys. You'll find the diagnostic and formatter program, along with a diagram of the board, and the jumper tables, at http://www.dunnington.u-net.com/public/DQ614/ It would have been done on Christmas Eve, but my RX02 drives needed a severe talking to, along with the 11/23 they are on. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

24 years, 6 months

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Wanted: One Specific Piece of Software

by r.stek＠snet.net

I may be jumping in late since I missed the original request (I get the digest version and don't always read them each day) but I have dBASE 5.5 with the compiler if that would help. Or do you need version 5 specifically? Bob Stek Saver of Lost Sols

24 years, 6 months

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Try it!!!! (Was - Re: One More PCB Dishwasher Question)

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

From: Bob Shannon <bshannon(a)tiac.net> >TXCO's come from the factory with special caps you place over them while >they go through the soldering oven (modern boards don't get wave soldered anymore). Older ones were effectively sealed units with a removable screw opening that was sealed with an O-ring. Those stand dishwaser just fine. Of course many computers never have anything like a TCXO on them. >Failing to place these protective caps over the TXCO's when they go through the >wash cycle leads to a drifting oscillator that very often fails soon after its in >the field. This is to be expected with any sealed part or temperature sensitive part. Then again a reflow oven is far hotter than a dishwasher. >As the focus of the list is older machines, we need to keep things in mild like >paper roll caps, etc. Advising that running old boards through the dishwasher, >while sometimes safe, is not an absolutely safe thing to do. Actually caps like that are likely to have failed from age by now. Systems that used them are likely quite old and not of the easily dishwashed contruction for mechanical reasons other than components used. >I do agree that most often, semi-modern boards will survive the process, but there >are many components that will not. These components used to be much more common >than they are today. But as the discussion relates to this older technology, any >reccomendation to run the boards through a dishwasher should address the very real >risks. Modern as in PDP-8/11/ and vax series, flip chip and similar are certainly cleanable this way and likely were in the factory back then too. Older modular constuction of a more hand wired era may be not suitable. Then again most of the DEC wirewrapped backplanes would likely survive a dishwash but, it may be ill advised as they are mechanically fragile as those that have worked with them know. >How hot was the water? I don't know, its not something I can easily control. Is >is possible that the 'dishwashers' used for this function commercially have been >altered, and/or are connected to a lower temprature source of water? I do know >that dishes come out a bit too hot to handel unless you open the door and allow >them to cool. Generally domestic hotwater never exceeds 160f due to scalding risks for the users. Some dishwasers have reheaters to compensate for low domestic water temps but they still only shoot for 160ish (F) max, and often that can be turned off by using the economy cycle. The bake dry cycle should be avoided if there is one (or too warm). One thing we ar not talking about is temps near boiling (212f) or water that hot. >I do know its a heck of a lot hotter than any bath, after all, there is a heater >element inside the dishwasher. Usually for dry cycle, sometimes powered to compensate for low domestic water temps. Econco cyle turns if off more often than no. bath water is maybe 105-115f (Very hot!) FYI. People are susceptable to harm with water over 130f. >I'm not sure its a temprature issue, as some have assumed. A dishwasher may have >very powerful waterjets and a lot of vibration. The dammage may be mechanical, >possibly a bonding wire detachment. No, internal bonds for the parts can take that shock and likely 10X that all day. External bonds??? We are talking soldered boards not wire wrap or really old MIL spotwelded. >But I'd like to point out once again that there are a good number of components >that will be dammaged by water. Some of these have been listed in posts here >already. If we accept that some components cannot be washed in this way, how can >anyone defend a blanket statement that using a dishwasher on a board will be safe >for that board? Most of the components are of the "open" contruction and not suitable or the problem of assuring they will dry needs addressing. The average printed circuit construction used in computers often does not contain them or they are designed to allow for that kind of cleaning. Parts I worry about and see: Pots (variable resistors of enclosed design) small relays of non hermetic design DIP switches (may need replacing anyway) Power upplies in general, (other than potted units). >All those tiny little pulse transfromers on your core memory sense amplifiers, do >you know those are able to withstand this treatment? Many are not fully >encapsulated, and would not be safe to treat this way. Some components (like >crystals, not oscillators, just quartz crystals) cannot even be soldered safely, >and are socketed for this reason. Is it s good idea to run these through your >dishwasher? Soldering is high stress compared to 160f water. Also of they are socketed then by all means unplug them first then was the board. Most quartz crystals however are hermetic and can withstand significant amounts of heat. Again oen design parts have to be evaluated, most tolerate wetting well if properly dried before use. A core memory sense board fo the PDP-8e/f/m design and era tolerate this very well, then again they are of modern design. I have done it to several with at least one comming out working where it didnt' before! Cleaning prior to troubleshoot was to make life easier in that case but instead removed whatever debrie causing the inital problem. Something from the PB250 era would be more suspect, mostly due to a multitude of other reasons. I've done it as well to the PDP-8/f front pannel (rotary switch and many lamp sockets) with excellent results. It's still working well over two+ years later. >If your sure no components will be effected, go ahead and try your dishwasher. If >your not absolutely sure, or if replacement parts are hard to get, don't take the >risk, and use a little IPA and some elbow grease to clean your boards. That first half is fair advice, be sure first. The second half is faulty however as there are just as many parts that will not tolerate IPA for extended times or the residue that may be left behind if not adaquately rinsed. It's fair to use caution but, to be a nelly maid over it is usually not warrented. Allison

24 years, 6 months

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Try it!!!! (Was - Re: One More PCB Dishwasher Question)

by msell＠ontimesupport.com

For those who don't believe that it's okay - prove it to yourself. Here's how: 1) Pick a dirty, filthy board that somehow seems to work, and is worth very little to you 2) Make sure it doesn't have: a) relays b) large capacitors c) transformers d) iron-core inductors e) fragile labels or core memory 3) put it in your dishwasher by itself, with no detergent (just for testing), and turn off the plate warmer and dryer 4) wash it! 5) shake off excess water after cycle finishes 6) clean - isn't it? 6) hang up to dry indoors for several days 7) plug it in. Works, doesn't it?!! And clean, too !!!!! Don't take our words for it. Try it!!!! You'll be amazed at how clean the boards get, with so little effort on your part. - Matt At 11:22 AM 12/28/2001 -0600, you wrote: >On Fri, 28 Dec 2001, Bob Shannon wrote: > > > Never run boards through a dishwasher! > >Oh no, not this thread again :) Matthew Sell Programmer On Time Support, Inc. www.ontimesupport.com (281) 296-6066 Join the Metrology Software discussion group METLIST! http://www.ontimesupport.com/cgi-bin/mojo/mojo.cgi "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er...

24 years, 6 months

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Housecleaning-updated

by rcini＠optonline.net

Hello, all: Here's an update on my annual housecleaning. I've found a few more items which I've added to the list and I'm marking those which have been spoken for already. - AIM stuff - there are about 2-3 partial boards, 2 keyboards, 2 bases and 4 tops still available. - Books: * A Programmer's Viwe of the Intel 432 System (Organick) - still available * Inside Commodore DOS (Immers) - spoken for * MicroC/OS-II RTOS book with disk (Labrosse) - spoken for * Microcomputer Experimentation with the Motorola MEK6800D2 (Leventhal) - available * Motorola Microprocessor Software Catalog (1984) - available - Magazines: * Spare BYTE magazines: 1/82, 3/82, 4/82, 10/85 (2), 10/86, 11/86, 9/87. Condition is very good on some to fair on one. - Software: * MicroSolutions UniForm for the Epson QX-10 If anyone is interested in any of these remaining items, contact me off-list. I would prefer trades for these items. Thanks. Rich Rich Cini Collector of classic computers Build Master for the Altair32 Emulation Project Web site: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ /************************************************************/

24 years, 6 months

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SCO Open Desktop (was Re: Interesting find today!)

by fmc＠reanimators.org

Chad Fernandez <fernande(a)internet1.net> wrote: > I found a box of SCO Open Desktop 2.0.0. I don't know anything about At Wollongong, we had this installed on a ca. 1991 Compaq, something like a 386/20, with a monochrome VGA display. And yes, it did get most of its bits from the tape; we had an Everex QIC drive of some sort attached. I remember going through some grief to get it configured (more preceisely, re-configured after some biscuit of a QA engineer installed TWG's TCP/IP then decided he needed SCO's TCP/IP, which of course forced re-installation of the whole thing), but it was long enough ago to be on topic here and I no longer remember the details, except that I wrote them down and taped the paper to the tape drive which is long gone. Open Desktop is a SCO/Motif flavored X GUI. If you really want to use the GUI stuff, give it more oomph than Wollongong did: it was painfully slow on that Compaq. Along about 1995 the system was being used more for testing a "SCO ANSI" terminal emulation and I worked out how to make it not start X on boot, and it continued running that way (off in a corner with almost no attention) until April 1999 when Attachmate shut down the former Wollongong offices. -Frank McConnell

24 years, 6 months

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DQ614: was Re: What did you ask "Santa" ...

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Dec 28, 14:30, Zane H. Healy wrote: > Amazing! Now the question is, does anyone know which HD's will work with > this? I just might have to go digging through storage in the very near > future! The manual had a "non-exclusive" list of drives known to work; it suggested that just about anything should be OK. The formatter lets you set things like step pulse rate/seek time, heads, cylinders, etc. > The other question is, once the disk is formated, does it matter what you > use for an OS on it, or does it need to be RT-11? I was hoping to be able > to use this board for OS's that expect RL02's instead of MSCP disks. As far as I know, once the drive is formatted, it uses the standard driver. Assuming the formatting stores the setup details on the drive, I don't see why it shouldn't be possible to use another OS afterwards. I no longer have my DQ614, so I can't test it for you :-( -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

24 years, 6 months

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What did you ask "Santa" for this year.... : )

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Dec 28, 20:30, SP wrote: > I can't believe it. > > This success suppose to me to change some of my > thinkings about the life, the religion and other matters. > By example: Santa Claus exists ? Etcetera. > > But, by the moment, in case this driver works, I can put > you in my list of fortunate with one bottle of Red Wine > from Spain, variety Rioja. I hope it works -- I like Rioja! Seriously, let me know how you get on with it. Make sure the files you download are the right size. DQ614P.SAV should be exactly 27648 bytes and DL.SAV (which is the driver for RT-11 V5.04 *only*) should be exactly 2048 bytes. If they come out differently, either use Netscape on a Unix box to download, or ask me to put copies somewhere else for FTP. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

24 years, 6 months

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[rescue] Indigo sans front cover

by vance＠ikickass.org

Speaking of doors to SGI's, I am in need of a front door to a deskside Onyx. Peace... Sridhar On Fri, 28 Dec 2001, Bruce Pullig wrote: > Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 21:42:53 -0600 > From: Bruce Pullig <bruce(a)pullig.com> > Reply-To: rescue(a)sunhelp.org > To: SunRescue <rescue(a)sunhelp.org> > Subject: Re: [rescue] Indigo sans front cover > > I found my Indigo front door. (has XS24 on the front) If you want it, let > me know where to ship it. > > Bruce > > -- > Bruce, Lorelei & Nathaniel Pullig > bruce(a)pullig.com > lorelei(a)pullig.com > nathaniel(a)pullig.com > www.pullig.com, www.pullig.org > _______________________________________________ > rescue maillist - rescue(a)sunhelp.org > http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/rescue >

24 years, 6 months

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*DUH* Unibus KZQSA - try QBUS

by msell＠ontimesupport.com

Told you I was "DEC Challenged".... KZQSA is Q-BUS, not Unibus.... (sigh) - Matt Matthew Sell Programmer On Time Support, Inc. www.ontimesupport.com (281) 296-6066 Join the Metrology Software discussion group METLIST! http://www.ontimesupport.com/cgi-bin/mojo/mojo.cgi "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er...

24 years, 6 months

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Power Series

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Tothwolf [mailto:tothwolf@concentric.net] > The video really was nice for its day, but a lack of texture memory > somewhat limits it for today's graphics intensive software. Well, on one hand, yes, but on the other hand, I like my Indigo 2 Elan with no texture memory just fine. I'm also considering trying to dig up a reality engine for the thing, at which point it would have texture memory. > What color is the wrap-around part on the front/top of the > machine? The > standard colors that I'm familiar with are; blue for a VGX, > red for a GTX, > and green for GT. It's blue. Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

24 years, 6 months

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add-on CPU load meters

by brian＠quarterbyte.com

There was an analog CPU meter on a PDP 11/70 in the Computer Graphics Lab at UC San Francisco back in the late 70's. The meter was mounted in the middle of a large black & beige plastic rack fill-in plate. I thought it was hilarious, and very cool. It has to be an analog meter. I dimly remember seeing the schematic. The meter was wired up as a dwell meter, and hooked up to some signal in the CPU that indicated that it was running, or at least running usefully. I can't remember if it was the user-mode bit, or "not wait". IIRC Unix V7 ran an idle process so the CPU never waited. I think it was the user-mode bit. Anyway, the circuit was simple. They buffered the CPU signal, smoothed it through a resistor and a capacitor, and that drove the panel meter. You just have to work out the appropriate values for the series resistor, capacitor and load resistor to get appropriate scaling and timing. I've always wanted one... wonder if there's an appropriate pin to monitor on a TBird?

24 years, 6 months

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AVAILABLE-- PDP, DEC parts

by rschaefe＠gcfn.org

I talked to a man named Jon Ikoniak at temple.edu in PA not too long ago. Seems he has a large collection of old DEC gear he inherited from a predecessor. He said that a lot of the complete units have been gobbled up, but there are still a few racks left, and lots of drives and parts. They appear to be free. I was planning on posting his email address, but after the last virus I got from my buddy s.ring, contact me off-list for email or a voice number. ja ne Bob

24 years, 6 months

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NCD 88k Boot monitor

by darek-ss＠wp.pl

Hi, I've got recently 2 old, but very good NCD Xstations 88k & 88kP6 based on Motorola 88100 processor. It looks great, much better than what they are selling know :-) But unfortunately they are without Boot Manager EPROMS ... Does anyone could help me and tell where I can find such EPROM or just the image file which I can use to program one ? As far as I know BM from HMX & HMXPro doesn't work because it is made for R4xxx processor. Darek ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Tylko przez Nowy Kontakt porozmawiasz przez inne komunikatory! Poznaj 100mln nowych znajomych! Kliknij! < http://kontakt.wp.pl >

24 years, 6 months

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