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101090 discussions

Functional programming - Re: NetBSD's i386 support, was Re: [cctalk] Old UNIX Systems

by seefriek＠gmail.com

From: Jason Howe <jason at smbfc.net> > > On Thu, 6 Jun 2013, Toby Thain wrote: > > > On 06/06/13 11:02 PM, Mouse wrote: > >> FP is an important tool, both for the sake of the tasks it _is_ a good > >> fit for and for the sake of the mind expansion learning it produces (in > >> those who do manage to get their heads around it). > > > > It's simple to teach and use. > > > This is a joke, right? > > It really is a different way of thinking that's not easy for some folks to > pick up. I'm interested to hear your your approach which makes > functional programming simple and easy. > It's not completely a joke. I live in that world these days. We've definitely found that folks whose foundation is in procedural languages (or assembly, and I count myself solidly in that crowd) have much more difficulty wrapping our brains around FP paradigms. Not all of them...some folks are just naturals and pick it right up, but it involves letting go of a lot of habits. The insult when I was coming up was "nice, you can write Fortran in C (or Pascal)". Now it's "nice, you can write C in Scheme/Python/Ruby" (and, no, I'm not interested in going down the rabbithole of whether you think Python and Ruby are FP "enough"). However, for folks coming to it fresh(er), and in particular from other disciplines (mathematics, biology, social sciences, etc.) they don't seem to have nearly as hard a time dealing with the abstractions FP brings to problem solving. For these folks, the higher level abstractions map more closely to how they're looking to solve problems, and they're getting remarkable, world impacting results (See: bioinformatics and python). Things I perhaps could, but would not want, to try and solve in C. But I wouldn't want them to write an OS. So....not just right tool for right job, but right mind/approach/adaption for right job. KJ

12 years, 10 months

286/SLT and HDDs

by brain＠jbrain.com

Good news, after dremeling the Dallase RTC and performing minor surgery to add an external coin cell battery, the 286/SLT is not complaining at me on boot. Double bonus, the 21.4MB HDD looks to be operational and boots to DOS Triple bonus, the diag disk I made works, and cleaned up all of the errors from not having a battery for so long. Quadruple bonus, I've temporarily connected a 40GB 2.5" drive, fdisked (to 528MB), formatted, and booted off said drive (regular 3.5" drives suck too much power and just overwhelmed the little PSU in the machine, even newer 160GB eco-models.) So, my questions: Is there any value in keeping the larger drive in the unit? I would like to install Windows 3.1, DOS, some utils, etc., and I don't know if all that will spill out of 21MB or not. If the larger drive is in the unit, what would be suggestions on accessing the rest of the disk? I assume DOS will never see more than 528MB, since I had to tell the BIOS it was a COMPAQ drive type 42, which is 528MB. I thought maybe Windows could see the rest of the space once out of real mode, or maybe using the DOS from Win95 and formatting FAT32 might help. I remember there being drive extenders at some point, but I never used one (thankfully, all of my machines understood LBA). Thoughts appreciated. Permanently replacing the 21MB drive means doing some soldering on the little funky power cable used in the unit, so I'd rather not mess with it unless there is some value to the additional space. Still, regardless, it lives, and research suggests the external KB connector is XT, so I can use this to test an AT->XT converter project I wanted to implement. Jim -- Jim Brain brain at jbrain.com www.jbrain.com

12 years, 10 months

SCSI to IDE (S2I) prototype PCBs have arrived!

by LYNCHAJ＠YAHOO.COM

Hi! Thanks! Sorry for the many delays. I am very behind on projects and appreciate your patience. Here is the latest information on the free/open source SCSI to IDE and SD converter. Thanks to Wayne and other builders, the early prototype is working and can emulate a Seagate ST125N 20MB SCSI-1 hard drive. In theory, the S2I should be able to emulate almost any SCSI-1 device so this is really just a "proof of concept" indicating it can and does work. We are looking for additional builders to participate in the project to help expand the capabilities of the S2I device. Especially those with legacy SCSI-1 machines willing to build and test the S2I board. http://n8vem-sbc.pbworks.com/w/page/62549548/S2I%20Firmware%20Status http://n8vem-sbc.pbworks.com/w/browse/#view=ViewFolder&param=SCSI2IDE There are five (5) of the bare S2I PCBs available. The PCBs are gratis with the understanding the builder will build and test the S2I prototype board. Do you want a bare S2I PCB to build and test a prototype S2I? If so please send me your shipping address. Thanks and have a nice day! Andrew Lynch

12 years, 10 months

FORTH fans rejoice

by michael.99.thompson＠gmail.com

> > From: Al Kossow <aek at bitsavers.org> > Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2013 11:33:55 -0700 > Subject: Re: FORTH fans rejoice > On 6/6/13 11:39 PM, Nigel Williams wrote: > >> On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 6:51 AM, Jason T <silent700 at gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> New scans have been posted at our document archive of the Interactive >>> Computer Systems OmniFORTH manuals, as well as those for its >>> predecessor, fig-FORTH: >>> >> >> Great work! >> >> are you or is anyone tracking down the seminal FORTH implementations >> and creating a repository for preservation? >> >> >> > I'm not signing up for this, but CHM did just get a rather large donation > of > FORTH docs and a couple of the LSI FORTH boxes, to go along with about > three > boxes of docs that I bought at the last west coast VCF. > My introduction to Forth was being a member of the IEEE-1275 Open Firmware committee. I was more than a little surprised at my first meeting when the chairman, Mitch Bradley, started singing the Open Firmware Song<http://www.openfirmware.org/ofwg/misc/ofwsong.au> . -- Michael Thompson

12 years, 10 months

Old - HP 1000 Series Servers RTE - A990, A900, A700, A600, A400 - L, E, M, F servers

by jesse＠cypress-tech.com

Hello, I'm Jesse at Cypress Tech, this is a quick intro... Our company sells HP 1000, 3000, 9000, and Itanium series hardware. If anyone out there is still supporting HP 1000 and needs a supplier of parts, we can help. We have a large volume of HP 1000 parts and servers. below is a link to a site that I set up to HP 1000 series hardware hp1000 (.) us Thank you Jesse Dougherty Cypress Technology Inc jesse at cypress-tech (.) com

12 years, 10 months

Kobo Aura HD

by shadoooo＠gmail.com

Hello. I have an Aura, and I have to say that the display is very good, really better if compared to Kindle PW, or Kobo Glo. And another planet respect the older 800x600 panels. The reader itself is very good for the price, it was a very good choice I think. An a good reason to take it amongs ereaders is the possibility to tweak it very easily (standard linux inside, removable internal microSD to avoid risk of bricking it, easy access to root filesystem, very well supported processor). I'm waiting to see some good application to read PDFs (with row/column mode and text reflow) ported to it. Andrea

12 years, 10 months

odd ball video cables

by sales＠elecplus.com

MD Sisk and Associates 781.837.6198 michael.sisk at verizon.net These guys have VGA to BNC, RCA to BNC, etc. Good people to deal with. Cindy Croxton Electronics Plus 1613 Water Street Kerrville, TX 78028 (830)792-3400 phone (830)792-3404 fax AOL IM elcpls _____ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.3343 / Virus Database: 3184/6390 - Release Date: 06/06/13

12 years, 10 months

a decent selection of easy to learn coding programs, starting with programs for the very young

by sales＠elecplus.com

http://www.nbcnews.com/technology/how-why-teach-your-kids-code-6C10153222?li te <http://www.nbcnews.com/technology/how-why-teach-your-kids-code-6C10153222?l ite&lite=obnetwork> &lite=obnetwork _____ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.3343 / Virus Database: 3184/6390 - Release Date: 06/06/13

12 years, 10 months

HP 9000 A500 system

by a.carlini＠ntlworld.com

There's one of these sitting at work (in the UK, near Reading) awaiting disposal. I've no idea how much interest there would be in something like this. It has an asset tag so I can't just take it, I may have to fill out some paperwork. I already have one but if someone else wants one, let me know in the next day or two (I think it's going out the door next week). AFAIK it's been powered off on the a shelf for the last 5 years at least. I've salvaged the HDD but I'll put that back in if someone is prepared to take the system. I suspect that it would be too heavy to ship (unless you have quite big pockets), and I'm not sure where I'd be able to find any sort of reasonable packaging. Antonio arcarlini at iee.org

12 years, 10 months

several OLD cables available (BC08J-10, etc)

by trash3＠splab.cas.neu.edu

Hi I have six people interested in the cables. Two responded within 30 minutes. The winner is Dave McGuire. I'll contact him as soon as I get some more free time. Thanks, Joe Heck

12 years, 10 months

defective floppy drives for cheap

by sales＠elecplus.com

Qty 50+ defective 5.25" drives, $2.50 plus shipping (1.2MB) Qty 20+ defective 5.25" drives, $3.00 plus shipping (360K) Qty 100+ defective 3.5" drives, $1 plus shipping (no 720K only, all are 1.44MB) Qty 20+ defective dual 5.25" and 3.5" floppy drives, 1.2 and 1.44MB, $3.50 plus shipping Problems range from won't read, won't format, won't eject properly, etc. May be missing bezels. Count on them not being cleaned up! The problems may be as simple as the drives are older than the equip we currently have to test them on, so there may be a mis-match in compatibility. Cindy Croxton Electronics Plus 1613 Water Street Kerrville, TX 78028 (830)792-3400 phone (830)792-3404 fax AOL IM elcpls _____ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.3343 / Virus Database: 3184/6390 - Release Date: 06/06/13

12 years, 10 months

eBook readers (was Re: [cctalk] OLD V NEW (Was: Old UNIX Systems)

by ethan.dicks＠gmail.com

On Tue, Jun 4, 2013 at 9:42 PM, ben <bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca> wrote: > On 6/4/2013 5:36 PM, Liam Proven wrote: >> Mind-expanding stuff, isn't it? > > No. Ebook readers need to be 8x10. Then I could say Mind Expanding. > I could read my PDF's rather than carry around walls of books. Agreed. I am using a 7" e-paper reader for books, but it doesn't quite have enough dots to handle legibly displaying full-sized magazine scans. My requirements aren't onerous - I should be able to view a 2Kx3K image without zoom-in magnification tricks on something I can fit in my coat pocket. I would also like it to cost under $100. WiFi not required, touch screen not required, _color_ not required. I like the e-paper and I really like days between charging the device. I would just like a few more dots to display small text legibly. On the other end of the scale, I'd love an e-paper screen for C-sized (11"x17") drawings I could prop up and refer to while I was repairing DEC equipment. Even if it had a max resolution of 150dpi (though 300dpi would be ideal), it would be useful. -ethan

12 years, 10 months

Available S-100 PCBs

by LYNCHAJ＠YAHOO.COM

Hi! Here is an update on available S-100 board PCBs! I've sent out many of the PCBs and they are almost gone. There are seventeen (17) of the S-100 IDE V2 reorder PCBs and one (1) S-100 LAVA PCB available. http://s100computers.com/My%20System%20Pages/IDE%20Board/My%20IDE%20Card.htm http://s100computers.com/My%20System%20Pages/Lava-10%20Board/LAVA-10%20Board .htm The S-100 PCBs cost the same as before ($20 each).? However due to unforeseen extreme price increases in shipping by USPS I am forced to change shipping costs. Shipping in the US will be $3 for a single PCB and $2 for each additional PCB.? Shipping internationally will be $10 for a single PCB and $3 for each additional PCB.? This is for the bare basics USPS first class postage with no tracking or insurance.? The builder assumes all risk of delivery as per usual arrangement. I apologize for the large price increase on shipping but this is out of my hands.? The USPS is in dire financial trouble and is raising prices on shipping.? It affects us all and is most unfortunate.? These boards are provided "at cost" so there is no margin to absorb any shipping price increases.? I have to pass them along. If you would like one or more S-100 PCBs please send a PayPal to LYNCHAJ at YAHOO.COM Thanks and have a nice day! Andrew Lynch

12 years, 10 months

CP/M on DECmate (was Re: Stuff for rescue in Las Vegas)

by ethan.dicks＠gmail.com

On Tue, Jun 4, 2013 at 9:46 PM, Evan Koblentz <evan at snarc.net> wrote: > Someone contacted me about stuff for sale/rescue in Las Vegas... > >>> DecMate II with CP/M board.... I was just reading about this product last night in the manual for installing an XPU into the DECmate. The XPU has both a Z-80 and an 8086. I have the DECmate, I have the XPU and manual and test disk. What I don't have is any CP/M or DOS disks for it. I can write RX50s and have pre-formatted blanks. Is there anywhere I can go to get disk images for DECmate CP/M and/or DOS? -ethan

12 years, 10 months

several OLD cables available (BC08J-10, etc)

by trash3＠splab.cas.neu.edu

I have a total of 8 BC08 cables, and two SYKES cables. I'm cleaning out. Anybody want them for the postage? Two sets of BC08 cables made up as follows: 3 cables, BMB, BAC and AC1 labels, flipchip external bus cable connector Separate cables: 2 cables, labeled CONN1 and CONN2, also with a 4 and a 5 on them. Two other cables, markings of: SYKES 1005B0154 (on the paddle board) SYKES 1005A0155A (on the cable) one of them also has a label of M1621 IOX2 cable

12 years, 10 months

WANTED: 1970s DEC Catalogs or Price Lists

by bob＠jfcl.com

Can anyone point me to copies (online scanned documents would be fine) of the DEC Systems and Options Catalog pre 1980? Bitsavers has one from 1983, but I need something earlier. Price lists would be OK too - I'm not exactly sure when DEC started publishing the SOC. Thanks, Bob Armstrong

12 years, 10 months

Old C Code Headaches

by wlewisiii＠gmail.com

Lars & Diane: Thank you for the heads up on a.out vs ELF. The executable created by the original port still runs so there is still some support at that point so I'll go see what I can find in the system headers and perhaps I can figure out what I need to do that way. Toby: The reason to use 1.6.2 (or earlier had I been able to) was to get to an earlier version of GCC. 2.95 plays much more nicely with old code (-traditional actually works) unlike newer versions of it. I keep hoping that the various alternatives will catch up but for now it's still GCC. But you're right, I do need to see if I still have a copy of K&R "C" in the basement as it might help jog my memory. Thank you. William -- Live like you will never die, love like you've never been hurt, dance like no-one is watching. Alex White

12 years, 10 months

[cctalk] OLD V NEW (Was: Old UNIX Systems

by alexandre.tabajara＠gmail.com

>> Yeah, good idea. I hesitate to mention my Dell Optiplex 760 > that's going on over 500 days... Running Linux > That's nothing. This *thread* will probably still be running by the time > you retire that system, with no increase in usefulness since it first > started. Alexandre Liked It!

12 years, 10 months

Canon BJ-250 problems

by aliensrcooluk＠yahoo.co.uk

I have been having problems with the printer named in the subject line. It was working fine the other day and stopped halfway through printing something. I changed the ink cartridge, but it still doesn't work. It just beeps a few times after being switched on, with the0green light flashing. Any ideas?

12 years, 10 months

FS Cannon Micro film scanner Kent Wa. 75.00

by g-wright＠att.net

I have one of these that needs a new home. These work like a plain scanner through a PC or can print directly to a Printer. Has SCSI and Parallel ports. Does need a new lamp. Standard projector lamp. Local pick up only Info here. http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/support/office/micrographics/ms_400_500/micro… - Jerry Jerry Wright g-wright at att.net

12 years, 10 months

ancient marine electronics

by bthomas＠brothom.nl

I got this stuff at an auction for 12 euro. It's an Z80 based measuring device and a depth sounder transducer. You can see the pictures here: Although the Z80 based device is on-topic, I am particularly interrested to find out how to use the depth sounder. It has only 2 wires, so I assume it is some sort of element that is both an actuator and a sensor? Has anyone any info on this stuff? The transducer is a lowrance electronics TTH 1192-8.

12 years, 10 months

Old C Code Headaches

by wlewisiii＠gmail.com

So in a fit of insanity, I have a VM running NetBSD 1.6.2 (the earliest I can get to run for me under Virtual Box) that I'm trying to build the old Franz Lisp (from the 4.2BSD days) on. There was a port done by Jeff Dalton back in 1994 to i386 NetBSD .9 so there is a working executable but to get the libraries up to date requires a build. That is exposing a bunch of early '80's code that isn't working too well. Stuff like: lispval Ndumplisp() { register struct exec *workp; register lispval argptr, temp; register char *fname; extern int reborn; struct exec work, old; extern int dmpmode,usehole; extern char etext[], *curhbeg; int descrip, des2, ax,mode; extern int holesize; char tbuf[BUFSIZ]; long count, lseek(); pageseql(); pagsiz = Igtpgsz(); pagrnd = pagsiz - 1; #ifdef __NetBSD__ { /* Round the break up to a multiple of a page size */ int excess; excess = (long)sbrk(0) & pagrnd; if (excess > 0) sbrk(pagsiz - excess); } #endif /* dump mode is kept in decimal (which looks like octal in dmpmode) and is changeable via (sstatus dumpmode n) where n is 413 or 410 base 10 */ if(dmpmode == 413) mode = 0413; else if(dmpmode == 407) mode = 0407; else mode = 0410; workp = &work; workp->a_magic = mode; (and so on for much longer) Those structures aren't right & the workp-> pointers all give major complaints in GCC (dereferencing pointer to incomplete type) and it bombs out. My C is even rustier than I thought so it's driving me nuts trying to remember what's wrong. What I'm hoping is that someone can point me at is a good online reference or tool to old K&R C that I can hopefully restore my memories of what is going wrong in this and the other issues I'm sure will pop up. Thanks! William -- Live like you will never die, love like you've never been hurt, dance like no-one is watching. Alex White

12 years, 10 months

FMS computer

by seefriek＠gmail.com

From: Bert Thomas <bthomas at brothom.nl> > > Hi, > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/bertsfotos/8959539296/ > > This is an "FMS-5/88" computer. It looks like a VME-bus type of card, > but is completely Intel based with an 8088 and 8087. > > Does anyone know whether FMS is a similar to VME-bus? I had never heard > of FMS before. > > It think its brand is "grossenbacher elektronik", a Swiss company I think. > > Regards, > Bert > > > It looks too deep to be VME, at least standard VME. Perhaps deep enough to be Multibus II or VXI, but the interface logic doesn't look right. In all likelihood, though, it's their own thing. I've certainly made the mistake of picking up some odd bit thinking it might be VME only to find it was custom. DIN 41612 connectors got used in all sorts of things, particularly where reliability was a concern. KJ

12 years, 10 months

[cctalk] Old UNIX Systems

by seefriek＠gmail.com

> From: Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com> > > On 06/04/2013 02:01 PM, Ken Seefried wrote: > > From: Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com> > >> One would reasonably think so, but it generally doesn't work out that > > way. > > [rant deleted] > > > > I'm not sure what you are responding to with this, but it's certainly not > > related to what I wrote. > > Actually it was. > Perhaps in the sense that you got to my note and hit 'reply', but a rant about patching embedded systems, out-of-tree development and how everyone in management is stupid doesn't strike me as a reply to NetBSD dropping 803886 support because no one stepped up to take on the task. If that's a direct response, then all I can do is avoid eye contact, back slowly away and repeat "there's still no one, before or after support was dropped, for all the years that anyone could, who's taken on the job of keeping it in the tree, and that's the only reason it doesn't exist". I'm sure you'll find reason to dispute that, but I don't see taking the time to puzzle out the entrails of your inevitable reply for actual meaning. > > P.S. - While I get it's your standard dismissive > > line, > > It certainly isn't; I'd not treat you in that manner. That's why I > explained my point of view. > To be fair, you have a lot of standard dismissive lines: for Windows users, for people who don't much care about what processor their tool works on, for programmers who use a programming language you don't approve of, for management and a cornucopia of other ones. It is hard to keep track, but this is pretty clearly the one for people who you think don't understand embedded systems. We've seen it a lot in this thread. > > > it's a bad assumption that I don't have extensive experience with > > embedded systems and production operations. > > Likewise. > Well, given the frequency you feel the need to remind us, not like I could miss it. And, admittedly, I've not trotted out my experience to bludgeon anyone who disagrees with me. So, how could you possibly not lecture me like a schoolboy. So...point taken. KJ

12 years, 10 months

FMS computer

by bthomas＠brothom.nl

Hi, http://www.flickr.com/photos/bertsfotos/8959539296/ This is an "FMS-5/88" computer. It looks like a VME-bus type of card, but is completely Intel based with an 8088 and 8087. Does anyone know whether FMS is a similar to VME-bus? I had never heard of FMS before. It think its brand is "grossenbacher elektronik", a Swiss company I think. Regards, Bert

12 years, 10 months

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