test-drb

test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

101090 discussions

by manney＠nwohio.com

Ya wanna get rid of it? manney(a)nwohio.com > possibly the TI-2500. i have one from the old college days - vintage early > 70's; definitely preceded the SR models. it is tan and has the label > "Datamath" next to the TI logo. 4-banger, no memory. perhaps most > recognizable by the orange "=" key in the lower right. So did the TI SR-10, IIRC

28 years, 2 months

Past Computer Manufacturers (fwd from mailbase)

by chemif＠mbox.queen.it

At 08:16 12/02/98 -0600, you wrote: >> EXATRON Stringy floppy (used tiny carts with 1/8" wide tape) > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >I remember those. They were about the only mass storage you could >get for the ZX-81 IIRC. Didn't know they were continuous loop. SINCLAIR made endless tape "MICRODRIVE" for the ZX Spectrum >> There are at least two that used modified 8track drives. Forgot their >> names. I tried 8tr for data, it was ok but the wait even for a 3minutes >> loop was painful. > >They wouldn't seem practical for on-line storage; I was thinking more >for archival applications. Of course, the $600+ pricetags for the >FDD's available at the time were painful in of themselves. TRUE was a small upgrade comparing to the tape speed. Riccardo ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ? Riccardo Romagnoli,collector of:CLASSIC COMPUTERS,TELETYPE UNITS,PHONE ? ? AND PHONECARDS I-47100 Forli'/Emilia-Romagna/Food Valley/ITALY ? ? Pager:DTMF PHONES=+39/16888(hear msg.and BEEP then 5130274*YOUR TEL.No.* ? ? where*=asterisk key | help visit http://www.tim.it/tldrin_eg/tlde03.html ? ? e-mail=chemif(a)mbox.queen.it ? ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

28 years, 2 months

System/34 once again

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

It now looks like I might at least get the manuals and so on for the thing, I don't know about actually running it. What I am wondering is if it's actually worth it. If I go ahead, it will be my first experience with a non-microcomputer. Is using this thing something I could learn from and be interested in, or is it something you would roll your eyes and groan over? Could someone who has used the thing tell me what it's like? Is its OS very system-level or does it have some degree of ease of use? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 2 months

Are We Not Men? (& Women?) [OT^2] (Was Re: PDP-8/Es available [NOT!]) (fwd)

by wirehead＠retrocomputing.com

I think the following says all that need be said about this debate. I received it from Mr. Ismail this evening. Anthony Clifton - Wirehead ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 17:12:53 -0800 (PST) From: Sam Ismail <dastar(a)wco.com> To: Wirehead Prime <wirehead(a)www.retrocomputing.com> Subject: Re: Are We Not Men? (& Women?) [OT^2] (Was Re: PDP-8/Es available [NOT!]) On Sun, 25 Jan 1998, Wirehead Prime wrote: > My mail server must have been down the day you were put in charge. I, > for one, would like to hear Mr Whitson's comments on this matter. Mr. Whitson doesn't have to comment on the matter as he already has, IN THE MANNER OF A FAQ WHICH CLEARLY EXPLAINS WHAT IS AND IS NOT ACCEPTABLE DISCUSSION FOR THIS GROUP. Any drug addled moron can determine from the FAQ that the last five days of you blowing your wad over yourself is not what is considered on-topic for a discussion group on CLASSIC COMPUTERS. > Clearly there is a question of interpretation here and, seeing as how I've > received no warnings or chastisements directly from Bill or from anyone > else for that matter, I'll assume > that your opinion is either that of the minority or differs from his to > such a degree that it isn't worth the bits wasted in its transmission. No, its really just that Bill is too busy to police the discussion. Otherwise, I'm sure he'd be objecting. Your "interpretation" of what belongs in this discussion must be based on the "This-is-my-life" FAQ, because nowhere in the FAQ does it say that what you've been discussing in acceptable. It is my interpretation that anyone who would violate the rules of the FAQ so blatantly as you have is a total ass. > I suspect that you would do well to discard your copy of _Roberts Rules of > Order_ and procure a copy of _When Anger Hurts_. A (wo)man's > maturity is > defined not so much by his principles and unwavering rigidity in the face > of that which offends him as it is by the depth of his patience and his > tolerance for others in spite of his dissatisfaction with their behavior. My god, what is your problem? Don't quote any passages from some fucken self-help book to me. Please. I'd suspect that you'd do much better to read the ClassicCmp FAQ over and over until it registers with you. > As I've said, I am not only confident but resolute that the > aforementioned discussion WAS, indeed, within the parameters set forth > for the group...IE the discussion of computer collecting, which is driven > by various motivations which are worthy of discussion in and of > themselves inasmuch as they reveal why one may wish to collect one sort > of computer over another or collect computers at all and recognizing that > we all need some reassurance, from time to time, that computer collecting > is not merely a deviance or eccentricity. Yeah, that would be all fine and dandy if that is what you were discussing, but the fact is, you were telling us all about how you never went to college, you started an ISP, you became relatively successful with it, you make twice the median income of your state, you married a beautiful woman, you think drugs are bad, blah blah blah. So what!? What does THAT have to do with collecting computers? You claim to be making some point about the motivation for collecting computers, but where was it? I think your point was more to brag about your accomplishment, which I really couldn't care less about, considering: a) I don't know you, and thus don't care and b) this is not a discussion group for talking about how good we feel about ourselves. > You reveal yourself in your words and the manner in which you convey > them. Should chastisement rain down upon me by the TRUE powers that be, > then I will accept such knowing that I did so as a mature adult and not as a > sniveling whiner. I will know that however just or unjust such If you were a "mature adult" you'd realize you are out of order and would police yourself. Think about it...only a child need be chastised for breaking rules. Why not act your physical, rather than mental, age. > judgement may be, many will recognize my sincerity and respect me for > my forthright and honest nature and my respect for others. But I will NOT Blah blah blah. There you go blowing yourself again. Thus proving my point that all you are interested in is promoting yourself. Go put up a web page about yourself if you think you're such a fantastic guy. I think the only thing people will realize in this case is that you are obscenely off-topic. > accept condescension or judgement from YOU so descend from your horse and > stand amongst men (and women) as an equal rather than a self-appointed > proclaimer of what is worthy and what is unworthy of discussion. How dramatic. Are you for real? > As for your threat of spamming, it carries little weight here as it will > result in the implementation of various hacks which function to deny > incoming mail from specific mail servers or from specific addresses. How impressive. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!

28 years, 2 months

disk equals license

by jfoust＠threedee.com

John Higginbotham <higginbo(a)netpath.net> wrote: >If I then came across a higher version for that >product and it was cheaper if you already owned a previous version (say it >takes the older version disk to upgrade to newer, then I'd expect to pay >the cheaper price, because it is upgrading the program found on my original >set of install disks, that I rightfully own. You might hope to pay the lower upgrade price, but Autodesk will surely tell you that you have someone else's copy, and without a letter of transfer, they won't sell you an upgrade. Or if the copy had already been upgraded, they'll transfer you to their anti-piracy department. >I look at it this way: If someone throws away the disks, they are giving up >their license to use the product. Not if they upgraded. It may seem ridiculous of me to pretend for the sake of argument that these disks came from a dumpster, but that's in fact the way a lot of us collectors get our stuff. :-) >I'm sure any cold blooded lawyer worth his salt could tear down my logic >and send me to the big house for having those disks and running them, but >how many would take the time, effort and money to try? That doesn't sit right with me. I don't think I should be able to reproduce someone else's software just because they can't catch me. If you have that lawyer's phone number, ask about if there are any conditions under which copyright can expire apart from the mandated number of years of protection. To help keep this on-topic, I have tried to persuade the UCSD licensing department to allow me to reproduce the Terak version of the P-System. They did once grant a right to a TI-99 user group to reproduce a P-System cartridge. I didn't have much luck because they didn't want to offend the current sole non-exclusive license holder, who is trying to sell the P-System as an alternative to Java in set-top boxes. Good luck, guys. :-) - John Jefferson Computer Museum <http://www.threedee.com/jcm>

28 years, 2 months

first bug was a myth

by manney＠nwohio.com

> I seem to remember a certain species of cockroach that was quite fond of > wire insulation... I really doubt that, sincd cockroaches eat human food. (Termites, maybe?) My brother usta work in an abandoned building. His screen went funny, and he looked down -- a rat large enough to require a driver's license was gnawing on the cable. (This was over 10 years ago, just to _pretend_ to keep this on topic).

28 years, 2 months

Apricot F1 - help, please!

by adavie＠mad.scientist.com

Having just obtained a 1984 Apricot F1 computer (and a lovely looking machine they are!) I find I can only get to the ROM boot stage. Onscreen, I have Aprictot F1, a floppy icon, a chip icon, a hand pointing down, an arrow pointing up, and thats about it. The arrow and hand are flashing. When I place disks in the drive, it spins for a bit and places an X and a number on the screen. Numbers I've seen are 4, 8 and 99. So... any proud Apricot owners out there who can help me out? I'd love to see this one go. The keyboard, by the way, is infra red - and working just fine. The mouse (I don't have one - its shown in the manuals) is actually a handheld trackball - that is, you spin it with your fingers - and its the size of mmmh.... well I guess a bread roll is a good approximation. Neat. I'll do an image of it if there is any interest. Any help appreciated. Cheers Andrew

28 years, 2 months

disk equals license

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

OK, what if people simply called up the maker of the software, told them how they got it, etc. and gave them info that they have. Chances are, that they'll either tell you to do whatever, or they'll be too busy with other things to care, and just tell you to keep it, etc. Or, they could tell you just to put it back where you found it, but you've given it your best. Tim D. Hotze -----Original Message----- From: John Foust <jfoust(a)threedee.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Thursday, February 12, 1998 6:56 PM Subject: Re: disk equals license >John Higginbotham <higginbo(a)netpath.net> wrote: >>If I then came across a higher version for that >>product and it was cheaper if you already owned a previous version (say it >>takes the older version disk to upgrade to newer, then I'd expect to pay >>the cheaper price, because it is upgrading the program found on my original >>set of install disks, that I rightfully own. > >You might hope to pay the lower upgrade price, but Autodesk will surely >tell you that you have someone else's copy, and without a letter of transfer, >they won't sell you an upgrade. Or if the copy had already been upgraded, >they'll transfer you to their anti-piracy department. > >>I look at it this way: If someone throws away the disks, they are giving up >>their license to use the product. > >Not if they upgraded. It may seem ridiculous of me to pretend for the sake >of argument that these disks came from a dumpster, but that's in fact the >way a lot of us collectors get our stuff. :-) > >>I'm sure any cold blooded lawyer worth his salt could tear down my logic >>and send me to the big house for having those disks and running them, but >>how many would take the time, effort and money to try? > >That doesn't sit right with me. I don't think I should be able to >reproduce someone else's software just because they can't catch me. >If you have that lawyer's phone number, ask about if there are >any conditions under which copyright can expire apart from the >mandated number of years of protection. > >To help keep this on-topic, I have tried to persuade the UCSD licensing >department to allow me to reproduce the Terak version of the P-System. >They did once grant a right to a TI-99 user group to reproduce a >P-System cartridge. I didn't have much luck because they didn't >want to offend the current sole non-exclusive license holder, who >is trying to sell the P-System as an alternative to Java in set-top >boxes. Good luck, guys. :-) > >- John >Jefferson Computer Museum <http://www.threedee.com/jcm> >

28 years, 2 months

The Vintage Computer Library grows...

by jfoust＠threedee.com

Sam Ismail <dastar(a)wco.com> wrote: >I found a California Access "Bodega Bay". It's an Amiga 500 >expansion chassis! >Does anyone have any solid technical information on this? Unfortunately >in all the books and manuals I brought home not one was for this thing. Sure, I've got all the Amiga developer conference notes and developer packets from Commodore in the basement, including the rare Janus (Bridgeboard) programming guide, if you find a Bridgeboard. Circa 1987, I was technical editor of an Amiga magazine and was once known as "the father of Amiga journalism." :-) I stopped paying close attention around 1991, though. There's plenty of info on the web - just start entering keywords into www.hotbot.com and www.dejanews.com and you'll find more than you want to know. >I remember last >year picking up a California Access 3.5" floppy drive with a DB-25 >connector, and now I know what it went to! They sold external Amiga floppies that could be used on any model of Amiga - but its floppy port has 23 pins, not 25. - John Jefferson Computer Museum <http://www.threedee.com/jcm>

28 years, 2 months

first bug was a myth

by adavie＠mad.scientist.com

>The programmer was Grace Hopper (later to become Admiral). Rear-Admiral, I think.

28 years, 2 months

Past Computer Manufacturers (fwd from mailbase)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<8-Track was such a corporate 'Soap Opera'. I'm a little bit <surprised that endless loop recording wasn't used much for computer <data back then. You missed something then. EXATRON Stringy floppy (used tiny carts with 1/8" wide tape) There are at least two that used modified 8track drives. Forgot their names. I tried 8tr for data, it was ok but the wait even for a 3minutes loop was painful. Allison

28 years, 2 months

No Subject

by Marty＠itgonline.com

Re: Early PC kit mfgr? If I'm not mistaken this sounds like the MITS (Altair 8800) story. An excellent source of information relating to early pc history can be found in the book 'Hackers' by Steven Levy, published in 1984. It was available in paperback (mine is falling apart). Marty Mintzell

28 years, 2 months

No Subject

by Marty＠itgonline.com

Re: Possible source for parts Now that the Psychic Hotline so fervently pitched by Dionne Warwick has filed for bankruptcy (go figure > these were the REAL PSYCHICS, not those other phony ones) I suppose we should expect to see infomercials for 'The Gold Recovery Expert' on late night cable. I can't wait. Anyway, I don't think this guy is a crook, just another gold digger. I agree with Zane, don't expect to get any spare parts from this guy unless you want to pay by the Troy ounce. For a reputable scrap dealer look under scrap/salvage in your local yellow pages. Marty Mintzell

28 years, 2 months

Disk problems/questions.

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Yes, the head widths are different, but I have always been under the <impression that using the /f or /f:360 switch with format changes the wri <current on the drive to adjust for the different coercitivity (sp?) of th Assuming the drive/controller are correctly configured. My FD55Gs have three different jumpers for write current, speed and a dual function one. Of course the media must match the write current/speeds. The narrower head is a big factor as it is optimized for a narrower track and the gap dimensions are tuned a bit for that. When I first encounterd it I could not understand it and then I O'scoped a pair of drives and the read on a 360k(48tpi) drive data from a track written on a 96tpi and the data waveforms were terrible. Too much noise from the periphery of the adjacent track and effectively less than half the magnetic strength imparted on the read head. Having played seriously with magnetics the media and head do have to be matched. This however does not solve the posters question. My cut on that is if the media was created on a know good 360k drive and it doesn't read right on a unknown drive, one of them is broken. ;) Allison

28 years, 2 months

Disk problems/questions.

by bmpete＠swbell.net

I have encountered a puzzling problem and hope for some insight; I've been trying to verify my box of DSDD floppy drives (On-topically >10 years old) so I set up a 386DX-33 (Consider it a perpiperal to my older systems) After configuring B: to 360KB, I can format/verify a diskette. When I run Norton DD, (Ver. 6.01, IIRC) it says the disk, and I assume the drive, is/are fine. When I run Scandisk (MSDOS 6.22) it says the Media Descriptor Byte is wrong and warns of dire consequences. It also says the FAT copy is wrong! I check the Media Descriptor byte, before and after Scandisk fixes it, and it's always $FD. Does Scandisk have a bug WRT 360KB disks? I'm tempted to ignore it, but... _______________ Barry Peterson bmpete(a)swbell.net Husband to Diane, Father to Doug, Grandfather to Zoe and Tegan.

28 years, 2 months

Real hackers

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

><From CLASSICCMP-owner(a)u.washington.edu Wed Feb 11 17:59:22 1998 > ><People try, but the age of hacking is gone. Right now, there is just ><nothing exciting in the computing industry. Wait till holographic ><memory, and so on. As for people who think that they are "hackers" and > >You got to be kidding. Just look around the edges at things like >autonomus robots and navagation to suggest a few. Theres plenty to be >done. Yes, and one of the most evedeint (to me) is Artificial Intelligence. If they're programmers that can do it, they'll probably be hackers. And, you can tie that in with robotics, etc. to make a true human-computer interface, something which could completely revolutionize what we're doing, or, better yet, trying to do.

28 years, 2 months

disk equals license

by higginbo＠netpath.net

At 09:23 PM 2/11/98 -0600, you wrote: >It really depends upon the company, I imagine, but I support the notion >that if your dumpster set is the last version purchased for that license, >(i.e., the former owner hasn't upgraded and is no longer using the program) >then sure, you can upgrade it. If, however, that's not the last version, >then it is not a valid version. But if you don't know if it is the latest version on that license, is it really hurting the company? If I'm dumpster diving for this stuff, it stands to reason that I wouldn't normally buy that same product in the store. >eliminate any of those, you can reduce the price. Downloading software >with on-line manuals eliminates the media and packaging cost, so that is >often cheaper. That's one thing that gets me: Software coming out today with no manuals still cost the same ammount when first released as earlier manual included packages. >The SPA has done that -- to set examples. But realistically, I wouldn't >worry about it. I never do. :) -John Higginbotham- -limbo.netpath.net-

28 years, 2 months

disk equals license

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 12:24 PM 2/11/98 -0500, you wrote: >Sounds legit to me. If I found a disk set of Autodesk 3d Studio in the >dumpster, just the disks, no manuals, I'd sure as heck use it, but wouldn't >expect any company support. If I then came across a higher version for that >product and it was cheaper if you already owned a previous version (say it >takes the older version disk to upgrade to newer, then I'd expect to pay >the cheaper price, because it is upgrading the program found on my original It really depends upon the company, I imagine, but I support the notion that if your dumpster set is the last version purchased for that license, (i.e., the former owner hasn't upgraded and is no longer using the program) then sure, you can upgrade it. If, however, that's not the last version, then it is not a valid version. As I see it, there is a reason for offering an upgrade discount. The cost of a piece of software is made up of several things: development costs, media/packaging costs, support costs, and (of course) profit. If you can eliminate any of those, you can reduce the price. Downloading software with on-line manuals eliminates the media and packaging cost, so that is often cheaper. If you sell a piece of software to someone who already knows how to use it, you can budget a lower support cost, hence the upgrade price. Fishing a set of disks out of the dumpster does not necessarily reduce your expected support needs; in some cases it may (hey, if you're dumpster diving for software, you're probably not a newbie) and in some cases, it might increase your need for support ("I installed this software, but it won't run" [three hours later] "oh, you're missing the frobnitzer disk. I'll send it to you."). (Note that making your software compatible with XYZ, the most popular program can reduce support needs as well, hence the competitive upgrade idea.) >I'm sure any cold blooded lawyer worth his salt could tear down my logic >and send me to the big house for having those disks and running them, but >how many would take the time, effort and money to try? The SPA has done that -- to set examples. But realistically, I wouldn't worry about it. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 2 months

Slipsticks and calculators and a clock

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<At 16:37 2/4/98 -0500, Allison wrote: <><>My first one was the SR-10...the <><>"wedge". $110, IIRC....Was that TI's first? <> <>Not by a long shot. The first was in late '71 and went for about $140 <>(8digit 4banger). I had one going into EE school. < <But that WAS the SR-10. No it was not. the sr-10 was two years later and wedge shaped. This was barely pocket sized and not wedge shaped. the sr10 has a few things this one didn't like constant. I also have an SR11. Allison

28 years, 2 months

Early PC kit mfgr?

by wpe＠interserv.com

Someone related a story to me about a company (now defunct, and he couldn't remember the name) in the Southwest, that manufactured calculators... Supposedly, in an effort to obtain a loan (and thus, stave off bankruptcy), they told a lending institution that they wanted to "manufacture computers for the home hobbyist market, in kit form"... Supposedly, word got out, and they received copious orders (which I presume (never got the details)) they couldn't fill... Anybody know the "story behind the story", or was this guy "snowing" me? Will

28 years, 2 months

Real hackers

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<From CLASSICCMP-owner(a)u.washington.edu Wed Feb 11 17:59:22 1998 <People try, but the age of hacking is gone. Right now, there is just <nothing exciting in the computing industry. Wait till holographic <memory, and so on. As for people who think that they are "hackers" and You got to be kidding. Just look around the edges at things like autonomus robots and navagation to suggest a few. Theres plenty to be done. Allison

28 years, 2 months

Past Computer Manufacturers (fwd from mailbase)

by engine＠chac.org

>Organization: The University of Huddersfield HEC >Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 17:08:31 +0100 >Subject: Past Computer Manufacturers >From: "P.ATKINSON" <sdespa(a)pegasus.hud.ac.uk> > >I am currently working on a paper looking at the development of the >designed form of the office computer, and to that end am trying to >find out if certain computer manufacturers still exist or if not, what >happened to them. If anyone has any idea I would be grateful, as I >have to try to contact them in order to obtain copyright clearance. > >The companies concerned are: > >Muldivo >Sanders >Lear Siegler (Data Dynamics) >Kienzle >Mael >Torch > >Hope someone can help [and if anybody can, we can.... ;-) -- kc] >Paul Atkinson __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine(a)chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California

28 years, 2 months

Real hackers

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

>I always thought it was a desire to _attain_ knowledge and apply it. > ^^^^^^ > Technology = applied knowledge, therefore a desire to attain knowledge and use technology. Now, unfortunately, people know that there is no reason to make a good product because a) Noone makes good products b) They won't be proud of it anyway because the product won't be noticed in the face of estabilished stuff. People try, but the age of hacking is gone. Right now, there is just nothing exciting in the computing industry. Wait till holographic memory, and so on. As for people who think that they are "hackers" and all they can do is use a Wardialer, I think they just need to feel proud of something they do. These are mainly people who have no other way of supporting themselves morally/emotionally. As the Unabomber would say, "They have a disruption in their power process". What really doesn't help is the "Hackers Manifesto", which pretends to imply that the hackers are "fighting for a cause" of "freedom of information". If you ask me, these "modern", "new age" ideas of freedom and community will invariably lead to either something like the USSR or the USA. The USSR is unquestionably a disaster in so many ways, and the USA is, in my opinion, getting there. Ok, kiddies, back on topic now... :) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 2 months

Off topic, but a decent question...

by manney＠nwohio.com

Check that the partition is active (use FDISK). Have you checked it for a virus? manney(a)nwohio.com

28 years, 2 months

first bug was a myth

by manney＠nwohio.com

This is not the origin of the term "bug". My source sez that it was in use at least as far back as Edison's time. > Can anyone confirm this is the origin of the term "bug"?

28 years, 2 months

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