test-drb

test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

101090 discussions

by trixter＠oldskool.org

I was always under the impression that when Intel moved to a CMOS manufacturing process for the 8088/8086, they fixed a bug regarding a repeated LODSB with a segment override -- that the REP prefix was ignored (bug) in the old 8088s, and was honored (correctly) in the newer chips. So a simple routine to try to identify the 8088 vs. the 80c88 would look something like: mov cx,2 ; test if following instruction will be ; repeated twice. db 0F3h,26h,0ACh ; rep es: lodsb jcxz Yes ; intel non-CMOS chips do not care of rep jmp Nope ; before segment prefix override, NEC and ; CMOS-tech ones does. If I run this on my 5150 with (C)1978 8088, I see the bug (cx does not update). If I run this on my 5160 with "80c88" printed on the chip, I do not see the bug (cx goes to 0). So all is well, right? Well, I use this routine in a detection library for a project I recently completed(*) and someone is claiming that the code is broken. It reports an 80c88 when the chip is *not* marked 80c88, but rather "8088 (C) 1983 Intel". So what's going on? Is the chip from 1983 actually an 80c88, since it doesn't have the bug? Or did Intel fix the bug before moving to a CMOS manufacturing process? (*) project is a CGA compatibility testing program; you can grab it from www.oldskool.org/pc/cgacomp -- Jim Leonard (trixter at oldskool.org) http://www.oldskool.org/ Help our electronic games project: http://www.mobygames.com/ Or check out some trippy MindCandy at http://www.mindcandydvd.com/ A child borne of the home computer wars: http://trixter.wordpress.com/

17 years, 3 months

books, free for cost of shipping from austin, tx

by frustum＠pacbell.net

I have box of books that I want to get rid of. The list starts with a bunch of Win32 API books. I collected them while I was writing my Sol-20 emulator. If I ever update the emulator again, I will rewrite it with wxWidgets, rather than messing with Win32 APIs again. If Win32 programming isn't of interest, keep scrolling down, as there are some other books that would be of more interest to the typical classiccmp'er. As usual, preference given to anyone who wants to pick it up, saving me the hassle of shipping. Preference to those willing to take more books. Windows 95 API How-To The Definitive Windwos API Problem-Solver Matthew Telles, Andrew Cook 750 pages + CD Windows Programming Annotated Archives Herb Shildt 520 pages + CD Windows 95 A Developer's Guide Jeffrey Richter Jonathan Locke 616 pages + CD Windows 95 A Programmer's Case Book Seven S. Chen 754 pages + CD Advanced Windows (Third Edition) Jeffrey Richter 1050 pages + CD Multithreading Applications in Win32 The Complete Guide to Threads Jim Beveridge Robert Wiener 368 pages + CD Windows 95 WIN32 Programming API Bible Book 1 Richard Simon 1378 pages + CD Windows NT File System Internals A Developer's Guide Building NT File System Drivers Rajeev Nagar (O'Reilly Press book) 774 pages + 3.5" floppy Programming Windows 95 The Definitive Developer's Guide to the Windows 95 API Charles Petzold, Paul Yao 1100 pages + CD Volumes 1-5 (that is all five volumes) of the Microsoft Win32 Developer's Reference Library Volume 1: User Interface Volume 2: Base Services Volume 3: Common Controls Volume 4: GDI Volume 5: Shell Each is around 750 pages Linux System Administration Vicki Stanfield, Roderick W. Smith 657 pages, (c) 2001 Elements of COBOL Programming Wilson T. Price, Jack L. Olson 375 pages, (c) 1977 Fortran IV (Second Edition) Organick/Meissner Standard Fortran WATFOR-WATFIV 293 pages, (c) 1974 BASIC (2nd Edition) Samuel L Marateck 475 pages, (c) 1982 York APL J. Morgan Smyth 100 pages?, (c) 1972 APL An Interactive Approach (Second Edition) Leonard Gilman and Allen J. Rose 378 pages, (c) 1976 Burroughs B 1000 Systems Interactive BASIC (IBASIC) Language Manual ~120 pages?, (c) 1974 Three ring binder holes, staples removed The Complete Rainbow Guide to OS-9 Dale L. Puckett, Peter Dibble 418 pages, (c) 1985

17 years, 3 months

12 hours for posts to appear

by aliensrcooluk＠yahoo.co.uk

According to Yahoo's timestamp I recieved this at "7 March, 2009 12:08 PM". I am replying at 9:40pm GMT 7 March. I haven't had any problem with my posts (though admittedly I don't post that often). Regards, Andrew B aliensrcooluk at yahoo.co.uk --- On Sat, 7/3/09, Robert Jarratt <robert.jarratt at ntlworld.com> wrote: From: Robert Jarratt <robert.jarratt at ntlworld.com> Subject: 12 hours for posts to appear To: cctalk at classiccmp.org Date: Saturday, 7 March, 2009, 12:08 PM I am not a frequent poster to this list, but I have noticed that any post I make seems to take 12 hours to appear. Am I doing something wrong or is this normal? I am posting this at 12:08 GMT. Regards Rob

17 years, 3 months

6800/6820 Address decoding help...

by derschjo＠mail.msu.edu

So I've given myself yet another project to fill my ever-lessening free time with: to write a Tek 4051 emulator. I have the ROMs (thanks again, Axel) and I've coded up a nice quick 'n dirty 6800 emulation. Now I'm working on figuring out how the CPU talks to the hardware... I have at my disposal the service manuals and a disassembly of the aforementioned ROMs. I also have a physical Tek 4051, but I'm loathe to start poking the PIAs without knowing what I'm doing, given that the screen's electron beam is directly controlled by the software, it's more than possible to burn a nice hole in the phosphor if I screw up :). The CPU talks to a set of 6820 PIAs, and from there it's fairly easy to figure out what bits hook up to what devices, given the schematics (and only slightly harder to work out how they need to be manipulated, by reverse-engineering the disassembly) but I'm having a heck of a time working out what addresses the PIAs' inputs & outputs are mapped to in the CPU's address space. The Service Manual gives a tantalizingly small amount of information about this in Vol. 1 -- it actually has a table of addresses but is very vague -- for example, I now know that addresses $878C-$878F are "Y-AXIS DA/TAPE" but I don't know which ones are for which, nor do I know whether they're input/output/both, etc... looking at where these addresses show up in the disassembly makes a few things clearer, but is not enough. So it seems obvious that the actual schematics would come to my rescue here... but I'm unable to decipher them to the point where I can determine how the PIAs are actually addressed by the CPU. I chalk this up to my lack of experience in digital logic & schematic reading. I guess what I'm asking: can someone out there help me work this out (or give me some pointers on how to attack this?). I want to learn how to do this and I need a bit of assistance... The 4051 schematics are on bitsavers (yay) at: http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/tektronix/405x/070-2286-00_4051_Service_Vol2_M… For now, I want to concentrate on working out the display controls... the related schematic pages for these are: 4_02-03 (cpu), 4_02-10 (x d/a) and 4_02-11 (y d/a). Thanks for any advice... Josh

17 years, 3 months

Powering up a 20-year old MicroVAX II

by ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk

> In sending Roy the information on the markings I omitted what looks like a > "~" after the 250V marking (the casing fragment is damaged in that area), so Almost certainly the mains filter capacitors then... > the caps are probably rated for 250V AC. I can also see an X2 marking on one > of the caps (the other one is too damaged to see). As the damage is indeed > to two caps on the mains filter, I have purchased replacements which I will > be fitting this weekend. OK. If you replace like with like (same 'class', rated for 250V mains [1] and about the same capacitance value) you should have no problems. [1] Most filter capacitors sold in the UK are good for thsi, for ovious reasons. > > The rest of the PSU *appears* to be in good condition but I do not have > anything to test ESR with and I do not have a variac or the knowledge of how > to use one, so I am unsure whether I should attempt to connect the PSU to > the mains again or whether I should attempt to switch it on. If I do feel > brave I will only connect a load that I do not care too much about. Personally, I would connect it to the mains with dummy load (car bulbs or simuilar). I think it'll be OK. -tony

17 years, 3 months

1" paper tape buy ?

by csquared3＠tx.rr.com

On Mon, 2 Mar 2009 11:41:14 -0800 Rich Alderson <RichA at vulcan.com> said: >> From: CSquared >> Sent: Friday, February 27, 2009 2:53 PM >> I also seem to recall that Univac or some other computer manufacturer >> actually used a 90 (?) column card for even better packing density. >> I'll leave that improved calculation to someone who actually remembers >> how many columns those cards were blessed with. > Univac 90-column cards are Hollerith cards just like the "IBM" cards. > They consist of upper and lower groups of 45 columns of 6 round punches > (instead of the rectangular punches favoured by IBM). Interesting. I don't know how I remembered the 90 columns as I never worked with a Univac computer - only IBM's and various minis which mostly didn't even have punched card readers at all. I'm not real sure I've ever even seen one of the Univac punched cards. Your description of the hole grouping sounds like maybe they encoded characters as 6-bit codes vs. the "12-1 is an A", "12-2 is a B" scheme used by IBM. I'm not real sure that's even correct either - it's been a right good while. Later, Charlie Carothers -- My email address is csquared3 at tx dot rr dot com

17 years, 3 months

DSD-880 manual?

by IanK＠vulcan.com

Does anyone have a scan of the DSD-880 manual? I finally picked up one that I intend to put on my MINC-11 (it even comes with the Qbus card and cable). I've searched the "usual" sites to no avail.... Thanks - Ian The use of COBOL cripples the mind; its teaching should, therefore, be regarded as a criminal offense. - E. Dijkstra Ian S. King, Vintage Systems Engineer Vulcan, Inc. http://www.pdpplanet.org

17 years, 3 months

N8VEM topics, S-100 and Disk IO

by lynchaj＠yahoo.com

Hi! There are a couple of projects I am working in the N8VEM Z80 CP/M home brew computer project that may be of interest to the CCTALK community. First, I am working on an ECB to S-100 bridge device am designing a small low cost S-100 motherboard as part of the project. It has 4 slots and is intended for hobbyist use testing, prototyping, debugging on a bench. There is no case, power supply, or other advanced features. It is separate from the ECB to S-100 bridge board so it can be used by itself for related projects. I tried to send a message to CCTALK previously with a URL but it never gets posted to the list. So if you are interested in seeing the design just go to the N8VEM wiki page and the PDF file is in the "ECB to S-100 Bus Bridge" folder on the lower right hand side. The design is not yet final but main goal is low cost functionality so I will not be adding active/passive termination, more connectors, power supplies, or other things which will increase PCB area unless there is a compelling reason. Second, the N8VEM Disk IO board is finally available. It has an IDE interface and FDC based on the i8272. Initial testing seems pretty good although testing has uncovered some issues. There are several devices which are known to work with the IDE ranging from older hard drives to CF units. It is all documented on the wiki and in the mailing list. Several N8VEM builders are working with the Disk IO board and development is underway. If you are interested in either of the above, please join us on the N8VEM project. All the PCBs are available and all the information for hardware and software is freely and publicly available. In particular, I would especially ask those who have S-100 backplane and/or IDE and FDC design experience for help. Even if you don't build your own system we certainly could use some expert help in making this a better project. If you have any *constructive* comments, suggestions, questions, or would just like to discuss the subject you can reply here, on the N8VEM mailing list, or contact me by email. Thank and have a nice day! Andrew Lynch

17 years, 3 months

is it possible to rebuild old c64 hardware enhancements?

by dgahling＠hotmail.com

I was thinking about things like the "super card" and other drive/ copier enhancements that were made back in the day. I even had something from (super card I think) called "IHS Nibbler" (Index Hole Sensor) nibbler. which was a hardware/software copier mix, one part went inside the drive. I remember the "super card" had many different things, like a "ram card" that went inside the 1541 drive. is it possible to recreate these things? (I dont have any hardware any more) I doubt anyone owns the copyrights now, or alternatively I bet a "generic" hardware device could be made... Dan. _________________________________________________________________ Experience all of the new features, and Reconnect with your life. http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9650730

17 years, 3 months

12 hours for posts to appear

by robert.jarratt＠ntlworld.com

I am not a frequent poster to this list, but I have noticed that any post I make seems to take 12 hours to appear. Am I doing something wrong or is this normal? I am posting this at 12:08 GMT. Regards Rob

17 years, 3 months

C.mmp

by aek＠bitsavers.org

> wondered if anybody knew the eventual > disposition of this machine. As of a year ago, it and cm* were in storage at CMU. CHM was approached about taking them, but we heard nothing more about it since then.

17 years, 3 months

Powering up a 20-year old MicroVAX II

by gordonjcp＠gjcp.net

On Sat, 2009-02-28 at 14:23 +0000, Robert Jarratt wrote: > Some have suggested it blew because I had insufficient load. I had a TK50 > and an RD53 attached, would that no be sufficient. Furthermore I did not > actually switch the PSU on, just connected it to the mains, would the load > connected to the PSU matter when the PSU is not actually switched on? I'd use a "modern" old hard disk, not one that's likely to be useful. Or a couple of car indicator bulbs. If it was plugged in but not switched on and something popped, it'll be the mains filter cap. They *do* fail, and they're easy to replace. > There was also a suggestion that the PSU would have needed switching > separately for 50Hz operation as well. The hardware manual I have for the > machine tells me how to switch between 110 and 240, but does not say > anything about switching it for frequency, so I suspect this was not an > issue here. It won't have a 50/60Hz switch, just voltage. Gordon

17 years, 3 months

C.mmp

by chd_1＠nktelco.net

I don't know anything about the PDP-11 MIMD machine at CMU other than seeing references to it while researching the PDP-11 in general. I saw a picture on wikipedia and wondered if anybody knew the eventual disposition of this machine. It seems like a recent picture. Hopefully it is a destined for preservation. The cage makes me think of a prisoner awaiting his last walk down the "green mile".... -chuck http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C.mmp

17 years, 3 months

Edge punched cards

by ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk

Thining of edge-punched cards... The original membership cards for the Cambridge University Computer Preservation Society had 8-level paper-tape punchings along the bottom edge giving (IIRC) 'CUCPS' (im ASCII),. the member's computer userid (ditto) and the membership number (3 bytes, binary). I don;t think anyone ever tried to machine-read them though. -tony

17 years, 3 months

Siliconix DG506AR

by dgriffi＠cs.csubak.edu

According to a datasheet[1] I found, a Siliconix DG506AR is an analogue switch in CMOS. What are some applications for this? I found a pair of them in white ceramic in my junk pile and I don't know where they came from. [1] http://www.datasheetarchive.com/pdf-datasheets/Databooks-4/Book-27459.pdf -- David Griffith dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?

17 years, 3 months

Emulex UC07s...

by lbickley＠bickleywest.com

I just sent a confirming email out to all of you who wanted to join the group purchase of Emulex UC07, Qbus/SCSI boards. NOTE: If you did NOT receive a confirming email - and you had previously sent me an email order by Thursday (3/5), please get back to me ASAP so I can include you in the purchase. Cheers, Lyle -- Lyle Bickley Bickley Consulting West Inc. http://bickleywest.com "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero"

17 years, 3 months

S-100 power supply voltage ranges

by lynchaj＠yahoo.com

________________________________ There is/was an IEEE standard for the S-100 bus; why not hew to that, regarding supply voltages? If I were designing new "retro" boards today, however, I'd go with one of the switching regulators that can be had in TO-220 packages. Basically the same appearance as the veneered and generated 7805, but far more efficient. Cheers, Chuck -----REPLY----- Hi Chuck! Yes, the S-100 crates I have at home all use +8V and 18V/-16V rails from the linear power supplies. I understand where the power standard came from and agree the standard values would be the ideal solution. However I am working on a low cost small S-100 backplane project and I'd like to know what flexibility I have with regards to power supplies in order to keep costs low. 8V SMPSUs aren't exactly common these days and you'd need at least one of those and another 18/-18V SMPSU for a S-100 backplane to work properly. Practically speaking, the linear power supplies are unregulated and generate a range of voltages probably in the 8-10V range as Allison mentioned. I am thinking a 9V and a pair of 15V SMPSUs might be just good enough to work if not a long term solution. Since my goal is to keep costs low I am trying to find less expensive options and still have a useable system. The intent of the project is a small bench unit for testing and repair of S-100 boards but not a full blown system. I agree with Barry and Dwight to keep the voltage rails just about 3V above the 7805/7812 SCRs output for efficient regulation without excessive heat. However, 9V SMPSUs are really common and cheap on eBay and could be readily converted if not optimal, at least they'd be useable for a while without destroying anything. Add a pair of 15V SMPSUs and for less than $50 you'd have a usable S-100 PS system. I don't think you could make a S-100 linear PS for that low cost. Maybe I could put a high current silicon diode in line with the 9V SMPSU and drop it to like 8.4V? That'd be closer to the 8V standard. I posted a schematic and PCB layout on the N8VEM wiki but whenever I post the URL to CCTALK it never makes it to the list. I suspect it's being spam filtered or something. I believe the actual useable ranges of the S-100 unregulated power supply is about 8V to 10V, 15 to 20V, and -15 to -20V. For current capacity since the PCB is only 4 slots, I am thinking on the order of 1V per slot should be sufficient. There are some older S-100 boards that will exceed that limit like those massive 8K SRAM boards but if you are working on one of those probably not all the slots would be used. At any rate, I am swamped with my current N8VEM related projects and the S-100 backplane project is on slow simmer for a while. Thanks and have a nice day! Andrew Lynch

17 years, 3 months

S-100 power supply voltage ranges

by dm561＠torfree.net

As a matter of fact Cromemco's later systems easily ran 68020s at 16.7 MHz on their S-100 / IEEE696 bus backplanes. mike ************************************* Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 19:21:53 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Hart <imsaicollector at yahoo.com> Subject: RE: S-100 power supply voltage ranges CompuPro and Cromenco were state of the ART IEEE 696. The back place was supposed to be able to handle higher than a wopping 10MHz Michael Hart Trader Kiosk 201-290-3796 michael at traderkiosk.com imsaicollector at yahoo.com I, the unwilling, was led by the unqualified, to do the unbelievable for so long with so little, that I attempted the impossible with nothing......" --- On Thu, 3/5/09, Chuck Guzis <cclist at sydex.com> wrote: From: Chuck Guzis <cclist at sydex.com> Subject: RE: S-100 power supply voltage ranges To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Date: Thursday, March 5, 2009, 10:11 PM On 5 Mar 2009 at 18:56, Fred Cisin wrote: > But, . . . > would the standard, even early versions, such as presented by George > Morrow and Howard Fullme at the West Coast Computer Faire, really embody > the SPIRIT of S100 without at least a few non-standard signals? Heh. Was it the SOL-20 that tied the Data In and Data Out lines together? Would you consider the late Godbout/Compupro boxes to be the height of S-100 development? Cheers, Chuck

17 years, 3 months

Roland DG CC122 CGA monitor information

by jrr＠flippers.com

I have an old Roland DG CC122 (switchable IBM/Apple) CGA colour monitor and I was wondering if anyone here had any information on it. Trying to find out if it has a monochrome mode for a test fixture application... Thanks, John :-#)#

17 years, 3 months

Manuals & books that need a new home

by auringer＠tds.net

Hi all, I have the following items that are looking for a new home. Tektronix 9100 DAS manual SCO Xenix manual set w/Excelan "The LAN Workplace" manual & disks Books on 1-2-3 & dBase Misc hardware manuals (PC) Pictures are available here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/jja572 Make me an offer above shipping cost to make it worth my time to box it up. Anything not claimed in the next week or so shall most likely end up in the recycle bin. More to items to come in the near future. Jon

17 years, 3 months

Not abandoned, but...

by rtellason＠verizon.net

One of the things that I'd have liked to do with my Osborne Executive is to put double-sided drives into it. That single-sided nonsense was always an irritation. :-) The problem with this is that I don't know if there is a "standard" format for this. Maybe what the O-3 (Vixen?) used, perhaps? I know that had DS drives in it. One thing I'd need even if I dropped a couple of DS drives in there is to be able to format DS disks. Which means I'd need source code for their formatting utility. Does anybody know what happened to this stuff when Osborne went under? Who bought that stuff up? Where such source might be found? Or if it even exists? -- Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and ablest -- form of life in this section of space, a critter that can be killed but can't be tamed. --Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters" - Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James M Dakin

17 years, 3 months

Last Call: Emulex SCSI Controllers available...

by lbickley＠bickleywest.com

Requests have been "straggling" in just about every day since I made this offer, most for one but some for a number of these boards. In fairness to those who signed up right away (including myself), I am setting a deadline of Thursday, March 5 to get your order in. On Friday, March 6, I will send out an email to all who tentatively said they wanted a/some board(s) on what should be our next step in making this bulk purchase happen. Regards, Lyle ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Subject: More Info RE: Emulex SCSI Controllers available... Date: Thursday 26 February 2009 From: Lyle Bickley <lbickley at bickleywest.com> To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> I've received a number of responses from folks - and a few questions. Here's answers to the most common questions: 1) Is there a warranty? Yes the boards are guaranteed by the dealer to not be DOA. I just re-checked - and he's agreeable to a 15 day warranty. My guess is that if you went a few more days, he'd cover it - but he would like whoever gets the boards to check them out right away. ALL boards will be pre-tested by the dealer on a QBUS system using RT before shipping. All will have the latest EPROMS. 2) Is it standard QBUS (i.e., not "S") Yes. 3) Is the SCSI port standard 50-pin? Yes. Lyle ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Subject: Emulex SCSI Controllers available... Date: Thursday 26 February 2009 From: Lyle Bickley <lbickley at bickleywest.com> To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> I was chatting with a DEC broker recently regarding SCSI controllers for DEC gear - when he mentioned that he had a quantity of Emulex UC07's available. UC07's are QBUS cards which have a single SCSI port and support either MSCP or TMSCP (in RT land, that would be either DU or MU devices). The manual states that the UC07 is compatible with RT, RSX, RSTS/E and Ultrix versions which support MSCP or TMSCP. The dealers initial price was high (as expected). However, he then added - "I'd be willing to do better for hobbyists - as long as they commit that the boards will only be used for hobby purposes - and not for commercial use". So here's the "deal": $235 per UC07 plus shipping from Mountain View, CA (FedEx Ground). I've paid MUCH more for SCSI interfaces for my DEC QBUS and UNIBUS systems - so IMHO, this is a great deal. The broker said he did not want to deal "individually with a bunch of hobbyists" - so he asked if I would be willing to consolodate a single order of UC07's to him. I reluctantly said "yes", as this is not my business and I'm not interested in making money on this deal - only covering costs. To get a sense of interest, please reply to me privately if you'd like one or more if these "critters". The manual for the UC07 is available on bitsavers. A link to a bitsavers mirror is below: http://bitsavers.vt100.net/pdf/emulex/UC0751001-F_UC07_Feb90.pdf Regards, Lyle -- Lyle Bickley Bickley Consulting West Inc. http://bickleywest.com "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero" ------------------------------------------------------- -- Lyle Bickley Bickley Consulting West Inc. http://bickleywest.com "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero" ------------------------------------------------------- -- Lyle Bickley Bickley Consulting West Inc. http://bickleywest.com "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero"

17 years, 3 months

is it possible to rebuild old c64 hardware enhancements?

by chrism3667＠yahoo.com

I'll need an explanation of how simply viewing 25 year old code is tantamount to "stealing". Utilizing it w/o modification could be. Much much code is found in textbooks, internet, etc. There's generally not too much that's *original* (i.e worthy of protection) that was written 25 years ago. I personally don't want to even look at code that is *original* or *owned* in any sense. In other words I don't want to be influenced by any code that, if emulated to whatever extent, and found_it's_way into a creation of mine, could cause a problem if you know what I mean. But I find it awfully hard to believe that there's much that's 25 years old that would fall into that category. Looking at something is simply that. If some printouts were mistakenly tossed out and I happened to find them, am I a "thief" for picking them up and checking them out??? If code was posted on the internet, and happened to actually *belong* to someone in whatever sense, am I breaking the law by viewing or even downloading and studying that code? --- On Thu, 3/5/09, Fred Cisin <cisin at xenosoft.com> wrote: From: Fred Cisin <cisin at xenosoft.com> Subject: RE: is it possible to rebuild old c64 hardware enhancements? To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Date: Thursday, March 5, 2009, 8:37 PM On Thu, 5 Mar 2009, Dan Gahlinger wrote: > you're wrong. there is true abandonware. WRONG. > if a company dies and no one picks up the parts, the copyrights (owned by the company) lapse. > and when you work for a company, any code you write is typically owned by the company (you lose all rights to it). > "typically". And the company is legally, a "sole proprietorship", a "opartnership", or a corporation. > you could say theres a provision of 25 years, but when the entity ceases > to exist, and no holders remain, this is not the case. Did you kill ALL of them? > unless the author had special provisions in their contract or worked > something out before the company died, or someone picked it up, it's > free game. WRONG The assets of the company may revert to its creditors, and the creditors might not WANT IP assets, and give them up, but never "free game" > maybe it doesn't happen a lot, but there were literally HUNDREDS of > companies that disappeared without a trace, registered only to a PO box, > and not to a person. "Without a trace", meaning that YOU don't know where to find them, is NOT legally the same as "non-existent". Your best possibility might be ot DECLARE yourself to be a creditor.? THEN "not being findable" could be legally converted into default, permitting you to acquire assets. > I will gladly "make available" code by a c64 software company called > "MMI" (Magnetic Manipulations Inc.) if anyone wants it... go ahead, sue > me... Did you kill ALL of them? I'm not affiliated with Magnetic Manipulations, Inc. Whoever currently owns the assets might not CARE, but that is NOT the same as not owning. The closest in USA law to your fantasy of "abandonware" would be if the "rightful owner" (legal term) can be coerced or cajoled into explicitly signing rights into public domain, OR sufficiently after the end of lifetime of the owner. Why are you so intent on STEALING from anybody that you can't easily find?

17 years, 3 months

VAX 11/780 on eBay

by derschjo＠msu.edu

Item 150330289821.? A bit expensive for my tastes.? Makes me wish I was independently wealthy and also had the space/power requirements for such a beast :).

17 years, 3 months

offlist - RE: is it possible to rebuild old c64 hardware enhancements?

by chrism3667＠yahoo.com

ok, I'm interested. Incidentally what does the code do LOL. --- On Thu, 3/5/09, Dan Gahlinger <dgahling at hotmail.com> wrote: From: Dan Gahlinger <dgahling at hotmail.com> Subject: RE: is it possible to rebuild old c64 hardware enhancements? To: cctalk at classiccmp.org Date: Thursday, March 5, 2009, 8:19 PM you're wrong. there is true abandonware. if a company dies and no one picks up the parts, the copyrights (owned by the company) lapse. and when you work for a company, any code you write is typically owned by the company (you lose all rights to it). "typically". you could say theres a provision of 25 years, but when the entity ceases to exist, and no holders remain, this is not the case. unless the author had special provisions in their contract or worked something out before the company died, or someone picked it up, it's free game. maybe it doesn't happen a lot, but there were literally HUNDREDS of companies that disappeared without a trace, registered only to a PO box, and not to a person. I will gladly "make available" code by a c64 software company called "MMI" (Magnetic Manipulations Inc.) if anyone wants it... go ahead, sue me... Dan. > Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 16:48:21 -0800 > From: cisin at xenosoft.com > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: is it possible to rebuild old c64 hardware enhancements? > > On Thu, 5 Mar 2009, Dan Gahlinger wrote: > > I doubt anyone owns the copyrights now, > > Unless you killed them, > AND waited out the statute of limitations plus a bunch more time, > it doesn't work that way. > > We've told you before. > > > _________________________________________________________________ Share photos with friends on Windows Live Messenger http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9650734

17 years, 3 months

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