test-drb

test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

101090 discussions

What Classic Computer are All About - A Lovers View

by sinasohn＠crl.com

At 09:24 PM 7/10/97 -0700, you wrote: >dirt cheap at swap meets and thrift stores and sell it on the internet >for enough profit to break even on the hobby. It was the only way I >could get my wife to tolerate it. (Just in case you're wondering I make I'm the same way, or at least, I would be, if I could bear to part with anything! 8^) >it a point to sell stuff at cost on this discussion because, let's face >it, we're all friends, and I don't like profiting from friends). (No, likewise. If I've got something I don't think is of interest here, I'll put it on the AuctionWeb and let it go for whatever the market will pay. Otherwise, (like the PCjr? carts, which I need to post a message about) I'll just let things go for what they cost me. >Eventually I will HTML-ize it and put it up in a web page for people to I'm working on mine, slowly but surely! --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn(a)crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 8 months

Old Microprocessors

by ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk

In message <33c69abc.15979193(a)smtp.ix.netcom.com> classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu writes: > Some days ago, I mentioned that there was a UK company that used to > advertise old microprocessors like 9900, Z800x, 32032 and other stuff. > > I've just dug up my old issues of Elektor and found the company. It's > Viewcom, at Plaistow in London. > > Perhaps Enrico might want to check if this company still exists and > its tel/fax number: I've been looking for a 10MHz Z8001 (the one found > in Ciarcia's Trump card project in Byte). They're still going. Viewcom Electronics, 77 Upperton Road West Plaistow London E13 9LT England. Retail Shop 139 New City Road Plaistow London E13 9PX England Telephone : 0181-471-9338 Fax : 0181-552-0946 I've dealt with them, and had no problems. If you intend to collect your order, 'phone first, and they'll sort the bits out for you. > > The April 1991 issue of Elektor advertises Viewcom as carrying stuff > like the 9900, 9995 (both TI 16-bit microP). There's even the AMD 9511 The TMS9995 is still listed at \pounds 69.85 (OUCH!) Z8001B is \pounds 11.96, Z08001-10PSC is \pounds 16.90. The other devices you mentioned are no longer listed, alas. > which (if I'm not mistaken) is one of the first math copros for > microcomputers. Indeed it is. I have a CCS 8711 card for the Apple ][ that uses this chip. > Ben -tony

28 years, 8 months

Datamaster troubles

by rcini＠msn.com

My Datamaster Troubles... Well, I'm reviving my Datamaster. Last year, it worked fine (I at least could get into Basic). This year, I can't even get it to boot. I have no manuals for the darned thing, so I have no idea what the numbers on the screen during the POST mean. I have one reverse-highlighted number: "09" and I'm assuming that this is a hardware failure code. I have the "Diagnostic" diskette, but since I think that the floppies are not working (or the diskette is now bad), it's useless. I've done the usual things like cleaning and reseating boards and cables, with no effect. Any clues?? ------------------------ Rich Cini/WUGNET - ClubWin Charter Member (6) - MCPS Windows 95/Networking

28 years, 8 months

What Classic Computer are All About - A Lovers View

by ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk

In message <Pine.SOL.3.95.970710235812.10063G-100000@typhoon> classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu writes: > > Enough of this blathing...anyway, you got my idea. I buy them for > > quality even they're outragously outdated. The newer ones even Compaq > > and Toshibas, Sony is now showing QC problems and sunk down as well. > > Recently a association already issued several critations warning > > buyers not to buy certain models from them. > > Boy - DO NOT get me started on THIS subject! Nor me. One of the reasons I use classics is that they're so well made and so reliable. A few weeks back I mentioned at a computer club that a new hard disk that I'd run for less than 25 _hours_ was already giving me trouble but that a 25 _year_ old minicomputer on the same desk was still going strong. > That is a given. 8 bitters rule. Even 16 bitters rule. Tho I do have > some 4 bitters - they don't rule - they just barely survive 8-) Err, don't forget the HP Saturn, which is used in almost all their calculators (including the HP48). That's a 4-bit machine at the hardware level (and sort-of 64 bit at the software level - strange chip). And I've found 4 bit microcontrollers in keyboards, 1-line displays, disk drives (not the controllers - but handling the stepper motor, drive ready, that sort of thing), and probably more besides. > There are probably more 8 bit MPU and CPU's in existance now than > Intel CPU's. They are EVERYWHERE. Kind of like Candid Camera. Where Don't forget the Microchip PIC (which has an 8-bit ALU and 12 or 14 bit instructions). Those turn up in just about anything nowadays. There's even one in my Laserprinter.... > you least expect it. Cars, phones, thermostats, elevators, games, man TV's, VCR's, CD players, monitors, IR remote handsets, toys, etc... > you name it - SOMEONE put a 6502/8085/6809 into it! Or an 8048, 8051, ST6, PIC, COP4, COP8, 7810, or something custom. > BC -tony

28 years, 8 months

FAQ addition: Repairing Capacitive Keyboards

by ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk

In message <51194C00BD39CF11839000805F385DB20578947C(a)RED-65-MSG.dns.microsoft.com> classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu writes: > REPAIRING CAPACITIVE KEYBOARDS > v1.0 7/10/97 Kai Kaltenbach > > ---> What are capacitive keyboards? > > The vast majority of capacitive keyboards were and are manufactured by > Keytronics of Spokane, Washington. The mechanism is really quite > simple. A keypress pushes a foil circle onto the surface of a printed Note that the foil (actually a metal layer) is on the inside surface of a plastic disk on the end of the key plunger. It doesn't actually make contact with the PCB > circuit board, thus completing the circuit and registering the keypress More correctly it increases the capacitance between 2 tracks on the PCB. > to the computer. Capacitive keyboards are very reliable; however, they > will fail over time even if unused. > > Each foil contact circle is backed by a cylinder of PVC foam. The foam > is subject to environmental deterioration. Once the foam loses its > elasticity or dissolves entirely, the keys will stop working because the > foil circles will no longer make good contact with the PC board. > Various classic computer systems, such as the Processor Technology Sol, > exhibit this problem after their 20+ year lifespan. I've once seen a fault where the metal layer vanished, leaving the foam intact. No idea what happened, but it didn't work, of course. > > ---> How do I tell if I have a capacitive keyboard? > > Just remove a key cap -- if there is a separate spring under the key > cap, around the plunger, it's extremely likely that it's a capacitive > keyboard. They won't always say Keytronic on the outside of the > keyboard housing. These keyboards are _everywhere_. I've seen them 'made' by PERQ, Apricot, Acorn, Tektronix, FTS, and probably more. The only problem is that some of those are classics in themselves, and probably shouldn't be raided for spares. > > ---> What do I need to start a repair job? > > First you need a set of replacement foam pads. Each foam pad is a > cylinder about 1/4" in diameter and 3/16" long. There is a semi-rigid > clear plastic circle attached to one end of the pad, and a foil cylinder > attached to the other end. > > The only toosl you'll need are a #1 Philips screwdriver and a very small > standard screwdriver such as those pen-clip types frequently included in Every Keytronics keyboard I've dismantled has needed a smaller Phillips screwdriver (size O?) to remove the PCB from the keyframe. > computer tool kits (plus whatever tools are necessary to remove the > keyboard from its enclosure). > > ---> Where do I get replacement pads? > > If you're a perfectionist, you can order replacement pads from Keytronic > Corporation (http://www.keytronic.com/). However, it's much easier to Seriously? Do they do other spares as well. There's a couple of custom chips (see below) in almost all of these keyboards, and a source of spares would be handy. > simply find a capacitive keyboard in your local computer junk/surplus > store and strip it for replacement pads (see above for info on > identifying such keyboards). -----> So, What are the Custom Chips ? There are, in general 2 off 20 pin custom chips in a keytronics keyboard (some later ones have a single 40 pin chip, but I know nothing about that). 22-908-3B 8-channel sense amplifier 1 : Row 0 2 : Row 1 3 : Row 2 4 : Row 3 5 : Reset/sync output 6 : Row 4 7 : Row 5 8 : Row 6 9 : Row 7 10 : Ground 11 : Out 7 12 : Out 6 13 : Out 5 14 : Out 4 15 : Out 3 16 : Out 2 17 : Out 1 18 : Out 0 19 : Reset in 20 : +5V Outputs are believed to be open-collector 22-950-3B keyboard column decoder/driver. 1 : Col 8 2 : Col 9 3 : Col 10 4 : Col 11 5 : Latch Clock 6 : Select 0 (LSB Input) 7 : Select 1 8 : Select 2 9 : Select 3 10 : Ground 11 : Sync Input 12 : Col 0 13 : Col 1 14 : Col 2 15 : Col 3 16 : Col 4 17 : Col 5 18 : Col 6 19 : Col 7 20 : +5V -tony

28 years, 8 months

What Classic Computer are All About - A Lovers View

by ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk

In message <Pine.SOL.3.95.970710232706.10063D-100000@typhoon> classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu writes: > > of the old machines. I collect, but I admit is has to make some sense to > > me as in useful or have some specific linkage to my place in this > > history. > > But this is a collectors list 8-) We all collect from that which we know. Not necessarily. I've bought things at radio rallies (hamfests) because 'it looked interesting'. Only later did I discover what I really had. If I'd always waited to find out what a particular item really was, then I'd probably have missed all the interesting stuff, and have a totally trivial collection. However, it does help to have some idea as to what things are. And to know what they look like from all angles :-) > You must have been - what - 8 years old 8-) Great story! I think we all > have one of those - where everybody kinda stares at you - wondering - > What the Hell is THAT? What are you doing with that - THING? Yep, got a load of them. Taking a trolley piled high with computer parts across Cambridge on a weekday afternoon is good for that :-). Or the time I carried a DEC Rainbow on a train - VR201 in one hand (using the built-in handle), CPU under the other arm, and keyboard in my pocket. Dismantling the CPU mid-journey (it needs no tools) added to the amusement. Then there was the time I carried an IBM PC/AT box on a train. It got the comment 'That's one hell of a laptop' :-). Or the time I was carrying a Creed 7E (baudot printing terminal) and was asked if I had a pen. My reply was 'no, but I have a teleprinter' :-) Still, what's wrong with being slightly mad? > > BC > > -tony

28 years, 8 months

What Classic Computer are All About - A Lovers View

by ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk

In message <Pine.SOL.3.95.970710191732.26431A-100000@typhoon> classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu writes: > > First - if you don't want to hear my opinion - stop now! I am going to > get pretty detailed about what the list is/should be about. I may hurt > some feelings - but well hell - that's life! Is it time to start a classic computers meta-list to discuss what should be on the classic computers list ? > Currently, this list is set on the aquistion of hardware. One reason > is to get it before it's GONE. Another, is the ECONOMY of collecting. > (I buy it for 10 and sell it for 15 Sam 8-) The point being, in two > years, if we did nothing - you may NEVER be able to buy it because > someone junked it! Nothing wrong with making hay while the sun shines. Absolutely. In some cases, the number of remaining machines of a particular type can be counted on the fingers of one hand - in unary :-). If we don't grab them when we can, then information on these machines will be lost for ever. > > The history of computing doesn't lend itself to the IMMEDIACY of hardware. > The history of computing IS. There is no cost in learning it, > understanding it, and aquiring it. I think I disagree here. It's a lot easier to figure out the history of a machine while the people who used it for real work (and even better the people who designed/built it) are still alive, and can still remember the machine. So there's some urgency here, but less than the 'Here's a 1-off prototype that will go in the skip if you don't get it today' type of thing. A lot of computer history, particularly over the last 20 or so years has not (IMHO) been adequately recorded. What I'd love to see would be complete documentation on all the classic computers - how the hardware worked, how the software worked, when it was introduced, why it was introduced, what went wrong, what should have been done differently, what was good about it, etc. But to do that for just _one_ machine would be a major undertaking (I've tried writing some hardware docs, and it takes a long time!). But some of that info is likely to die with the _designers_, not with the machines, alas. > I would probably die if someone wanted to give me the Intellec MDS that > Gary wrote CPM on. That is too much to hope for in this world 8-) Aside : It's probably possible to find a similar machine (although not _THE_ one) if you hunt for long enough. I've found an CS8i and an MDS800 second-hand. > I also get a little perturbed when people state "This Weekends Haul". The main reason I get little from these messages is that the situation is very different in different countries (Acorn machines are lot easier to find in the UK than in the States, while CoCo3's are almost unknown over here). And of coure prices are very different as well. > BC -tony

28 years, 8 months

Modem Collection

by ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk

In message <33C673A3.6EA5(a)rain.org> classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu writes: > Just curious (again!) if anyone is collecting the early modems used on > computers and what might have been the earliest commercial phone modem. I've got a few (I'm interested in telegraph and telephone history as well as computers, but my main collection is computer-related). It's not a large part of my collection, though. In the UK, modems were _rented_ from the GPO (== post office, who also ran the telephone system) at one time, like all other telephone equipment. Some of these modems are interesting technically - the earlier ones were about 14" square and 6" high, and contained plug-in modules for the PSU, modulator, demodulator, and controller. It was all discrete components (no chips), and some of the control used PO 3000-style relays (similar to the ones used in telephone exchanges). The demodulator was strange. It filtered the incoming signal (a multi-stage LC filter housed in a tobacco-tin sized box!), and then mixed it with a local oscillator to shift the frequency up. The output of that was filtered again, and fed to a 2-diode discriminator. The output of that was buffered and became the data output. It was basically a superhet FM receiver modified to work at the right frequency. Another strange GPO modem was the 13A. It's a 1" (approx) high plinth that was fitted under a Type 746 'phone that had extra 'voice' and 'data' buttons fitted. I know nothing about the circuitry in that one, but it's a rather neat unit. There were also things called 'isolation boxes' that were used to prevent faults in the user's equipment damaging the modem (or worse still the 'phone line). Typically they contained a number of zener diodes from each line of the RS232 connector to ground (2 diodes in inverse series per line), and some 50mA fuses in series with each line that would blow if there was overvoltage on that line. Such things are probably useless now, but I like to have all the bits of a classic setup, including little details such as this. > I have several devices that are called modem eliminators and I believe The term 'modem eliminator' normally meant 'null modem cable', and was a passive device. -tony

28 years, 8 months

History of Video Games (RE: "Bally Astrocade")

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

Yep, that was Cinematronic's excellent vector version of Space War, released in 1978. It was two-player only, and had several innovations, including the ability to shoot off part of your opponent's ship, and the selection of multiple game options at the start of your game (e.g. positive/negative gravity, invisible sun, etc.) The upright cabinet was huge, almost double-wide, but I would dearly love to come up with the cocktail version (http://brain.usask.ca/arcade/spacewar.htm) It'd be a nice complement to my Computer Space. Kai > ---------- > From: Ward Griffiths and/or Lisa Rogers > Reply To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu > Sent: Friday, July 11, 1997 11:05 AM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: History of Video Games (RE: "Bally Astrocade") > > On Fri, 11 Jul 1997, Kai Kaltenbach wrote: > > > Studio II, which were introduced simultaneously in 1976. The first > > vector graphic arcade game was Lunar Lander in 1979, followed by > > Asteroids later that year. The first (and only) vector graphic home > > I seem to recall spending many many hours (and quarters) with my > roommate > playing a vector graphic arcade version of Space War when we were > fresh > out of the USAF back in 1978 and spending loose hours at the Saint > James > Infirmary in Sunnyvale. > -- > Ward Griffiths > "America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within > the system, but too early to shoot the bastards." --Claire Wolfe >

28 years, 8 months

Modem Collection

by fmc＠reanimators.org

Marvin <marvin(a)rain.org> writes: > Just curious (again!) if anyone is collecting the early modems used on > computers and what might have been the earliest commercial phone modem. I have a few, but not what I would call "early". An old Omnitec 701A (s/n 3) acoustic coupler that I used to use with a Teletype ca. 1978 (still worked when I tried it about a year ago, too). Also some S-100 modems, including a couple each of PMMI MM-103 and Hayes Micromodem 100, and what I am guessing is an earlier (1978) effort by D. C. Hayes called the 80-103A. > I have several devices that are called modem eliminators and I believe > these are basically serial cable boosters to increase the permissible > cable length. It depends. They may also provide clock signals for synchronous DTEs (as would ordinarily be done by the modems). -Frank McConnell

28 years, 8 months

Old Microprocessors

by bluesky6＠ix.netcom.com

Some days ago, I mentioned that there was a UK company that used to advertise old microprocessors like 9900, Z800x, 32032 and other stuff. I've just dug up my old issues of Elektor and found the company. It's Viewcom, at Plaistow in London. Perhaps Enrico might want to check if this company still exists and its tel/fax number: I've been looking for a 10MHz Z8001 (the one found in Ciarcia's Trump card project in Byte). The April 1991 issue of Elektor advertises Viewcom as carrying stuff like the 9900, 9995 (both TI 16-bit microP). There's even the AMD 9511 which (if I'm not mistaken) is one of the first math copros for microcomputers. Interestingly, there's another ad. for a little machine called the midi65, which uses a 6501 (the number was re-used by Rockwell for a dual-65C02-on-a-chip implementation) with LCD display. Of course, then there are the usual surplus ads from Display Electronics (VAX11/750 for 3900 pounds sterling and the Tatung PC2000 a big brother of the CP/M Einstein for 299 pounds sterling) and J&N BULL Electrical (which offers an Atari 65XE computer for 45 pounds sterling). Ben

28 years, 8 months

IBM minis still humming

by william＠ans.net

Yesterday, I finally received the chance to examine a family of computers that has been bugging me for a while. In the mid to late 1970s, IBM introduced a family of minis designed to kill the PDP-11, or so they thought. The series/1 is a bit different, in that they are not designed to run COBOL applications in a business environment. They are also very modular, something that other IBM offerings are not. I saw about 25 of the big beasts, all humming away at thier duties, and of course, now want one (love at first sight, it happens alot with collectors). Unfortunately, I am still lacking just about all technical information about the family. Has anyone on the list ever use one of these things? What operating system did it use? Just how good (or bad, probably) are these things? Oh, sorry about repeating the modem information! William Donzelli william(a)ans.net

28 years, 8 months

Paper Tape

by 107765.1161＠compuserve.com

As most of you probably know, some of the old printing terminal (teletype) units could utilize paper tape; the tape could be punched with a program, and hence used as a program storage media. I'd be interested in getting a bit of the tape; not real long (say, 4-6 feet), just for show-and-tell purposes. "Already punched" would be better than "unpunched" ("unpunched" might just look like a roll of adding machine paper-- big deal), but I'd take either. If somebody has some of this to spare, please drop me a note e-mail; I'd appreciate it. Gil Parrish 107765.1161(a)compuserve.com

28 years, 8 months

Modem Collection

by allisonp＠world.std.com

> From: Marvin <marvin(a)rain.org> > Just curious (again!) if anyone is collecting the early modems used on > computers and what might have been the earliest commercial phone modem. > I have several devices that are called modem eliminators and I believe > these are basically serial cable boosters to increase the permissible > cable length. My guess is that the earliest modems were accousticle > (sp?) modems where the coupling was where the phone was laid onto the > modem rather than a direct connect to the computer. Was there anythin > earlier or other type of device? Early modems were mostly acoustical as it was a way of avoiding the BELL TELEPHONE CO tarriff and interconnection restrictions. There were also direct connect bell103 is well known of them. They go way back, to the old rtty machines used during WWII maybe before. Yes, those would have vacuum tubes. The modem eliminators were rs232 or current loop to rs422 which could be used up to several thousand feet or more. These were not modems per se but level translators to a format that worked well on hard copper pairs at what would be then called high speeds (4800 ->38.4++). Allison

28 years, 8 months

"Bally Astrocade"

by manney＠nwohio.com

Speaking of video games, I have 2 different sources which say that the first video game was 1)Pong 2) Asteroids. I personally believe asteroids, as the game (in my recollectopn, at least) used vector graphics, which should be faster and simpler than Pong's raster image. ...Or am I all wet? Anyone know? (Trivia -- What does "Pac" in Pac-man stand for? answer on request.)

28 years, 8 months

History of Video Games (RE: "Bally Astrocade")

by jscarter＠worldnet.att.net

At 05:06 PM 7/11/97 +0000, you wrote: >Neither - The first arcade videogame was Nutting & Associates Computer >Space, designed by Nolan Bushnell in 1971, who later designed Pong >(1972) with the profits, and founded Atari. The first home videogame >was the Magnavox Odyssey 100, in 1972. The first ROM cartridge-based >home video game title is co-owned by the Fairchild Channel F and the RCA >Studio II, which were introduced simultaneously in 1976. The first >vector graphic arcade game was Lunar Lander in 1979, followed by >Asteroids later that year. The first (and only) vector graphic home >video game was the GCE/Milton Bradley Vectrex in 1982. > >Kai IIRC, Odyssey 100 was a simple pong unit. The one you're refering to was just "Odyssey." James jscarter(a)worldnet.att.net

28 years, 8 months

farewell and COCO question and Definicon stuff and simpson meter.

by KFergason＠aol.com

In a message dated 97-07-11 10:29:07 EDT, you write: << On the contrary, I think that people are unsubscribing because in this mailing list about collecting Classic icons there is NOT ENOUGH discussion about the history of the computing boom and the hows and whys that led to it. >> I am sorry, but I was not aware that this list was about collecting classic computers. I thought this list was about classic computers, of which collecting is a part. I am not interested (well, not as much) in the "hows and whys". I want to find them, use them, fix them. I don't really collect them simply to collect. You might argue that I had to collect one to use it, but thats not necessarily the case. I could have bought my Kaypro new and simply still be using it. If this list IS about COLLECTING, then I will unsubscribe myself as well. On something more hardware related, I have a Radio Shack TRS-80 Color Computer Controller, Cat. No 26-3129. I am assuming it is a disk controller, but can someone give me some confirmation on that? Also, if someone still needs the definicon board stuff, I finally got my PC back together, so I can read the 5.25" disks. And while I am babbling, not really classic computer, but classic test equipment related, I have a Simpson 303 that I have never been able to get to work. It seems to need the battery, and it is a rechargeable model. Kelly

28 years, 8 months

Panasonic HandHeld Update and FINAL COUNT!

by manney＠nwohio.com

Please reserve 2 handhelds for me -- thanks. Manney(a)nwohio.com

28 years, 8 months

What Classic Computer are All About - A Lovers View

by thedm＠sunflower.com

Actually, I collect for the sake of collecting, I make no money off it, ask my wife :) I collect so in 10 more years, I can play with toys I played with 20 years ago. That and to watch everyone freak when they see my dinosaurs alive and feeding on a daily basis. On a subnote, you all are intelligent people, but man, I think some folks need to lighten up and enjoy the water. But I guess, one part of me just can't relate to, is the "cost of downloading" mail, but I suppose there are situations where that is a problem, me, I have a cablemodem, so im spoiled rotten. As far as knowing what we all have, maybe we should add to our rescue list, a non fancy, listing of what everyone has, not for trading, but just as a reference. Then when I'm at my next flea market...etc. I can say, "Hey, I know John dosn't have a Coco1, maybe he'd like one, it's 2 bucks, Heck, I just grab it." Cya in the funny papers. Bill G. ---------- > From: Brett <danjo(a)xnet.com> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: What Classic Computer are All About - A Lovers View > Date: Thursday, July 10, 1997 8:34 PM > > > First - if you don't want to hear my opinion - stop now! I am going to > get pretty detailed about what the list is/should be about. I may hurt > some feelings - but well hell - that's life! > > First from Enrico - > > > On the contrary, I think that people are unsubscribing because in this > > mailing list about collecting Classic icons there is NOT ENOUGH > > discussion about the history of the computing boom and the hows and > > whys that led to it. To just limit the discussion to the mere hardware > > is narrow minded and shows the kind of attitude which leads to consider > > "the other" (the one which begs to differ) as an enemy or at least as > > an intruder. The "dont' bother us as we know what we should be talking > > about" attitude might be legal and understandable but is it wise? > > No it is NOT wise! However - it is *as you said* understandable. Each > person is a collection of feelings and memories, sometimes refered to > as a *pile of the past*. Each of us has had different experiences in > EVERYTHING we do. No two people view life the EXACT same way. > > Currently, this list is set on the aquistion of hardware. One reason > is to get it before it's GONE. Another, is the ECONOMY of collecting. > (I buy it for 10 and sell it for 15 Sam 8-) The point being, in two > years, if we did nothing - you may NEVER be able to buy it because > someone junked it! Nothing wrong with making hay while the sun shines. > > The history of computing doesn't lend itself to the IMMEDIACY of hardware. > The history of computing IS. There is no cost in learning it, > understanding it, and aquiring it. > > Now, if everybody on the list had an Apple, an Amiga, an Altair, an Imsai, > a DEC 11/24, an IBM 360, two Commodore 64s, a BBC, etc,etc,etc THEN we > might sit down and discuss the history. We can discuss it now - but I > would rather be gathering all the hardware I can get my hands on NOW and > think about the history. > > I would probably die if someone wanted to give me the Intellec MDS that > Gary wrote CPM on. That is too much to hope for in this world 8-) > > > As already said here several times, computers are bits of metal and > > plastic. They are important for the sentiments and the feelings they > > managed to raise in each and everybody (and soul) of us. You keep your > > hardware (and I will keep mine so that I can leave it to future > > generations) but I will keep my principles and if this will mean I > > will have to do without you, then (I will be sorry but) be it. > > As said before, we are all different. I will gladly discuss the history > of computing. However, if I stray from why I think Turing was a genius > to WOW I JUST GOT MY RL02 TO BOOT MY 11/23 - you will have to forgive me. > I'm just that kind of guy. > > On the other hand tho - WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT??? I have seen > the messages from you in the last two weeks and you have not mentioned > *history* at all! You have mentioned the social and psychological impact > of why we collect individual machines - it the same with cars - it the > same with ANY collectable. But it is NOT what I call - History. Nobody > NEEDS a twenty year old computer! Not in the USE sense - they NEED them to > remind them of the good times in the past. That spark of WONDER or GLORY > or FULLFILLMENT they got from that item. The same as ANY collectable. If > you have no sense of wonder or glory or fulfillment - you don't collect > for the sake of collecting - you are collecting for the ECONOMICS of > collecting. > > On Thu, 10 Jul 1997, Kai Kaltenbach wrote: > > > You're absolutely, terribly correct. In our benighted shortsightedness > > we have been ignoring the core, the soul, nay, the very existentialism > > of the historical man-machine interface and the personal hygiene of Gary > > Kildall. These bits of metal and plastic have become a zen-like cyborg > [snipped but saved] > > becoming no more than Waldos while Charles Babbage's heart is ripped > > from his chest by ravens dark as toner, eight claws upon each talon. > > > > Kai > > Beautiful! I have not (except for Bill's bathroom story) been so > wonderfully entertained and amused by posts to the list than this! > You've gone up a notch in my book. > > Glenn Roberts wrote: > > > > I for one certainly support Bill's efforts to keep this list on target. > > Enrico replied > > Yes, agreed, BUT the pint being made here is WHICH is the target? Just > hardware OR history of the machines as well? > > Pint! Oh point 8-( > I think Bill summed it up - go ahead - but don't *expect* anyone to > discuss it with you. The list hasn't been around long enough to develop > a *personality*. (Did I speak to late!?!?) > > The list doesn't HAVE a POINT. But the people on it do. > > We gather here and there in the faint glow of Cathode Ray Tubes connected > throughout the world by the wonder of modern man - The Internet - and > discuss computers that are older than 10 years. Some will never again > be seen as useful. As some say - "They can have my DEC, when they pry it > from my cold dead hands!" Some will use them, some will sell them, some > will lurk in the dark corners, some will boil to the surface with an > explosion of estatic joy and/or humor, some will solder little > thingmajiggies together, some will droll on and on about some favorite > piece of hardware or software, some will leave and others will come. It's > called "community" - the one thing man has over all other animals. It > isn't easy, and it isn't hard. There is give and take. Those who give > constantly will be consumed, Those that only take - will eventually be > bored. > > The problem - currently - is Enrico. You have not either explained what > you want (I certainly don't understand) or what you want isn't here. If > you can explain - in terms we can understand - I am sure that your desires > can be fullfilled by this list as well as Sam's (sorry Sam - I see you as > a hardware mogul - more more more 8-) It is usually best, I have found, to > walk into a group and listen to what is being said. If an opportunity > presents itself, interject a question. (I remember that you did this very > well Enrico) Then if the current discussion recognizes your question, in > a positive way, you should then be permitted to state your case. This did > not happen! You should then wait for another opportunity. There is no > rule that if someone shows interest, you can not start you OWN > conversation. Just don't keep it on the list - take it to EMail. If > something important is discussed in private EMail, by all means, if all > concerned agree - put it on the list. This then becomes more than a > single observation and then the impact upon the group has more weight. > > I also get a little perturbed when people state "This Weekends Haul". > I really don't have the time or inclination to read about all the neat > stuff I DID NOT get. I understand the joy and amazement of those of you > who do make great deals (Sam Grrrrrr....) but it only makes me feel more > or less - left out! I usually get one machine (my biggest haul was 12 > clone motherboards - not even NEAR on topic!) and then gather all the > info I can to get it to work the way it was supposed to. Then every six > months I get antsy and fire them all up - just to make sure - and then > spend another month getting them all to work right again. And two months > paying off the electric bill. BUT - I DO want to know what everybody has! > If I need help - I will know who to go to! Right now - I just fire out a > question and get the responses. That is because this is a community. > > Things to remember - every community has a town drunk, a town clown, > a town cop, and a town fool. It wouldn'tbe a community without them. > > BC

28 years, 8 months

What Classic Computer are All About - A Lovers View

by allisonp＠world.std.com

28 years, 8 months

What Classic Computer are All About - A Lovers View

by rcini＠msn.com

Allison: >>Seriously I've put may posts here anout the history and lineages of many of the old machines. I collect, but I admit is has to make some sense to me as in useful or have some specific linkage to my place in this >>history. This is so true. In fact, this is how I started collecting. Admittedly, I don't remember many of the early computers; I was too young to remember any of it first-hand. When the Altair came out, I was 8; Bill Gates was 20. I only got to "know" Gary Kildall and Ed Roberts through the books that I read as background for my MBA business case on Microsoft and the computer software industry. Back then, I used the Commodores. In high school, I used {shudder} the Mac (and understood that better). In college, I used PCs, but didn't understand the architecture. I started collecting Commodores because this is the machine that I grew-up on. Then, it snowballed. The Tandy Model 1; Model 100; Datamaster; Apple IIs. Now, almost anything. Since I'm behind the knowledge power curve, I have a lot of catching-up to do! I love hearing about other people's hauls. It inspires me. It makes me want to take back more room in the basement than what was alotted to me by "the boss." It's about the elegant simplicity of design; the basic, nuts-and-bolts usefulness. It's about runnung an OS and an application in 4k of RAM. It's all about preserving the early computer history, so that people like me, people on the fringes of early computers, people who know nothing about where their P233 came from, can see what it was like in the stone-age of computing. Just my $0.02. ------------------------------------------------- Rich Cini/WUGNET e-mail: rcini(a)msn.com - ClubWin Charter Member (6) - MCPS Windows 95/Netowrking

28 years, 8 months

classic software for sale

by manney＠nwohio.com

Please send me a pricelist. Also, where (physically) are you? I'm in northern Ohio. Thx Manney

28 years, 8 months

c16/Plus4

by 107765.1161＠compuserve.com

Message text written by INTERNET:classiccmp@u.washington.edu >User support here was either through PLUG (Plus/4 Users Group), or Jim Hehl in Anchorage. Plug provided a list of European distributors and Jim was into program conversion (Such popular 64 programs like Speedscript were converted).< Has anybody heard from Jim Hehl recently? Last I heard, he was burned out of his cabin by an Alaskan wildfire! That was probably 1-2 years ago now. Does he still produce for Jack Vanderwhite's publication? >The major bummer about European Plus/4 stuff is alot of it is compressed and locked into PAL mode and thus unviewable on NTSC displays. (Jim & Jack Vandewrwhite had converted some though, I think they are available on funet.fi's FTP., I think the series is called 'ceepee4' something...)< If this stuff is available somewhere, I'd be interested in a full address. Gil Parrish <

28 years, 8 months

HHC

by 107765.1161＠compuserve.com

Message text written by INTERNET:classiccmp@u.washington.edu >Remember, there are 400 of these HHCs available. Tell a friend!< Sorry, I just got here. What the heck are you talking about?

28 years, 8 months

C65 and other commie oddballs...

by more＠camlaw.rutgers.edu

OK OK I can't take it anymore... Being partial to commodores, I can't help but DESIRE to own a C65! Anyone got one? Or better yet, anyone got one they'd sell???? On a side note, I was re-reading a review of the Amiga 4000 and the article mentioned a commodore palmtop that was based on a "PC/CHIP" cpu, had 2 megs of memory and ran Microsoft Works or somehting like that (Oh yeah, it had 2 PCMCIA slots too) I know this (probably) never made it to production but I also know that many a freaky contraption was hauled from the dumpsters when commodore went belly up... (C65's, 128 Laptops, etc.) So, anyone got any oddball commie stuff? LeS more(a)crazy.rutgers.edu PS I missed the supposed free-for-all that took place outside the commodore building in West Chester when they folded. I was just there not too long ago; apparently QVC has gutted the building.... :(

28 years, 8 months

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