I snarfed this ad off some classified ads web site. Maybe someone in
Southern Cal has a truck handy....
----------------------------------------------------------------------
COMPLETE network system, 1 mainframe, 7 stations,
fast & reliable, great for small business, sacrifice, $350
or trade for ?
(310) 822-4052
$350
--
mor(a)crl.com
http://www.crl.com/~mor/
I made some nice acquisitions to add to the old silicon heap today.
I found an ATR-8000 ($7). The ATR-8000 was an adjunct CP/M box for the
Atari 400/800/XL computers. To use it, you plugged a special cart into
the Atari which was really just a terminal program. The Atari then acted
as a terminal to the ATR-8000 (the connection from the ATR-8000 to the
Atari was via serial cable). The ATR-8000 had external connectors for
floppy drives (since you couldn't actually use the Atari drives on the
ATR) and a printer connector. The ATR-8000 could actually be used as a
stand-alone CP/M computer if you wanted to. You could just connect a
terminal and some disk drives to it and voila, instant CP/M machine.
Which is interesting to note because...
The next find was ANOTHER ATR-8000 (!) but this time with a TeleVideo 925
terminal and two half-height dual floppy drives attached to it.
Basically, an ATR-8000 in a stand-alone configuration! Cool. But this
was even a better deal...$5 for the whole lot.
My next nice find was an Intellec MDS chassis. The ship date on the back
shows 10/77 so I imagine it is a later model than what I've seen in
pictures. The front panel has 8 interrupt switches, and a momentary BOOT
switch and a RESET switch. There's also a HALT and RUN light. There were
two cards inside...one is a Monitor Module and the other is a wire-wrap
mess that I can't figure out. I also got a bare wire-wrap card. The
chassis was slightly beat up, as some parts of the face ridges were broken
off, so I talked the guy down to $10.
I got a Momenta pen-based computer. It's shaped like a wedge. I got it
in the box but it was in so-so shape. I got two battery packs but neither
is charged, and unfortunately I didn't get the charger or wall apadtor
with it. On the box it said "For technical service call 1-800-MOMENTA"
so I called but it rang and rang. A sort of good sign I guess. I'll try
during the week and see what I get. I'd be interested to know anything
that anyone possibly knows about this thing. Circa 1991. $15.
I found a real nice book: _Microcomputer Dictionary: (Second Edition)_ by
Charles J. Sippl (Howard Samms, 1981, ISBN: 0-672-21696-5). It has some
more excellent pictures of stuff I've never even heard of or seen before.
I'll be scanning these pictures in and posting them to the web page.
Of course it also has all sorts of definitions for computer terms and
such. $1.
Next find was a this kinky little Japanse 286 box, a Sharp MZ-6500 Model
50. All the markings were in Japanese (or is that more properly Kanji?).
It had a "100V" plug as well as a strange plug that I assume is for
outlets in Japan. It has two 3.5" floppies, an ST-125 HD, and a strange
motherboard layout. It was in superb shape. Not really a classic, but
cool looking. The guy wanted to get rid of it so I got it for $3.
Other finds: a DEC VT-100 terminal for $.50 (yes, cents), and a TI-99/4a
for laughs.
It was a good day.
Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass
Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
I've placed the requested view on the page...
http://www.comcen.com.au/~adavie/weird/datanumerics.html
The motherboard is marked REV A
The serial # of the machine is 00029
I doubt there could have been many more of these made.
Enjoy!
A
-----Original Message-----
From: Greg Troutman <mor(a)crl.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Wednesday, March 04, 1998 6:06 PM
Subject: Re: Datanumerics DL8A is here! Have a peek @ ...
>Andrew Davie wrote:
>>
>> It arrived 10 minutes ago.
>> I'm so excited, I just put up a quick web page so you can all see it.
>> Its obviously not an IMSAI...? So... anyone know anything about it.
>> Comments appreciated (even "I want it!!")
>
>She's purdy. How about a tight close-up on the data switches and status
>lights--I've got a fetish ;)
Altair in sheep's clothing? Not a chance! Wait till you see inside!
The motherboard is organised in ROWS of chips, something like A to F
And... it's stationed at the top (ie: roof) of the machine.
Amazing amazing. Its an 8080A by the way.
A
-----Original Message-----
From: Doug Yowza <yowza(a)yowza.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Wednesday, March 04, 1998 5:57 PM
Subject: Re: Datanumerics DL8A is here! Have a peek @ ...
>On Wed, 4 Mar 1998, Andrew Davie wrote:
>
>> It arrived 10 minutes ago.
>> I'm so excited, I just put up a quick web page so you can all see it.
>> Its obviously not an IMSAI...? So... anyone know anything about it.
>> Comments appreciated (even "I want it!!")
>
>OK, I want it!! Very cool. It looks a lot like an Altair (from the pix,
>I saw a one-to-one correspondence to Altair toggles). According to Hans
>Pufal's list, it came out the same year as the Altair (1975):
> http://www.digiweb.com/~hansp/ccc/clist3.htm
>
>Any chance it is an Altair in sheep's clothing?
>
>-- Doug
>
>
Hi,
Does anyone know anything about the AT&T 6300? I've read a few
descriptions on the Web,
but was wondering if they are rare, difficult to find, etc? I have an
opportunity to get one
but don't know much about them.
Thanks...Win
wheagy(a)erols.com
Hi Andrew!
I have a lead for you - Acorn BBC books and software for sale in Vic, for
$5. phone (03) 9596-6454.
Also, if you are intersted, I know of three computers for sale which may
interest you. In Vic there is an Amstrad PCW 8512 - you probably know
them, but they are word processors with CP/M compatability, reasonably
common but they can be hard to come by. And in Adelaide there are two -
a faulty Apple Lisa 2/10 (bad HD, possibly repairable) for $150, and a HP
9835 desktop computer, with 9" drive, software and connectors for $50.
Any of these interest you? If you want the Lisa I'll have to get it
soon, but I do have the original OS somewhere which I can copy off for
you, and unprotect at least the system disk - however I can't do so (yet)
with the apps. No rush with the HP, though.
Adam.
OK... while we're on off topic, ;-) Is there any way that I could get my
hands on the individual componets for making a "nano PC", prefferably just a
small one?
-----Original Message-----
From: Doug Yowza <yowza(a)yowza.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Tuesday, March 03, 1998 10:35 PM
Subject: Re: Off-charter chatter: nano-PC's
>On Tue, 3 Mar 1998, Tim Shoppa wrote:
>
>> I just received some brochures from my local embedded PC supplier, and
some
>> of the miniaturization that's being done is incredible. There's a
>> company in Germany called JUMPtec which sells a product called the
>> DIMM-PC; it puts a 33 MHz 80386, 4 Mbytes of RAM, a bootable flash
>> harddisk and an AMI BIOS, a real time clock, and interfaces for
>> external IDE drives, floppy drives, printer, 2 COM ports, and keyboard
>> all on a board that is only 68mm x 40mm (that's 1.57 x 2.68 inches.)
>
>Wow, a keyboard in that form factor is incredible :-) You're right, there
>are lots of choices in the embedded space. The smallest full-blown PC
>with built-in display and keyboard that I know of has gotta be the IBM
>PC-110. For a size comparison of a normal laptop, a PC-110, and IBM's
>(new?) credit-card computer, see:
> http://www.kako.com/museum/ibm.html
>
>To get even further off-topic, has anybody here written 6805 wristapps for
>their Timex/Microsoft DataLink watch? Try:
> http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/7650/
>
>-- Doug
>
>
I'm trying to make a "semi-nano PC" myself...
><3.5"? That's a "standard" off-the-shelf IDE disk, isn't it? 2.5" is
><a standard off-the-shelf laptop IDE drive. 1.8" drives are also
>I'd rather 2.5 or smaller but a really cheap 3.5 is ok.
2.5" drives arn't hard to find. A while back, Data Probe
(http://www.dataprobeintl.com ; sales(a)dataprobeintl.com) had even 500MB
notebook drives for around $50 (used), they were 2.5". They weren't listed
on their website, you'd have to ask them...
And, I'd recommend the Kittyhawks. That, or there's soupossed to be a
re-writable ROM-like 1" square coming out, right now, they've got 20 and 40
MB versions,with 80MB coming soon...
>The is at most a one up for myself(non commercial design).
Same here.
Ciao,
Tim D. Hotze
>I'll differ on this point. one of the primary things that killed the
'6300
>was that it was NOT totally IBM compatable. The video subsystem (noted
>below) is a prime example.
Is it possible to somehow slap a CGA or any standard monitor into
one of those?
>>Hard drives were optional in them and not very reliable IMO.
>
>The drives they used overall were not notably better or worse than most
of
>the time. They did make some poor choices at times on who to buy their
>drives from.
>
I will say that my only experience w/a 6300 was one that got to me
because of a dead hard drive. I ended up gutting and trashing it. I
hold old microchips in the fan housing. This was also my only experience
with a dead hard drive.
Was the thing designed for UNIX or was it just a plain "enhanced" PC
clone?
P.S. In OOP, can an object kill another object to inherit it?
>---
>jimw(a)agora.rdrop.com
>The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw
>Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174
>
>
>
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>It seems that a lot of you blokes down under have Sorcerers. Were they
>marketed a lot more "down there" than they were in the US? They are not
>very common over here.
They aren't common here, but in Adelaide (South Australia) we still have
a Sorcerer's User Group running. I suspect that it is entirely social,
but it is there. Because Dick Smith imported them so early, it was one
of (if not the) first complete microcomputer systems available here, and
even then Dick Smith had a fairly large chain of stores. This gave it a
major advantage over its rivals (aside from the fact that it is a pretty
good system in teh first place). I also know someone who took one with
him when he went to the Antartic for 12 months. :)
Dick Smith, as I believe Andrew mentioned, sold a number of computers
here. The Sorcerer was sold as a Sorcerer, but they also sold the TRS-80
clone he mentioned (the System 80), two Laser computers (the Dick Smith
VZ-200 and VZ-300), the Creativision (the Dick Smith Wizzard), a kit
computer (the Super 80), and an Apple II clone (the Dick Smith Cat). I
was told the System 80 was a rebadged Laser, but I don't remember if they
made TRS-80 clones, and can't find any evidence to prove that the System
80 wasn't DSE's own system. The Super 80 I believe was actually theirs,
but I don't have one to check, and the Cat I assume was a rebadged clone
- I have a lead on one, but I have to go collect it. :) The VZs and
Wizzard were simply rebadged.
After a while they just started importing PC clones like everone else. I
do remember they had the one luggable, which I imagine was CP/M based,
but I'd have to do some research to find out who's it was.
Adam.
On Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 00:53:07 -0500 (EST), J. Maynard Gelinas"
<jmg(a)iac.net> wrote:
>>Yeah, I think you would be better off netbooting the thing via
>>bootp rather than building a bootable tape. I have a couple 3/80's
>>here at home, and there are bunches of old 3/50's lying around at work
>>(the government owns them, they'll be there till the sun explodes).
>>The 3/50 didn't support CDROM's from the PROM as I remember, so you're
>>going to have to either make a bootable tape or netboot it. Do you
>>have another UNIX or Linux box and a LAN nearby?
I have a small Windows LAN at home, but no Unix boxes setup. I guess
that this weekend I'll be setting one up...
Rich Cini/WUGNET
<nospam_rcini(a)msn.com> (remove nospam_ to use)
ClubWin! Charter Member (6)
MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking
============================================
On Tue, 03 Mar 1998 01:56:54 +0000, David Wollmann <dwollmann(a)ibmhelp.com>
wrote:
>>I bet if I look in storage I still have a couple of parted-out S/23s
>>from which I could lift the ROM you need. Since I'm not much on the
>>electronics side of things (I'm just a poor board-swapper) give me the
>>numbers and a general idea of where it's located in the box and I'll see
>>if I have one. May take me a couple of weeks.
It is the "09" ROS. Here's the diagram that I got from Philip Belben:
** TOP VIEW OF PLANAR SEEN FROM THE REAR **
_______________________________________________
| ====== ====== <-- NOT FOUND ON |
| | 10 | | 11 | <-- SOME EARLY |
| =3=40= =3=60= <-- MACHINES |
| |
| ====== ====== |
| | 19 | | 0D | |
| =7=60= =1=60= |
| *********************** |
| =PATCH= ====== * PHYSICAL LOCATION * |
| | 18 | | 0C | * OF ROS MODULES * |
| =7=40== =1=40= * FOR EACH ERROR CODE * |
| *********************** |
| ====== ====== |
| | 17 | | 0B | -KEY- |
| =6=60= =0=60= ====== |
| | XX | |
| ====== ====== =Y=ZZ= |
| | 16 | | 0A | XX=POD ERROR CODE |
| =6=40= =0=40= Y=ROS PAGE VALUE |
| ZZ=HIGH ORDER BYTE OF |
| ====== ====== FIRST ADDRESS IN |
| | 15 | | 09 | ROS MODULE. |
| =5=60= =0=20= |
| ---(CABLE)-------------- |
| ====== ====== | ====== | |
| | 14 | | 02 | | | 09 | CO-PLANAR | |
| =5=40= =0=00= | =0=20= BOARD. | |
| | (FOUND ON | |
| ====== | ====== SOME EARLY | |
| | 13 | | | 10 | MACHINES.) | |
| =4=60= | =3=40= | |
| | | |
| ====== | ====== | |
| | 12 | | | 11 | | |
| =4=40= | =3=60= | |
| ------------------------ |
-----------------------------------------------
Rich Cini/WUGNET
<nospam_rcini(a)msn.com> (remove nospam_ to use)
ClubWin! Charter Member (6)
MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking
============================================
On 1998-03-03 classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu said to lisard(a)zetnet.co.uk
:As Joe said, HP classed a lot of things as 'calculators' to get
:round daft export rules...
:IIRC, officially the HP71B is a computer (QWERTY keyboard, Basic),
:but the HP48 is a calculator (alphabetical keyboard, RPL). They use
:virtually the same processor (Saturn), although the HP48 has a few
:more machine instructions.
cx ( <- hello, from firstborn)
it's possible that marketing could have something to do with that too.
we'd rather, and we suspect most engineers would rather, use the hp48 -
but since rpl fits in well with hp's use of rpn in its calculator range,
it probably fit better into the calculator family, and would have been
more targeted at the engineers who cut their teeth on its predecessors.
:> (or do their design engineers just design things they can hack
:>between meetings? ;> )
:You mean _during_ meetings, surely...
well, we meant between design meetings, when one would assume they'd all
be focused on designing the next piece of kit they could hack during
meetings with the pointy-haired bosses... ;>
(now someone's going to turn round and tell us that the pointy-haired
bosses in hp hack on their hp48s during meetings, and wear their hair
that way because they don't know where to find a decent hairdresser.
we've heard about hp.)
--
Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling
you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her...
On Mon, 02 Mar 1998 20:45:17 -0500, John Ruschmeyer <jruschme(a)exit109.com>
wrote:
>>suppose the first question is... what OS is on the PC? If you were
>>running some unix variant (Linux or *BSD), then you could just netboot the
>>Sun and go from there.
I think what I'll probably too is trash the HD on an "experimental" 486
that I have and install either NetBSD or SCO OpenServer. From there, I
should be able to create a boot tape and an install tape, and then start the
install from the 3/50
>>Just a thought, your might want to join the Suns-At-Home mailing list
Thanks for the SAH list. I already belong. No specific ideas from anyone
there yet.
Rich Cini/WUGNET
<nospam_rcini(a)msn.com> (remove nospam_ to use)
ClubWin! Charter Member (6)
MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking
============================================
doug:
:Intel themselves produced non-pc-compatible 286 machines (and
:others, of course). Do we have any hypercube hackers here?
oh, yes, we'd forgotten them... does anyone know where we can *get* one,
more to the point? :> but we meant things that were more like the sirius
1 in conception - desktop machines, but not stuck with the cruddy pc
architecture.
--
Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling
you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her...
On 1998-03-02 classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu said to lisard(a)zetnet.co.uk
:I bought several and am toying with making a few "ultra miniature"
:computer accessories ("matchbox" computers?)
off-topic, but...
the computer we would really love to use has a main box that's the size
of 2 3.5" floppy drives one atop the other, and standing on that is a
little 6" mono crt with a resolution of 384x256. the keyboard is about
the size of the keyboard on the cambridge z88. the processor is a
hitachi 6309 running in native mode, and the software is forth. and you
have to hold the thing when you put a disk in. needless to say, there's
no hard drive, but the floppy can fit 1800 screens on it, so that's no
problem.
of course, it was never made... but we'd love to see it.
--
Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling
you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her...
zane healy on ge635...
:IIRC they ran either GECOS (General Electric Comprehinsive Operating
:System), or the better known Multics. I believe they are also an
they ran gecos. the ge645 would support multics, but the 635 didn't have
the paging hardware. the multics faqs make great reading, btw.
http://www.best.com/thvv/ (from memory, might be wrong, might be ~thvv)
--
Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling
you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her...
tony duell:
:Another thing worth grabbing are old data books. There are standard
:chips that are used in old computers - things like the 8271 disk
:controller, the AM2900 bit-slice chips, 4004's and 4040's, etc that
:don't appear in recent data books. A data sheet will help you to
:determine if a chip has failed, and how to make a replacement if it
:has. I'm trying to obtain all that I can.
before we were seriously interested in this stuff - or rather, since we
were designing 68000-based computers at the age of 12, between interests
- we had a whole stack of data sheets donated by a teacher's boyfriend
who worked for the uk distributors of sage before they became stride.
(what happened to them, btw?) it's a damned shame that when we were
about 16 we threw the whole lot out to regain some space in our bedroom.
if only we knew then... :< we'd give anything to have them back.
--
Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling
you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her...
max eskin...
:I have heard enough on this topic without understanding what it
:meant! What is the difference between vector and bitmapped graphics,
:and who was first to use each? Why are vector graphics
:stereotypically used in mainframes and bitmapped used in cheap
:weenie "home computers"?
dunno about first - but in vector graphics, you have a crt under direct
control of the computer, and you tell it to go to a point, switch the
beam on, go to another point, maybe switch the beam off, etc. etc. very
high resolution, but refresh speed is inversely proportional to the
number of lines on the display. in bitmapped graphics, you use a
conventional rasterised display (the horizontal lines) and a map of
bits which correspond to each line of the display and say whether the
beam is on or off at that point. unless you count williams tubes, vector
graphics came first, because you could use any old oscilloscope and
memory was precious. now memory is cheap enough to make bitmaps viable
in even the smallest computers, and monitors are readily available. the
price paid is blocky lines.
--
Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling
you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her...
< Does anybody know what the production numbers were for the Processor
< Technology Sol-20? Also, does anybody know when PT went out of
< business? Was it due to the Persci drives in the Helios II as I've
< been told? A co-worker of mine said the Persci drive heads were
< actuated by a voice coil and while they had an extremely fast access
< time (for the day) they were unrelible. I'd appreciate any
< information.
crock!
PT like many of the time were susceptable to the volitile market and
over extended and went under. Good machine and the Persci drives were
very late in the program when they were nearly gone.
I think the SOL-20 was about 10,000 before the folded.
Allison
<One more question to go along with this subject. I obtained a Sol but
<have no disk drive. What does it take to add the disk interface and wha
<disk drive would work. Any disk based software or OS available?
The micropolos and NorthStar controllers and matching drives were common.
Most any s100 floppy or hard disk system could be used if:
=The controller would work well with a 2mhz 8080 (some DD controllers
would not).
=the controller fit in the available slots (there were only a few)
=The controller didn't use too much power
=The drive had their own power supply
Allison
The North Star setup was pretty common on the SOL. I have CP/M set up for
the SOL with a North Star disk system. You'd need a North Star controller
board, and any standard external 5 1/4" drive.
Kai
> -----Original Message-----
> From: George Rachor [SMTP:george@racsys.rt.rain.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 1998 1:37 PM
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
> Subject: Re: Processor Technology Sol-20
>
> One more question to go along with this subject. I obtained a Sol but
> have no disk drive. What does it take to add the disk interface and what
> disk drive would work. Any disk based software or OS available?
>
> George Rachor
>
> =========================================================
> George L. Rachor george(a)racsys.rt.rain.com
> Beaverton, Oregon http://racsys.rt.rain.com
>
> On Tue, 3 Mar 1998, Marty wrote:
>
> > Does anybody know what the production numbers were for the Processor
> > Technology Sol-20? Also, does anybody know when PT went out of
> > business? Was it due to the Persci drives in the Helios II as I've
> > been told? A co-worker of mine said the Persci drive heads were
> > actuated by a voice coil and while they had an extremely fast access
> > time (for the day) they were unrelible. I'd appreciate any
> > information.
> >
> > Thanks-
> >
> > Marty Mintzell
> >
> >
Some of the drives that I've seen actually have the connectors extending
out, as if they're on a seperate piece of equipment alltogether. Now,
anyone know about what type of power connector (small, like on a 1.44MB
floppy, large, like on normal HDDs, or non-standard?) Also, is there any
way to make a 44-pin connector into a 40-pin connector (for a standard
dekstop?) Also, I've gotten into the whole mini-PC idea. So, I want to
build one. The hard drive'll probably end up being a Kittyhawk, I'm
currently thinking an x86 CPU (as little power and size as possible. I know
that the AMD Elan 400 COULD work but I haven't seen them resold, and I'd
need drivers for the built in stuff, etc.) So, if anyone has any info on
this, I'd love for them to contact me personally. (If they could put
"Building a Mini-PC" or something in the subject, so I could know that it
wasn't a ClassicCmp post...)
TIA,
Tim D. Hotze
-----Original Message-----
From: Philip.Belben(a)powertech.co.uk <Philip.Belben(a)powertech.co.uk>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Tuesday, March 03, 1998 4:17 PM
Subject: Re[2]: A possible (future) classic.
>Joe on Kittyhawk drives:
>
>> Do these drives use a standard interface? They're neat drives, it's a
>> shame that HP quit building them.
>
>Gary pointed us at a web site:
>
>> http://www.allelec.com
>
>according to which they are 44-pin IDE the same as most laptop IDE
>drives. I'm not quite sure how that would fit in such a small drive,
>but...
>
>Philip.
>
<SurplusDirect (www.surplusdirect.com) had some 40mb PCMCIA hard drives o
<sale a while back. Brand new units, priced around $20-$40, can't recall
<exact price.
I don't have data on PCMCIA and removable is not a requirement. I will
look at them if I can find data on the interconnect as it's not going into
a PC.
Allison
