- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by fernande＠internet1.net

-Solid State Fisher Model 440-T receiver, not working correctly, but probably fixable, has all parts, not in the best of shape, but could be made functional. -DEC M7639 -DEC M7622-BT 8 megs, not 16 -DEC M7621-AP Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA

24 years, 1 month

1
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Unix versions

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

From: Bill Pechter <pechter(a)pechter.dyndns.org> >As far as I know that's as far as it got inside DEC as well. >I once wondered where was the base DOS/Batch box left inside DEC >to build the XXDP stuff and DECX/11... I figure they just hacked it on >a DEC10 or RSTS/E box... maybe later on a VAX under PDP11 emulators. Used to be in building 21 fieldservice diagnostic engineering. I always wondered what the internal structure of it was. Allison

24 years, 1 month

7
7
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Questions about a donation

by vcf＠siconic.com

Anyone want an IBM PC? Reply-to: joan-keith(a)attbi.com ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 12:57:08 -0400 From: Joan Keith <joan-keith(a)attbi.com> Subject: Questions about a donation Hi, I have one of the earliest IBM PCs. I don't know if this is something you would be interested or not. As I recall, it was upgraded from 64k of memory to 192 and it has a single-sided 5 1/4 disk drive. It is in my mother's attic in Baltimore. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *

24 years, 1 month

6
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scans of M8164 (MK11) engineering drawings

by uban＠ubanproductions.com

I have an MK11 printset, but it has an M8159 schematic which has been superceeded by the M8164 board (which I have). I don't have a schematic for the M8164 board, which I presume is different than the M8159. So, I am looking for scans of the M8164 board schematics... Also, if someone has schematics for the M8728-AC/AF board that would be nice to have as well. --tnx --tom

24 years, 1 month

1
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Sun help needed... [was: RE: open "dumpster" event in New Hav en, CT]

by DAW＠yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu

"Zane H. Healy" wrote: > > > > > try to describe the scsi bus and termination. > > > > do a probe-scsi and a probe-scsi-all... > > > > > > > > let me know what that does. > > > > I'm pretty sure that there is a Sun screwup in the Ultra1 boot ROM such > > that "probe-scsi" doesn't work right when "auto-boot" is enabled. > > > > auto-boot?=false > > After turning off auto-boot you need to type 'reset' and hit return, this is > true on both Ultra 1's and 2's. If the auto-boot is already off, you still > need to do a 'reset' before doing teh probe-scsi/probe-scsi-all. > > Zane Well the RRD42, external CD worked. And I found out exactly why no CD drive worked internally... the plastic ribbon cable was tearing away! Oh well. Guess it's time to stick my CD-ROM in a SCSI case... -- --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 Mac OS X 10.1.2 - Darwin Kernel Ver. 5.2: Fri Dec 7 21:39:35 PST 2001 Running since 01/22/2002 without a crash

24 years, 1 month

1
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Period pricing references (was Re: Micro$oft Biz'droid Lusers)

by fmc＠reanimators.org

"Erik S. Klein" <eklein(a)impac.com> wrote: > My first IBM PC (December 1981) cost nearly $2,800 for a 64K machine, 1 SSDD > floppy (120K with DOS 1.0) and a color card with an RF Modulator. Back in the early-to-mid 1990s some friends of mine and I were comparing microcomputers we had over a roughly 15-year time span. Our conclusion was that from 1976 'til then, it cost about US$3000 to buy "the computer system you wanted", meaning what your computer system eventually grew into. That usually included some sort of peripherals, often bought after the initial purchase, and we were looking at an IMSAI 8080, a couple TRS-80s (Model Is), an Apple ][+, an IBM PC/XT, an Amiga 1000, and I'm not sure what else. I think at the time I was thinking my 486/33 desktop PC was below the curve (at about $2000), but I bought it from someone who was closing his computer store so got a pretty good deal. (BTW, I think it's on-topic now, it's still in use as a dial-on-demand NAT router, and it's been on 24x7 most of the last 10 years. Yes, you can blame me for last year's power woes in California.) I'm not sure where things are today but I think prices have come down. My last couple systems bought new for a purpose are notebook PCs, and of course there's a premium associated with that. I'm thinking they are something like $2500 and $2000, and the latter is an iBook that hasn't cost me that much yet but probably will by the time I'm done with it (I want to get it some more RAM, an Airport card, maybe a USB stiffy drive). -Frank McConnell

24 years, 1 month

2
1
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Recycling donated PCs

by bpope＠wordstock.com

Check out this place in Oakland, CA: http://www.linuxjournal.com//article.php?sid=6021 They are taking donated PCs, installs Linux on them a provides them to schools, scientists, governments, non-profits, the underprivileged and the handicapped. They also are creating cluster farms which are being used in *very* cool ways! Cheers, Bryan

24 years, 1 month

3
2
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DECStation Ultrix

by meltie＠myrealbox.com

Whilst i'm in a "fixing problems with my classiccmps" mood, does anyone have a copy of the Decstation Ultrix Installation CD at home that they could make an ISO file of for me, so I can resurrect my DS3100? Thanks Alex -- My computer's heavier than yours.

24 years, 1 month

1
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Toshiba T3100/20

by Alexanderfam＠aol.com

Hi, I have a secondhand T3100/20 and on the left hand side, the side where the hard drive is, next to the A,B,PRT switch there is a small DIN socket. Does anyone know what this does? If it's the internal modem, how do I communicate with it please? Many thanks, Lawrence

24 years, 1 month

3
2
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R.I.P. for D.I.Y.

by uban＠ubanproductions.com

>What I do for BGA protos is this: > >1. Solder the BGA(s) first! >This is for a couple of reasons, its easier to inspect the soldering, and if >you mess up the BGA soldering you can start with a fresh board and not have to >remove the BGA part. (Though I have removed and resoldered BGAs with pretty >good luck) > >2. Build a "frame" around the BGA by soldering pieces of scrap circuit board >material on all 4 sides of the BGA, leaving a little (5 mill) clearance on >each side. I do this with pieces of paper as a shim that I later remove. This >is the most critical part, the BGA part must be located in the right position >on the PC by the frame. The 5 mill clearanec on the side is so the BGA can >"float and settle" when the balls melt -surface tension will bring it into >perfect alignment with the PCB pads. I do the frame alignment by setting the >BGA on edge (vertical) against each of my frame pieces and checking the >ball/PCB pad alignment. So do you lay out the PCB with areas on the four sides to which you can solder your "frame"? >3. Put _A LOT_ of rosin core flux on the PC BGA pads. You dont need any solder >with the common solder ball type BGAs they have plenty in the balls. > >4. Heat from behind with a heat gun. I use a standard $59 Granger heat gun. >This requires some pratice to avoid overheating the board. You can pratice by >soldering small SMT parts to scrap or used PCBs. Moving the heat gun around in >a small circular pattern will help avoid PCB damage. When the Rosin flux >really begins to smoke, the temperature is just about right. You can see when >the BGA solder balls melt, because the BGA chip will sink about 1/2 mm. When >you see it sink, Your done! When you say "behind", I assume you mean the underside of the PCB, not the top of the BGA? Does the board want to be laying flat so that gravity helps or does the solder surface tension take care of it? I assume that you don't press the BGA part down? I've heard that moisture from humidity can cause problems, sometimes refered to as the "popcorn effect". What can you tell us about this? I've heard it has to do with component storage... >5. Checking: When the PCB is cool you need to remove the flux and inspect the >soldering. If the BGA is soldered properly the solder balls will have a >squashed appearance on all 4 sides of the BGA and you should be able see >through all the interball rows in both directions by along the underside of >the BGA. If the balls are not melted enough, you can re-apply flux and re-heat >The worst thing that can happen is that your frame is mis-aligned so far that >the balls ended up stikinf to 2 pads and have have merged underneath the BGA. >In that case you need to remove the BGA and try again (with a new part) > > >I have not been 100% successful but am close to 85% good solders first time... Thanks for the advice. It doesn't sound too bad... --tom

24 years, 2 months

7
7
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CP/M-86

by pat＠purdueriots.com

I've been playing around with cp/m-86, and was wondering if anyone knew if a multiuser (like MP/M) version was available somewhere? My next step is to try making it work under Dosemu on Linux if I cant... -- Pat

24 years, 2 months

2
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Sun help needed... [was: RE: open "dumpster" event in New Hav en, CT]

by healyzh＠aracnet.com

> > > try to describe the scsi bus and termination. > > > do a probe-scsi and a probe-scsi-all... > > > > > > let me know what that does. > > I'm pretty sure that there is a Sun screwup in the Ultra1 boot ROM such > that "probe-scsi" doesn't work right when "auto-boot" is enabled. > > auto-boot?=false After turning off auto-boot you need to type 'reset' and hit return, this is true on both Ultra 1's and 2's. If the auto-boot is already off, you still need to do a 'reset' before doing teh probe-scsi/probe-scsi-all. Zane

24 years, 2 months

2
2
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Unix versions

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Apr 26, 10:19, Bill Pechter wrote: > > I'm slightly puzzled by what you say about DEC X-11, though. My exposure > > to it and XXDP is only in the form of the diagnostics available to end > > users and third-party service organisations, and I suspect there's more to > > it than that. The reason I think of XXDP as the OS and X-11 as the, well, > > application in a way, is that all I see are the X-11 modules to run build > > and series of tests, whereas XXDP includes the monitor, system handlers etc > > (as well as the diagnostic programs and utilites, of course). To me, > > that's the OS. > > > > -- > > Pete Peter Turnbull > > Network Manager > > University of York > > You're exactly correct, except the XXDP doesn't have drivers for > the comm gear and other stuff, whereas DECX/11 can have modules > running simulating disk and tape i/o, comm i/o and can do task > scheduling and timeouts. Also DECX/11 is interrupt driven where most of > XXDP polls status registers. Yes, I knew about the polled operation. > I stretched my view a bit. DEC training called XXDP a diagnostic > monitor... which was ok until the DS> diagnostic supervisor got loose... > and the names collided. > > The XXDP monitor is single tasking, non-interrupt driven, polling and > can hang forever waiting for an event that never comes. DECX/11 won't. > DECX/11 seemed much more os-like. Batch streams do exist in XXDP > (the .ccc chain files) -- but that's just minimal scripting. Yes, .ccc is of rather limited use. Enough for sets of diagnostics and not much more, really. Thanks for the information -- I'm enlightened. Did DECX/11 ever make it outside of DEC's walls, other than in the form of strings of modules for field confidence tests? -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

24 years, 2 months

2
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Some new finds and Some Wanted Items

by jrkeys＠concentric.net

Picked new in the box Apple II SCSI Card for II Plus, IIe, and IIGS, has cool little wrench with the apple logo stamped in the metal. New in the box System 6 IIGS. New in the box HyperStudio for the IIGS, Version 3.1 with System 6.01. Books - Introduction to Analog Computation by Joseph J. Blum, Mac Internet Tour Guide with software, TEX for the BeginnerMicro-Computer Handbook by Charles J. Sippl (from 1977), the Z-80 microcomputer handbook by William Barden, Jr., Programming the Z80 3rd Ed. by Rodnay Zaks and last VAX software Source Book Volume 2 Systems software, second edition January 1985 by digital. A Sega PowerBack for the Gamegear ($2.99) at a local thrift and from the same place a Logitech joystick (digital 3D) for $3.99, and a cool controller for the PS1 for $2.99. Now for the wanted items - looking to complete my Mac collection that I started years ago trying to collect one of each model from 1984 to 1995 for a total of 103 machines. PB160 - working or not Mac 512Ke Quadra 800 WGS60 Performa 466, 467, 550, 275,, 560, 577,578, 658 Duo250, Duo270, Duo280, Color classic II 610DOS PM8100 WS6150, WS8150, WS9150 PB520c, PB540, PB540c, PB150 LC630 PF6110, PF6112, PF6115, PF6117, PF6118 6100/110 8100/100 If anyone has one or more of these that they would like to unload email me off list at jrkeys(a)concentric.net. Thanks for reading.

24 years, 2 months

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New 'Toy'

by pat＠purdueriots.com

Yesterday I was lucky enough to pick up an IBM 5150 at Purdue Salvage for $0 (just before it hit the trash). After a bit of playing with it, and trying a SVGA card with it (it had no video card in it when I got it, I'm suprised the 16bit card works OK in an 8bit slot), I've gotten it to boot into MS-DOS 5 (ick) and CP/M-86. I now seem to have a problem with its second floppy drive... When I try reading from any disk, I get a "Data error" in CP/M and DOS. I think that the problem is the head not moving... I can 'format' a disk in CP/M in the drive, but I don't hear the disk head seeking. These are IBM branded DSDD (full height 5-1/4") floppy drives. Does anyone have any info I can use to try and debug (and hopefully fix) this problem? -- Pat

24 years, 2 months

5
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"Toy" computers (was Re: Micro$oft Biz'droid Lusers)

by dquebbeman＠acm.org

> > > If it's a mainframe, then the campus is the enclosure, > > > while if it's a desktop, it's pretty obvious what that is. > > > > Today that campus worth of hardware is emulated in the hercules > > s360/370/390/ zSeries emulator http://www.conmicro.cx/hercules > > running on a PC running linux or winbloZ > > > > OS, DOS, MVS, VM ... running on your pc, serves x3270 > > terms over the network etc etc. > > Ow! You're killing me! What's the emoticon for the world's smallest violin? You're breakin' our hearts! ;)

24 years, 2 months

1
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Free DEC R400X DSSI expansion chassis

by fernande＠internet1.net

Free DEC R400X DSSI expansion chassis, plus a few other spare parts from the one I scrapped out. It has no drive sleds, unfortunetly. It is in Southwest Michigan, and you must come pick it up. I will not ship this thing. Please respond off list. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA

24 years, 2 months

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.I.P. for D.I.Y.

by dquebbeman＠acm.org

>> I got this URL for an article in Scientific American that seems > appropriate for this group :). The last paragraph reads: > > "Evidently, the something-for-everyone model epitomized by Heathkit and > the Amateur Scientist column can't compete anymore. Specialized sources > and Internet newsgroups cater to each skill level. But much of the > mentoring and serendipity that the diverse community of amateurs offered > has been lost. It is hard not to regret its passing." Well, I didn't know this about Edmund Scientific. Crap. I've been looking for the older catalogs, now even the more recent ones I've got will become collectable unobtainium. Where will I buy water wetter? Where will I buy Nitonol wire? Where will I buy flock paper? Where will I buy cheap assortment of lab glassware? Where will I buy an ultrasonic cleaner? Where will I buy a good Chinese microscope? and so on... <sob!>

24 years, 2 months

11
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FW: Adopted -- PC Convertible 5140

by rcini＠msn.com

I was contacted by the below person regarding a PC Convertible. I already have one so I'm passing this on to the list. Please contact Leigh directly. Rich -----Original Message----- From: Bluewolf Creative Arts [mailto:bluewolf.creative@verizon.net] Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2002 11:40 AM To: rcini(a)optonline.net Subject: RE: Adopted -- PC Convertible 5140 Hi Rich, Yes you may put the word out that I have a very nice one of these for sale - I'm thinking of putting it up on ebay to seewho nibbles, but I will wait until you contact your collector group first. Unfortunately I do not have a manual or any supporting software disks, etc - just the machine itself - which boots just fine and shows a window with commands at the bottom which I do not really understand - in addition to load/save/ - which is easy enough- there are commands for tron/troff/ and others. Here's my site: http://bluewolfcreative.com (still under construction) Best regards, Leigh >-----Original Message----- >From: Bluewolf Creative Arts [mailto:bluewolf.creative@verizon.net] >Sent: Friday, April 26, 2002 8:47 PM >To: rcini(a)optonline.net >Subject: Re: Adopted -- PC Convertible 5140 > > >Rich, I recently acquired one of these machines also - >it's an IBM PC Convertible 5140 in perfect condition... >however, I am a mac person, so I am looking to sell >this machine. Are you interested? It came without >the printer but the external power supply works just >fine... no manual... it boots up just fine - tried some >dos commands but no luck - how does one work >this thing? It's pretty cute - looks like new... > >Leigh in Palm Springs CA SA

24 years, 2 months

1
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Mark-8 parts for sale

by MTPro＠aol.com

Thank you to everyone who responded to my ad to sell my Mark-8 kit. For anyone interested in the boards or additional parts, here is the man to contact: Steve Gabaly Apalachin, NY old_computers(a)yahoo.com Steve's a good guy and has painstakingly created his Mark-8s and parts, etc. His CD contains a wealth of great info including a copy of the original Radio Electronics article, a supplemental 47 page construction article, a 50 page manual detailing his experience and hints debugging this computer (with many photos and full scans of completed boards), and about 200 pages of the Mark-8 newsletter (the first real computer hobbyist newsletter that kept all the early pioneers informed before Byte came out, its a treasure chest of historical information about the Mark-8 and other early computers, the January 1975 issue is especially interesting, this is when the Altair was introduced). Best, David Greelish Classic Computing www.classiccomputing.com "classiccomputing" on eBay

24 years, 2 months

1
0
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Mathiputer

by hybridhybrid＠msn.com

Are you interested in another mathiputer - let me know Smith

24 years, 2 months

1
0
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Hp2100 software available. Where ?

by CAA007216＠mail.ono.es

Hello everybody. I should like to probe the HP2100 simulator available under Bob Supnik's SIMH. Is there any software repository available for this machine ? I know the Jeff Moffat's website programs only, but somebody spoke here some time ago about some other place where to get software for this machine. Greetings Sergio

24 years, 2 months

3
2
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Amstrad PPC640

by GColinwg＠aol.com

Hello my name is Colin from (UK) i also have just got an Amstrad ppc640 just for messing around on.... but it doesn't have any operating system on it and won't recognise any disks as when i boot it up it always says invalid system disk... i am using both 720k diskettes and have tried 1.44meg and tried putting all dos versions and windows 95 onto it.... any advice would be most grateful.... Yours... Colin E-mail ---- GColinwg(a)aol.com

24 years, 2 months

4
3
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expansion differences (was Re: Micro$oft Biz'droid Lusers)

by dquebbeman＠acm.org

> SCOPE and Kronos were based on Chippewa. COS was largely > written by Seymour Cray; in particular, MTR is known by > programmers who worked on it later to have been written > completely by Cray. He and one or perhaps two others did > it between June and December 1964. I should point out here that Cray's MTR continued through NOS/BE 1.4 or later, but the Kronos version was rewritten >from scratch by Greg Mansfield. -dq

24 years, 2 months

1
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expansion differences (was Re: Micro$oft Biz'droid Lusers)

by dquebbeman＠acm.org

> Chippewa??? I don't remember that one. I remember SCOPE > and, later, KRONOS. SCOPE and Kronos were based on Chippewa. COS was largely written by Seymour Cray; in particular, MTR is known by programmers who worked on it later to have been written completely by Cray. He and one or perhaps two others did it between June and December 1964. It was not meant to be a product. The *product* operating system to be bundled with the machine was SIPROS. SIPROS used an assembler named ASCENT that used different mnemonics thsn COMPASS, which was the assembler under SCOPE and Kronos. COS was written in octal. The source consists of two octal numbers, a load address, two spaces, and the value at that address. Further to the left in the traditional "comment field" area is indeed a comment field, so the COS octal source at least has some comments. There is a CP program named APRAB that assembles these octal sources to binary. COS also included Garner McCrossen's RUN compiler, which handled both FORTRAN II and FORTRAN IV, as well as embedded assembly language. The first versions of the display console programs DSD and DIS come from Chippewa, as well as the control cards COPY COPYCR COPYCF COPYBR COPYBF COPYSBF REWIND VERIFY LBC LOC PBC DMP plus concepts like the dayfile, control points, combined input & output (CIO), and the RUN compiler continued to be available in the later SCOPE and Kronos. You can read all about it at http://www.spies.com/~aek/pdf/cdc/60124500_ChippewaOSref.pdf -dq

24 years, 2 months

1
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Serendipity (Was: Re: Micro$oft Biz'droid Lusers (was: OT email response format))

by dquebbeman＠acm.org

> From: "Richard Erlacher" <edick(a)idcomm.com> > > Lots of perfectly useable computers started out as little > more than toys. [..snip..] > Nevertheless, Ed Roberts has gone on record as saying he didn't intend the > thing to grow into a computer, which suggests that he didn't originally view > it as one. The Processor Technology SOL likewise was not intended to be a stand-alone computer. Lee had in mind a terminal for use with connecting to real computers. I can't recall if he and Bob Marsh just looked at each other one day and realized it could be more, or if the stand-alone concept originated with Les Solomon. Bob Stek? Jim Battle? What do you recall? -dq

24 years, 2 months

1
0
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"Windows V1.0"

by fmc＠reanimators.org

"Eric J. Korpela" <korpela(a)ssl.berkeley.edu> wrote: > Windows didn't really have 386 support until 3.0 Um, I think the Windows Virtual Machine Manager (and the notion of using multiple V86-mode VMs and virtual device drivers to run multiple DOS windows concurrently) first turned up in Windows/386. ObClassiccmp: this was long enough ago to be on topic. Hey Fred, is there any room over there on the Group Grumpy bench? -Frank McConnell

24 years, 2 months

2
1
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expansion differences (was Re: Micro$oft Biz'droid Lusers)

by mhstein＠canada.com

Fred, you're my man! All the same printers, among others, that I used with my CBM PETs (except the LJ which came later, and my Diablo was the model without the 4004), and they were all FINE printers, especially the 101 (a substantial piece of hardware indeed); still have the 40 foot (!) parallel ribbon cable so I could keep the printer in the basement & close the door to keep the noise reasonable upstairs in the office... mike ----------------Original Message------------------- Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 10:53:04 -0700 (PDT) From: "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" <cisin(a)xenosoft.com> Subject: Re: expansion differences (was Re: Micro$oft Biz'droid Lusers) > The only printers for the coco really was the RS ones and really crappy > at that too! ANY "RS-232" printer that was switchable to "AUTO LF" would work just fine. And, with a serial/parallel converter (reaily available, and which quite a few people here are capable of building), parallel "centronics" printers worked. I used a Coco with DTC-300 (HiType I daisy wheel, with 4004 processor), Centronics 101 (weighed 4 zillion times what the computer did), silly radio shack pen plotter/printer, Epson MX-100, and HP Laserjet! Which of those is the crappiest?

24 years, 2 months

1
0
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expansion differences (was Re: Micro$oft Biz'droid Lusers)

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Richard Erlacher [mailto:edick@idcomm.com] > When you opened the box with your COCO, what useful work > would it do with the > $399 you had just spent? Could you write a letter? Could As with any computer, you'd need software. Let's take that into account, and say that you could certainly get software on ROM cartridges, and that you could plug a normal household tape recorder in and store data on cassette. Sure, it's not the greatest thing in the world, but it will "balance the checkbook" that way. > you write and > compile a Fortran program? Could you save your work in any I'm not sure whether there were any compilers available that didn't require disk drives. It would have been possible (not fun) given the proper programs. > meaningful way? > Given that you had a printer, could you attach it and use it? Yes, if it was a serial printer. Most software that used a printer depended on having a serial printer plugged into that port on the back of the system. If it was parallel, you'd need a converter. > What software > was there, that you could install and use? How and where > would you install Cartridge slot or cassette tape. Again, there was some available. I'm not sure that it would be enough to constitute "lots," but there was certainly some of most types of software. > it? When you finally decided you had to build your own > hardware and write > your own software, wouldn't it have been easier to use a > wirewrap card and a > CPU chip and start from scratch rather than having to work I'm sure it depends on what you're doing. It seemed to me that the bus slot in the side would have been simple enough to use for hardware add-ons, and you could certainly program the thing in machine code, if nothing else. > hardware didn't cost less if you used one of the "toy"-based > systems, and the > software wasn't any more available than if you'd used a > "real" computer. It Home computers have never been in the same class as "real computers". I'll be the first one to suggest that; they probably never will, either. I would say that it depends on whether you wanted to do "home computer" things, or something more. Certainly it would cost quite a bit of money to make them do something they weren't designed to do, but if your needs fit the design, they were probably fine. Even adding disks would have still been less expensive than the "real computers" of the day. > near the bottom. For something equal to, say, and Apple][,. > I'd say you'd pay > nearly twice what a well-purchased Apple][ would have cost > for a RS product of > nearly similar actual capabilities. RS never did build > something genuinely > intended for expansion though, did they? That was a complaint of mine too. Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

24 years, 2 months

4
4
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expansion differences (was Re: Micro$oft Biz'droid Lusers)

by dquebbeman＠acm.org

> Christopher Smith wrote: > > you write and > > > compile a Fortran program? Could you save your work in any > > > > I'm not sure whether there were any compilers available that > > didn't require disk drives. It would have been possible (not > > fun) given the proper programs. > > Fortran II could compile from paper tape on the IBM 1620. > The PDP-8 had I think a paper tape version of fortran too, > but not sure what version, II or IV. I think this might be an articial distinction... All the operating systems for the CDC 6600 and its kin required some kind of disk or drum drive, where parts of the operating system would reside. However, the compiler itself could just as easily have been loaded and run from tape in the Chippewa OS. The FORTRAN programs it processed could be on magtape or on cards; Chippewa doesn't seem to have any papertape support. There does not appear to be any support for the user or even the operator to have disk-resident files, as there was no filesystem to speak of in Chippewa. -dq

24 years, 2 months

2
1
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"Toy" computers (was Re: Micro$oft Biz'droid Lusers)

by mythtech＠mac.com

>Well, OK. I didn't explicitly mention that they made floppies for the >floppy port. Bu "exactly one", I meant "hard disks" to show that it >wasn't commonly done. Ah yes... beyond floppies, the Apple HD20 is the only other device by ANYONE that I am aware of for the Mac floppy port (their might be other stuff... I'm just not aware of them). But floppy drives were available >from a number of vendors. >I do not >recall if a FDHD drive will work, even at 800K, in a Mac that isn't >expecting it. I have one FDHD SE and several 800K SEs; I suppose if >I were ever curious enough, I could test the theory. I don't think it could be done with Apple branded drives unless you had the newer ROM that allowed the FDHD. However, there were some 3rd party external drives that worked with 1.44 3.5 disks, and even with 5.25 and PC disks. And those worked with older Macs (at least back to the Mac Plus, and I think as far back as the 512k or kE). I think Dayna was an example of a company that made a high density external drive for the Plus... and they had a model that had a 5.25 drive in the same case (only R/W pc format IIRC). But I assume such drives had an init and didn't "just work". I will be sure to test the AE drive I am getting from Dave tonight on my Mac Plus to see if it could read a 1.44 disk. -chris <http://www.mythtech.net>

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"Toy" computers (was Re: Micro$oft Biz'droid Lusers)

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Richard Erlacher [mailto:edick@idcomm.com] > Hey! I did say the mass storage interface had to be internal to the > "computer" and not necessarily the mass storage devices. Sure, but my point was, for instance, the C64 had drives that used what basically amounts to a straight serial (or is that parallel?) interface, and that is in the computer. But they're "toys," right? > campus is the enclosure, while if it's a desktop, it's pretty Is that like "the network is the computer?" :) > Besides, though I didn't originally point this out, some of > you guys have, as > toys, some of those very machines that you're pointing out > aren't really toys. > Are you guys trying to have it both ways? Just because they're not toys doesn't make it impossible to play with them like toys. We could just define anything that's not necessary for survival to be a toy, and be done with it. :) Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

24 years, 2 months

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"Toy" computers (was Re: Micro$oft Biz'droid Lusers)

by mythtech＠mac.com

>my PS/2 is a 'real' computer? err... change all my refs of PS/2 to PS2 (ie: Sony Playstation 2). Sorry, spent the day looking at IBM PS/2's (ie: the computer), so the slash just jumped its way in there. -chris <http://www.mythtech.net>

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IBM PC 5150

by mhstein＠canada.com

>Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 19:16:58 -0700 (PDT) >From: "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" <cisin(a)xenosoft.com> >Subject: RE: Period pricing references (was Re: Micro$oft Biz'droid Lusers) >Did yours have the extra DB blockoff plate on the back panel? Yup! >Did it have a drive mounting screw coming up from the bottom? Yup! >My first 5150 came from IBM with a WHITE (NOT RED!) power switch, and a >BLACK power supply (63.5W?) Mine too! With very few, very stiff and very short connecting cables. >These days, I hardly EVER even see the 16K-64K motherboard ones. Well, I threw out the case a while ago, but still have the motherboard, some keyboards and maybe even the black PSU, as well as some IBM TM100 faceplates, if anybody's interested. mike

24 years, 2 months

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"Toy" computers (was Re: Micro$oft Biz'droid Lusers)

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Richard Erlacher [mailto:edick@idcomm.com] > > That pretty much describes commodore disk drives, yep. The > An external IDE drive would be hazardous thing to use because > of cable length. Didn't think of that -- you're probably right. > > handled all of the complexities of disk I/O, so that the CPU didn't > > need to -- so there are good points to them. > What you may have had, then, is a toy with a computer as a > peripheral. That > was probably quite a bit after the time reference of 1980. Actually, I don't remember what CPU was in the 1541 drives, but I seem to recall that it was actually more powerful than the computer. I also remember somebody working on a way to get code into the drive to be executed, but that's kind of fuzzy. > What I am focused on is where the intelligence to run the I/O > resides. Once So does the computer have to come with it, or simply allow space for it on the inside of the case? > peripherals made great deal of sense. However, it resulted > in ugly and > awkward packaging, which was addressed even later with more > elegant interface > standards, say, by 1986, with the standardization of SCSI. Well, I certainly won't argue with that. > > Would you also have considered 9-track tape "mass storage" for the > > time? > I'd tread lightly around that subject, unless your Atari or > whatever, had a > 9-track drive in '80 or so. Obviously not, I'm just curious as to whether it would need to be some form of "fast" disk-like storage, or if a high-capacity tape would be ok. Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

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Micro$oft Biz'droid Lusers (was: OT email response format)

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Richard Erlacher [mailto:edick@idcomm.com] > Open the box. Open the S-100 mainframe. Open the individual Wow, an S-100 mainframe. I want one of those. :) Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

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Micro$oft Biz'droid Lusers (was: OT email response format)

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: r. 'bear' stricklin [mailto:red@bears.org] > I have worse news: today, it's called a Macintosh. Before you > argue with > me, consider that nobody in their right mind would want to > buy a computer > with less than 10% market penetration, without a pretty > compelling reason. Having considered that, I've decided that the fact that it's a very nice system, and you prefer it to a Macintosh is a compelling reason to buy a system with less than 10% market penetration. Of course, there's also the "which market" argument, which I don't think I have to get into... > I find that most Mac users I talk to have compelling reasons > for owning > Macs. People that want a PC will buy a PC. People that want a They like them; indeed, that's a compelling reason. No matter how good the system is, you can't do a thing with it if you're not comfortable with it. (well, ok, you can, but it's much harder) > Mac will buy > a Mac. People that want a computer will buy a PC (though IMO > they would be > better served with Macs, but that's solely my own opinion and They certainly would, though that's not really high praise for Macintosh. They'd be better off with an Atari 400. :) People buy peesees for one of four reasons: They favor them -- usually because they've never seen anything else. Their friend-who-knows-everything-about-computers likes them (yeah...) Everybody else is doing it They don't know that anything else exists I can't think of another reason to buy a peesee. Personally, I'm much happier with my used workstation than I would be if I'd bought a peesee at the same time, for about twice the money. Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

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Micro$oft Biz'droid Lusers (was: OT email response format)

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Richard Erlacher [mailto:edick@idcomm.com] > ... and you feel it's warranted to spend vast amounts of > money, which the > Altair cost, on a machine with no means for putting code/data > in or out except > for single-bit LED's and a few switches when there's no other > means for > inserting/extracting information? Even Ed Roberts indicated Dick, I think you're the only one on the list who _wouldn't_ spend vast amounts of time and money for a computer like that ;) Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

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Sun help needed... [was: RE: open "dumpster" event in New Haven, CT]

by mythtech＠mac.com

> This may be an off-topic post, but Chris is nuts for old HP laser >printers and old Macs! More nuts for old Macs and Apple's. I wouldn't have done the drive for the printers if I didn't have a use for them. But for Mac's or Apple's... yeah, I'd have done it just to add yet another one to my pile (and if it was one I didn't already have... then I would have driven even farther) -chris <http://www.mythtech.net>

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URGENT: 1979 vintage Linoterm system needs home!

by kyrrin＠bluefeathertech.com

Hi, gang, Even though my interests have swung pretty much back to ham radio, etc., I still get the occasional E-mail advising me of a classic computing system that needs a new home. This one's a doozy -- an honest-to-God Mergenthaler 'Linoterm' system. The owner is located in the Puget Sound region, Washington state. Please contact him directly using the info in the following note. Note that this one is time-critical. If you can help this fellow, please contact him ASAP. Thanks much. Message copy follows. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Hi Bruce - I have a Mergenthaler Linoterm Model 50M computer phototypesetter, and it needs a home. It was bought new by the previous owner (a Seattle ad-agency owner) in 1979 for roughly $52,000. This machine is the transition between the hot-lead Linotype mechanical typesetters and the Linotronic, the first of today's computerized typesetting gear. The Linoterm set what might be the all-time high-water mark for typographic quality. There's a combined CRT/keyboard terminal that runs everything (looks like a Wang VS terminal). The main processor is a big cardcage that holds a bunch of doormat-sized circuit cards (looks to be TTL) with 16K of RAM, and (2) 8" floppy drives. The typesetting unit is optical, controlled by a Z80 chip. OS is supposed to be proprietary, but it seems to respond to typical CP/M commands, so it's probably CP/M with some custom extensions. Then there's quite a bit of support equipment and accessories, a good batch of 8" floppies (old files, training stuff, and the OS), and a complete set of manuals. I had it cabled up and running about five years ago, so it's all there and it all works. We just moved a few weeks ago from Mill Creek (just south of Everett) to Burlington, which is why I need to find a new home for the Linoterm. It's in the garage at our old place in Mill Creek, so when that place sells, it needs to be gone. I also have quite a few other vintage bits and pieces that might belong in somebody's restoration, but those were small and easily moved. The Linoterm is good-sized, about a pickup load, and weighs a couple hundred pounds. Thanks for any help you can give me on this: I'd hate to have to just scrap it. - Rick Harrison - rgh(a)fidalgo.net - richardgharrison(a)yahoo.com - (360) 707-5989 (land line and answering machine) - (425) 330-2084 (cell phone) PS: I don't have the scanner hooked up at the new place yet, but if some scans out of the manual will find it a home, I'll get it hooked up, just let me know. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com ARS KC7GR (Formerly WD6EOS) since 12-77 -- kyrrin(a)bluefeathertech.com "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates that it would be superior to what I have now..." (Taki Kogoma, aka Gym Z. Quirk)

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Micro$oft Biz'droid Lusers (was: OT email response format)

by DAW＠yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu

> From: Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) > > > > Altair cost, on a machine with no means for putting code/data > > Dick, I think you're the only one on the list who _wouldn't_ spend > > vast amounts of time and money for a computer like that ;) > > Isn't that one of the ones for which he saves the power cord and dumpsters > the machine EVERY time he finds one? > Did someone say power cords??? I got a box of about 4 dozen if you need any. -- --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 Mac OS X 10.1.2 - Darwin Kernel Version 5.2: Fri Dec 7 21:39:35 PST 2001 Running since 01/22/2002 without a crash

24 years, 2 months

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Sysgen Omni-Bridge Floppy Controller

by tarsi＠binhost.com

Anyone got docs or at least jumper settings for an 8-bit Sysgen Omni-Bridge Floppy Controller? I just found one and it works (or at least it loads its BIOS on boot) and so I'd like to get it going. I'm gonna try to run it in an AT&T 6300. Thanks! Tarsi 210

24 years, 2 months

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Hp2100 software available. Where ?

by aek＠spies.com

> Next question: Where ? You probably aren't going to find a disc image that you can boot on SIMH in the near future. HP sold EACH program separately, and what is currently available are several thousand paper tape images that will require someone with DOS or RTE experence to sysgen. You will need the docs, too, which currently have been scanned, but haven't been cleaned up or pdf-ed and won't be available for at least a month.

24 years, 2 months

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Fluke 9010 Micro-System Troubleshooter ??

by aek＠spies.com

> Does anyone know where I could pick up/buy one of these pieces of test > equipment? I have several without pods (the expensive part)

24 years, 2 months

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Hp2100 software available. Where ?

by CAA007216＠mail.ono.es

Thanks. Do it exist some available copy of some operative OS for the HP2100 (in form of PaperTape, Virtual Disk or so) ? Greetings Sergio ----- Mensaje Original ----- Remitente: "Jay West" <jwest(a)classiccmp.org> Fecha: Viernes, Abril 26, 2002 1:50 pm Asunto: Re: Hp2100 software available. Where ? > I am building an archive at www.classiccmp.org/HP for hp software. > Note that > the "HP" in that url must be capitalized or you'll get a different > site. I > just started putting stuff there so there isn't a huge amount, but > it is > growing very rapidly thanks to Al's great hard work scanning > documents and > reading paper tapes. > > If there's any software you're looking for that you don't see > there, just > let me know. > > Jay West > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Sergio Pedraja Cabo" <CAA007216(a)mail.ono.es> > To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> > Sent: Friday, April 26, 2002 5:08 AM > Subject: Hp2100 software available. Where ? > > > > > > Hello everybody. I should like to probe the HP2100 simulator > available> under Bob Supnik's SIMH. Is there any software > repository available > > for this machine ? I know the Jeff Moffat's website programs only, > > but somebody spoke here some time ago about some other place where > > to get software for this machine. > > > > Greetings > > > > Sergio > > > > > > > > > > >

24 years, 2 months

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Sun help needed... [was: RE: open "dumpster" event in New Hav en, CT]

by cdl＠proxima.ucsd.edu

> From: David Woyciesjes <DAW(a)yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> > To: "'classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org'" <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> > Subject: RE: Sun help needed... [was: RE: open "dumpster" event in New Hav > en, CT] > Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 11:11:26 -0400 > Sender: owner-classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org > Reply-To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org > > > From: Bill Pechter > > > > > Anyway, to my point... This is off-topic, so taking it off-list is > > > appropriate I believe... I have a Sun Ultra1 Creator. (170E, Open Boot > > 3.1, > > > 128 MB RAM, 4 GB Quantum, 1 GB Conner, floppy disk... old 19" Sun color > > > monitor, type 5c keyb, optical mouse w/proper silver pad!) Well, now > > that I > > > finally got the Creator framebuffer replaced, it's time to load Solaris. > > > Except that all the CD-ROMS I have aren't even seen by the console... > > And I > > > tried the sector size jumper both ways. > > > > > > -- > > > > try to describe the scsi bus and termination. > > do a probe-scsi and a probe-scsi-all... > > > > let me know what that does. I'm pretty sure that there is a Sun screwup in the Ultra1 boot ROM such that "probe-scsi" doesn't work right when "auto-boot" is enabled. auto-boot?=false carl -- carl lowenstein marine physical lab u.c. san diego clowenstein(a)ucsd.edu

24 years, 2 months

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WTD: Datasheets for PMC Sierra modem chips

by philpem＠bigfoot.com

Hi, I've just been going through a load of old boards that I had occupying space and I'd like to put some of the components to good use. I've already located datasheets for a Motorola DSP56001FE27 digital signal processor I found (time to build an MP3 player!), but a few of the parts have turned up dead ends for data. The parts in question are Sierra Semiconductor (now PMC-Sierra) SC11011CV/ADA, SC11026CN and SC22201CN chips, used on what appears to be an old modem. I've had a look on FreeTradeZone (free? not bloody likely) and the datasheets have been locked (the chips are obsolete). Anyone got PDFs (or paper copies) of these datasheets? I'd like to get these chips doing something (other than taking up valuable space), but it's a bit diffiicult without the datasheets! Thanks. -- Phil. philpem(a)bigfoot.com http://www.philpem.btinternet.co.uk/

24 years, 2 months

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Some new finds and Some Wanted Items

by mythtech＠mac.com

>Thanks but I already have 2 LC550's in the collection. These 34 or so >are the one's I really need to make it complete. It started out as 103 >models but now because models I didn't know about but have picked over >the years it may end up over 150 different models. I will print the >list once the collection is done. Thanks for the offer. You are being a little more religious than I. I just want one of every major model (so Performa 475, LC 475 or Quadra 605, doesn't matter to me, since they are all the same model... also I'm not going after getting a 475,476,478 or other submodels). I am sure once I get one of every major model, I will then probably follow in your footsteps and try to get one of everything out there. -chris <http://www.mythtech.net>

24 years, 2 months

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expansion differences (was Re: Micro$oft Biz'droid Lusers)

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Ben Franchuk [mailto:bfranchuk@jetnet.ab.ca] > Christopher Smith wrote: > > I'm not sure whether there were any compilers available that > > didn't require disk drives. It would have been possible (not > > fun) given the proper programs. > Fortran II could compile from paper tape on the IBM 1620. > The PDP-8 had I think a paper tape version of fortran too, > but not sure > what version, II or IV. ... but we were talking about the Tandy Color Computer, specifically. :) Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

24 years, 2 months

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Some new finds and Some Wanted Items

by mythtech＠mac.com

>Performa 466, 467, 550, 275,, 560, 577,578, 658 How specific are you to the titel stamped on the case? I can give you an LC 550, but not a "Performa" 550. -chris <http://www.mythtech.net>

24 years, 2 months

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