The Baltimore County Public Schools have 100's of old (286 & earlier) PC
that need a disposal outlet. We are looking for companies that buy old
machines for resale in third-world countries. Any info that you have
that will help us to identifiy companies in this business will be
greatly appreciated. Larry Mathison (410) 887-7838,
LMATHISON(a)BCPS.ORG.
<95% true, but using RLL on stepper is fine but the main problem was
<when the maker produced drives to work with RLL used faster stepper
No it wasn't due to a lot of factors. one being the interface cable length
was more critical and since most stepper drives didn't recalibrate for
temperature after while they tended to mistrack the data and RLL has a
poorer signal to noise ratio so it would suffer more.
<design (makers tends to pack with lastest on next generation and
<leave the older alone instead of improving it more to pack more info
<instead of increassing performance which is perferable.) and that
<also include fast stepper type seeking on MFM drives as well. That's
<where you see the trouble. Noisy stepper ones tends to wear out
<than those ones that does quietly and slowly.
This is a long winded way to say, we suffered from designs that were
marginal from being pushed to far.
<Voice coil is best way to up the performance and pack more info.
It helps and is faster too but the overhead is the servo tracks or
embedded servo info. That overhead on some dries is the loss of a
side on one platter and that can represent a lot of data. Also the
servo system is more complex and expensive. This is offset by lowered
cost of hardware(electronics) as time progressed.
Allison
uh, right! and would you mind telling the audience how you crammed a square
386 chip into the xt's dip socket???
In a message dated 98-01-07 17:05:26 EST, you write:
<< [Overclocking]
I once had a PC/XT overclocked to 25 or so MHz. It caught fire...
Basically, I just pulled the chip marked 25 MHz from a dead 386
and put it where the XT's ship was. It took about 10 minutes to start
emitting black smoke.
This was before I knew they were useful...
------- >>
I have them all, i.e., 64, 64C, and a 64 in a 64C look alike case. Although
not as common as the classic 64, the 64C is not at all rare. I found a
complete one with a matching 1541C drive at a thrift the other day for $5.
Among the Commodore community the consensus is that although functionally
the same, some of the chips in the 64C had been upgraded (if I remember
correctly, specificly the sound chips among others), and it is therefore
more desirable than the standard 64.
Cliff Gregory
cgregory(a)lrbcg.com
-----Original Message-----
From: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
To: Cgregory <Cgregory>
Date: Thursday, January 08, 1998 1:36 AM
Subject: Re: C-64c, How common?
>
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>From: Cord Coslor <archive(a)navix.net>
>To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers"
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
>Subject: Re: C-64c, How common?
>References: <199801080420.OAA02158(a)arthur.merlin.net.au>
>X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN
>
>I have a C64c, although I haven't found them to be very common. This unit
may
>be for sell as well if anyone is looking for one. Also, I too found a C64
in a
>third party case that looked just like the c-64... and it also was made in
>Australia. I can get this for anyone that might want this unit as well. Let
me
>know.
>
>CORD COSLOR
>
>adam(a)merlin.net.au wrote:
>
>> >I'm starting to wonder about how common the C-64c is. I have yet to see
>> >one, I picked up the manuals when a favorite bookstore had a set a few
>> >months back. Then last weekend I was at the bookstore and they had like
3
>> >or 4 sets of manual. But like I said I've never seen an actual
computer!
>>
>> I'm assuming you mean the different case design - over here (South
>> Australia) they seem to be as common as the old breadbox sort, but I
>> suspect that in numbers they are slightly less than the older designs. I
>> have three of them, and I only wanted the one. As far as I know there are
>> no functional changes, although Commodore had a history of working out
>> ways to make systems cheaper, so there may be a difference internally.
>>
>> I did find one old C64 in a third-party case which looked very much like
>> the C64c, though. Interestingly enough it was made here - I would have
>> picked it up, but I shy away from collecting computers based on the
>> different cases, as there are too many to collect just based on the
>> different systems themselves, and space is limited.
>>
>> Adam.
>
>
>
>
>Well, I've found a source of PS/2 parts/systems, but it'll cost. It's a
>company. They seem to have tons of the stuff. Their URL is
>http://www.kahlon.com . The problem is that they list(ed) a Model 55SX as
>$249, but that did include a monitor. Well, you could probably say that
you
>collect classics and that that price is way out of whack, but that might
not
>work....
>Tim D. Hotze
I suspect that here in Sydney, Australia the price of PS/2's is about to
tumble to insignificance. It seems a lot of corporations bought whole
networks of them in the early 90's and they are at the end of their
usefulness when they move away from DOS/Win3.1 I have recently seen model
70 boxes advertised for $A30 and actually acquired a model 76 box for $A70,
with 8Mb and 200Mb SCSI. (thats about $US20 and $US45)
I've gotten back to looking into getting the my VAXstation up and running.
This has gotten me to thinking, how many MIPS is a VUP?
Zane
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator |
| healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast |
| healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ |
| For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. |
| see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html |
Well, I've found a source of PS/2 parts/systems, but it'll cost. It's a
company. They seem to have tons of the stuff. Their URL is
http://www.kahlon.com . The problem is that they list(ed) a Model 55SX as
$249, but that did include a monitor. Well, you could probably say that you
collect classics and that that price is way out of whack, but that might not
work....
Tim D. Hotze
-----Original Message-----
From: jpero(a)cgo.wave.ca <jpero(a)cgo.wave.ca>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Thursday, January 08, 1998 4:18 AM
Subject: Re: The IBM PS/2 model 70 again! -E61
Hi!
> I have this model in my collection. i managed to get it for $25 but have
not
> been able to test it since mine came with a radius two page display card
which
> is useless without the monitor. i finally did get a 1bit video card for
it,
> but now need to find a mono display for it which i still havent found! the
cx
> is a 68030 running at 16mhz. a better deal would be the IIci model which
is
> 25mhz and built in video which can be used with a vga monitor if you use a
> special dongle.
I noticed after I surfed the net, and I do remember it had no video
card. BUMMER! If it was IIci, I would grab it.
> RE: ps2 models; I have 3 of them: two 8530 and a 9577. the model 77 i
bought
> from work when they upgraded to pc300 desktops. two scsi adaptors, 16 meg,
200
> 400meg scsi drives running hpfs and os2 3.0. its an industrial strength
> machine, and will probably outlive any other computer i own.
David, how cheap did you gotten some of these parts through this
mail list? Model 77? I do not know this specs, kindly tell me what
about this? :)
My book does not list this Model 77.
Jason D.
> david.
<I once had a PC/XT overclocked to 25 or so MHz. It caught fire...
<Basically, I just pulled the chip marked 25 MHz from a dead 386
<and put it where the XT's ship was. It took about 10 minutes to start em
I find this a good story. ;-) The fastest 8088 ever made was 10mhz if
you squint it may hit 12. As far as putting a 386 in a 8088
socket...there is the matter of the 100 or so extra pins.
Oh, if the 25 mhz clock was input to the 8284A then the cpu clock would
be 8.333mhz... almost believable save for the rest of the logic on the xt
board would not generally run that fast without adding waitstates.
Allison
Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> In fact what's really holding me back is that I don't have a
> specification of the CS/80 or amigo command sets (the commands that HP
> used for their drives, and which are sort-of a de-facto standard). If
> anyone has this spec, I'll consider building this interface.
Well, Tony, once upon a time I think I was thinking about sending you
some chunks of the 7941/7945 service manual that describe some portion
of the CS/80 protocol used by those devices. I vaguely recall it was
enough of a subset that we came to the conclusion that it wouldn't
help, but if you still think it would be useful send me your postal
address and I will make a trip to the copy shop.
Also it is my understanding that the "hp300" flavors of NetBSD and
OpenBSD contain working code to talk to CS/80 devices. It may be in
the 4.4-Lite BSD release, I think that is where I remember seeing it
first.
The CS/80 command-set reference is one of those manuals that HP Direct
refused to sell me. I had the part number, and the HP Direct folks
told me that it had been withdrawn from offer. Maybe I should give
that another shot; it's been some years ago now.
...
More vague memories: not all HP-IB discs talk CS/80. There was also
a "subset" or "simple" protocol, SS/80. Was that "Amigo"? I can't
remember. I think it is the protocol used by the 91xx discs, and
those are what the Integral seems to recognize.
-Frank McConnell
At 05:46 PM 1/5/98 -0800, you wrote:
>>It's recycling.
Don't get pissed off. Look at it as an opportunity. They're in business to
make money; they don't care about preserving history or any goody-two-shoes
thing like that. So offer 'em 5 cents/pound more than the melters if you
get first crack at older systems.
And, contrary to what the media seems to think, continued used is actually
better than recycling something. (Which is why I drive a 38 year old car
rather than a brand new, *recyclable* one that doesn't get any better gas
mileage.)
--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-
Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/
At 03:57 PM 1/6/98 +0300, you wrote:
>586 compatible processor for 486/DX4 motherboards that works at 133MHz.
>Those go for around $500.
I had one of those. Had it overclocked to 160mhz, beat the pants of a P100.
I think I paid $150 for the board and chip about a year and a half ago. I
wonder what that'll look like next to the systems 10 years from now?
-John Higginbotham-
-limbo.netpath.net-
Found on Usenet. Please respond directly to him if you can help.
-=-=- <snip> -=-=-
Path: Supernews70!Supernews69!not-for-mail
From: Dale Toney <dale(a)blueridge.net>
Newsgroups: vmsnet.pdp-11
Subject: Looking for a PDP-11
Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 15:07:10 -0500
Organization: All USENET -- http://www.Supernews.com
Lines: 10
Message-ID: <34B3E06E.2120EDF9(a)blueridge.net>
Reply-To: dale(a)blueridge.net
NNTP-Posting-Host: 15767(a)205.152.121.8
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I)
Xref: Supernews70 vmsnet.pdp-11:9088
Hi,
I am in North Carolina and looking for a used pdp-11 to buy. I broke my
teeth in on pdp-11's and vax/vms, and would like to find one to tinker
with. Any help in locating one would be appreciated.
thanks,
--
Dale
mailto:dale@blueridge.net
-=-=- <pins> -=-=-
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Bruce Lane, SysOp,
The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fido 1:343/272)
kyrrin2 {at} wiz<ards> d[o]t n=e=t
"...No matter how hard we may wish otherwise, our science can only describe
an object, event, or living creature, in our own human terms. It cannot possibly
define any of them!..."
<I didn't put the 386 in the XT socket. I just pulled the clock xtal from
<386 and put in in the XT. It wasn't a real IBM PC, it was a clone.
<-------
Bit more believable. A 25mhz crystal used on the 8284a nets 8.333 at the
processor clock input and that would make a XT-turbo. The problem with
such a speed up is that the peripherals and the ram have to be faster as
well to keep up.
I have a Leading Edge Mod D that I've tried that on and 6mhz(18mhz
crystal) was possible before needing to add wait states for IO and
memory. With one wait for both IO and mem 8mhz was doable. I wasn't
overclocking the cpu as it was a 10mhz V20. I may add at 6mhz the
average 8088 was likely to still be there as they were good for a shade
over 5mhz for the slow parts.
Allison
How fast did it run?
In a message dated 98-01-07 17:05:26 EST, you write:
<< [Overclocking]
I once had a PC/XT overclocked to 25 or so MHz. It caught fire...
Basically, I just pulled the chip marked 25 MHz from a dead 386
and put it where the XT's ship was. It took about 10 minutes to start
emitting black smoke.
This was before I knew they were useful...
------- >>
At 17:15 6/01/98 -0500, PG Manney wrote:
>> > MFM (early 80's?)
>>
>> Very early 80's, I think, for the ST-506.
>>
>> > RLL (late 80's?)
>>
>> I tend to think of this as a minor variation of MFM, myself :-)
>
>Not quite. The interface is the same (ST-506/412), but the encoding is
>different.
>
>RLL-encoded ST-506/412 drives were finicky, especially as regards
>temperature -- you shouldn't LLF them cold, for example.
The problem, however, as I understand it, wasn't the ST-506/412 interface
itself, it was the fact that most of the drives that used this interface
used stepper motors to move the R/W heads. The high-end voice-coil drives
that used the
ST-506/412 interface were *far* more reliable, and usually didn't have any
problems using RLL encoding.
Regards,
| Scott McLauchlan |"Sometimes the need to mess with their heads|
|Information Services Division| outweighs the millstone of humiliation." |
| University of Canberra |__________Fox_Mulder_"The_X-Files:_Squeeze"_|
| scott(a)isd.canberra.edu.au |http://www.canberra.edu.au/~scott/home.html |
In a message dated 98-01-07 17:05:26 EST, you write:
<< I once had a PC/XT overclocked to 25 or so MHz. It caught fire...
Basically, I just pulled the chip marked 25 MHz from a dead 386
and put it where the XT's ship was. It took about 10 minutes to start
emitting black smoke.
This was before I knew they were useful... >>
A friend of mine once told me that they used to replace the 1mhz? crystal
on Kim-1 boards with an 8mhz crystal. Man, that 6502 was real fast for a
while. :-)
Well, we have 10 IIcis, 10 Powermac 5400/180s (slow as molasses) 1 clone, 2
quadras. They are all used, the IIcis are limited in usefullness, because of
the lack of FDD functionality
In a message dated 98-01-07 20:18:49 EST, you write:
<< This will help lot. Otherwise, replace them with newer Mac clones.
Cheaper in long run and less headache especially if they're at
school lab still used? Also these clones uses regular 15pin monitors
that was used for PC's.
>>
Can someone please help this man? Please send your replies to:
COCarlson(a)aol.com
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 17:13:00 EST
From: COCarlson <COCarlson(a)aol.com>
To: vcf(a)siconic.com
Subject: help
I need a command interpreter (command.com?) for a Kaypro XT. I had backed up
the files and was then removing files in preparation for giving this computer
to a grandchild. I accidentally deleted the system files. I have them backed
up, but I can't get to the "restore" option until I can boot the computer.
Actually, a Low density "system" diskette would be great.
COCarlson(a)aol.com
In a message dated 98-01-07 15:26:19 EST, you write:
<< One Mac IIcx - what good about this
one? I used to work on similar configuration of that model
when I was at college doing homework. Comments please. >>
I have this model in my collection. i managed to get it for $25 but have not
been able to test it since mine came with a radius two page display card which
is useless without the monitor. i finally did get a 1bit video card for it,
but now need to find a mono display for it which i still havent found! the cx
is a 68030 running at 16mhz. a better deal would be the IIci model which is
25mhz and built in video which can be used with a vga monitor if you use a
special dongle.
RE: ps2 models; I have 3 of them: two 8530 and a 9577. the model 77 i bought
>from work when they upgraded to pc300 desktops. two scsi adaptors, 16 meg, 200
400meg scsi drives running hpfs and os2 3.0. its an industrial strength
machine, and will probably outlive any other computer i own.
david.
I like the IIcis. They're cute little things. Pretty fast, too. The only
problem, and I'm wondering if anyone could help me, is this. My experience
with them was in a Macintosh Lab at a school. They have been used there for ~7
years. They have two problems. One is that the monitors power up
intermittently, probably due to the transformer. Ideas? The other is the disk
drives. They were all blown out with compressed air, but still didn't start
working correctly. Ideas?
> a better deal would be the IIci model which is
> 25mhz and built in video which can be used with a vga monitor if you use a
> special dongle.
<I've got a line on a Tektronix 6132 workstations, and I'm wondering what
<exactly it is. According to the current owner it runs Berkeley UNIX ver
<4.2 with some 4.3 extensions. Apparently it's been sitting in a closet
<unused for the last 8 years, so who knows if it's working. He also
<referred to it as a UTek workstation.
<
<I didn't even know Tek made any computers, and web searches bring up zilc
Look inside it may be a DEC PDP-11 series machine in differnt garb.
Allison
At 08:39 PM 1/6/98 -0800, you wrote:
>The absolute
>standout First Prize response was from Uncle Roger, with such
>a bizzare comment that I am left speechless -- thanx Unc -- I
Woohoo! I won! Yippee!
What do I get?
--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-
Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/
There is an awesome B205 page at the University of Virginia, plus
a pretty cool B5000 page nearby. Here's the URL:
http://www.cs.virginia.edu/brochure/images/manuals
It looks like they scanned in the original manuals for these beasties,
instead of just retyping them. Seeing the originals really adds to
the presentation, IMHO. And the B205 was _so_ cool - magnetic drum
as main memory! Those were the days.
Cheers,
Bill.
In a message dated 98-01-07 02:11:50 EST, you write:
<< I also picked up a Bernoulli box (that takes the 8" cartridges) and some
cartridges and can't recall who had the cartridges they were offering to
a good home. If whoever you are reads this, please send me an email.
That was $10 as well.
>>
Ah, that was me. I have 45 of the little beggers. Willing to let them go for
cost of shipping + soda money. Let me know how many you want.
Kelly
KFergason(a)aol.com
<The shiny layer is aluminum. I heard of someone who threw a
<favorite cd into lake in frustration, but few years later, found it
<again, it's ruined.
What people fail to realize is that plastics for the most part are not
hermetic! Over time most plastics absorb water and water will react
with aluminum to ozidize it. Same for plastic encapsulated chips!!!
It's that permeability of plastics that cause anything encapsulated
in them to degrade ofver time unless the material is passivated or
chemically stable (gold, platinum...). Heat accelerates the reactions.
Allison
