If anyone's desperate for an AT&T 6300, I saw one for $30. Dunno if it
works, or if it's complete, but it's there.
--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-
Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/
At 01:39 PM 2/2/98, you wrote:
> Does it say anything about what it's looking for or what port it expects
>to find it on?
Well, there's only one 25-pin RS232 port on the GRiD, the other serial port
is taken up by a 1200 baud modem (state of the art in 1985). I'm gonna try
to find a cheap one at the next hamfest to tinker with it. Who knows? Maybe
it'll work on the first try. (yeah, right)
-John Higginbotham-
-limbo.netpath.net-
< I had forgotten that I have a pile of VT 320s, will they work?
ANY vtXXX. A VT320 is ok too. It only has to be RS232 or 20ms interface
and not blockmode. Most of the latter terminals only do rs232/rs423
and 20ma was TTY or DECwriters.
< Sounds like just picking up old software is a waste of time and money.
<It's to be exactly right for the system that it's going on.
Pretty much the case back then or you had to know it was hackable.
< I wondered about using the drives out of an old Osborne model OCC 1 th
<I have.
They may work muost just pull the 360k drives from an XT.
< You're right. I have manuals for NS* CPM, CPM assembler, CPM
<interface, etc. I haven't had time to read all this stuff yet. I'm gla
<you told me that CPM will run on an 8080. I've seen some very old CPM
<stuff but I didn't think I could use it. But there is a chance.
It was never a question. I've been running CPM for 21 years and also
have a NS* horizon thats now 20 years old.
< Actually now that I know what I'm looking for, my NS* CPM manual says
<16K of Ram with an origin of 2000 Hex. I have a bunch of NS* manuals, I
V2.x and later it had to be 20k so that is v1.4 (likely from lifeboat
associates).
<like to find the NS* software that goes with them. BTW the NS* CPM book
<says that the NS* board is supposed to have a PROM on it that contains th
<IPL.
I did say it had a minimal boot.
Allison
<Could I attach two PC motherboards (ISA? PS/2? PCI? EISA? NuBUS?
<Others?) together via a ribbon cable by the bus connectors and then
<transfer data among them, of course having written the approporiate
<drivers?
Only if you want to kill both of them. Use the parallel port via laplink
or other software.
Technically it can be done via the bus if you created an interface card
to resolve the bus conflicts that would result from a direct connection.
Allison
< I'd like to get away from having to use a terminal. The only terminal
<I have are big HP things and I don't know if they would work with the
<Altair (too fast?, block mode instead of character mode?)
The hp thing would not work. Try and scrounge up a vt100 or other more
commonplace terminal vt100, vt220, heath/zenith h19, PC running Procomm
or other term program.
< I'm aware to the addresssing problems. Sounds like you have to
<re-address everything to match the program or else hack the programs to
<change all the device adresses, program loation etc.
That's putting it mildly. Some of the CUTS and tarbell format tapes
assumed you were using their monitor programs in rom. If you weren't,
zap, a whole lot of IO code was missing.
< I have a NS disk controller. I don't know if it has a IPL or how that
<has to be done. The manual I have doesn't say. I also need to find a
<Shugart SA 400 to go with NS controller. I know other drives are
<electrically compatable with the SA 400 but I don't know if the track
<spacing and other physical parameters are the same or not. If the physic
<parameters aren't the same then the media would not be compatable.
First you don't have the software manual or the hardware manuals as they
do explain that. The NS* controller has a minimal boot as part of the
hardware. If it's the single density controller it will work with an
8080, however if it's the later double density controller a z80 at 4mhz
is a must. The NS* OS has an area that must be configured to match the
IO in your system if it is not it will boot and hang. As to the disk your
not locked to the sa400 there are hundres of different drives that will
work. Sa400 was 35 tracks 48tpi single sided, any single sided drive
other than a few oddballs will be 48tpi. Most older 360k full or half
height drives will work as well despite being two sided.
< This is an 8080 machine. Will it run CPM? I thought that was for Z80s
Go back and read up on history. CP/M-80 ran on all 8080 systems with
a miimum of 20k ram starting at 0000h, a floopy disk system and some
kind ot terminal.
< Yes, I know. Bill Gates first commercial product.
First commercial hack done using borrowed time on his employers cpu.
Oh, he wan't that good it was Gates and Allen.
Allison
allisonp(a)world.std.com (Allison J Parent) wrote:
> Gee Frank vt100 was not the only thing in the list.
Granted, on re-reading it (and thinking a bit) you did mention an
H19 and that is not a VT100-compatible or superset.
But what really got my attention was the statement that the HP
terminals won't work. They work just fine, providing you've got the
straps set right. And while you can set the straps so the terminal
starts in block mode I can't recall that being done ever in the last
20 years save by accident (typically user getting into config menus
and whacking buttons not knowing how to get back out, getting
frustrated, calling me to come out and reset the configuration).
And what was I really reacting to? Well, yeah, this is one of my hot
buttons from way back, and I apologize if I came across too strong.
> A terminal emulator on a PC was suggested as if you posted here it's a
> fair likelyhood you have a PC. I'd have suggested a MAC and term emulator
> but I don't know that space.
And as I said that's probably more functional. Quite frankly that's
one of the reasons I carry an HP palmtop and keep a couple of the
older HP Portable Pluses around: the former makes a tolerable LCD
VT100-alike and the latter do good VT100 and HP emulation (with
Reflection in ROM).
-Frank McConnell
allisonp(a)world.std.com (Allison J Parent) wrote:
> < I'd like to get away from having to use a terminal. The only terminal
> <I have are big HP things and I don't know if they would work with the
> <Altair (too fast?, block mode instead of character mode?)
>
> The hp thing would not work. Try and scrounge up a vt100 or other more
> commonplace terminal vt100, vt220, heath/zenith h19, PC running Procomm
> or other term program.
Remember complaints about programmers thinking "all the world's a
VAX"? Now it's time to work on the ones who think "all the world's a
VT100."
I used to use an HP2645 as a terminal on a Compupro CP/M system, so
am sure it can be done. But it definitely depends on the expectations
of the software running on the computer. If it isn't assuming
anything more capable than a Teletype, things will be fine. If your
BIOS or other terminal I/O support wants the terminal to do ^S/^Q flow
control it will be disappointed (264xs don't, 262xs and later can be
configured to do so but don't by default). If your applications
expect the terminal to act like a VT100 by way of responding to VT100
or ANSI escape sequences (i.e. suffering from "all the world's a
VT100" disease) then the easiest thing to do is to get a VT100-alike
as Allison suggests.
All that said, if you want help getting the HP terminal working feel
free to ask. If you'd sooner use a terminal emulator on some other
computer, that's OK too and probably more functional.
-Frank McConnell
At 19:54 29/01/98 -0700, you wrote:
>Am I sure they're RJ11, no. They're physically the same jack with six
>live wires. But beyond that, how would I know???
Because DEC plugs are different from RJ11:
RJ 11= 4 pin; DEC=6
They share the same insertion size, but the DEC have "unplug key" not in the
center
as other RJ's
ASCII-SAMPLE I=========I I=========I
I ^^^^ I I ^^^^^^ I
I I I I
I-----i_i-I I---i_i---I
DEC RJ11
>Does Xenix see these when it loads or do I have to tell it?
You need its own device driver to let it go.
>(Xenix/at 2.2.1)
>
>Do you if they are compatible/similar to anything that might recognise
>the board and work it in today's UNIX world???
They were made for today's Unix world.
The problem is to find its own software.
????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
? Riccardo Romagnoli,collector of:CLASSIC COMPUTERS,TELETYPE UNITS,PHONE ?
? AND PHONECARDS I-47100 Forli'/Emilia-Romagna/Food Valley/ITALY ?
? Pager:DTMF PHONES=+39/16888(hear msg.and BEEP then 5130274*YOUR TEL.No.* ?
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? e-mail=chemif(a)mbox.queen.it ?
????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
At 13:15 13-01-98 -0500, William Donzelli <william(a)ans.net> wrote:
>> Me too! But I think a 4381, say or even a 9370, would be easier to work
>> on.
>
>Getting a 9370 should not be a problem - they are dogs that really were
>not sucessful. I have seen quite a few in the scrap yards (none suitable
>for taking, however).
>
I'll agree it's no problem. I got the old 9370 from my company setting at
home. Paid an official $1 to act as a transfer of ownership. It's just
barely a classic now. Obsolete as heck -not too long after we paid $200k+
for it in '86/'87. Lot of Tylenol used to sooth aching back muscles when I
dragged it home piece-by-piece. (Should have seen the wife look at me...)
It's a dog, but nevertheless, something important in the line of S/370
lineage which I literally rescued from the dumpster.
Notably, it is said to be the first actual production unit sold. Don't
exactly recall complete serial number, but it probably is first since it is
something like xxx0001. Will get back to the list later with SN, etc. if
anybody interested in confirming this.
I need OS books (VSE, I think) and help in bringing her completely up.
Xerox, I believe, kept the OS manuals since they did all the software
maintenace under contract. IBM did hardware maintenance, of course. We used
the Xerox Business Management System (XBMS) product to run our company.
Have virtually all other hardware books and most periferal books safely at
home.
Heard that AIX could run on the 9370 under (I think) VM or something. Any
AIX and VM OS's around that I could scrounge for this iron??
Have tried to bring it up at home but, apparently, lack of certain
periferals it expects to see hung off the terminal ports causes the IPL to
quit before OS completely loads. Need a guru or present-day user to help
figure this out.
Any of you folks willing to help me with this project later in the year???
Wife and I just bought another house and will not be settled until
summertime or later. I'm making provisions during my rewiring of the house
to include a 30A double-pole breaker since the 9370 takes 230V, single
phase. Will duct the air coming out of the CPU to heat the house instead of
using the furnace (just kidding, but there's quite a few BTUs dumped outta
the thing and could keep the house above freezing in the winter at least.)
Will tell the list anything more on this machine if any interest.
Regards, Chris
-- --
=======================================================
Christian Fandt Phone: +716-488-1722 -Home
111 Harding Avenue +716-661-1832 -Office
Jamestown, New York Fax: +716-661-1888 -Office fax
14701-4746 USA email: cfandt(a)servtech.com
<I remember CUTS, but someone else mentioned 88-ACR and I'd never
Altair cassette interface which was narrow FSK at 300baud. The actual
board set was called 88-ACR and was a mits sio with a modified modem
board (tx/rx frequencies the same).
bell 103 uses differet tones for TX and recieve so for modem use it was
useless. It is however narrow FSK.
Allison
At 07:07 AM 2/2/98, you wrote:
> If you run it with no ERPOM burner attached, it will probably give you
>an error message stating that the burner is not attached to port X. That
>should give you a clue.
It runs fine, it doesn't go out looking for the burner until you tell it to
actually burn something.
-John Higginbotham-
-limbo.netpath.net-
> >I found a Channel F on saturday. I'm having some problem with it:
> What is a channel F, some kind of game machine like an Atari? There is
> (was?) a Fairchild game machine in a trift store here. I don't remember
> the name but I don't think it was channel F.
The Fairchild Channel F is an old video games console - I believe it
predates the original Atari VCS by a few months. They're regarded as
pretty neat finds these days.
To the original poster - you may have better luck asking on the classic
videogames mailing list (classic-videogames(a)moose.webworks.ca) or if you
have usenet access, on rec.games.video.classic.
--
Ben Coakley http://www.math.grin.edu/~coakley coakley(a)ac.grin.edu
Station Manager, KDIC 88.5 FM CBEL: Xavier OH
Wow, this is global. -Mtn Goats
From: Frank McConnell <fmc(a)reanimators.org>
<Remember complaints about programmers thinking "all the world's a
<VAX"? Now it's time to work on the ones who think "all the world's a
<VT100."
Gee Frank vt100 was not the only thing in the list.
I suggested those as I know they are common and usable. up here in MA
(DEC country) they are as common as house flies. Actually an adm1 or
three was more likely then.
A terminal emulator on a PC was suggested as if you posted here it's a
fair likelyhood you have a PC. I'd have suggested a MAC and term emulator
but I don't know that space.
Allison
Actually, I think that OS/2 prices'll drop soon. As for Linux, there are
several "minimal distrobutions" avaible. One is called "Mini-Linux" which
includes X-Windows, several games, a word processor, etc. as well as full
Linux support, and runs under MS-DOS FAT 16 or FAT 32, as well as OS/2's
system, no repartitioning necessary. It also is in 4 .zip files, each under
1.44MB for diskettes. Another is called "Monkey", which includes Navigator,
X-Windows, all kinds of stuff, and once again, runs without a partition.
Each take up no more than 30MB. I haven't gotten either working. If anyone
can help me.... anyway, they're both first class operating systems.
Ciao,
Tim D. Hotze
-----Original Message-----
From: Philip.Belben(a)powertech.co.uk <Philip.Belben(a)powertech.co.uk>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Monday, February 02, 1998 8:43 PM
Subject: Re[2]: Development, round II
>> > >BTW What is Warp? Is it the OS/2 windowing system? If so, why would
I
>> > >want to use it at all, let alone on a 286? ;-)
>> >
>> > Warp is OS/2v3. You couldn't use it on a 286, but if you had, say, a
>> > 486/33 -- do pardon me for mentioning a nine-year-old part -- it would
>> > begin to be worth playing with. My copy of Warp is still very much to
>> > hand, and I think anyone who can scrounge up an appropriate computer
should
>> > run it (for a while) if they have the opportunity, because it's a real
>> > education.
>>
>> Runs just peachy on my old 386/25. Faster than Windows 3.1 did, not
>> that that's a compliment. I will admit that I prefer it, though of
>> course all of my high-end machines run Linux.
>
>I seem to be reading a lot of good things about OS/2 here apart from the
>price. Since it looks as though I may have found a source of decent
>hard disk drives for my Compaq LTE Lite 20 machines I shall seriously
>consider OS/2 for one of them. The other one, of course, will run
>either Linux or Free BSD - Linux seems to have the vote so far.
>
>Thankyou everyone.
>
>Philip.
>
> > >I don't know of any *real* military surplus stores around SF anymore;
> > >though you'd think there would be some, what with Mare Island Naval
> > >ShipYard, Treasure Island, Alameda (Nuclear Wessels!), The Presidio,
etc.
I know. The Nuclear Wessels were hard to find. Actually, back to the
off-topic topic, there *might* be another wave of stuff, depending on how
many new gadgets various govenrment branches can make, and what we end up
doing with Iraq. (Albright's coming here tommorow.)
> > >There are a few electronics surplus stores around, especially down in
the
> > >(silicon) valley.
Wha? (That seems strange to me)
> As far as military surplus electronics goes, the end-all and be-all will
> always be Fair Radio Sales of Lima, OH. They're even on the web now:
> http://alpha.wcoil.com/~fairadio/
>
>Yeah, but they're still a rip-off. Their prices were high in the
>late 70's when I used to get their catalog, and they're high now.
Of course they are. I mean, as has been pointed out, they can make a profit
out of it. And, people GIVE them the money. I'm betting that many of the
people buying the stuff haven't even heard of Hamfests.
Also, on Classifieds 2000, they've got UNREASONABLE prices on classics
under "Old Computers." I mean, I got a II+ form Jeff Kaneko for $10, and I
saw several advertised, as "Real Rare Classics" for 3 digit figures. And,
if people can make money that way....
Tim Shoppa <shoppa(a)alph02.triumf.ca> wrote:
>OK, I'll build a web site this weekend that describes the Kansas-city
>and Tarbell standards. Will this be useful?
Yes, that would be great. I haven't gotten around to digging through
my old Kilobauds yet. Which other formats should I research?
I remember CUTS, but someone else mentioned 88-ACR and I'd never
heard of that. I'm sure Bell 103 is quite simple. Then there's
all the other cassette formats: CBM PET, VIC-20, C-64, Sinclair, etc.
>If you wanted to make some digitized fragments available, I'd gladly
>make some guesses as to the format.
You can still recognize them "by ear"? :-)
- John
Jefferson Computer Museum <http://www.threedee.com/jcm>
> > >BTW What is Warp? Is it the OS/2 windowing system? If so, why would I
> > >want to use it at all, let alone on a 286? ;-)
> >
> > Warp is OS/2v3. You couldn't use it on a 286, but if you had, say, a
> > 486/33 -- do pardon me for mentioning a nine-year-old part -- it would
> > begin to be worth playing with. My copy of Warp is still very much to
> > hand, and I think anyone who can scrounge up an appropriate computer should
> > run it (for a while) if they have the opportunity, because it's a real
> > education.
>
> Runs just peachy on my old 386/25. Faster than Windows 3.1 did, not
> that that's a compliment. I will admit that I prefer it, though of
> course all of my high-end machines run Linux.
I seem to be reading a lot of good things about OS/2 here apart from the
price. Since it looks as though I may have found a source of decent
hard disk drives for my Compaq LTE Lite 20 machines I shall seriously
consider OS/2 for one of them. The other one, of course, will run
either Linux or Free BSD - Linux seems to have the vote so far.
Thankyou everyone.
Philip.
At 01:21 AM 1/30/98 -0600, you wrote:
>I don't know of any *real* military surplus stores around SF anymore;
>though you'd think there would be some, what with Mare Island Naval
>ShipYard, Treasure Island, Alameda (Nuclear Wessels!), The Presidio, etc.
>
>There are a few electronics surplus stores around, especially down in the
>(silicon) valley.
I wasn't into computers at the time (I was 6 or 7) But my father used to
take me on Dumpster Safaris at Charleston Naval Base, where he worked
(civilian). Man, they used to throw out all sorts of stuff, some of it just
had a few scratches on it. I remember seeing oscilloscopes, radio gear,
terminals, tools, office furniture, you could live in one of those
dumpsters (Hey, I was 6. I didn't have great expectations.) My big thing
back then was swapping wires on connections, juicing it up, and see what
explodes. Now I'm all grown up! :)
-John Higginbotham-
-limbo.netpath.net-
I think this RD54 may have died. It DID have the spin-up disease, (Wouldn't
spin up), but this was just a bad case of stiction. I spun the disk and it worked.
Now, I try to format the disk (test 70 on uVAX 2000) and it acts funny.
Before, it would only recognise as unit 1. It would fail
the RdMbb step, format would be OK, and the Checkpass would take eternity.
(I let it run overnight, it completed 3 dots.)
I set it to unit 0, same trick but the RdMbb is OK.
Jumper problem?
-------
I came across a program yesterday called GRiDROM.EXE. Apparently, it was
used to drive an EPROM Programmer via the GRiDCase 3's serial port. My only
question now is this:
Would this most likley be a proprietary EPROM Burner or could I use any
model, as long as it talked through the serial port?
I know nothing of EPROM Programmers, so be gentle. :)
-John Higginbotham-
-limbo.netpath.net-
You Smart Folks:
Can anyone give me some clues on a minimal set up to program boot ROMs
for IBM PC & AT comps. I want to build DOS & ? boot roms, but I only
have a faint idea where to start.
What's the minimum and what are some good lowend chips to use that can
be easily reused as development goes on??
Thanks,
-Mike
(PS, I don't want to get too far off topic, so please mail me directly,
if poss..)
mallison(a)konnections.com
Thanks
I found this link this morning and thought that it would be of great use to
the group, so here it is:
The Hardware Book
http://www.blackdown.org/~hwb/hwb.html
Welcome to the Hardware Book. Internet's largest free collection of
connector pinouts and cable descriptions. Created and maintained by Joakim
?gren.
-John Higginbotham-
-limbo.netpath.net-
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ken Hall
Kermit(a)talent.com.au
9452 6280
0414 264 065
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: John Higginbotham <higginbo(a)netpath.net>
Subject: C-64c probs
>
> I was playing around with the C-64c I picked up last month... It came with
> a 1541 floppy...
>
> I think I have a problem:
Don't believe what those 'other' people say, collecting old computers is
O.K. *grin*
>
> Turn on floppy
> turn on C-64c
> C-64c inits the drive (light blinks, then goes out)
Sounds normal for a 15xx reset...
> insert disk
> type LOAD "$",8
> nothing happens, no drive light, no response from the 64.
>
> What's going on here? Drive misalign? How do I realign? Bad drive? Bad cable?
I'd start with the cables and connectors... Also try loading ,9 10 or
11, it is possible that they rigged that 1541 to be a higher device
number than 8. Have you tried reading the error channel:
10 open 15,8,15,"i0":rem initilize disk (no, this is not a format
command...)
20 input#15,e,e$,t,s:rem read error channel
30 close 15: print e,e$,t,s
if the disk is alive and device 9 it should report something like "0
ok 0 0"
> Anyone have one or two extra 1541 floppy drives they want to sell?
I find them pretty regularly at thrift shops and flea markets for a
fraction of what the shipping would be. I would suggest you hunt about
a bit first.
If you want to brush up on Commodore 8-bit drive usage I have two guides
on-line:
http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/diskbasics.htmlhttp://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/loadingbasics.html
Larry Anderson
--
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
Visit our web page at: http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/
Call our Commodore 64 BBS (Silicon Realms 300-2400 baud) at: (209)
754-1363
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
On Sat, 31 Jan 1998 08:32:45 -0800 (PST), Tim Shoppa
<shoppa(a)alph02.triumf.ca> wrote:
>>Either Orange or Blue DEC binders, depending on the upgrade path that
>>the previous owner took.
All of the binders that I have have grey covers.
>>Look for two files of the form DISMT.COM and DISMT2.COM. These
>>will have the definitive list of all files on the official RT-11 V4.00
>>distribution. If you're missing these - or any other files - tell
>>me what media your machine has and I'll get you copies of these and
>>whatever other files you're missing.
Nope, I don't have either of these files. I got 4 RK05 packs with this
system, three of which work. None of these disks have these files on them.
I'd love to get a whole copy of the V4 distribution, if you have it
(since it would match the manuals that I have). Right now, the only media
that my machine has is the RK05 disk packs. I'm looking to get a paper tape
reader/punch, but I haven't been able to find one yet. I'd also like to put
an RX02 (??) dual-floppy on it. Maybe in February, when I go to my Temple
Univ. "supply house."
What interface boards do I need to hang a dual-floppy off of the
PDP-11/34a?
Rich Cini/WUGNET
<nospam_rcini(a)msn.com> (remove nospam_ to use)
ClubWin! Charter Member (6)
MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking
============================================
