< He's got to be thinking of the HP 9800 series. I'm not sure when the
I gotta get that sex change. It happens it's MS Allison and I don't have
the problem of the wife objecting. Anyhow 9800 series it was most likely
as when I'd seen it it was not new and I was doing 8008 design when that
part was $180 each!
Allison
OK, I've powered on both of the systems with the PDP-11/73 processor boards
in it. I now know that they are apparently "SMS 1000" machines, but I've
been able to find nothing on it on the net, except for a web page that has
a picture of one in a 'tower' case
http://staff.motiv.co.uk/~kevan/collection/manufacturer-sms/1000.html
Mine is in a rack mount case though.
It has 5 buttons and a small alphanumeric LED display that gives some
system info when the system is powering up. I'm quite honestly not sure
how to proceed. I've connected a laptop running TELIX for VT100 emulation.
This gave me some trouble initially, but it started working once I added a
"Null Modem" adapter I had (trust me you don't want to see the console
cable I put together with three adapters).
The display and buttons are layed out like this.
+-----------------------------+
| DISPLAY |
+-----------------------------+
+------+------+------+------+
| MENU | < | > | * |
+--+---+---+--+---+--+---+--+
| RE | RUN | WRT |
| START | HALT | PROT |
+-------+------+------+
On the one with the 5.25" floppy I get the following when it comes up.
SMS 1000 BOOTSTRAP
256KW MEMORY 11/73 CPU
BOOTABLE DEVICES:
DEVICE DEVICE UNIT
NAME TYPE NUMBERS
DU DSA 0-15
MU TK50 0
MS TS 0
ENTER DEVICE NAME AND UNIT NUMBER: AUTO - BOOT
BOOTING FROM DEVICE 0
***THIS VOLUME DOES NOT CONTAIN A HARDWARE BOOTABLE SYSTEM ***
000034
@
On the one with the 8" I get
HELLO MIKE BOOTSTRAP
256KW MEMORY 11/73 CPU
BOOTABLE DEVICES:
DEVICE DEVICE UNIT
NAME TYPE NUMBERS
DU DSA 0-15
MU TK50 0
MS TS 0
ENTER DEVICE NAME AND UNIT NUMBER: AUTO - BOOT
BOOTING FROM DEVICE 1
BOOT-U-CI/O error
000724
@
I played around and they both appear to default to the correct device
numbers for Hard Drives. It gives me a *** DEVICE NOT IN SYSTEM *** if I
try to access MU0 or MS0. Well, MU0 is no surprise, I know it doesn't have
a TK50 in it, but I've no idea what the TS is, or how I would, or if I
could boot from floppy.
The 'C' in BOOT-U-CI/O error is actually a wierd c like character with a
little squiggely under it.
I'm assuming the first simply doesn't have an OS, and that the second has
some sort of hardware problem, most likely a dead Hard Drive. I've tried
to ensure that all the connections on both are good. I've learned that
typing in 173000G at the @ prompt will get me back to the "ENTER DEVICE
NAME AND UNIT NUMBER:" and that I can then specify a device instead of
letting it go with it's own choice.
Does anyone have any suggestions as to what I can do at this point? I'm
guessing not much until I can scrounge an OS from somewhere. Is it
possible to attach the RL02's from the /44 and see if I can boot off of
those? What kind of a card does it take to interface with a RL02?
Zane
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator |
| healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast |
| healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ |
| For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. |
| see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html |
-----Original Message-----
From: Uncle Roger <sinasohn(a)ricochet.net>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Monday, January 12, 1998 2:40 AM
Subject: What I did this weekend
>A busy weekend, actually.
>
>1) I took pictures of a bunch of systems:
> Amstrad PPC640
I didn't know these were available in the US. I just hauled one back
(PPC512) from France last week and I thought that I had a very original
portable (even though it got pretty heavy waiting for customs;)
Were there any other of the Amstrad marketted in the US like the CPC series?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Francois Auradon.
Visit the SANCTUARY at http://home.att.net/~francois.auradon
"Zane H. Healy" <healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>>I've got one in the basement... six-seven years ago, I even had it
>>fired up over DECnet, talking to Macs and Amigas over Ethernet.
>>Haven't gotten around to documenting it for my web page, though.
>
>Ah, what does it take to get it talking to Mac's and Amiga's? I'm assuming
>if this can be done for the DEC Pro 350, I can do something simular with
>the 11/73 or a VAX.
Well, it takes DECnet networking software. For a while, my company made
and sold a version of DECnet for the Amiga, a licensed port of the
Mac DECnet called TSSnet from Thursby Software <http://www.thursby.com/>.
I don't even have a copy any more, and I've long forgotten how to
use it. You might be able to find a used copy. Don't even bother
to ask Thursby for an Amiga version.
- John
Jefferson Computer Museum <http://www.threedee.com/jcm>
At 04:43 PM 1/11/98 -0600, you wrote:
>On Sun, 11 Jan 1998, Zane H. Healy wrote:
>
>> >> first portable computer
>> >
>> >Again, same problem. Define "portable". Allison carted, what was it, a
>>
>> Well, if you believe the Smithsonian's "Museum of American History" and I
>> believe DEC's advertising this goes to one of the PDP's, I don't remember
>> which one. I don't think it was a -8 or -11, and it's been over four years
>> since I was last to the museum so my memory isn't the best. They showed
>> the computer being in the back of a convertible IIRC, and actually had the
>> computer there at the musuem. Big sucker.
>
>Wasn't there a DEC ad showing a PDP-8 fitting in the trunk (boot, or is
>that a hood or bonnet?) of a VW bug? Would that qualify it as portable?
Don't know about that one, but the PDP-8/i was available in a (rarely seen)
'pedistal' configuration that would have been fairly easy to move around,
and the PDP-8/e/f/m came in a 'desktop' configuration that even had handles
on the side. (the 'major' qualification for something to be considered
'portable'). At about 90 pounds for the complete (core, no disks)
configuration, it could be moved with minimal pain by two people...
-jim
---
jimw(a)agora.rdrop.com
The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw
Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174
<Close, the Altair 8800 was introduced as the cover project in the Januar
<1975 issue of Popular Electroncs.
Back in those days the January 1975 issues was recieved by mid december at
the latest. I know as the cover of my issue has the last of MITS numbers
and a $1300 total and a mailing date in december 1974.
Also the machine on the cover bore only a resemblance to the production
machine as it was a proto.
ALlison
Can anyone help this guy? Please respond directly to him.
Thanks,
--pec
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Antique Computer Collection: http://www.wco.com/~pcoad/machines.html
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 10:12:00 +0100
From: Haering Martin <MARTIN.HAERING(a)hl.siemens.de>
To: Paul E Coad <pcoad(a)wco.com>
Subject: AW: Re: MCS-85 manual wanted
Hello Paul,
thank you very much for your quick respose.
You're right, I'm german and I can see the problem with shipping. But I
think we would find a solution there.
But let me first tell you that my problem has changed now. I looked for
the MCS-85 manual on my loft and - under a thick layer dust - i found it
there. But instantly my next problem arised: I'm looking now for the
SDK-85 manual. Even though the System Development Kit is described in
the MCS-85 book, I need more detailed information to operate my old SDK
board.
Can you help me with this matter, too. I can see on several web pages,
that some of your universities still use the MCS-85 and ask for the SDK
manual for the lessons, but I can't get the manual itself over the net
or any source to buy it.
Now my question is: Do you have the SDK-85 manual for sale yourself or
can you tell me a source or seller to get it?
Thank you for your support in advance
Martin
----------
A busy weekend, actually.
1) I took pictures of a bunch of systems:
Atari Portfolio
Radio Shack Model 100
Epson HX-20
NEC PC-8401a
GRiD GRiDCase 3
NEC PC-8201A
Apple Mac Portable
Hewlett-Packard LS/12
Data General DG One
Altima 2
IBM PC Radio
Amstrad PPC640
Osborne 01
Compaq Portable 386
GRiD GRiDPad 1910
Hewlett-Packard 75D
Amstrad PenPad PDA600
Panasonic Sr. Partner
2) Got them developed
3) bought a Land Rover (actually, 2)
4) wrote a system to automatically generate web pages for each of my
computers based on simple data files. It uses 4 data files: Text,
Resources, misc. Data, and Image list. There are a handful of template
files used to build the actual web page. So all I have to do is come up
with some text about the computer and lists of related links, images and
specs to generate the web page.
So, expect me to be asking about some of my systems in the near future.
And, if anyone is interested in using this program, let me know. It's
written in QBasic for DOS (Is that 10 years old?) but could probably be
ported to just about anything. (In fact, I'll bet Perl or Cobol would be
even better for some things.)
You can see a sample of the layout it generates at
<http://www.sinasohn.com/clascomp/m100.htm>. Note, the pics aren't there.
I'd love to get any feedback anyone cares to offer.
Thanks!
--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-
Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/
Talk about coincidence, after this thread popped up, and me never having
laid eyes on a C-64c, I found one in a local thrift shop. Bought the whole
thing, included a 1541 floppy, all cables, a whole box of software, and a
Magnovox RGB color monitor, which I now have hooked up to my Atari Jag. I
never noticed before how much sharper those RGB monitors are compared to TVs.
Well, I plan on playing with the C-64c for a while, but when I tire of it,
I'll be selling it, sans monitor. Anyone be interested?
At 09:02 PM 1/8/98 -0600, you wrote:
>I see them from time to time here in the TwinCities. I do not buy them
>anymore, I have 6. They have shape like the C128 and the same color and
>run all the old cartridges.
-John Higginbotham-
-limbo.netpath.net-
At 04:38 PM 1/11/98 -0600, you wrote:
>On Sun, 11 Jan 1998, Joe wrote:
>
>> >> first personal computer (I think I know that one)
>>
>> I think the credit on this one has to go to the IBM 5100 again. It was
>> released in 1975.
>
>Is it not true, then, that Ed Roberts coined the term 'personal computer'
>to describe the Altair? (That's the legend I've been led to believe.)
I don't know if he did or not but the Altair wasn't announced til
January 1976 or 77 (I don't remember which but I have the magazine that it
was announced in.) The IBM 5100 was already in production in 1975.
Joe
>
>> Joe>
>
>ttfn
>srw
>
>
Allison wrote:
> < The 5100 was IBM's first "Personal Computer" (their words). It had
> <BASIC or APL or both!
>
> The HP system predated it but, I may have the number wrong. It was
> programmed in industrial BASIC.
Allison, I'm really having trouble figuring out what you're thinking of.
Even as far forward as 1975, the only HP systems I can think of that
ran BASIC were minis. The 2100 and 2114 would have been the smallest
of these, and both are boxes that really want to be in 19" racks but
can be made to sit on tabletops and can be carried (I am certain that
the 2100 has handles and think the 2114 does too). If carrying one
doesn't convince you that it wants to be in a 19" rack or at least
left sit I don't know what will.
The closest thing I can think of is the HP 85, which is a fairly small
and lightweight complete system, with keyboard, display, printer, and
cartridge tape in the box. It was also "portable" in that you could
get matching luggage for it. Next closest might be some of the 98xx
calculator/workstations, but I think those were either programmed like
calculators or in HPL, not BASIC. But all of this is late 1970s-1980
stuff.
Maybe I'm just having a brain lapse?
-Frank McConnell
Tony, Allison, Roger:
Thanks for the quick tutorial on microcode. I knew that it was an
involved topic worthy of many hundreds of pages of text, but you did a great
job of giving me a thumbnail of the topic.
Tony, thanks for the book refs. I'll try to track some of them down.
Rich Cini/WUGNET
<nospam_rcini(a)msn.com> (remove nospam_ to use)
ClubWin! Charter Member (6)
MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking
============================================
< I believe the Japanese Busicom calculator is even older and dates from
<about 1966.
busicom had some calcs before the one based on the 4004 but the 4004
design was 1971. By the there were other multichip designs but none
as low a chip count as the 4004 nor were the as general in application.
Up to that point calculator chip implementations were totally custom
singular designs.
Actually there were some chips before the intel part like the 3101 and
6700 bit slices. It took a lot of parts and design effort to make a
computer as general as the 4004 though those parts were far faster.
The 4004 and later parts were along the lines of reducing custom silicon
solutions or hard wired designs to programatic solutions. As
microprocessors became faster and self contained they were able to solve
more problems that were either silicon intensive, real estate intensive or
flat out too fast for digital solutions at the time. At the other end of
the spectrum they created markets and applications that would not have
been anticipated. After all who'ed ever though you'd need a custom
programmed micro for a microwave or washing machine?
Allison
> I was wondering if anyone knew how to install a Hayes 9600 modem into
> an XT (Ogivar Tech.).
This is slightly off-topic, so e-mail me privately and I'll tell you.
manney(a)nwohio.com
I deal a _lot_ with new users, so my answers are a bit different. I use
precise, non-standard (but descriptive) terminology. My goal is to employ
labels such that non-users can understand instantly what I mean.
> For computers like the C-64, the TI-99/4a, Atari 800, etc. I call the CPU
> a "console".
I call 'em a "keyboard", as that is what they look like.
> The all-in-one dealies like the TRS-80 Model II/III and their ilk would
> be "computers"
Me too. More precisely, "old-style computer"
>
> Piece-part systems like the IBM, I'd call "systems" because you have a
> system consisting of a CPU and peripherals, such as the keyboard,
monitor,
> disk drives, perhaps a mouse...
I call the --
Monitor => Screen
Case => System box
I always stress that the 3 1/2" is called a "floppy ", because a surprising
number of people think that they are "hard drives". I also see them
commonly called "tapes" (and installing a program is commonly called
"programming")
>
> Also, things like a PDP or DG Nova would be "systems", but I think people
> prefer to refer to them as "mini's".
I just call them computers -- newbies generally don't know the difference.
(Besides, if you gave up your old stuff and all got PC's with Win95, you
would have _real_ computers and get _real_ work done....snicker snicker.)
(Quick! Now, I gotta change my e-mail address, lest I be buried under tons
of irate e-mail...)
manney(a)nwohio.com
"Zane H. Healy" <healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> There is also a terminal with it, a "Ann Arbor XL Series" that connects via
> a Serial line. Does anyone have any idea what kind of terminal this is?
> It's very wierd, it's the only ASCII terminal that I've seen which is a
> portrait-mode terminal! Is this some kind of VT-100 compatible or
> something? The only thing I've ever seen that even comes close is some of
> the old Macintosh monitors.
It's probably a flavor of the Ann Arbor Ambassador terminal. I
remember them as being in somewhat widespread use by Unix folks in the
early-to-mid 1980s, their major feature being the number of lines of
source you could fit on the screen. They pretty much fell out of
favor across the mid-1980s with the proliferation of bit-mapped
displays.
-Frank McConnell
>You missed calculators and there are rough catagories:
>
>First eletronic calc
>
>first pocket calc
>
>HP35 $700, the lowcost market breaker being the Bomar Brain.
>
>First programable calc
Good point here thank you. By the way the list was not exhaustive pleas feel
free to add anything and everything you want.
>
>
><first personal computer (I think I know that one)
>
>If you mean PC (as in the IBM PC) then the answer is IBM. However if you
>man pc as in personally owned computer, then you go back by maybe 10-20
What I meant by personal computer was computers mass produced for the home
market. But the rest is still good. What was the first computer to enter the
home (coming from the industry)?
><first portable computer
>
>Define portable as I'd seen totables in the late 70s. One very nice one
>was an expanded EVK68 board in a classy wood case with a small crt and
>keyboard.
My interpretation of portable is a computer that is meant to be moved from
place to place fairly easilly: that means integrated monitor, disk drive (or
tape player), a carrying handle (or two).
>
>One that comes to mind was the HP(5100?) complete packaged system with
>tape for storage and basic and GPIB for external interface.
>
><first laptop
>
>Not sure but it wasnt a dos based for sure. Tandy trs100 or the similar
>NEC, Epson, and others.
>
><first GUI
>
>Xerox PARC smalltalk
>
><first OS
>
>This is real old likely in the late 40s early 50s and was likely a
>machine monitor system to load/save programs. Even the PDP-1 had an OS
>to timeshare multiple users. You may have to be more specific as to tthe
>type or style of OS as there are several and the appearance of each
>corosponds to emerging concepts in computing.
>
>Allison
>
>> > first video game
>>
>> "Computer Space" which was Atari's first video game. I think someone may
>> correct me and tell me it wasn't "Atari" yet, but it was created by Nolan
>> Bushnell.
>
>Spacewar for the PDP-1 is the granddaddy. Still runs, once a year
>(hopefully, if the West Coast computer museum keeps up the tradition).
Wouldn't that be the first computer game? I am not familliar with the PDP-1
but it sounds like a computer name.
>
<> own research you will tend to agree. Some will argue that the Apple ]
<> was the first (by this definition). But the Sol-20 beat it by a few
<> months.
<
<When did the Sphere-1s start shipping? My boards have 1975 dates on them
Early 75 and they do predate the polymorphic systems-88 and PT-sol that
was latest of the three.
Allison
Hi all,
Is there an official name for all various computer packages?
What I trying to find is how to call a computer that is just a keyboard that you plug on the TV (a la C64)versus a computer that has everything attached (TRS 80 mod 4) versus a PC style where components are separate.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Francois Auradon.
Visit the SANCTUARY at http://home.att.net/~francois.auradon
Some how I don't think that the two PDP-11's that were supposed to be /23's
are, but at least they do appear to be PDP-11's. So my question is what is
a M9192? The list I have shows it as being a "DUAL HEIGHT CPU BRD", which
is "real" informative! According to the list I've got the 23's CPU's have
different numbers.
They both have 256KW of 18-bit memory. This brings up an interesting
question, how many bytes are there in in a Word when you're talking
PDP-11's? Since it's 18 my guess would be 2 with parity bits.
While I'm asking I've got some other cards that I can't identify, I think
that they're for PDP's and not VAX's. Does anyone recognize any of these,
or have a good place on the net for me to look?
SCD-RQD11/EC -- this one had 6 connectors for ribbon cables
M8059-KP -- I believe it's 64k, is it for PDP?
M3104 DHV11 -- It's got two ribbon connectors, by guess is it's for adding
other terminals. I seem to have a pair.
Distributed Logic Corp. DQ342 -- no idea, two ribbon connectors
Plessey P/N 70590-100A -- looks to be a RAM board
Zane
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator |
| healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast |
| healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ |
| For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. |
| see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html |
< I don't think a Cincinati Millicron would hardly be considered a
<"Personal Computer" no matter what the number of owners.
That specific machine was about the same size as a PDP-8e and about 60
pounds. For that era that was very compact and light. But personal it
was as at that time it resided in my bedroom while I was trying to write
some simple code via asr33/ptape.
< The 5100 was IBM's first "Personal Computer" (their words). It had
<BASIC or APL or both!
The HP system predated it but, I may have the number wrong. It was
programmed in industrial BASIC.
Allison
I've got one in the basement... six-seven years ago, I even had it
fired up over DECnet, talking to Macs and Amigas over Ethernet.
Haven't gotten around to documenting it for my web page, though.
- John
Jefferson Computer Museum <http://www.threedee.com/jcm>
