<Does anyone remember Basic5, for CP/M IIRC? It was a 5k Basic which
<took up about 8k. As for small languages, ETI published 'Simple' for
I do and I have about a truckload of different basics for 8080/z80.
The WC CP/M cdrom has at least that many and I haven't looked at all the
CPMUG and SIGM files.
amoung them:
LLL basic
Li Chen Wang TBX
TINY basic
TDL 5k basic
Zbasic
NS* basic
Ebasic
Cbasic
Sbasic
MITS8k
MS 8k basic in rom (netronics explorer).
MS BASCOM
MS extended disk basic
I'll bet this is not a definitive list either.
<the 8080 c.1977 which was a non-trivial self-contained interactive
<interpreter, in 256 bytes including space for your own UART drivers.
Simple yes, useful?
Allison
Doesn't help much, sorry. COmmon Business Oriented Language and you
say that the C is the only part that's good? What is COBOL like, anyway?
>>What's wrong with COBOL?
>
>The OBOL part.
>
>
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
"Max Eskin" <maxeskin(a)hotmail.com> wrote:
>A few years ago, I got a Practical Peripherals thing which was
>supposed to be a modem. The model number is PM2400SA. It is external.
>It dials out, but for some reason, does not connect when the carrier
>on the other end starts. Could someone tell me what this thing is?
I believe that's called a "non-functional modem". Try "AT&F" to see
if it's resettable to factory defaults.
- John
Jefferson Computer Museum <http://www.threedee.com/jcm>
Subject: Hardware for PDP
From: H G Duehring <duhring(a)meister.aball.de>
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 23:46:52 +0100
Organization: aball Internet Netzdienste GmbH, Hannover, Germany
Newsgroups: vmsnet.pdp-11
I give some hardware for free for UNIBUS and PDP 11/34, pick up by
yourself in Germany:
RL01/02 Drives ; differtent boards ; R;L01/02 Disks.
RX01/02 parts ; 8" Diskettes.
RX50 Drives ; RD 51 Drives ; LA50 Printers ; VR201 Screens.
Kai Kaltenbach <kaikal(a)MICROSOFT.com> wrote:
>Please give me an insight as to _your_ life's work so that I may call it a
>steaming pile of horseshit as well.
Is this the first time you've heard someone criticize Microsoft or its
products?
>You know Bruce, it's offensive unthinking tirades like yours that make me
>want to unsubscribe from this list and throw my classic computers in the
>dumpster just so I would no longer have to count myself among your company.
I'd be glad to pay shipping... Do you have a web page describing
what you're giving away? :-) Me? I find myself defending Bill at
every turn, and that has nothing to do with sending him/you thousands
of dollars a year.
- John
Jefferson Computer Museum <http://www.threedee.com/jcm>
MS bashing in a MODERN context is off-topic, yes, but saying how
BASIC for the Altair was bloated certainly is the best of both worlds
IMHO. But to go even further back, was there any IBM-bashing before
the 80's?
>I'd like to see less Microsoft bashing in my inbox; I'm on this list
for
>the discussion of classic computers, NOT the benefits of Linux vs
Windows,
>NOR the arguments about HTML. If the FAQ/guidelines for the mailing
list
>say NO HTML, thats all there need be said... "read the FAQ". Please,
lets
>cut down the traffic on these subjects and get back to the things we
all
>enjoy discussing!!!
>A
>
>
______________________________________________________
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Have anybody some Sord M5 related files ? ( manuals etc.). I have all
this in paper version and electronic kind of this is practical.
I need Sord m5 FD drive files- floppy disk with system utilities and
docs about this all. Donor of this things will be first where I send
SW emulator of this comp. for PC.
Thank you ...
--
S pozdravem
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jiri Cechmeister - TOPCAD, Electronic and Software Development
Demlova 4, 58601 JIHLAVA, CZ, phone /fax : +420 66 31051
http://www.topcad.anet.cz , e-mail: cechy(a)jitel.cz
----------------------------------------------------------------------
At 11:50 PM 3/16/98 -0600, you wrote:
>For those in Silicon Valley who haven't been to the new Fry's in
>Sunnyvale: go check out CHAC's Apple 1 on display. Unlike the gaudy Mayan
>and Aztec themes of some other recent Fry's, this one has sort of an art
>deco theme with large posters of HP35s, Xerox Altos, and other machines
>worthy of worship.
Nah, don't need to. Had it in my living room for a night a couple of years
ago. 8^)
(Well, actually, it was all packaged for transport and I didn't dare open
it up, so maybe I will...)
--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-
Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/
>"We are a lot closer to being able to create an artificial human than we
>are to being able to comprehend the consequences of creating an
>artificial human."
>
>I realise that this is not *directly* about +10 year old computer systems,
>but it does directly relate to the them and their role in the history of
>this field (which is what I originally asked the list about). Does anyone
>on the list want to take it outside to a temporary list to discuss the
>moral/ethical/probability issues of artificial life? Let me know by
>email and I'll set one up.
If you choose to set one up, this is what my thesis is all about - the
moral status of such AI systems should they ever be created. :)
Adam.
At 06:23 PM 3/15/98 -0500, you wrote:
>need for a company to have a fancy letterhead, nor a mass mailer to have
>colored brochures, nor ladies to have flowered and/or scented stationery,
>yet we do have all these things, and more. Consider how boring text-only,
Note that for most of these, there is no difference to the recipient. It
doesn't take any longer to open a color brochure than one in black and
white, logos don't take up any more space than the text, etc. In terms of
e-mail, it's completely different. Those logos do take up space, color
stuff does take longer to download. (And btw, there are a lot of people
who are very allergic to the scented ads included with Macy's bills, and
even a fair number of us who just get nauseated.)
>not trivial point. Nevertheless, technology marches on, and as cable modems
>(or whatever) become the norm rather than the exception, "waste" of
Really? As of last fall, 80% of americans accessed the net at 14.4Kbps or
less. (According to a speaker at the Bay Area Internet Users Group.) Add
in the rest of the world and that goes way down. Damn yanks, always
thinking nobody else matters!
>public at large. If my wife wants to embed scanned newspaper clippings or a
>kid's picture in an email to her cousin across country, who am I (or anyone)
>to object?
That's a different matter. If I send an e-mail to a potential client
touting my services, that's one thing. To send a message selling used golf
balls to every e-mail address I can find, that's spam.
--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-
Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/
At 03:20 PM 3/15/98 +0000, you wrote:
>All too often, formatting, multiple fonts, embedded pictures, colour, etc
>are used as a replacement for content. I've got plenty of monospaced
>documents with ascii-art diagrams that provide useful information, and an
>equal number of nicely formatted documents with pictures that contain no
>information at all.
Substitute "web pages" for "documents" and it would be just as true.
If you can't communicate your meaning with plain text, you better go back
and rethink what you're trying to say. Mind you, I don't expect everyone
to be a Robert Frost or William Shakespeare, but you should be able to
convey an idea in your native tongue.
Email is meant for communicating.
Me, I use Eudora. It dumps that sort of thing into a disk file in my
download directory; periodically I go and clean it up.
Mind you, I love the web, I think it's the best thing since sliced bread.
It's simple, powerful, and really lets you do a lot without a lot of
resources. (I've developed web pages on my portfolio, and view them
regularly under DOS with Arachne.) But it's not intended for e-mail.
Putting HTML in an e-mail message is like sending a video tape of yourself
instead of a letter. It works, some people might prefer it, even need it,
but for most people, what you've got to say isn't worth setting up a VCR/TV
and sitting around to listen to you.
If you really need e-mail in color with different size/font text, get
yourself a subscription to penthouse. You'll be much happier in the long run.
--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-
Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/
At 08:46 AM 3/14/98 -0800, you wrote:
>> PS: NONE of this is trash! They actually USE all this stuff to test
>> equipment!
>
>I am always amazed when you express amazement that computers that aren't
>brand new are being used to do useful stuff :-). Ten, twenty, and
>thirty-year old computers are used to run everything from gas chromotagraphy
>units to MRI's, subway systems, factories, and cyclotrons, and some of us
>make at least a part of our living ensuring that they continue to do the job.
I'm currently working with Long's Drugs, a chain of pharmacies (up to 352
this week!) in the western US. About 15 years ago or so, they put an
HP3000 in each store to manage the pharmacy systems. They're still there.
Most of the stores are micro3000's (mid 80's?) but there are still some
series 42 and 40 machines out there. (I used to have a list of what was at
each store somehwere.)
--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-
Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/
At 23:50 3/16/98 -0600, you wrote:
>For those in Silicon Valley who haven't been to the new Fry's in
>Sunnyvale: go check out CHAC's Apple 1 on display....
It's a lot prettier in that armorglass pyramid in the Books section than it
was in a brown cardboard box in my bedroom closet ;-)
__________________________________________
Kip Crosby engine(a)chac.org
http://www.chac.org/index.html
Computer History Association of California
Hi all,
If anyone's interested, I put a great 3/50 up on Ebay today. I ran out of
room for it (19" mono monitor). No disk, since I was using it as an X
terminal, 12M ram upgrade,flat-top (not the dimple monitor-mount style).
If you want, I'll give you a dimple top model with bad video in the
package. I forgot to get the item number and all that, but there can't be
too many 3/50's up for auction right now, eh?
Regards,
Aaron
<Anybody got info on a Nat. Semi. 57109 "Number Oriented Processor"?
<I've got one on a "calculator interface" board, that I suspect was
<a primitive math coprocessor. I'd love to get specs on it, and/or
It was a calculator chip I believed based on the 4bit cop series. It's
been a long time. Anyhow the board used a calculator chip despite it's
slowness to avoid higher math (to 8 digits) in software. It was however
not a coprocessor, it is a limited slave at best.
<replacement chips in case this one dies.
You might get lucky...
Allison
What's wrong with COBOL?
>
>Well, according to the Jargon File (aka The Hacker's Dictionary), IBM
>minis and mainframes were not liked by hackers (who prefered DEC, etc),
>not only because they were generally programmed in things like Cobol,
but
>also because technical info was next-to-impossible to obtain. It was
>difficult to do neat things with them.
>
>I don't know if that counts as IBM bashing or not.
>
>-tony
>
>
______________________________________________________
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----Original Message-----
From: Allison J Parent <allisonp(a)world.std.com>
>I would say that 8kbasic was the first decent software product from MS
>though it was soon to change in the early 80s.
>
>FYI the Extended BASIC interpreter for CP/M-80 and the BASCOM Compiler
>for CP/M-80 were excellent products. Neither were bloatware by any
>standard.
Quite right. Early MS products were extremely good quality software,
particularly compared to their competitors at the time. Tight, largely
bug-free and with well thought-out interfaces (exclude Multiplan, but
highlight MS Decathlon). Pity they couldn't (or wouldn't) keep up the good
work. Does the demise of quality stem from the departure of Paul Allen? I
don't know when he left MS.
David
"I am a Bear of Very Little Brain, and long words Bother me."
A. A. Milne Winnie-the-Pooh, Ch. 4
Given that a fair number of us are probably reading this on dumb
terminals, HTML and MIME are as out-of-place as binaries.
It strikes me that the mail/HTML thing indicates something about
attitudes, and I'm genuinely surprised that anyone on this list
would push for HTML in e-mail. The wintel PC world thrives on
style over substance; glitz rather than content. It sells to the
mass market that doesn't know any better and never will. If you
have nothing to say, you better say it loudly or no-one will listen.
The spirit of so many of these old machines was the delicate balance
between expressiveness and resource usage. As admirers of that,
shouldn't we, of all people, prefer plain text whenever it suffices?
Put only plain text in my mailbox, please. I'll be quite happy to
visit your pictures and HTML on the web. (URL's _are_ plain text!)
Bill.
Ive got an aftermarket mac external 800k drive if anyone wants it. it wont
read a disk even after cleaning. its about the same size but a bit heavier
than the 400k mac drive. otherwise it's gonna get round filed.
david
I've just been offered a "1 foot by 2 foot" manual schematic and technical
repair manual set for the Superbrain computer. The guy imported it from
Intertcech, he said. On its way to me now, I'm just letting people on the
list know of its availability.
Cheers
A
On Sun, 15 Mar 1998 20:56:58 -0500 (EST), J. Maynard Gelinas <jmg(a)iac.net>
wrote:
{big snip about b st(0,4,0)}
I did try setting the tape to both ID=4 and ID=6, both with the same
results. And, no, when I created the install tape, I did not use the "osync"
parameter. More to come...
Rich Cini/WUGNET
<nospam_rcini(a)msn.com> (remove nospam_ to use)
ClubWin! Charter Member (6)
MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking
============================================
>> > Oh, CDC...Computer Dinosaur Corporation...
>>
>> And one I coined after I'd been given the price for some trivial spare
>> part (a light bulb, I think) for a PDP11..
>>
>> DEC - Darn Expensive Components :-)
>
>And most of the Unibus PDP-11's delivered in the 70's and early 80's had
>cabinet trim and/or front panel color scheme as "Purple/Magenta", leading
>to:
>
>PDP=Purple Data Processor
IBM=Intern-run Brainless Corporation (But not any more!)
<I still want a Cyber, however (any other 180s being decommissioned
<lately?).
Personally I'd love to find a Cincinati Millicron CM2000, 2100 or 2200.
I haven't seen one in about 25 years.
Allison
Thanks Don/David. Maxtor must have posted those settings after I looked
about 2 months ago. All that they had at the time was the geometry
information.
Rich Cini/WUGNET
<nospam_rcini(a)msn.com> (remove nospam_ to use)
ClubWin! Charter Member (6)
MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking
============================================
