On 1997-11-09 classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu said to scottk5(a)ibm.net
>X-Sender: ward(a)news2.cnct.com
>X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN
>Kip Crosby wrote:
>> At 03:34 11/8/97 GMT, you wrote:
>> >....in my experience
>> >with IBM network cards, if they're a round (i.e. BNC) connector,
>> >they're probably the old "baseband" stuff that uses lots of coax
>>cable >and a hub/amplifier, and work only with IBM PC-LAN Program
>>and >NetBEUI....the number 2Mb/sec comes
>> >to mind....
>> Are we talking about Arcnet here? When I think 2Mb/sec, BNC
>>connector, and 8-bit bus, I think Arcnet, but there may have been
>others.... If the cards are _branded_ IBM, chances are well over
>ten to one that they are
>Token Ring. IBM never touched Arcnet, and was hesitant about
>Ethernet. --
>Ward Griffiths
If any of those network cards ARE token-ring and have BNC connectors, I
would love to buy a couple. I got an old Token ring MAU several years ago
that has BNC ports and would like to try it out. Can't tell you how many
people have flat out denied that Token Ring was ever carried over coax!
But the existence of the MAU is proof enough that at one time it was done.
Kirk Scott
scottk5(a)ibm.net
Kirk Scott
dynasoar(a)mindspring.com
Net-Tamer V 1.09.2 - Test Drive
I got my Sun 3/50 working the other day (bad flyback transformer in the
monitor), but now I need a keyboard/mouse. I think that I need a "type 3"
keyboard and a mouse. Does anyone have a spare to sell?
Also, does anyone know the specs of the "shoebox" external hard drive?
TIA!
Rich Cini/WUGNET
<rcini(a)msn.com>
- ClubWin! Charter Member (6)
- MCP Windows 95/Networking
At 06:47 AM 11/9/97 +0000, you wrote:
>I've recently heard of someone who told me about an 8080 laptop from
>someone who has been into computers longer than I have. He said that
>there was a laptop... in the 1970's, that was smaller than the origional
>Compaq. It was soupossed to only have a little RAM, and it was used by
>journalists, who would connect with a modem an upload the files. Is
>this true? If so, what on earth ever happened to these? (Does this
>sound like something else... H/PC come to mind?
That would be the Radio Shack Model 100. 8085 processor, 8K-32K RAM, simple
text editor, basic, and comm pgm built in. See:
<http://www.m100.com/> Andy Diller's site
<http://www.the-dock.com/club100.html> Club 100
<http://home.northernway.net/~zmerch/signupform.html> Model 100 Mailing List
<http://acme.nug.net:80/~tmne/> Tri-Mike Network East
I love 'em myself. I'm working on an alphapaging program so I can use one
as a dedicated paging station. There are, btw, *still* a lot of journalists
who use them, especially in areas where reliability is important. (They
have no moving parts.)
--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-
Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad
sinasohn(a)ricochet.net that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/
>OK. By the way, speaking of "sub-laptops", does anyone know what kind of models
>might be good for me? I just pretty much want to be able to take notes; etc.
>Windows CE is cheap enough for me, but they're keyboards aren't for REAL
>people.
>Possibly an Apple Newton? Or are there any classics that have a keyboard large
>enough to type on(not two-finger typing.) ? Where can I get one of these Radio
>Shack 100's?
An alternative to the 100 is the Amstrad Notepad (NC-100), which I found to
be pretty good for notes, and is somewhat more recent. Not that recent,
though - it uses the Z80A.
Adam.
>>> I'm new at collecting classics. What is a VIC-20?
>>
>>The VIC-20 was Commodore's first computer...2K of RAM (I think), did
sounds
>>and color TV screen stuff.
>
>Actually it's far from thier first. There was several models of the PET,
Whoops! of course...and didn't they make a calculator or two?
>and another earlier one whose name escapes me (KIT?). Unexpanded it has a
>whopping 3583 bytes. I know for a fact it could be expanded to 16k, and I
>think there was eventually a larger one than that. The VIC-20 was my only
>computer from '82-'86 unfortunatly I gave it away in '90, and I finally got
>one to replace it today!
On Fri, 7 Nov 1997 18:23:51 -0800 (PST), Mr. Ismail remarked:
> Ok, first of all I'm pretty amazed at the 3rd grade level of
> mentality being demonstrated by the whiners complaining about my
> "foul" language.
You seem to hint that I was whining about the language, which is
simply not the case. The way one uses language states a lot about who
they are - and yes, sometimes this requires profanity. However, let's
save the "heavy language" for times when we really need it (like when
you drop a mini on your foot :-) ).
> Perhaps I should have been more specific and stated that from a
> mass-consumer marketing standpoint, the Nova is not significant.
In this case, the man has a valid point - from one perspective.
If one takes that perspective to an extreme, however, we find that
ENIAC wasn't relevant (only one ever built), none of the Zuse
machines amounted to anything, the ABC was meaningless, and the
IBM 360 was unimportant.
There's more to a machine that makes it historically important
than how many were sold or produced. Was the STRETCH important (a
half dozen or so)? How about the PDP-10 (under a thousand)? Mass
marketing is not the gauge of importance, especially in a social
context. Remember - the individuals who designed the machines that
_were_ mass marketed were brought up knowing about computers, and
those machines most certainly weren't mass-market devices.
> At any rate, why is there concern that the Nova will never be wanted
> until some newspaper runs an article on it? The argument is
> pointless.
Whether Novas are "wanted" is immaterial to the argument. Folks are
now virtually unaware of a piece of history, and an important one at
that. It's also a piece of history that's fast disappearing, which is
a rotten shame.
> So there's no market for it. Boo hoo.
Do multi-thousand dollar speculative prices on Altairs make them
more "historic" or "valuable" than a PDP-5 (predecessor of the -8)?
There's more to be calculated into a "value" than the current market
price, which all too frequently is out of line with reality.
> Nobody required Tim to take on 5000 lbs worth of stuff [...]
Nope. Nobody did. That's one of the reasons I have respect for
the man. He knows machines worth saving, and is willing to take the
time and (not incosiderable) effort to do so.
> If Tim was realistic he'd realize the practical implications involved
> in hauling a ton of equipment ANYWHERE on the continent, let alone
> across national borders.
He is realistic about it - I've chatted with him about it privately.
He realises fully what moving that amount of gear means. So do I and
another chap out East who are moving a good quarter-ton all the way
across a continent.
> If the majority of kids in America had a picture of a Nova tacked to
> their wall, the newspapers might have run a story on one.
Do you know who I'm speaking of? Hint: he designed one of the early
mass-market computers that you prize so highly.
> So Carl, why did you just mention the most popular of personal
> computers?
Put bluntly - shock value. I used that list as a calculated way of
getting folks' attention, and perhaps, just perhaps, of getting them
to "smell the coffee". To reiterate - it takes more to make a machine
important than how many copies were sold.
Cheers.
______________________________________________________________________
| | |
| Carl Richard Friend (UNIX Sysadmin) | West Boylston |
| Minicomputer Collector / Enthusiast | Massachusetts, USA |
| mailto:carl.friend@stoneweb.com | |
| http://www.ultranet.com/~engelbrt/carl/museum | ICBM: N42:22 W71:47 |
|________________________________________________|_____________________|
So, what do you people think I should do when I just can't keep a computer
much longer? I don't want to trash them, but things like XTs, 286s, etc? What
can I do but throw them away when I have no room?
Another question: does anyone have a logic board for a Mac Color Classic? I
know it's pretty new, but this is the only place I stand a chance of getting
one under $50. I found a Color Classic, and some moron smashed the display
and ripped out the logic board. I can use an external screen, but what about
the logic board?
A related matter: ROM for a Mac IIx?
<> The Nova will never be featured in the newspapers because it is not a
<> socially significant computer.
No more (or less) so than PDP-11s that it competed against.
<Ever read, say, _Soul of a New Machine_?
Good read, still have my copy!
Once upon a time there were many computer companies in Massachusetts
and during the life of the pdp-8, PDP-11 and the VAX there was Data General
trying to also carve a niche in the minicomputer market. This is
significant as most of action preceeds 1978. To put that in perspective
by '78 the altair was two years old and MITS starting to crumble, IMSI was
starting to peak, TRS-80 was new, AppleII was there as well, SS50 bus
machines were strong with SWTP and the new Smoke Signal Broadcasting
Company. The PC would be three years away.
<"socially significant computer" is, I'm not willing to let anything
<I consider to be significant go to the scrap metal dealers if I can
<avoid it.
Computers each and every have significance, some because of new concepts,
new markets or in a few cases the scams and swindles behind them! There
were many unremarkable computers made and many while noteable were really
junk!
Hey you forgot: SBCs <single board computers> are hardly ever noted here.
Most often they are simple minimum systems featuring the makers CPU or
chip sets. Some of note are the EVK68<ami-6800>, Motorola 6800D1, 6800D2,
National SC/MP<isp8a-500>, Cosmac ELF<1802>, INTEL SDK80<8080>, SDK85<8085>
and SDK88<8088>, IMSAI IMP48<8035>, Technico Super Starter<TI9900>, are
samples of what I mean<some I have>. Most of these were not expandable
to full systems and were really aimed at the hobbiest/engineer to show
off the chips or provide a working example to build off of. Others like
the IMP-48 were complete systems intended for control system use or for
one up embedded applications or quick prototypes.
If I could say one thing about all of the arguments...
Been there, done that! I even have a few of the t-shirts that are still
not rags yet. How many were at PCC'76 on the boardwalk?
Allison
If it's possible, could I take a IBM dot-matrix (or any other dot-matrix)?
By the way, I've tried all the computer retailers in my area, and they
don't have any classics. Any other places I should look?
Thanks,
Tim D. Hotze
----------
From: Zeus334(a)aol.com
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Subject: Old stuff
Date: Saturday, November 08, 1997 2:16 AM
In a certain supply room, there are in storage some computers of interest
to
me. There used to be some XTs and PCs, but they were given to a school. The
stuff that's still there:
A ton of printers, generally IBM dot-matrix
A ton of manuals and books, including manuals to Quattro-Pro, the manuals
to
some of the IBM printers, etc. Also, books on C and pascal
A few cartons of floppies, with the original disks to DOS 3.3, and a bunch
of
programs I have never heard of.
About 15 IBM network cards. I can't tell what they are, but they are brown
full- length eight bit things with round connectors on the back.
An IBM System/74, with three terminals.
I believe that the administration will part with all of these without much
difficulty. I could personally use the first 4 items. The System/74 is
about
the size of a closet, and I doubt I would find much use for it (If only I
had
room...)
I know nothing about it, and I would appreciate if you people would tell me
what the heck a System/74 is. It has a big floppy drive (14" or 8") built
in
to the front panel, mounted on its side.....
> So, what do you people think I should do when I just can't keep a computer
> much longer? I don't want to trash them, but things like XTs, 286s, etc? What
> can I do but throw them away when I have no room?
You can almost always find somebody who can use an extra computer.
Schools, non-profit organizations, somebody will want your old machines,
especially if you have a bit of software to go with them. If you don't
want 'em, give 'em away.
In fact, I seem to recall a group of Lisas (?) that some on the list were
interested in being donated to a school for developmentally disabled
children.
--
Ben Coakley http://www.math.grin.edu/~coakley coakley(a)ac.grin.edu
Station Manager, KDIC 88.5 FM CBEL: Xavier OH
It is good to rock. It is very good to rock wearing a big ass pumpkin on your
head. It is very, very good if that pumpkin is on fire. --Jessica Stern
On Sat, 8 Nov 1997 11:15:17 -0600 (CST), Mr. Seagraves was heard
to remark:
> We should build a computer from discrete components, just to operate
> one. And connect it to the Internet. Of course, we'd never finish
> in out lifetimes, and it would fill a room, but it would be awful
> cool!
I know, personally, of a chap in Germany who is, at this moment,
putting the finishing touches on a modern-day vacuum-tube computer.
I'm looking forward to seeing the designs and writing a simulator for
it so we may all have fun.
Computers aren't all _that_ hard to design and build! Just remember
that you don't _need_ all the instruction-set bloat that's so common
nowadays. Think RISC. Of course, before there was CISC/RISC there
was... well "RISC". The first time I heard of RISC the though that
popped into my mind was: "Finally! Back to basics!".
______________________________________________________________________
| | |
| Carl Richard Friend (UNIX Sysadmin) | West Boylston |
| Minicomputer Collector / Enthusiast | Massachusetts, USA |
| mailto:carl.friend@stoneweb.com | |
| http://www.ultranet.com/~engelbrt/carl/museum | ICBM: N42:22 W71:47 |
|________________________________________________|_____________________|
Speaking of reference manuals, does anyone have any information / insights
into a Visual Technologies Commuter? Manf in 1984, it uses two Intel chips
(8086 and 8088) with a plethora of RAM chips not to mention at least four
program subroutines. The manufacturer seems to have disowned this particular
unit since two people in their tech department have not heard of it.
Thanks in advance
Sam
Not yet a classic, but does anyone have a {spare} copy of the "Technical
Reference Personal Computer AT"? This is the tech ref guide for the original
IBM PC/AT, published by IBM (I'm guessing in a gray fabric binder).
TIA!
Rich Cini/WUGNET
<rcini(a)msn.com>
Charter ClubWin! Member
MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking
Hi All:
Here are some odds and ends available for offers and cost of shipping:
1. DG color monitor, model 6423, 15"
2. Sun 2/50 with 17" mono monitor
3. Sun 17" mono monitor
Please email me if you're interested. I'm in Vancouver, BC.
Kevin
---
Kevin McQuiggin VE7ZD
mcquiggi(a)sfu.ca
I've recently heard of someone who told me about an 8080 laptop from
someone who has been into computers longer than I have. He said that
there was a laptop... in the 1970's, that was smaller than the origional
Compaq. It was soupossed to only have a little RAM, and it was used by
journalists, who would connect with a modem an upload the files. Is
this true? If so, what on earth ever happened to these? (Does this
sound like something else... H/PC come to mind?
Hi,
I _THINK_ I found the problem that I was having. It appears that the HD
cables weren't attached, only the power (weird that). Just prior to this I
found out about the LED counter on the back of the unit and found that it
was sitting on "1" despite the fact the counter on the screen was "2".
According to the Hardware manual this means that the bootstrap device might
not contain bootable system software.
OK, now I've got the HD plugged in and am hoping things will go better.
Foolish me. Now it just sits there on "2". Doesn't even give me the "?54
RETRY" message, it simply sounds like it starts to spin down the HD, and
then immediatly spins it back up. It's been sitting like this for a while
now. Nothing. Even the LED on the back says "2".
Oh, at least I found out I've got an RD53-A HD. Is there any difference
between a RD53 HD and a RD53-A HD, or are they the same thing?
Anyone have any ideas on this? It's starting to look to me as if someone
pulled out the original HD to put in a machine that needed a good one.
Then they put the bad on in this machine, but for some reason took the time
to plug in the power.
Zane
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator |
| healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast |
| healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ |
| For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. |
| see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html |
At 03:34 11/8/97 GMT, you wrote:
>....in my experience
>with IBM network cards, if they're a round (i.e. BNC) connector,
>they're probably the old "baseband" stuff that uses lots of coax cable
>and a hub/amplifier, and work only with IBM PC-LAN Program and
>NetBEUI....the number 2Mb/sec comes
>to mind....
Are we talking about Arcnet here? When I think 2Mb/sec, BNC connector, and
8-bit bus, I think Arcnet, but there may have been others....
____________________________________________________________
Kip Crosby, honcho, mechanic and sole proprietor, Kip's Garage
http://www.kipsgarage.com: rumors, tech tips and philosophy for the trenches
Coming Spring '98: The Windows 98 Bible by Kip Crosby and Fred Davis!
At 01:45 11/8/97 -0600, you wrote:
>HP 75D with 9114 disk drive -- $25
>....Anyway, if anyone has *any* info about it, I'd love to hear from you. I
>tried HP's site and all I got was that it's discontinued, not supported, and
>replaced by a newer handheld....
The 75D, demonstrating a logic rare in HP model numbers, is the immediate
successor of the 75C, often described as "HP's first fully portable
computer." They were, IIRC, made in Singapore and not anywhere near as
common as the later HP handhelds; this was one of those cases where HP saw
the light bulb before the customers did.
The 75x is not pricey, as you discovered, but not easy to find, and
undoubtedly significant.
__________________________________________
Kip Crosby engine(a)chac.org
http://www.chac.org/index.html
Computer History Association of California
<From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com>
<Loading system software.
< 2..
<?54 RETRY
< 2..
No device or bad media.
<When it's coming up it sounds like the HD spins up, and then as soon as it
<hits the "Loading system software" it sounds like it spins down.
Sounds like the rd54 or 53 has a case of spin down disease. Bad drive.
<thing. If I'm doing it correctly the only one that it seems to try to rea
<is 525993. Sounds like I'm out of luck.
Goddess knows whats on that tape. The number is a date code!
My guess is you have a bad drive and lots of media with nothing of value.
The uVAX-II can also boot off DECnet from another VMS or Ultrix host.
Allison
Hello, I was wondering if you knew where I could get
documentation for the old Altair 8800 system. Plans/kit
would be cool, too, but I don't really expect to find that.
thanks. :)
<It's an MCS8i, and it's based on the 8080 (40 pin ceramic DIP package -
<IIRC the 8008 has only 18 pins). The _CPU board_ carries a 1972 copyright
Yes the 8008 was 18 and the 8080 was 40. However the 8080 was not
available in 1972.
<date in the etch. Of course it could have been designed in 1972, and
<then sold later when the 8080 was produced, but it's still a pretty
<early design
The etch was likely not the copyright so much as the MCS8 written on it.
The MCS was their first shot boards for the 8008 and the 8080.
According to my research plus being in the industry during that time the
8008 was introduced in December 1971 and the 8080 was first sampled in
December 1973. Source, Intel literature I have. The 8080 was not even
operational in the lab during 1972. It's important to note that
significant qunatities of either were some 6 months later and very
expensive.
Additionally it was during 1973 (late summer) that Gary Kildall started
working on an operating system for the 8080 which was done mostly by cross
assemble and simulation and was run on the first die that was probed and
found functional.
Allison
<> That was 64bits of internal storage and that is different from a 64bit
<> parallel CPU. Also 613khz is slow.
<
<Not that slow. Depends what you do with the clock. Remember that a
<Motorola 6809 running at .8 Mhz (800 Khz) could always beat an Intel
<8088 running at 4.77 Mhz by at least 25% and usually 50% in tests I
<used.
It is when you compare it to contemporary 64bitters runiing at typical
clocks. The HP being aimed at calculator like apps didn't need speed.
As to the 6809 vs 8088 there is a big difference in how the clock is used
to time the cpu and how many clock cycles it takes to execute a given task.
The classic case is the 6502 at 2mhz against the 6800 at the same speed.
This is generally why I don't compare clocks. But 613khz is by most
respects slow, how slow is not relevent as for that application it was fast
enough.
Allison
Yes it has the side pins and based your other information it is a controller
unit. I getting orders for the boards now, but will be letting them go by
the end of this week. On the 14th or 15th I will start e-mail to all who
have asked for one. John
At 06:11 AM 11/6/97 -0500, you wrote:
>
>On Tue, 4 Nov 1997, John R. Keys Jr. wrote:
>
>> Hello to all
>> Had a pretty slow week last week only a few finds will later in week. Today
>> I got a box load of SYM-1's somewere betweeen 15 and 20 of them.
>
>That's exceptionally cool. When do you start taking orders? :)
>
>> I also got something called a IVS TRUMPCARD 500 by Interactive Video System
>> and have no idea what it is, any help out there ?
>
>Does it have a female 86-pin edge connector on it?
>
>>From the name I suspect it's a hard drive controller and RAM card for the
>Amiga 500. External. I base my guess on:
>
>1) "TrumpCard" - This was definitely the name of some hardcards for the
> A2000, and I think there were A500 models as well.
>
>2) "Interactive Video System" - With a name like that, there's a darn good
> chance the company was in the Amiga
> market.
>
>3) 500 - As in Amiga 500.
>
>Of course, as usual, I'm separated from my magazines so I can't go poking
>around looking. I think I'll have to move a representative sample into my
>room so that this situation is less likely in future.
>
>
>Doug Spence
>ds_spenc(a)alcor.concordia.ca
>
>
>
I have a copy let me know what you need. John
At 08:06 AM 11/5/97 -0500, you wrote:
> Not yet a classic, but does anyone have a {spare} copy of the "Technical
>Reference Personal Computer AT"? This is the tech ref guide for the original
>IBM PC/AT, published by IBM (I'm guessing in a gray fabric binder).
>
> TIA!
>
>Rich Cini/WUGNET
><rcini(a)msn.com>
> Charter ClubWin! Member
> MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
