Very simply, I have a two year old wintel desktop, which does indeed have ISA
slots, and runs Win95. I tried to install an ARCNet card, and I couldn't
correctly configure all of the stuff (IRQ, RAM, DMA, etc.), though I had the
dip switch information. What I have is a half-length CMD card. Since I
couldn't configure it, I gave up. But, if anyone has any hints....
In a message dated 97-12-08 23:35:01 EST, you write:
<< Captain Napalm wrote:
>
> It was thus said that the Great Zeus334 once stated:
> >
> > I don't have access to network cards (except maybe ARCNet, which I
couldn't
> > run on my P*****), and I was wondering if there is a way to have a
transparent
> > null modem-based network. IE, could I connect two computers with a null
modem,
> > and then change to the other computer's drive by typing x: (or mount
> > /dev/hdxxx, or whatever).
> >
> Why can't you run ARCNet cards? Linux has drivers for them (although
that
> is assuming the ARCNet card is for a ISA bus).
>
> It is possible to use a serial connection by running PPP as a transport,
> which supports IP (and thus you can use NFS to mount drives).
>
> -spc (I suppose since ARCNet is over 10 years, and TCP/IP is over 10
> years this counts 8-)
The first coax network I ever installed was Tandy ARCnet, Model IIs as
server and workstations. Unfortunately, those never had any way to hook
up to network operating systems that the PC stuff dealt with, and there
were never drivers for those boards for Tandy Xenix, though a shitload of
R&D money got spent in Fort Worth trying to make it so.
Since most non-laptop "P******" machines still have ISA slots, there's
no reason an ARCnet card wouldn't work. It's faster than serial PPP and
more machines can connect conveniently.
--
Ward Griffiths >>
At 09:26 PM 12/8/97 -0500, you wrote:
>Or... dare I say it... linux on a TRS-80 Model 100/102/200??? :)
Rick <something-or-other-my-mind-is-gone> of Club 100 mentioned once that
there is a company that uses m100's with a version of Unix running on them.
Unfortunately (and yes, I asked) he said they won't release it to the
public. But, at least that means it's doable!
P.S., the m100 is 8085-based, so 6502-linux wouldn't help much.
--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-
Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/
>elisa? that program that asks you the same open ended question? i may have
a
>similar program if there really is an interest.
Yep, that one. It is a BIG interest. It's probably classic content as the
older versions go back to Turing's Law. I've found a Java applet that
simulates the Turing machine.
Thanks,
Tim D. Hotze
At 02:31 PM 12/8/97 -0800, you wrote:
>Looking ahead in my e-mail queue I see there is a flurry of responses to
>this question, and I can guess what everyone else' response is as well.
>
>But I have two syllables for you: Linux.
With only 640k? I think I've settled on the xt/286 version of minix. I don't
want a big investment, and I'm no hard core linux user myself. I know my way
around, but I like experimenting with new things on these old things
(computers, that is.)
- John Higginbotham
- limbo.netpath.net
Greetings.
Seems like everybody reports in when they get a big haul. Well, I don't
have the money or the room for my own personal big haul, so I'll report on
what is available for sale here at the University of Michigan Property
Disposal. All sales are final. You have the opportunity to test machines
in the warehouse, but they don't have 220v available.
This list probably isn't complete, and it's sometimes hard to find
information (manuals, model numbers, telling the difference between a HP
scientific instrument and a HP minicomputer, etc.). So here goes:
Apollo
Domain Series 10000 (@ of these at $250 each)
CPT 8510 (Terminal with 8" floppy, no other information)
Digital
MicroVAX 3900 w/RA82 \
TU81 Plus and RA82 >- Apparently all from one pull
Constant Voltage Conditioner /
Disembodied RA81
VAXstation II/GPX (2 of these)
PDP-11 FORTRAN manual
Some VAXstation 3100 stuff
GE
I have no idea. It's about 3-3 1/2 feet tall, 1 1/2 feet wide.
Has two 8" drives on the front. Priced at $150.
HP
7914 (looked like a computer... maybe...)
IBM
Model 5551 (Says "Hard Disk Model" on the front. Also has a floppy
disk slot.)
Prime Computer Inc.
Model # 2250P ($100)
SGI
Power Series Iris 4D/210GTX ($1500 w/monitor)
Power Series Iris 4D/GTX ($1500: no monitor)
IRIS 3130
Stardent ($100. No other information)
Sun
3/50 (1 regular and 1 with a scooped out case top for a matching
monitor)
-Neil
---------------------------------------------------+-------------------
"There is more to life than increasing its speed." | Neil McNeight
-Mahatma Gandhi | mcneight(a)umich.edu
---------------------------------------------------+-------------------
If you're interested in any of this stuff, please reply directly to
the ORIGINAL author, NOT me! I don't have any of this, but am only
forwarding the message in the hopes that this stuff can find good homes.
Attachment follows.
-=-=- <snip> -=-=-
Path:
Supernews70!Supernews60!supernews.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!Cabal.CESspool!bofh.vszbr.cz!newscore.univie.ac.at!newsfeed.skynet.be!poster.skynet.be!not-for-mail
From: "ghandy" <ghandy007(a)hotmail.com>
Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec
Subject: Microvax 3100 VALUE ?
Date: 8 Dec 1997 23:39:26 GMT
Organization: Mc Andy
Lines: 13
Message-ID: <01bd0432$554b0e20$5c0b0dc3@superbabe>
NNTP-Posting-Host: brus2-28.brussel.skynet.be
X-Trace: news1.skynet.be 881624366 29578 (None) 195.13.11.92
X-Complaints-To: usenet(a)news1.skynet.be
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Internet News 4.70.1161
Xref: Supernews70 comp.sys.dec:58062
What is the current value of this stuff? I'd like to sell it, but have no
clue of a normal price...
1 x DIGITAL Microvax 3100 (without harddisk)
1 x DIGITAL Dec Server 200/MC (with kables)
4 x DIGITAL keyboard and terminal screen (VT 320)
2 x LINK 125 terminal screen and keyboard
1 x NEC Pinwriter P7
2 x DIGITAL LA75 Companion Printer
2 x MOTOROLA Codex 6015 modem for leased lines (speed: 9600)
These appliances are in excellent state. 20kg of books, manuals, etc.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Bruce Lane, SysOp,
The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fido 1:343/272)
kyrrin2 {at} wiz<ards> d[o]t n=e=t
"...No matter how hard we may wish otherwise, our science can only describe
an object, event, or living creature, in our own human terms. It cannot possibly
define any of them!..."
I know this may be a little off topic, but... (How many times have we read
this?!?)
I am suprised at the number of wisened elders in my presence, People that
actually used the machines I dreamed about using in my teenaged years. I was
glad to find out all of these old systems that I wanted so bad back then
actually sport price tags today that I can afford. I have recently sold off
the large majority of my collection of late 80's computers (my wife calls it
the pile, collectively), but have learned that the real joy in using these
systems is the memories it gives me, something about each individual system
that stands out to me. I also find that using computers from another era
tends to bring me back down to earth. Most people today think these machines
are a bunch of hulking dinosnores that can't be useful except as boat
anchors in todays PC world. I know otherwise. Up until recently I had been
using a Model 100 for taking notes and doing addresses, etc. Just as good at
text entry as any P****** system is today. My boss still scoffs at me for
toting around my venerable GRiDCASE 3 (running windows 1.x) that has seen
regular use since I got it, or running Windows 3 on the old Zenith
Supersport, the topic of a quite active thread for the past day or so in
this very list. Hey, I'm not rich. If I was, I'd buy the fastest
notebook/desktop system around. But alas, I am not. The boss stops scoffing
when I tell him how much I paid for my computers and show him what they can
still run. :)
Well, that's it for the monologue. I'm sitting here listening to an
instrumental christmas cd, waiting for IE 4.01 to download, and
contemplating what will be considered old news 10 years from now.
BTW, I didn't mean anything with the "wisened elder" comment. I consider
myself an oldtimer at the young age of 27, with all these little high school
know-it-alls that memorize man pages and can recite every IP address and who
it belongs to on their ISP. I can remember the days before GUI. I was there.
Couldn't afford more than a C-64 or CoCo back then, but I remember them as
some of the best days in computer history.
A parting question: I'm not exactly sure if the HP 7450a 2-pen plotter falls
within the 10-year limit but... Does anyone know where I can get new pens
for this unit?
- John Higginbotham
- limbo.netpath.net
<Maybe with a Disk/Video interface. There's got to be a swap device
<_somewhere_. (Well, there _was_ that wedge thingie that would add up
<to 512k RAM that a firm in Glendale CA was advertising, but they never
Ram disks are fairly easy to do and banked ram as well. The PX-8 did it
to 120k. I'd heard there was a 512k wedge design out there too. I'd love
to see how that was done.
Allison
I want to thank everyone for their comments on my collection. There are
still quite a few machines that I don't have, but at least now I think I
have a pretty complete wanted list! 8^)
The suggestions from the list:
Convergent Workslate
Gavilan
HP 110 (Portable)
HP Portable Plus
HP Integral PC
Osborne 3
Osborne 4 (Vixen)
Apple //c
Apple Newton 100
Kaypro 2
Kaypro 2000
Radio Shack PC-1
Tandy/AST/Casio Zoomer
Visual Commuter
Apricot portable
Commodore SX-64
TRS-80 Model 4P
Tandy 600
And some more of my own:
Dynalogic Hyperion
Sinclair QL
Atari STacy
Atari ST Book
Atari STPad
TRS-80 Model 102
TRS-80 Model 200
Kaypro (All Models)
Amstrad Notepad (NC-100)
Otrona Attache
STM Systems Baby! 1
Teleram T-3000
Teleram Model 4000
Teleram Model 5000
Olivetti M10
--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-
Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/
At 06:21 PM 12/8/97 -0800, you wrote:
>I'd not heard of Elks, as I no longer stay on the "Bleeding Edge" of Linux.
>I'm in the process of checking it out at this moment. It looks
>interesting. Now if that 6502 support they mention as a posibility down
>the road would include the ability to run on a Apple II, or C-64, now that
>would be cool!
Or... dare I say it... linux on a TRS-80 Model 100/102/200??? :)
- John Higginbotham
- limbo.netpath.net
<I don't have access to network cards (except maybe ARCNet, which I couldn'
<run on my P*****), and I was wondering if there is a way to have a transpar
<null modem-based network. IE, could I connect two computers with a null mod
<and then change to the other computer's drive by typing x: (or mount
</dev/hdxxx, or whatever).
for dos PCs we have, laplink, norton commander, carboncopy, cosession and
that is only a few.
For linux you can have slip, ppp and a few other methods.
Allison
This will mainly be used as a dial-up machine to my service provider for
checking mail, etc. I know I can do it much easier in DOS (with this
machine), but I'm looking for a challenge. :)
At 10:15 PM 12/7/97 -0800, you wrote:
>pretty good, don't know if such a thing still exists. One thing you don't
>want to do with a 386SX/16 is any programming, it takes forever to compile!
>Although small scripts are doable.
>
>On an not so interesting note, the 40Mb HD now functions as a CP/M disk for
>my Pentium, and the Laptop is now a general purpose terminal. The 486,
>well it's the Server that ties my various platforms together, running Linux
>of course.
- John Higginbotham
- limbo.netpath.net
In a message dated 97-12-08 10:27:04 EST, you write:
<< > > How important is it to obtain computers in their "original" state? Is
it
> > worth it to save a computer that is known to have been hacked together?
>>
I myself prefer both configurations. i have a stock platinum //e which i plan
to keep that way, but then again, I have a ][+ with something called a videx
enhancer ][ which was a new keyboard encoder card which let me have type ahead
and macros and lowercase. even better than a //e keyboard! also, an old IBMer
gave me a majorly hacked timex sinclair (or one of the similar models) that
was built into a wooden case, complete with power supply, monitor and even a
full sized keyboard hacked in, mounted on a piece of scrap plexiglass! to me,
that gives character, and helps to preserve the technology of the time.
david
i was playing around with my new tandy 102 and there is a door on the bottom
which has some ROMs underneath. two are labled sony, and the other one has
some pull tabs on it, and it's labeled SUPER ROM <C> 1986. its not original
equipment, is it? it looks like it can be removed fairly easily, so i was
wondering if it had preloaded apps, like my grid laptop does. also, does
anyone have a source of basic programs for this machine? the keyboard is
rather good for typing, but i'd like to run some things on it.
david
At 02:54 PM 12/8/97 -0800, you wrote:
>Sorry, I wasn't paying attention to the RAM you had. But somebody just
>mentioned the ELKS version of Linux. Don't know what that is but it'd
>probably be owrth looking into.
I was looking at the too, but I have one install of minix already under my
belt. I think I'll give it a try first. I'm pretty sure it'll run okay,
since the version I'm shooting for is optimized for xt/286 machines. (It'll
run under 512k, but likes 640k)
- John Higginbotham
- limbo.netpath.net
Anyone know of a minimum unix or unix-like OS that will run on the following
config:
Zenith Supersport SX
386sx-16
640k
110mb HD
VGA mono
I know about minix, but am looking for something a little more robust, since
I have heard TCP/IP and other such apps don't run well or not at all under
minix. If someone can tell me otherwise, I'll use it.
- John Higginbotham
- limbo.netpath.net
I understand that you may have a heathkit analog computer for sale. I am
trying to obtain copies of the manuals (assembly & experiments). I would
be be interested in purchasing the unit if it still is available. Please
reply with price, condition, manuals. Thanks // mt (mtaylor(a)hach.com)
<And even more true in the S-100 world. Anybody who bought a system made
<solely of parts from IMSAI or MITS and didn't use third-party memory or dis
<controllers/systems was a total fool and completely ignorant of
<the blossoming S-100 industry.
Big time! The early versions *under sn ~2000 or so* had at lest a couple of
pages of mods from MITS alone.
Of the mods that were common for the 8800:
*heavier PS
*better backplane, theirs was the worst.
*CPU clock mod to use the 8224 instead of ttl and oneshots.
*MANY mods to 88mcd or 88s4k memory to make them work with
some disk controllers.
IMSAIs being about 6months later had fewer basic problems and a lesser
need for mods just to work.
Most S100 systems prior to ~1980 needed mods to allow for variations
between bus interpretations. The altair being first needed the most mods
for the newest boards.
Allison
Greetings.
I have recently developed an interest in collecting classic computers and
after (mostly) lurking on this list, I have a question that you all might
be able to answer.
How important is it to obtain computers in their "original" state? Is it
worth it to save a computer that is known to have been hacked together?
For example: I have an original Mac 128k. However, I believe that the
motherboard has been upgraded to the 512k "Fat" Mac. I purchased it at the
University of Michigan's Property Disposal warehouse, which means I was
lucky to find a matching keyboard and mouse and I have no hope of finding
the original manuals or shipping boxes for it.
Should I even bother to restore this machine to it's original state by
purchasing an original (but not _the_ original) motherboard, assuming I
can even find one, or should I just use the machine as is and forget about
any attempts at historical accuracy? At what point do I wind up with
Washington's Hatchet, or does it even matter?
Thanks for any input.
-Neil
---------------------------------------------------+-------------------
"There is more to life than increasing its speed." | Neil McNeight
-Mahatma Gandhi | mcneight(a)umich.edu
---------------------------------------------------+-------------------
<> 99 times out of a 100, I'd prefer to have the "hacked" computer rather
<> than the "original". At least in the minicomputer world, just about ever
<> modificiation is there for a very important purpose - it either fixes
<> a bug in the hardware or adds an actual enhancement. If the modificatio
More true in the micro would where standards were evolving faster that the
the hardware could be made.
<> was absolutely useful at the time it was made - and is something that
<> every sane original owner did - then it's part of the culture of the
<> machine!
The last line is where history resides. Hacks were part of the culture
and remain a legacy.
Allison
For me; at least; the interest is not for profit. It is for my own personal
enjoyment; and for history. If every Apple ][ is thrown away; once
very-common items become very rare.
-----Original Message-----
From: Olminkhof <jolminkh(a)c2.telstra-mm.net.au>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Monday, December 08, 1997 1:13 PM
Subject: Re: Importance of "original" parts
>>How important is it to obtain computers in their "original" state? Is it
>>worth it to save a computer that is known to have been hacked together?
>>
>
>I think it's worth saving anything that might eventually fill in part of a
>jigsaw.
>
>>For example: I have an original Mac 128k. However, I believe that the
>>motherboard has been upgraded to the 512k "Fat" Mac. I purchased it at the
>>University of Michigan's Property Disposal warehouse, which means I was
>>lucky to find a matching keyboard and mouse and I have no hope of finding
>>the original manuals or shipping boxes for it.
>.
>.
>>Should I even bother to restore this machine to it's original state by
>>purchasing an original (but not _the_ original) motherboard, assuming I
>>can even find one, or should I just use the machine as is and forget about
>>any attempts at historical accuracy? At what point do I wind up with
>>Washington's Hatchet, or does it even matter?
>
>Mostly, you will be very lucky to pick up the bits you want. I think
>eventually a swap culture will arrive but you need to have something to
swap
>with. We are in a rescue-from-the-garbage phase at the moment, so I believe
>in hoarding everything I find ..... that I can find space for that is!
>
>Hans
>
>How important is it to obtain computers in their "original" state? Is it
>worth it to save a computer that is known to have been hacked together?
>
I think it's worth saving anything that might eventually fill in part of a
jigsaw.
>For example: I have an original Mac 128k. However, I believe that the
>motherboard has been upgraded to the 512k "Fat" Mac. I purchased it at the
>University of Michigan's Property Disposal warehouse, which means I was
>lucky to find a matching keyboard and mouse and I have no hope of finding
>the original manuals or shipping boxes for it.
.
.
>Should I even bother to restore this machine to it's original state by
>purchasing an original (but not _the_ original) motherboard, assuming I
>can even find one, or should I just use the machine as is and forget about
>any attempts at historical accuracy? At what point do I wind up with
>Washington's Hatchet, or does it even matter?
Mostly, you will be very lucky to pick up the bits you want. I think
eventually a swap culture will arrive but you need to have something to swap
with. We are in a rescue-from-the-garbage phase at the moment, so I believe
in hoarding everything I find ..... that I can find space for that is!
Hans
At 11:51 PM 12/7/97 +0000, you wrote:
>Please dig up more memory at least 4-8mb and plug in and you will be
>happy, the hd is tad tight but doable, but you could swap the hd out
>for bigger ones. I think this one uses standard IDE 3.5" or 2.5" hd.
Sure does. I just pulled the 40mb out and put this 104mb HD in (not 110mb
like I said earlier). No problems whatsoever. The SS sx doesn't have a user
defined drive type, so the largest drive in BIOS is 220mb, but the 104mb was
the only thing laying around. he SS sx will support up to 8mb, but the
memory upgrades cost $58 each from what I could find on the internet. If my
budget allowed, I'd get it, but would like to find something cheaper.
- John Higginbotham
- limbo.netpath.net
At 12:14 AM 12/6/97 -0500, you wrote:
>The military once procured a bunch of XT-like machines that were portable
>and keyboardless. Everything was done thru a touchscreen, including a
>virtual keyboard. About five years ago, there were a bunch floating around
>the hamfests in the Chicago area.
The GridPad 1910 that I have has a 'virtual' keyboard. Nice machine; I just
wish I could find some GPS/Mapping software that would run on it so I could
mount it in my Land Rover... (Or a 486/pentium version?)
>> How about a portable UNIX workstation with a ~21" gas plasma display? I've
>> actually seen such a beast.
>
>Yes, portable Unix machines do exist! The SPARCstation Voyager is somewhat
>like what you describe. It is a luggable monster, and was replaced by the
>SPARCbooks some time ago.
The problem with the Sun notebooks (which I'd *love* to have if anyone wants
to get rid of one) is that they're darned expensive and I'm poor. 8^) I
suspect a unix workstation with a 21" gas plasma display ain't gonna be
cheap either!
--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-
Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/
