test-drb

test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

101090 discussions

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

[Viewing an attached word file on an HP-UX] a)Most people working on PCs with Word have no idea what an HP-UX is b)Most such people have no idea that there is a machine on the planet not running word c)Most such people don't even realize that they are running word or attaching a word format file to email It is a byproduct of things being easy to use. Same reason as many americans have no idea where England is. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 1 month

Arrrgh! Micro$h*t again....

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<I mean it's "software for the the masses," everything's a black box. If t <Win 95 registry gets hosed, re-install the whole OS (I've yet to remedy It's why win3.1 is the windowing system on my dosbox. It's stable enough for me and my standard is VAX/VMS (24x7x365 and it's no joke!). But I had to work to get it that way. <damaged registry by restoring a backup), then all your apps (10 or 15 in <case); it's a full 10 hour project for me, even with Win95 and most apps <CD, and any install diskettes loaded on a single Zip disk. Windows(3.x, 95, ???) is the only OS that ever needed to reload to fix! VMS files that are that critical can be protected to the stars if need be. <Linux/Unix OTOH, if it's screwed up, just figure out which script to fix While I'm not excited about linux yet, I've never seen it eat itself either. <I think if there were only one target to go after, Gates would have the <"owners" of Linux in his board room tomorrow, trying to pressure them int <selling out so he could eliminate the threat. I wonder if he's tried to <romance Linus yet? Wouldn't do him much as the OS is PD and even if successivve versions weren't it would be hard to lock that market. <>But AFAIK, Gates's BASIC <>interpreter for the altair required a RAM add-on pack! Truly bloatware <>from day one. Why Gates decided to flip the switches on the front <>panel several thousand extra times mystifies me. Maybe that's why <>you're all getting Altairs with worn out switches;) HUH? What? The altairs needed 4k of ram to run 4k basic and 8k to run 8kbasic. Basic8k for altair was only about 6100 bytes. THere were smaller basics but all of them gave up something, like floating point or strings. As to the switch flipping, that was due to the crummy MITS 88ACR that would often require several tries to get a clean load. After it BASIC loaded the switches were an artifact though to could input data via port FFh under program control. To beat the need to pound switches I put a small 64byte bootrom on a board and copied the loaded image to phase encoded digital tape(home brew) to get from the slow error prone 300baud to a zippy and I may add very reliable 4800. Don't blame the cow for soggy cereal. I would say that 8kbasic was the first decent software product from MS though it was soon to change in the early 80s. FYI the Extended BASIC interpreter for CP/M-80 and the BASCOM Compiler for CP/M-80 were excellent products. Neither were bloatware by any standard. Allison

28 years, 1 month

What's with the raw HTML?

by cgregory＠lrbcg.com

I don't want to be the skunk at the lawn party here, but it should be pointed out that e-mail is fast becoming the communication medium of choice for both business and pleasure. I suppose you could argue that there is no need for a company to have a fancy letterhead, nor a mass mailer to have colored brochures, nor ladies to have flowered and/or scented stationery, yet we do have all these things, and more. Consider how boring text-only, fixed-font mail would be. Or did Henry Ford have it right when he proclaimed that all we really "needed" was black automobiles? Yes, I understand the argument that in the case of snail mail, the sender pays for all the frills, but in the case of e-mail, the recipient more than likely pays with longer download times, disk clutter, etc. A very valid and not trivial point. Nevertheless, technology marches on, and as cable modems (or whatever) become the norm rather than the exception, "waste" of bandwidth and its associated costs will cease to an issue with the computing public at large. If my wife wants to embed scanned newspaper clippings or a kid's picture in an email to her cousin across country, who am I (or anyone) to object? I don't disagree with much that has been said here on the subject. I don't use HTML formatted e-mail, and don't especially like receiving it, nonetheless I accept that sooner or later it will become the norm (I don't like the term "standard") rather than the exception. Formatted email may never be, nor probably should be, appropriate on a classic computer mailing list; yet, who knows, in ten years or so the definition of "classic computer" may change as well. Cliff Gregory cgregory(a)lrbcg.com -----Original Message----- From: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> To: Cgregory <Cgregory> Date: Sunday, March 15, 1998 3:14 PM Subject: Re: What's with the raw HTML? > >You missed the point. There is no argument. As far as I'm concerned, >there's absolutely no point to sending e-mail as HTML. > >Allison said it best though... > >> What a waste of bandwidth. > >And how. > >Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- >Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass > > Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 > See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! > >

28 years, 1 month

IIGS

by francois.auradon＠worldnet.att.net

>> Also it was connected to an Apple IIe via a super serial port on the GS and >> an I/O controller on the IIe side. Is that some sort of "Networking"? There >> was no disk drive attached to the IIe. > >Either someone's idea of a joke or thrift shop ignorance. Well actaully the guy pointed to the IIe when I asked about the keyboard. They probably thought the the IIe WAS the keyboard! BTW what kind of problems can I expect with the ROM 01 (wich is the one I have)? ------------------------------------------------------------- Francois Visit the Sanctuary at: http://home.att.net/~francois.auradon

28 years, 1 month

Getting bent (ON topic if not thread)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<And in my experience, IC's are not that easy to damage by overheating. <I've soldered and desoldered hundreds of chips and never once overheated <one. Yes I do use a temperature controlled iron, etc. FYI in the old days when people would salvage chips of old unmarked cards a popular way to remove them was a propane torch and pliers! Obviously the board would get toasted but you could get the chips off fairly clean and fast. Though once I seriously over did it on the heat. The result is a old 7400 that is bent some in the middle...it still worked! I also made copper heads with the right shape for round, 16pin and even 40pin footprints that I would use a ungar element to heat and desolder chips cleanly from the board. I've also lifted chips by passing the board through the wave solder machine that put them down to start with. No majik, just carefull application of heat. The trick is heating all of the pins or finding a way that doesn't require all of them to be heated at once. Allison

28 years, 1 month

Hitachi 2.8" (was Re: Preserving old floppies, fixed disks...)

by adavie＠mad.scientist.com

I have some disks from an unreleased drive for the Radofin Aquarius II computer - but, unfortunately, I have no drive. "Hitachi 2.8 inch drive" is mentioned in the leaflet I have - can anyone shed any light on this drive, and the possibility of obtaining something which might read the disks? You can see the disks and drive @ http://www.comcen.com.au/~adavie/weird/aquarius/aqdisk.jpg http://www.comcen.com.au/~adavie/weird/aquarius/floppy.jpg A

28 years, 1 month

HD jumper settings

by rcini＠email.msn.com

Hello, all: Does anyone have the jumper settings for a Maxtor XT4380S hard drive? This thing is part of a Sun-clone "shoebox." The Maxtor Web site only has information on the drive's geometry and not the jumpers. I can't seem to get the SCSI address to show anything other than 4. TIA! Rich Cini/WUGNET <nospam_rcini(a)msn.com> (remove nospam_ to use) ClubWin! Charter Member (6) MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking ============================================

28 years, 1 month

Arrrgh! Micro$h*t again....

by adavie＠mad.scientist.com

I'd like to see less Microsoft bashing in my inbox; I'm on this list for the discussion of classic computers, NOT the benefits of Linux vs Windows, NOR the arguments about HTML. If the FAQ/guidelines for the mailing list say NO HTML, thats all there need be said... "read the FAQ". Please, lets cut down the traffic on these subjects and get back to the things we all enjoy discussing!!! A

28 years, 1 month

Arrrgh! Micro$h*t again....

by kyrrin＠jps.net

First, Tim Shoppa noted... >contains a plaintext version of the message AND the HTML-ified version, >which is what your plaintext email reader is seeing while Eudora and >Netscape can pick out the plaintext version. Then Kip Crosby added... >That's it. MIME-enabled clients read the MIME part; MSIE4 reads the HTML >part; MS-Outlook and Outlook Express I _think_ offer the choice between the >two. Microsoft no longer considers flat-ASCII mail to be an important >fraction of the traffic. <grrrrrr!> The more I hear about Billy-boy, and the more I see of his company's "products" and arrogant attitudes, the less I like either one! Is there no amount of bandwidth waste or code-bloat that Micro$quat won't stoop to?! I knew there was a reason I'd started to get into Unix boxes. Thanks, guys! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin(a)jps.net) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..."

28 years, 1 month

What's with the raw HTML?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<> What HTML utility works on my pro350 under venix. <> < <Lynx? Venix does not have IP suite only uucp. A version is not installed nor have I found one. It would however have to fit on the 10mb disk. <> Same question for my PDP-11s running RT-11? <> Or my ISP shell account (choice of ELM, PINE or MAIL)? < <Lynx? (which of course can be set up as a viewer for text/html mime types <pine) Keep in mind that the access in that mode is terminal(not a PC) so graphics is out. <> Then there is the matter of my laptop (EPSON PX-8 running CP/M-80)? < <You do a lot of mail reading from this machine then? I can list a bunch <machines that don't have any tools or utilities that handle HTML too, but <don't use them for reading mail. I do if I need portability (on the road). I have a scripted modem tool that interacts with ISPs shell and mail to download mail and send mail. storage is critical (120k ramdisk!) so bloat is problematic. <> How about my VS2000 tunning ultrix-4.2 off a 71meg disk? <> Then there is the matter of my vaxen running VMS-5.5? < <Pine/lynx again.I think one of your problems is that you obviously read y <mail on far too many different machines. :) How do you keep track of whe <things are? Your avoiding the question. If I were limited any of those I'd need tools specific to them. As there are many people that do not or cannot afford the latest and greatest it's not a moot point. In reality my 486dx2/50 with 8meg of ram is the primary mailreader. However I'm not about to drag up eudora or nyetscrape to read mail as it's too slow for simple plain text. Of course if you sincerely believe that using a 486 is stupid I'll gladly accept a P100 donation. Allison

28 years, 1 month

Arrrgh! Micro$h*t again....

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Sorry for any whitespace, folks... When was this interview taken? >advocated "Top 40" bloatware from day one. No one should be surprised--I >mean, Microshaft has always intended it's products to be "toasterware," as >easy as plugging toast into a toaster--that is, if you want to write a >letter to Aunt Minny or play Solitaire from 9am to 5pm every day. I don't quite see what you mean.. I have concluded a while ago that he isn't quite sane. I mean, in "Triumph of the Nerds", they said he gets up every day afraid of being taken over... >rethink his crapware strategy. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that there >is a dark corner in a sub-basement somewhere in Redmond where a small team >of hackers are already working on a potential Microsoft Linux distribution, >just in case. I'm taking bets on Netscape doing the same thing--a complete I'll bet Win95 is compiled on Linux! But AFAIK, Gates's BASIC interpreter for the altair required a RAM add-on pack! Truly bloatware >from day one. Why Gates decided to flip the switches on the front panel several thousand extra times mystifies me. Maybe that's why you're all getting Altairs with worn out switches;) >-- >David Wollmann | >dwollmann(a)ibmhelp.com | Support for legacy IBM products. >DST ibmhelp.com Technical Support | Data, document and file conversion for >IBM http://www.ibmhelp.com/ | legacy file and media formats. > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 1 month

Robots

by aaron＠wfi-inc.com

Just in case someone has missed their advertising blitz, the Discovery Channel is showing a special called Robots Rising tonight at 9pm ET. From the little preview on the Discovery web site (what I can see of it with lynx) it looks like there should be a lot of shots of classic machines in action.... Aaron

28 years, 1 month

Where's the FAQ?

by dastar＠wco.com

Sorry, I don't keep e-mail addresses handy. > Sorry , I missed the previous parts to this thread , but I do have a > copy of the 3-part FAQ. Where should I forward it ? Could the one who was asking please e-mail Larry Walker at: lwalkerN0spaM(a)interlog.com ...removing the anti-spam features of his e-mail address of course. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!

28 years, 1 month

What's with the raw HTML?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<But seriously, is it so hard to patch Linux mail for HTML? <>There is the little matter of some several million (or more) <>unix(linux, and related cuzins) systems out there where HTML is <>far from a standard. First off Standard in this case refers to established and present on every system. My reference to cusins referes to the non-public source unixes like Venix and also the non-unix, non-DOS, non-NT OSs that exist. Since I'll never run nyetscrape on the z80, 8088 or PDP-11. Sure it's possible (trivial) to write your own handler to strip the excess baggage, but I personally feel its rude to impose it on the reader. ALlison

28 years, 1 month

Getting bent (ON topic if not thread)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<That said, it is certainly very possible to damage individual chips and/o <subassemblies with static electricity, and precautions such as anti-stati <bags, tubes, and workplaces make perfect economic sense to the <manufacturers, distributors, and professional installers of this <equipment. In other words, not the entire industry is a scam - they're <quite satisfied that ordinary affordable measures and work practices <are important. The basic wrist strap safety ground is usually adaquate. More often some basic care is all that is needed to insure nothing bad happens. However, The last day or so in eastern MA, I've been able to draw sparks over 0.25" with ease and there is no question that can be damaging. Allison

28 years, 1 month

What's with the raw HTML?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<> Umm, HTML is pretty much a standard no matter what platform you are on <> is most certainly not platform dependent. The standard for 1.1 is spec <> in RFC 2068 and for 1.0 in RFC 1945. If you mean that there are not st <> tools to read html'ized mail under unix/linux, I say Netscape is availa <> for almost any linux and most other unices running on sparc/intel/alph <> hardware. I don't argue that HTML rich text is fine for mailing lists <> however if you are going to argue that it is not you should formulate <> proper argument. OK, What HTML utility works on my pro350 under venix. Same question for my PDP-11s running RT-11? Or my ISP shell account (choice of ELM, PINE or MAIL)? Then there is the matter of my laptop (EPSON PX-8 running CP/M-80)? How about my VS2000 tunning ultrix-4.2 off a 71meg disk? Then there is the matter of my vaxen running VMS-5.5? The assumption of HTML standard, is modern CPU, lot's of ram, fast modem big disk and bandwidth to waste when the message doesn't warrent any of the above. This is particulary true when in some cases the message is repeated twice in clear text and HTML. Myself I find ti analogous of a ham firing up a full kilowatt to talk to the guy across the street, excessive and burdening to others. Both RFCs are not retro specification and do not make HTML required. They do make clear what HTML is and hwo to deal with it. Allison

28 years, 1 month

Getting bent (ON topic if not thread)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Actually, I find most precautions such as anti-static and so forth to <be baloney. I must have done every illegal thing in the book, and the <only things I haven't gotten away with was plugging chips in Well it's really pay me now or later. While at DEC we (participated) did and ESD study and we found even TTL was susceptable. It accounted for a very significant number of boards that shipped good and failed on install or very shortly afterwards. ESD can damage devices without immediately failing them. It contributed to many burned in and tested at the facory only to fail in the field boards and made for a high incidence of failures in chips associted with interconnects (edge connectors and plugs/sockets). When a program of ESD grounding was instituted the failures drom 20% over a year and would continue to drop for several years and habits were broken. The problem is difference in charge so try to maintain contact to keep the static charges equalized/dissipated especially on the cold dry days were have up north here. Also handling edge connectors is long term not good. Oils and salts from the hands are not good even for gold plated connectors. Allison

28 years, 1 month

Aiwa CD players

by kyrrin＠jps.net

First, Uncle Roger declared... >I have [music] CD's going back to the mid-80's. They all work fine. >(P.S., never buy an Aiwa CD player.) Max responded with... >Why do you say this? I found an AIWA all-in-one thing (radio,tape, >phono,cd) in the trash a few years ago, and it has worked fine. Does >it damage CDs or something? I think I know what Roger may be referring to, Max. About a year and something ago, I bought my mate an Aiwa 3-disc CD player/changer that also sported a SCSI port for the benefit of using data CDs. The thing was new, still in the box. After about a month, it died. I sent it off to Aiwa, they repaired it under warranty. It came back, lasted for about another year, then the mechanicals in the transport died. Permanently. Needless to say, I'm not impressed with Aiwa's later stuff (after 1993 or so). -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin(a)jps.net) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..."

28 years, 1 month

I have located Heaven... and it's inside ATS.

by DSEAGRAV＠toad.xkl.com

I am right now sitting in a room containing a few interesting parts... There's an 11/70 here, and 11/44, and 11/83. And that's not all. Lining the back wall are VAX 7650, 8530, 11/785... There's other DEC stuff around... There's apparently a RSX/11M distrib RL02 pack around, but it's been lost in a sea of XXDP+ packs... Numbersome MicroVAXen... I am talking to you right now from the 785! Truly impressive! The room also holds an AlphaServer 7100, and a lot of Windoze boxen. This is ATS's lab, where they test things! Already scored a lot of manuals, PDP-11, VAX, and PDP-8 stuff. Maybe I can talk them out of this 785, or maybe a DELUA or something... :) See ya later, I'm gonna see what else I can find! PS: NONE of this is trash! They actually USE all this stuff to test equipment! -------

28 years, 1 month

Preserving old floppies, fixed disks...

by dastar＠wco.com

On Sat, 14 Mar 1998, Bill Yakowenko wrote: > As near as I can tell, the classiccmp web site has been down for > months now. I've tried probably fifty times since I-don't-know-when, > but haven't got it to come up. Do you have the inside scoop on that? > Without that, referring people to the FAQ isn't going to help much. Oh, sorry. That does tend to be a big problem. And yes, that web site has been flaky as hell for months now. I believe there is a mirror site somewhere that carries the FAQ. Can someone help Bill out? Anyone have a copy of the FAQ lying around? Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!

28 years, 1 month

What sort of Model 4 CPU board is this?

by ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk

A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1071 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980313/97ecd8ff/at…

28 years, 1 month

TRS80 Model 4P gate array help

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Mar 13, 16:54, Keith Whitehead wrote: > Ok...here's the problem > The machine come up with garbage on the screen.It would also seem that the > video is inverted, I can see the retrace lines etc, so the horizontal > blanking is not working either by the looks of it. > > What I suspect is wrong is that either U42 (the 6845 labeled in my machine > as a motorola SC80757P) or U102 (the 4.3 video support chip) is faulty (or > both?). The 6845 isn't much more than a programmable video timing generator. Since you have *some* video, it's unlikely to be at fault. It could be a memory-addressing problem, or a bad connection, or... My first suggestion would be to *gently* prise each socketed chip from it's socket, and reseat them all. This helps clean any oxidation off the pins at the point of contact. Used to be a favourite problem with Apple ]['s, but it's a widely-applicable technique. I don't wish to teach my granny to suck eggs, but I'd also suggest you take care that *all* the pins go back in the socket when you reseat anything; it's not hard to bend a pin underneath sometimes. For many years I was a component-level repair technician for an education authority, and I once had someone bring me a malfunctioning machine which had that problem. When I pointed it out, the response was "but NEARLY all the pins are in, and it doesn't work AT ALL". -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

28 years, 1 month

Getting bent (ON topic if not thread)

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 98-03-13 21:22:35 EST, you write: << <And in my experience, IC's are not that easy to damage by overheating. <I've soldered and desoldered hundreds of chips and never once overheated <one. Yes I do use a temperature controlled iron, etc. >> with all this talk of soldering and desoldering, is it possible for a layman to do this with just a regular low wattage soldering iron? any tips from the pros? david

28 years, 1 month

7474 Chip Replacement QUESTIONS

by yakowenk＠cs.unc.edu

] From: Wirehead Prime <wirehead(a)retrocomputing.com> ] ] In repairing the SWTPC 6800 MP-A CPU board, I've discovered I THINK that ] a 7474 which is used to generate NOT HALT to the CPU (and to halt it ] under certain circumstances) is keeping the CPU halted all the time even ] though the bus says there's no reason for it to be halted. ] ...deletia ] ] Thanks... ] ] Anthony Clifton - Wirehead > From: "Jack Peacock" <peacock(a)simconv.com> > > considering the low speed of a 6800, an LS (or even an HCT) > should work...but, are you sure it isn't the case of a fast > pulse on the D input when CLK is hit (on the falling edge if > memory is correct)? and you aren't seeing it (using a logic > probe or a triggered scope)? did you check the voltage in to D? > maybe it's in no mans land (i.e. around 2v). Maybe its the IC > driving the flip flop D input thats bad, or a fast pulse is > hitting the R* input > > Anyway, I'd take it out and put in a socket if you think its > most likely cause > Jack Peacock Do you have anything funky plugged into that box? Later SWTPC systems had disk controllers doing DMA, but I'm not sure about the 6800. Does it lock up all the time? If so, can you yank everything except the MP-A and an MP-C or MP-S in port 1, and see if it still happens? In that case, there should be nothing wanting to do DMA, so the HALT* line should be permanently high - no possibility of sneaky fast pulses on the HALT line that you might overlook. Then everything is simple: If HALT* is still high on the SS-50 and low on the output of that 7474, then that 7474 is definitely ill. If the problem goes away when you do this, then maybe the 7474 is okay and maybe you've got some board doing spurious HALTs. OTOH, to keep the CPU halted, you'd have to be getting one of those sneaky pulses on the HALT line in every clock cycle; just one here and there wouldn't keep the CPU totally halted. Just on that basis alone, I'd say it's almost certain that the 7474's flip-flopping days are over. As for 7474 vs. 74LS74, since the output of this is only driving the one CPU input, I expect it should be okay. I think the main concern would be whether or not the replacement chip can drive as many inputs as the chip it is replacing, and an LS output can certainly drive one standard input. (Experts are welcome to correct me here!) Cheers, Bill.

28 years, 1 month

Preserving old floppies, fixed disks...

by lfb107＠psu.edu

At 06:53 PM 3/14/98 -0800, Sam Ismail wrote: >On Sat, 14 Mar 1998, Max Eskin wrote: > >[In response to Uncle Roger's spontaneous anti-AIWA quip...] > >> Why do you say this? I found an AIWA all-in-one thing (radio,tape, >> phono,cd) in the trash a few years ago, and it has worked fine. Does >> it damage CDs or something? >> > >> >I have [music] CD's going back to the mid-80's. They all work fine. >> >(P.S., never buy an Aiwa CD player.) > >This is an example of the kind of message that should go to private >e-mail. Thanks. > >Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com >------------------------------------------------------------------------------- So is this. No, Thank YOU Les

28 years, 1 month

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