Surplus to requirements: SynOptics Lattishub 2813. This is a managed
10baseT hub, with 16 x 10baseT ports, modem port (for remote management),
RS232 port (local management), and an AUI port. Cosmetically good, in
perfect working order, and I even have the manual, but I've replaced it
with some fancy black ATM/100baseTX kit. Free to collect from York, or pay
carriage (not too expensive; it weighs about 3.5kg).
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Network Manager
University of York
On Dec 16, 21:52, pete wrote:
> and the female "pins", does on the cable from to the PDP-8/E's Berg
^^^^ "goes" ^^ no, "from" was
sufficient
See, I'm getting so excited about finally connecting all this together, I
can't even manage basic spelling and grammar ;-)
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Network Manager
University of York
>From: Joe <rigdonj(a)cfl.rr.com>
>
>At 08:26 PM 12/14/02 -0800, you wrote:
>>I was trying to get some information on this old B1702A chip. I know
>>it is a 256x8 chip but someone told me that "B" marked chips are
>>normally gray with tin leads.
>
> I was wondering about the "B" markings. I was sorting a bunch of
surplus chips a few days ago including a big pile of 2716s and I found one
marked "B 2716". (The complete markings are "i B2716 023D3-V (c) INTEL
'77") It has a large square window of frosted material and the window is
rasied above the IC surface. All the D 2716s have smaller round clear
windows that are flush with the IC surface. The B part and most of the D
parts all have tinned leads and gray bodies.
>
>>
>>This one is white ceramic with gold leads. I tried finding something
>>on this but have not found this particular marking and colors.
>>Anyone know the skinny?
>>
>>http://www.msdsite.com/temp/1702a2.jpg
>
>
>>http://www.msdsite.com/temp/1702a.jpg
>
> I looked at this picture and saw the "1602" die marking. The Intel 1602
was a PROM and not an EPROM and other than being non-eraseable was
completely compatible with the 1702. I suppose they used the same die but in
different packaging. I'm guessing that your 1702 is an early one. I just
sold a 1602 to a collector, I think it was the only one that I had ever
seen.
>
Hi
I have either a 1702 or may it is a 1701, non-A, someplace.
There were not many of these made.
Most all of the early 1702's were put into the gold lead
with the clear quartz windows, glued on. It wasn't until
later that they started to use the frosted glass and then
later still when they used the monolithic ceramic/quarts
that had the clear( but distorted ) window.
Dwight
Got the following:
1. Another joystick for the Micro Genius IQ150 Perfect console. ($3)
2. Radio Shack TRS-80 Pocket Computer Cat no. 26-3501, not tested yet. ($2)
3. OT: iMac no KB or mouse with it but it's a 400 MHZ/521k LC/128MBRam/13gig
HD/DVD/2 Firewire/ pretty clear blue see-thru color. ($15) model M5521
4. Sega Genesis 32X game unit. ($5)
5. About 8 different mice and 12 mousepads for the collection. (Free to 99
cents)
J.C.Wren wrote:
> ...< a lot of soldering wisdom, then>...
> Probably nobody has really read this far, and I can't think of anything
>else at the moment, and my fingers are tired.
Twice. Then saved it for good measure. Thanks! I'll start saving for a Metcal.
- Mark
On Sun, 15 Dec 2002 ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote:
> > On Thu, 12 Dec 2002 ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote:
> >
> >
> > > > Huh? No. Actually, the data track itself is used as the servo signal. The
> > > > head centers in on the track by centering on where the amplitude is
> > > > strongest.
> > >
> > > Do you have any evidence for that?
> >
> > Yup. I quote:
> > "1.3.3.2 Sector Format - As shown in Figure 1-3, each sector contains:
>
> OK, let me quote the RL01/RL02 Disk Drive Technical Manual.
[...]
Seems like you had the better manual at hand. I'll check it out tomorrow,
when I'll pass by where I have that manual.
> > * Servo information for head positioning
>
> Sure, I'll agree the servo bursts are in the sector header. They are just
> not radially aligned with the data track. I guess you're working from a
> manual that oversimplifies things.
RL01/RL02 Disk Subsystem User's Guide.
> > Eh. This is on most controller not something you check or take care about
> > in software, but hardware. When you specify to the controller (for
> > instance en RK11) that you want track 10, it both figures out how many
> > tracks the heads need to move, and in which direction. It then checks that
> > you really are at the right track, otherwise you get an error back.
>
> I am _darn_ sure the seek function on an RK11 doesn't check sector
> headers (I would have to actually dig out the prints to be sure). I know
> I've used it to move heads around on the alignment pack, which doesn't
> have convnetionally recorded headers. Quite apart from the fact that an
> RK05/RK11 can seek on a blank disk so as to be able to format it (a blank
> RK05 pack really is blank).
We must have been talking past each other here. I didn't mean that the
controller/drive made a check on the disk that it was on the right
track. The drive *knows* it's on the right track, without checking. Like
you said, the RK05 can seek on a blank disk, and format it.
> > The RL11 have no such sophistication. You request a head move, and the
> > drive hopefully does it, and then you can carry on with the next
>
> That's what most controllers do. The difference is that on the RK11, you
> specify the cylinder you want to move to, and the drive (hopefully) goes
> there. You then have to check headers. On the RL11, you have to work out
> how many cylinders to move and in which direction (That bit of the
> calculation is done automatically by the RK system).
No, on an RK11 (well, admittedly I've mostly played with the RK8E) you
really don't ever check the header yourself. In fact, you can actually
start the disk transfer even if you're not on the right track. The drive
will do an implicit seek as a part of the transfer for you. Also, track
switching can occur in the middle of the transfer, without you seeing or
caring about it. Not on the RL. You cannot even switch heads in the middle
of a transfer.
> > information is constantly checked by the controller, it should be
>
> Eh, if you're making your own controller, you don't need to check the
> headers...
True. But noone said we were going to build our own controller until
now. :-)
> > Basically, if you don't have the servo information correct on the platter,
> > the drive will signal errors to the controller, and the controller which
> > just miserably fail unless header infomration keep coming in when the
> > drive is running.
>
> Ifyou don't have the correct servo information, the drive won't keep the
> heads loaded (well, it certainly won't keep them on-track). At this
> point, no controller could do anything useful with the drive.
Unless you have a drive without servo information, such as the RK05.
Johnny
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt(a)update.uu.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
Thanks for putting up with my earlier ad. All the VAXen equipment I posted about has been claimed.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy,
Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com
ARS KC7GR (Formerly WD6EOS) since 12-77 -- kyrrin(a)bluefeathertech.com
"I'll get a life when someone demonstrates that it would be superior
to what I have now..." (Taki Kogoma, aka Gym Z. Quirk)
>It's always 'Deck' round here, at least amongst hackers. DEC employees
>pronounced it 'Digital' and tended to get annoyed when I refered to the
>company as 'Deck'.
You obviously met the wrong employees :-)
>Unfortunately I don't know (remember) which version was used
>to create the disk image... it was done about 8-10 years ago.
If you have access to OpenVMS, you can run BACKUP/ANA
to produce a whole bunch of extra information about
what is in there.
Antonio
LOCAL PICKUP ONLY -- SHIPPING NOT AVAILABLE DUE TO SIZE/WEIGHT
----
Fellow Classiccomp'ers and VAXen-lovers,
I need to make room. I've got three MicroVAXen in great shape that I want to get out of here. One is a MicroVAX 3 in the BA123 (end table) cabinet with 32MB RAM. I've SCSI-fied it with a Sigma RQD11S card. Said card will handle both disk and tape drives. In fact, this particular machine already has NetBSD (don't remember which version) loaded.
Second machine: VAX 4000-200 in the skinny tower cabinet. This one also works well, though I don't remember how much memory it has. It had a CMD CQD220 SCSI card in it which has been transferred (by me) to Machine #3, which is...
A VAX 4000-400 in the 'wide' tower cabinet. Also works well, and I think it's got either 48 or 64 megs RAM.
ALSO INCLUDED: MicroVAX hardware service manuals, whatever spare DEC'ish boards I have left, etc.
Here's the deal; I'm located in Kent, WA (southeast of Seattle by about 35 minutes). I don't have the facilities to palletize this stuff or get it shipped, so we're doing LOCAL PICKUP ONLY.
Because of the SCSI cards, and the fact that there's lots of extras. I'm going to ask a price of $150.00 or best offer for the whole works. YOU PICK UP -- SHIPPING NOT AVAILABLE.
You can contact me via E-mail at the human-readable address in my signature block. If your reply bounces, use my backup address of kc7gr (a/t) qsl dot net.
Thanks much.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy,
Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com
ARS KC7GR (Formerly WD6EOS) since 12-77 -- kyrrin(a)bluefeathertech.com
"I'll get a life when someone demonstrates that it would be superior
to what I have now..." (Taki Kogoma, aka Gym Z. Quirk)
I have N* software on floppies plus a bunch of hard-sectored 5.25"
floppies... Interested?
Will J
_________________________________________________________________
The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE*
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
On Dec 14, 21:40, Merle K. Peirce wrote:
>
> I have arrived. I was just spammed by Ron Popeil.
:-) But did you buy <whatever it was>?
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Network Manager
University of York
Megan,
I'll take it off-list..
--f
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Megan [mailto:mbg@TheWorld.com]
> Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2002 3:00 PM
> To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org
> Subject: RE: Looking for pointers to specs...
>
>
> >Which version of VMSbackup are you using to read the tape?
>
> Unfortunately I don't know (remember) which version was used
> to create the disk image... it was done about 8-10 years ago.
>
> Megan Gentry
> Former RT-11 Developer
>
> +--------------------------------+----------------------------
> ---------+
> | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | email: mbg at
> world.std.com |
> | |
> |
> | "this space | (s/ at /@/)
> |
> | unavoidably left blank" | URL:
> http://world.std.com/~mbg/ |
> | | "pdp-11 programmer - some
> assembler |
> | (DEC '77-'98) | required." - mbg
> KB1FCA |
> +--------------------------------+----------------------------
> ---------+
>
>Which version of VMSbackup are you using to read the tape?
Unfortunately I don't know (remember) which version was used
to create the disk image... it was done about 8-10 years ago.
Megan Gentry
Former RT-11 Developer
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | email: mbg at world.std.com |
| | |
| "this space | (s/ at /@/) |
| unavoidably left blank" | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ |
| | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler |
| (DEC '77-'98) | required." - mbg KB1FCA |
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
On Dec 15, 13:48, Fred N. van Kempen wrote:
> Oh- and the real fun thing is: both one of the current UPS'es, and the
new
> ones, have ethernet SNMP monitoring.. I can actually ping my UPS:
> which is truly fun :)
Yes, it is. Our "big" UPS (30kVA, 3-phase, for 30 minutes) has that via an
external box, and our "little" UPSs have it built in (USHA cards). And I
get to play^Wlook after them (well, it's a network device, right?) There's
a standard MIB for UPSs with all sorts of useful things in it. Anyone who
has a serial-only UPS should be able to rig something up with the NUT
(Network UPS Tools) software: http://www.exploits.org/nut/ or by using
something like a Sinetica NetCom box: http://www.sinetica.co.uk/ Every
home should have one ;-)
My main server at home is now on an APC UPS. It didn't used to be, because
it had quite a long uptime when I got that particular UPS, and I didn't
want to spoil that. I was waiting to see it roll past the magic 10000
hours (about 416 days; and no, it's not a PC) to switch it over -- and the
day before that, we had a power cut :-(
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Network Manager
University of York
Can anyone point me to a description of the file format for a
VMS backup file? I need to be able to read one on a unix (linux)
system, but 'vmsbackup' doesn't recognize the contents of one of
the vbn's and ends up core-dumping...
(alternatively, is there a version of vmsbackup or something which
can read full vms backups)
Megan Gentry
Former RT-11 Developer
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | email: mbg at world.std.com |
| | |
| "this space | (s/ at /@/) |
| unavoidably left blank" | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ |
| | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler |
| (DEC '77-'98) | required." - mbg KB1FCA |
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
> Any reasonable UPS will be heavy, because big batteries are heavy :-)
Yes. Although my machine room currently runs on two 2400VA boxes, (note:
we use 220VAC here, not 110..), they will soon be replaced by two new
systems that do 3000VA each, with a 500VAC feed. The fun part is, that
they have modular run time by adding battery boxes ("stack em up!"), AND
(what I just learned half an hour ago! %-] they have a provision for
connecting an external generator. Which I have. :)
(OKOK... legally I am not allowed to run that thing for extended periods
of time, but I _do_ have permission to have it fired up for emergency
purposes, soo... hey! ;-)
I guess I'll spend the week between xmas and new year's rewiring, and doing
power measurements on the circuits....
Oh- and the real fun thing is: both one of the current UPS'es, and the new
ones, have ethernet SNMP monitoring.. I can actually ping my UPS:
H:\>ping ups
Pinging ups0.microwalt.nl [10.0.95.7] with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 10.0.95.7: bytes=32 time=10ms TTL=255
Reply from 10.0.95.7: bytes=32 time=10ms TTL=255
Reply from 10.0.95.7: bytes=32 time=10ms TTL=255
Reply from 10.0.95.7: bytes=32 time=10ms TTL=255
Ping statistics for 10.0.95.7:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 10ms, Maximum = 10ms, Average = 10ms
H:\>
which is truly fun :)
--fred
Hi,
Regarding the being able to work around expensive studios to produce
music: yes. I know a (computer-audio-) guy who spent EUR 50K on a
bunch of digital "studio" audio equipment (mixing, levellers, edit
workbench, etc) and computers for work and storage (I did that part
for them), and he then teamed up with an "analog" audio guy who set
up the "analog" part of their setup (mikes, recording room, whatnot.)
They now make a good living doing recordings and mastering sessions
for artists in Holland and Belgium- both starting ones __and__ some
known ones. They recently asked me to again help them with setting
up a digital music distribution and delivery system, as their
"customers" (artists) asked them to also act as their "record
company" using New Media. When they have done the legal legwork,
I'll be building an online record store for them, with an almost
direct link to the studio.
So... yes. It can be done, and it can work well. The traditional
companies in that field are scared shitless, because THEY HAVE NO CLUE
as to what's hitting them.
Youth today _really_ doesn't care [anymore] about 101% [sic] pure audio
quality, they are _fine_ with 192Kbps MP3/Pro files which then can then
stuff onto a CD. I am, too, often. The proposed "album" price in the
"shop" above was EUR 8 to EUR 10 (about same for US$), and their short
investigation has shown that customers were OK with that, including the
fact that they had to download the stuff.
[Optionally, the "shop" will have a CD-R/DVD-R burning service, by the
way, for, I believe, EUR 2.5 plus shipping]
The latest rumor is, that a wellknown Dutch concert managing agency has
contacted them whether or not they would be able and willing to handle
_all_ their live recordings of gigs, including.. yes, the "shop".
Traditionally, "live albums" are sucked dry by studios and recording
companies- the artists get very little out of them. This "New Shop"
(hey, that sounds familiar.. hmm...) doesn't have to, so artists AND
fans benefit.
Again, dunno where this is going, as it's not there yet. I am a consultant,
so, advise on the technical issues. But, while busy doing that, I did
notice that the "other" guys were scared shitless _all_ the time, and
didn't know what to say _most_ of the time I was there...
The same most probably goes for the video/movie industry... dunno about
that world, but there, the "distribution channel" is even more powerful....
Cheers,
Fred
On Dec 14, 10:50, Sellam Ismail wrote:
> On Sat, 14 Dec 2002 pete(a)dunnington.u-net.com wrote:
>
> > I've decided that the "big" UPS which has been sitting in my workshop,
> > unused, for almost a year, really is surplus to requirements, so it's
free
> > to anyone *who can collect it* and feels like replacing the batteries.
> I also have a huge UPS. It's a Sola 5KVa unit. It has sat dormant in my
> data closet for years now. I never got around to buying new batteries
for
> it (too expensive and I don't know if the Sola unit itself has problems
as
> it was arcing at one point).
>
> Is it worth rehabilitating or should I finally just junk it? The bitch
is
> heavy (over 100lbs).
Any reasonable UPS will be heavy, because big batteries are heavy :-)
Whether it's worth doing anything with it depends on whether you need a
high-current or long-duration UPS. That one would allow you to boil the
kettle for a cup of tea (or run the coffeemaker) during those power outages
when there's nothing else you can do :-)
It's not that hard to come by second-hand UPSs, the usual fault being that
the batteries have gone bad (sulphated), and that's usually because people
don't cycle them properly. There's some evidence to suggest that --
providing they've not gone too far -- high current high-frequency pulses
can rejuvenate lead-acid batteries, and there are some circuits around
designed to provide the remedy. I built one, and it seems to work, so long
as the cells have *some* life left. Measure the voltage on each cell. If
it's below 1V, or the cell looks at all swollen or distorted, it's past
redemption.
http://www.shaka.com/~kalepa/desulf.htm
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Network Manager
University of York
In a message dated 12/14/02 8:29:58 PM Pacific Standard Time,
ipscone(a)msdsite.com writes:
> http://www.msdsite.com/temp/1702a.jpg
Well, the die on this one is clearly? marked "intel" with the early dropped
"e".
Is there anything stamped on the bottom of the chip, a date code or ?
I really don't know the variations but I would not be surprised to see a
white and gold version in any of intel's early chips. I am no help there.
Paxton
Astoria, OR
Who is digging out his microscope to look at his 1702s.
Which version of VMSbackup are you using to read the tape?
I seem to have several.. V3.0, 3.1, 3.1.1, 4.1, 4.1.1 and 4.2 ...
--f
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Megan [mailto:mbg@TheWorld.com]
> Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2002 6:58 AM
> To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org
> Subject: Looking for pointers to specs...
>
>
>
> Can anyone point me to a description of the file format for a
> VMS backup file? I need to be able to read one on a unix (linux)
> system, but 'vmsbackup' doesn't recognize the contents of one of
> the vbn's and ends up core-dumping...
>
> (alternatively, is there a version of vmsbackup or something which
> can read full vms backups)
>
> Megan Gentry
> Former RT-11 Developer
>
> +--------------------------------+----------------------------
> ---------+
> | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | email: mbg at
> world.std.com |
> | |
> |
> | "this space | (s/ at /@/)
> |
> | unavoidably left blank" | URL:
> http://world.std.com/~mbg/ |
> | | "pdp-11 programmer - some
> assembler |
> | (DEC '77-'98) | required." - mbg
> KB1FCA |
> +--------------------------------+----------------------------
> ---------+
>
>What I'm referring to is the recording industry claiming their sales have
>dropped. First of all, I want to see hard data to prove this. Second, I
>want this dat to be from an independent auditor. Lastly, I want an
>independent analyst to confirm whether this is because of rampant CD
>copying on college campuses or if it is as a result of the economy.
I can't link to the report, because I don't recall where I saw it
(actually, I think I saw it in a local newspaper)... but there was one I
read recently that did site hard numbers to show that sales of CDs from
record stores have dropped over the last year (based on sales $$, they
didn't quote counts, so it could be from lowered prices, but since I
haven't noticed CD prices going lower, I doubt that). The numbers were of
course given by the RIAA, with no source quoted (so the assumption is it
is from their own internal book keeping).
However, the article also nicely pointed out, that the figures the RIAA
were quoting were specifically for sales from record stores (ie: Tower,
Sam Goody, places like that). When asked about sales from ONLINE stores
(like Amazon.com), the RIAA said they didn't have those figures
available. Nor did they have available the sales from recording industry
web sites that offer MP3 purchases or similar.
Since they were claiming sales of CDs were down only something like 8 or
9 million... I think it is pretty darn reasonable to say that those
missing dollars from store fronts could easily be accounted for from
online sales (and far more $$ I am sure).
This is the stuff you have to be VERY VERY careful to read between the
lines when looking at anyone's "facts and figures". You can distort this
kind of data into telling you anything you want it to say (I work in
Market Research... we are experts at distorting reality with numbers!)
-chris
<http://www.mythtech.net>
>You think the *public* has control over that? Yeah, yeah, people vote with
>their wallets, but before they do that the candidate CDs have to be made
>available for puchase. The record companies control that, and they also
>control the amount of promotion that a particular candidate gets.
>Promotional agencies like MTV play right into the herd mentality of pop
>music buyers, convincing a few that the herd is buying album X. Those few
>buy album X, and then the rest of the herd follows suit. Essentially people
>are *told* what to buy.
As much as it was a farce comedy, the movie Josie and the Pussycats shows
almost exactly what the RIAA/MPAA would love nothing more than to have
(and discount the subliminals, they are just about there already).
>Do you think that P2P is going to damage this control system?
Potentially. Right now, the public has no choice... if a studio doesn't
want to promote an artist (can we still call them that?), the public has
no access to their music. P2P removes the studio from the flow control.
It is now possible for a small garage band to record their own music...
AND get wide spread distribution via P2P sharing. Essentially, the need
for the recording studio at all is starting to disappear.
THAT is what scares the hell out of them, and THAT is the heart of all
their complaints and cries for new laws. They are doing nothing more than
trying to secure the need for their own existance (with the wonderful
side effect of being able to have total control over what we see and hear
at all times)
-chris
<http://www.mythtech.net>
This is a bit off-topic, because it's only a few years old.
I've decided that the "big" UPS which has been sitting in my workshop,
unused, for almost a year, really is surplus to requirements, so it's free
to anyone *who can collect it* and feels like replacing the batteries.
It's a Powerware Prestige 6000, with two battery boxes, software, manual,
and various cables. Input is rated 200/208/220/230/240V AC at 19A (power
factor 0.9) single phase, output is 200/208/220/230/240V AC at 19A (max
3000W). The battery boxes are each rated 120V DC 50A and 5AH capacity.
Size is about 40cm deep x 25cm wide x 28 cm high for the control box and
the battery boxes are half the height, so 40 x 25 x 14 each. They all
stack nicely together (in any sensible order).
I have used it, but the batteries (10 x 2V gel cells in each box) do need
replaced -- most will not hold any significant charge/voltage.
It needs to be gone by Christmas, too, or it's going in the skip.
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Network Manager
University of York
I managed to get a few fun things to play with this week - courtesy of
Purdue University Salvage/Surplus
** Finds **
Lear-Sigler AMD-3A+ **actually working** (compared to my ADM-5) $free
4 x Pioneer CD CDV LD Player CLD-2400 (LaserDisk player) $free
OT:
2 x SYMBIOS RAID arrays - 10 drives/controller, 2 controllers/array
with the 4GB narrow scsi drives in it, total of 144GB of RAID-5
pulled from an NCR Teradata (worldmark 5100M) system
2 x NCR Worldmark 5100M nodes with 4GB Ram, 32xPentium Pro 200MHz
processors each. Now, it's time to help with its Linux port -
doesn't quite boot yet. Features a pair of 32bit Microchannel
busses per node. Technically, I guess, it's still Purdue's, but
I get basically exclusive access to it (and free power/network).
I'm thinking about going back to grab a pair of marked 'BAD' ADM-5's from
there that might be useful for parts to repair my ADM-5.
** Cheap to a good home **
Assuming all the Laserdisk players all work - they just have a few
cosmetic scratches - I'm willing to part with two of them. First two
replies get them for $10 + shipping. If they don't all work (as far as I
can tell without owning a laserdisk - they should also play CDs) then I'll
be offering less of them I guess...
Pat
Lafayette, IN, USA
--
Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS
Information Technology at Purdue
Research Computing and Storage
http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu
On Dec 14, 0:37, Tony Duell wrote:
> > upset if people wrote "Disk" instead of "Disc"). As far as Acorn were
> > concerned, BASIC (even BBC BASIC) is "just another language".
>
> IIRC, BASIC is a somewhat odd language that doesn't implement one of the
> 'standard' entry points. But it is a language ROM.
Indeed, it has zeros in the service entry point which wouldn't be legal for
an ordinary language ROM, except that it is treated as a special case by
certain Acorn firmware, and that missing service entry is used in the first
stage of recognising which ROM is BASIC. It's unique in that regard.
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Network Manager
University of York
On Dec 13, 21:11, Tony Duell wrote:
> This reminds me of something that suprises me. Namely that the Model A
> missed out some fairly simple/cheap chips like the buffers for the 1MHz
> bus and/or Tube, the RS423 buffers (the rest of the serial I/O system was
> fitted on the A becuase it was needed for the cassette I/O), etc. I would
> have thought that the cost of fitting sockets and having 2 different
> boards in production would have exceeded the cost of these chips...
The idea was to keep the cost as low as possible while making it simple to
upgrade. At that time the sockets would have been much cheaper than the
chips. I don't know how the decision was made, nor by whom (though Acorn
was a fairly small comapany at that time), and it may have involved the
BBC.
> > I doubt if it's that simple. UK models don't use mylar ribbons, they
use a
> > single 17-way notched IDT cable with a 0.1" pitch, and with a
single-row
>
> Unless thr speech upgrade is fitted.
True, in which case there's an additional 10-way 0.1" pitch IDT cable on
the left of the keyboard.
> Very early Beebs had linear PSUs with 3 7805 regulators in them. One fed
> each of the +5V outputs. You (Joe) do not have one of these, though.
:-) Horrible things. Acorn had an exchange scheme, and they destroyed the
black ones they got back. There were actually three black models, two matt
black, one gloss, IIRC. One (I forget which) was unofficially known as the
"adaptor and exploder" becasue it had a habit of doing the latter.
> IIRC, the ground pins are linked on the mainboard, the +5V pins are not,
> so you have to have all 3 sets connected for it to work.
Later boards did have the +5V joined up, just not with very fat tracks in
places. So on all but the earliest ones, it sometimes "mostly" works if
one set isn't connected (or is dirty).
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Network Manager
University of York
> --- Patrick Finnegan <pat(a)purdueriots.com> wrote:
> > > What brand and model? My Pioneer plays cd's, but it has a cd drawer
> > > within the laserdisc drawer.
> >
> > It's a CLD-V2400. It claims to play LD's CD's and CDV's (CD with Video).
>
> Ooh! If I didn't already have an LD-V8000 (for playing Dragon's Lair
> and my LD collection), I'd love to have one - I have a Moody Blues
> CD-Video - 4 CDDA audio tracks and one Pioneer-Laser-Disc-style video
> track that only plays in certain players... like the ones you have.
>
> -ethan
Oh, come on Ethan, you should know the primary rule of having a Laserdisc
collection, you can never have enough players. We've got three players at
home that we use and two more (three if you count the broken one) in storage.
Still, I'm trying to slowly convert the most important LD's in our
collection to DVD-R as I'm worried about bit-rot and the players slowly
dying. Sadly there is stuff on LD that will probably never make it
to DVD (I'd love Anamorphic Widescreen copies of some of our LD's).
Zane
On Dec 13, 11:20, Joe wrote:
> At 10:06 AM 12/13/02 GMT, Pete wrote:
> >
> >How many (EP)ROMs are in it? Do they have any numbers on them?
>
> There are five sockets in a row (IC71 - IC75) but IC 75 is empty. IC
71 is an EPROM but the label in missing. IC 72 is a Hitachci PROM marked
HN613128PD11 View2-1 Japan (c)ACORNSOFT, IC 73 is an EPROM and is marked
DNFS 201666, IC 74 is an EPROM and is marked US BASIC 201667. Behind that
row is IC 52, it's marked VI (I THINK, it's stylized and hard to read),
then 403 V 2006 VC 2023 201647 (c)ACORN COMPUTER KOREA-AE. I think that's
all of the custom ICs.
Interesting. The IC numbering scheme is different. I know Acorn slightly
modified the video circuit for the US, so I suppose they renumbered IC
positions at the same time.
The first one (missing a label) should be the MOS. It makes sense that it
would be an EPROM, because Acorn regularly used EPROMs rather than mask
ROMs for "low" volume runs, which I'd expect the US MOS to be. I
discovered that pages 478-479 of the Advanced User Guide list the
differences between US and UK MOS versions. Basically, the US screen
resolutions are the same width but less high (corresponding to 1280 x 800
points instead of 1280 x 1024 -- points are not pixels though, the
correspondence depends on the screen mode, which determines the resolution
used). This is because the frame rate is 60Hz instead of 50Hz, and also
means that the screen memory usage is correspondingly lower in some modes.
The next four ROMs are "sideways ROMs" which share the same address space,
being switched in and out by the MOS. They will be prioritised from left
to right, right being highest priority. When the machine starts up, it
checks each socket looking for language, filing system, and service ROMs.
Simplifying a little, it gives each a chance to initialise, and then
allows the highest priority filing system and highest priority language to
start fully.
VIEW is a word processor, which in Acorn terms is a "language" ROM. The
version you have is the standard version 2. DNFS is a combinatin of Disc
Filing System (for 8271 floppy controller), Network Filing System (for
Econet[1]), and Tube utilites (for a Second Processor). Part number 201666
is the standard DNFS, same as the UK. The sign-on message should be "Acorn
DFS" (unless you have the Econet network interface fitted and either have
changed a link to make NFS take priority or have removed the 8271).
[1] I read somewhere that US machines were fitted with Econet as standard.
If yours has the interface, there will be a 68B54 ADLC chip in the North
West quadrant of the board, a 180-degree 5-pin DIN socket on the back, and
few or no empty positions for components around the ADLC position. And if
you hold down the "N" key while starting it up, it should say "Econet
Station 001 No Clock" instead of "Acorn DFS". The station number would be
different if someone has changed the links in the block of 8 near the
Econet socket.
Incidentally, holding down various keys can force filing system selection
regardless of ROM priority and link settings, providing the relevant
hardware and firmware is present. "D" for DFS, "N" for NFS (Econet),
<space> or <DELETE> for tape, "R" for RFS, "A" for ADFS ("F" for fast-start
ADFS), etc.
"US BASIC" is fairly self-explanatory. Like Tony, I'd be very surprised if
it were supposed to say "BASIC OS" because BASIC is not an OS and Acorn
were quite particular about terminology in many ways (they even used to get
upset if people wrote "Disk" instead of "Disc"). As far as Acorn were
concerned, BASIC (even BBC BASIC) is "just another language".
The two other similar ICs are the serial processor (near the back) and
video processor (near the ROMs). The stylised VI is the VTi logo.
> >> Actually I didn't get a cursor. I wasn't sure if it was supposed to
> >have one or not.
> >
> >Yes, you should.
>
> Hmm. Sounds like it's not finishing the boot sequence.
I think it's getting something wrong, given all those "OS" appended to
startup messages. I'd suggest *carefully* lifting all the socketed ICs and
re-seating them. I'd also suggest you temporarily remove the VIEW ROM and
see if there's any difference. Once you have a working PSU, of course.
BTW, if you're repairing that PSU, it's a switchmode. Beware of high
voltages on the capacitors (including their cases) and on the heatsink for
the power transistor. However, the standard Beeb supply (an Astec unit) is
safe to run with no load (unlike some SMPSUs), and it will shut down safely
(making a characteristic tick-tick-tick noise) if the +5V output is
shorted, and will immediately start up again if the short is removed.
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Network Manager
University of York
>From: "Ethan Dicks" <erd_6502(a)yahoo.com>
>
>
>--- Jochen Kunz <jkunz(a)unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> wrote:
>> I second that. I know a collector who knows nothing about hardware and
>> how it works.... When I told him that I builded a simple voltage
>> inverter (charge pump) to make the RS232 work on the Sun 4/600 MP he
>> looked like it was black magic to convert +12V to -12V. (The Sun 4/600
>> MP boards needs -12V for the RS232, even -5V are not enough. As I
>> mounted this board in a Sun 3/60 case that doesn't provide -12V, I could
>> not use a serial console.)
>
>Interesting to learn about the 4/600 board and the 3/60 case. Long ago,
>I wondered if the two could work together (I _have_ the 3/60 and I almost
>had the 4/600 board).
>
>If you'd have known to ask, I could have provided you with a +5VDC to
>-12VDC converter module. It's about 20mm x 30mm x 3mm. We had to put
>them on the Qbus COMBOARD because the original design assumed you could
>pull -12VDC off some Qbus pin somewhere, and I suspect that it is not
>the case for all Qbus enclosures (don't know where it is available and
>where it isn't). I have several new on the anti-static mat they shipped
>in.
>
>-ethan
>
Hi
There is another chip in the MAX232 series someplace
that creates +/- 12 V from 5V for serial uses other that
what a 232 chip is normally used for. It just needs
some capacitors for the charge pumps.
Dwight
When I had just a record player (sometime back BCE), I had just one
turntable, and one copy of each record. If I wanted to listen to the music
on a record while at work, I could make a cassette tape copy. I wouldn't go
out and buy a second copy of the LP. (The only time I have done that was
when I found a cutout copy of an out-of-print LP that I liked a lot, and
wanted to have a backup copy.) Now we have 4 CD players at home and I have
one in my computer at work. If I want to listen to one of my CDs at work, I
will make a CD copy of the original CD that I own. I have also made CD
copies to have one upstairs and one downstairs. I would not go out and buy a
second copy of any of the CDs if I was unable to make copies -- I would just
ferry originals between home and work. With multiple copies, is my wife
listening to the same one at home as I am listing to at work? Probably not.
Do I have copies of CDs where I do not own the original? Yes, one CD where I
have the LP and one where I don't (and both are of 30-year old music). Would
I buy as many CDs if I couldn't make copies of them? No.
Sometimes I wonder which planet the RIAA is on.
(My $0.02)
Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: pete(a)dunnington.u-net.com [mailto:pete@dunnington.u-net.com]
Sent: Friday, December 13, 2002 2:29 PM
To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: OT: Re: Interesting Tim O'Reilly article.
On Dec 13, 11:12, David Woyciesjes wrote:
> Sellam Ismail wrote:
> I'm like Sellam here. I have bought quite a few CDs, based on
hearing a
> song or two from the album via Napster.
> Granted, I'm one of those people who look for that album in the
used
> rack first, before resorting to a buying new copy. It is a form of
> recycling; but I wonder what exactly do the record labels think of me
> for that?
> I also believe that new audio CDs are still overpriced. Doesn't
stop me
> from buying one, though, if I can't find a used copy.
If *you* think they're overpriced... I just bought two today, for presents.
UKP13.99 each, which is just over $22 according to the Universal Currency
Converter. Yet when I look at my colleagues at work listening to CDs, I
see they spend part of the time listening to MP3s, and about half (I guess)
to CDs. Of the CDs, nearly all are original shop-bought, not CD-R copies.
They have the technology, so that's not why they don't copy stuff.
There's a difference in quality, and in reliability/robustness, and you
don't get the sleeve notes and graphics with a copy. The students I see
seem to do the same. I don't believe the hype or the wailing and moaning
>from the music companies.
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Network Manager
University of York
On Dec 13, 11:12, David Woyciesjes wrote:
> Sellam Ismail wrote:
> I'm like Sellam here. I have bought quite a few CDs, based on
hearing a
> song or two from the album via Napster.
> Granted, I'm one of those people who look for that album in the
used
> rack first, before resorting to a buying new copy. It is a form of
> recycling; but I wonder what exactly do the record labels think of me
> for that?
> I also believe that new audio CDs are still overpriced. Doesn't
stop me
> from buying one, though, if I can't find a used copy.
If *you* think they're overpriced... I just bought two today, for presents.
UKP13.99 each, which is just over $22 according to the Universal Currency
Converter. Yet when I look at my colleagues at work listening to CDs, I
see they spend part of the time listening to MP3s, and about half (I guess)
to CDs. Of the CDs, nearly all are original shop-bought, not CD-R copies.
They have the technology, so that's not why they don't copy stuff.
There's a difference in quality, and in reliability/robustness, and you
don't get the sleeve notes and graphics with a copy. The students I see
seem to do the same. I don't believe the hype or the wailing and moaning
>from the music companies.
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Network Manager
University of York
At 11:16 AM 12/13/02 -0500, Pat wrote:
>I managed to get a few fun things to play with this week - courtesy of
>Purdue University Salvage/Surplus
>
>** Finds **
>
>Lear-Sigler AMD-3A+ **actually working** (compared to my ADM-5) $free
Speaking of LS terminals. I spotted a Televideo 901 last week. It looked like a Lear Sigler ADM (something). Does anyone know if it was built by LS?
Joe
Their current 16700 series LA mainframes (I have one) still run HPUX 10.20
on a PA-RISC CPU with all of the network capabilities of HPUX. I think some
things are disabled by default, but you can boot single user mode and
reconfigure things if you really want to.
I agree that I wouldn't want Windows 9x running on an instrument like this,
but Windows 2000 might not be too bad, as Tek runs on some of their current
LA mainframes.
>From: "Eric Smith" <eric(a)brouhaha.com>
>Reply-To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org
>To: <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
>Subject: Re: The Ne[w|utered] HP (was: RE: The effects of employment)
>Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 18:31:25 -0800 (PST)
>
>My biggest gripe with Agilent is that their recent instruments such
>as the Infinium series oscilliscopes run Windows. I don't use the
>things myself, but I've heard horror stories from friends using them.
>It's a shame that they didn't use Linux, or xBSD. Some of their
>earlier instruments such as logic analyzers actually acted as NFS
>and X clients, but the networking capabilities of Windows are a huge
>step backwards.
_________________________________________________________________
Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online
http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963
[ Trying to put some classiccmp spin on the discussion... ]
> Imagine General Motors, Ford, Toyota or any other car maker
> wanting a cut of the money if you sell your old car to some-
> body else instead of just dropping it into the next landfill.
This reminds me of my biggest complaint about several commercial
Unix offerings in the early 90's - user licensing. "Excuse me, I
can only have X users on my Vax/Alpha?" Alright, maybe some other
non-Unix OSes as well ;^)
The analogy was always to Ford/GM saying, "Yes, you bought our
biggest van with the third row seat, but you may only use the
the front two bucket seats until you pay us Y dollars per year."
Definitely led me to move to systems that didn't have such
silly encumbrances.
--Steve.
Please direct replies to Lynda, not me.
---------- Begin forwarded message ----------
From: Lynda Pieper <lcpieper(a)hotmail.com>
To: cctalk-admin(a)classiccmp.org
Date: Sunday, December 8, 2002, 4:19:41 PM
Subject: Hermes 51
I came across your website looking for "Hermes 51", which is a 1984
dedicated word processor. Since your site is now under construction, I
wanted to know if you know of anyone who would be interested in buying the
Hermes 51. I have not used it since I got my 286 computer in 1987.
Everything for the Hermes is intact, including diskettes. If you know of
anyone or any place interested in this word processing, please let me know.
The Hermes was an electronic typewriter with internal memory and an LED to
show about 20 characters at a time as you typed, plus an external video unit
(with about a 12" screen) which used the small diskettes for storage. I
have ribbons, daisy-wheel fonts, diskettes, etc. It should still work... I
used it for only three years on a part-time basis. Please e-mail me with a
"yea" or a "nay". Thanks.
L. Pieper
lcpieper(a)hotmail.com
---------- End forwarded message ----------
--
Jeffrey Sharp
And, though the US carries a pretty big stick, the rest of the world doesn't
necessarily follow the US direction on the DCMA and the new Mickey Mouse
copyright laws.
Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: John Allain [mailto:allain@panix.com]
Sent: Friday, December 13, 2002 11:37 AM
To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: Re: Interesting Tim O'Reilly article.
> Reverse engineering itself is not a crime.
Agree, but...
The whole notion of what crimes are with a Software
entity is too nebulous. That's why the the
Son-of-a-Lawyer has made so much money testing the
boundaries of Pseudo law, and winning. This is a new
industry and things haven't totally jelled yet.
John A.
> On Fri, 13 Dec 2002, Brian Chase wrote:
>
> > on his actions. Now, the MPAA folks say that reverse
> engineering their
> > lousy CSS encryption is a crime. I think that's absurd,
> and I'm really
> > surprised that /anyone/ on /this/ list would agree with the
> idea that
> > reverse engineering something is, in itself, a criminal act.
>
> I have to second that.
Me too.
Reverse engineering itsef is not a crime.. what you )can( do with
the )results( _could_ be a crime.
--fred
I believe someone asked about this in the last few weeks, but I didn't save
the message. E-mail trestivo(a)concentric.net, he services them. See
www.tarinc.com
I picked up one of these yesterday for $25. And it still has the
original retail sticker, of $99.99 on it. :) Turns out, it is unused
even! the two cards and 5 1/4 floppy envelopes are still sealed...
Anyway, to my point. I plan on using it in the docking station of my
Thinkpad 760EL (running Win98), plugged into a DecLaser 2100 plus. IIRC,
the DecLaser 2100 is just a HP LaserJet II with different plastic body
panels, right?
I has a 16 bit ISA card to go in the PC, and an adapter card that goes
in the Optional I/O slot of the printer. It also keeps the normal
parallel printer cable in place, for regular operational mode.
Now, the manual only mentions Win3.1; not even NT 3.5. Has anyone tried
this under Win98? How about NT4? And how about sharing it over the
network?
Hopefully I'll get the time to set it up and try it today. First, I
have to dig out that little Digital 486 I have sitting around to
transfer the drivers to 3 1/2 floppy! Seeing the 5 1/4 floppy was a bit
of a surprise...
Thinking out loud...
I wonder if I'll end up having to turn that desktop 486 into a Win3.11
print server? :) Hmmm, would Solaris or NetBSD know what to do with it?
--
---Dave Woyciesjes
---ICQ# 905818
Hey All,
Just a slightly offtopic one here. What should I be paying for a used
VAX 4000, 128MB, with an extra 128MB as spare? Machine looks good, and
comes with two BA440's (one with the machine, and the second one for
extended storage.)
Pse reply *off-list* - enough offtopic clutter as-is already :)
Thanks,
Fred
I found this on a recent CUO/DECUS mailing:
Freeware for Vax
Computer Communications Limited (CCL) the UK developer of Electronic
Document Distribution software for HP Open VMS, has announced the
availability of a Freeware version of its software. The Freeware version
is available to companies that are still using OPENVMS on the VAX
hardware platform. The software allows data to be sent via Fax, Telex,
E-mail (with Lotus Notes and Microsoft Exchange interfaces) EDI and Text
messaging to Mobile Phones.
Further information about their solution can be obtained from CCL's web
site: www.ccl.co.uk
>From: ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk
>
>> Jesus H Kraist!!!!! Zane, you need to stick with shit you know
about,
>> and leave the electrical advice to folks who understand the difference
>> between voltage and current.
>>
>>
>> DO NOT plug your 120v PDP11 into a 220V Dryer Outlet!!!!!
>>
>> DO NOT plug your 120v PDP11 into a 220V Dryer Outlet!!!!!
>
>I will agree with that, _but_
>
>(1), IIRC the 11/44 has a handy switch on/in the PSU to select between
>115V and 230V input. It would be easy to flip that.
>
>(2) I was under the impression that US dryers, while using 230V for the
>heating elements, used 115V for the timer. And that US domestic mains was
>a centre-tapped (The tap being called 'neutral') 230V supply.
>
>In which case, if there's a neutral feed to the dryer socket which can
>carry the same current (20A) as the 2 live feeds (one from each side of
>the mains), then you could run the 11/44 between one live feed and
>neutral. This probably breaks code in a dozen places, but....
>
Hi
My drier has a three pin plug, Two hots and one ground,
No Neutral!
I would assume that if anyhting ran on 115, it would be
through a transformer but I think the time is 230V as
well.
Dwight
Hi guys,
Finding this list has encouraged me to try and get some stuff together
on my VAX. Sorry for the extra traffic.
Q1. Right now I have a UNIBUS expansion cabinet attached to the primary
11/750 cabinet. I would like to replace it with my TU80 (with a RA82 in
the lower drive bay). Can I just move the UNIBUS cards that I want to
keep to the primary UNIBUS and pull the DW750 from the CPU back plane
and be good? The James Lothian FAQ mentions something about
reconfiguring some jumpers if you install a DW750, so I would probably
need to change them back if I remove it, right?
Q2. Right now I have a DEUNA, UDA50/UDA52 and DHU11 in the primary
UNIBUS with those bus continuity cards installed in the open bus slots.
On the secondary UNIBUS, I have the TU80 controller, another DHU11 and a
DMF32. Can I just pull the bus continuity cards from the primary UNIBUS
and install the TU80 controller and DMF32 in those slots?
Q3. Right now the memory slots have M8750s CJs in both end slots and 6
six National Semiconductor 753 1M boards in between. Does it have to be
this way? I have two spare M8750s. Are there any advantages between
the DEC memory boards and the NS boards?
Q4. I have a floating point option board (L0001) that is supposedly
intermittently bad. Anyone know what kinds of things fail on these
boards?
Q5. Should I use or not use some kind of contact cleaner on the board
fingers and the sockets they go in?
Thanks,
alan
On Dec 13, 0:57, Tony Duell wrote:
> One you missed (I am not sure if you count it as 3rd party...) is the
> IEEE-FS. It was used with the IEEE-488 interface (which, IIRC, was
> technically a 3rd party product sold by Acorn [1]) and allowed you to
> open 'files' to devices on the IEEE-488 bus, etc.
Yes, it was sold by Acorn, and it was in the official price list. It was
unusual in that it was sold both by Acorn and by the original devloper,
Intelligent Interfaces. The manual says it was developed jointly, so I
imagine that's why. The oldest price list I can lay my hands on quickly is
January 1988, and it lists it at UKP325.00.
> [1] Or at least that's what I was told when I asked a friend of mine who
> worked at Acorn about getting a schematic for this interface. I then
> found the schematics had been published in Wireless World...
:-)
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Network Manager
University of York
>only the power harness. And assuming one couldn't find a replacement
power harness for the bad
>one, what would it take to modify/repair the bad one to make it safe to
use? Is it just the matter >of replacing some of the existing wire with
something of a heavier gauge?
I believe the problem is that the wires are of differing lengths
and hence resistance. Plus they were (or may have been) specced
a tad to near the limit. The end result was that the longest wire
(greatest resistance) heated up the most and eventually went phut,
leaving the other five (or so) to go pop shortly thereafter.
So heavier gauge and same length would seem to be required.
OTOH if the problem was that bad (none of mine in the lab ever exhibited
any pyrotechnic tendencies) would it not have corrected itself by now
:-)
Antonio
A while back, I acquired a 7-disk NEC MultiSpin 2Xc drive which uses
a SCSI interface. With no particular difficulty, I installed the WD
SCSI card and the drive, the CONFIG.SYS and AUTOEXEC.BAT patches and
quickly had access to the drive. Well, I had access to the first
disk in the drive. The existence of the remaining six were not
acknowledged! The WD diagnostic program sees all seven, so I tend to
doubt that it is a SCSI problem, but nothing that I have done relative
to MSCDEX has had any useful effects either.
For perspective, this testing is being done on a Pentium II 133MHz
equipped motherboard with 16Mb memory running PCDOS 6.3. I have yet to
try it with W98.
Can anyone offer any hints, kinks, experience, or clues of any variety
as to how to access the remaining 86% of this 'juke box'?
Thanks!
- don
At 03:35 PM 12/12/02 +0100, Fred wrote:
>Hi all,
>
>What stuns me about this what seems to be a national effort to wipe
>out existing knowledge and experience in the various U.S. companies
>trying to clean up their EOY numbers, is that they truly dont KNOW
>what they're doing.
I knew that when they appointed a woman CEO that knew NOTHING about computers or test equipment, the two items that HP was built on and reached major success with. It was again confirmed when they threw away the HP name (and outstanding reputation) and renamed it Agilent.
Joe
On Dec 12, 7:40, Joe wrote:
> It does appear to be a B. It has two rows of (mumble)16 memory chips
so it has 32k of RAM.
It probably is a B if that's the case (and the part number certainly is a
"B" part number) but just having the RAM doesn't make it so. The chips are
4116s, BTW. As Tony said, there are lots of differences between an A and a
B, but all the upgrades are/were available and there is no difference
between an upgraded A and a B (except perhaps the date codes on some chips,
how many are socketed, and maybe a little flux residue on the board).
I thought I had a document listing the exact differences between UK and US
versions, but I can't find it :-( However, the differences are small:
different MOS (mainly video timings to be programmed into the CRTC),
different colour crystal, different BASIC ROM (American spellings added,
version number changed from II to III). IIRC the US version also had
Econet and speech synthesis fitted (otions on the UK version). It didn't
sell very well, and eventually a lot were re-imported to the UK becasue
there was a boom in demand around 1986-87, which rather surprised Acornm,
as they'd had two successor models since the original Model B in 1981!
> What is "DFS OS"?
Something is wriong if it says "DFS OS", I think. See below.
DFS = Disc Filing System ("disc" has a "c" in English :-)). A
single-density dis[ck] filing system, with a fairly simple flat directory
structure. It can handle two 5.25" floppies, which may be any mixture of
double- or single-sided, 40- or 80-track, so long as they have a standard
SA400-type interface.
Capacities are 200K for 40-track discs, 400K for 80-track. The two sides
are treated as separate disks (so Drive 0 and Drive 2 are opposite sides of
the same physical unit, and 1 and for the other unit).
> I was surprised to find that it uses an intel 8271 for floppy drive
controller.
It's based on an earlier Acorn design. It's possible to replace the 8271
and some parts with others, plus a daughterboard carrying a 1770. You need
the "1770 DFS" to drive it, still single density (in fact, compatible in
almost every way) but you can then also add the ADFS (Advanced Disc Filing
System) ROM to get double-density and a fully hierarchical directory
structure. Capacities range from 160K (40-track, SS) to 640K (DS
80-track), called "S" (small), "M" (medium), "L" (large).
As you may have guessed by now, if you didn't already know, many parts of
the MOS are modular, and it's possible to add many other ROMs with
languages, service utilities, and filing systems. FS's I can think of off
the top of my head include TAPE (cassette filing system, built-in), RFS
(ROM Filing System, also built in), DFS (you've met), ADFS (see above), TFS
(Telesoftware, with a teletext adaptor), NFS (Econet networking), DNFS
(combined DFS, NFS, and 2nd Processor handler), VFS (Video Filing System,
of Domesday fame), "Advanced" versions of some of these, and various
third-party equivalents.
> It powered up up but isn't recognizing any keys except the BREAK key.
I ran it for over an hour then one of the rectangular tantalum filter caps
in the PSU blew. Fixing the PSU shouldn't be a problem. Does anyone know
what they use for a keyboard interface (if it even uses one)? or if there's
any schematics posted anywhere for it?
You want to look at a couple of sites in particular, starting with The BBC
Lives! at http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/bbc/ and The BBC Documentation Project
at http://www.bbcdocs.com/ There you'll find many things, including the
Service Manuals (look under "Essentials"), which include the schematics.
Also 8BS Software at http://8bs.com , where you'll find a nicely
annotated set of pictures of the BBC B motherboard
(http://8bs.com/inbbc.htm). Chris Richardson at 8BS lives not far from me,
and he's scanned a lot of my manuals and contributed them to The BBC
Documentation Project.
When you power up a working Beeb, it should make a double "beep" and then
display something like
BBC Microcomputer 32K
Acorn DFS
BASIC
>
If you get nothing, check power. If you get a continuous tone and not much
more, or just get a flashing cursor at top left, check the keyboard cable,
IC3, and other keyboard-related stuff.
The way the keyboard works is quite neat. Like almost everything on a
Beeb, it's interrupt-driven (unlike Apples and PETs, which are much slower
-- even allowing for clock speed differences -- becasue they use polling
loops). I wrote the following to explain it on a BBC mailing list
recently, when someone had a faulty one. This particular fault was
heat-related, hence the notes at the end; note that the most common fault
is a broken or mis-fitted 17-way ribbon cable between keyboard and
motherboard or a cracked track near a key:
A 74LS161 (or 74163, they're interchangable for this purpose) 4-bit
pre-loadable counter is clocked at 1MHz, and its outputs drive a 7445 (or
74145, again they're interchangable for this purpose) one-of-ten decoder.
For each state "0" to "9" generated by the counter, one of the
open-collector outputs of the 7445 is pulled low, and the corresponding
keyboard column goes low. If a key in that column is pressed at the time,
one of the row inputs of a 74LS30 is also pulled low, which signals to the
system VIA on its CA2 handshake pin, and generates an interrupt.
When the MOS services the interrupt, it uses PA0-PA3 to drive the 74LS161
like a latch, and tests each column in turn. For each column, it also
selects each row in turn. Each row is connected to one input of a 72LS251
multiplexer, and by using PA4-PA6 to address the MUX, the MUX output, which
is conected to PA7, can be sampled. When the MUX output is low, you've
found the row and column of the key that was pressed to generate the
interrupt.
The most likely fault is a cracked track near the counter or MUX; I've seen
similar situations where a crack right beside an IC becomes heat sensitive
(when it warms up, the metal expands and -- counterintuitively -- widens
the crack. Second most likely is the chip itself.
If all the keys in one column are faulty, suspect the decoder (7445). If
all the keys in several columns are bad, suspect the counter (74LS161). If
some keys in a column are good but some are bad, but all the keys in a row
are bad, suspect the MUX (74LS251).
If it's just a mixture, suspect the VIA (which is usually socketed, so easy
to swap with the user VIA).
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Network Manager
University of York