- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

Sorry, three messages of the same :-(

by spedraja＠ono.com

Sorry, a mistake sending the message three times :-( Sergio

23 years, 8 months

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Conseil request about some systems I can obtain

by spedraja＠ono.com

Hello. Is possible (ONLY possible by now) that I could obtain these equipment: * 1 Serie/1 (little size serie) * 1 IBM RT (with BSC connection to...) * 1 IBM S/370 4361 with a couple of disks of 25 kilos, one 3279 console and one 3174 terminals controller * 1 PDP system (used for instrumentation controlling, unknown model yet) * 1 CP/M S-100 system (unknown model yet) * Software and Documentation All items are stopped from two years ago. Some of them are stored in a great general store of the company who wants get rid of them. With independence of the conservation state of all the stuff. What preventions must I have about the management of these computers ? My panic comes about a possible damage of the items in the moment of start up them. I should agree any comments. Thanks and Greetings. Sergio

23 years, 8 months

1
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History Channel - The Internet: Behind the Web

by Fred.van.Kempen＠microwalt.nl

> Yeah, even my wife enjoyed it! Sadly, we don't get it in Europe... *sigh* Anyone got a taped copy? > So, the IMPs they built would be the first network interface, > right? The precurser to the present-day NIC. Well, no.. IMP's connected a local(-ish) network to the remote (-ish) network, usually over a slow(-ish ;-) WAN link like a 56K switched circuit. You could see them as the first series of protocol-converting gateways, though. Werent they built by BBN, and based on PDP-11(/23's) with the Fuzzball software load image? --f

23 years, 8 months

5
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IN STYLE... THE SEX TRACKER! (fwd)

by foo＠siconic.com

Damn it! I'm getting spammed at this address. This is the third in about as many days. Did anyone else receive the above entitled spam? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *

23 years, 8 months

3
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It pays to clean up...

by mbg＠TheWorld.com

In cleaning out some closets (moving my collection to storage in order to prepare a condo for sale), I came across a bunch of things I had forgotten I had... A couple of RK05 drives An RK02 (diablo) drive backplane and front panel for 11/34 a couple of BA11-M boxes a couple of BA11-VA boxes my original spacewar control boxes (wired up to a DR11-C) which we used on a GT42 at WPI back in 1978 some MM11-DP core memory a battery backup unit (I think it said H755 or H775) a large cache of blank DEC 8" floppies, in the blue DEC floppy boxes. a couple of boxes of dual-high foundation cards for wiring your own devices, at least one specific unibus foundation module. and I can't remember all the rest... wheee... Megan

23 years, 8 months

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SunOS 4.1.4 Domestic Kit

by alex＠trdlnk.com

Hi! I'm new to this list and I was referred here by a gentleman from sunmanagers. I have been looking for a few software packages for some time now and most of these I was able to find from people on sunmanagers. However there are three pieces of software that I still haven't been able to find, perhaps somebody can help? SunOS 4.1.4 Domestic Kit, this is the encryption addon for SunOS 4.1.4. I already have the install media, so I only need the addon. SunPC 4.2, I have a SunPC card for my SPARC 5 running Solaris 2.6, but I have been looking high and low for the drivers... Can't seem to find them anywhere. FastEthernet 1.0, I have a BigMac (be) based SBus card for my SunOS 4.1.4 box and these drivers seem to be hard to find also. With the software CD there are drivers for SunOS 4.x and I am looking for these. If any of you have, or know somebody who has, any or all of these titles, I'd very much appreciate hearing from you. Sun doesn't feel like helping me out and I can understand that; It's just a little frustrating to have an _almost_ complete setup... =) Anyway, thanks to everybody on beforehand and I just wanted to say that what I've seen on this list so far, I think I'll enjoy it! =) -Alex

23 years, 8 months

2
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Morrow DiskJockey 2B

by classiccmp＠vintage-computer.com

I just received a Morrow DiskJockey 2D Mod B from Jim's Garage Sale (Thanks Jim!) and I had a couple of quick questions: There are two sets of switches on the board. What do those configure and what are the settings? There is a 2708 on the board labeled BV/2. Is this a disk BIOS or a boot loader? I'm hoping to use this in my Altair to drive a pair of 801s I've got in a Lobo chasis. (My next questions will revolve around how do I get CP/M to run, etc.) I've ordered a manual from Herb Johnson but I figured I'd ask the experts for a quicker answer. Thanks in advance! Erik S. Klein

23 years, 8 months

1
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My awesome find!!!

by djg＠drs-esg.com

>Hey all, >Yesterday I obtained a Documation card reader, 600cpm, for the total cost >of... *drumroll* $20! Anyone have docs? > It may not be useful but I have the Documation M200 card reader manual at http://www.pdp8.net/pdp8cgi/query_docs/view.pl?id=168 David Gesswein http://www.pdp8.net/ -- Run an old computer with blinkenlights.

23 years, 8 months

2
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decnet

by dittman＠dittman.net

> > I have a copy of Meridian's SuperLAT for Win9x/NT. They dropped > > the product and are no longer supporting or developing it. Too > > bad; it was helpful to have LAT to access LAT-based terminal > > servers. It doesn't seem to work with Win2K/XP. > Dunno about the legality of this, but: I do have Pathworks32 > which should work.. Which version? The version I have (V7.2) doesn't work with XP. The LAT driver doesn't work with Win2K, IIRC. > Personally, I use Reflection/X for terminal stuff, as it supports > both the serial ports and network connections, including LAT and > X11.. :) I use Reflection for X, too, and the LAT driver didn't work in Win2K. -- Eric Dittman dittman(a)dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/

23 years, 8 months

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decnet

by Fred.van.Kempen＠microwalt.nl

Eric, (and others) > I have a copy of Meridian's SuperLAT for Win9x/NT. They dropped > the product and are no longer supporting or developing it. Too > bad; it was helpful to have LAT to access LAT-based terminal > servers. It doesn't seem to work with Win2K/XP. Dunno about the legality of this, but: I do have Pathworks32 which should work.. Personally, I use Reflection/X for terminal stuff, as it supports both the serial ports and network connections, including LAT and X11.. :) --f

23 years, 8 months

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Favorite terminal

by dittman＠dittman.net

> > The LT320 is a third-party plasma terminal. There are MMJ and > > DB25 serial connectors, and LK201/401-compatible and AT-compatible > > keyboard connectors. I use an LK401 with mine. > > Jerome Fine replies: > > I presume the LK201 and the LK401 are plug compatible? Yes. > Also, what are the actual differences and why do you prefer > the LK401? I prefer the LK401 as it has the legs to raise the back built- in, and I have a couple of LK401 keyboards, and my LK201 died a while back. I'm sure there are pictures of the two on the web somewhere, but I'm not sure where. -- Eric Dittman dittman(a)dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/

23 years, 8 months

1
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Sun Sparc ID

by healyzh＠aracnet.com

> I can get matching monitors, but don't think there is a keyboard/mouse > available. I was wondering if you can power them up > w/o keyboard/mouse, just box and monitor to verify basic operation, > whether dead or alive. You should be able to just plug a Terminal into the serial port. Zane

23 years, 8 months

3
2
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decnet

by dittman＠dittman.net

> > I'm not sure what the legal issues are about Lat, though... I think > > it is owned (or is it only marketed) by Meridian, ltd. > I believe Meridian only marketed (and sublicensed) LAT from DEC, with > DEC being its owner. DEC did most of its internal LAT code development, > and Meridian did most of the 'external' versions, e.g. the stuff in > PC-LAT, Cisco IOS's LAT code, and probably most others, given the > cost of licensing it... twas cheaper to let them do it than to get > your own license and do it... :) I have a copy of Meridian's SuperLAT for Win9x/NT. They dropped the product and are no longer supporting or developing it. Too bad; it was helpful to have LAT to access LAT-based terminal servers. It doesn't seem to work with Win2K/XP. -- Eric Dittman dittman(a)dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/

23 years, 8 months

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decnet

by mbg＠TheWorld.com

>I believe Meridian only marketed (and sublicensed) LAT from DEC, with >DEC being its owner. DEC did most of its internal LAT code development, >and Meridian did most of the 'external' versions, e.g. the stuff in >PC-LAT, Cisco IOS's LAT code, and probably most others, given the >cost of licensing it... twas cheaper to let them do it than to get >your own license and do it... :) Makes sense... we still maintain the lat source for Tru64 unix... I actually had a track bug through there a few years ago... Megan

23 years, 8 months

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Semiconductor Cross Ref Help

by NAVIGATE87＠aol.com

Rich, Check the website www.aecsales.com, They have the exact parts you need by the original manufacturer. When at the parts search page be sure to check the box for "restrict search to items with exact prefix". They have been very helpful finding obsolete parts for me. Don

23 years, 8 months

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your RL02 problems

by uban＠ubanproductions.com

Tom Uban 308 Jefferson Street Valparaiso, IN 46383 At 04:03 PM 9/23/2002 -0500, you wrote: >On Mon, 23 Sep 2002, Tom Uban wrote: > > > Pat, > > > > How is your RL02 effort going? Are you done with my terminator yet? > >I haven't had much time to play with it lately. I'm pretty sure that it's >either a bad controller or drive. I'll try to get your terminator sent >back to you in the next couple days - could you send me your address again >so I don't have to go looking for it? > >Thanks. > >-- Pat

23 years, 8 months

2
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Park heads when moving Kaypro 10?

by Robert_Feldman＠jdedwards.com

I seem to remember that self-parking heads generally were not available on the 10MB drives of Kaypro 10 vintage, so I did a little Googling and came up with the following (http://www.atarimagazines.com/creative/v9n12/8_The_Kaypro_10_more_than_.php ) from CREATIVE COMPUTING VOL. 9, NO. 12 / DECEMBER 1983: "A very important command is included in the Kaypro 10 system software. SAFETY moves the read/write heads on the hard disk to the safe landing zone on the disk. This must be done before turning the power off or the surface of the hard disk may be damaged. The SAFETY command is invoked from the command mode in CP/M." Bob -----Original Message----- From: Don Maslin [mailto:donm@cts.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 5:37 PM To: classiccmp Subject: Re: Park heads when moving Kaypro 10? On Wed, 9 Oct 2002, Glen Goodwin wrote: > Hi -- > > Thanks to Don Maslin I'll soon have a set of reload diskettes for my Kaypro > 10, and I plan to bring it from home to my shop to do the reload. > > Is there a "park" or "ship" command I need to run before transporting the > unit, so as not to damage the hard drive? IIRC, it is built into the operating system and when the HD LED goes out, the heads have been parked. - don > TIA -- > > Glen > 0/0

23 years, 8 months

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decnet

by Fred.van.Kempen＠microwalt.nl

Megan wrote: [pay attention folks, I actually got the addressing right this time *grin*] > I'm not sure what the legal issues are about Lat, though... I think > it is owned (or is it only marketed) by Meridian, ltd. I believe Meridian only marketed (and sublicensed) LAT from DEC, with DEC being its owner. DEC did most of its internal LAT code development, and Meridian did most of the 'external' versions, e.g. the stuff in PC-LAT, Cisco IOS's LAT code, and probably most others, given the cost of licensing it... twas cheaper to let them do it than to get your own license and do it... :) (this from memory and various readings on the Net) --f

23 years, 8 months

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PDP-8/L troubleshooting (was Re: New acquisition, and question)

by mbg＠TheWorld.com

Okay, I've seen a picture of a PDP-8/L and the switches are correct. But someone went and replaced the front panel on it so it is dark lettering on a white background, with no company logo... Darn... Megan

23 years, 8 months

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New acquisition, and question

by mbg＠TheWorld.com

>It could be what's referred to as a MARS (Memory Address and Register >Status) panel. The only one of those I've ever seen was at our PDP8 FS >lab in Parker Street. It's a full-height rack panel (same height as the >8/E) with several rows of lights for PC/AC/MQ/etc. The front panel consists of the following EA MA INST o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o MB F E D WC CA B o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o Link AC Ion Par Prot Run o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o POWER | paddle switches SWITCH - - - - - The boards hang from the backplane (which is really grimey... can someone suggest how to clean it?) and are reachable from under the chassis: Front panel end ============================ M220 M220 M113 M111 M220 M220 M700 M700 M220 M220 M216 M115 M220 M220 M114 M310 M220 M220 M216 M310 M220 M220 M111 M310 M617 M617 M216 M310 M617 M617 M115 M160 M160 M160 M119 ---- M115 M216 M117 ---- M160 M111 M115 M113 M160 M113 M117 M111 M115 M119 M113 M310 ---- ---- M113 M310 fan ---- ---- ---- M216 side ---- ---- M360 M617 G020 G020 G221 G221 G020 G020 G221 G221 G020 G020 memory W025 W025 memory W025 W025 memory G228 G228 G221 G221 ---- G228 G221 G221 G624 G624 G228 G228 G624 G624 M102 ---- G624 G624 M623 M623 G785 G785 M115 M623 ---- ---- M660 M906 ---- ---- M660 M906 ---- ---- M707 M707 M516 ---- M706 M706 M516 ---- M452 20ma console connecter ---- ---- ---- ---- M111 ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ============================ fuses, power cord Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | email: gentry at zk3.dec.com (work) | | Unix Support Engineering Group | mbg at world.std.com (home) | | Hewlett Packard | (s/ at /@/) | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 (DEC '77-'98) | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

23 years, 8 months

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decnet

by mbg＠TheWorld.com

Unfortunately, I never had access to DECnet/Ultrix... that was done in a different group. I don't think it was ever updated for later versions of Ultrix. It may still just run, though. I think the last version of it was V4.2. I'm not sure what the legal issues are about Lat, though... I think it is owned (or is it only marketed) by Meridian, ltd. Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | email: gentry at zk3.dec.com (work) | | Unix Support Engineering Group | mbg at world.std.com (home) | | Hewlett Packard | (s/ at /@/) | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 (DEC '77-'98) | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

23 years, 8 months

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Software for Orion Unilab II??

by jd＠sourcecode.co.za

FYI: I have a lot of docs on Z-80 and some of the related hardware like the real-time-clock-thingy. I haven't searched the net to see if these are already readily availible or not. If they aren't availible on the 'net or incomplete I will gladly scan mine in if someone is interested. -----Original Message----- From: Rich Beaudry [mailto:r_beaudry@hotmail.com] Sent: 10 October 2002 04:41 To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org Subject: Software for Orion Unilab II?? Hello all, As part of a recent eBay win, I acquired an Orion Instruments Unilab II. I have cables/software for the Rockwell 65/11EAB, and am looking for cables/software for any other processor, especially the 1802, Z-80, 8080, 8088. If anyone has software available, and cabling diagrams, please let me know! I have complete docs available, as well as the software for the 65/11EAB... I'd also be willing to write out a cable diagram for the 65/11EAB. Thanks! Rich B. _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com

23 years, 8 months

1
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decnet

by Fred.van.Kempen＠microwalt.nl

*sigh* OK, sorry folks.. I'll give it up for t'nite and get some sleep, that might keep me from misdirecting even more email... (if anyone happens to HAVE the stuff mentioned, pse contact me off-list..) --fred (*bonk*bonk*bonk*)

23 years, 8 months

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decnet

by Fred.van.Kempen＠microwalt.nl

Megan, Yay, all the VAXen are now upstairs.. took a while, too :) I was playing with the DECserver 200.. works nicely, I have three "terminals" connected to it; a VT420 as "console", my Compaq AP400 workstation, and the serial port of the DEC VXT2000. The other ports are connected to the console ports of all the VAX and PDP11 machines... works like a charm. Also, I am able to open a DECterm LAT session to the services defined above (the console ports are all listed as LAT services). Question: do you have access to DECnet-for-Ultrix, or whatever provided Ultrix systems with LAT support? Cant find it, and it MUST be around somewhere, right? cheers, Fred

23 years, 8 months

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New acquisition, and question

by mbg＠TheWorld.com

>Well, the PDP8/e has 2 rows of lights (Address, Data) on the panel too... >Or is that not what you meant. I'm familiar with the 8/E, I have one (and a LAB-8/E, too). This has more rows of lights than an 8/E,F,M. I don't have it in front of me, but I'm sure it had like 4 rows of lights (like an 8/I,L) and no rotary switch. >What boards are in it (M-numbers, etc)? That would help identify it, I >think. Of course... that would be simple... <grin> That is my next step... Megan

23 years, 8 months

2
1
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New acquisition, and question

by mbg＠TheWorld.com

Just today I got ahold of: A front panel (just the silk-screened plastic) for a pdp-8/m A front panel (silk-screened plastic) for a pdp-12 a pdp-8/e backplane an asr-33 a pdp-8 of some sort in a 10.5" chassis. The reason I'm not sure which one it is is because the silk-screened front panel had been removed and replaced with a white-colored panel by an organization from which the prior owner had obtained the machine. It has the paddle-type switches like I've seen on pdp-8/e,f,m, but the address/data lights like on a pdp-8/i,l. Any thoughts, anyone? Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | email: gentry at zk3.dec.com (work) | | Unix Support Engineering Group | mbg at world.std.com (home) | | Hewlett Packard | (s/ at /@/) | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 (DEC '77-'98) | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

23 years, 8 months

2
1
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My awesome find!!!

by xds_sigma7＠hotmail.com

Hey all, Yesterday I obtained a Documation card reader, 600cpm, for the total cost of... *drumroll* $20! Anyone have docs? WOOOHOOO! Will J _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com

23 years, 8 months

3
2
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Park heads when moving Kaypro 10?

by dwightk.elvey＠amd.com

Hi There really isn't much danger if the machine isn't moved. The heads are really quite smooth and landing doesn't cause any significant issues. The problem happens because the back edge of the head is very sharp. If the surface back rotates, just a tiny amount, this back edge will dig into the surface. Some of the early drives had an issue because of motor cogging. This would cause the disk to back rotate a little on stopping. The early fix for this was to put a one way brake on the spindles. Dwight >From: "Glen Goodwin" <acme_ent(a)bellsouth.net> > >Thanks, Bob. I've been using this system off and on for a couple of years, >and it never occurred to me that I had to park the heads before each >power-down. Apparently there hasn't been any damage as a result, but I'll >start doing it . . . > >Glen >0/0 > >> From: Feldman, Robert <Robert_Feldman(a)jdedwards.com> >> To: 'cctalk(a)classiccmp.org' >> Subject: RE: Park heads when moving Kaypro 10? >> Date: Thursday, October 10, 2002 12:33 PM >> >> I seem to remember that self-parking heads generally were not available >on >> the 10MB drives of Kaypro 10 vintage, so I did a little Googling and came >up >> with the following >> >(http://www.atarimagazines.com/creative/v9n12/8_The_Kaypro_10_more_than_.php > >> ) from CREATIVE COMPUTING VOL. 9, NO. 12 / DECEMBER 1983: >> >> "A very important command is included in the Kaypro 10 system software. >> SAFETY moves the read/write heads on the hard disk to the safe landing >zone >> on the disk. This must be done before turning the power off or the >surface >> of the hard disk may be damaged. The SAFETY command is invoked from the >> command mode in CP/M." >> >> Bob >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Don Maslin [mailto:donm@cts.com] >> Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 5:37 PM >> To: classiccmp >> Subject: Re: Park heads when moving Kaypro 10? >> >> >> >> >> On Wed, 9 Oct 2002, Glen Goodwin wrote: >> >> > Hi -- >> > >> > Thanks to Don Maslin I'll soon have a set of reload diskettes for my >> Kaypro >> > 10, and I plan to bring it from home to my shop to do the reload. >> > >> > Is there a "park" or "ship" command I need to run before transporting >the >> > unit, so as not to damage the hard drive? >> >> IIRC, it is built into the operating system and when the HD LED goes >> out, the heads have been parked. >> - don >> >> > TIA -- >> > >> > Glen >> > 0/0 >

23 years, 8 months

1
0
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Park heads when moving Kaypro 10?

by acme_ent＠bellsouth.net

Thanks, Bob. I've been using this system off and on for a couple of years, and it never occurred to me that I had to park the heads before each power-down. Apparently there hasn't been any damage as a result, but I'll start doing it . . . Glen 0/0 > From: Feldman, Robert <Robert_Feldman(a)jdedwards.com> > To: 'cctalk(a)classiccmp.org' > Subject: RE: Park heads when moving Kaypro 10? > Date: Thursday, October 10, 2002 12:33 PM > > I seem to remember that self-parking heads generally were not available on > the 10MB drives of Kaypro 10 vintage, so I did a little Googling and came up > with the following > (http://www.atarimagazines.com/creative/v9n12/8_The_Kaypro_10_more_than_.php > ) from CREATIVE COMPUTING VOL. 9, NO. 12 / DECEMBER 1983: > > "A very important command is included in the Kaypro 10 system software. > SAFETY moves the read/write heads on the hard disk to the safe landing zone > on the disk. This must be done before turning the power off or the surface > of the hard disk may be damaged. The SAFETY command is invoked from the > command mode in CP/M." > > Bob > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Don Maslin [mailto:donm@cts.com] > Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 5:37 PM > To: classiccmp > Subject: Re: Park heads when moving Kaypro 10? > > > > > On Wed, 9 Oct 2002, Glen Goodwin wrote: > > > Hi -- > > > > Thanks to Don Maslin I'll soon have a set of reload diskettes for my > Kaypro > > 10, and I plan to bring it from home to my shop to do the reload. > > > > Is there a "park" or "ship" command I need to run before transporting the > > unit, so as not to damage the hard drive? > > IIRC, it is built into the operating system and when the HD LED goes > out, the heads have been parked. > - don > > > TIA -- > > > > Glen > > 0/0

23 years, 8 months

1
0
0 0

Request from Intel's Museum

by dwightk.elvey＠amd.com

>From: "Ross Archer" <dogbert(a)mindless.com> > >Jerome H. Fine wrote: > >>>Jim Kearney wrote: >>> >>> >> >> >> >>>I just had an email exchange with someone at Intel's Museum >>>(http://www.intel.com/intel/intelis/museum/index.htm) >>> >>> >> >>Jerome Fine replies: >> >>I am not sure why the information is so blatant in its >>stupid attempt to ignore anything but Intel hardware >>as far a anything that even look like a CPU chip, but >>I guess it is an "Intel" museum. >> >>Of course, even now, Intel, in my opinion, is so far >>behind from a technical point of view that is is a sad >>comment just to read about the products that were >>way behind, and still are, the excellence of other >>products. No question that if the Pentium 4 had been >>produced 10 years ago, it would have been a major >>accomplishment. >> >Harsh! :) > >Guess it depends on what you mean by "far behind from a >technical point of view." > >If you mean that x86 is an ugly legacy architecture, with >not nearly enough registers, an instruction set which >doesn't fit any reasonable pipeline, that's ugly to decode >and not particularly orthogonal, that from purely technical >reasons ought to have died a timely death in 1990, >I'd have to agree. > >However, look at the performance. P4 is up near the >top of the tree with the best RISC CPUs, which have >the advantage of clean design and careful evolution. > >It surely takes a great deal of inspiration, creativity, >and engineering talent to take something as ill-suited >as the x86 architecture and get this kind of performance >out of it. IMHO. > >In other words, making x86 fast must be a lot like >getting Dumbo off the air. That ought to count as >some kind of technical achievement. :) ---snip--- It is all done with smoke and mirrors. We do the same here at AMD. The trick is to trade immediate execution for known execution. The x86 code is translated to run on a normal RISC engine. This means that the same tricks on a normal RISC engine would most likely only buy about a couple percent. It would only show up on the initial load of the local cache. Once that is done, there is really little difference. Choices of pipeline depth, out of order execution, multiple execution engines and such are just the fine tuning. Intel, like us is just closer to the fine edge of what the silicon process can do than anything tricky that people like MIPS don't know about. On a separate subject, I was very disappointed in the Intel Museum. I'd thought it might be a good place to research early software or early IC's. They have vary little to offer to someone looking into this level of stuff. Any local library has better references on this kind of stuff ( and that isn't saying much ). Dwight

23 years, 8 months

9
9
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What video monitor for SOL-20?

by bennyb＠ntplx.net

I've just acquired an old Processor Technology SOL-20, and wonder if anyone can advise on what video monitors are compatible with it (how about an old IBM monochrome monitor - hercules compatible?), and what the video connector on the back is (huge 1/2" dia. coax connector) - are the mating connectors still available? Second, I'm planning to use my PC sound card to record/playback in lieu of a tape recorder (more reliable, less hassle), and wonder if anyone has done the same with any success? Thanks, Ben

23 years, 8 months

8
11
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HP 9915A (industrial version of HP 85A)

by gil＠vauxelectronics.com

Hi folks: I am new to the classiccmp list. I am an EE, and collect teletype machines and HP test gear. My first computer was an RCA VIP 1802-based board. My second was an Apple II. I got to play with some bigger stuff when I worked at Cray Research a decade ago. But I digress. I have also been collecting HP 85 computer stuff (85A, 85B, 3"/5"/8" drives, roms, cards...), and I just got a 9915A, which is the industrial version of the HP 85A (cpu-only in a half-rack box). This 9915A does not have the tape drive (option 001), but has the operator interface card (opt 002), which provides connectors for keyboard (DB-25F), control (DB-15F), and video (BNC). The problem is, I have no keyboard, monitor, or documentation of any sort for the 9915. I have most of the useful 85 docs (short of the service manual), but nothing on the 9915. Judging from the number of pcb connections to the keyboard connector, I'd guess it uses a special parallel keyboard. I found reference to a 98155A keyboard in a post about a 9915B (85B-compatible), and I presume that is the same keyboard used with the A version. I hooked the video up to the composite input of a tv, and saw text and graphics when I ran the self-test from the front-panel buttons of the 9915. The image seemed wider than the screen, and I'm not sure if is just my tv adjustment, or if the video signal is not quite ntsc composite. As for the control connector, I have no idea what that might be used for. There is also a little board inside that has eight sockets, four of which are populated with 2732 eproms. I am wondering whether this is part of the cpu system, or if it is for embedded program storage like the programmable rom card for the 85. I presume that I can hook up a disk with an hp-ib card (and rom), so it should be usable once I find a keyboard and appropriate monitor. Anyone have any docs/info/tidbits/keyboard...? thanks, gil smith ;----------------------------------------------------------- ; vaux electronics, inc. 480-354-5556 ; http://www.vauxelectronics.com (fax: 480-354-5558) ;-----------------------------------------------------------

23 years, 8 months

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HP 9915A (industrial version of HP 85A)

by roosmcd＠dds.nl

> > I also have a HP 9915A in my possesion. Useless without keyboard and I also > >have only documentation for the HP-85. > > Maybe I should back up. You do know that the 9915 will read HP-85 tapes > and run the HP-85 programs don't you? The HP-85 is inteneded to be the > developement system for the 9915. Yes, but I also don't have a HP-85 and when I had a HP-85 I could run programs on that instead of the 9915 :). But it's not really an important matter; I just would like to use the 9915 sometime. > > This sounds like they are absolute unobtainium today? I'd better start > looking > >for a HP-85, only they seem to want quite some money when I see them on > >eBay :). > > Are you kidding? I've seen plenty of them go cheap. But you should really > look for a lot better machine like the 87XM. They have a lot more memory and > have a number of ROMs built-in. Take a look at <http://www.ebbsoft.com>. It > has some comparisions of the various models. Unobtainium was related to the development kit for eproms. As for HP-85's, I'm located in Europe and haven't seen them much around here. Last one I remember was on eBay.de and it went for quite some money (over EUR 100,-?), but I haven't really looked that hard. I know there's a friend looking for a cheap one for couple of years and I don't think he has already found one. But I got offered one by e-mail, so maybe I'll have one soon :). There's also an industrial surplus site that sometimes has them, but the last time I when they had one, it was already reserved for someone else. They did have some other nice industrial computers. greetings, Michiel

23 years, 8 months

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latest HP haul

by jwest＠classiccmp.org

Here's what came in my last acquisition of HP gear that I started to unpack today.... (2) HP 2113E cpu's in impeccably mint condition. They look refurbed (no dust at all). The have been tested and run diags perfectly. Each one has 512KW, DCPC, M.E.M., Mem Protect, and 2102E memory controllers One has loader roms: 264x terminal, 7970 magtape {YES!}, 79xx Disc, CS80 disc The other has loader roms: 264x terminal, 7970 magtape, 79xx Disc, and 7905/06/20/25 disc Here's the cards between the two... (2) 13037 disc subsystem interfaces (2) TBG (2) BACI 12966A (2) Line Printer 26099A (2) BUS I/O (5) GRD TRU IN/OUT and..... a 5060-6282 prototyping board! Other items in the racks... 13037D disc subsystem controller (this one is MINT!) 13037B disc subsystem controller 12979B I/O expansion chassis & PS (2) 7906D disc drives (both appear to be in extremely clean condition) (2) standard cream colored HP racks Much fun! Jay West

23 years, 8 months

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Foo, Bar, Bletch...

by vaxman＠earthlink.net

Anybody here know Steve Harris? Claims to have designed the first Commodore disk drive (1541?)

23 years, 8 months

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[maybe OT]: Removing pesky floppy disk labels

by mbg＠TheWorld.com

> Anyone want to share their secret? a piece of dry ice? My father used it to freeze the adhesive for the linoleum floor in our kitchen, and the old squares came right up... maybe it will work better than the cold from the air can... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | email: gentry at zk3.dec.com (work) | | Unix Support Engineering Group | mbg at world.std.com (home) | | Hewlett Packard | (s/ at /@/) | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 (DEC '77-'98) | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

23 years, 8 months

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Software for Orion Unilab II??

by r_beaudry＠hotmail.com

Hello all, As part of a recent eBay win, I acquired an Orion Instruments Unilab II. I have cables/software for the Rockwell 65/11EAB, and am looking for cables/software for any other processor, especially the 1802, Z-80, 8080, 8088. If anyone has software available, and cabling diagrams, please let me know! I have complete docs available, as well as the software for the 65/11EAB... I'd also be willing to write out a cable diagram for the 65/11EAB. Thanks! Rich B. _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com

23 years, 8 months

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Request from Intel's Museum

by dwightk.elvey＠amd.com

>From: "Ross Archer" <archer(a)topnow.com> > >"Dwight K. Elvey" wrote: >> >> >From: "Ross Archer" <dogbert(a)mindless.com> >> > >> >Jerome H. Fine wrote: >> > >> >>>Jim Kearney wrote: >> >>> >> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>>I just had an email exchange with someone at Intel's Museum >> >>>(http://www.intel.com/intel/intelis/museum/index.htm) >> >>> >> >>> >> >> >> >>Jerome Fine replies: >> >> >> >>I am not sure why the information is so blatant in its >> >>stupid attempt to ignore anything but Intel hardware >> >>as far a anything that even look like a CPU chip, but >> >>I guess it is an "Intel" museum. >> >> >> >>Of course, even now, Intel, in my opinion, is so far >> >>behind from a technical point of view that is is a sad >> >>comment just to read about the products that were >> >>way behind, and still are, the excellence of other >> >>products. No question that if the Pentium 4 had been >> >>produced 10 years ago, it would have been a major >> >>accomplishment. >> >> >> >Harsh! :) >> > >> >Guess it depends on what you mean by "far behind from a >> >technical point of view." >> > >> >If you mean that x86 is an ugly legacy architecture, with >> >not nearly enough registers, an instruction set which >> >doesn't fit any reasonable pipeline, that's ugly to decode >> >and not particularly orthogonal, that from purely technical >> >reasons ought to have died a timely death in 1990, >> >I'd have to agree. >> > >> >However, look at the performance. P4 is up near the >> >top of the tree with the best RISC CPUs, which have >> >the advantage of clean design and careful evolution. >> > >> >It surely takes a great deal of inspiration, creativity, >> >and engineering talent to take something as ill-suited >> >as the x86 architecture and get this kind of performance >> >out of it. IMHO. >> > >> >In other words, making x86 fast must be a lot like >> >getting Dumbo off the air. That ought to count as >> >some kind of technical achievement. :) >> >> ---snip--- >> >> It is all done with smoke and mirrors. > >Anything the results in a net faster CPU isn't, in my book, >akin to smoke and mirrors. > >If anyone's guilty of "smoke and mirrors", it's probably >Intel by making a ridiculous long (20-24 stage) pipeline >just to allow the wayupcrankinzee of clock rates so they can >be first CPU to X Ghz. Why not a 50 stage pipeline that hits >8 Ghz, nevermind the hideous branch-misprediction penalties >and exception overhead? > > >> We do the same >> here at AMD. The trick is to trade immediate execution >> for known execution. The x86 code is translated to run >> on a normal RISC engine. > >Yes, and this in and of itself must be rather tricky, no? >X86 instructions are variable-length, far from load/store, >have gobs of complexity in protected nonflat mode, etc. >I'd bet a significant portion of the Athlon or P4 is devoted >just to figuring out how to >translate/align/schedule/dispatch >such a mess with a RISC core under the hood. :) It doesn't take as much as one would think but it is a hit on speed and space. Still, the overall hit is really quite small. > >> This means that the same tricks >> on a normal RISC engine would most likely only buy about >> a couple percent. It would only show up on the initial >> load of the local cache. Once that is done, there is >> really little difference. >> Choices of pipeline depth, out of order execution, multiple >> execution engines and such are just the fine tuning. >> Intel, like us is just closer to the fine edge of what >> the silicon process can do than anything tricky that >> people like MIPS don't know about. > >Well, why isn't something elegant like Alpha, HP-PA, or MIPS >at the top of the performance tree then? (Or are they and >I'm >just not aware of the latest new products.) > >My pet theory is that the higher code density of x86 >vs. mainline RISC helps utilize the memory subsystem >more efficiently, or at least overtaxes it less often. >The decoding for RISC is a lot simpler, but >if the caching systems can't completely compensate for the >higher >memory bandwidth requirements, you're stalling more often or >limiting >the maximum internal CPU speed indirectly due to the >mismatch. >And decoding on-chip can go much faster than any sort of >external >memory these days. This is why the newer processor chips are really a memory chip with some processor attached, rather than a processor with some memory attached. We and Intel are turning into RAM makers. Memory bandwidth is on the increase but it isn't keeping up with chip speed. Still, I don't understand why many are not going to more efficient memory optimization than apparent execution speed. The compiler writers have a ways to go. The day is gone when pinhole optimization buys much. Keeping the process in on chip cache is really the important thing. There isn't an application out there that if one removed the large data array and image bit tables, couldn't completely fit in the caches that are being used today. The compilers just don't write code well enough to keep the size down. It is just that we've gotten into the poor choice of languages and poor connection of software writers to the actual machine code that is run. Just my opinion. Dwight > >This isn't really a discussion for classiccmp, but I >couldn't >resist since I'm sure at least some folks enjoy >speculationalism >on such topics. :) > > >> >> On a separate subject, I was very disappointed in the >> Intel Museum. I'd thought it might be a good place to >> research early software or early IC's. They have vary >> little to offer to someone looking into this level of >> stuff. Any local library has better references on this >> kind of stuff ( and that isn't saying much ). >> Dwight > >n >

23 years, 8 months

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Request from Intel's Museum

by fmc＠reanimators.org

"Dwight K. Elvey" <dwightk.elvey(a)amd.com> wrote: > Still, I don't understand why many are not going to more > efficient memory optimization than apparent execution speed. > The compiler writers have a ways to go. The day is gone > when pinhole optimization buys much. Keeping the process > in on chip cache is really the important thing. As someone who writes code that goes through compilers, the reason why I don't think too hard about the on-chip cache is because I have no idea about the size or architecture of that on-chip cache. Well, I have some idea, and that's that I can't count on it. OK, so the products I work on are sold as portable C source that is expected to build and run on a bunch of different processors, some of which don't have any cache but may be clocked slow enough for SRAM to keep up. I may not be the programmer you have in mind. So, let's take instead the case of someone writing code to run on Win32. Reading the side of a box for something newish like that, we could narrow it a bit further, to Win98, WinME, and Win2000 (hmm, maybe that's why this thing was in the closeouts pile, no WinXP). That could be running on anything made in the last four years, and what have x86 processor manufacturers done with on-chip caches in that time? Overall I suspect it's an upward trend but I'm thinking there were some local downturns for things like the early Celerons to keep them from competing too effectively with Pentium IIs, but as mentioned above I haven't really been paying attention. I am thinking that the programmer will probably not know even if he does want to think about writing code to fit in on-chip cache, and he's the compiler vendor's customer. How is the compiler vendor supposed to have any idea what the eventual target's on-chip cache will be like? -Frank McConnell

23 years, 8 months

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Park heads when moving Kaypro 10?

by acme_ent＠bellsouth.net

Hi -- Thanks to Don Maslin I'll soon have a set of reload diskettes for my Kaypro 10, and I plan to bring it from home to my shop to do the reload. Is there a "park" or "ship" command I need to run before transporting the unit, so as not to damage the hard drive? TIA -- Glen 0/0 If I am not for myself, then who will be for me? And if not now, when? -- Pirkei Avot

23 years, 8 months

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specs for Dysam 224/2A alignment disks?

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Oct 9, 8:57, Joe wrote: > Does anyone know the specs for these disks? Where the cat's eye pattern is located? How many sectors and tracks they have, etc etc? They don't have sectors and tracks in the usual sense. Track 16 (on a 48tpi drive; track 32 on a 96tpi drive) has a cat's-eyes pattern. Track 01 or track 34 (02 or 68 on 96tpi) has an index burst pattern (a burst of signal which is 200 microseconds after the index hole, assuming the speed is correct). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

23 years, 8 months

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Free HP 9920 in Arnhem, The Netherlands.

by hofmanwb＠worldonline.nl

Hi all, I would like to get rid of the following HP stuff: 2 ea HP 9920 but one powersupply is defective.Each has a number of memory modules. 2 ea 98203a keyboard 2 ea 98622a GPIO interface 2 ea 98204a video interface 2 ea 98626a rs232c interface 1 82913a monitor 2 ea 9021D dual HPIB floppy unit 2 ea 82906a HPIB printer NO software what so ever. The stuff is located in Arnhem, The Netherlands and not very light. Wim

23 years, 8 months

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[maybe OT]: Removing pesky floppy disk labels

by dwightk.elvey＠amd.com

>From: "Philip Pemberton" <philpem(a)dsl.pipex.com> > >Hi all, > OK, so here I am sitting at my computer with a stack of 100 or so disks >to reformat. Unfortunately most of said disks have been labelled using >felt-tip pen. And the labels are the nasty kind that don't come off without >a fight. Sooo... Has anyone got a method that will get these stupid things >off without leaving a gummy, sticky residue or damaging my disks? I've tried >WD40 (didn't work at all), 3-in-1 oil (don't ask), an upside down airblaster >(freeze spray for half the price) and a few other things and nothing works! > Anyone want to share their secret? GooGone Dwight

23 years, 8 months

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[maybe OT]: Removing pesky floppy disk labels

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Oct 9, 21:00, Philip Pemberton wrote: > Hi all, > OK, so here I am sitting at my computer with a stack of 100 or so disks > to reformat. Unfortunately most of said disks have been labelled using > felt-tip pen. And the labels are the nasty kind that don't come off without > a fight. Sooo... Has anyone got a method that will get these stupid things > off without leaving a gummy, sticky residue or damaging my disks? I've tried > WD40 (didn't work at all), 3-in-1 oil (don't ask), an upside down airblaster > (freeze spray for half the price) and a few other things and nothing works! > Anyone want to share their secret? Since you're in the UK, I'd suggest one of the aerosol label removers that CPC sell. They're quite effective. What I use, though, is white spirit (as used for cleaning brushes used for oil paint) or sub turps. Several drops on the label (make sure it covers the whole thing) and leave it for an hour or two, then it will probably peel off *slowly*. I've even used this to remove thirty-year old labels >from the covers of ex-library books, but for really stubborn labels like that, usually I put on enough to make the label look slighly wet, cover it with a piece of kitchen paper soaked in white spirit (to prevent it all evaporating too quickly) and leave it for 24 hours. Any residue can be removed with kitchen paper or a rag moistened in white spirit, then followed with a dry paper to remove the rest. If it was on something absorbent (like a book cover) let it dry thoroughly for a day or two after that. If the label mostly comes off, but leaves a thin layer of paper, you can probably scrape that off with a fingernail and remove the rest of the goo with sellotape and perseverance. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

23 years, 8 months

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[maybe OT]: Removing pesky floppy disk labels

by cb＠mythtech.net

> OK, so here I am sitting at my computer with a stack of 100 or so disks >to reformat. Unfortunately most of said disks have been labelled using >felt-tip pen. And the labels are the nasty kind that don't come off without >a fight. Sooo... Has anyone got a method that will get these stupid things >off without leaving a gummy, sticky residue or damaging my disks? I've tried >WD40 (didn't work at all), 3-in-1 oil (don't ask), an upside down airblaster >(freeze spray for half the price) and a few other things and nothing works! > Anyone want to share their secret? I use a two step method. #1 Avon Skin-So-Soft to remove the label. The oils in it will loosen the glue so you can remove the label without much effort. However, it leaves the glue itself behind, so in a few days when the skin so soft completely dries up, you will be left with a stack of floppies that stick to everything. So I do step #2: While the glue is loose, I use rubbing alcohol to remove the glue residue. Do this AFTER buffing off the excess skin so soft. Once you give it a scrub down with alcohol, the active glue will be removed, leaving you with a nice fresh (and ever so pleasent smelling) floppy disk. Or, if you plan to put a new label on right away, you can skip step #2, and just buff off the excess skin so soft, and apply a new label (however, I have had some problems with that in the past... the skin so soft gets into the plastic, and shortly after you apply the new label, you find it is falling off... that is why I do the two step process, and then leave them for a few days to fully dry). Although I have not had an issue with this... I would be cautious about getting the skin-so-soft onto the actual disk media... it just doesn't strike me as being that good for it (fortunatly, it isn't a very tough thing to control because it does have the consistance of WD40 or light weight machine oil, so it flows, but not so fast that you can't control it). -chris <http://www.mythtech.net>

23 years, 8 months

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10 years

by healyzh＠aracnet.com

> Would anyone object to adding an official 'cool factor clause' to the > 10-year rule? We already sorta have that now, where a newer computer (e.g. > mid-90s SGI MIPS) has sufficient cool factor that we're ok with it. All we > need is a concept of negative cool factor, so that some computers (e.g. > Packard Bell PC) might never be on-topic. > > In reality, this isn't any more ambiguous than what we already have. The > other option would be to develop some sort of unit for classicity and set a > threshold above which a machine is on-topic. > > Jeffrey Sharp I for one obviously don't have a problem with having an official 'cool factor clause'. After all, then my DEC PWS 433au running OpenVMS would be ontopic, as would systems such as BeBox's and the like. I think as a whole, systems that aren't x86 based, or Mac's that are less than 10 years old have been considered to have suffecient 'coolness factor'. Besides, about all that seems to cover is UNIX workstations, and OpenVMS systems. Also, I think 'custom built' x86 systems that have been specifically built to emulate older hardware, such as a PDP-10 are almost ontopic. Zane

23 years, 8 months

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manual(s) for Fluke 9010 Troubleshooter 8080 and 8085 pods?

by rigdonj＠cfl.rr.com

Does anyone have manuals for these two pods? I have both of them and they've suddenly gone bad and fail self-test. Both where previously tested good and were properly stored and never used. But last week I pulled one out to use it and the self-test showed it bad before it was even connected to the UUT. Today the same thing happened with another pod! I was using them on a 9010 mainframe that I got recently and I wonder if it somehow damaged them. I can't think of any other explaination. I did verify that they are bad using another mainframe. Does anyone have any ideas? Anyone have manuals for these? joe

23 years, 8 months

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specs for Dysam 224/2A alignment disks?

by rigdonj＠cfl.rr.com

Does anyone know the specs for these disks? Where the cat's eye pattern is located? How many sectors and tracks they have, etc etc? Joe

23 years, 8 months

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HP 9915A (industrial version of HP 85A)

by roosmcd＠dds.nl

Hello, I also have a HP 9915A in my possesion. Useless without keyboard and I also have only documentation for the HP-85. > >There is also a little board inside that has eight sockets, four of which > >are populated with 2732 eproms. I am wondering whether this is part of > the > >cpu system, or if it is for embedded program storage like the programmable > >rom card for the 85. > > The later. There were software developement kits available that let you > write programs in assembler and burn them into EPROMs that plugged into a > HP-85 type plug-in cartridges (called a Hybrid ROM or something like that) or > directly into the 9915. The EPROMs that are in it are probably Matrix and/or > I/O ROM IIRC. That seems to be standard in the 9915s that I'm aware of. This sounds like they are absolute unobtainium today? I'd better start looking for a HP-85, only they seem to want quite some money when I see them on eBay :). > FYI The 9915 doesn't use the HP-85 custom hybrid processor but uses an > Intel CPU instead! However it does use the HP-85 keyboard processor but only > for the timers that it contains. Are you sure? I must take a look at my machine then.. What kind of processor is in there? > >I presume that I can hook up a disk with an hp-ib card (and rom), so it > >should be usable once I find a keyboard and appropriate monitor. > > Correct. With the keyboard and monitor it should act exactly like a HP-85 > (except your's doesn't have the tape drive). But it's a lot easier to find a > HP 85, 86 or 87. I've always assumed you can't hook up a disk since there is are no disk routines in ROM? greetings, Michiel

23 years, 8 months

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Interpro 125

by roosmcd＠dds.nl

Hello, Some time ago I got a couple of Intergraph Clipper machines. The 2000's are running great now (I even bought extra memory of eBay :), but I'm still having some troubles with my Interpro 125. When I got it, it was without a hard drive. So I put in a scsi drive and tried to restore the OS with the boot floppies. There is a set of 5 floppies and a program in the ROM that asks for DISK 1 trhough 5 for restoring CLIX. This program runs fine, however about halfway (sometimes I got up to disk 4) a 'screensaver' (the sliding intergraph) kicks in and I'm back to the boot-up screen. I've tried turning off the screensaver in the prom, but it still happens :(. Does anyone have an idea what to do or the cause of what is happening? I've tried tapping keys and moving the mouse, but this doesn't seem to help.. greetings, Michiel

23 years, 8 months

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