I just got a ProFile /// hard drive off of eBay. What is the interface card
that I need for it?
Rich Cini/WUGNET
<nospam_rcini(a)msn.com> (remove nospam_ to use)
ClubWin! Charter Member (6)
MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking
============================================
Is there a difference between a DecStation 3100 and a VaxStation 3100? I
saw some of each today at one of my favorite money pits (escaped for under
$200 today!). Are they Vaxen or something else? I'm not too interested
(I'm an HP 3000 guy).
Anyway, the place I saw them is called HMR Global Recycling. They
basically take a *HUGE* warehouse full of old PC's and Macs and ship them
overseas everyday. But they also sell some stuff to the average joe. It's
mostly as-is, especially for the odder stuff. They have the DEC stuff,
plus some Sparc stuff, misc. Apple (mostly mac) stuff, and the occassional
wierd thing.
Sometimes they have good prices, and sometimes they don't; it depends on
who you talk to and how they're feeling. You go in, look around for what
you want, then find someone to tell you how much they want for it. There
is no set pricing, or anything, they seem to make it up as you go. They're
open to negotiation; I am generally able to talk them down a bit.
Anyway, today I picked up:
4 DB25-Cen50 SCSI Cables (HP) $2.50 ea
5 Mac Mice $6.00 ea
10 Mac Appletalk kits MIB $2.50 ea
4 250MB 3.5" SCSI HD's $17.50 ea
1 6 HH drive ext SCSI case $20.00
1 HP 9114 disk drive $10.00
and the best of the bunch...
1 GRiD Compass 1101 $15.00
Anyway they have a web page (not much, last time I checked) at
<http://www.hmr-usa.com/>, and they're located on 23rd St., just East of
3rd, near Army (or Ceasar Chavez for the tourists.)
--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-
Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/
<>> The name hacker has been dragged through the mud for far too long.
<>> There's almost no real record of the 1st and 2nd generation hacks. (1
<>> were the hacks at MIT. 2nd were those at Berkeley and elsewhere, who
<>> adjusted the Hacker Ethic to allow for making money. 3rd are the
<>> present-day warez loosers. [They're here for refrence. Technically,
Being one of the first generation hackers...
Some of my better hacks was blueboxing and using it to call MITS about
hardware bugs. The college dorm pay phone that always gave money back
(the trick was truly hiding the diodes used so TPC didn't find them
easily). Running a VLF (160khz) site, using FM on CB in the early 70s
when it wasn't full of "breaker breaker". Though the three 12v car
batteries used to power the 26v line on G's minuteman missle computer
in the early '70s was pretty crufty. Sending 4800 baud data through a
repeater while a principle engineer from RCA was telling us it couldn't
be done. It can be handy not knowing you can't. ;) Sometimes it was as
silly as putting a speaker to the link lamp of a PDP-8 front pannel and
coding music. By the early '80s hacking was going to disrepute as the
tech wars style came in. Early hacking was serious doing it on zer0
budget, the technically difficult with bailing wire or the subtle
application of brute force. Most of all hacking was doing it with minimum
docs and piecing the picture from it's smoke signals.
that was hacking as I knew it. the last remnents I see todat is people
talking about getting an old PDP-8 or 10 and using a modern IDE disk so
they can power it up and run it affordably.
Allison
I forget who wrote half of this, but here goes:
> Isn't PGA Pin-Grid-Array? (It's probably wrong, but hay....)
[...]
> You sure this isn't PGA?
PGA = Professional Graphics Adapter, as Kip Crosby so rightly pointed
out. When I was at IBM this was called PGC (C = Controller).
FWIW, the PGC was three circuit boards bolted together, the two outer
ones going into adjacent slots of an XT motherboard. It had an 8088 as
graphics coprocessor, and did 640 x 480 x loads of colours.
But back to the original question,
> I'm sure my 3270pc handles a "better" quality CGA. It just looks like
> EGA, thought it was... It was running a version of Norton Utes and it
> was just beautiful turquoise blue set and clear characters.
>
> I'd have to think this was better than CGA, especially since it took two
> coupled long cards to run the video...
>
> -Mike
No, it isn't PGA. (Although most of the chips on the cards are likely
to be PGAs, in IBM custom metal cans, as I recall...)
The IBM 5272, the 3270PC display, was a very nice monitor. I don't know
the pixel resolution, but I'd guess at 800 x 400. Unfortunately, AFAIK,
it only did 8 colours.
The 3270PC display card did TEXT MODES ONLY - it was aimed at emulating
the 3279 terminal. You could buy two add-on cards for it that went in
the slots either side in the motherboard.
1. The PS card. This provided emulation of the Programmed Symbols
option on the 3279. Very nice graphics, but only as a terminal, not as
a PC (although presumably you could have written PC drivers for it...)
2. The APA card. This provided support of the All Points Addressable
modes of the CGA. These CGA modes were displayed in the top lefthand
corner of the screen. And the only 8 colours reduced the capability
somewhat as well.
It looked very good, but AFAIK IBM never supported it properly. Pity.
Later IBM released the 5370 series machines. These included the
3270PC/G and the 3270PC/GX. These had full graphics capability, the G
on a monitor the same size as the 5272 (but with I think more colours);
the GX had a graphics coprocessor (5378) in a box the size of a PS/2
model 30 and a 19 inch monitor (5379) with lots of pixels (1280 x 1024 I
think, but could have been only 1024 x 768) and I don't know how many
colours (but might have been 64).
But your description of the 3270PC sounds like you've got only one of PS
and APA, alas.
Hope this helps
Philip.
<At 11:34 2/4/98 -0500, you wrote:
<>Texas Instruments was naming some of their calculators "SR" (for Slide
<>Rule) up until the mid-80's, at least. My first one was the SR-10...the
<>"wedge". $110, IIRC....Was that TI's first?
Not by a long shot. The first was in late '71 and went for about $140
(8bigit 4banger). I had one going into EE school.
Allison
Well, since we're on this subject... how can I resist once more
mentioning...
Slide Rule Trading Post
http://www.comcen.com.au/~adavie/slide/
On my site you will find a link to JavaSlide on the main menu. That's a
JAVA slide rule I wrote some while back, so you can reminisc even if you
can't find your old faithful. Its quite good, actually.
There's a society called the Oughtred society, with around 400+ members.
Each devoted to their slide rule collection. I know of some people with
700+ units. Me, I have 30, including a 7 foot long Pickett classroom rule.
Cheers
Andrew
-----Original Message-----
From: Allison J Parent <allisonp(a)world.std.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Thursday, February 05, 1998 4:22 AM
Subject: Re: Slipping sticks
>
><At 19:20 2/3/98 -0500, PG wrote:
><>"Slipsticker"?!? I thought I was the last one! C'mon -- who else here ha
><>his old slide rule _and_ still remembers how to use it?
>
>I have my 10" white aluminum pickett handy and grab it when a quick
>"good to three places" answer will do. I also use a E6B which is a
>circular aircraft slide rule for time, speed, distance, fuel use and
>wind correction. That one is in the plane as I'm absolutely certain
>it works as the calculator version of the E6B allways seems to need a
>new battery.
>
>Allison
>
>
there are many models of ps1 computers, that its hard to say. the first
2011/2121/2123 were of proprietary nature, and later ps1 types were just
standard 486 pc types. later models had power management and suspend functions
like laptops do. if its a 2011 or 2121 type make sure the monitor works, since
the cpu gets it power from there.
In a message dated 2/4/98 2:44:50 PM Eastern Standard Time,
photze(a)batelco.com.bh writes:
<< I don't know if he was willing to GIVE IT TO ME. Anyway, what's a
"garden variety" PS/1? What are un-garden variety PS/1's?
>If it's a garden-variety PS/1, strictly he should pay you to take it, but
>you can be a nice guy and let him give it to you. After all, that way it's
>off his hands. >>
Thanks to all who responded to my request to form an east coast
antique computer club. I've enjoyed corresponding to you all and will
stay in touch. Would still like to meet more old computer enthusiasts.
Marty Mintzell
5635 Heming Avenue
Springfield, Virginia 22151
703-569-2380
marty(a)itgonline.com
< Aluminium galls too bad to use with aluminium against aluminium. and it
I used to used a aircraft silicone lube on mine and cleaned it
periodically. Otherwise it would bind annoyingly.
<been a lot of slide rules made of it. My MB_4 and EB-6 aircraft navigati
<slide rules are both built of it. My dad had an old (K&E ?) rule that's
<also aluminium.
I may add that it depends on the alloy too.
Allison
OK, well, about to enter high school, I've got this to say: 13 is for
7th-8th grade, so it's 14 minimum for high school. There are, of course,
exceptions, like in Kansas and Florida they enter school a year older, etc.
Actually, here, in 7th grade, we've got 2 14 and one 15 year old(s). And,
people ARE much smarter, but they didn't learn anything in school, if
they're like me.
(Sam alert...) ;-)
Tim D. Hotze
-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Kaneko <Jeff.Kaneko(a)ifrsys.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Friday, February 06, 1998 8:38 PM
Subject: Re: slipping sticks
> >>No, I do not have _my_ high school/college slide rule, which was a
> >>magnificent 12" yellow aluminum Pickett with a hard leather case and a
belt
> >>loop. ...
>
> Nice! Why have I never seen an aluminium slide rule?
>
> Also, for the benefit of us non-Americans, what approximate age is "high
> school"?
>
The age range for highschool in the US is 13 - 19 (approx). You
usually enter around 13 or 14, and finish four years later (older
but in general, not much wiser). 8-P
Present company exepted, of course . . . .
Jeff
>>No, I do not have _my_ high school/college slide rule, which was a
>>magnificent 12" yellow aluminum Pickett with a hard leather case and a belt
>>loop. ...
Nice! Why have I never seen an aluminium slide rule?
Also, for the benefit of us non-Americans, what approximate age is "high
school"?
At school slide rules were the only permitted calculating machines in
maths classes up to age 16 in my day (academic year 1982-83)
(requirement was dropped a couple of years later). I went through a
series of cheap plastic ones and ended up with an expensive plastic one
- I asked the local stationers for a replacement cursor and they sold me
this really nice slide rule for the same price (one pound) just to get
rid of it! This too has lost its cursor, tho' I believe I still have
the rule somewhere.
More recently I bought a decent wooden one for a similar price at a car
boot sale - still in box with plate glass cursor. I also have a special
purpose cardboard one with two slides that is meant to calculate the
flow of water through pipes of various sizes, materials and gradients.
>>700+ units. Me, I have 30, including a 7 foot long Pickett classroom rule.
Wow! On a 7 foot rule you should be able to get four sig. figs without
too much interpolation anywhere along the length. Or are the markings
too coarse for that?
Philip.
If only there was a mechanism to persuade companies to allow such hobby
use of archaic software. It would be great if there was a standard
document, perhaps similar to that OpenVMS license, that would eliminate
the guilt from violating someone's copyright. "What's the harm" isn't
good enough for me. To me, preservation of the rights of the old software
is almost as important as the software itself. But it's not easy.
It may be impossible. You can get an old system from a dumpster
and if you're lucky you find floppies and the manuals.
Take an example from one of my pet projects, the Terak computer.
Terak was sold to CalComp, and CalComp was bought (or was always
owned) by McDonnell-Douglas. The last anyone saw of the Terak assets
was a semi driving from Scottsdale to New Hampshire. This Herculean
task now consists of finding someone within MD who has the time
and the good will to care, and who's been around long enough to
know what the heck I'm asking for.
Then I've got to persuade them to give me the right to, oh, copy some
fifteen-year-old floppies for someone without a legit copy, or to write
an emulator that uses the code and allow others to get a copy.
I've long heard that some varieties of dark-side hacking involve
Social Engineering that can open a door or shoulder-surf a password,
but I doubt it's powerful enough magic to persuade a defense contractor
to sign a paper to give you something for nothing.
- John
Jefferson Computer Museum <http://www.threedee.com/jcm>
My Mac Portable has 2MB RAM, 1MB soldered on and 1MB on an expansion
board. This board has room for more chips, which, if added, would make
the board a total of 3MB. The problem is that the board has chips on
both sides, so that the little legs stay on the surface, instead of
going through. Can I technically solder on the chips by myself, or is it
unrealistic?
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
<If only there was a mechanism to persuade companies to allow such hobby
<use of archaic software. It would be great if there was a standard
OpenVMS archaic? It's a current product and definatly a high end OS
and it includs DECnet networking.
Unlike DOS VMS is richly packaged with tools, utilities, libraries,
editors, VMSmail, DCL command line language, macro32 and DECwindows
client and server.
<document, perhaps similar to that OpenVMS license, that would eliminate
<the guilt from violating someone's copyright. "What's the harm" isn't
Keep in mind while they grant a hobby license it's for 1 full version
level behind. DEC policy was sofware that old is unsupported but the
copyright is still valid. Still V5.4->v6.1 systems are still good for
production work. There are still systems in production use still running
them.
Often the problem with "abandoned" software is finding the oner of record
or who it is.
Allison
<Nice! Why have I never seen an aluminium slide rule?
No idea, here in the lat 60s and early 70s they were one step better than
plastic but not as expensive as the bamboo or mahogany ones.
<Also, for the benefit of us non-Americans, what approximate age is "high
<school"?
approx 15-18 years.
<At school slide rules were the only permitted calculating machines in
<maths classes up to age 16 in my day (academic year 1982-83)
In the late 60s and early 70s slide rules were permitted where the
calculated value was part of the answer for geometry, trig and calculus
90% of a given problem was the work and 10% the actual numeric result.
In the technical (EE world) it'was expected you knew how to run a
slipstick and answers were expected to be accurate to three places
plus correct exponent. I was the first one to bring an electronic
(pocket almost) calc but I still kept a 7" stick for quick trig
functions.
<boot sale - still in box with plate glass cursor. I also have a special
<purpose cardboard one with two slides that is meant to calculate the
<flow of water through pipes of various sizes, materials and gradients.
I still have a few special ones including a plasticized paperboard one
for coil spring design.
The 15" I have is good to 5 places on the left and 4 on the right for
basic finctions, trig and logs were good to 4 and 3 places.
Allison
-----Original Message-----
From: Philip.Belben(a)powertech.co.uk <Philip.Belben(a)powertech.co.uk>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Saturday, February 07, 1998 2:09 AM
Subject: Re: slipping sticks
>>>No, I do not have _my_ high school/college slide rule, which was a
>>>magnificent 12" yellow aluminum Pickett with a hard leather case and a
belt
>>>loop. ...
>
>Nice! Why have I never seen an aluminium slide rule?
Almost ALL Pickett Slide Rules are aluminium.
[snip/snip]
>>>700+ units. Me, I have 30, including a 7 foot long Pickett classroom
rule.
>
>Wow! On a 7 foot rule you should be able to get four sig. figs without
>too much interpolation anywhere along the length. Or are the markings
>too coarse for that?
The 7' rule is simply a blown up version of a 12" rule. Everything 7 times
bigger. Sure, you can estimate a bit better, but you wouldn't really want
to try to calculate with this thing. Its massive!!
PS: Brand new Pickett ES500 rules (quite nice model) can be had for US$25 at
the Gemmary.
Tell them I sent you ;)
Cheers
Andrew
Andrew,
> PS: Brand new Pickett ES500 rules (quite nice model) can be had for US$25 at
> the Gemmary.
Who? Where? Seriously, I've never heard of the Gemmary - can you give
a bit more info?
$25 is reasonable for a nice slide rule, I agree.
Philip.
> My friend (and I, for that matter), would never condone software piracy,
> in all seriousness. However (again, hypothetically speaking of course)
> my friend would have a lot of trouble understanding how posessing and
> running an old, obsoleted version of VMS would bring harm to anybody or to
> any organization. He might also be very disappointed that there were no
> available inexpensive hobbyist licenses available, which, if one existed,
> he would certainly jump at and support with his own hard earned money,
> quite happily.
If your hypothetical friend lives hypothetically in the United State of
hypothetical America, he might, hypothetically, spend some time searching
http://www.dejanews.com/ for the original hypothetical hobbyist VMS
license announcement, which would (hypothetically) include a URL pointing
at a place to obtain a hypothetical CD-ROM distribution. Your hypothetical
friend would then, hypothetically, be reduced to finding someone willing
to copy said hypothetical distribution files to hypothetically blank
TK50s (hypothetically, some extra work would have to be done to build
a hypothetically bootable standalone backup tape as well).
I'd supply the URL, but I don't have it handy and I don't recall it offhand.
Roger Ivie
ivie(a)cc.usu.edu
<Is there a difference between a DecStation 3100 and a VaxStation 3100?
<saw some of each today at one of my favorite money pits (escaped for unde
<$200 today!). Are they Vaxen or something else? I'm not too interested
<(I'm an HP 3000 guy).
DECstations is MIPS (R4000 I think) cpu and VAXstation is VAX powered.
What do they get for the oddball SCSI-68 to SCSI-50 cable
Allison
Uncle Roger <sinasohn(a)ricochet.net> wrote:
>Does anyone know of a MS-DOS (pretend it's a 10yr+ old version) compatible
>backup program that can handle a SCSI DAT drive? I have *not* been able to
>find one. If you know of one, would you know where to find a copy now?
I use a circa 1992 "ASPITAPE.SYS" driver I got from Compuserve to drive
SCSI DAT and Exabyte under MS-DOS. I even had a 'tar' that worked with it.
I'll find them and send to you in e-mail if you like.
It was made by Greg Shenaut. In the docs his e-mail address is listed
as marva4!gks1!greg(a)ucdavis.EDU . Now there's a blast from the past,
if you want to keep this thread on topic and explain e-mail in the Old Days.
<You're in high school right? Is there any chance that when you graduate
<you'll want to come out to California to work for me? I don't know if yo
Hi, I'm interested... ;) Around MA they want a PHD to hack stuff like
that now.
Right Now I'm hacking a DEC vt180 z80/cpm card to run stand alone
(without the vt100 case and power), Z280 design and a PC keyboard to
ascii translator (8749 or 8742) to fit my needs for the z280 system.
Fortunatly it's not a dead skill.
Allison
<Here's a completely hypothetical situation for you:
Here I'll make it simpler. Your can get (US residents currently)
For free a decus basic membership, then get a VMS hobbiest license.
Now, for a modest $30 you can get a CDrom with VMS versions 5.4 though
V6.1 on CDrom for hobbiest use. (Current is either 7.1 or 7.2).
So if you happen to find an old vaxen with VMS and a valid key it's
likely cool. If you need a key for said beast you know where to get
it(www.decus.org). The CDrom would be read/bootable on a vax (VMSfile
system) so a RRD40/RRD50 or scsi compatable CDrom for a VAX is needed.
now if you didn't have said CDrom drive but had the disk someone with
a vax can cut a tape from it or just give you the savesets for any
version from 5.4 through 6.1 and you would use the DECUS provided
hobbiest license key.
<Would anyone care to venture a hypothetical answer? :)
Was the above hypothetical enough.
<Also -- no longer speaking hypothetically! -- let's say that I (myself)
<wanted to get a distribution of NetBSD on TK50 tapes. Is there anyone
<in the group who could send it to me, in exchange for fresh virgin blank
<TK50 tapes? Unfortunately I have no way of writing the available TK50
<images to tape myself, or I would.
Check with the crowd on the PORT-VAX list. (check the NetBSD web page
for help).
Allison
