Tony Duell <ard(a)odin.phy.bris.ac.uk> wrote:
> > Sounds like HP-IB all right. Note that not all 7970s are.
>
> It's a fairly safe bet IMHO that anything HP after about 1975 with that
> connector is HPIB. There are probably exceptions, but I've not come across
> many (any?)
Any time I've seen that connector on HP gear it was for HP-IB. And
the 7970s that aren't HP-IB don't have that connector. Instead I
think they have a card-edge connector or something to mate with a
card-edge connector (on the end of a long cable that you're supposed
to drag back to the interface in the CPU cabinet).
The 7970 is not a new drive; HP made and sold them for a number of
years. The first HP 3000 I ever saw (a series II) had one, and that
was in 1977. I'm pretty sure there was some way to hook it up to a
2100 (stand-alone, or in an instrument controller or 1000/2000
configuration) as well.
The HP 3000 series II and series III did not use HP-IB. The first
HP-IB 3000s were the series 30 and 33. When HP started shipping new
HP-IB peripherals that were bigger/better/faster[1] they also had the
"Starfish" for the series III. That was a small card cage mounted in
its own 19" cabinet, reportedly due to UL certification requirements,
which provided a GIC (General I/O Channel aka HP-IB interface) and
somehow interfaced it to the series III.
At a previous place of employment, we had a series III when I started.
It eventually (1984) got upgraded to (box swapped for) a series 64,
which supported HP-IB somewhat more directly. We had had a Starfish
on the III, but had only used it for a 7933 disc -- the 7970E tape
drives were hooked up to a MAGNETIC TAPE INTERFACE card in the III.
Part of the upgrade was the removal of some interface electronics from
the bottom of the "master" 7970E and its replacement with some new
interface electronics that spoke HP-IB. There was a similar
replacement for the 7925 disc drive too.
> BTW, what's the correct name for that series of connectors? We tend to
> call them 'Amphenol Connectors' in the UK (while realising that Amphenol
> make a wide range of different connectors). I've also seen them called
> 'Centronics Connectors' (after the common use for the 36 pin one I guess),
> IEEE (or IEEE-488) connectors (after the common use for the 24 pin one)
> and 'Telco Connectors'. I think the last is what HP call them.
Doggone if I know. We always called them HP-IB connectors. So did
the HP CEs. We were pretty much a 3000 shop with not much non-HP
equipment outside of the modems and furniture, certainly nothing else
that tried to use that connector. Well, we did for a while have a
Univac 1004 RJE station, but we never tried to plug it into the 3000
and I can't remember ever trying to do much with it other than feed it
paper when it ran out.
-Frank McConnell
[1] the ones I am thinking of are the 7933 disc drive (404MB washing
machine), 7976A tape drive (6250BPI 9-track, streaming and
start-stop, OEM'd from someone else (STC I think)), and 2680A laser
printer; I think these were the only peripherals supported for
connection via Starfish
<Yes, I'd realised that. I was planning on making a circuit that triggered
<off the index pulse and recorded 'bursts' of (say) 250kHz pulses on the
<disk. A bit of logic would let me record a track offset towards the edge
<of the disk, twiddle the micrometer to move the head to the same offset
<towards the spindle and then record bursts between the ones I'd just put
<down. Now align the target drive so that both types of burst are replayed
<at the same amplitude.
doesn't work, you need the narrower write head. What you will see is
the additive components of the signals where the head overlaps the tracks.
The can be the sum or the signals, if not in sync there will also be
differences due the phases at a given instant. Also do not discount the
effects of the tunnel erase portion of the head slicing off the adjacent
offset tracks.
<The older SA800's used entirely standard logic, so it's not worth taking
<parts from an old one. SA850's used custom chips in the read/write
<circuit, and later SA800's (according to my service manual) used one big
<custom chip :-(. I guess then you have to get spares from old drives.
Sometimes it's easier to swap a known board that troubleshoot.
<Getting _new_ 8" drives is next-to-impossible, and if you use a
True but, there are used and then there are USED. The later being one thats
seen umpty years of 24x7.
<The less said about that SA400 the better....
Yep!
Allison
Doug Spence, please e-mail me so I have your current e-mail address. I
tried e-mailing you the images of the Apple3 system disks and it bounced.
If anyone else wants ShrinkIt archives of the Apple /// system disks let
me know and I'll e-mail them off to you. You'll need an Apple that can
run ShrinkIt (//e, //c, //gs, ???) and a copy of ShrinkIt (can be found
on the net, public domain AFAIK) to transfer them to 5.25" floppies.
Sam
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass
<> I knew about that too, Those disks is too far expensive for few fixes
<> run to pay off in due time. :)
<
<It's not that bad. You only need 4 disks total - one of each size. They're
<no more expensive than the other test gear you really should have.
<
<If somebody could find a UK source of 8" alignment disks then I'd buy one
<_now!_
Dec diagnostic disks that havent been rewritten are generally very close to
nominal alignment.
<I was planning on removing the pin altogether and letting the head
<carriage move freely over the leadscrew. Then fit a micrometer head and a
<spring to pull the head assy agains the end of the micrometer. I should be
<able to get about 1" of calibrated head movement.
While you can do this there is one problem. Alignment disks are recorded
with a narrower than normal trackwdith and also stagger tracks (recorded
with offset either side of true) for alignment use.
Another tool you need is a source of 125/250/500khz pulses that conform to
FM timing (single density) for writing patterns. This is something you can
build out a handful of counters and a 4mhz clock osc.
Over the years I've found that if the drive needs alignment it's wise to
look for other problems like spindle and motor bearings that are tired
or head to actuator wear that will make for sloppy operation. Head
alignment can signal other problems. I retired a SA800 for spindle
bearings because the thing would not reliably read (had a new in the box
spare). Generally I've found that it's best to put aside those drives in
favor of a better one stealing the logic from it as needed. The only time I
would fix it is when there is really no other choice. Unless doing a museum
style restore I've found some drives are better dumped (sa400s in general)
in favor of other better drives of the era.
Allison
> I can get lots of TI 99 items, tell what you are looking for ??
Thanks, John. I am looking for:
Cartridges (I have none), preferably not of arcade-style games unless
particularly significant
Manuals, in particular pinout and levels of video port so that I can
connect a monitor of some description...
Also, details of what sort of joystick I need to connect...
Philip.
Message text written by INTERNET:classiccmp@u.washington.edu
>A TI-99/4A (works) with RF Modulator, Joysticks, and 20 cartridges... $5.<
Were you soliciting information on the TI?
The joysticks aren't Atari-standard, so you're lucky those were in the
package. Cartridge-wise, look through your haul particularly for Extended
BASIC, Disk Manager II and Terminal Emulator II. The first is critical if
you even get an Peripheral Expansion Box ("PEB"); the second is helpful if
you get a PEB. The third is useful if you ever get the voice synthesizer
(or of course, if you want to try a modem). If you have an Adventure
cartridge, it won't do you much good unless you also got the accompanying
tape.
>Tho this isn't perfectly legit, I also picked up a Sony AC/DC (with 3
types
of DC!) 5" color TV, which I plan to use as a monitor / portable monitor
for one (or more) of my CoCo's. (The TI didn't like it... :-( <
No clue on why . . . .
>Question: One of the cartridges has a triangular picture-hanger rivited to
the case... would this be some sort of store demo or something?<
No way of telling, short of inserting it and seeing what pops up.
Gil Parrish
107765.1161(a)compuserve.com
Isaac Davis <indavis(a)juno.com> wrote:
> On the discussion of classic computers, does anyone have some Analog
> magazines from the 86-87 time frame. I am trying to follow some of the
> 'Boot Camp' articles (machine language tutorial). The problem that I
> have is, they all build off of a beginning article, and you'll never
> guess what I am missing. They are articles on player missile graphics in
> machine language. If anyone has them, I would really appreciate getting
> in contact with them. I believe what I am looking for is in the
> July-October issues. I have November 86 - January 87, which are the last
> 3 in the series.
Time for a show of hands: how many of us are going to LoneStarCon in
San Antonio over Labor Day weekend?
Isaac, if you haven't found these by say 27 August, please let us know
so we know to be looking for them in the huckster room....
-Frank McConnell
If you e-mail me a fax number I can fax you the pages, there are 44 pages in
the manual showing the many different settings.
At 05:54 PM 8/18/97 -0700, you wrote:
>Can anyone help this guy out?
>
>---------- Forwarded message ----------
>Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 20:28:19 -0500
>From: Jim Duchek <jimduchek(a)primary.net>
>To: bill(a)booster.bothell.washington.edu
>Subject: Computers
>
>Hi there. I noticed in your collection that you had an IBM PC; I'm
>assuming it's a 5150. Do you have a manual for it that might list the
>jumper and dip switch settings on the motherboard, and if so, could you
>tell me what they are? Thanks.
>
>
>Jim Duchek
>jimduchek(a)primary.net
>
>
>
Can anyone help this guy out?
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 20:28:19 -0500
From: Jim Duchek <jimduchek(a)primary.net>
To: bill(a)booster.bothell.washington.edu
Subject: Computers
Hi there. I noticed in your collection that you had an IBM PC; I'm
assuming it's a 5150. Do you have a manual for it that might list the
jumper and dip switch settings on the motherboard, and if so, could you
tell me what they are? Thanks.
Jim Duchek
jimduchek(a)primary.net
I can get lots of TI 99 items, tell what you are looking for ??
At 10:28 AM 8/18/97 BST, you wrote:
>> > I bought: A TI-99/4A (Not as lucky as Roger M - I paid L12 with no
>> > joysticks, manuals or cartridges, but I did get the UHF thingy)
>>
>> Nice!!!....
>
>Yes, my first TI computer (I have a broken calculator and a Silent 700
>or two...)
>
>> > But the real find: A British Telecom Microscribe for L1
>>
>> Very nice...
>>
>> > This object is a solidly built sub-notebook (about 7 in square by 1
>> > thick) with a dinky keyboard and a palmtop-sized LCD. It has 32K of RAM
>> > and 16K of ROM, and the processor is an Hitachi HD63A03XP single chip
>> > microcomputer.
>>
>> Is that the only processor? It sounds as though it might be distantly
>> related to a Thorn-EMI machine called a Liberator which had a 63-something
>> for I/O and a Z80 running a CP/M like OS (or at least, that what I think
>> is inside it - the ROM is (C) Digital Research, and running strings on a
>> ROM image turns up some interesting stuff)
>
>'fraid so. Indeed, it is the only chip with >28 pins (apart from the
>flatpacks on the back of the LCD). IC master, just to be perverse,
>gives various 6301 and 6305 variants in that series, but nothing of 6303
>flavour.
>
>> Not so. A lot of machines use the NiCd as the smoothing component. HP
>> certainly did in just about all of their more recent NiCd calculators (the
>> ones that use the 8V 50mA AC charger).
>
>Interesting. I haven't found where the battery gets in, but the input
>stage is something like:
>
> Diode
>Ring --+--/\/\/-|>|-+-----+
> | 56R | \
> | |C / 82R
> | |/ \
> +-/\/\/-+--| NPN /
> | |\ |
> _ |E |
>Tip--+ Zener A +-----+--- +5V? to rest of machine (??)
> | |
> GND GND
>
>I would guess the battery could well do any smoothing downstream of the
>regulator, but I'd still like to see some upstream of it!
>
>If the machine draws 60mA, minimum voltage at input is around 9V,
>maximum around 13V, so I suppose I could try 10V and see what happens...
>
>> Some, like the Epson HX20 even used the fact that the voltage across the
>> NiCd would go above 5V to limit the supply voltage to the chips. The
> ^^^^^
>I take it you mean wouldn't
>
>> If you have an adjustable PSU, apply about 5V, and then crank it up
>> towards 9V (I'd guess that's what it takes), monitor the 5V line and stop
>> if it rises above (say) 5.5V. See what current flows - it should be
>> arround 50mA.
>
>Worth a try.
>
>Philip.
>
>
>
Anyone want any Kaypro 10s? I know someone who has a couple he wants to
get rid of.
Sam
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass
Umm... I just noticed something. On the READY lamp, where the drive
number is supposed to be, mine is blank. There's nothing behind the ready
cover. No metal in it. Does that mean drive 0?
> I've got a little reference card for HP9830A Basic. Get me your postal
> address and I'll send you a copy.
Thank you, it looks as if I'll be unloading it. Perhaps he who gets it
would be interested.
[My ascii circuit diagram]
> That looks like a voltage regualtor, which is strange, since I'd have
> expected a constant current charger for the NiCd. Of course a lot of
> machines just use a resistor to limit the charging current (and to get you
> to buy more expensive battery packs)
It does to me, too! By "to get you to buy more expensive battery packs"
do you mean that the packs are more expensive, or that they wear out
faster?
> > If the machine draws 60mA, minimum voltage at input is around 9V,
> > maximum around 13V, so I suppose I could try 10V and see what happens...
>
> Remember that you'll be charging this thing (probably) with the machine
> turned off, so it's not going to be taking much current).
Good point. 50mA then (8 < V < 12) based on the 14 hour rate on the
battery label. Looks like 9V is about right...
There is also a power switch but I haven't found where it connects yet.
(Not in series with the circuit I just drew AFAIK) Next task, I
suppose, is to trace that part of the circuit. Difficult, because most
of PCB tracks are underneath LCD module which is difficult to remove...
Philip.
> > I bought: A TI-99/4A (Not as lucky as Roger M - I paid L12 with no
> > joysticks, manuals or cartridges, but I did get the UHF thingy)
>
> Nice!!!....
Yes, my first TI computer (I have a broken calculator and a Silent 700
or two...)
> > But the real find: A British Telecom Microscribe for L1
>
> Very nice...
>
> > This object is a solidly built sub-notebook (about 7 in square by 1
> > thick) with a dinky keyboard and a palmtop-sized LCD. It has 32K of RAM
> > and 16K of ROM, and the processor is an Hitachi HD63A03XP single chip
> > microcomputer.
>
> Is that the only processor? It sounds as though it might be distantly
> related to a Thorn-EMI machine called a Liberator which had a 63-something
> for I/O and a Z80 running a CP/M like OS (or at least, that what I think
> is inside it - the ROM is (C) Digital Research, and running strings on a
> ROM image turns up some interesting stuff)
'fraid so. Indeed, it is the only chip with >28 pins (apart from the
flatpacks on the back of the LCD). IC master, just to be perverse,
gives various 6301 and 6305 variants in that series, but nothing of 6303
flavour.
> Not so. A lot of machines use the NiCd as the smoothing component. HP
> certainly did in just about all of their more recent NiCd calculators (the
> ones that use the 8V 50mA AC charger).
Interesting. I haven't found where the battery gets in, but the input
stage is something like:
Diode
Ring --+--/\/\/-|>|-+-----+
| 56R | \
| |C / 82R
| |/ \
+-/\/\/-+--| NPN /
| |\ |
_ |E |
Tip--+ Zener A +-----+--- +5V? to rest of machine (??)
| |
GND GND
I would guess the battery could well do any smoothing downstream of the
regulator, but I'd still like to see some upstream of it!
If the machine draws 60mA, minimum voltage at input is around 9V,
maximum around 13V, so I suppose I could try 10V and see what happens...
> Some, like the Epson HX20 even used the fact that the voltage across the
> NiCd would go above 5V to limit the supply voltage to the chips. The
^^^^^
I take it you mean wouldn't
> If you have an adjustable PSU, apply about 5V, and then crank it up
> towards 9V (I'd guess that's what it takes), monitor the 5V line and stop
> if it rises above (say) 5.5V. See what current flows - it should be
> arround 50mA.
Worth a try.
Philip.
Hi there everyone!
I went to the car boot sale again yesterday. For once, there were lots
of computers on offer: two ZX Spectra (original 16K); one Spectrum +2;
an Atari 620; any number of Commodore 64s in late-style cases.
I bought: A TI-99/4A (Not as lucky as Roger M - I paid L12 with no
joysticks, manuals or cartridges, but I did get the UHF thingy)
But the real find: A British Telecom Microscribe for L1
This object is a solidly built sub-notebook (about 7 in square by 1
thick) with a dinky keyboard and a palmtop-sized LCD. It has 32K of RAM
and 16K of ROM, and the processor is an Hitachi HD63A03XP single chip
microcomputer.
THE LCD looks as if it might be 200 or 256 by 64 pixels (40 characters
by 8 lines?) - I haven't powered it up yet because (a) the NiCd battery
is flat and (b) I have yet to work out what voltage to feed it (3.5mm
jack with tip negative). All I know is that it must be smoothed DC,
since there is a diode but no smoothing capacitor in the input stage.
The battery is 4.8V, and somewhat inconsistently marked 0.8 Ah - charge
at 50mA for 14 hours (I make that 0.7Ah less charging losses), so the
power supply (which feeds a linear regulator - transistor in parallel
with 82 ohms) must be greater than this. I would guess at something in
the region of 9V given the size of the resistors in the regulator
circuit, but...
The manufacturer's label on the back suggests it is a Microscribe Model
320, made by Microscribe Ltd at Cwmbran in South Wales. Since they had
the forethought to put an address and 'phone number on the label, I
shall try and contact them this week (DV).
Meanwhile, does anyone have any info on this? In particular, what
voltage do I feed it?
Philip.
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Philip Belben <><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Das Feuer brennt, das Feuer nennt die Luft sein Schwesterelement -
und frisst sie doch (samt dem Ozon)! Das ist die Liebe, lieber Sohn.
Poem by Christian Morgenstern - Message by Philip.Belben(a)powertech.co.uk
Anybody know what an Opus 5000 is? Someone offered me one for sale and
I'm trying to figure out how much I should offer to pay him for it. Thanks.
Sam
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass
Well, guys & gals, remember me? I'm one of the folks who lives in the
boonies that owns 70% of the classic machines in a 50 mile radius!!!
I travelled just a bit closer to civilization over the weekend, and did a
lot of gar[b]age saleing on Thurs. & Friday, and I did get one good find,
well, for at least the thumb area of Michigan (lotsa farmers)...
A TI-99/4A (works) with RF Modulator, Joysticks, and 20 cartridges... $5.
It even came in a computer/game holder, to keep everything organized.
(haggled from $10... had to give wifey a lesson on "Don't ask me what it
is, when I'm playing dumb!" ;-)
Tho this isn't perfectly legit, I also picked up a Sony AC/DC (with 3 types
of DC!) 5" color TV, which I plan to use as a monitor / portable monitor
for one (or more) of my CoCo's. (The TI didn't like it... :-(
Question: One of the cartridges has a triangular picture-hanger rivited to
the case... would this be some sort of store demo or something?
Anyway, keep digging, you'll eventually come up with something!
Have fun,
"Merch"
--
Roger Merchberger | If at first you don't succeed,
Programmer, NorthernWay | nuclear warhead disarmament should *not*
zmerch(a)northernway.net | be your first career choice.
In a message dated 8/17/97 9:45:58 AM, you wrote:
<<Hi Dave, just curious how the minimum bids were arrived at as they are
quite
high based on the prices I see out here in California.>>
Marvin, Well, I'm here in Jacksonville, Florida and I source all of my finds
>from the AOL classifieds and from a number of newsgroups. The prices are just
my best guesses to minimum "shipped" values. The true value of any
collectable is what the market will bare. I think I'm letting some of these
things go at a pretty modest level (at least from my reference). Thank you
for your comments, I'm going to keep trying to make it a better page. Best,
David Greelish
Classic Computing Press
Jacksonville, FL
historical(a)aol.com
http://www.cyberstreet.com/hcs/hcs.htm
Does anyone have any info on the I/O port on the back of the HP9100
desktop calculator? I believe that HP once produced a manual telling you
how to link up homebrew/custom peripherals, but I don't have it, alas
What I really need is a pinout, brief signal descriptions or timings, etc.
I want to be able to output a few on/off signals (I don't care if they're
binary or BCD encoded).
-tony
If this ends up being a duplicate, my apologies. The first one was sent
while I may not have been subscribed under my new address.
In any case... yes, a new address. I had to ditch the old one due to
spamming. Please note the new one: kyrrin2(a)wizards.net.
Caveat emptor!
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272)
(Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin2(a)wizards.net)
http://www.wizards.net/technoid
"Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own
human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..."
<controllers. There was a NSC800 cpu module, and when I removed it, sure
<enough, there was a NSC800 N-1 cpu. No idea what that is though. Heaps of
<switches, leds and stuff behind the front panel, too.
Sounds like a National semi development system. The NSC800 is a cmos z80
that is 8085 bus compatable if I remember right. Generally speaking
development systems tend to be scarce as they are not hight volume.
Allison
