- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

Computers Manufactured in 1986

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Ben Franchuk [mailto:bfranchuk@jetnet.ab.ca] > Andy Berg wrote: > > COLOR COMPUTER 3 Tandy Radio Shack > yep! This should have been upgraded with a real keyboard and > 80 column > characters > and a HD and sold as real computer not a toy. I'd forgotten the ridiculous keyboard. :) You're right, though. 512K wasn't far off from what other systems had, and the thing certainly had nicer graphics and sound than most peesees of the day. It wasn't hard, of course, to give it a hard drive, a real keyboard, etc. Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

24 years, 2 months

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Recent 'Professional Forum' spam

by jpl15＠panix.com

Hmmmm... "SewerTalk" might not be too far off the mark for this list, sometimes.. ;} Cheers John

24 years, 2 months

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FT: Applied MicroSystms Corp EP-68000 Emulator Probe

by rigdonj＠cfl.rr.com

I have the probe for an Applied MicroSystms Corp EP-68000 Emulator but I don't have the emulator so I'd like to trade it for the probe for an Applied MicroSystms Corp EM-180B Z-80 Emulator that I do have. The 68000 probe is about 8 x 5 x 1 1/2" inches in size and has two 68 pin ribbon cables on one end that connect to the emulator and two short cables on the other end that terminate with 64 pin DIP plug that replaces the CPU in the target system. The DIP plug is included. It is plugged into a machined pin socket in order to protect it's lead so the leads are all in perfect condition. If anyone has the Z-80 probe and wants to trade contact me directy other wise this goes to E-OverPay. I've posted pictures of the 68000 probe and Z-80 emulator at <http://www.classiccmp.org/hp/ams/ams-z80.jpg> Joe

24 years, 2 months

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Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP-8))

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Douglas H. Quebbeman [mailto:dquebbeman@acm.org] > As before, no disagreement, I just think those things come built-in... > except for the chant, and for that "down, not across" coupled with > shaking an etherkiller at the thing, should be sufficient... ...but using the "built in" incense can have detrimental effects on performance. :) Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

24 years, 2 months

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Old Computers

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Torquil MacCorkle III [mailto:torquil@rockbridge.net] > So after a lot of deliberation over the Computers in 1986 > thread. I > decided on some that would work for me. I've forgotten two important ones from my list. One was the Apple II GS, of course. You can find the other here: http://www.scd.ucar.edu/computers/gallery/cray/xmp/xmp.html Space and power permitting, of course... :) Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

24 years, 2 months

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Technical Forums

by talk-lists2＠civilnews.com

You are invited to join... WaterTalk StormTalk SewerTalk ...three new Technical Forums for water resource professionals. These forums will keep you up-to-date with the latest tips and tricks in hydraulic and hydrologic modeling. Post your engineering questions and share your unique modeling experiences with a global audience of thousands of professionals. Learn more and sign up at the link below... http://www.haestad.com/e/m.asp?d=49&m=020328DGb Not part of the Civil Engineering community? Click the link below to remove classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org from our list... http://www.haestad.com/e/m.asp?d=27&e=classiccmp@classiccmp.org&m=020328DGb Or, reply to this message and change the subject to " stop ". LSID: 11546-390145

24 years, 2 months

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Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP-8))

by dquebbeman＠acm.org

> > From: Douglas H. Quebbeman [mailto:dquebbeman@acm.org] > > > Chris Smith and I were discussing repair techniques offline, and the > > above were amongst the discussed techniques. > > > However, I prefer erecting totems next to the troublesome devices... > > I still maintain the usefulness of runestones, incense, and rituals > involving chant and the drawing of "signs of power" around > the device. As before, no disagreement, I just think those things come built-in... except for the chant, and for that "down, not across" coupled with shaking an etherkiller at the thing, should be sufficient... -Douglas Hurst Quebbeman (DougQ at ixsnayamspayIgLou.com) [Call me "Doug"] Surgically excise the pig-latin from my e-mail address in order to reply "The large print giveth, and the small print taketh away." -Tom Waits

24 years, 2 months

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Computers Manufactured in 1986

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Torquil MacCorkle III [mailto:torquil@rockbridge.net] > Pardon the ignorance here, > But which would you guys consider to be the most modernly > functional one > of the 1986 bunch? > (What I am trying to do together here is get a setup of only > stuff made in > 1986.... It'd be neat to have a system exactly the same age as me :)) Well, here's my list: AT&T Unix PC. 512k to 4M of ram [usually 1M], 40 to 60M hard drive, all in one system with a monochrome green screen, removable keyboard, and 3 button mouse. It also had a 5.25" floppy. It ran Unix SystemV R 3.0 or 3.5, I vaguely remember a port of some other system to run on it. Check some of the web pages you can find. There was a built in graphical windowing system, dynamically loadable drivers, and if you could get the ethernet board, or extra serial ports, you could run multi-user configurations. It could read/write (through special bundled software) MS-DOS disks, and there was also a DOS board for it with an 8088 CPU or something like that, and some RAM to let it actually run DOS, and DOS apps. These are pretty cool. See if you can google yourself a picture of one. :) Next: If you don't mind being something like a year off -- it was likely in prototype stage in 86, but released in 87 -- VAXStaion 2000 would be an excellent choice, too. It is a small (literally the size of a large lunchbox) VAX, with a built-in b&w framebuffer (for VWS, or X11), can accommodate an internal disk of up to 150M, and memory or (my memory is somewhat fuzzy on this) 8 or 12M, but you usually see it with something like 4M of RAM. You can also (if you use a lower-capacity, half height hard disk) fit a 1.2M floppy drive in there. There is a special inch- high expansion that screws on to the bottom of the unit to give it an external plug for another disk, and a tape drive (95 or so MB tk50). I believe it will run VMS, Ultrix, or possibly NetBSD. I would (and do on mine) run VMS on it, though. For a graphical workstation (that will actually plug into the wall! SGI didn't at the time), this is from Intergraph's page -- it ran a Unix-oid called CLIX: http://www.intergraph.com/ingrhistory80s.htm In 1986, at the Design Automation Conference, Intergraph introduced the InterPro 32C - the industry's first workstation with a processing speed of 5 million instructions per second (MIPS). This RISC-based computer was powered by the Clipper C100 chip from Fairchild Semiconductor and offered workstation performance that was five times more powerful than the VAX-11/780. Two separate 4K byte cache memory management units were linked to the CPU chip via a dual, dedicated 32-bit bus architecture. The unique combination of cache design and size provided for unparalleled instruction processing speed. The Clipper processor utilized the UNIX System V operating system. The second processor, an Intel 80186, was the I/O processor. And an Intergraph Raster Operations Processor executed the graphics commands and display operations. Then for the normal stuff, you may want to also consider: The Amiga 1000 (Launched in the UK that year...) Atari 1040STF (These had a GUI in the ROM, but didn't multitask without an add-on) The Tandy TRS-80 "Color Computer 3" (Not as impressive as the Amiga or Atari, but they're cool, especially if you have disk and tape interfaces, and perhaps a copy of OS-9) I have wanted one of these for a while, myself. Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

24 years, 2 months

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WTB: Old Computers

by mythtech＠mac.com

> So after a lot of deliberation over the Computers in 1986 thread. I >decided on some that would work for me. > > If anyone has one of the following please let me know: > >Apple IIgs I (along with probably many others), can deal you an Apple IIgs if you wish. However, I do NOT have any complete systems I can part with, just CPUs (I own only one complete system, so that is mine, but I aquired 4 CPUs not so long ago, and they are currently just taking up space in my garage). I might also have either 3.5" and/or 5.25" drives to go with the CPUs (I have to check what is in the box). But I know for a fact that I do not have any monitors or keyboards or mice (although, in all 3 cases, generic Mac equipment will work, ie: any RGB monitor will work, or a plain composite monitor, and any ADB mouse and keyboard will work) -chris <http://www.mythtech.net>

24 years, 2 months

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The Future End of Classic Computing

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Ron Hudson [mailto:rhudson@cnonline.net] > Is there a simple boilerplate message I can send to my > congress critters (not that it will do any good with > Ms Fienstein or Boxer) to lodge my protest. Of course, if you're going to mail your congress-things, you may as well send copies to them as well. > I am against piracy, I think Napster has brought all this > down upon us because of the few who refuse to see it for > what it was, theft. You can't blame napster for the stupidity of politicians in the US. You can only blame the politicians, their parents, or the idiots who elected (or appointed!) them. That said, also, in defense of napster, as far as I am concerned, they were providing a service, and the fact that people chose to use it for what amounts to theft under law does not make napster guilty of theft. That's simply a case of the recording industry (for the most part) attempting to find somebody big enough to make them a lot of cash on the incident. After all, it wouldn't do them any good to prosecute their customers, who were, in fact, the actual "guilty" parties. Perhaps everyone would get along better if they spent the money they pay to buy stupid laws on customer relations. Enough on that subject, though, since it doesn't relate directly. > Oh, I suppose since I can re-compile Linux any time I want > and can change the code however I like Linux will **never** > get the stamp of government approval... ... and what will happen to "embedded" type systems? I certainly hope that I never end up having to include crap like this in a project that contains only 64k of ram. Honestly, I'm sure if it comes to that, I can find another place to live. Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

24 years, 2 months

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WTB: Old Computers

by torquil＠rockbridge.net

Hi, So after a lot of deliberation over the Computers in 1986 thread. I decided on some that would work for me. If anyone has one of the following please let me know: Sharp X1 Turbo III Sharp X1 Turbo Z Sony Hit-Bit 500 Thomson TO 9 PLUS Apple IIgs ELORG Agat 9 Excelvision Exeltel Thanks, torquil

24 years, 2 months

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The Future End of Classic Computing

by dquebbeman＠acm.org

> Wrong. 4500+ copies is "mass distribution." > > http://www.usatoday.com/life/cyber/tech/2002/03/29/video-bootleg.htm > > In any event, the DMCA was intended to address not only > those who distribute copies, but those who provide > "circumvention devices" that enable others to engage > in mass distribution. Doesn't it make as much sense to > go after those involved in "mass distribution" > of the circumvention device, such as DeCSS? I just read the article... the person convicted was using what I believe is an *analog* device... but I suppose the difference between a digital device and an analog device won't matter to the Supreme Court. Now, this guy was *way* wrong... but he could have been prosecuted under any number of preexisting laws. Locally, a guy did this over 20 years ago with audio tapes (cassettes), was busted by the FBI, but worked out a deal, and not only didn't do jail time, but is considered the Premier Merchant locally for audio software... -dq -Douglas Hurst Quebbeman (DougQ at ixsnayamspayIgLou.com) [Call me "Doug"] Surgically excise the pig-latin from my e-mail address in order to reply "The large print giveth, and the small print taketh away." -Tom Waits

24 years, 2 months

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The Future End of Classic Computing

by dquebbeman＠acm.org

> Wrong. 4500+ copies is "mass distribution." > > http://www.usatoday.com/life/cyber/tech/2002/03/29/video-bootleg.htm > > In any event, the DMCA was intended to address not only those > who distribute copies, but those who provide "circumvention devices" > that enable others to engage in mass distribution. Doesn't it make as > much sense to go after those involved in "mass distribution" > of the circumvention device, such as DeCSS? When everyone realizes the inaudability of what would be lost if they used straight analog audio paths for copying, and thus they finally give up on digital copying, will the Entertainment Industry lobby for a AMCA? Will Radio Shack get busted for selling patch cords? DMCA is ridiculous. -Douglas Hurst Quebbeman (DougQ at ixsnayamspayIgLou.com) [Call me "Doug"] Surgically excise the pig-latin from my e-mail address in order to reply "The large print giveth, and the small print taketh away." -Tom Waits

24 years, 2 months

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What editions of the VAX Hardware Reference are there?

by Antonio.Carlini＠riverstonenet.com

> Gunther Schadow wrote: > > >I am looking for VAX Hardware Reference for the VAX 11/780, 11/785, >86x0, the uVAX-II, and then the VAX 6000s. I suspect that's not all >in one book. But, what revisions of the Hardware Reference are there >anyway? I think the first edition is the 1978/1979, at least my >VAX Architecture Handbook bears this date. I understand that the >"Handbooks" were a 3-volume series, with volume 1 Architecture, >vol 2 Harware and vol 3 Software (VMS). I assume that they threw >out old models in more recent editions, right? Could we reconstruct >which topics are described in which edition of the Hardware Handbook? There are lots of handbooks. I have: - VAX Architecture 1981 - VAX 11/780 Hardware Handbook 1979/80 - VAX 11/780 Architecture Handbook 1977-78 - VAX Hardware Handbook 1982-83 (the above all cover the VAX 11/7xx series only) - VAX Hardware Handbook 1986 Volume 1 - VAX Hardware Handbook 1986 Volume 2 - MicroVAX Systems Handbook - VAX Systems Handbook - UNIBUS Systems - VAX Systems Handbook - VAXBI Systems There are probably further editions. I'd say the technical content went down as time went on but they do all at least provide a user-level overview. >One can't buy those any more, how does that influence the right to >compile and share copies? I wonder if one could archive the >Hardware handbooks by subject and that way compile a single volume >with complete coverage of all VAXen. DFWCUG ( http://montagar.com/~patj/dec/hcps.htm ) are scanning stuff. I've not seen any handbooks yet but you could try contacting them and seeing how far they have got to date. They do have the covers of many handbooks available. I know that one of their problems was finding a way of removing the book spine cleanly (to feed the book through a sheet feed scanner). If you try http://www.decdocs.org you see a bunch of links to other sites, some of which have a few handbooks available in various forms (although I don't think the handbooks you want are online anywhere I have seen). >Besides, there is a mystical "Perepherial Handbook" to which I have >seen reference once, but never any copy in bookstores, catalogues or >on eBay. Did it ever exist? Was it volume 4 of the series? What >items were covered over the years in there? There is a Peripherals handbook (for the cover see: http://montagar.com/~patj/dec/pdp11/index.htm ) There were several editions, one every couple of years. These handbooks (which were not really a series as such) were marketing collateral. They were put together by marketing either to give away on customer visits, or to sell on. They should not be relied on too heavily for technical information (except, I suppose, in the absence of a real technical manual). Antonio

24 years, 2 months

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Soldering and other skills

by root＠diablonet.net

Hi there! I've been following the thread kind of loosely on the digest, and although I really have no way of knowing how much time you're spending around a soldering iron, I would strongly guess that you have nothing to worry about from even relatively frequent soldering as long as you're not doing something wierd like soldering in a small closet with the door closed for hours on end every day or melting down spools and huffing them... :) Solder's been around for quite a while, and I'm sure if there was some sort of real health risk, it would have been common knowledge by now. I know tons of people including my father, uncles, and old co-workers who have spent, cumulatively, months and months behind soldering irons in labs and shops, and I believe they are all still entirely sane! Kind regards, Sean -- Sean Caron http://www.diablonet.net scaron(a)engin.umich.edu root(a)diablonet.net

24 years, 2 months

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Wanted: IBM Mag Card Composer, Electronic Selectric Composer or IBM 5100 or 5110

by gkaplan63＠hotmail.com

I collect the IBM Composer line of typesetting equipment. If anyone has or knows of any IBM Composers, I can provide them with a good home. I'm interested in any Composer related documentation as well. Also looking for: IBM 5100 or 5110 in working condition IBM Mag Card typewriters IBM Memory typewriters IBM Electronic typewriters (model 50 or 95) IBM 3101 terminal Thanks! Gerry

24 years, 2 months

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Computers Manufactured in 1986

by healyzh＠aracnet.com

> IBM RS/6000? Kaypro 2000? I think the RS/6000 is much later. As for the Kaypro 2000 you could buy those starting in '85 I believe, I got mine in '87. Zane

24 years, 2 months

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Laser computers

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

This is just a heads-up, but i'm looking for a replacement for the first PC I owned. It was a Laser XTSL, a 10mhz XT with dual 720k drives, 1meg and no hard drive. Bought it from sears along with an RGB monitor back in 1990 or so for around $400 and ran prodigy on it with a 1200bps modem! It was a pretty neat XT class machine even if I never did have a hard drive or a 5.25 drive.

24 years, 2 months

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What editions of the VAX Hardware Reference are there?

by gunther＠aurora.regenstrief.org

Hi, I am looking for VAX Hardware Reference for the VAX 11/780, 11/785, 86x0, the uVAX-II, and then the VAX 6000s. I suspect that's not all in one book. But, what revisions of the Hardware Reference are there anyway? I think the first edition is the 1978/1979, at least my VAX Architecture Handbook bears this date. I understand that the "Handbooks" were a 3-volume series, with volume 1 Architecture, vol 2 Harware and vol 3 Software (VMS). I assume that they threw out old models in more recent editions, right? Could we reconstruct which topics are described in which edition of the Hardware Handbook? One can't buy those any more, how does that influence the right to compile and share copies? I wonder if one could archive the Hardware handbooks by subject and that way compile a single volume with complete coverage of all VAXen. Besides, there is a mystical "Perepherial Handbook" to which I have seen reference once, but never any copy in bookstores, catalogues or on eBay. Did it ever exist? Was it volume 4 of the series? What items were covered over the years in there? regards, -Gunther -- Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D. gschadow(a)regenstrief.org Medical Information Scientist Regenstrief Institute for Health Care Adjunct Assistant Professor Indiana University School of Medicine tel:1(317)630-7960 http://aurora.regenstrief.org

24 years, 2 months

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The Future End of Classic Computing

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Doc [mailto:doc@mdrconsult.com] > Please, please don't assume that the idiocy, the long-term impact on > innovation and economy, or even the legality of this bill have ANY > bearing on its likelihood of passing. Yep. > These puppet politicians really don't have a clue or a care what > they're sponsoring, and a lot of basically honest legislators are not > only absolutely illiterate concerning, but completely unaware > of, non-MS > computing and digital media technology in general. They can You're much more kind to them than I. I would have simply said they're treasonous, and have never heard of the US constitution. Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

24 years, 2 months

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"Re: The Future End of Classic Computing

by dquebbeman＠acm.org

> On Mon, 1 Apr 2002, Douglas H. Quebbeman wrote: > > > Doc's response seems to be typical- it sounds so outrageous > > that there's no way it could happen. > > Excuse me? My response was that if we don't mobilize en masse, and > quickly, it _will_ happen. Doc, I have a fever, and the unsend key isn't working. Sorry! It was Joe Rigdon's comment to which I was replying... > The Digital Millenium Copyright Act was no less ridiculous, and is now > Federal law. In the many times that law has been invoked, not one case > has involved the mass distribution pirates its proponents claimed to > target. Most have been people like Dmitri Slyarov, who simply dared to > speak out, and to demonstrate that ownership of an idea is moot. Agreed... now if they'd grabbed Martha Stewart, there'd be some action. > The Uniform Computer Information Transaction Act - UCITA bill - is > even more ludicrous, and is now law in two states. A roaring > grass-roots campaign against UCITA was credited with stopping it in > Texas. Whew! > All three bills, proposed or passed, have in common that they are > unenforceable, that they target and penalize the consumer in favor of > specialized corporate interests, that they are blatantly > unconstitutional in spirit if not in their letters, and that most of > their opponents do not take them seriously enough to act. > > The other thing these bills all have in common is that the special > interest groups who buy their introduction into our legislative system > will continue to pay for their reintroduction until their puppets are > censured in a way that matters. In cash, and in criminal prosecution. Around here, we'd tar, feather, then run them out of town on a rail. > Douglas, I expect that the mis-attribution was a benign mistake, so I > want to make it clear that I'm not jumping down your throat. Ok! But I wasn't putting Joe down, either... only pointing out that we're preachin' to the choir here, folks... > But I WILL NOT be misunderstood in this. The very possibility of a > travesty like the CBDTPA becoming the law of the land is my worst > nightmare come to life. It has nothing to do with my computers, > my music recordings, or my movies. It has everything to do with the > idea that any coalition with enough cash and lawyers can today buy > any oppression of the people that they desire, with impunity, and > without any need to even disguise their actions. This is the Tyranny of the Majority that Publius warned us of. Again, sorry, I spent too much time in the mold den this weekend recovering old moldy Prime manuals. That deadly black mold you hear about... -dq

24 years, 2 months

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IBM 1620

by geoff＠pkworks.com

-----Original Message----- From: Marvin Johnston <marvin(a)rain.org> To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> Date: Monday, April 01, 2002 5:38 PM Subject: IBM 1620 > >Take a look at Yahoo vintage auctions to find the "IBM 1620 CENTRAL >PROCESSING UNIT, MANUAL 1964" at >http://page.auctions.shopping.yahoo.com/auction/63778516?aucview=0x10 > >The current price with no bidders is $3.50. Gee, thanks for the spam. Save your money and download it for free from: http://www.spies.com/~aek/pdf/ibm/A26-4500-2_1620ref_Jul61.pdf

24 years, 2 months

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Soldering and other skills

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On April 1, Sean Caron wrote: > I've been following the thread kind of loosely on the digest, and > although I really have no way of knowing how much time you're > spending around a soldering iron, I would strongly guess that you > have nothing to worry about from even relatively frequent soldering > as long as you're not doing something wierd like soldering in a > small closet with the door closed for hours on end every day or > melting down spools and huffing them... :) You mean that's not safe? Uh-oh. -Dave -- Dave McGuire "...it's leaving me this unpleasant, St. Petersburg, FL damp feeling on my shorts..." -Sridhar

24 years, 2 months

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The Future End of Classic Computing

by dougq＠iglou.com

The End of Classic Computing, and in fact, the end of Computing as a hobby for almost all of us, is on the table in the U.S. Congress in the form of The Consumer Broadband and Digital Television Promotion Act (CBDTPA). This insidious bill would strike at the very heart of this community, the software that keeps our ClassicComputers running, unless we or someone incorporates anti-pirating measures. Now, if that sounded inflammatory, it should. It's not quite accurate either. The bill will cover only software created from the time of the bill's passage and on into the future. The stuff we play with now would therefore be exempt. There appears to be a loophole for stuff you do that you never distribute. There also appears to be a loophole for computers that do not contain microprocessors. But there would be a horizon coming soon. If the bill is passed, computers and software being developed now, once 10 years old, might be on-topic, but you'd be breaking federal law to share software. Sponsored by someone who must surely be certifiably insane, one Senator Fritz Hollings of South Carolina, if you want more information, see: http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,51274,00.html This will require lots of work to defeat, I think, as the politicians have bought into the fantasy that a pirated copy of something conctitutes a lost sale. A true emperor's fine new clothes scneario... Regards, -dq -- -Douglas Hurst Quebbeman (dougq(a)iglou.com) [Call me "Doug"] "The large print giveth, and the small print taketh away." -Tom Waits

24 years, 2 months

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The Future End of Classic Computing

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner [mailto:spc@conman.org] > > What issue is there? If they don't like copyright as it was > > originally defined, fine. Abolish it. That's fair, and everyone's > > still on equal ground. :) > Not quite so easy here in the States. From the > Constitution of the United > States, Article 1, Section 8: I was basically being sarcastic. The point being that it's ridiculous for them to make demands to the effect that copyright be extended into eternity, just as it would be for somebody to demand that it be abolished completely. Either way, the purpose of copyright is defeated. :) > > I think Mr. Schiff ought to be required to reimburse the government > > for the salaries (plus usage of buildings, etc) of all the people > > whose time he wastes with his bill. That ought to be > enough to spend > > all the money that some companies are paying him for it, > plus his own > > salary, and make him get a job at McDonalds to make ends meet. > I think you're being kind. Probably. > -spc (He and the Honorable Hollings (cough) should be > tossed out and > not allowed to hold public office for at least 12 years ... ) I imagine lifetime would be more appropriate. They've shown -- beyond any doubt, as far as I can see -- that they haven't got the character required to perform the duties which public office would require of them. Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

24 years, 2 months

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Soldering and other skills (was Re: QL-Quality (Was: ZX-81 Question))

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On April 1, Chad Fernandez wrote: > How much lead does solder dor electronics contain? I thought only > solder for pipes contained lead? Nope. Solder for electronics us usually around 60% lead. You're probably thinking of acid core vs. rosin core. -Dave -- Dave McGuire "...it's leaving me this unpleasant, St. Petersburg, FL damp feeling on my shorts..." -Sridhar

24 years, 2 months

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Unix disk images and archiving

by cdl＠proxima.ucsd.edu

> Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 20:27:57 -0500 > To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org > From: Jeff Hellige <jhellige(a)earthlink.net> > Subject: Re: Unix disk images and archiving > Sender: owner-classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org > Reply-To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org > > >As I recall from experience upgrading a Cube from a 68030 to a 68040 > >CPU board, NS 1.0a and earlier would not boot on the 68040. They were > >written without knowledge of the future differences between a 68040 and > >a 68030, which are significant at the system stack level. Just something > >to think about. > > Will 2.X boot on an '040? I knew that 1.X and below won't > work on the '040 but thought that it applied to 2.X as well. My main > reason for wanting to archive all the OD distributions that I have is > because it's quite easy to come up with a CD of 3.X but rarely do you > ever hear about someone with the earlier versions and they need to be > archived while there are still a few of the finicky optical drives > still functioning. When I got my 68040 Cube upgrade kit it came with a motherboard and an OD of NeXTstep 2.0, and a NeXT SIMM-puller tool. And some instructions about the sequence in which to change things. All this information is coming out of my occasionally fallible memory. But I'm sure that I was using NS 2.0 and 2.1 long before I had a CD reader. carl

24 years, 2 months

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The Future End of Classic Computing

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Douglas H. Quebbeman [mailto:dquebbeman@acm.org] > Adam Schiff, another congressman from California, is proposing > a similiar law. Adam has stated that he doesn't expect the law to > pass, but that its sole purpose is to gain leverage against the > high-tech industry regarding the copyright issue and in favor of > the entertainments industry. > In other words, they we'll all be sufficiently scared that > we'll finally > give up some ground in the copyright issue. What ground is left > to give up? They've already lengthened the terms of protection > when they should have been shortening them. What issue is there? If they don't like copyright as it was originally defined, fine. Abolish it. That's fair, and everyone's still on equal ground. :) None of this "insert exception [a] into loophole [b]" crap. Do I deserve extra protection because my work is easier to duplicate? I think not. > To my way of thinking, that constitutes abuse of process, and makes > Fritz Hollings and Adam Schiff not merely traitors, but > persona non grata. I think Mr. Schiff ought to be required to reimburse the government for the salaries (plus usage of buildings, etc) of all the people whose time he wastes with his bill. That ought to be enough to spend all the money that some companies are paying him for it, plus his own salary, and make him get a job at McDonalds to make ends meet. Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

24 years, 2 months

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OT: MS/Unisys Have Made My Day

by doc＠mdrconsult.com

Y'all please excuse the blatantly off-topicness. But this one is Just Too Good. http://news.com.com/2100-1001-872266.html The M$ foot gets another dose of lead. Doc

24 years, 2 months

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Soldering and other skills (was Re: QL-Quality (Was: ZX-81 Question))

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On April 1, Stan Barr wrote: > I've been soldering now for around 45 years, and I used to do a lot > of bullet casting so I've handled a *lot* of lead in my time. > I was taken ill a few years ago with some symptons that could be > remotely explained by heavy metal poisoning so I was thoroughly tested. > My lead levels were right on the average for someone living in an > urban environment. So if you're sensible I don't see a problem. > Don't eat sandwiches while you're soldering...and wash your hands when > you're done ;-) Lead in gasoline (petrol over here) was a bigger > problem. What did those heavy metal teste involve, if you don't mind my asking? > Resin flux is a known carcinogen, so don't breathe the fumes. Oh, yuck, I didn't know that...I think I'll invest in one of those filtered blowers. -Dave -- Dave McGuire "...it's leaving me this unpleasant, St. Petersburg, FL damp feeling on my shorts..." -Sridhar

24 years, 2 months

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QL-Quality (Was: ZX-81 Question)

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk [mailto:ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk] > IIRC, this discussion started when I pointed out that the > fact that the > QL was on one PCB didn't make it hard to do repairs -- just > solder in a > new chip. The QL is all pin-through-hole DIP chips, the type > that's the > easiest to repalce. And yet people still moaned about my comments... Well, if it makes you feel better, I agree. I certainly would solder a DIP if it became necessary. I have done similar things (the power supply connector on my DEC Multia mainboard, which is about the same spacing), even on new machines, with no problem. (Yes, the Multia works now) Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

24 years, 2 months

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6809 single board computer (was: "New" PDP-8)

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On April 1, Tony Duell wrote: > In the UK, just about every colour TV has a SCART socket. This gives you > composite (PAL) colour (or monochrome, of course) and analogue RGB inputs > at TV scan rates. Hey, that is *cool*! > Is it really that hard to find a TV-rate monochrome monitor? Surely > they're still used for video applications. OK, you don't find them in the > local PC shop, but then you don't find much of use there. NTSC monitors are everywhere in the US...both CRT and LCD... -Dave -- Dave McGuire "...it's leaving me this unpleasant, St. Petersburg, FL damp feeling on my shorts..." -Sridhar

24 years, 2 months

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QL-Quality (Was: ZX-81 Question)

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk [mailto:ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk] > But soldering in a new chip is, to me, about the same 'skill > level' as > patching a system program written in a high level language. > Which I most > certainly have done, and which I suspect many others here > have done too. I agree with that, though, if a socket will fit, it's generally a better thing to solder a new socket, and just put the chip in ;) Many others have probably soldered new chips too. :) I think that several people on this list already have basic soldering skills. It's just when it gets more advanced than that, the skills are not there. Most people I know can solder some, but they need more practice to be very competent. It's just a question of degree. Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

24 years, 2 months

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Looking for...

by zmerch＠30below.com

Rumor has it that Sridhar the POWERful may have mentioned these words: > >Anyone know where I might be able to find a Tandy 4000? It's the >Microchannel Tandy. Are you sure? I worked for Tandy as a salesman during that timeframe, and the *only* Tandy that I know of that was ever MicroChannel was the Tandy 5000MC (gee, guess what the MC stood for... ;-) And guess what the 5000 stood for: the cost... IIRC they were $4999 each! (I cannot confirm... the catalogs that I have that listed those are packed away, so others will have to jump in here...) Methinks a goodly chunk of that was IBM's licensing of the buss... HTH, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* be your first career choice.

24 years, 2 months

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Looking for...

by vance＠ikickass.org

Anyone know where I might be able to find a Tandy 4000? It's the Microchannel Tandy. Peace... Sridhar

24 years, 2 months

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The Future End of Classic Computing

by dquebbeman＠acm.org

>From the subjectline, I see this post *finally* made it... I was beginning to think Jack Valenti was censoring me... > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Doc [mailto:doc@mdrconsult.com] > > > Please, please don't assume that the idiocy, the long-term impact on > > innovation and economy, or even the legality of this bill have ANY > > bearing on its likelihood of passing. > > Yep. > > > These puppet politicians really don't have a clue or a care what > > they're sponsoring, and a lot of basically honest legislators are not > > only absolutely illiterate concerning, but completely unaware of, non-MS > > computing and digital media technology in general. They can > > You're much more kind to them than I. I would have simply > said they're treasonous, and have never heard of the US > constitution. Adam Schiff, another congressman from California, is proposing a similiar law. Adam has stated that he doesn't expect the law to pass, but that its sole purpose is to gain leverage against the high-tech industry regarding the copyright issue and in favor of the entertainments industry. In other words, they we'll all be sufficiently scared that we'll finally give up some ground in the copyright issue. What ground is left to give up? They've already lengthened the terms of protection when they should have been shortening them. To my way of thinking, that constitutes abuse of process, and makes Fritz Hollings and Adam Schiff not merely traitors, but persona non grata. -dq -Douglas Hurst Quebbeman (DougQ at ixsnayamspayIgLou.com) [Call me "Doug"] Surgically excise the pig-latin from my e-mail address in order to reply "The large print giveth, and the small print taketh away." -Tom Waits

24 years, 2 months

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Soldering and other skills (was Re: QL-Quality (Was: ZX-81 Question))

by acme_ent＠bellsouth.net

> From: Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> > Odd... This really is a strange concept for me. My first computer > (coincidentally a Sinclair) came as a kit and I had to take a soldering > iron to it before I could use it... And no I couldn't have afforded to > replace it if I'd made a mess... > Since then I think I've taken a soldering iron to just about every > computer I've owned. Including machines that I couldn't replace even if I > did have the money. And I've never made matters worse. > Where does this idea come from that a soldering iron will damage a > computer. Round here it's generally used to improve the performance of a > machine... Tony, not everyone has the same skills you do, and that's a good thing. For some of us a soldering iron is an instrument we use to build or repair circuitry. For others, it's an implement of destruction. I'll wager there are plenty of people on this list who have skills you don't possess. That doesn't make them better than you, just different. The one thing we all have in common on this list is the desire to preserve and use old computers, and we all try to use our skills to do what we can to achieve that goal. Do you really thinks it's unreasonable for someone to say "I'm not confident of my soldering skills so I don't want to risk this computer's health by soldering it?" To me, this is a very rational attitude. It sure would be boring if we were all the same . . . ;>) Does any of this make sense to you? Glen 0/0

24 years, 2 months

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FWD: RSTS/E Manuals

by bob＠jftr.com

OK .. very old thread.. I know of the galaxy/5. Did a lot of programming on the beast, including creating a system call MTS -- Multi-Tasking System that let you run multiple programs per monitor. It was a lot of fun to program. Only about 30 of the things made. -- Bob Flanders

24 years, 2 months

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S-100 Computers in New York, NeXT printers in California

by vcf＠siconic.com

Hi. I called the guy in New York who is giving away all those Cromemco S-100 systems. He said someone was coming to pick everything up. I didn't want to be rude and ask who. I was interested in a couple pieces. Would the person who is picking those up please contact me? I'm hoping we can work out a deal. On another note, I accidentally deleted the Usenet message from the guy in the Bay Area (in California) who is selling a bunch of NeXT laser printers for $15. Does someone still have his contact info? Thanks! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *

24 years, 2 months

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It saddens me to do this....

by DAW＠yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu

I'm not sure if it was mentioned, but the @Home service went bankrupt right about that time. I remember hearing about a lot of Comcast cable internet customers having a bitch of a time getting their e-mail switched around correctly after that... --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 Mac OS X 10.1.2 - Darwin Kernel Version 5.2: Fri Dec 7 21:39:35 PST 2001 Running since 01/22/2002 without a crash > ---------- > From: Glen Goodwin > > > From: Curt Vendel <curt(a)atarimuseum.com> > > > Back before Christmas I worked out a deal with Jeff Worley: > > > > Jeffrey S. Worley > > Asheville, NC USA > > 828-6984887 > > UberTechnoid(a)Home.com > > I'm sorry to learn you were ripped off. Thanks for the heads-up. > > Glen > 0/0 > > > >

24 years, 2 months

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Dell monitor transistor

by SALTOVDP＠aol.com

Hi i have a line o/p transistor, s/c base/emitter 2SC5386 .Have you any info on its rating or equivelent kind regards robbie saltovdp(a)aol.com

24 years, 2 months

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Soldering and other skills (was Re: QL-Quality (Was: ZX-81 Question))

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On April 1, Sridhar the POWERful wrote: > > Yes, I think your right. Still, I didn't realize that it contained such > > a high percentage of lead. Me thinks, I'll be more carefull while > > handleing it in the future. Lead is absorbed through the skin if I'm > > not mistaken. > > Even handling cool boards, pricking yourself with solder points, can be > dangerous, if you do it enough. Ahh, so handling Cray, Sun, or VAX boards can be dangerous, but those not-so-cool boards...say, ISA or PeeCee motherboards...are safe? ;) -Dave -- Dave McGuire "...it's leaving me this unpleasant, St. Petersburg, FL damp feeling on my shorts..." -Sridhar

24 years, 2 months

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Soldering and other skills (was Re: QL-Quality (Was: ZX-81 Question))

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

From: Chad Fernandez <fernande(a)internet1.net> >How much lead does solder dor electronics contain? I thought only >solder for pipes contained lead? The best alloy is 63/37 63%lead 37% tin. Common variety is 60/40. The lead is not a hazard by inhalation though some of the fluxes can be. It is a contact hazard over time as it can be transfered from the skin to lips and injested. Solution, wash hands after using. Solder for pipes, by mandate has been below 5% lead for years, it used to be mostly lead {90/10}. >>>It's true. The mercury was used to stiffen the brims. Chronic hat wearers >>>also had problems. Lead is bad as it's water soluable if the PH is right. Mercury is nastier as it has a low boiling temperature and combines with Oxygen readily. Allison

24 years, 2 months

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Soldering and other skills (was Re: QL-Quality (Was: ZX-81 Question))

by carlos_murillo＠epm.net.co

At 02:20 AM 4/1/02 -0500, you wrote: >On Mon, 1 Apr 2002, Chad Fernandez wrote: >> Yes, I think your right. Still, I didn't realize that it contained such >> a high percentage of lead. Me thinks, I'll be more carefull while >> handleing it in the future. Lead is absorbed through the skin if I'm >> not mistaken. > >Even handling cool boards, pricking yourself with solder points, can be >dangerous, if you do it enough. >Peace... Sridhar I've been soldering 25+ years. In my early teens, unaware of the poisoning risk, I used my patented 3-hand technique, which involved holding the work piece in my left hand, the soldering iron in my right hand, and the solder bobbin in my mouth... I did not actually put the solder in my mouth, but rather, I bit the edge of the plastic holder. Still, that was a very bad idea. I should probably be screened for lead... carlos. -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo(a)nospammers.ieee.org

24 years, 2 months

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Apple //gs in Long Island, New York

by vcf＠siconic.com

Hank has an Apple //gs to give away. Contact him, not me. Reply-to: emann(a)suffolk.lib.ny.us >On Sun, 24 Mar 2002, Hank Mann wrote: > >> I have an Apple 2 gs I would like to donate. Has cpu, monitor, two 3.5" >> drives, one 5.25" drive keyboard, Imagewriter2 printer, mouse(new), >> mouse(original-bad switch), manuals, 20+ software titles inc. >> AppleWorksGS 1.1. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *

24 years, 2 months

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C128, Tandy 1000 to good home

by vcf＠siconic.com

Please reply directly to Jerry. He's located in East Alton, Illinois, about 20 miles North of St. Louis. Reply-to: bargeboy(a)charter.net ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 11:19:45 -0600 From: bargeboy(a)charter.net Subject: old computers Hi there, I have and old commodore 128, disk drive, z80 programming software, assorted software, printers and such. I also have a Tandy 1000 hx computer and disk drive. As of my last using they all worked and I need to get rid of them but I would like them to go to a good home. I'm wondering if you might like them? Thanks - Jerry L. Mullins -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *

24 years, 2 months

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Soldering and other skills (was Re: QL-Quality (Was: ZX-81 Question))

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On March 31, Doc wrote: > Umm, Have you looked at your .sig lately? > > > -- > > Dave McGuire "...it's leaving me this unpleasant, > > St. Petersburg, FL damp feeling on my shorts..." -Sridhar Yup...I know it's getting stale. I'll provoke Sridhar again soon; I'm sure he'll come up with another good quote. :) -Dave -- Dave McGuire "...it's leaving me this unpleasant, St. Petersburg, FL damp feeling on my shorts..." -Sridhar

24 years, 2 months

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Soldering and other skills (was Re: QL-Quality (Was: ZX-81 Question))

by acme_ent＠bellsouth.net

> From: R. D. Davis <rdd(a)rddavis.org> > All that person needs to do is get a soldering iron, solder, some bits > of wire, a scrap circuit board, something to tin the iron with [snip] Sure, and all a person needs to do to become a violinist is to buy a violin . . . > and start practicing. Practice doesn't always make perfect. Some people can't learn how to play. > Learning to solder properly is not difficult. I was given a soldering > iron and Radio Shack P-Box kits to build as a young child, when I was > in elementary school. Hence, soldering is the sort of thing that even > a young child can learn to do Sure it is. I learned as a child, from my mother. > so there's no excuse for any > computer-collecting adult to not know how to do it. Knowing how to do something and being able to do that thing are entirely different. If my eyesight is gone and/or my eye-hand coordination is gone and/or I have tremors, all the knowledge in the world won't get the job done. Glen 0/0

24 years, 2 months

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Apple CHRP prototype machine...

by jon＠slurpee.org

I have one of these: http://www.applefritter.com/macosppc/starmax/ if you're on the newsgroup and interested, make me an offer (trades may be acceptable also) I figure if I keep it its just going to gather dust because I dont have time to play :) Thanks, jon

24 years, 2 months

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IBM PS/2 Part wanted for 9577

by fernande＠internet1.net

If I recall correctly, IBM had a special stand for the PS/2 Model 77 so that it would sit on it's side. Does anybody have one they want to get rid of? I have one for a generic PC but it doesn't quite fit the PS/2 correctly. I've almost got my new 9577 reassembled...... been cleaning it :-) Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA

24 years, 2 months

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