>
>Ok, THX guys,
>I've managed to get this thing running again, don't ask me how :-)
>
It's hard to know how to advise you where to go next when you don't tell us
where you are now :-)
>
>But my first problem, the cause of the fiddling with the system paramaters
>persists.
>
>This is the VIM73-69 source for VMS:
>
> The adequate command for mmk is:
>
> mmk /descrip=Make_vms.mms
>
> NOTE: Because of empty /auto/config.h (needed for Unix configure)
>build
> will fail with very strange messages. Therefore before building, it is
> recommended to make one clean up, to prepare everything for OpenVMS
> development. The command is:
>
> Buffer: INSTALLVMS.TXT | Write | Insert |
>Forward
>
>
>
>$ mms /descrip=Make_vms.mms
>
>using DECW/Motif/XPM environment.
>creating OS_VMS_MOTIF.OPT file.
>cc /def=("FEAT_BIG","HAVE_CONFIG_H","FEAT_GUI_MOTIF","HAVE_XPM" )
>/opt/prefix=
>all /include=([.proto],decw$include:) BLOWFISH.C
>%CLI-F-TEXT, Compiler abort - virtual memory limits exceeded.
>%SYSTEM-F-ABORT, abort
>%MMS-F-ABORT, For target BLOWFISH.OBJ, CLI returned abort status:
>%X0000002C.
>-SYSTEM-F-ABORT, abort
>$
>
>
>I've googled for the error and found this:
>
>http://www.jcameron.com/vms/em12.htm
>
>...that was the beginning of the problem.
>
[snip]
>
>So what should I do next to try to compile that VIM source (hopefully w/o
>to destroying the system again)
>
That webpage has some good advice. The C compiler installation guide should
include details on what SYSGEN parameters and user quotas need to be set to
for the compiler to function properly as well as how to set them.
If you don't have the installation guide, I would suggest finding out what
VIRTUALPAGECNT is now and if it is "small", increase it is smaller steps
than previously using AUTOGEN (not using SYSGEN, if that's what was used
before).
$ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT F$GETSYI("VIRTUALPAGECNT")
will tell you what VIRTUALPAGECNT is set to now. Suppose it 64000. You could
try adding the line:
MIN_VIRTUALPAGECNT=100000
to the bottom of SYS$SYSTEM:MODPARAMS.DAT using the editor.
and then use the following command to run AUTOGEN:
$ @SYS$UPDATE:AUTOGEN SAVPARAMS SETPARAMS
Then review the log files that AUTOGEN says it is producing and if things
look good, shut down and reboot.
Next, make sure that the userid running the compile has as much page file quota
as VIRTUALPAGECNT will allow:
$ SET DEFAULT SYS$SYSTEM
$ RUN AUTHORIZE
MODIFY HOLM /PGFLQUOTA=100000
If the userid is already logged in, be sure to log out and log back in to get
the new user quota to take effect. Then retry the compile. If it still fails,
check that VIRTUALPAGECNT has indeed been increased as expected and use:
$ SHOW PROCESS /QUOTA
in the same process as attemtped the compile to see what its pagefile quota is
set to. If they are as expected and the compile still fails, try increasing
both items some more as per the above procedure. Maybe try 150000 if 100000
is not sufficient.
>
>The VS4000 has 64 Mbytes of Ram, I think that should be sufficient to
>compile something like this, so it seems to me that some quote values are
>the problem.
>
What a process sees is virtual memory, not physical memory. The amount of
virtual memory a process can use depends on system parameters such as
VIRTUALPAGECNT (and BALSETCNT as pointed out by someone else) and user quotas
such as PGFLQUOTA and the size of the page file on disk. The process can end
up seeing less memory than physically exists or more memory than physically
exists depending on how various system parameters are set and how big the
page file is. VMS has lots of parameters to control memory allocation in order
to try to avoid just giving processes what they ask for and ending up leaving
other more important processes starved for memory when they need it.
Regards,
Peter Coghlan.
Does anyone know offhand if it's possible to use the "BCT" slot for an
RH70 in the PDP-11/70 backplane as a standard Unibus slot, for, say, an
RX211 or something like that? It would seem to be a normal Unibus slot,
it even requires that a grant card be installed if that RH70 board set
isn't installed.
I can dig through the print sets for hours to find this out, but if
someone knows offhand I'd appreciate an express clue delivery.
Thanks,
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
Less than one month to go .... we're up to 21 exhibits, four or five
lectures (I forget exactly; adding one more this week), and seven
technical workshops. All the details are posted at
http://www.vintage.org/2012/east/ and http://www.facebook.com/vcfeast8
.... if ever you considered attending VCF East, then let this be the year!
On Sun, 8 Apr 2012 21:25:47 -0500, Adrian Stoness <tdk.knight at gmail.com>
wrote:
> whats a scratch monkey?
Scratch monkey is from a lab accident where real monkeys were killed
owing to diagnostics being run on a computer:
http://edp.org/monkey.htm
This may or may not be an urban legend
/Jonas
Guys, just got confirmation from his son Leonard, a friend of mine.
I'm sorry to say that Jack passed away yesterday. The man was an
immense influence in the consumer electronics/computing industry whose
legacy allowed many of us to enjoy years of great memories. My
sincerest thoughts goes out to his family in their time of loss.
Curt and I were supposed to interview him next week for the book on
Atari Corp. Was really excited to get the chance to meet and spend
time him. :(
--
Marty
Jonas Otter wrote:
> On Fri, 6 Apr 2012 14:30:23 +0200, Holm Tiffe <holm at freibergnet.de> wrote:
> >Hi,
> >
> >I've tried to compile the VIM-7.3 Sources on my freshly installed VS4000,
> >and entered a pitfall here.
> >Since the C Compiler was complaining that the virtuel memory is exhaustet,
> >I'veed the PGFLQUOTA for the user to 104826 and the VIRTUALPAGCNT SYSGEN
> >Value to 2097152 (max was displayed as 4194304)
> >I've let run autogen and ebooted.
> >
> >Now the system ewfuses to boot:
> >
> >%SYSBOOT-W-WS default and quota raised to PHD+MINWSCNT
> >%SYSBOOT-F-VASOV, system virtual address space exeeded
> >?06 HLT INST
> > PC= 00009631 PSL=041F0000
>
> From the VMS error messages manual at
> http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/73final/6023/6023pro_019.html :
>
> VASOVF, system virtual address space limit exceeded
>
>
> *Facility:*SYSBOOT, System Bootstrap Facility
> *Explanation:*The combination of SYSGEN parameters used to specify
> various capacities within the operating system have pushed the size of
> the operating system address space over the limit allowed by the VAX
> architecture.
> *User Action:*Reduce one of the parameters (BALSETCNT or VIRTUALPAGECNT
> (VAX only)) that contribute to the virtual address space size required
> by the OpenVMS system. By using AUTOGEN to set these values for your
> system, you avoid selection of parameter combinations that cause system
> space to overflow its architectural boundaries.
>
> To recover, perform a conversational boot (i.e. the boot process will
> let you modify system parameters to recover from a situation like
> yours). It is described here:
> http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/82final/aa-pv5mj-tk/00/00/34-con.html
>
> Use the "booting with default system parameters" section. You probably
> then need to reduce VIRTUALPAGECNT below the value you have set (which
> gives a 2GB virtual address space) because the VAX architecture allows
> max. 2 GB virtual memory and you are probably just over the limit.
>
> The VMS documentation is excellent, you will find it online here:
> http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/
>
> and this is a good manual to start with:
> http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/82FINAL/aa-pv5mj-tk/aa-pv5mj-tk.HTMl
> (you will find it from the page above by following the link "OpenVMS
> Operating System" to the left.
>
> /Jonas
Ok, THX guys,
I've managed to get this thing running again, don't ask me how :-)
But my first problem, the cause of the fiddling with the system paramaters
persists.
This is the VIM73-69 source for VMS:
The adequate command for mmk is:
mmk /descrip=Make_vms.mms
NOTE: Because of empty /auto/config.h (needed for Unix configure)
build
will fail with very strange messages. Therefore before building, it is
recommended to make one clean up, to prepare everything for OpenVMS
development. The command is:
Buffer: INSTALLVMS.TXT | Write | Insert |
Forward
$ mms /descrip=Make_vms.mms
using DECW/Motif/XPM environment.
creating OS_VMS_MOTIF.OPT file.
cc /def=("FEAT_BIG","HAVE_CONFIG_H","FEAT_GUI_MOTIF","HAVE_XPM" )
/opt/prefix=
all /include=([.proto],decw$include:) BLOWFISH.C
%CLI-F-TEXT, Compiler abort - virtual memory limits exceeded.
%SYSTEM-F-ABORT, abort
%MMS-F-ABORT, For target BLOWFISH.OBJ, CLI returned abort status:
%X0000002C.
-SYSTEM-F-ABORT, abort
$
I've googled for the error and found this:
http://www.jcameron.com/vms/em12.htm
...that was the beginning of the problem.
$ set proc/priv=all
$ r authorize
UAF> sh holm
Username: HOLM Owner: Holm Tiffe
Account: UIC: [200,201] ([HOLM])
CLI: DCL Tables: DCLTABLES
Default: DKA0:[HOLM]
LGICMD: LOGIN
Flags:
Primary days: Mon Tue Wed Thu Fri
Secondary days: Sat Sun
No access restrictions
Expiration: (none) Pwdminimum: 6 Login Fails: 0
Pwdlifetime: 90 00:00 Pwdchange: 3-APR-2012 20:05
Last Login: 7-APR-2012 11:40 (interactive), 7-APR-2012 11:34
(non-interactive)
Maxjobs: 0 Fillm: 300 Bytlm: 32768
Maxacctjobs: 0 Shrfillm: 0 Pbytlm: 0
Maxdetach: 0 BIOlm: 40 JTquota: 4096
Prclm: 2 DIOlm: 40 WSdef: 256
Prio: 4 ASTlm: 100 WSquo: 512
Queprio: 0 TQElm: 40 WSextent: 1024
CPU: (none) Enqlm: 200 Pgflquo: 40960
Authorized Privileges:
ACNT ALLSPOOL ALTPRI AUDIT BUGCHK BYPASS CMEXEC CMKRNL
IMPERSONATDIAGNOSE DOWNGRADE EXQUOTA GROUP GRPNAM GRPPRV IMPORT
LOG_IO MOUNT NETMBX OPER PFNMAP PHY_IO PRMCEB PRMGBL
PRMMBX PSWAPM READALL SECURITY SETPRV SHARE SHMEM SYSGBL
SYSLCK SYSNAM SYSPRV TMPMBX UPGRADE VOLPRO WORLD
Default Privileges:
NETMBX TMPMBX
UAF>
So what should I do next to try to compile that VIM source (hopefully w/o
to destroying the system again)
The VS4000 has 64 Mbytes of Ram, I think that should be sufficient to
compile something like this, so it seems to me that some quote values are
the problem.
Kind Regards,
Holm
--
Technik Service u. Handel Tiffe, www.tsht.de, Holm Tiffe,
Freiberger Stra?e 42, 09600 Obersch?na, USt-Id: DE253710583
www.tsht.de, info at tsht.de, Fax +49 3731 74200, Mobil: 0172 8790 741
On 04/07/2012 01:43 PM, Scott Mickey wrote:
> I need someone to educate me as to why this DEC hardware is worth
> more than $1K:
> eBay auction -
> "DEC PDP-8 paper tape software, books and core memory card"
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320880958746
> At first I thought it was a gag, but then I looked at the number of
> bidders and the amounts.
Do you know any (for example) classic car enthusiasts? Do you know
any of them who have TRULY rare or historically-significant cars? Ask
them how much they'd pay for parts, or for entire vehicles. But, I
respectfully submit, if you have to ask the question, you wouldn't
understand the answer.
> I know there are a lot of older fellows out there holding on to their
> PDP and VAX hardware because they are quite fond of it. However, at
> some point each comes to the conclusion that unless they want to be
> buried with their computers, the same as the egyptian pharaohs were
> buried with their gold, they need to find a new home for them.
> A fellow who was on oxygen and too weak to pick up his computers any
> longer kindly give me two fully loaded VAXServer 3400's for free.
> A few years later, from another retired gentleman, I received a
> VT103 (11/23), VT100, RX02 (dual 8" flop drives), a pair of
> CDC 9427H "Hawk" drives (which about KILLED me when I lifted each
> one by myself), dozens of floppies, and a dozen 14" rigid platter
> disk cartridges. I got all of this for free too. I did pay $100
> for a MicroVAX II, with all original tapes and manuals. It has been
> very educational learning all this old hardware and running the
> early UNIXes on real hardware (not an emulator). I found all these
> people and all of this stuff locally on craigslist. So when I see
> bits of DEC paper tape and core memory going for more than $1000,
> I am flabbergasted. Completely. Shouldn't this money be staying
> in your retirement account? (No offense intended). Why is this
> particular stuff so valuable?
"I got this amazing, incredible deal once (or even got lucky enough to
get such a deal TWICE!), therefore they're all like that."
No, I'm sorry, that's not the way it works. You got lucky. Twice.
Don't take it for granted. I know people who would skip meals for the
hardware you listed. I wouldn't, but there ARE computer-related things
I'd skip meals to acquire, with no hesitation.
Just like any REAL classic car person...except the car stuff is a lot
more common.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
Sorry for psoting this publically, but a private reply to Rob got a
bounce 'due to unacceptable content'. OK, I probalby wouldn't talk about
soldering iron bits in polite compnay, but I cna think of many worse
words to use :-)
-tony
> > Hello Tony,
> >
> > If you recall I got a Weller TCP probably just like yours. I have a couple
> > of PT-AA8 tips, but they seem a bit too big for working with some of the
> > boards I need to work with.
> >
> > What tips would you recommend for working with the H7140 PSU (and the RD53
> > motor control board)?
>
> Well I use a PT-AA8 for just about everything. There is a finer one
> (PT-O8???) which I use for some SMD work (but a lot of that gets done
> with the PT-AA8 actually).
>
> Certainly it should be OK for the PSU and RD53 boards.
>
> -tony
>
indeed
http://img853.imageshack.us/img853/1291/boxus.jpghttp://img856.imageshack.us/img856/9946/atomcomps.jpghttp://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg717/scaled.php?server=717&filename=atom005…http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg803/scaled.php?server=803&filename=atom004…http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg189/scaled.php?server=189&filename=handboo…http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/228/2dec.jpghttp://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg842/scaled.php?server=842&filename=boxsx.j…
On Sat, Apr 7, 2012 at 10:55 PM, Scott Mickey <scott.m.18 at atsgate.com> wrote:
> Adrian Stoness wrote:
>> i was bidding on it from the start quite strongly . . .
> I switched to JBidwatcher recently, as I have always preferred to
> bid against the clock, not other people.
> http://www.jbidwatcher.com/
> It is a Java app and will run with Solaris or Linux. ?Launch with:
> java -Xmx512m -jar JBidwatcher-2.5.jar
> Or if you ahve more mainstream hardware, it runs on Windows or OS X.
> It's free. ?I have only used it for a couple of auctions so far,
> but have found it works well. ?-For what it's worth.
> And on your free pdp8a, I think it is true that the free stuff is
> often the best. ?Maybe just because of the hardware itself, or
> perhaps also because it was given with an unspoken contract that
> you are to take care of it.
> Scott
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Adrian Stoness" <tdk.knight at gmail.com>
> To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
> Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2012 5:56 PM
> Subject: Re: pdp8 tapes trays core memory ebay auction
>
>>i put a 500$ bid in on that auction didn't expect this and it proly
>> shot up that high cause i was biding on it from the start quite
>> stronglyv and my bid was based on what i have seen these individual
>> items go for so i am kinda shocked
>>
>> as for freebees i score a free pdp8a my pride n joy of my collection
>> and have been aquiring parts for it ever since like rk05's and
>> controllors rl02's
>>
>> as for you talk about freebees mines not as nice as ur stuff but i did
>> score a pdp8a with all its software manuals drawings asr33 x2
>> On Sat, Apr 7, 2012 at 12:43 PM, Scott Mickey <scott.m.18 at atsgate.com>
> wrote:
>>> I need someone to educate me as to why this DEC hardware is worth
>>> more than $1K:
>>> eBay auction -
>>> "DEC PDP-8 paper tape software, books and core memory card"
>>> http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320880958746
>>> At first I thought it was a gag, but then I looked at the number of
>>> bidders and the amounts.
>>> I know there are a lot of older fellows out there holding on to their
>>> PDP and VAX hardware because they are quite fond of it. However, at
>>> some point each comes to the conclusion that unless they want to be
>>> buried with their computers, the same as the egyptian pharaohs were
>>> buried with their gold, they need to find a new home for them.
>>> A fellow who was on oxygen and too weak to pick up his computers any
>>> longer kindly give me two fully loaded VAXServer 3400's for free.
>>> A few years later, from another retired gentleman, I received a
>>> VT103 (11/23), VT100, RX02 (dual 8" flop drives), a pair of
>>> CDC 9427H "Hawk" drives (which about KILLED me when I lifted each
>>> one by myself), dozens of floppies, and a dozen 14" rigid platter
>>> disk cartridges. I got all of this for free too. I did pay $100
>>> for a MicroVAX II, with all original tapes and manuals. It has been
>>> very educational learning all this old hardware and running the
>>> early UNIXes on real hardware (not an emulator). I found all these
>>> people and all of this stuff locally on craigslist. So when I see
>>> bits of DEC paper tape and core memory going for more than $1000,
>>> I am flabbergasted. Completely. Shouldn't this money be staying
>>> in your retirement account? (No offense intended). Why is this
>>> particular stuff so valuable?
>>> Thank you for your time today.
>>>
>>> Scott
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Adrian Stoness"
>>> To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
>>> <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
>>> Sent: Friday, April 06, 2012 6:19 PM
>>> Subject: pdp8 tapes trays core memory ebay auction
>>>
>>>> i put bid in and went to work at 6am and see this when i get back
>>>> 1100 bucks :O
>>>>
>>>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&_trksid=p4340.l2557&rt=nc&nma=
>>>
> true&item=320880958746&si=6c9FJZXW%252BgdjnHCVq%252FpYYQ4M3tI%253D&viewitem=
>>> &sspagename=ADME%3AB%3AEOIBUAA%3ACA%3A3160&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc
>>>>
>
>
Adrian Stoness wrote:
> i was bidding on it from the start quite strongly . . .
I switched to JBidwatcher recently, as I have always preferred to
bid against the clock, not other people.
http://www.jbidwatcher.com/
It is a Java app and will run with Solaris or Linux. Launch with:
java -Xmx512m -jar JBidwatcher-2.5.jar
Or if you ahve more mainstream hardware, it runs on Windows or OS X.
It's free. I have only used it for a couple of auctions so far,
but have found it works well. -For what it's worth.
And on your free pdp8a, I think it is true that the free stuff is
often the best. Maybe just because of the hardware itself, or
perhaps also because it was given with an unspoken contract that
you are to take care of it.
Scott
----- Original Message -----
From: "Adrian Stoness" <tdk.knight at gmail.com>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2012 5:56 PM
Subject: Re: pdp8 tapes trays core memory ebay auction
>i put a 500$ bid in on that auction didn't expect this and it proly
> shot up that high cause i was biding on it from the start quite
> stronglyv and my bid was based on what i have seen these individual
> items go for so i am kinda shocked
>
> as for freebees i score a free pdp8a my pride n joy of my collection
> and have been aquiring parts for it ever since like rk05's and
> controllors rl02's
>
> as for you talk about freebees mines not as nice as ur stuff but i did
> score a pdp8a with all its software manuals drawings asr33 x2
> On Sat, Apr 7, 2012 at 12:43 PM, Scott Mickey <scott.m.18 at atsgate.com>
wrote:
>> I need someone to educate me as to why this DEC hardware is worth
>> more than $1K:
>> eBay auction -
>> "DEC PDP-8 paper tape software, books and core memory card"
>> http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320880958746
>> At first I thought it was a gag, but then I looked at the number of
>> bidders and the amounts.
>> I know there are a lot of older fellows out there holding on to their
>> PDP and VAX hardware because they are quite fond of it. However, at
>> some point each comes to the conclusion that unless they want to be
>> buried with their computers, the same as the egyptian pharaohs were
>> buried with their gold, they need to find a new home for them.
>> A fellow who was on oxygen and too weak to pick up his computers any
>> longer kindly give me two fully loaded VAXServer 3400's for free.
>> A few years later, from another retired gentleman, I received a
>> VT103 (11/23), VT100, RX02 (dual 8" flop drives), a pair of
>> CDC 9427H "Hawk" drives (which about KILLED me when I lifted each
>> one by myself), dozens of floppies, and a dozen 14" rigid platter
>> disk cartridges. I got all of this for free too. I did pay $100
>> for a MicroVAX II, with all original tapes and manuals. It has been
>> very educational learning all this old hardware and running the
>> early UNIXes on real hardware (not an emulator). I found all these
>> people and all of this stuff locally on craigslist. So when I see
>> bits of DEC paper tape and core memory going for more than $1000,
>> I am flabbergasted. Completely. Shouldn't this money be staying
>> in your retirement account? (No offense intended). Why is this
>> particular stuff so valuable?
>> Thank you for your time today.
>>
>> Scott
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Adrian Stoness"
>> To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
>> <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
>> Sent: Friday, April 06, 2012 6:19 PM
>> Subject: pdp8 tapes trays core memory ebay auction
>>
>>> i put bid in and went to work at 6am and see this when i get back
>>> 1100 bucks :O
>>>
>>
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&_trksid=p4340.l2557&rt=nc&nma=
>>
true&item=320880958746&si=6c9FJZXW%252BgdjnHCVq%252FpYYQ4M3tI%253D&viewitem=
>> &sspagename=ADME%3AB%3AEOIBUAA%3ACA%3A3160&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc
>>>
> On 04/07/2012 01:43 PM, Scott Mickey wrote:
>> I need someone to educate me as to why this DEC hardware is worth
>> more than $1K:
>> eBay auction -
>> "DEC PDP-8 paper tape software, books and core memory card"
>> http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320880958746
>> At first I thought it was a gag, but then I looked at the number of
>> bidders and the amounts.
On Saturday, April 07, 2012 5:20 PM, Dave McGuire wrote:
>
> Do you know any (for example) classic car enthusiasts? Do you know
> any of them who have TRULY rare or historically-significant cars? Ask
> them how much they'd pay for parts, or for entire vehicles. But, I
> respectfully submit, if you have to ask the question, you wouldn't
> understand the answer.
>
>> I know there are a lot of older fellows out there holding on to their
>> PDP and VAX hardware because they are quite fond of it. However, at
>> some point each comes to the conclusion that unless they want to be
>> buried with their computers, the same as the egyptian pharaohs were
>> buried with their gold, they need to find a new home for them.
>> A fellow who was on oxygen and too weak to pick up his computers any
>> longer kindly give me two fully loaded VAXServer 3400's for free.
>> A few years later, from another retired gentleman, I received a
>> VT103 (11/23), VT100, RX02 (dual 8" flop drives), a pair of
>> CDC 9427H "Hawk" drives (which about KILLED me when I lifted each
>> one by myself), dozens of floppies, and a dozen 14" rigid platter
>> disk cartridges. I got all of this for free too. I did pay $100
>> for a MicroVAX II, with all original tapes and manuals. It has been
>> very educational learning all this old hardware and running the
>> early UNIXes on real hardware (not an emulator). I found all these
>> people and all of this stuff locally on craigslist. So when I see
>> bits of DEC paper tape and core memory going for more than $1000,
>> I am flabbergasted. Completely. Shouldn't this money be staying
>> in your retirement account? (No offense intended). Why is this
>> particular stuff so valuable?
>
> "I got this amazing, incredible deal once (or even got lucky enough to
> get such a deal TWICE!), therefore they're all like that."
>
> No, I'm sorry, that's not the way it works. You got lucky. Twice.
> Don't take it for granted. I know people who would skip meals for the
> hardware you listed. I wouldn't, but there ARE computer-related things
> I'd skip meals to acquire, with no hesitation.
>
> Just like any REAL classic car person...except the car stuff is a lot
> more common.
>
> -Dave
>
> --
> Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
> New Kensington, PA
>
Dave,
Thanks for your perspective. Where I live (near Denver), both Maynard
Massachusetts and Silicon Valley are a long-long way away, and always
have been. I think that is one reason why when older computers go up
on craigslist here, I am often the only person to email the seller.
I should have stopped at my original question, and left out the info
about DEC machines I have acquired, as it completely diverted attention
away from what I was asking. I was just shocked by the dollar figure
of that eBay auction, and telling my own story is how I reacted. So,
back to the question: What were the valuable items in the auction?
I don't think it was the books. And I doubt it was the core memory,
but I could be wrong. I think it must have been the paper tapes with
the original DEC labels. Those are somewhat fragile, and while a
computer can sit in a corner for years with little degradation, the
same likely cannot be said for the paper tapes. Or maybe people tossed
those tapes over the years with little thought, so now they are very
rare? But still, $1K, wow! Makes one think twice about tossing
anything, doesn't it?
Scott
i put a 500$ bid in on that auction didn't expect this and it proly
shot up that high cause i was biding on it from the start quite
stronglyv and my bid was based on what i have seen these individual
items go for so i am kinda shocked
as for freebees i score a free pdp8a my pride n joy of my collection
and have been aquiring parts for it ever since like rk05's and
controllors rl02's
as for you talk about freebees mines not as nice as ur stuff but i did
score a pdp8a with all its software manuals drawings asr33 x2
On Sat, Apr 7, 2012 at 12:43 PM, Scott Mickey <scott.m.18 at atsgate.com> wrote:
> I need someone to educate me as to why this DEC hardware is worth
> more than $1K:
> eBay auction -
> "DEC PDP-8 paper tape software, books and core memory card"
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320880958746
> At first I thought it was a gag, but then I looked at the number of
> bidders and the amounts.
> I know there are a lot of older fellows out there holding on to their
> PDP and VAX hardware because they are quite fond of it. ? However, at
> some point each comes to the conclusion that unless they want to be
> buried with their computers, the same as the egyptian pharaohs were
> buried with their gold, they need to find a new home for them.
> A fellow who was on oxygen and too weak to pick up his computers any
> longer kindly give me two fully loaded VAXServer 3400's for free.
> A few years later, from another retired gentleman, I received a
> VT103 (11/23), VT100, RX02 (dual 8" flop drives), a pair of
> CDC 9427H "Hawk" drives (which about KILLED me when I lifted each
> one by myself), dozens of floppies, and a dozen 14" rigid platter
> disk cartridges. ?I got all of this for free too. ?I did pay $100
> for a MicroVAX II, with all original tapes and manuals. ?It has been
> very educational learning all this old hardware and running the
> early UNIXes on real hardware (not an emulator). ?I found all these
> people and all of this stuff locally on craigslist. ? So when I see
> bits of DEC paper tape and core memory going for more than $1000,
> I am flabbergasted. ?Completely. ? Shouldn't this money be staying
> in your retirement account? ?(No offense intended). ?Why is this
> particular stuff so valuable?
> Thank you for your time today.
>
> Scott
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Adrian Stoness"
> To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
> <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
> Sent: Friday, April 06, 2012 6:19 PM
> Subject: pdp8 tapes trays core memory ebay auction
>
>> i put bid in and went to work at 6am and see this when i get back
>> 1100 bucks :O
>>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&_trksid=p4340.l2557&rt=nc&nma=
> true&item=320880958746&si=6c9FJZXW%252BgdjnHCVq%252FpYYQ4M3tI%253D&viewitem=
> &sspagename=ADME%3AB%3AEOIBUAA%3ACA%3A3160&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc
>>
>
>
On 4/7/12 10:43 AM, Scott Mickey wrote:
> I need someone to educate me as to why this DEC hardware is worth
> more than $1K:
>
> I know there are a lot of older fellows out there holding on to their
> PDP and VAX hardware because they are quite fond of it.
> A fellow who was on oxygen and too weak to pick up his computers any
> longer
> Shouldn't this money be staying
> in your retirement account? (No offense intended)
I find your na?vet? refreshing, if offensive.
You'll be 'old' some day too.
Let's see how you feel when a kid comes along eying your collection.
> about KILLED me when I lifted each one by myself
Learn about dealing with heavy equipment before you do permanent
damage to your back. It's easy to ignore this when you're young
and stupid.
I need someone to educate me as to why this DEC hardware is worth
more than $1K:
eBay auction -
"DEC PDP-8 paper tape software, books and core memory card"
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320880958746
At first I thought it was a gag, but then I looked at the number of
bidders and the amounts.
I know there are a lot of older fellows out there holding on to their
PDP and VAX hardware because they are quite fond of it. However, at
some point each comes to the conclusion that unless they want to be
buried with their computers, the same as the egyptian pharaohs were
buried with their gold, they need to find a new home for them.
A fellow who was on oxygen and too weak to pick up his computers any
longer kindly give me two fully loaded VAXServer 3400's for free.
A few years later, from another retired gentleman, I received a
VT103 (11/23), VT100, RX02 (dual 8" flop drives), a pair of
CDC 9427H "Hawk" drives (which about KILLED me when I lifted each
one by myself), dozens of floppies, and a dozen 14" rigid platter
disk cartridges. I got all of this for free too. I did pay $100
for a MicroVAX II, with all original tapes and manuals. It has been
very educational learning all this old hardware and running the
early UNIXes on real hardware (not an emulator). I found all these
people and all of this stuff locally on craigslist. So when I see
bits of DEC paper tape and core memory going for more than $1000,
I am flabbergasted. Completely. Shouldn't this money be staying
in your retirement account? (No offense intended). Why is this
particular stuff so valuable?
Thank you for your time today.
Scott
----- Original Message -----
From: "Adrian Stoness"
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Friday, April 06, 2012 6:19 PM
Subject: pdp8 tapes trays core memory ebay auction
> i put bid in and went to work at 6am and see this when i get back
> 1100 bucks :O
>
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&_trksid=p4340.l2557&rt=nc&nma=
true&item=320880958746&si=6c9FJZXW%252BgdjnHCVq%252FpYYQ4M3tI%253D&viewitem=
&sspagename=ADME%3AB%3AEOIBUAA%3ACA%3A3160&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc
>
Hey guys
I work for an ewaste company, thought id share what we have in right now
10 Dell Precision 390s
2.4ghz Core 2 Duos
3.5 Floppy Drive- BIOS Supports 5.25 drives as well
Dual 160GB SATA HDDs
2GB RAM
XP COA on each machine
Asking $100 dollars each for them + Shipping or come to my door in
Flushing MI and get them
Steve
On Fri, 6 Apr 2012 14:30:23 +0200, Holm Tiffe <holm at freibergnet.de> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I've tried to compile the VIM-7.3 Sources on my freshly installed VS4000,
> and entered a pitfall here.
> Since the C Compiler was complaining that the virtuel memory is exhaustet,
> I'veed the PGFLQUOTA for the user to 104826 and the VIRTUALPAGCNT SYSGEN
> Value to 2097152 (max was displayed as 4194304)
> I've let run autogen and ebooted.
>
> Now the system ewfuses to boot:
>
> %SYSBOOT-W-WS default and quota raised to PHD+MINWSCNT
> %SYSBOOT-F-VASOV, system virtual address space exeeded
> ?06 HLT INST
> PC= 00009631 PSL=041F0000
From the VMS error messages manual at
http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/73final/6023/6023pro_019.html :
VASOVF, system virtual address space limit exceeded
*Facility:*SYSBOOT, System Bootstrap Facility
*Explanation:*The combination of SYSGEN parameters used to specify
various capacities within the operating system have pushed the size of
the operating system address space over the limit allowed by the VAX
architecture.
*User Action:*Reduce one of the parameters (BALSETCNT or VIRTUALPAGECNT
(VAX only)) that contribute to the virtual address space size required
by the OpenVMS system. By using AUTOGEN to set these values for your
system, you avoid selection of parameter combinations that cause system
space to overflow its architectural boundaries.
To recover, perform a conversational boot (i.e. the boot process will
let you modify system parameters to recover from a situation like
yours). It is described here:
http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/82final/aa-pv5mj-tk/00/00/34-con.html
Use the "booting with default system parameters" section. You probably
then need to reduce VIRTUALPAGECNT below the value you have set (which
gives a 2GB virtual address space) because the VAX architecture allows
max. 2 GB virtual memory and you are probably just over the limit.
The VMS documentation is excellent, you will find it online here:
http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/
and this is a good manual to start with:
http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/82FINAL/aa-pv5mj-tk/aa-pv5mj-tk.HTMl
(you will find it from the page above by following the link "OpenVMS
Operating System" to the left.
/Jonas
>
>I've tried to compile the VIM-7.3 Sources on my freshly installed VS4000,
>and entered a pitfall here.
>Since the C Compiler was complaining that the virtuel memory is exhaustet,
>I'veed the PGFLQUOTA for the user to 104826 and the VIRTUALPAGCNT SYSGEN
>Value to 2097152 (max was displayed as 4194304)
>I've let run autogen and ebooted.
>
VIRTUALPAGECNT is specified in pages and 2097152 pages is 1GB.
>Now the system ewfuses to boot:
>
>%SYSBOOT-W-WS default and quota raised to PHD+MINWSCNT
>%SYSBOOT-F-VASOV, system virtual address space exeeded
>?06 HLT INST
> PC= 00009631 PSL=041F0000
Your VAX probably doesn't have enough page file to back 1GB of virtual
memory per process. Perhaps some process is defaulting to grabbing as
much as it can and you are running out of pagefile?
>
>What can I do now to boot this thing again?
>
I would suggest doing a conversational boot and setting VIRTUALPAGECNT back
down to something more reasonable. How to do a conversational boot varies for
different types of VAX but usually it is something like:
>>> BOOT /R5:1
or
>>> BOOT /1
You should end up at a prompt ( SYSBOOT> I think) where you can alter SYSGEN
parameters. Enter something like:
SET VIRTUALPAGECNT 64000
CONTINUE
and hopefully your system should then boot up ok. If you already entered a
very large value for VIRTUALPAGECNT into SYS$SYSTEM:MODPARAMS.DAT, you should
probably change it to something smaller before you run AUTOGEN again.
AUTOGEN defaults to shutting down and rebooting the system after it sets the
new system parameters. This is fine if everything worked out well but is not
so great when things go wrong. A better way to do it is to tell AUTOGEN to
exit after setting the new parameters and before shutting down, for example:
$ @SYS$UPDATE:AUTOGEN SAVPARAMS SETPARAMS
When this completes, you can review the logs that AUTOGEN produces and then
manually shut down and reboot if all went well or fix things and run AUTOGEN
again if it didn't.
>
>PS: I'm new to VMS, don't expect any knowledge, I'm a Unix guy...
>
Hope I pitched it right...
Regards,
Peter Coghlan.
Hi,
I've tried to compile the VIM-7.3 Sources on my freshly installed VS4000,
and entered a pitfall here.
Since the C Compiler was complaining that the virtuel memory is exhaustet,
I'veed the PGFLQUOTA for the user to 104826 and the VIRTUALPAGCNT SYSGEN
Value to 2097152 (max was displayed as 4194304)
I've let run autogen and ebooted.
Now the system ewfuses to boot:
%SYSBOOT-W-WS default and quota raised to PHD+MINWSCNT
%SYSBOOT-F-VASOV, system virtual address space exeeded
?06 HLT INST
PC= 00009631 PSL=041F0000
>>> _
What can I do now to boot this thing again?
Kind Regards,
Holm
PS: I'm new to VMS, don't expect any knowledge, I'm a Unix guy...
--
Technik Service u. Handel Tiffe, www.tsht.de, Holm Tiffe,
Freiberger Stra?e 42, 09600 Obersch?na, USt-Id: DE253710583
www.tsht.de, info at tsht.de, Fax +49 3731 74200, Mobil: 0172 8790 741
At 04:53 AM 4/6/2012, Sander Reiche wrote:
>Rosewood always has a nice look.
Did anyone actually establish, with CCC pedant levels of certainty,
that the -8 case in question was actually rosewood?
That's the biggest chuckle to me.
- John
Hi guys,
has someone, perfered in Europe because of the shipping costs, an M8190
with FPU to sell? (Hobbyist use).
If yes, please contact me..
Kind Regards,
Holm
--
Technik Service u. Handel Tiffe, www.tsht.de, Holm Tiffe,
Freiberger Stra?e 42, 09600 Obersch?na, USt-Id: DE253710583
www.tsht.de, info at tsht.de, Fax +49 3731 74200, Mobil: 0172 8790 741
Well, finally figured out how to use the vmsbackup program to unpack
a backup save set - it sure wasn't obvious.
First, after reading in the whole tape, you need to extract the backup
save set file with no formatting. So, it won't handle a tape container
format. So, you want the XXX.BCK file put into a file with just a
stream of raw bytes, with no blocksize value like in the container
format. Then, you use vmsbackup like this :
vmsbackup -xe -b <blocksize> -f <filename>
Jon
Sorry, don't got any 75 to 1 manuals.? I've got two 200 to 1 sets and a 150 to 1.??
Good luck in your quest.? If you can find it that's great, or look further for a different set with a manual.? Anyway a lesson how "ephemera" as they call it can be really more valuable that the actual thing,?? Including the model number in any future messages may help.?
Regards, Jim
p.s. Are you near the SF Bay area, maybe I could just give you one of the other sets?? I'm getting to the age of reducing, but not quite to the age of shipping.
