>The reason why something is developed is really not that relevant to how
>it may ultimately be used
So, according to you... if someone can find an illegal use for an
otherwise legal item, that item should no longer be available to ANYONE,
regardless of if it has legitimate legal uses?
That being the case... please IMMEDIATELY surrender ALL your computers to
me, since they are potentially capable of pirating software, which
according to your logic, means you can not legally have said computers.
I will make sure they are properly disposed of for you.
While you are at it, I need a new car, so give me yours as well... after
all, cars are used every day as transport mechanisms for illegal
activity. I'll make sure it too is "disposed" of in a proper and fitting
manner.
-chris
<http://www.mythtech.net>
> >The reason why something is developed is really not that relevant to how
> >it may ultimately be used
>
> So, according to you... if someone can find an illegal use for an
> otherwise legal item, that item should no longer be available to ANYONE,
> regardless of if it has legitimate legal uses?
>
> That being the case... please IMMEDIATELY surrender ALL your computers to
> me, since they are potentially capable of pirating software, which
> according to your logic, means you can not legally have said computers.
FYI...
John Draper was arrested and convicted in Pennsylvania in '77 or '78
for "possession of a device capable of defrauding the telephone company
of its rightful tarrifs". I met him on his journey back to the left coast after
he got out.
The device in question? The Apple (autodialing) Modem, which he was
developing for Woz.
Why? Well, Woz doesn't like to do too much in hardware; he always
like to minimize the logic design and use software to do the job
(a great philosphy for controllers, a louosy one for general purpose
computers). So rather than design the hardware to have fixed-frequency
tones, the software could determine the tones to be used. Of course,
that meant you could select the ESS interswitch "MF" tones instead of
DTMF.
Today, virtually every modem with a Rockwell chipset has this feature.
Has Rockwell been locked up? Unlikely...
-dq
-Douglas Hurst Quebbeman (DougQ at ixsnayamspayIgLou.com) [Call me "Doug"]
Surgically excise the pig-latin from my e-mail address in order to reply
"The large print giveth, and the small print taketh away." -Tom Waits
On March 31, John Chris Wren wrote:
> It's true. The mercury was used to stiffen the brims. Chronic hat wearers
> also had problems.
So does anyone have any idea how much lead is present in the vapors
produced by soldering? I know (for our kind of stuff, anyway) the
smoke is mostly flux and crap, but is there much lead in there?
I solder a *lot*, especially lately...I'm wondering if I should be
concerned.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire "...it's leaving me this unpleasant,
St. Petersburg, FL damp feeling on my shorts..." -Sridhar
> Sridhar the POWERful wrote:
>
>Ok. I wonder what would happen if I stuck a DWBUA in the BI cage
of my
>VAX 7000-650, and added a UNIBUS cabinet, then I were to take a
Qniverter
>and add a Qbus framebuffer?
I imagine you'd be carted off to the funny farm :-)
I assume you were not serious but just in case ...
Your path to the Qbus widgets would be:
LSB->XMI->BI->UNIBUS->QBUS
which I suspect is a tad tortuous even for
the normally well designed DEC stuff.
Bus adapters generally only work well
one bus down. Beyond that you start
to hit timing issues and other such trivia
such as locking.
As an aside, surely with a little bit of
thought you could get TURBOchannel
and PCI involved in there? How hard
can it be?
Antonio
I'm new to this news group and the S-100 world so my appologies
in advance for what may be stupid or common knowledge questions.
I purchased an Imsai 8080 and would like to run some version of CP/M.
Should I stick with Imsai's IMDOS, which we know works? If CP/M is doable
What version would be the best choice?
Does CP/M need some sort of BIOS like the PC? If so where do I get the BIOS
source in order to burn an EPROM?
Any help, pointers, URL's, etc wouldbe greatly appreciated.
Thanks.
----- Original Message -----
From: Christopher Smith <csmith(a)amdocs.com>
Date: Wednesday, April 3, 2002 8:59 am
Subject: RE: Computers Manufactured in 1986
> ... if you can find the expansions. :)
Fair bit of stuff still out (I have some strange ones in my own
connection - for eg. a Xetec controller with an extra 2 mb ram & a
weird hard disk connector that plugged into the A1000's expansion
(Zorro) port - same co. used to make Centronics i/faces for VIC's &
64/128's)
> As for a more common system (more common than the Intergraph, not the
> Amiga), a UnixPC with 1 meg of ram, and maybe 60MB of disk will give
> you access to a really decent subset of available Unix (and possibly
> MS-DOS) software. It will also have a decent development environment,
> given the installation of a dev kit.
THe A2000UX from Commodore was fairly respecatble (though somewhat
undersold), not sure what version of Unix it ran, have to dig up my old
dealer brochures.
>
> On the other hand, the Atari ST plays quite a few more games. :)
>
But the Miggy had more & in better quality :-) (And they're still being
written for too.....)
cheers,
Lance
----------------
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> But surely you have hardware shops that sell screws?
Yes, but they require cash or credit... promises don't fly.
> > in the U.S. Midwest for an office supply firm. The scene is
> > set in a "typical" office... some shirts are having a meeting,
> > when another shirt comes in and asks if "can we use the pen"?
> >
> > THE pen. The only pen in the office.
>
> Are you sure this is not some 3rd world country????
It often feels that way...
Many firms have company credit cards. I think we grossed
US$8M last year, and no such plastic exists in this firm,
The 25 Dells that were bought? We have one employee who
*loves* those points, rebates, and skymiles from large
purchases. Then, he submits them for reimbursment.
Yours Truly lives paycheck to paycheck and is running
a monthly $100 deficit, that only the end-of-year bonus
finally clears up. So, it's rare that I can purchase a
needed item. I'm supposed to requisition it. Anything
I buy that I don't get approved, I risk not being
reimbursed.
> > When I need a screw for a PC, I typically have to find a PC
> > from which to remove a screw. Everything ends up with half
> > the screws it was designed to use.
>
> Now many of my computers don't have any casing screws, but that's not
> because I needed them for something else. It's because I want to be able
> to work inside the machine.
Well, yes, I have lots of those... my EPROM burner is a
board in a 486 that lives sans-a-case...
-dq
>I guess I should have been a bit clearer. The DeCSS
>lawsuit was not about posting source code, but about
>posting a Windows executable version which was known
>as "DeCSS." As stated by 2600 Enterprises in its
>post-hearing brief: "Jon Johansen testified that . .
>. he wrote the program for Windows rather than for
>Linux in order to test it properly because Linux did
>not then support the UDF file system used on DVDs."
Um... can you explain then, if this is what the lawsuit was about, WHY it
was deemed illegal to post or link to, copies of the SOURCE CODE for the
DeCSS algorithm.
After all THAT is what 2600 was arguing. They didn't disagree that an
executable could be used to pirate a DVD. Nor did they flat out disagree
that distributing it might not be such a hot idea... what they were
fighting for, was the RIGHT to post and say anything you damn well please.
If you stop people from posting source code, even if that source code
when used serves no purpose other than to commit a crime... you are STILL
crushing free speech. There should be no law to stop it... much as their
should be no law stopping me from explaining in detail, if I so choose,
how to commit murder and get away with it. There is no practical
application for executing the knowledge of how to commit and get away
with murder, but that doesn't mean that one should be stopped from
sharing that knowledge.
The moment someone puts the knowledge into use for illegal purposes...
THAT is when the law should step up and prosecute someone. But since
there are already laws in place that appear to cover the actual illegal
activities... then things like the DMCA should just be repealed... they
are redundant in places of stopping actual crime, and they cause things
that should not be crimes, to now be listed as such.
What amazes me is... it has been deemed in a court of law, that it is
free speech and ok to publish detailed instructions on how to build an
atomic bomb. But it is illegal to post instructions on how to play a DVD
that I bought, on a computer that I bought, using an OS that I bought.
You can't go around assuming that everyone, when given the chance, will
be a criminal. Gee... NJ did that, and now they are 160 million in debt
with their EZ-Pass system... why? Because they figured that they would be
able to pay for the system from tickets issued to toll jumpers... but
funny thing is, they have now found out the hard way, that 99% of the
population of NJ is honest... and now the state is stuck with the bill to
pay.
-chris
<http://www.mythtech.net>
Today was busy at doing a auction most of the morning and stopping at
several thrift stores all afternoon. Below are some of my finds and a
strange card.
1. Mac Performa 630CD (was $5.99)
2. Mac Performa 6110CD (was $7)
3. View-Master InteractiveVision console in the box it was used unit
missing the VHS tape that comes with it. (was $18)
4. Laser 50 personal computer (was $2.92)
5. AT&T Globulyst 378TPC tower model 3348-4372 (was $8)
6. Two hp front cartridges (22706C and 22706M). (was 80 cent)
7. Where in Time is Carmen San Diego cartridge by Konami for the
Nintendo NES in a box with a desk encyclopedia. (was 79 cent)
8. Six different CD's for the Panasonic 3 DO system. Looked all over
store and asked the clerks if they had the game console. No Luck finding
it there. (these were .99 to $1.99 each)
9. Several old monitors for $1 each.
10. Now this the card: It says in caps MOTOROLA M68HC05PGMR. One of the
chips has a homemade label on it that says METER.MIK CKSUM BF73.
There are 2 switches on one is a ON/OFF and the other looks like a reset
switch. There is a number in bold white of 3189.Three wires are coming
>from one side and they are purple, blue, and black in color. It looks
like some kind of EPROM burner to me? Anyone have info on this card?
(was $1.99)
> > Anyone notice how commodity PCs have screws that have clearly
> > been *cast* onstead of *turned/Machined*? Everytime you thread
> > one into a hole, you generate a nice supply of metal shavings.
> >
> > Not good.
>
> Just bad bag of that screws. Toss it and buy bag of decent screws.
I should have been more specific... the screws to which I am
referring are those commonly provided for securing the cards
in their slots. And they shed metal not only from the screw
but from the rear of the chassis they thread into.
In fact, everytime you insert one of these, it has a 50%
chance of rethreading the hole.
Look at them carefully... they have a noticable taper.
That's *one* way to encourage them to stay put.
-dq
Spotted on another list. Reply to Mabry directly.
ok
r.
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 16:10:51 -0800
From: Mabry Tyson <tyson(a)AI.SRI.COM>
Reply-To: slug(a)AI.SRI.COM
To: "slug(a)ai.sri.com" <slug(a)AI.SRI.COM>
Subject: [SLUG] 3600 & 3640 at SRI surplus auction through 4/5
I just wandered through SRI's surplus auction. They've got a 3600 (s/n
583) and 3645 there, each very full of cards. Honestly, I don't know
whether they work or not. These were machines that were government
owned machines that are being auctioned off. I didn't notice any
cables, monitors, keyboards, or mice with them.
The auction ends on the 5th. If you want to bid, let me know and I'll
give you further info, but I won't bid for you.
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary Hildebrand <ghldbrd(a)ccp.com>
Date: Wednesday, April 3, 2002 3:52 am
Subject: Re: Computers Manufactured in 1986
> You forgot the first Amiga (1000)! And the commodore 64, Plus 4, and
> commodore 16.
>
>
The C64 was released in 1982 (20 this year!, The Plus/4 & C16 were (I
think) 1984, so none of those qualify. The A1000 does though....
cheers,
Lance
----------------
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> "Douglas H. Quebbeman" wrote:
> > Now that my Prime 2455 is fully operational again,
> ...
> > Ok, go for broke, swap in the remaining CPU board set, replace
> > newly-provided CPU board interconnects (top hats) with my old
> > ones...
>
> Thank you! Thank you! You've solved a twenty-year-old puzzle
> for me and all the other Prime hackers at Westfield College.
> You see, one day we were bored enough to read the Prime 750's
> log book (must've been a day when the power failed or something)
> and the Prime engineer had written the inscrutable:
>
> Rotated top hats
>
> Now, we didn't know what these gadgets were, but rotating them
> seemed to be crucial to making our beloved Prime work, so we
> just accepted it. Every time an engineer called, we'd look at
> each other and say "He's here to rotate the top hats again".
>
> Now, at last, we know what they are! Any chance of a photo?
heh, believe it or not, there are two different, unreleated
things called "top hats" in some Primes... In my 2455, at
the top, underneath the removable top skin, is a small +/- 12VDC
power supply, called the "top hat PSU".
But the 750 wouldn't have had those... in the link below,
they are the three small rectangular vertically arranged;
my 2455's boards run vertical in the cage:
http://members.iglou.com/dougq/p2455/ICS&Cipher.html
OTOH, in the 750, the boards went in horizontally, so
you'd have seen the top hats left-to-right (at least
that's how they were in the P400 and the P650).
Glad I could help!
Regards,
-doug q
> >From: "Douglas H. Quebbeman" <dquebbeman(a)acm.org>
> >Reply-To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
> >To: "ClassicCmp List" <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
> >Subject: Pr1marily Contented (Longish)
> >Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 23:23:03 -0500
> >
> >Now that my Prime 2455 is fully operational again, I
> >want to thank everyone who offered advice here. After
> >giving up on repairing the power supply, I decided to
> >buy one.
>
> I assuming you don't need the one I have set aside?
Steve-
You're one of several listers with whom it appears I
have read-only contact with. My replies never seem to
get through.
If your PSU is a TLA10113-001, no, I don't need it;
OTOH, if it's a 7778, then I *might* be interested,
they are apparantly rather rare now. They put out
the +/- 16VDC used by the older memory cards. There
will come a day when someone will need one, and no
more will be found.
Can you at least check the numbers on it for me, so
I can make an intelligent decision? Ok, then at least
an *informed* decision...
;)
-dq
>
> What are some good old computers manufactured in 1986?
>
Well, my Prime 2455 is one example...
That *may* be the year John's Cyber 180/960 was built...
Any Apollo workstation made that year...
Oh! Oh! Didn't the Mac II premiere in '86? Or was it '87?
IBM RS/6000? Kaypro 2000?
-dq
In a message dated 4/2/02 5:05:52 PM Eastern Standard Time,
r_beaudry(a)hotmail.com writes:
<< A bit too new to be on topic, but... I was scrounging through some stuff
yesterday, and unearthed a set of original diskettes for an IBM PS/1.
>>
do you know what model PS/1?
old computers, old cars and sundry items
www.nothingtodo.org
> > > Loboyko Steve wrote:
> > > WW sockets are getting more expensive. I won't use
> > > anything but machine tooled pin sockets, which are
> > > even more expensive. Buf going nuts and wasting your
> > > precious free time over a flaky socket is really,
> > > really expensive.
> >
> > I, too, can recommend only going with machined-pin sockets; anything
less
> > isn't worth the hassle of trying to chase down phantom problems. This
> > goes for soldered designs as well as WW.
>
> I'll 'third' it...
>
> I will use nothing but turned-pin sockets (that's what they're called in
> the UK) now. I once spent most of a day tracking down a fault that was
> caused by a flaky contact on a folded-metal type of socket. Never again.
> I've got more enjoyable things to do...
Speaking of machined parts versus something else...
Anyone notice how commodity PCs have screws that have clearly
been *cast* onstead of *turned/Machined*? Everytime you thread
one into a hole, you generate a nice supply of metal shavings.
Not good.
To get back on topic, when did this trend start? The IBM PC,
PC/XT, and PC/AT used machined/turned fasteners. Lots of classic
non-consumer hardware used various "captive mechanisms" instead
of plain old screws and bolts.
And how about sharp edges inside a chassis? Older hardware tends
to have spent a little time in the hands of a whitesmith, who
added lots of finishing detail like smooth edges that don't cut.
-dq
> From: Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk>
> > The text refers to 2x2114 or a 4118 installed in the UK version and a
> > 2K option for export - possibly there are 2 versions of the board?
>
> OK, I've pulled my ZX81 apart. The PCB claims to be 'Issue 1'.
I have never seen any board marked "Issue 2." Did it exist?
> So, fit L2 if you install a 6116 (A10 on pin 19). Fit L1 if you install a
> 4118 (I am not sure what pin 19 is, I can't find a 4118 data sheet, but
> at least one schematic I have calls it 'E', presumably an active high
> enable signal). Fit either or no links if you install 2 * 2114s. Never
> fit both links, or you'll short A10 to the +5V rail.
Today I checked out about two dozen ZX81/TS1000s. They've been piling up
in a box and today I finally got to them. Here's what I found:
All of the 1K boards had two 2114s and no jumper installed.
All but one of the 2K boards had a single 2016 and L2 was installed.
One 2K board had a 6116 and L2 was installed. The board was operational
and appeared unmodified.
I replaced a socketed 2016 on a working board with the 6116 pulled from the
above-mentioned board,
and the board still worked.
So I think it's safe to say that L2 is required for a single-RAM-chip
board, and that a 6116 is a drop-in replacement for a 2016.
Never did see a 4118. Perhaps the use of it would change things,
jumper-wise.
Glen
0/0
>From: "Douglas H. Quebbeman" <dquebbeman(a)acm.org>
>Reply-To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
>To: "ClassicCmp List" <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
>Subject: Pr1marily Contented (Longish)
>Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 23:23:03 -0500
>
>Now that my Prime 2455 is fully operational again, I
>want to thank everyone who offered advice here. After
>giving up on repairing the power supply, I decided to
>buy one.
I assuming you don't need the one I have set aside?
SteveRob
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.
Ok. I wonder what would happen if I stuck a DWBUA in the BI cage of my
VAX 7000-650, and added a UNIBUS cabinet, then I were to take a Qniverter
and add a Qbus framebuffer?
Peace... Sridhar
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Douglas H. Quebbeman [mailto:dquebbeman@acm.org]
> Chris Smith and I were discussing repair techniques offline, and the
> above were amongst the discussed techniques.
> However, I prefer erecting totems next to the troublesome devices...
I still maintain the usefulness of runestones, incense, and rituals
involving chant and the drawing of "signs of power" around the device.
Chris
Christopher Smith, Perl Developer
Amdocs - Champaign, IL
/usr/bin/perl -e '
print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");
'
On April 2, Christopher Smith wrote:
> AT&T Unix PC. 512k to 4M of ram [usually 1M], 40 to 60M hard drive,
> all in one system with a monochrome green screen, removable keyboard,
> and 3 button mouse. It also had a 5.25" floppy. It ran Unix SystemV
> R 3.0 or 3.5, I vaguely remember a port of some other system to run
> on it. Check some of the web pages you can find. There was a built
> in graphical windowing system, dynamically loadable drivers, and if
> you could get the ethernet board, or extra serial ports, you could
> run multi-user configurations. It could read/write (through special
> bundled software) MS-DOS disks, and there was also a DOS board for it
> with an 8088 CPU or something like that, and some RAM to let it
> actually run DOS, and DOS apps.
What wonderful machines these are. The first ones, though, shipped
with 10MB drives, not 40MB, and it was SYSVR2, not 3.
I sold these machines at a computer store when I was in high school,
and later had one of my own as my first real UNIX machine. Stupidly I
sold it many years ago. Thanks to the assistance of a fellow lister
(hi Mark!) I finally have one now, which I will keep forever.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire "...it's leaving me this unpleasant,
St. Petersburg, FL damp feeling on my shorts..." -Sridhar
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blacklord [mailto:blacklord@telstra.com]
> And it's the best one (subjective) out of all the others so far
> mentioned. An A1000 can still happily run just about anything you can
> throw at it, plus it's emminently expandable.
... if you can find the expansions. :)
Personally I like the Intergraph on my list. Never seen one, but if
I had, I would own one by now.
As for a more common system (more common than the Intergraph, not the
Amiga), a UnixPC with 1 meg of ram, and maybe 60MB of disk will give
you access to a really decent subset of available Unix (and possibly
MS-DOS) software. It will also have a decent development environment,
given the installation of a dev kit.
On the other hand, the Atari ST plays quite a few more games. :)
Chris
Christopher Smith, Perl Developer
Amdocs - Champaign, IL
/usr/bin/perl -e '
print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");
'
On Mon, 1 Apr 2002 18:52:52 -0500 "Douglas H. Quebbeman"
<dquebbeman(a)acm.org> writes:
>> Anyone notice how commodity PCs have screws that have clearly
> been *cast* onstead of *turned/Machined*? Everytime you thread
> one into a hole, you generate a nice supply of metal shavings.
>
> Not good.
>
> To get back on topic, when did this trend start? The IBM PC,
> PC/XT, and PC/AT used machined/turned fasteners. Lots of classic
> non-consumer hardware used various "captive mechanisms" instead
> of plain old screws and bolts.
>
> And how about sharp edges inside a chassis? Older hardware tends
> to have spent a little time in the hands of a whitesmith, who
> added lots of finishing detail like smooth edges that don't cut.
I think this started when we (the U.S.A.) began importing
parts made in communist countries.
Jeff
________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.
>
> Amiga.
>
And it's the best one (subjective) out of all the others so far
mentioned. An A1000 can still happily run just about anything you can
throw at it, plus it's emminently expandable.
cheers,
Lance
----------------
Powered by telstra.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Roger Merchberger [mailto:zmerch@30below.com]
> (under OS-9) 512K Ram, hacked easily to 2M (recently hacked
> to *64Meg*!!)
Ok, when I get a CoCo 3, I want it to have 64M of RAM. How's
it done? :)
Chris
Christopher Smith, Perl Developer
Amdocs - Champaign, IL
/usr/bin/perl -e '
print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");
'
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dave McGuire [mailto:mcguire@neurotica.com]
> What wonderful machines these are. The first ones, though, shipped
> with 10MB drives, not 40MB, and it was SYSVR2, not 3.
I don't doubt the 10M disk, but I've never seen anything below 3.0 for it.
I have 3.5 on mine, with a 3.0 dev kit.
Chris
Christopher Smith, Perl Developer
Amdocs - Champaign, IL
/usr/bin/perl -e '
print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");
'
> Gunther Schadow wrote:
>
>do you know what the KA64A's self test #21 is? I have two of these
>boards that just won't come up, they both stop at
>
>#123456789 0123456789 01
After an extensive trawl of the manuals,
I think I've found something.
This is, as you have said, failing test 21.
This is Backup Tag Store Parity Error Test.
Not a happy CPU, I would guess.
I have no idea how repairable this is.
To verify (for sure) you should have
the yellow LED off (self-test failed)
and the red LEDs below that
reading OFF, ON, OFF, OFF, OFF, OFF, ON
(which is 21 in BCD - no, I don't know why!)
>system self test and get me to a console prompt, I get the error
>that these two boards didn't get to console mode. What could be
>wrong here?
They almost certainly need the tender
care of a soldering iron and a new chip
or two. I have no schematics for these
(I doubt that anyone other than the
DEC repair centres ever did have these).
Antonio
Hello all,
A bit too new to be on topic, but... I was scrounging through some stuff
yesterday, and unearthed a set of original diskettes for an IBM PS/1.
One of the disks is labelled "IBM PS/1 Recovery Diskette"
There are 13 more diskettes labelled "IBM Original PS/1 Software, Diskette X
of 13", where X of course goes from 1 to 13 :-)
They are also labelled "Version 2.2" and the latest copyright date is 1993.
If anyone wants these diskettes, first come, first served, no charge except
shipping...
I did test them by copying them onto my hard drive, so they are readable...
Rich B.
_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
Now that my Prime 2455 is fully operational again, I
want to thank everyone who offered advice here. After
giving up on repairing the power supply, I decided to
buy one.
Had I known they'd only cost $100, I'd have bought one
sooner. Well, that was my Christmas present to myself
for Christmas 2000. It arrives, I install it, press the
power button, and see a message from the VCP about it
beginning its self-test. Then it completes, and then I
get the date & time, and then...
Then I get the "ON" LED flashing defiantly at a 2 Hz rate.
Time passed, and I began to suspect that more than the PSU
had gotten toasted. I intended to start saving money to
shotgun the machine, board by board, until I had it running
again. More time passed and no savings took place.
Well, in steps a lister who I believe wishes to remain
anonymous. Said lister faciliated the acquisition of said
boards, NONE OF WHICH SOLVED THE PROBLEM! Not his fault,
of course... and there is more of this part of the story
I'll relate below, that should be of interest to all
ClassicCmp listers. But I should thank the lister again,
he knows who he is, and without his help, the Prime would
still be an emotional singularity...
Finally, again in desparation, I posted again to comp.sys.prime.
This time, an owner of the same model I have, replies. Over
the course of several dozen e-mails, we narrowed down the
problem.
As it turns out, the replacement PSU was either failing to
ground or was in fact asserting a line known as BBUREQ+, which
signals a battery backup problem to the virtual control panel.
Grounding that pin got the system past the point in the boot
where it would flash the LED. I suspect a forgotten FCO...
More problems... it says it thinks its a 2450 and it can see
it has 2455 parts, not right, won't boot. Swap VCP. Same.
Swap in my original VCP. Ok, now it's happyy... nope, now
the CPU won't verify. Swap in a second CPU board set. Nope.
Ok, go for broke, swap in the remaining CPU board set, replace
newly-provided CPU board interconnects (top hats) with my old
ones. Replace my VCP-to-CPU cable with 3rd party cable.
Now it's verifying the CPU ok, but can't autoboot from drive
unit 0. I freak thinking it's the controller. Better that
than the drive, tho... The bulkhead cable had gotten munged a
bit, so I began to suspect it, and mangle it further trying
to fix it. Still no good. Ok, stick a new connector on the
cable. Nope.
Remove and reseat the external cable to the duplex shoebox.
Nope. Try different SCSI unit addresses... hey, that worked...
But I can only see one drive. I mess around with various
adresses, suspecting a dropped bit in the bad cable. Still
can't get them both online.
I finally ended up swapping the two unit select switches,
or rather, the connectors, so that each drive was using the
other's selectors. Then set them for the appropriate values.
Bingo! Autoboot to unit 0 and unit 1 is also seen and mounted.
So, I'm able to boot it into:
Primos Rev. 23.4.Y2K.R1
Primos Rev. 20.0.8
Primos II Rev. 20
and these from either disk or tape.
Whew!
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Now, on to the part of the story that's widely applicable.
Don't underestimate the potential usefulness of a 3rd-party
service organization. The company in question services other
stuff that they actually make money from. But they make no
money from servicing Primes.
They have a policy about repairs, as since these days, it's
mostly remove & replace. Techs with experience are expensive
so customers tend to do their own work. But this firm charges
for a part IF and ONLY IF it effects a repair.
Now, that's probably standard. But when a part doesn't fix the
problem, this firm has no desire to incur the shipping costs
of returning the part to them, and they sure as hell can't get
the customer to pay for it if it doesn't contribute to the fix.
So the upshot of this is that I got to keep all the spares,
and the lister who facilitated this will be charged only for
the time spent talking to a technician (who found the thing
about the LED flash and what it meant *ABOUT 4 HOURS* after I
got the system semi-operational as described above).
>From the postings here, most of you would be a little better
equipped (not much just a little) to financially faciliate
a repair operation like this one became. But I suspect that
like me, a 3rd-party servce organzation would be about the
last thing you'd consider, as a hobbyist. You'd assume like
I did that it would cost a fortune. But the technician I
spoke to was also a preservationist (although now I forget
what he likes!).
So before you give up on that old iron and dump it, try
calling for service, and when you get the technician,
explain to *him* that you're non-commercial and can't
afford much. You may just land a bargain.
Regards,
-doug q
> On Mon, 1 Apr 2002, John Chris Wren wrote:
>
> > I do have one theory that applies to PCs and cars: If you fail to shed
> > blood and appease the gods, it will not work when you're done.
>
> Absolutely. Although Sridhar and I have discussed the possibility of
> offering up chicken blood instead....
Chris Smith and I were discussing repair techniques offline, and the
above were amongst the discussed techniques.
However, I prefer erecting totems next to the troublesome devices...
;)
-Douglas Hurst Quebbeman (DougQ at ixsnayamspayIgLou.com) [Call me "Doug"]
Surgically excise the pig-latin from my e-mail address in order to reply
"The large print giveth, and the small print taketh away." -Tom Waits
Does anybody want a 1976 brochure from vector? I'd prefer that it go to someone that will scan it and post it on the net. The brochure is six pages long and covers the well known S-100 vector boards, Slit-N-Wrap tools, ribbon cable making tools and other computer building goodies from 1976 and includes prices. there's also a price change sheet dated 1978. Picture at <http://home.cfl.rr.com/rigdon14/a6/vector.jpg>.
Joe
From: Ethan Dicks <erd_6502(a)yahoo.com>
>What else would be "useful" from a DECmate board? I agree about
Depends on if it's a DMII or DMIII. The dmII had less integration so the
6120,
eproms and likely a 6121 plus UARTs are available. The DMIII it will be
the
6120 and maybe a 6121 plus 2882 and the eproms, though I'm less sure as
it's been a long time since I've had to open one.
Allison
> What are some good old computers manufactured in 1986?
Well, since I don't think DEC was still making PDP-10's at that point, that
means you're limited to various PDP-11's, VAXen, and the Macintosh.
Zane
> The M$ foot gets another dose of lead
Ummm, Doc, I think you fell for an April Fools prank.
If you view, say, http://www.wehavethewayout.com/xxx
you get a standard IIS 404 page, and the HTTP
response header say "Server: Microsoft-IIS/5.0"
I think Microsoft learned its lesion when
it took, what, a couple of years to migrate
Hotmail off of Unix onto NT/2000?
Or did I fall for the prank by responding? :/
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
_| _| _| Brian Knittel / Quarterbyte Systems, Inc.
_| _| _| Tel: 1-510-559-7930 Fax: 1-510-525-6889
_| _| _| Email: brian(a)quarterbyte.com
_| _| _| http://www.quarterbyte.com
From: Don Caprio <caprio(a)dcms.com>
>I purchased an Imsai 8080 and would like to run some version of CP/M.
>Should I stick with Imsai's IMDOS, which we know works? If CP/M is doable
>What version would be the best choice?
Cpm is doable on ANY 8080/8085/z80/z180/z280 machine with the
minimum of:
20k of ram {16k for V1.4}
Console IO device {serial, parallel or video}
Some form of block addressable mass storage device
{disk, tape or rom/ramdisk}
Nice to have:
Boot prom/eprom (doesnt have to be big)
Second port for printer
hard disk
>Does CP/M need some sort of BIOS like the PC? If so where do I get the BIOS
>source in order to burn an EPROM?
CP/M does (invented) the idea of a bios but.... it is not resident firmware
as in PCs. It's loaded at boot time from mass storage. A BIOS for the DISK
CONTROLLER and CONSOLE IO may or may not exist depending on YOUR
specific configuration. S100 system could vary a lot and were not anything
close to plug and play. However, you could write your own bios and there
are plenty of examples out there as well as the docs needed.
Allison
> -----Original Message-----
> From: r. 'bear' stricklin [mailto:red@bears.org]
> Surely not quite that large, though I guess he might have a
> small desk. (;
Judging from the size of the Onyx's, I got the impression that
the machine was about twice that size, but admittedly, I haven't
seen many good photos of them.
Chris
Christopher Smith, Perl Developer
Amdocs - Champaign, IL
/usr/bin/perl -e '
print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");
'
> From: "Allison" <ajp166(a)bellatlantic.net>
> To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
> Subject: Re: Soldering and other skills (was Re: QL-Quality (Was: ZX-81 Question))
> Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 08:40:54 -0500
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
> From: Chad Fernandez <fernande(a)internet1.net>
> >How much lead does solder dor electronics contain? I thought only
> >solder for pipes contained lead?
>
> The best alloy is 63/37 63%lead 37% tin. Common variety is 60/40.
>
> The lead is not a hazard by inhalation though some of the fluxes can be.
> It is a contact hazard over time as it can be transfered from the skin
> to lips and injested. Solution, wash hands after using.
>
> Solder for pipes, by mandate has been below 5% lead for years, it
> used to be mostly lead {90/10}.
But the replacement for lead in plumber's solder is cadmium. And cadmium
is a pretty hazardous material itself.
carl
--
carl lowenstein marine physical lab u.c. san diego
clowenstein(a)ucsd.edu
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Torquil MacCorkle III [mailto:torquil@rockbridge.net]
> Which SGI would actually have an R2000?
Um, none of them. IIRC, R3000 was the first chip that SGI
used from MIPS. There are other systems that use them, including
some (I have some r2ks, I think) made by MIPS, themselves.
An SGI from that period is something like the IRIS 2000, or
possibly by then IRIS 3000, which was very large and based
around a motorola 68k chip of some sort.
Great machines, but they don't fit your relatively low power
requirement, and they're as large as your desk easily. :)
Chris
Christopher Smith, Perl Developer
Amdocs - Champaign, IL
/usr/bin/perl -e '
print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");
'
Rumor has it that Christopher Smith may have mentioned these words:
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Roger Merchberger [mailto:zmerch@30below.com]
>
>> (under OS-9) 512K Ram, hacked easily to 2M (recently hacked
>> to *64Meg*!!)
>
>Ok, when I get a CoCo 3, I want it to have 64M of RAM. How's
>it done? :)
http://home.wwdb.org/irgroup/nocan3b.html
He's got it to 8Meg here, and said that 16Meg should be no problem... I
could have sworn (albeit not with my life) that he had a proto running
64Meg, just to see if it could be done, but with a very quick perusal I
couldn't find reference to it again... but I did find reference to
RAMZilla, which didn't have a direct link, so I think that was associated
with it somehow.
Drat... but admittedly, *filling* 64Meg on a CoCo would be a chore in
itself, unless you wanted one _big honkin'_ ramdrive.
He's also got a wire-wrapped CoCo listed elsewhere on the page...
Gotta get back to work,
Roger "Merch" Merchberger
--
Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers
Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig.
If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead
disarmament should *not* be your first career choice.
>In the Betamax case, the US Supreme court said that if there is ANY
>legitimate use of a device, then it is legal, even if most uses are
>illegal.
And that's the way it SHOULD be.
Prosecute the people for doing something illegal, NOT for owning or using
a device that COULD be used for illegal purposes regardless of what they
were using it for.
-chris
<http://www.mythtech.net>
And I just tested it... the website seems to be down. (Yes, I did try in
both Nutscrape & Interment Exploder)...
Hasty switchover, mayhaps?
Roger "Merch" Merchberger
--
Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers
Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig.
If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead
disarmament should *not* be your first career choice.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Don Caprio [mailto:caprio@dcms.com]
> I purchased an Imsai 8080 and would like to run some version of CP/M.
> Should I stick with Imsai's IMDOS, which we know works? If
> CP/M is doable
> What version would be the best choice?
Don't know. Sorry.
> Does CP/M need some sort of BIOS like the PC? If so where do
> I get the BIOS
> source in order to burn an EPROM?
This one I can answer. Yes, it does. -- and -- EPROM? Who needs
an EPROM? (CP/M BIOS is stored on the floppy and loaded into RAM,
generally.)
Chris
Christopher Smith, Perl Developer
Amdocs - Champaign, IL
/usr/bin/perl -e '
print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");
'
> Doug, Anybody,
>
> Isn't 86 the year the Mac Plus came out? The original was 84, I know.
> There was a model ot two inbetween the original and the Plus, but I'm
> unsure the exact timing.
>
> If a Plus is the 86 computer, I do have an extra with addtional goodies.
> It does have a slight screen fussiness in one corner of the display,
> However.
Yup, 86 is right for the Plus.
And for Ethernet, you can get a box that hangs off the SCSI port
and provides the Ethernet ability.... The device in question seems
to have been made by one firm and rebadged and sold by others...
Seems like "Nova" is part of the name of the one I've got. Mine has
10-Base-2 (coax) and AUI ports, so it'd need a transceiver to do
10-Base T, I suppose....
-dq
-Douglas Hurst Quebbeman (DougQ at ixsnayamspayIgLou.com) [Call me "Doug"]
Surgically excise the pig-latin from my e-mail address in order to reply
"The large print giveth, and the small print taketh away." -Tom Waits
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ben Franchuk [mailto:bfranchuk@jetnet.ab.ca]
> Now do you one with or with out TUBES?
> Looking a list here http://members.iinet.net.au/~dgreen/timeline.html
> 1956 was a great year for TUBE computers.
> 1960 was a great year Transistor computers. ( Hmm I could get
> a PDP-1 )
I suppose to commemorate my birth, I'll need to get an S-100 box
of some sort, or possibly:
A "DECStation"
A PDP-11/60
A VAX-11/780 (...but what would I run on it? It would have to be
RSTS/E, since VMS 1.0 hadn't been released, probably.)
Chris
Christopher Smith, Perl Developer
Amdocs - Champaign, IL
/usr/bin/perl -e '
print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");
'
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ron Hudson [mailto:rhudson@cnonline.net]
> Anybody got a spare ENIAC ?
Not me...
> Perhaps an abacus?
Have one, also a small slide-rule but I'm kind of attached to them.
Chris
Christopher Smith, Perl Developer
Amdocs - Champaign, IL
/usr/bin/perl -e '
print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");
'
I don't think the following post ever made it to the list, during
the time my office's domain cesed to exist for a short time...
> A friend was claiming that with the UCSD P-System, one could "compile once"
> and then "run anywhere" (where "anywhere" means different kinds of
> computers running the P-System, not different instances of
> the same computer).
>
> Was this true?
I've never seen it contradicted. [...until I saw some replies here...]
> Did users commonly compile on system A and then take the P-Code to
> system B and run it successfully?
It wasn't likely common. [..aforementioned media problems interfered?..]
> I'd have thought that media incompatibility would have tended to
> limit this capability.
Serial ports and modems would more or less get around this problem.
[..but it would appear that serial ports baffle quite a few many people..]
> Was any commerical P-System software sold that was a single binary,
> but the vendor expected the user to be able to install/run it on
> any brand/model of P-System? (Or, did vendors have to produce a version
> for every platform?)
The Smalltalk-80 System also used an interpreter, called the bytecode
interpreter, and it was in fact common to take an application compiled
on, say, a Xerox Dorado and run it on a Xerox Magnolia, or even a
Tektronix box. I've seen references recently to an Alto version of
Smalltalk-80 2.2, so the apps crafted at XSIS (Xerox Special Information
Systems) like The Analyst(tm), might have been worked out on Altos
then run at the The Company on Magnolias.
-dq
I know of at least 1 person who has a copy of The Analyst, which I almost
bought in 1987 (I was just going to buy ASP, the Analyst Spreadsheet)...
wish we could get him onboard in the preservationist movement
-Douglas Hurst Quebbeman (DougQ at ixsnayamspayIgLou.com) [Call me "Doug"]
Surgically excise the pig-latin from my e-mail address in order to reply
"The large print giveth, and the small print taketh away." -Tom Waits