- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by pat＠purdueriots.com

I just got one of these. It powers up, the lights on the back flicker nicely, and it appears to be outputting crap to the MMJ serial port labeled '3', but for the life of me I can't figure out what speed it's at. I've tried minicom at 300,1200,2400,4800.9600.19200,38400, and 57600 with no success. I've even tried 7-N-1 and 7-E-1 (7bits no/even parity and 1 stopbit) along with 8-n-1, no luck. Anyone have more of a clue than I do? -- Pat

24 years, 1 month

2
1
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MicroVAX 3100/90

by Antonio.Carlini＠riverstonenet.com

>I just got one of these. It powers up, the lights on the back flicker >nicely, and it appears to be outputting crap to the MMJ serial port >labeled '3', but for the life of me I can't figure out what speed it's at. >I've tried minicom at 300,1200,2400,4800.9600.19200,38400, and 57600 with >no success. I've even tried 7-N-1 and 7-E-1 (7bits no/even parity and 1 >stopbit) along with 8-n-1, no luck. There should be a little slide switch at the back. When it is up it will use that port (3 - with the printer icon) at whatever speed: usually 9600 8-N. I've never tried via a minicom - do you have a dumb terminal, preferably a VT200/300/400 and a known good set of connectors and cables? Antonio

24 years, 1 month

2
1
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[CCTALK] Commodore 1541 Drive

by pat＠purdueriots.com

I'm trying to get one, and wondering what success people have had with connecting them to a PC using "X-Cables" and "Star commander" to transfer data ( http://sta.c64.org/sc.html ). Also, is there any chance of making a 1541 read an Apple ][ disk? I know they both use GCR encodings for their disks, and it'd be really useful if I could read disks on my PC. Also, does anyone know anywhere I could get a Compaticard (and any necessary drivers to make it useful)? I've looked on ebay a few times now and still haven't seen one... -- Pat

24 years, 1 month

11
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[CCTALK] transistor counts again

by dwightk.elvey＠amd.com

One of the 4's was for the bus size. It was a multiplexed synchronous bus. It had 8 phases. 3 were for address and one was for the rom. One or two were alu and I don't recall what the other was for but I think it was bank selects. Each device would watch the instruction and would do the right thing ( I/O or RAM ) when it's time came around. One might call it smart I/O. This way, the processor didn't have to have the additional pins to select the function for the bus. Dwight >From: "Sellam Ismail" <foo(a)siconic.com> > >On Thu, 16 May 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > >> I find that hard to believe. The 4004 was part of a chipset containing >> the 4001 (ROM), 4002 (RAM) and 4003 (I forget exactly what, some kind of >> I/O?). The 4001 and 4002 parts were used in lots of 4004 or 4040-based >> designs. > >And according to Ted Hoff, it was quite by accident that it ended up with >part number 4004. Coincidence and all. > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > >_______________________________________________ >cctalk mailing list >cctalk(a)classiccmp.org >http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctalk >

24 years, 1 month

7
8
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[CCTALK] Subdivide further Jay

by lgwalker＠mts.net

Damn after being away 2 weeks my mailbox was jammed with msg's. Here's a suggestion to cut down the traffic. I've long thought that CC should be subdivided into micros and minis. I imagine many scroll down the messages and delete anything related to DEC PDP, VAX, and any other mini stuff like I do, and I'm sure the mini and big iron people do the same. There seems to be almost a pattern of mini, then micro threads that happen as can be seen in the archives. I do occasionally enjoy the mini threads, but usually I just delete them. And that goes back to 97 or so. I also get the impression that the mini folk are annoyed in general with the micro traffic. Cool, don't spit on my Amiga and I won't spit on your PDP. It would be easy to subscribe to both lists for those who have a broader perspective, but would ease up on those of us who don't. Just looking to optimise my time. Lawrence lgwalker(a)mts.net bigwalk_ca(a)yahoo.com

24 years, 1 month

9
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[CCTALK] Good Trip / good Score

by lgwalker＠mts.net

Just did a trip to BC from Central Manitoba. That's in Canada, eh, Yank. Thanks to Alex W. I picked up a Dec Rainbow+ w/color card and a DEC VR240 and a DEC printer and some PS/2 stuff. Finally I have one as a DEC Rainbow should be - in color In Vancouver I hit the mother lode. I had also arranged to pick up there an Osborne I w/manuals, software, and a 12"x12" Summa graphics Tablet w/4 directional mouse. Also a box of viginal 8" diskettes. Van is great for yard sales and also they do a spring garbage blow-out. PICKIN" TIME !! An Amiga 1000 that I almost missed cause it was still in it's styro pkgng. Same garbage, a clean C-64C with PSU, nice 1802 , and a 1541 fdd. Mac keyboard, LT mouse, large wheel mouse, box of C64 disks, Lloyds TV Sports Gamer, and passed on a Tandy ARM at $15 (which I now regret.) 3x IBM newer PS/2 machines and an integrated AST, several 15' SVGA monitors. A box with about 50 TRS-80 zines A box of Intellivision carts and about 8 Adam tapes, A SHARP PC 3000. After cleaning out the battery compartment and using new batteries it worked. DOS 3.1 w/a pcmcia card whose Li. battery is surely dead as is the notepad's. And many non-computer items. The Sharp 3k is a neat little 8088 handheld about the size of an Atari Portfolio. Sharp brought it out after high sales of it's Poqet but retreated when some of the heavier-duty co's. attacked that market Based on the numerous site info it's a great machine related somehow to the HP95. At least it can use the HP PCMCIA's if I understood correctly.( IIUC) Anyone here a fan of this hand-held ? Lawrence lgwalker(a)mts.net bigwalk_ca(a)yahoo.com

24 years, 1 month

5
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IBM Series/1

by martinm＠allwest.net

I've run into an IBM Series/1 computer available for the hauling. I need advice as to whether it is worth saving. Space is somewhat tight and it is a large rack (requiring 220 VAC), printer and, supposedly, a console terminal. Relevant part numbers are: 4955 IBM Processor, Series/1 4963 IBM Disk Subsystem 4965 IBM Diskette Drive and I/O Expansion Unit 4975 Printer Some googling indicates that it ran an OS called EDX (Event Driven Executive?). I found some mention of a *nix that ran on it. The computer was released around 1976. This one was working when retired years ago. The rack and printer are in a basement and the console terminal, some manuals, etc. are supposed to be in a storage unit. Specs that I have found show that the disk is a 68 MB drive that weighs about 150 pounds alone. Is saving this computer worth the aching back? Anybody have advice, war stories, links or other information on this old beast? Thank you, Martin Marshall

24 years, 1 month

11
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[CCTALK] RE: [CCTECH] TRS-80 Model 1

by DAW＠yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu

> From: Sellam Ismail > > On Wed, 15 May 2002, David Woyciesjes wrote: > > > > Note: As a benefit to those here on the cctech side of the list who > value > > > topical messages, I am only sending these many referrals I receive > every > > > month to cctech. > > > > Ummm, aren't all cctech messages supposed to automatically get sent > > to cctalk also? If so, then that 'benefit' wouldn't exactly work they > way > > you intend, Sellam... > > Err, you're right. This new list is too confusing. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer > Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > Well, not really. cctech is moderated, to help block spam, and keep out the OT messages. it is also sent to cctalk, so everyone can see all the messages. cctalk is just that. A big room full of conversations that go anywhere... cctalk are getting the messages from here, right? -- --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 Mac OS X 10.1 - Darwin Kernel Version 5 Running since 01/22/2002 without a crash _______________________________________________ cctech mailing list cctech(a)classiccmp.org http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctech

24 years, 1 month

7
8
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[CCTALK] EPROM Life... Was: scanners & circuit boards...

by CordaAJ＠NSWC.NAVY.MIL

Now, I don't know the construction/nature of the tubes used in scanners, but I myself would be wary of photocopying or scanning a PC board with an unprotected (i.e. uncovered) EPROM window face-down on the scanning surface. My reasoning is as follows; Although a fluorescent tube in good condition shouldn't emit much UV, one has to remember the way such a bulb functions. The excited gas inside the tube emits almost entirely in the UV spectrum. This is converted to the visible spectrum by the phospor coating on the inside surface of the tube. Over time, I have seen some of the coating flake off the inside of old flourescent tubes, providing a bunch of small UV "windows". Most UV Eproms begin to erase when exposed to UV wavelengths shorter than 4000 A (Angstroms). I found the following statement concerning EPROM sensitivity to UV light on page 10-9 of the National Semiconductor 1984 "CMOS Databook" (and yes, I _am_ a packrat when it comes to old databooks :-) concerning the 27C16 (a very common older type of EPROM): Erasure Characteristics: "... It should be noted that sunlight and certain types of fluorescent lamps have wavelengths in the 3000 A - 4000 A range. Data shows that constant exposure to room-level flourescent lighting could erase the typical NMC27C16 in approximately 3 Years, while it would take approximately 1 week to cause erasure when exposed to direct sunlight..." Also, one must keep in mind that the timeframes listed above are probably derived from studies of "freshly programmed" eproms. Most of the ones we would be interested in would already have a number of years of charge decay under their belts. I was unable to find a reference to a finite lifetime for UV Eproms, but I seem to vaguely recall that there is a limit (~10 Years? sounds short, but I seem to remember reading it somewhere. Does anyone have this number at hand?) The end result of all this is that if you have any equipment you consider valuable, and it has windowed EPROMS, make certain that the windows are covered with an opague sticker. You might also consider dumping their contents to a data file for archival purposes. (and possibly re-programming them to effectively "refresh" them). -al- -acorda(a)1bigred.com > -----Original Message----- > From: Tothwolf [mailto:tothwolf@concentric.net] > Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2002 4:16 PM > To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: [CCTALK] [CCTECH] scanners & circuit boards... > > > On Wed, 15 May 2002, Jeff Hellige wrote: > > > What's everyone's thoughts on placing circuit boards directly on the > > bed of a scanner for imaging? Any possibility of damage to > the board > > from the light or other parts of the scanner? I've done it before > > with good results but not with anything truly unique. > > I'd be more concerned with accidentally scratching the glass > bed of the > scanner due to sharp component leads. I guess that there is a slight > possibility of degrading the contents of an EPROM if its window isn't > covered. The fluorescent tube the scanner uses to illuminate the bed > really shouldn't be emitting too much in the way of UV or > near UV light > though. Other than UV erasable components that don't have their window > covered, I can't think of anything else I'd be concerned about. > > -Toth > > _______________________________________________ > cctalk mailing list > cctalk(a)classiccmp.org > http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctalk >

24 years, 1 month

4
3
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DEC 3000

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Dan Kolb [mailto:dankolb@ox.compsoc.net] > turn it into a VMS system - would 400Mb hard drive be enough > to have a > working VMS + DECWindows + Multinet (and various useful internet > programs, like IRC ;-)? Also, would there be any potential Plenty of room. I have a disk no larger than 300M with VMS 7.2 for VAX, DECWindows, DECNet, UCX (by any other name), etc, and space left. Of course, I use a separate, external 600MB disk for user home directories and the like. I wouldn't except the Alpha version is much larger. Just be careful not to overload it with stuff you won't use. > problems with > simply pulling the CD drive out of my 3000/400, sticking it into the > 3000/300L, and booting VMS from the CD? Are they both single-ended SCSI? My guess is no problems at all. Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

24 years, 1 month

2
1
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drivel

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Sridhar the POWERful [mailto:vance@ikickass.org] > > Wasn't the DEC 3000 an early Turbochannel Alpha system? Or am I all > > mixed up? > You are absolutely right. Just checking. I always thought that Merle would be busy hauling more sensational things... not that I dislike Turbochannel Alpha systems ;) Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

24 years, 1 month

1
0
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drivel

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Merle K. Peirce [mailto:at258@osfn.org] > "DEC 3000" Anyone familiar with this? Also we were given an Echo I Wasn't the DEC 3000 an early Turbochannel Alpha system? Or am I all mixed up? Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

24 years, 1 month

3
2
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DEC 3000

by DAW＠yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu

> From: Gordon Zaft > > At 01:40 PM 5/17/2002 -0700, you wrote: > >On Fri, 17 May 2002, Merle K. Peirce wrote: > > > > > That aside, we received an interesting donation today, an HP700 with > 660 > > > drive, also a7580? plotter and a Decstation 5000. Also in the lot was > a > > > "DEC 3000" Anyone familiar with this? Also we were given an Echo I > > > optical storage system. We were told it may have a Sun 1 cpu, Anyone > > > familair with this system? > > > >We've got a DEC 3000 at the ACCRC (Alameda County Computer Resource > >Center). So far it's been saved from the recycle bin but I'm not quite > >sure what to do with it yet. More accurately, it's been sitting in > >another part of the warehouse and hence is out of mind. It'll probably > >end up going into the VCF Archives. > > It's an Alpha-based system, runs VMS, Tru64 and NetBSD at > least. There's some info at: > > http://www.netbsd.org/Ports/alpha/models.html > On the back should be a sticker with more info, to tell you if its a 300, 400, 500, or whatever model... My 3000/400 is running pretty nice, I just need to find more memory for it... -- --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 Mac OS X 10.1 - Darwin Kernel Version 5 Running since 01/22/2002 without a crash

24 years, 1 month

1
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[CCTALK] cctalk list (CHANGES)

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Jay West [mailto:jwest@classiccmp.org] > > If that's the case, I don't think that will work. > Yes, it will work, but the responsibility is the choice of > the list member, > not mine. If one wants to see posts on both, they should join > both lists. > However, keep in mind that most people won't want to join > both, they will > only want one or the other. In the end, it's the users choice. Of course it would be possible for anyone who wants to be seen on cctech to join that list too, specifying that the mail from cctech shouldn't be delivered to your account, since you'll already get it >from cctalk, and then just send any posts which are squarely on topic there. They'd be bounced to cctalk, and everyone will see them. Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

24 years, 1 month

1
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[CCTECH] List problems?

by mrbill＠mrbill.net

On Fri, May 17, 2002 at 02:38:06PM -0400, David Woyciesjes wrote: > Nah, just seems that everybody took a long lunch, according to Dooug > Q... It was just kind of eery the way the messages just stopped. I had > (wrongly!) thought that the list server bombed. But it didn't... :-) I think Jay is still working on getting gatewaying between the two lists working properly. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill(a)mrbill.net Austin, TX _______________________________________________ cctech mailing list cctech(a)classiccmp.org http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctech

24 years, 1 month

1
0
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E&S PS-390

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Christopher Smith [mailto:csmith@amdocs.com] > I'd love to have at least one of those. Don't know if I'll have > the cash, though :/ That was actually supposed to go to Pat -- sorry guys. Anyway, the jig is up now, I do like E&S. :) Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

24 years, 1 month

7
6
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[CCTALK] Rants

by acme_ent＠bellsouth.net

> From: Raymond Moyers <rmoyers(a)nop.org> > I understand the thinking behind bifurcation of the list, > but this wont quell the foamy mouth shout-down/shoot-down > crowd that lay claim to that manufactured "civil" right > to protection against speach that they find offensive. Jay -- I find Mr. Moyers' speech to be offensive in the context of this list. In it, I found no reference to computers, or anything related to them. Additionally, he implicitly invokes our right to free speech, but seems to forget that this is a private mailing list, which means our rights may be limited here. As far as I understand it, we may say what we want on this list, but we may be banned from the list if we go too far. I think you have done a great job of splitting up the list and moving it to a new server and software. However, I would like to protect myself from Mr. Moyers' offensive rants. Since this is a private list, is there any mechanism for banishment of gross repeat offenders? It seems to me that very few subscribers would want to keep receiving the sort of messages Mr. Moyers continues to send. Glen 0/0

24 years, 1 month

11
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E&S PS-390

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Pat Finnegan [mailto:pat@purdueriots.com] > I saw a pair of Evans & Sutherland PS-390's (small end table > sized) down > at Purdue Salvage today. I was wondering if they had any > value... I saw a > few cables for them and keyboard and a digitizing tablet, but > no monitors. I'd love to have at least one of those. Don't know if I'll have the cash, though :/ Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

24 years, 1 month

1
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[CCTALK] Re: First SGI Workstations?

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Torquil MacCorkle III [mailto:torquil@rockbridge.net] First off, since I wasn't able to send this to cctech, I'll assume for now that the messages we send to this list are automatically forwarded for approval, or something like that. > Does SGI have a timeline or anything up anywhere. I am > wondering what > the first SGI workstation was(R2000 right?). I know they made > terminals > before that, But i am just wondering about workstations. They have a "periodic table of IRISes." Google ought to have some of them. Their first workstation was the IRIS 2000, I think. Or do you mean desktop workstation? :) The IRIS 2000 was based on a motorola 680xx chip of some kind. Their first smaller workstation was a "personal IRIS" system. It was a tower case. After that, the Indigo. I know specifically that the first Indigos used R3000 CPUs, but you'll have to look up the ones used in Personal IRIS and IRIS 2000. Also look at IRIS 3000, and IRIS Professional (I think those are the ones) systems, which were produced in between. (In that order) Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

24 years, 1 month

6
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[CCTALK] RE: Rants

by dougq＠iglou.com

> On Friday 17 May 2002 06:14, you wrote: > > > I think the obvious answer comes from the Church of the Subgenius: > > your first duty as a member is to form your own splinter sect. > > > > By putting each Classic Computer Collector in their own > > separate mailing list, we'll reduce the number of offended, > > minus those who can successfully argue with themselves > > either by virtue of nature, nuture or medication. > > Arent there variants of Eliza type programs that can do just that ? Raymond, some of us were wondering if it might not be the case that Raymond Moyers was such a program... > A lefty bot would be easy to program, it would need only > the standard reflexive stack of responses, and need have > no input or sensation of reality. Which would be no different than a righty bot, a Scientology Bot, etc. > Raymond > > Jimmy Carter said Monday he saw no evidence that Cuba makes > biological weapons. Last year he saw no evidence North Korea > makes nuclear weapons. It doesn't look dignified when a former > president campaigns that openly to be Archbishop of Boston. . > -- Argus Hamilton ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Although I don't think *anyone* on the list cares, it is usual and customary, when quoting people who are not widely known by a particular readership, to provide a statement as to who the person is who is being quoted. For example: > -- Argus Hamilton, right-wing comedian Otherwise, such quotes fall out of the category of commentary and into the category of propaganda... If you really are motivated by an altruistic desire to enlighten people with whom you view you have something special in common (the interest or love of vintage computing systems), let me tell you, the way you (and others) go about it does not work. OTOH, if self-expression is your goal, why not just set up a web page and thread it onto as many search engines as you can, and perhaps include a url in your .sig that points to it? Or join in one of the many unmoderated USENET newsgroups which deal with this sort of communication by design? Again, you have clearly have good experience with Unix systems which the list would benefit from. But if you keep this ranting up, everyone will just start to filter you out. -dq

24 years, 1 month

4
4
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[CCTALK] cctalk list (CHANGES)

by DAW＠yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu

> From: Doc > > On Fri, 17 May 2002, Jay West wrote: > > <good stuff> > > > > Regards, > > > > Jay West > > Did anyone actually say "Thanks" yet? This is the smoothest list > transition I've ever been through. > > Thanks! > > Doc > I've said it before, and I'll say it again, a standing ovation for Jay... -- --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 Mac OS X 10.1 - Darwin Kernel Version 5 Running since 01/22/2002 without a crash

24 years, 1 month

1
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[CCTALK] [CCTECH] List problems?

by DAW＠yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu

Hello? Is there anybody out there? Traffic from this list completely and suddenly stopped... Seems odd, considering the way some of the threads were going... -- --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 Mac OS X 10.1 - Darwin Kernel Version 5 Running since 01/22/2002 without a crash _______________________________________________ cctech mailing list cctech(a)classiccmp.org http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctech

24 years, 1 month

1
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[CCTALK] SGI / DEC Flirtation with NT/mips alpha

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Raymond Moyers [mailto:rmoyers@nop.org] > Dec has out in the field a bare few of these NT running > alphas that for reasons im not certain of cannot run Unix > ( something to do with the firmware ? other differences ? > thats my understanding anyway) On some systems, it was, indeed, only firmware. The reason that VMS, or OSF/1 didn't work on these varies, though, from "just firmware" to "we did something strange with the design of this one." Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

24 years, 1 month

1
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[CCTALK] Good Trip/Score Dec Rainbow, preformatted media

by mtapley＠swri.edu

>From: Raymond Moyers <rmoyers(a)nop.org>: .... >> Thanks to Alex W. I picked up a Dec Rainbow+ w/color card and a DEC >> VR240 and a DEC printer > > Isnt that one of those machines that need preformatted media ? > > Im not very knowlegable about VAX variants but i read about > a certain small vax 2000? prized for its ability to prepare > hard disks (flaw map/disk label) for the larger vaxen that > lacked the ability to do it themselves. Rainbow *can* format its own floppies. There is a similar DEC machine (Pro? Decmate? Help, somebody?) that cannot, and some Rainbows make their living as formatters for people that own the other machine. I don't know whether there's an analogous situation for VAX 2000, etc. The inability to format own media *is* a major and needless PITA, one of DEC's crummier decisions, IMO. - Mark

24 years, 1 month

1
0
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[CCTALK] Re: Tax Software Wanted

by appleone＠mac.com

Gene, I have the last 3 years of TaxCut for the Macintosh. Tell him to make an offer if he is interested. Thanks, Steve --

24 years, 1 month

1
0
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[CCTALK] Re: [CCTECH] Keycap cleaning strategy

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On May 15, 16:29, Tothwolf wrote: > On Wed, 15 May 2002, Pete Turnbull wrote: > > If I'm *really* lazy, I tie them up in a pillowcase and put them in > > the (clothes) washing machine, and follow up with the tumble drier. > > That would likely be a bad idea, since the keys would scratch against each > other. Worst case, all of the lettering would be removed, and best case > would be a few scratches and dings. They don't scratch. And no reasonable keyboard has the lettering put on in such a way that it would rub off in a washing machine. If that were the case, the legending would rub off in normal use. Nearly all decent keys are two-part moulded. If that were the case, the legending would rub off in normal use. The pillowcase/washing machine is a tried and tested method, and I've heard of lots of people who've used it (I didn't invent it, though I can't remember who first told me about it). > > No.1 tip: make a note of the layout before you take the keycaps off. > > It all looks very logical until you actually try to put *every one* of > > the symbol keys back in the right place. > > Or take a digital photo of the keyboard, or make sure you have an exact > duplicate keyboard. Grid/graph paper can be very helpful when writing down > a layout too. Better still, yes. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

24 years, 1 month

2
1
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[CCTALK] Good Trip / good Score

by Robert_Feldman＠jdedwards.com

I have a copy of the SunDisk Flash RAM card driver for the 3000 (and for the HP95LX), as well as SunDisk card FDISK and FORMAT programs. If anyone wants them, email me off-list at robert_feldman(at)jdedwards(dot)com. -----Original Message----- From: Lawrence Walker [mailto:lgwalker@mts.net] Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2002 9:11 PM To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org Subject: [CCTALK] Good Trip / good Score <snip> A SHARP PC 3000. After cleaning out the battery compartment and using new batteries it worked. DOS 3.1 w/a pcmcia card whose Li. battery is surely dead as is the notepad's. And many non-computer items. The Sharp 3k is a neat little 8088 handheld about the size of an Atari Portfolio. Sharp brought it out after high sales of it's Poqet but retreated when some of the heavier-duty co's. attacked that market Based on the numerous site info it's a great machine related somehow to the HP95. At least it can use the HP PCMCIA's if I understood correctly.( IIUC) Anyone here a fan of this hand-held ?

24 years, 1 month

1
0
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[CCTALK] Subject Lines

by healyzh＠aracnet.com

> no, messages from cctech ARE making it to cctalk, I just saw a bunch go > through. They are the ones with dual list subjects... ie. [CCTALK] [CCTECH] > > Jay West Can the [CCTALK] & [CCTECH] be shortened to something that does't take up most of the the viewable subject line? I read most CLASSICCMP mail via 'elm' and I'm not seeing enough of the subject to get any idea what the message is about. Also, do we really need to see both on dual list messages? Zane

24 years, 1 month

5
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[CCTALK] ebay auction for Vax 6000-310

by fernande＠internet1.net

This isn't mine... if it were, I wouldn't be auctioning it :-) http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2024525025 Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA

24 years, 1 month

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[CCTALK] pitching stuff off rooftops

by mythtech＠mac.com

>We have had lots of fun pitching stuff into >a 30 yard dumpster when we had one delivered. But then you can't video tape its impact and edit it into slow motion among other things. >We did this on a Sunday morning, I recommend checking when your local >authorities are not available. It makes a lot of noise and can attract >attention. We have a private parking lot... and my sister is a cop on the local police department, and the PBA holds their meetings in our building. So even if the cops show up, they are likely to just hang out watch, and cheer us on. >It was >before we realized the potential toxic hazard we were unleashing. Humm.. hadn't thought about the health hazard. :-( >A heavy aluminum or steel chassis will make marks in both concrete or >asphalt. That's what I'm worried about. I guess I could remove the case to the monitors and verify that they are just plastic. But I just have this fear that I will chip the asphalt, and within a season there will be a nice pothole in the middle of the drive. -chris <http://www.mythtech.net>

24 years, 1 month

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[CCTALK] pitching stuff off rooftops

by Innfogra＠aol.com

In a message dated 5/16/02 1:19:28 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Gary.Messick(a)itt.com writes: > > ^^^^^^^^^ AAIIIIIEEE!!!! (How could you?) > It was not my choice, but my partner's. It was 1989, before I discovered the list. We couldn't find anyone to sell them to. They are very expensive to store for the next 10 or 20 years until they are valuable again. At that time I had no idea they would ever be valuable again. My partner was a scrapper and we had to move. Paxton Astoria, OR

24 years, 1 month

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[CCTALK] pitching stuff off rooftops

by Innfogra＠aol.com

In a message dated 5/16/02 12:22:30 PM Pacific Daylight Time, mythtech(a)mac.com writes: > (I am still a little leary to toss a monitor off the top of my office > building... I'm afraid I'll damage the asphalt... the landlord would kick > my ass if I did that. But it is only 2 stories so I am thinking about > it... I don't think a 14" monitor could build up enough energy to damage > the parking lot on a 30 foot drop... I just haven't gotten the guts up to > try it and find out) > The problem with throwing stuff off rooftops is containing the debris, which, with a monitor, is considerable. We have had lots of fun pitching stuff into a 30 yard dumpster when we had one delivered. The first time we were in a seven story warehouse with stuff on the 7th and 4th floors. A stereo system dropped from the seventh floor can literally jump out of the dumpster upon impact. This was the first we tried. Containment works better when there is a little debris in the bottom. The first few items jumped right out of the dumpster, bouncing off the metal bottom. Of course they shatter when hitting the bottom making a mess to clean up when they jumped into the street. We did this on a Sunday morning, I recommend checking when your local authorities are not available. It makes a lot of noise and can attract attention. In NW Portland Oregon no one came by. After cleaning the street up of the first items we moved to the 4th floor where we had 60 Wang Terminal tubes to dispose of. These did not jump out of the dumpster. The fall from the 4th floor was not as great. They made a great pop when they hit the dumpster. It was a noisy morning. The Wang 2200 tubes were over 10 years old so it fits the criteria of the list, not to mention this was also in 1989, more than 10 years ago. It was before we realized the potential toxic hazard we were unleashing. Another time we had to despool several pallets of spooled wire. We took them up to the roof and dropped the spools into the neighboring parking lot. If you dropped them just right the spool would come apart and the coil of wire would rise up about 6 or 8 feet off the ground. Did not damage the parking lot. Lots of fun for work. A heavy aluminum or steel chassis will make marks in both concrete or asphalt. Plastic shatters making a big mess. We preferred to restrain ourselves until we had a dumpster to toss things into. Properly contained it can be a lot of fun. Paxton Astoria, OR

24 years, 1 month

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[CCTALK] Re: scanners & circuit boards...

by acme_ent＠bellsouth.net

> From: Davison, Lee <Lee.Davison(a)merlincommunications.com> > You can't scratch glass with metal. What you can do is leave > a thin trace of metal on the glass. Not to doubt your word, but in my experience metal can scratch glass. The glass counter-tops in my shop are scratched (not marked) from customers putting circuit boards on them. Glen 0/0

24 years, 1 month

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[CCTALK] RE: scanners & circuit boards..

by dougq＠iglou.com

> > EPROMs don't have UV-opaque glass windows, they have > > UV-transparent quartz windows. So they can be erased, > > but not by casual exposure. > > Yes, but every flatbed scanner I've ever seen has a flat > piece of glass on top (which is optically between the lamp > and the object-being-scanned). I can't believe they used > any special glass that was even moderately transparent to > UV -- it would be expensive and pointless. But regardless, scanning would be causal exposure, and such exposure (even if that glass were UV transparent) would be unlikely to be able to hurt the EPROM. But the only boards with EPROMs I've ever seen that *didn't* have labels covering the windows were ones I did myself or ones where the label glue had dried up and the label fell off. FWIW, I usually use silver write-protect tabs or the black vinyl ones for this purpose; I'd only use white paper on stuff that shipped so I could write a version number on them. Dunno if the tabs are available anymore, but I think I still have a supply... -dq

24 years, 1 month

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[CCTALK] First SGI Workstations?

by torquil＠rockbridge.net

Heya, Does SGI have a timeline or anything up anywhere. I am wondering what the first SGI workstation was(R2000 right?). I know they made terminals before that, But i am just wondering about workstations. Thanks, Torquil MacCorkle III Lexington, Virginia

24 years, 1 month

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[CCTALK] Fw: VAX Hardware Anyone?

by rschaefe＠gcfn.org

Maybe someone will want to talk to this guy (not me) about his kit? Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: "Les Flodrowski" <les(a)uwo.ca> Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2002 04:09 PM Subject: VAX Hardware Anyone? > We have a dual VAX 4500a (4000-500a) cluster to dispose of. > > It consists of the following components: > > - 2 VAX 4500a systems clustered with the following storage arrays > - R400X DSSI Storage cabinet with 6 x DSSI 1.0GB - 1.6GB drives > - StorageWorks cabinet with 3 x 4.3GB SCSI drives > - TX87 DLT Tape drive > - TU81 Plus Magtape drive > - VAX 4500a system complete spare > > At this time we are simply trying to find out if there is > any interest in the community for these systems. If you are > interested, and would like to make a serious offer, please > contact me. > > BTW, we also have all media and documentation for VAX/VMS and > a number of related applications. > > --- > > Les Flodrowski, les(a)uwo.ca > Phone: 519 661 3595 > The University of Western Ontario > > >

24 years, 1 month

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[CCTALK] testing

by jwest＠classiccmp.org

Skipped content of type multipart/alternative

24 years, 1 month

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[CCTALK] RE: scanners & circuit boards..

by dougq＠iglou.com

>> I'd be more concerned with accidentally scratching the >> glass bed of the scanner due to sharp component leads. > > You can't scratch glass with metal. What you can do is leave > a thin trace of metal on the glass. Gewelers rouge will easily > remove this is nothing else will. >> >> I guess that there is a slight possibility of degrading the >> contents of an EPROM if its window isn'tcovered. > > Glass is opaque to UV so you won't erase EPROMs either. EPROMs don't have UV-opaque glass windows, they have UV-transparent quartz windows. So they can be erased, but not by casual exposure. Regards, -dq

24 years, 1 month

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[CCTALK] Re: Keycap cleaning strategy

by fmc＠reanimators.org

I do this sort of thing for Northgate Omnikey keyboards. Two paper towels, folded on the perf, to the left of the sink. One margarine dish in the sink. Fill margarine dish with hot water. Add a little dishwashing goop (I use Palmolive because it's there). Pull some key caps from the keyboard. Put the caps in the margarine dish and swirl them around. Let them soak, while you pull the next batch of key caps. Remove and scrub with a sponge one cap at a time, shaking the cap to remove any excess water before sitting it face down on the paper towels to dry. Repeat 'til done. You'll probably need to move the paper towels (before they get too covered with caps) and fold another set, maybe twice or three times to get through the keyboard. Be careful when pulling big caps, they usually have some supporting widgetry that can go flying when the cap pops off. While the caps are drying, you should take the keyboard the rest of the way apart to blow out any dust and detritus and scrub the casework (again, dishwashing goop and water, maybe stronger stuff if needed). Let it all dry before putting it back together. Once cleaned, I generally wrap a keyboard up in a 13 gallon kitchen garbage bag to keep it mostly free of dust and critters. Cables can be coiled up inside the bag too. (Yes, I have a supply of spares... I use these keyboards!) -Frank McConnell

24 years, 1 month

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[CCTALK] Re: [CCTECH] / JUNK FEST

by steven_j_robertson＠hotmail.com

> > I've seen a couple of cctech messages passed over to cctalk > >as well, so I've gotten two copies of those. I also sent a message > >just to cctech earlier and it errored out for moderator approval > >because the software complained about a blind cc: being addressed to > >cctalk, though there was none included on my end. > > I got one of those too. It also said that my message was rejected but it >wasn't. I sent Jay a note about it already. OK... Now I see what's happening. I received a rejected notice earlier because I have opted out of the CCTALK list. My posts will appear in CCTECH but, not in CCTALK and I'll get a rejected notice from CCTALK for each post. I can live with that. It's certainly better than all the noise I was getting previously. To keep the message on topic: I am still undecided about the Junk fest tomorrow in Orlando. I have a potential scheduling conflict and might have to pass.. See yas, SteveRob _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. _______________________________________________ cctech mailing list cctech(a)classiccmp.org http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctech

24 years, 1 month

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[CCTALK] EPROM Life... Was: scanners & circuit boards...

by dwightk.elvey＠amd.com

>From: "Corda Albert J DLVA" <CordaAJ(a)NSWC.NAVY.MIL> > >Now, I don't know the construction/nature of the tubes used >in scanners, but I myself would be wary of photocopying or >scanning a PC board with an unprotected (i.e. uncovered) EPROM >window face-down on the scanning surface. My reasoning is >as follows; > >Although a fluorescent tube in good condition shouldn't emit >much UV, one has to remember the way such a bulb functions. >The excited gas inside the tube emits almost entirely in the >UV spectrum. This is converted to the visible spectrum by the >phospor coating on the inside surface of the tube. Over time, >I have seen some of the coating flake off the inside of old >flourescent tubes, providing a bunch of small UV "windows". The fluorescent tubes used in offices usually have ordinary glass and in plastic fixtures. I would suspect that the 3 year period is rather pessimistic. Many scanners use halogen lamps. These produce quite a bit of UV. Infact, a bare halogen lamp can be used to erase EPROMs with a fan for cooling. It won't be fast but it will erase. The glass plate in a scanner still blocks much of the UV light that would cause damage. I wouldn't think that running it through a scanner would remove more than about a months worth of normal aging at most. Covering them is simple and makes good sense. Still, it is a good idea to store good data from EPROM's in a different form. I always make both a *.BIN file and a printout of any of the EPROM's and most of the ROM's that are in my older equipment. Cosmic rays will eventually erase any EPROM is leakage doesn't do it first. I have some 1702A's that were programmed over 20 years ago that are working fine ( around 1972, almost 30 years ). On a side note, ceramic packaged parts will also scratch glass. Dwight

24 years, 1 month

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[CCTALK] [CCTECH] scanners & circuit boards...

by dwightk.elvey＠amd.com

>From: Tothwolf <tothwolf(a)concentric.net> > >On Thu, 16 May 2002, Davison, Lee wrote: >> Tothwolf wrote: >> >> > I'd be more concerned with accidentally scratching the glass bed of >> > the scanner due to sharp component leads. >> >> You can't scratch glass with metal. What you can do is leave a thin >> trace of metal on the glass. Gewelers rouge will easily remove this is >> nothing else will. > >Are you sure? I've scratched glass with metal before, though not with a pc >board. Most component leads (excluding some of the newer resistors and >capacitors) are made of a tin plated copper or a copper alloy anyhow, so >it would seem that they would be less likely to damage something than say, >steel. > >Since we are talking about scratched glass, do you have any ideas on how >to remove scratches from the face of a CRT? Hi Jewelers rouge will remove scratches from glass. It does depend on the depth. The reason I know this is because I am also an amateur telescope maker and rouge is a common material used to polish glass. If the scratch is deep, you'll need to grind with something like 15 or 5 micron aluminum oxide. You'll note that both rouge and aluminum oxide are both oxides of common metals. These are harder than glass and can scratch glass under the right condition. Also, carbon steel wheels are used to scribe glass ( but this isn't scratching, it is fracturing so this doesn't count but the results look the same ). Contact me off group and I can help with your CRT problem. Dwight

24 years, 1 month

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[CCTALK] pitching stuff off rooftops

by Gary.Messick＠itt.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Innfogra(a)aol.com [mailto:Innfogra@aol.com] > Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2002 3:07 PM > To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org > Subject: [CCTALK] pitching stuff off rooftops > > <snip> > After cleaning the street up of the first items we moved to the 4th floor where we had 60 Wang > Terminal tubes to dispose of. These did not jump out of the dumpster. The fall from the 4th > floor was not as great. They made a great pop when they hit the dumpster. It was a noisy > morning. > > The Wang 2200 tubes were over 10 years old so it fits the criteria of the list, not to mention ^^^^^^^^^ AAIIIIIEEE!!!! (How could you?) > this was also in 1989, more than 10 years ago. It was before we realized the potential toxic > hazard we were unleashing. <snip> ************************************ If this email is not intended for you, or you are not responsible for the delivery of this message to the addressee, please note that this message may contain ITT Privileged/Proprietary Information. In such a case, you may not copy or deliver this message to anyone. You should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by reply email. Information contained in this message that does not relate to the business of ITT is neither endorsed by nor attributable to ITT. ************************************

24 years, 1 month

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[CCTALK] FW: DEC Cards and chassis available Toronto Canada...

by DAW＠yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu

***Found this during my daily perusal of select newsgroups... Reply directly to this guy. Subject: Cards and chassis available Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 02:03:18 GMT From: "Don" <nospam(a)for.me> Org: Shaw Residential Internet Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec I'm moving and I have to lose a bunch of DEC stuff before mid June. Come and get it and save it from the dump. It is in the Toronto Canada area. Mail me for further details. DEC stuff =========== * all counts are approximate, some parts are in rough shape, some do not work 12 BA Chassis DEC part 630QZ-AX 1 spare power supply for above 5 KOM chassis 1 set of binders RSX 11M version 3.1 1 Digital Microcomputers +Memories Handbook 1982 1 TU-56 dual tape drive and some tapes (it works) 1 quad height extender card (used to troubleshoot cards) 2 dual height extender card 9 MXV11 M8047 (ROM and 2 DL) 6 DZ KOM version 20 DZ (made by DEC) 1 dual height memory 2 quad high memory 4 RCC cards (custom part) 3 11/23 cpu 8 11/73 cpu 3 M9400 terminator + rom misc other Contact me at dgreer6146-at-shaw-dot-ca Don -- --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 Mac OS X 10.1 - Darwin Kernel Version 5 Running since 01/22/2002 without a crash

24 years, 1 month

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[CCTALK] [CCTECH] scanners & circuit boards...

by mythtech＠mac.com

>> There's a guy here who had one of those auto-glass repair places buff >> a bad scrape off his 21" Nokia. Yes, the tube, not the bezel. >> Personally, I think the person who did the work is certifiably (a) >> stupid (b) suicidal - take your pick. But they did a great job. > >If the damage wasn't very deep, I'd not be too worried about it. The >thickest part of a glass tube is the face, which could be anywhere from >1/4" to 1" thick. I don't know what kind of buffing equipment the guy used, but if it is like the stuff I have seen used to take scratches out of our fire trucks... I wouldn't be too worried about buffing a tube. The last one I TRIED to break, took a good dozen swings with the frame of a heavy rolling chair before it cracked... and even then, it just cracked. It took a few more hits before it actually gave out and collapsed. Next time I will whack one with a sledge hammer and see how many hits it takes to get to the center. (I am still a little leary to toss a monitor off the top of my office building... I'm afraid I'll damage the asphalt... the landlord would kick my ass if I did that. But it is only 2 stories so I am thinking about it... I don't think a 14" monitor could build up enough energy to damage the parking lot on a 30 foot drop... I just haven't gotten the guts up to try it and find out) -chris <http://www.mythtech.net>

24 years, 1 month

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[CCTALK] [CCTECH] scanners & circuit boards...

by Robert_Feldman＠jdedwards.com

Toothpaste is actually a good fine abrasive. I have heard it recommended before (for polishing scratches from the display panel of a Radio Shack Model 100). Another product is called "Mirror Glaze." The exhibit staff at the museum I worked at used it to buff small scratches from Plexiglas display cases. -----Original Message----- From: Tothwolf [mailto:tothwolf@concentric.net] Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2002 1:49 PM To: 'cctalk(a)classiccmp.org' Subject: RE: [CCTALK] [CCTECH] scanners & circuit boards... <snip> I've buffed out tiny scratches in the past with (of all things) toothpaste, but for the more visible but still minor scratches, I need to find something else. -Toth

24 years, 1 month

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[CCTALK] [CCTECH] scanners & circuit boards...

by Lee.Davison＠merlincommunications.com

I'd be more concerned with accidentally scratching the glass bed of the scanner due to sharp component leads. You can't scratch glass with metal. What you can do is leave a thin trace of metal on the glass. Gewelers rouge will easily remove this is nothing else will. I guess that there is a slight possibility of degrading the contents of an EPROM if its window isn'tcovered. Glass is opaque to UV so you won't erase EPROMs either. Lee. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- This email is intended only for the above named addressee(s). The information contained in this email may contain information which is confidential. The views expressed in this email are personal to the sender and do not in any way reflect the views of the company. If you have received this email and you are not a named addressee please delete it from your system and contact Merlin Communications International IT Department on +44 20 7344 5888. ________________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ________________________________________________________________________

24 years, 1 month

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[CCTALK] Re: Data I/O 212 EPROM programmer

by lgjean＠free.fr

Hi I have a DATA I/O 212 without software. You may help-me ? email to lgjean(a)free.fr (sorry for my pitiful english) Jean

24 years, 1 month

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[CCTALK] RE: scanners & circuit boards..

by dwightk.elvey＠amd.com

>From: "Douglas H. Quebbeman" <dougq(a)iglou.com> >>>> I'd be more concerned with accidentally scratching the >>> glass bed of the scanner due to sharp component leads. >> >> You can't scratch glass with metal. What you can do is leave >> a thin trace of metal on the glass. Gewelers rouge will easily >> remove this is nothing else will. This is not true. Try running your windshield wipers without the rubber. Although, it may be true that glass has a hardness greater than most metals, this doesn't mean it won't get scratched. The problem is that it also fractures easily ( sometimes at a microscopic level ). The tiny chips embed in the metal surface and that scratches the glass. This is a multiplying effect. Also, most oxides of metal are harder than glass. And lastly, the quartz windows of the EPROMs are harder than glass. >>> >>> I guess that there is a slight possibility of degrading the >>> contents of an EPROM if its window isn'tcovered. >> >> Glass is opaque to UV so you won't erase EPROMs either. > >EPROMs don't have UV-opaque glass windows, they have >UV-transparent quartz windows. So they can be erased, >but not by casual exposure. I think he was talking about the glass on the scanner. Dwight

24 years, 1 month

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[CCTALK] Annex Term Servers

by pat＠purdueriots.com

I've got an Encore Annex (first model), and Encore Annex Two sitting here that I'm wanting either to get rid of. If I don't get any 'bites', I'll probably pull the usefull chips and can the rest. I'm also going to the Dayton Hamvention thingee on Saturday. If anyone wants to meet me there to get one of these, let me know. If I don't here a reply by Saturday night, they'll probably end up in pieces. They both appear to work (I have no software for them...) the lights light up and the annex one (which has DE9P's so I can hook up a serial console easily) does its diagnostics ok. -- Pat

24 years, 1 month

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