test-drb

test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

101090 discussions

by dwalterm＠ix.netcom.com

James Willing <jimw(a)agora.rdrop.com> wrote: > While wandering around one of my favourite surplus gear haunts today, I cam > across a couple of HP 1000 F series minicomputers. While they look neat, I > know just about nothing about them. Anyone out there familiar enough with > them to give me the 'infamous 25 words or less' speech on their significance? They're real-time control systems, based around the 21MX processor family (which succeeded the 2100 (ca. 1972) and 211[456] (ca. 1967)) and running one of several flavors of HP's RTE operating system. I've never actually used them. I worked on them for years.... You will still find them in Nuclear Power Plant control rooms, all phases of automotive testing and even handling online ATM transactions. The E series was even used as a fast front end for Burroughs mainframes. Also lots of military applications. The front panel/door drops down to show the memory backplane. The top three boards are the two channel DMA, Memory Protect and MEM (Memory Expansion Controller). This was needed if you wanted to use more than 32K of memory. The back backplane was for the I/O cards. Near the bottom is the TBG (Time Base Generator). The Model 2117F had more slots and the hardware floating point processor was a separate box. The more rare version had the Floating Point boards built into the top of the regular case. This meant a loss of memory and I/O slots.... These systems had all kinds of I/O available from paper tape puches/readers to mag tapes to all kinds of hard disk drives, floppies, terminals, A/D, other instrumentation, etc. Later they had SCSI and various proprietary and standard networking. Lots of great memories :-)

28 years, 5 months

Wrong Way:New Definiton REQUIRED

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 06:20 PM 11/18/97 +0000, you wrote: >the following info: (1) The definition is bendable, as circimsances dicatate, >(2) The definition is pretty much fine as it is, but (3) (The BIG one) Many Ultimately, the definition is up to Bill Whitson. If people start talking about stuff he's not interested in, or that he doesn't feel to be the provenance of this list, he'll a) warn people, b) unsubscribe people, or c) shut the list down. So personally, because I certainly don't want b) or c) to happen, and I'd rather a) didn't have to, I'll stick to the topics Bill had in mind when creating this list. If I'm really desperate to talk about which 486 motherboards are collectible, I'll start my own collect486 list. >computers will NOT be significant classics... origionally, as has been pointed >out, the "10 year" rule was to make sure that IBMs weren't included... first the I think it was set so as to avoid current/mainstream computer support questions. (Which I'm sure most of the people on this list could answer, but that's not why they've subscribed to this list.) The (admittedly debateable) position that generic PC's are *not* significant/collectible/etc. and thusly are not the provenance of this list is a (IMO) welcome side effect. (Note: some pc's *are* significant or collectible -- lots of portables, the corner case one (packard bell?), monorails, Kip's Rose Hill PC (to Kip), etc. -- they're just not the focus of this list.) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn(a)ricochet.net that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 5 months

Case designs (was: New Definiton REQUIRED)

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 06:57 AM 11/18/97 -0800, you wrote: >At 09:04 11/18/97 +0000, you wrote: >>I've never understood this love of screwdriver-less cases. If I'm going to >>be fixing a computer I'm going to have a soldering station, scope, logic >>analyser, cutters, etc with me. So having a screwdriver set is no big deal Another thought... I've not yet figured out how to squeeze >24 hours in a day, and I've got about 54 hours worth of stuff to do every day, so anything that saves a little time is welcome. >where I'm at someone's house for dinner, and they say "Oh, BTW, my >computer's not working," and I didn't bring a screwdriver and they don't >own a #2 Phillips. Some people (esp. on this list) may not realize it, but there are actually hordes of people out there who go their entire lives without ever owning a single screwdriver. Which is why I've got two in/on my laptop case, several in my laptop "kit", and a swiss army knife with a flat sd, phillips sd, pliers, and (8^) corkscrew. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn(a)ricochet.net that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 5 months

Case designs (was: New Definiton REQUIRED)

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 09:04 AM 11/18/97 +0000, you wrote: >I've never understood this love of screwdriver-less cases. If I'm going to >be fixing a computer I'm going to have a soldering station, scope, logic >analyser, cutters, etc with me. So having a screwdriver set is no big deal It's not so much for *fixing* as it is for *upgrading*. If you want to swap in a new floppy drive or add memory or what-have-you, it's much easier on some computers than others. S-100's were great in some respects -- just lift the ears and the boards pop right out. Or, drop 'em in the channels and they slide right in. The Mac 8500AV, on the other hand, requires nearly a complete disassembly just to add some memory. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn(a)ricochet.net that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 5 months

Heathkit H-11

by rcini＠email.msn.com

What do you think of this... I have a guy in Jacksonville FL with a Heathkit H11 system. CPU, dual 8" disk drive unit, all software and manuals. Cost of shipping (to NY). Is the H11 just a repackaged PDP-11?? What else can you tell me about it? Rich Cini/WUGNET <rcini(a)msn.com> - ClubWin! Charter Member (6) - MCP Windows 95/Networking

28 years, 5 months

New Definiton REQUIRED

by engine＠chac.org

At 14:02 11/18/97 -0800, Tim wrote: >.... Some drives have even removed the >drive select jumper options, forcing you to use the half-baked concept >of a cable with a twist in the middle. Half-baked, yet burned. ____________________________________________________________ Kip Crosby, honcho, mechanic and sole proprietor, Kip's Garage http://www.kipsgarage.com: rumors, tech tips and philosophy for the trenches Coming Spring '98: The Windows 98 Bible by Kip Crosby and Fred Davis!

28 years, 5 months

New Definiton REQUIRED

by manney＠nwohio.com

> Age, also, alone, does not make a classic. I doubt that the standard >run-of-the-mill '386 PeeCee will ever amount to anything except to, >perhaps, archaeologists who dig one out of a landfill. There were too >many of them made, and they were (are) regarded as "disposable". Look >at the construction - modern machines aren't made to be repaired any >more than a disposable cigarette lighter is made to be refilled. They >burn out, you toss' em, and buy another one. Well, not quite. You'll have a motherboard problem with Packard Bell, Compaq and the like -- but many use "generic" motherboards; thus a Baby AT case would fit anything from a 286 to a Pentium whatever (btw, shouldn't a P5 be called a Pentium Pro Lite?) Floppy disks, of course, have been standardized since the original PC, both in interface and form factor; EIDE/SCSI for hard disks, IDE for CD-ROM's. I upgrade PC's much of the time (probably sell 10 used systems/upgrades to 1 new system) and can tell you that upgrading _is_ viable in the PC world.

28 years, 5 months

New Definiton REQUIRED

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

As I recall, there's a little app around someplace that allows you to put whatever you want on the Wyse front panel display. > -----Original Message----- > From: PG Manney [SMTP:manney@nwohio.com] > Sent: Monday, November 17, 1997 10:29 AM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: New Definiton REQUIRED > > > another weird feature on Wyse 286 that can show time and > >date, mhz display like 8mhz, 12mhz and backlighted! :) > > Hey, I just had one of those come in for repair! The hard drive table aldo > has double digit numbers, something I've never seen before. >

28 years, 5 months

Wrong Way:New Definiton REQUIRED

by engine＠chac.org

At 18:20 11/18/97 +0000, Hotze wrote: >....pretty soon, we'll be getting in to a >time where the words "IBM Compatible" are going to get replaced with "PC." The >fact is, there are just too darn many 386s to contemplate... we have a few >options... (1) Allow only the first/last (IE Deskpro 386 first, I don't know >about last).... Nuh uh. ALR 386 first, Compaq second. The ALR 386 is one of the most collectible of all Intel boxes. __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine(a)chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California

28 years, 5 months

IBM 5100

by michaelg＠gray.mb.ca

I own two complete IBM 5100 systems. My original machine was fully loaded with 64k and both APL and BASIC in ROM. It also had the serial I/O card and I used to remotely access the machine with an ASR33 teletype at 110(?) baud. With the proprietary vertical market software plus the IBM software, I paid about $64,000 in 1975(?), or about a buck a byte. The other, purchased ten years later for spares, has BASIC only and I forget the amount of memory. I also have the entire library of IBM software released for these machines and all documentation including the service manuals. I have two external tape drives and two printers as well and boxes and boxes of tapes. I wrote a fully-funcional word-processor in APL for use with the "Paper Tiger"-series printers. I wrote over 100 user manuals on this machine and output camera-ready copy. If anyone out there needs any info or assistance with the 5100, perhaps I can help. -- Michael. -----------------------------------------------+------------------------ Michael Gillespie | Voice/Fax 204.943.9000 President, Telecommunities Canada Inc. | michaelg(a)tc.ca President, The Gray Research Group | michaelg(a)gray.mb.ca Project Manager, Blue Sky Community Networks | michaelg(a)freenet.mb.ca --- No good deed will go unpunished. ---- Standard Disclaimers Apply ---

28 years, 5 months

Wrong Way:New Definiton REQUIRED

by allisonp＠world.std.com

From: HOTZE <photze(a)batelco.com.bh> <computers will NOT be significant classics... origionally, as has been poin <out, the "10 year" rule was to make sure that IBMs weren't included... firs <IBM/PC, then the IBM XT, then the AT, and pretty soon, we'll be getting in Where in the world did that come from? Since anything greater than 10 years old would have been made in 1987 or before there is a whole class of PCs, XTs, and even ATs that fit. However, 386s(barely), 486s and P5s do not. Also I think the idea of the list was to not help me be a general "help me fix my PC forum". it's a common problem that new PC oowners are everywhere in every forums asking for help usually far from the topic and intent of the list (comp.os.cpm come to mind). I don't mean help with a older XT or PC but the "I just got a p6/233 and it doesn't...." stuff. 10 years, that's simple enough for most of us. Allison

28 years, 5 months

New Definiton/ Vaporware lives still!

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<From: HOTZE <photze(a)batelco.com.bh> <(1) Are old/new Motherboards compatible (IE 300 Mhz now, 600 Mhz later) I don't know or care. Likely not but there are reasons I say so. <(2) Where on God's creation can the parts???? (As for the OS, I'll probably take Linux, or NT, but I though there was translation software for x86 written...) I can't solve your geography problem. Here in the USA Alphas are plentyful as in western europe. The news groups have several a week for sale. Yes there is DEC software for x86 emulation. All you need to do is spend money as most all of it is current enough to buy. It is far to new to even discuss it further here Alpha is a 90s machine! By definition not eligible for status here till 2000+. Allison

28 years, 5 months

New Definiton REQUIRED

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<> > latest thing to come down the 'pike - it's all ASICs, custom silicon, <> > and surface mount stuff on wafer-thin boards. In short - not built <> > to last. Nor is it designed to. Surface mount offers compact and also better signal integrity for ultrafast logic. There are many good reasons for surface mount that are in the realm of quality improvement. Yes, it's take more skill to fix and some of the parts are not easy to come by. FYI in the industry there a few descriptions of part of the problem. Good, fast, cheap, pick two. Cost of repair exceeds value of unit. Fix/trash decision. Many machine were made the way they were because technology of the time balanced against cost were deciding factors. Allison

28 years, 5 months

Data General model 6122 disk subsystem available

by pcoad＠wco.com

There is a local (Silicon Valley) guy who has a model 6122 disk subsystem with two packs. It has a capacity of 277MB and requires 3 phase power. Included are also some shipping cases for the packs. I believe that the subsystem weighs about 200-300 pounds. The dimensions are approximately 20" x 48" x 30". It was used with a Data General Eclipse S/140. My understanding is that the unit can be had for the price of shipping or for free you are willing to pick it up. I am willing to take care of the labor for packing and shipping. This unit will be scrapped soon if a home cannot be found for it. --pec -------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Antique Computer Collection: http://www.wco.com/~pcoad/machines.html

28 years, 5 months

Software Needed

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

Hello... I just got that spiffy coco2 emulator, and I need software for it... Thanks in Advance, Tim D. Hotze

28 years, 5 months

HD Floppies in DD Drives

by Philip.Belben＠powertech.co.uk

> William Donzelli wrote: > > > says that they will last at least ten years. The best solution (other than > > mylar punched tape) is probably the older WORM drives (not MOs!), as they > > Purely out of morbid curiosity, has anybody ever considered making Tyvek > tape? The stuff is damned near impossible to tear and difficult even to > stretch enough to lose data. That is actually a very good idea. I shall dig out some tyvek samples and cut some inch-wide strips for initial tests. If this is OK, I shall contact the manufacturers. I'll post results here, but can't make any promises as to timescale. FWIW I kept some tyvek samples (from an office supplies catalogue) for use as gasket paper on my car. Works a treat on things like carburettors, gear levers, etc. Don't fancy trying it on cylinder heads, though... Philip.

28 years, 5 months

For Trade: (New) Inmac 16 sector 5 1/4" floppy disks

by bill_r＠inetnebr.com

I need some 5 1/4" 10-sector floppies for my various "classic/antique" machines. I thought that was what I was buying in a recent on-line auction. What I ended up with was 16-sector floppies. I don't even know what uses these; certainly nothing I have. Accordingly, I'm offering to trade for 10-sector versions. These are Inmac DS,DD, 16 hard sector 5 1/4" disks with envelopes. Quantity 30 (3 boxes of 10). Two boxes are still factory shrink-wrapped. The 3rd was until I opened it to verify that I'd gotten the wrong thing; none were used. Make a trade offer, or alternatively, does anyone know where and how much I might be able to just *buy* some 10-sectors? -Bill Richman bill_r(a)inetnebr.com http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "When they took the fourth amendment, I was quiet because I didn't deal drugs. When they took the sixth amendment, I was quiet because I was innocent. When they took the second amendment, I was quiet because I didn't own a gun. Now they've taken the first amendment, and I can say nothing about it." -www.paranoia.com

28 years, 5 months

Model 100, again

by manney＠nwohio.com

>Ok, I still haven't been able to find out what's wrong with the LCD in my >Tandy Model 100 (the rest of the machine works fine, as I was able to tell >by blind-writing BASIC progs that beep the speaker). Just type PRINT CHR$(7), which will process ASCII BEL (Control G).

28 years, 5 months

One from the 'believe it or not' file...

by lfb107＠psu.edu

>In a message dated 97-11-17 12:20:14 EST, HOTZE put forth: >RE: the unix box, and the issue whether to power it up: >back in the 1980s i collected beer cans and it was clearly established that >cans were worth more if full, or emptied from the bottom so the drink tab was >left undisturbed and full 6packs were the most valuable, so i say if it's >left alone, it would be "worth" more. i have an unused ibm 5150 in the >original box with the original cardboard shipping disks along with the >original keyboard in its' box. they may not be worth a lot now, but will be >eventually, especially with their boxes and documentation. >david I think we are forgetting one thing. Sure the 7300 would technically be "worth" more still in the box, but there is a limit to what you'll be able to actually get. You see these things very often for free (3B2's as well) on the comp.sys.att newsgroup so what does that make it worth then? I would have to vote for "just use it." Any parts can be scavenged from PC's or usually for free on the ng. LeS

28 years, 5 months

One from the 'believe it or not' file...

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 04:38 PM 11/17/97 +0000, you wrote: > EXACTLY!!!! There are people who collect baseball cards (Somehthing which > I DO NOT do) and leave them in the packaging.... they don't even know what > cards are inside.... for all they know, the information could lead them to I know a guy who has a collection of CA lottery tickets (the $1 scratch-off tickets) that is complete (except one that he missed). One of each type, unscratched. Sure, he could be missing out on $10k or something, but to him, having the collection is worth more. (He also has a collection of scratched ones.) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn(a)ricochet.net that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 5 months

One from the 'believe it or not' file...

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 97-11-17 12:20:14 EST, HOTZE put forth: > You see... that's the thing... I don't have anywhere to start but HERE. I've > really only been REALLY interested in the PC business since '93, and > collecting classics since May... I don't have ANYTHING.... I don't know > anybody (except all of you lovely people out there....), and so I need > somewhere to start... IBMs seem to be what I'm good at (I program them now > as > a hobby, so I know x86) I would take an IBM/PC, or, if they're easy to find, > > a PC jr. well, gee, i have an extra pcjr and power supply laying around here... dont know what shipping would be, however. RE: the unix box, and the issue whether to power it up: back in the 1980s i collected beer cans and it was clearly established that cans were worth more if full, or emptied from the bottom so the drink tab was left undisturbed and full 6packs were the most valuable, so i say if it's left alone, it would be "worth" more. i have an unused ibm 5150 in the original box with the original cardboard shipping disks along with the original keyboard in its' box. they may not be worth a lot now, but will be eventually, especially with their boxes and documentation. david

28 years, 5 months

Coco For "Sale"

by dfitts1＠pdq.net

Sirs, I received your name from Bill Yakowenko. I have a TRS-8080 Color Computer 2 with mod kit to solve the overheating problem and memory upgrade. My system also includes a disk drive, multi-pak interface, cassette recorder, x-pad graphics tablet, deluxe joysticks, external serial/parallel port interface, X-10 light/appliance controller, light pen, editor/assembler module and parts for an experimenter's I/O port. I also have OS-9 and numerous other programs and very much documentation including all original manuals. Finally, I have many Color Computer magazines, including almost every issue of Color Computer News. I'm interested in finding this equipment a good home at extremely low or no price other than postage. I'm not sure what services you provide but if you post messages such as the above would you please post this? Too, what is your website address? Thanks, David Fitts

28 years, 5 months

tape readers unique solution

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Could cut some canned trannys open that is touchy to light and fill They all are! 2n5777 is a good photodarlington I've used a few. <those sensors from dead mouses, you can use either IR LED or strong <light. (YES! those light bulbs generate lot of IR). At lower than optimum voltage the IR is very there! IR however penetrates some paper tapes real well (if oil soaked better than white light!). It's been years since I've built one but I could reproduce it in an afternoon or two if need be. Allison

28 years, 5 months

HD Floppies in DD Drives

by engine＠chac.org

At 13:29 11/15/97 -0500, you wrote: >I don't think that indestructibility of the tape is the issue...the coating >is the problem -- sliding across the head. What are you gonna bond to Tyvek? No, no, no! Tyvek PUNCHED tape! Coat nothing! Build a carbide punch-head.... Pull it through whippin' fast, like Colossus. __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine(a)chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California

28 years, 5 months

help needed on a amiga 500

by darlene＠iamerica.net

It sounds like your machine needs a good cleaning, the disk drive is not reading the disk"maybe". I have four working commodore c64 computers, and the drives need to be cleaned. Even more after laying around for a long period of time. If your drive turns when you try to load something it sounds like it could be a dirty drive. It's not much to go on, but I have seen these small things stop folks in their tracks. good luck, bad eye bill.

28 years, 5 months

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