>From: ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk
>
>> A friend has an IMSAI 8080 that he still uses to burn PROMs ... that's the
>> oldest one I know of.
>
>It's nowhwere near the oldest computer still in use (since it's based on
>a microprocessor), but when I need to program 1702s, I have to use my
>Intellec MCS8i, since that's the only machine I have with a suitable
>programmer. And that machine is older than an Imsai.
>
>
>-tony
>
Hi
I use my 4004 system for 1702A's. I suspect that is at least
one or two years older than your MCS8i.
Dwight
Some sad news...
http://www.businessweek.com/technology/cnet/stories/1000732.htm
and
http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=9415
Quote:
"Morrow, who was 69, was a member of the Homebrew Computer Club, many
of the members of which became instrumental in pushing the concept
of the personal computer.
He formed a firm called Microstuf and was responsible for the design
of the S100 bus."
-------------------
Thomas Dzubin
Calgary, Saskatoon, or Vancouver CANADA
>From: "Kapteyn, Rob" <kapteynr(a)cboe.com>
>
>I think RTG stands for "Radioactive Thermal Generation" or something like that.
>
>It is a hunk of plutonium that, on its own, glows at a high temperature.
>Since the temperature of space is near absolute zero, there is a large
temperature difference.
>A relatively simple, dependable thermocouple generates electrical power from
this temperature difference,
>making a really long-lasting, dependable battery -- but not of the sort you
want in your kid's toys :-)
Hi
At least I know for sure that the Cassini uses a linear Stirling
engine and not thermocouples. These are much more efficient at producing
electricity with a thermal source. The linear ones can use magnetic
bearings and don't have wear factors to worry about. They can
also be controlled to give a more constant power output by changing
the efficiency as the radioactive source runs down.
Dwight
I am in need of the HP-UX System Security manual from 1989. I don't know
if that is the exact title but it's what I was given.
If someone's got it then please come forward. There is a bounty for this.
--
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
* Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *
>From what I remember, those probes (and most (all?) other deep space probes, I
>think), use a radioisotope decay generator for power. This is a
>sub-critical-mass nuclear power plant; it uses the heat produced by a
>near-critical lump of plutonium to generate electricity, rather then using
>fission to produce heat to produce electricity.
So is this the power supply all those whiney people were bitching about
NASA trying to put into a Mars probe? They were all afraid the probe
would explode during launch and be ground zero of a nuclear blast (or
some other most likely vagely based on reality doomsday outcome activists
are notorious for).
-chris
<http://www.mythtech.net>
> What most where worried about was just the accidental
>spread of radioactive material in the atmosphere. I don't know
>about you but I don't like breathing that stuff if I don't
>have to.
Knowing NOTHING about radioactive material (other than its amazing what
simple items will set off my fire department's old geiger counter)...
would an explosion really pose a health hazard? Are we talking about
enough of a quantity to cause an issue (I don't know how deadly it is, so
I don't know what kind of an airborn PPM is needed to be a problem).
-chris
<http://www.mythtech.net>
Hi
One should note that most switching supplies are happier
with an additional 20% voltage. Linears get hotter with
excess voltage.
Dwight
>From: "Gary Dean Hildebrand" <ghldbrd(a)ccp.com>
>>
>Cameron Kaiser writes:
>
>
>> Anyone out there have experience with how Japanese computers of that era
>> (early 1980s) tolerate United States mains voltage, since Japanese voltage
>> is lower (100V)? Any recommendations, cautions, or concerns?
>
>A variac (ISTR is three syllables) will work, but why can't you get a
>18-20vac transformer and wire it to buck the 120v down to 100v? I'd think
>that would be simpler, and a whole lot smaller.
>
>Cameron, you said you were in the market for a variac. I have a couple for
>sale, but they are 10A, complete with STEEL rack panel. These would be
>great for any workbench, and good for some current as well. Drop me a line
>offlist.
>
>Gary Hildebrand
>St. Joseph, MO
>In the
>case of a Voyager-class probe, with RTG-sourced power,
For the few of us on the list that are idiots (ok, fine, just for me
then), what is RTG sourced power?
-chris
<http://www.mythtech.net>
>The science being addressed is something we have no other way of observing
>in situ (remote observing missions are being planned) so it's still in
>practical use if you regard basic scientific research as "practical" (I do,
>but then, I would).
After seeing the mission status report on Vyger, I'd have to revise my
previous notion that I didn't accept it as an answer. Since it is still
sending data, and we are still receiving it, and it is still carrying out
its original mission (ie: it isn't doing it simply because it can't be
turned off, but rather is doing it because we WANT it to do it regardless
of our ability to shut it off).
I'd have to say that I now DO accept Vyger as an answer. So the question
is, when was it launched (1977) and is there something older in regular
use (I would think so).
But this also brought to my attention something I had previously not
know. That Voyager 1 and 2 were both launched at the same time. I had
always thought 2 was years after 1 (I thought 2 was late 70's, and 1 was
early 70's). I'm not sure why I thought that, maybe it was because it
took a different course and was more recently in the news sending back
data about the outer planets.
-chris
<http://www.mythtech.net>
I think RTG stands for "Radioactive Thermal Generation" or something like that.
It is a hunk of plutonium that, on its own, glows at a high temperature.
Since the temperature of space is near absolute zero, there is a large temperature difference.
A relatively simple, dependable thermocouple generates electrical power from this temperature difference,
making a really long-lasting, dependable battery -- but not of the sort you want in your kid's toys :-)
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk-admin(a)classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On
Behalf Of chris
Sent: Monday, May 12, 2003 10:25 AM
To: Classic Computer
Subject: Re: OT: Voyager watts
>In the
>case of a Voyager-class probe, with RTG-sourced power,
For the few of us on the list that are idiots (ok, fine, just for me
then), what is RTG sourced power?
-chris
<http://www.mythtech.net>
>From: "Hills, Paul" <Paul.HILLS(a)landisgyr.com>
>
>That's a lot - it's not really a vintage machine, nor a particularly rare
>one. I still use mine as a MC56000 Digital Signal Processing (DSP) testbed.
>At the time, the ?500 I paid for it was a quarter of what I would have had
>to pay to get a DSP experimentation card for a PC, and since I didn't have a
>PC at the time it was a bargain.
>
>In addition to that, I wrote a series of articles about DSP for the ST
>Format magazine in the UK, for which they paid me ?500, recompensing the
>computer's cost! Ha!
>
>paul
>
Hi
For my DSP experiments, I got one of those "SoftModems".
It had a A/D-D/A, ADSP2100 Analog Devices DSP and RAM to load
the programs into. It only cost me $75 when new.
Dwight
>From: TeoZ <teoz(a)neo.rr.com>
>
>The oldest computer still in use has to be a government non military server
>somewhere. The military gets too much cash not to swap their equipment out
>every decade at the latest so I rule them out. Other branches only upgrade
Hi
You must know something about the military that I don't know. When
I was in the military ( middle 70's ) we were still using some pieces
of gear that were made during ww2. The military often doesn't replace
something until you can't get replacement parts any more. In some
cases, even then, ways are found to keep them running.
They do get a lot of new gear but that is usually to add function
and not to replace.
Dwight
>after every user who knows how to run the system is dead/retired. Probably
>some computer setup for the social security database, or liscense plate
>server or other mundane task.
>
>Besides im shure there are tons of Sinclair's running chemical plant
>controllers in the Ukraine somewhere that are at least older then the C64.
>
>What about the computer sent out in the Voyager spacecraft in the 70's? Or
>is this just personal computers?
>
>
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "R. D. Davis" <rdd(a)rddavis.org>
>To: <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
>Sent: Saturday, May 10, 2003 9:59 PM
>Subject: Re: Oldest computer still in current use
>
>
>> Quothe UnRooster, from writings of Sat, May 10, 2003 at 01:14:38PM -0600:
>> > What about Commodore 64?
>>
>> Hardly. That's one of those newfangled little computers of relatively
>> recent vintage. It doesn't seem all that long since my C-64 was
>> brand spanking new. Does that mean that I'm getting old? ;-)
>>
>> --
>> Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other
>animals:
>> All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature
>&
>> rdd(a)rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify
>such
>> http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty.
Voyager Mission Operations Status Report # 2003-03-14, March 8 Through
March 14, 2003
Command Transmission & Verification Operations
Voyager 1 command operations consisted of a command loss timer reset on
03/11 [DOY 070/1555z]. The spacecraft received the command.
There were no Voyager 2 command operations during the period.
Sequence Generation Operations
Continue sequence development of CCSL A047 and B119 mini-sequence.
Data Return Operations
Voyager 1 Data Processing and Operations:
There were 79.1 hours of DSN scheduled support for Voyager 1 of which
2.5 hours were large aperture coverage. There was one real-time change
made on 03/11 [DOY 070] when 1.3 hours of DSS-25 support was released to
Ulysses. The total actual support was 77.8 hours of which 2.5 hours
were large aperture coverage. There were no significant outages during
the period.
Science instrument performance was nominal for all activities during
this period. One frame of GS-4 data was recorded this week. The AHELI1
cyclic for recording additional GS-4 data was enabled on November 17,
2001. A frame from this cyclic was recorded on March 8. The EDR
backlog is 23 days.
Voyager 2 Data Processing and Operations:
There were 73.9 hours of DSN scheduled support for Voyager 2 of which
18.0 hours were large aperture coverage. There were no real-time or
schedule support changes made or significant outages during the period.
Science instrument performance was nominal for all activities during
this period. One frame of GS-4 data was recorded on March 12. The
PRA receiver recovered from it's 84th POR event on March 11. It has
been 393 days since the last POR event. Twenty-six frames of GS-4 data
were played back on March 12. Approximately 96.95% of the data were
recovered. The EDR backlog is 23 days.
Flight System Performance
Voyager 1 performance was nominal during this report period. Activity
included an ASCAL on 3/12 (DOY 071).
Voyager 2 performance was nominal during this report period.
Activities included a PMPCAL on 3/11 (DOY 070), X-Band high power and
DTR playback on 3/12 (DOY 071), and turning ON Gyros B/C on 3/13 (DOY
072).
PROPELLANT/POWER CONSUMABLES STATUS AS OF 3-13-03/3-14-03
Spacecraft
Consumption
One Week (Gm)
Propellant
Remaining (Kg)
Output
(Watts)
Margin
(Watts)
1
9.12
30.23
305.0
28
2
9.82
32.11
306.4
37
RANGE, VELOCITY AND ROUND TRIP LIGHT TIME AS OF 3/14/03
Voyager 1
Voyager 2
Distance from the Sun (Km)
13,119,000,000
10,424,000,000
Distance from the Sun (Mi)
8,152,000,000
6,477,000,000
Distance from the Earth (Km)
13,096,000,000
10,479,000,000
Distance from the Earth (Mi)
8,137,000,000
6,511,000,000
Total Distance Traveled Since Launch (Km)
14,941,000,000
14,007,000,000
Total Distance Traveled Since Launch (Mi)
9,284,000,000
8,704,000,000
Velocity Relative to Sun (Km/sec)
17.212
15.690
Velocity Relative to Sun (Mi/hr)
38,501
35,096
Velocity Relative to Earth (Km/sec)
18.770
24.570
Velocity Relative to Earth (Mi/hr)
41,986
54,961
Round Trip Light Time (hh:mm:ss)
24:15:58
19:25:04
>What about the computer sent out in the Voyager spacecraft in the 70's? Or
>is this just personal computers?
Well, for my question, it doesn't matter if it is personal computer or a
mainframe or whatever.
Although I would rule out the Voyager computer for two reasons. 1: You
can't say for sure that it is still running (is it still sending back
data?) and 2: Its only still running because no one shut it off.
However, I WOULD consider any original ground based systems that are
still in use listening for data from Voyager to be valid. At least they
are still serving a purpose even if they aren't getting any data.
-chris
<http://www.mythtech.net>
FYI
(From the Poqet mailing list)
Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: Sven Utcke [mailto:utcke@informatik.uni-hamburg.de]
Sent: Monday, May 12, 2003 5:33 AM
To: Poqet PC mailing list
Subject: PoqetPad Plus User Guide
Hi everybody,
several of you were interested in the User Guide for the
PoqetPadPlus. Bill Moy was so good to photocopy his version (several
times) and to send it to all interested --- big cheers to Bill for
that! John O'Neal than scanned in his copy, and after a lot of
problems with ftp this is now available as a 16MB File at
ftp://kogs.informatik.uni-hamburg.de/pub/utcke/poqetpc/PoqetPadPlus.pdf
Happy downloading
Sven
--
_ __ The Cognitive Systems Group
| |/ /___ __ _ ___ University of Hamburg
| ' </ _ \/ _` (_-< phone: +49 (0)40 42883-2576 Vogt-Koelln-Strasse 30
|_|\_\___/\__, /__/ fax : +49 (0)40 42883-2572 D-22527 Hamburg
|___/ http://kogs-www.informatik.uni-hamburg.de/~utcke/home.html
I don't know if this was mentioned earlier, but I see that Megan has gotten a new job.
Congratulations!
-----Original Message-----
From: Megan [mailto:mbg@theworld.com]
Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2003 12:46 PM
To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: RE: Oldest computer still in current use
<snip>
Megan Gentry
Former RT-11 Developer
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | email: mbg at world dot std dot com |
| Member of Technical Staff | megan at savaje dot com |
| SavaJe Technologies, Inc | |
| 100 Apollo Dr. | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ |
| Chelmsford, MA | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler |
| (DEC '77-'98) | required." - mbg KB1FCA |
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
>> Rebuilding? Without the existing infrastructure (in the wilderness), how
>> many people would be capable of building/making ANYTHING? Other than
>> Tony, could you make a battery? a bulb? Do you really know how to extract
>> the materials needed from the ground?
>
>I can think of two people off the top of my head - Captain Kirk when
>fighting the Zorn Captain, and McGuyver in just about any episode.
Don't forget the Professor from Giligan's Island.
:-)
-chris
<http://www.mythtech.net>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Vintage Computer Festival [mailto:vcf@siconic.com]
> Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2003 1:22 AM
> To: Classic Computers
> Subject: Re: Oldest computer still in current use
>
<SNIP>
>
> I am inclined to believe there may still be some ground
> systems for the
> Space Shuttle program that are run on 8080 based machines.2
>
I can confirm as a fact that there was at least 1 8086 flying on Columbia
before Feb 1.
************************************
If this email is not intended for you, or you are not responsible for the
delivery of this message to the addressee, please note that this message may
contain ITT Privileged/Proprietary Information. In such a case, you may not
copy or deliver this message to anyone. You should destroy this message and
kindly notify the sender by reply email. Information contained in this
message that does not relate to the business of ITT is neither endorsed by
nor attributable to ITT.
************************************
>I dont understand your logic.
Logic plays no role... this was nothing more than a question I posed
(almost a week ago non the less). Therefore in looking for answers, I can
allow or disallow anything I please for any reason I please. That doesn't
make it valid or invalid for anyone other than me. If others want to tag
onto my 2 questions, then they can use whatever criterea they desire to
see if something is a valid answer for them.
>The Voyager is ruled out because it might be
>too far away to have its valid data (stuff it was made to send back on
>purpose) get back to us, but the recieving equipment that will never get any
>data back since the signal isnt getting back is still a valid system?
The big strike Voyager has against it in my book is that no one can tell
if it is still running. Its not valid to me, because it might be mythical
(not the craft, but rather the fact that it is still functioning).
The ground computers on the other hand are valid, because they can be
verified and someone each budgeting cycle has to make the decision if
they want to continue to spend money having them operate. So they are
still doing their original job... listening for data from Voyager.
Of course, its all pretty irrelivant as I'm sure the original ground
computers for Voyager have long since been shut off and removed. NASA may
still be listening, but if they are, I'm sure the task has been lumped in
with other newer monitoring systems.
>Would an old obsolete college computer that runs a 300 baud bbs still be
>valid if nobody knows about it, or even called it and the college forgot to
>shut it down in the last 40 years?
If it is running ONLY because no one knows its running AND no one knows
it exists... then its a mute point. If a tree falls in the woods...
Although, I would still, for my original question, consider it not valid.
Because it isn't in normal use. The simple fact that no one knows about
it removes it from use (no one dials in to the BBS anymore, and the sysop
forgot it is there so isn't leaving it up just in case someone stumbles
on it).
If on the other hand, a sysop knows about it and IS leaving it running
just to see if someone hits it, then I might consider it valid. At least
it is still serving a function. But I would have to hunt for a better
answer, something that is a bit more in use. (I would also probably hunt
for a better answer than Voyager ground monitoring computers for the same
reason, they may be valid, but they are a poor example).
>If somebody fires up an old 50's analog computer in a museum just to see if
>it still kicks is it really "in use"?
No, because my ORIGINAL question was, what is the oldest computer still
in normal use. So for MY question, that is, the answer I am looking
for.... I will only consider a computer that was put into service when it
was reasonably new, and is still functioning today. I will also accept an
old computer that was put back into service either as a replacement for
one the died, or because it was needed to do a job, and it was the best
option for the job.
So I wouldn't consider a collector or museum that has put an old machine
into service just because they can (although that would still be
interesting to know, but for my question, I would consider that a
different catagory). This of course is 100% acceptable as an answer for
my 2nd question that was: Whats the oldest computer connected online and
preferably hosting a site that can be visited. Its very acceptable to me
that the best answer for this is one that is doing it for no other reason
than because someone wanted to see if it could be done with one of their
old collected computers.
But for my first question, 'm looking for the type of answer along the
lines of "Company XXX still uses YYY for their ZZZ process".
-chris
<http://www.mythtech.net>
Following a successful trans-Pacific trade, (for a DRQ3B) I have the following that will (theoretically) upgrade my Vax 6000-430 to
a 6000-620.
2 T2054-AA 6000-600 CPUs
1 T2019 3.3V regulator, 25A
Can Antonio or one of the other DEC experts confirm that there are no other hardware mods required to the Vax 6000-200/300/400
series cabinets (this particular machine was originally a 6000-310 IIRC) to support the 500 & 600 series cpu boards other than the
insertion of the T2019 3.3v regulator board? ie no re-cabling etc?
AFAIK this is a plug it in and go field upgrade but would like to confirm it before committing irreplaceable hardware to possible
destruction.
Can't seem to find much on the web about the process itself.
Thanks.
Geoff in Oz
Does anyone have a source for Old Cisco hardware, IOS, documentation info.
Preferably pre 1990.
Brian Roth
Network Administrator
A+ N+ CNA CCNA
Network Services
First Niagara Bank
(716) 625-7500 X2186
Brian.Roth(a)FirstNiagaraBank.com
*****************************************************************************
*********************
The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential.
It is intended for the named recipient(s) only.
If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager or
the
sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any one or make
copies.
** eSafe scanned this email for viruses, vandals and malicious content **
*****************************************************************************
*********************
BEGIN:VCARD
VERSION:2.1
X-GWTYPE:USER
FN:roth, brian
TEL;WORK:2186
ORG:;Network Services
TEL;PREF;FAX:716-625-0012
EMAIL;WORK;PREF;NGW:brian.roth@fnfg.com
N:roth;brian
X-GWUSERID:1372
END:VCARD
That's a lot - it's not really a vintage machine, nor a particularly rare
one. I still use mine as a MC56000 Digital Signal Processing (DSP) testbed.
At the time, the £500 I paid for it was a quarter of what I would have had
to pay to get a DSP experimentation card for a PC, and since I didn't have a
PC at the time it was a bargain.
In addition to that, I wrote a series of articles about DSP for the ST
Format magazine in the UK, for which they paid me £500, recompensing the
computer's cost! Ha!
paul
-----Original Message-----
From: Keys [mailto:jrkeys@concentric.net]
Sent: 05 May 2003 05:42
To: cctalk@classiccmp
Subject: ST Falcon Goes high on eBay
This ST Falcon goes for over $300.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?viewitem&item=2725518828
I salvaged this laptop, looks ok, but does'nt have a power supply. Any
members of this b-board in the san francisco bay area interested in it??
robert-e(a)pacbell.net
>> Although I would rule out the Voyager computer for two reasons. 1: You
>> can't say for sure that it is still running (is it still sending back
>> data?) and 2: Its only still running because no one shut it off.
>
>Both Voyager spacecraft are still transmitting.
Is NASA still getting data? I assume it will continue to transmit until a
failure of some kind occurs, regardless of if we can hear it. But I
didn't think NASA was still getting data from V_YGER :-)
-chris
<http://www.mythtech.net>
I am having the same type of issue. I have a VAXstation 3100 and the
Hold Screen, Lock, Compose and Wait lights are all lit. I have tried
typing B and B followed by a device at the >>> prompt, but nothing seems
to work. Any ideas? I would love to breath new life into this Old
VAXstation as a BSD machine.
Josh Beck
I have a StorageWorks unit that's surplus to requirements. It's a
floor-standing box, complete with the doors and keys, 2 PSUs, and some
"innards". Can anyone tell me if all thse bits belong in the same
unit?
2 x SWXBP power supply
1 x HSD10-AA DSSI-SCSI controller (what does this do, exactly?)
1 x 70-32155-01 8-bit interface (SCSI? or what?)
1 x RZ29B 4.3GB fast wide disk
1 x TLZ06 DDS tape drive
It came wih a MicroVAX some time ago, but I've never used it. Anybody
want it, for a suitably low price?
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Network Manager
University of York
Could someone tell what the differences are between a DEC RL02 -vs- a
RL02-A, or point me to the appropriate web site.
Thanks very much,
Barry
--
Barry Skidmore | Hobbyist Systems:
skidmore(a)worldvenue.org | C64/128
Red Hat Linux 8.0 | MicroVAX 3100-40, OpenVMS
Postfix 1.1.11 | Mac SE/30's
--
RCC Forststr 28 D-90574 Rosstal
++49-9127-951340 fx 951341
rcc.electronic(a)t-online.de
Dear Frank Arnold
you have some TIL308 available?
Can you sell us up to 20 pcs?
Please send an offer
Best regards
Wolf
I'm looking for an 8" SMD disk drive. The only ones I've seen were made
by NEC - and I can't seem to find any. What other companies made these
kind of drives? Any suggestions on where I should look or what (other)
kinds of equipment these were used in? (besides Wang minicomputers)
--
Jim Donoghue
Smithy Co.
(734) 913-6700
> So that leaves the question: how to get a kaypro II disk image?
>
> I have a PC (P-166) lying around that I added a 5.25" drive to for the
> purpose of reading some trs-80 disks. I'm not sure of the drive density
> at the moment; that was a while back. What density drive should I use
> in my PC? What software it recommended for making a bootable disk?
> Short of bothering the tireless Don Maslin, are there any disk images
> available online that could help me out? Should I scratch any plans to
> recover the CP/M 2.2 image on the A drive and instead just attempt to
Sounds like you need to bother the tireless Don Maslin....with whatever
ROM info you have. Most likely, you won't end up with a normal Kaypro
II disk image! From what I can make of the available info, you can use
the Sydek program 22DISK to transfer files from Kaypro disks to MS-DOS
files and vice-versa, but it won't work to make a bootable disk. It
requires the use of a 360k disk drive for best results--as 1.2M drives
have different size heads and record at different levels. I've had good
luck using a 386 PC with a 360k drive and wfwg 3.11 to read and write
Kaypro floppies and talk over my lan to get files to/from the internet.
One of the roughly ten Kaypros I've owned had the fan mod; a couple had
OEM fans, but none have had the Advent rom; nor have any had hard drives
added (the K10 I have now has a working hard drive, although the
original files are long gone...and it takes some creative "laying on of
hands" to get the drive spinning after it's been sitting awhile)
Sounds like a fun machine!
--
Jim
Visit the Selectric Typewriter Museum!
http://www.mindspring.com/~jforbes2
Hey Bill
We hope this message finds you well.
It's been almost three years now since we last 'spoke'.
Randy Hill managed to get through three more tax seasons thanks in part
(mostly) to your help.
When we last talked, you had some stuff hanging over your head and we wanted
to
give you the space you seemed to need. With your notes and the assistance
of
another technician, we were successful in cobbling together a few more disk
drives.
Apparently Randy finds himself now with a single 8" drive. He had, at one
time,
mailed you three of his 'original' drives. Randy would appreciate some
status on
those three drives.
We look forward to hearing back from you
Thanks
John Buckner
PS Saw you and your son in a UMD press clipping. Kids can be a real Joy.
Bill Sudbrink, 38, and his 9-year old son Ben had front row seats last
night. The Sudbrinks also attended the three previous Physics is Phun events
this year.
"I'm a computer science major from the class of '88," Bill Sudbrink said. "I
came here and I just thought I'd bring my son."
>Was the pun intended? The term is "moot point" -- to be "mute" is to be
>unable to speak/make sounds,
Spelling error on my part, but it did make for an interesting pun.
>Define "Normal" -- If you can't define "normal" to us, and can accept or
>dismiss anything any way you like, then we cannot give you a logical answer
>to your original question and the entire discussion up to this point is
>moot.
I can't define Normal. I'm intested in hearing all opinions of what is
the oldest comptuer still in "normal" use. From there I'll make my own
personal decision of which I feel provides the best answer. That doesn't
mean anyone else has to consider my choice to be valid.
>So, does that leave the gubbermint out?
I'd accept the government, and actually I rather expected the answer to
be some government system.
>My SWAG's would be that your best bets are: a) the gubbermint, and b) older
>CNC/punch/cutting machines
That was the other place I figured the best answer might turn up. Some
kind of factory automated system that still uses its orginal systems
simply because its working so has no reason to be replaced.
-chris
<http://www.mythtech.net>
> >If somebody fires up an old 50's analog computer in a museum just to see if
> >it still kicks is it really "in use"?
>
> No, because my ORIGINAL question was, what is the oldest computer still
> in normal use. So for MY question, that is, the answer I am looking
> for.... I will only consider a computer that was put into service when it
> was reasonably new, and is still functioning today. I will also accept an
> old computer that was put back into service either as a replacement for
> one the died, or because it was needed to do a job, and it was the best
> option for the job.
Well to fit such restrictive criteria it would have to be:
Digital computer - abacus - 4000 years without a service pack or patch
to the OS.
Analog computer - Stonehenge - It has lost most of its functionality
but it is still in use.
=========================================
Doug Coward
@ home in Poulsbo, WA
Analog Computer Online Museum and History Center
http://dcoward.best.vwh.net/analog
=========================================
On May 10, 19:20, Zane H. Healy wrote:
> >I have a StorageWorks unit that's surplus to requirements. It's a
> >floor-standing box, complete with the doors and keys, 2 PSUs, and
some
> >"innards". Can anyone tell me if all thse bits belong in the same
> >unit?
> >
> >2 x SWXBP power supply
>
> Unless the HSD10 is pulling a LOT of power, you should be able
> to get by using just one of these, while having two gives you
> redundant power, I prefer to have the slot open for another device.
I'm fairly sure it was set up that way to have redundant power (from
two different sources).
> >1 x HSD10-AA DSSI-SCSI controller (what does this do, exactly?)
>
> As mentioned, it lets you use SCSI devices on a MicroVAX with DSSI.
It has three connectors on the front; two 50-pin high-density
D-connectors (like SCSI-2 conectors) and an RJ11. I assume those
50-way connectors are DSSI, and the RJ11 is for a terminal?
> >1 x 70-32155-01 8-bit interface (SCSI? or what?)
>
> Does this plug into the end opposite the powersupplies? It
> sounds like you've got a BA356 shelf. If so, I'm envious,
> I've only got BA350's, the BA356 supports both 8-bit and
> 16-bit interface modules. Oh, yes, if we're talking about
> the same thing, it's SCSI. It's a High Density 50-pin
> connector, right?
Yes, it is. Two of them, in fact. The module is in the top, inserted
>from the front, same as everything else. Ah, I guess you're thinking
in terms of a horizontal rack-mounted unit (the other one that the
VAXes had was mounted like that); this unit has the extra pieces for
floor mounting and (AFAIK) doesn't have the brackets for rack mounting.
Does it make sense to have both the 70-32155-01 SCSI interface and the
HSD10-AA DSSI/SCSI unit in the same shelf?
> >1 x RZ29B 4.3GB fast wide disk
>
> RZ29B-VW?
RZ29B-VA, it says on the outside.
> >1 x TLZ06 DDS tape drive
>
> You have an SBB, with a TLZ06 in it? Now I'm even greener with
> envy! I've only got disks. Plus, I don't have any of the nice
> enclosed models with doors.
>
> >I should have mentioned it's a BA35X-MD box.
>
> These are actually the fans on the back of the shelf. The
> good news is they're the good dual-speed ones that support
> the 7200RPM drives.
Ok, so I shouldn't just dump it, then ;-)
To be honest, though, I don't think I want to keep it. I have two
MicroVAXes, a uVAX-II in a BA23, and a uVAX 3100 (DV-31AT1-A, on the
label on the back). Both have internal drives. I'm not likely to use
either for anything serious, and I need the space the StorageWorks unit
is occupying.
> >It came wih a MicroVAX some time ago, but I've never used it.
Anybody
> >want it, for a suitably low price?
>
> You might just want to keep it... I really like using StorageWorks
on my VMS systems. I've got a BA350 attached to the PWS 433au I use as
a server via a Narrow SCSI card.
>
> If you want, I should be able to dig up all the manuals on this, as I
think I've got PDF's of them.
I'll have another look round, where it came from. They may still be
there.
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Network Manager
University of York
On Sun, 11 May 2003 "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh(a)aracnet.com> wrote:
> >Even better, how about the Digital PDP-11.
>
> Doesn't someone have a PDP-8/e hooked up to the Internet in such a manner that visitors to his site can run stuff on it?
crap-1.update.uu.se is a PDP-8/I. It's unfortunately offline for now...
> > > >1: What is the oldest computer or comptuer system still in normal
> > > >operational use
>
> Define what you mean by "Oldest Computer or Computer System". That can
> figure heavily into the correct answer. After all, systems that you
> might not consider still under production, such as the PDP-10 or PDP-11
> are to at least a certain extent (and I don't mean emulation). Also, if
> emulation counts, that might skew the answer as well. Remember
> emulation has been used for production systems for a *LONG* time.
PDP-11 is still in production. I know a few companies that make and sell
new PDP-11 systems.
> There are still PDP-8's, PDP-10's and PDP-11's in daily use. I'm sure
> there are at least a couple older ones out there. Just look for
> industrial and scientific applications.
True.
> > > >2: What is the oldest that is connected to the internet
>
> Well, various platforms that were connected to Arpanet are still being used.
>
> > > >3: What is the oldest connected to the internet AND hosting web pages
> >> >that can be visited (I know of an Atari that is acting as a web server,
> >> >don't remember the URL, but it shouldn't be tough to find... didn't know
> >> >if there was something older)
>
> I'm aware of systems running TOPS-20 and RT-11 serving web pages.
Me too, such as shop-pdp.kent.edu...
Oh, and anyone who thinks anything with a microprocessor in it has a
chance in this competition can walk out the door now.
Johnny
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt(a)update.uu.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
On May 11, 11:09, Barry Skidmore wrote:
> I think the answer is yes to both questions if it is running Unix
(BSD),
> but no if it is running RT-11.
Then go and look up "fuzzball" :-)
(hint: try http://wombat.doc.ic.ac.uk/foldoc/ )
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Network Manager
University of York
On May 10, 23:46, Antonio Carlini wrote:
> > anybody out here has a manual for the falcon, 11/21 PLUS
> > board ? (real names: EK-SBC02-UG & EK-SBC02-CG )
>
> There's a manual that looks close here:
> http://www.spies.com/~aek/pdf/dec/pdp11/
> (look for the KXT11-UG).
It probably won't help as the Falcon and Falcon PLUS are very different
boards.
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Network Manager
University of York
On May 10, 19:00, Zane H. Healy wrote:
> Strange question, how deep are the drawers in punch card cabinets,
> the tops are pretty much flush with the card aren't they? I'm
> assuming I couldn't be lucky enough for them to be another 0.25-1
> inch deeper.
Yes, they're not much bigger than they need to be, but maybe deep
enough for your purpose. I have drawers from two cabinets, both
measure
internal: 16 1/4" x 7 5/8" x 3 11/16"
external: 17 5/8" x 7 11/16" x 3 3/4"
There's a vertical flange sticking up at one or sometimes both ends, to
stop the drawer being accidentally slid right out. Iincluding that,
the overall external height is 4 1/16", but the aperture in the cabinet
will be just over 3 3/4".
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Network Manager
University of York
>I'm not 100% sure of this, but I think that stereo cards are pretty much
>the same size as IBM punch cards. If this is correct, I'll bet there are
>hundreds (maybe thousands) of IBM punch card cabinets, of varying sizes,
>for varying numbers of cards, that could be had, at who knows what price.
>
> Obie
Try not to be to scared.... :^) I actually have a card punch and reader, so grabbing a ruler, they're 7 3/8's x 3 1/4 inches. Unfortunately while I've got a punch, reader, and a few blank cards, I don't have any cabinets. The person I got the reader from wasn't about to give up his cabinets (or blank cards).
This might be an excellent idea. Unfortunately as I recall the drawers are flush with the cards. I've just posted a question to a mailing list where there are people that should know the exact dimensions of the drawers.
Zane
--
--
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator |
| healyzh(a)aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast |
| | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. |
| http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |
Strange question, how deep are the drawers in punch card cabinets, the tops are pretty much flush with the card aren't they? I'm assuming I couldn't be lucky enough for them to be another 0.25-1 inch deeper.
Zane
--
--
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator |
| healyzh(a)aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast |
| | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. |
| http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |
Hi Sellam,
I quite agree. A pioneer in the microcomputer world who was a hardware
designer establishing standards the industry thrived on into the 80s.
Murray--
>
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Fri, 9 May 2003 11:12:40 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Vintage Computer Festival <vcf(a)siconic.com>
> To: <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
> Subject: Re: George Morrow died Wed May 7th 2003
> Reply-To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org
>
> On Fri, 9 May 2003, Thomas Dzubin wrote:
>
> > Some sad news...
> >
> > http://www.businessweek.com/technology/cnet/stories/1000732.htm
> > and
> > http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=9415
> >
> > Quote:
> > "Morrow, who was 69, was a member of the Homebrew Computer Club, many
> > of the members of which became instrumental in pushing the concept
> > of the personal computer.
> >
> > He formed a firm called Microstuf and was responsible for the design
> > of the S100 bus."
>
> This totally sucks and is indeed sad news.
>
> --
>
> Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
>
> * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *
On May 10, 20:00, Peter Turnbull wrote:
> I have a StorageWorks unit that's surplus to requirements. It's a
> floor-standing box, complete with the doors and keys, 2 PSUs, and
some
> "innards".
I should have mentioned it's a BA35X-MD box.
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Network Manager
University of York
On May 10, 12:15, Jochen Kunz wrote:
>
> [ plain text
> Encoded with "quoted-printable" ] :
On 2003.05.10 12:00 Peter Turnbull wrote:
>
> > 1 x HSD10-AA DSSI-SCSI controller (what does this do, exactly?)
> Sounds like a very nifty device that can turn a (bunch of) SCSI
disk(s)
> into a (bunch of) DSSI disk(s). I.e. you connect a SCSI disk on one
> side and it presents a DSSI disk on a DSSI bus on the other side to a
> VAX. As DSSI disks are rare, especially with high capacity, this
thing
> may be of some value.
Oh. Maybe I should investigate that. Thanks, Jochen. Anyone else
know any more about how it works (connections, etc)? Anyone
desperately need one?
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Network Manager
University of York
A recent dream come true (no, nothing to do with the opposite sex).
I am, or will shortly be, the proud owner of a Tomy Pyuuta, the original
Japanese release that evolved into the American Tomy Tutor. It's traveling
on the high seas from Hokkaido, Japan as we speak.
Anyone out there have experience with how Japanese computers of that era
(early 1980s) tolerate United States mains voltage, since Japanese voltage
is lower (100V)? Any recommendations, cautions, or concerns?
At least it's NTSC!
--
----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ --
Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser(a)stockholm.ptloma.edu
-- if (you.canRead(this)) you.canGet(new job(!problem)); -- Seen at JavaOne ---
