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101090 discussions

Hitachi 2.8" (was Preserving old floppies, fixed disks...)

by lisard＠zetnet.co.uk

On 1998-03-15 classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu said to lisard(a)zetnet.co.uk :However, there are 2 things that spring to mind. Firstly Hitachi :were associated with the Compact Floppy disks which are normally :called 3" disks. I've just measured one and : :It's a black plastic case measuring 3+1/8" * 3+7/8" * 3/16" :I've attempted to measure the actual disk through holes in the case, :and it meassures 2.8" in diameter, or thereabouts those'll be the things amstrad used ad nauseam, yep? you can post them for special concessionary cassette rates in japan, we're told - it kept them alive a little while longer than they should have stayed... ;> :Secondly, I've heard of 2.75" disk drives. Some of them were :_sequential_ access - there was no separate head possitioner, it :was driven by the spindle motor. You had to start at the outside of :the disk and read all the data up to the point that you wanted. quick disks. msx used them, as did a few early samplers (roland s10, akai s612(?), etc) and a few other bits. -- Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her...

28 years, 1 month

Question for the Faq - If there is one.

by peacock＠simconv.com

How about initial procedures when you get some new treasure recently saved from the greedy jaws of the salvagers. Things like: blow out the dirt, check for burnt/obviously damaged components, frayed or pinched cables, reseat socketed parts and clean off any corrosion or "purple plague" on the IC pins, power supply outputs, loose screws dropped in the power supply or motherboard. And most important of all....make copies of the schematics and boot disks. Another idea for the FAQ: if it isn't restorable, at least pull all the socketed ICs (and put them in static foam) so someone else might be able to restore one. I keep a big box of old parts from boards I have tossed. Jack Peacock

28 years, 1 month

System names

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Be careful not jam the (diskette) magazines ;) > >[Kamikaze Pilot] > >Isn't that what's referred to as Shotgun Debugging? >------- > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 1 month

Robots again

by dwollmann＠ibmhelp.com

At 04:34 AM 3/16/98 -0600, you wrote: >Exactly. All of the useful ideas from AI that became mainstream are no >longer considered AI. Today, OCR, speach recognition, machine >translation, and predictive analysis are off-the-shell apps or embedded in >products like Microsoft Word to help catch your spelling and grammar >errors. What was once the stuff of science fiction epics is now mundane? > >There are still interesting problems, though. Machines can kick your >chess-playing butt, but you won't find one nearly coordinated enough to >hit a baseball and run around a few bases. IMHO, AI researchers have >overestimated the brainstuff and underestimated the sensor and actuator >stuff. Here's my theory of how you learn to speak, for example: > I have always thought that digital computers would never allow us to achieve the ultimate goal of replicting a learning organism. Aren't we just simple conceptual pattern recognition machines? It seems like an analog computer, capable of integration of raw percepts and conceptualization at high speeds, could actually learn and become better and faster than man at thinking and working. If a computer could search a text file for a pattern using the same method as humans, i.e. looking for a shape as the first indicator of a match, rather than a discreet chacter pattern, it would be able to process text much faster than a digital machine. I think it was Ayn Rand's "Objectivist Epistemology" that got me thinking along these lines. > >-- Doug > > -- David Wollmann | dwollmann(a)ibmhelp.com | Support for legacy IBM products. DST ibmhelp.com Technical Support | Data, document and file conversion for IBM http://www.ibmhelp.com/ | legacy file and media formats.

28 years, 1 month

Preserving software

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

If you are referring to the Computer museum on Boston Harbor, it's fine. I have no idea what they would do with anything anyone might give them, though. They don't have much space... > >Spring cleaning is approaching, and the storage bins are overflowing. I >have a lot of old PC applications, and I'd like to get rid of them, but >would prefer to see them preserved. Is the Boston museum still in >operation, and if so are they interested in preserving old PC apps? > >I'm hoping that I can find my Microport Unix while I'm at it--I want to >build one of my old ATs and install it, just for fun. > >-- >David Wollmann | >dwollmann(a)ibmhelp.com | Support for legacy IBM products. >DST ibmhelp.com Technical Support | Data, document and file conversion for >IBM http://www.ibmhelp.com/ | legacy file and media formats. > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 1 month

Arrrgh! Micro$h*t again....

by lisard＠zetnet.co.uk

On 1998-03-15 classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu said to lisard(a)zetnet.co.uk :FYI the Extended BASIC interpreter for CP/M-80 and the BASCOM :Compiler for CP/M-80 were excellent products. Neither were :bloatware by any standard. you know, we've heard it mooted that bill gates himself is not a bad programmer. we've also heard that the last thing he worked on in person was the software for the kyocera laptops of the mid 80s. perhaps this is the problem... we have a suspicion that bill gates uses macs - hence the cash investment ;> -- Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her...

28 years, 1 month

Strange board

by pjoules＠enterprise.net

I have a board which came in a job lot from a bankruptcy sale about 10 years ago. I wonder if anyone can identify it. The only writing on it says 'SYKES' and '9000 MP CONTROLLER'. The most prominent chip is marked MCS6502. It has rows of small chips indexed along the edge of the board A..Y down one side and 1..9 along the short edge. It is about 6" X 10" and has a 12 contact edge connector and two sockets, one of 40 and one of 50 pins either side of the edge connector. There are 3 chips which are (obviously?) memory as they are labelled D1/FC00, F1/FA00 and K1/FE00. There is also a 16MHz crystal oscillator. Any ideas what it might be? Regards Pete

28 years, 1 month

Arrrgh! Micro$h*t again....

by adavie＠mad.scientist.com

I quote the FAQ 2.8 Can I type obscenities about Microsoft in ALL CAPS!?! (Or, in general, be unreasonable with reagard to advocacy posts?) Check your anti-MS baggage at the door, please. For that matter, drop any posts that serve only to perpetuate the holy wars. Please please guys and gals; Check your anti-MS baggage at the door. Talk Classic computers.... classic computers.... classic computers. Furthermore, classic computers... classic computers... get the idea? A

28 years, 1 month

Preserving old floppies, fixed disks...

by lisard＠zetnet.co.uk

On 1998-03-15 classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu said to lisard(a)zetnet.co.uk :Can someone help Bill out? Anyone have a copy of the FAQ lying :around? can you make that two copies? we could use one. -- Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her...

28 years, 1 month

Robots again

by lisard＠zetnet.co.uk

On 1998-03-16 classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu said to lisard(a)zetnet.co.uk :Perhaps :incredibly, Turing _did_ believe that there was something special :about the brain (in particular he could/would not rule out ESP) and :so I don't think he would ever have claimed that a Turing Machine :could do anything that a human brain could. The TM was designed to :solve a specific problem in mathematical theory, rather than as a :theoretical ultimate brain. no, the brain/intelligence thing came with the "turing *test*" which is the idea that you could converse with a computer on one terminal, a human on another, and not be able to reliably identify which was which. (turing was a complex, fascinating, and very innocent human, and he was treated despicably by the british government after the second world war.) :But now you've got me trying to think of something that an :analog(ue) computer can do that a digital one can't. fuzzy logic...? ;> -- Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her...

28 years, 1 month

Arrrgh! Micro$h*t again....

by lisard＠zetnet.co.uk

On 1998-03-16 classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu said to lisard(a)zetnet.co.uk :You know Bruce, it's offensive unthinking tirades like yours that :make me want to unsubscribe from this list and throw my classic :computers in the dumpster just so I would no longer have to count :myself among your company. :Please give me an insight as to _your_ life's work so that I may :call it a steaming pile of horseshit as well. hey, kai, calm down, everyone has to start somewhere... ;> seriously, we very much doubt that everyone in microsoft is set upon filling the world with shite software that slows everything to a dawdle and destroys competition. however, what peeves us is (a) that microsoft *have* eliminated competition to a large extent - it's just not healthy! especially when mr gates has to resort to injecting cash into his most innovative competitor to keep them in that position (hell, alive!) - and (b) that microsoft produce software with the emphasis perpetually on getting people into computers, widening the accessibility of machines, but not really improving in the way that people who need to use and develop with computers for a living require. microsoft, even more than apple these days, produces software "for the rest of us" (inasmuch as the rest of 'em don't try anything ambitious) but microsoft products don't include the necessary hooks and extensibility whereby an expert can get through the easy-features and do things properly with the minimum of interruption. if you can carry that message back to the powers that be, we'd all be very much happier out here. we'd still be worried about the future, because of the lack of competition, but at least it might not be a future of unmitigated mediocrity. -- Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her...

28 years, 1 month

What's with the raw HTML?

by pjoules＠coleg-powys.ac.uk

From: Uncle Roger <sinasohn(a)ricochet.net> >If you can't communicate your meaning with plain text, you better go back >and rethink what you're trying to say. Mind you, I don't expect everyone >to be a Robert Frost or William Shakespeare, but you should be able to >convey an idea in your native tongue. > Although English would be preferred despite the fact that it is not the native tongue worldwide ;-) Regards Pete

28 years, 1 month

Arrrgh! Micro$h*t again....

by dwollmann＠ibmhelp.com

At 06:01 PM 3/16/98 -0500, you wrote: [snip] >> Is it this dearth of technical information that accounts for the lack of >> interest in collecting old IBM? > >Yes. That and the general unhackability of the minis. And that most people >hate them. And that most universities had DECs and such in their CS >departments. And the weird parts. > >But wait... > [snip] > >I think also that many people really think that the old IBMs are junk. >They really are not. Amen. You just need manuals, lots and lots of them. >I just purchased (finally found, really) a copy of >*IBM's System/360 and Early 370 Computers*, and a casual quick read >revealed that the S/360 really were very advanced machines, many of >inovations are commonplace today. Other systems, like some of the minis, >have bizarre architectures that, once inside, are fascinating. A lack of >decent development tools, however, is a real crutch. C for the S/3x line >(even Small-C) would be great. I think a lot of people fail to consider that the IBM midrange and mainframes were designed to run businesses without down time--the philosophy of the engineers has always been to keep those pesky hackers out of the system. By hackers, I mean real programmers. Of course the 360 was supposed to be an "all around machine," but from what I've seen, business rules at IBM. >Anyway, send me your old IBMs, size it not a problem (while I gaze at the >photo of the multiprocessing S/370 installation). I would if I could afford the freight. ;) I'd still like to get a 5360 to run Displaywrite/36 folder extractions on, but I have to get the 'Vette out of the garage and install air conditioning in the there before I can even think about it. > >William Donzelli >william(a)ans.net > > > -- David Wollmann dwollmann(a)ibmhelp.com

28 years, 1 month

History of OSs?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Does anyone know of a more-or-less comprehensive history of Operating <Systems online? I'd like to come up to speed on the OSs that are being Unknown try alta vista. <I'd be very interested to see a geneology tree--I've noticed some Unix <genes in DOS (few) and I'm told it was based in part on things CP/M was <doing at the time. The dos geneology is roughly... DEC PDP-8 OS/8 (pip, stat, dir)--> RT-11/RSTS/RSX11--> CPM-80--> CPM86--> dos-1.0--> The VAX OS line up VMS is off the RSX11 part fo the PDP-11 tree. DOS was a translation of 8080 CPM-80 to 8086 by seattle computer. Unix has been an influence but largely not that great. UNIX has it's own tree and there are to say the least many flavors some of which even resemble each other. Allison

28 years, 1 month

NS 57109?

by yakowenk＠cs.unc.edu

Anybody got info on a Nat. Semi. 57109 "Number Oriented Processor"? I've got one on a "calculator interface" board, that I suspect was a primitive math coprocessor. I'd love to get specs on it, and/or replacement chips in case this one dies. advTHANKSance, Bill.

28 years, 1 month

tandata td-1600

by adavie＠mad.scientist.com

I've just received notice of a system.... "have you heard of a Tandata Td-1600? It was one of those Telecom computers I believe. It has a Z1 chip in it (whatever that may be) which I know is not a Z-80 but may be of interest to you just the same. It has a PS and all the right lights seem to be working. RF and RGB monitor outputs." I have no idea what this thing is. Have any of the readers of this list any more information? Cheers A

28 years, 1 month

Preserving software

by dwollmann＠ibmhelp.com

Spring cleaning is approaching, and the storage bins are overflowing. I have a lot of old PC applications, and I'd like to get rid of them, but would prefer to see them preserved. Is the Boston museum still in operation, and if so are they interested in preserving old PC apps? I'm hoping that I can find my Microport Unix while I'm at it--I want to build one of my old ATs and install it, just for fun. -- David Wollmann | dwollmann(a)ibmhelp.com | Support for legacy IBM products. DST ibmhelp.com Technical Support | Data, document and file conversion for IBM http://www.ibmhelp.com/ | legacy file and media formats.

28 years, 1 month

System names

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

> >On 17 Mar 98 at 5:58, Daniel A. Seagraves wrote: > >> Besides, I name all my machines after >> Sailormoon characters. ------- What names are these (I'm not familiar w/sailor moon)? > >I name systems on my home network after ships from different >anime; Lovely Angel, White Base, Sol Bianca, etc. Guess it comes >from working around the stuff all day. Haven't settled on a name for >my PDP-11/34 yet. I find that if I ever want to address my system by name, I had better not say it anyway ;) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 1 month

INTEL PDS-100

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Marty wrote: <> <> I have an Intel PDS-100 Personal Development System but no manuals or <> information on this unit. It is from 1979-1982 I believe, and has two <> prom programming boards with it. The unit is the size of a slightly <> large pc, has a carrying handle with built in monitor, keyboard and <> two 5 1/4" half height floppy drives. It was introduced later in the 1983-85 time frame. 1979 would have been the more expensive and heavy MDS-2xx series. I believe the native OS was ISIS though it's possible that IRMX was also available and CPM as well from third parties. Allison

28 years, 1 month

System names

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<I name systems on my home network after ships from different <anime; Lovely Angel, White Base, Sol Bianca, etc. Guess it comes I name mine after light aircraft. Piper, Cessna, Mooney, Beech, J3CUB, STINSN and an oddball vaxen that was with me during my DEC days VIDSYS::. I have to name a unix pdp11 now. Allison

28 years, 1 month

Ultrix: Which Unix is it based on?

by kyrrin＠jps.net

This is a general question (and a return to topic -- sorry, I didn't mean to start a whole meaningless thread) for my fellow DEC'ers or anyone else with knowledge on the subject; which Unix is Ultrix (notably 4.3) based on, and how badly did DEC bastardize it? It would help me to know, 'cause I plan to use an Ultrix box as a mail processor eventually. Thanks! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin(a)jps.net) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..."

28 years, 1 month

INTEL PDS-100

by Marty＠itgonline.com

I have an Intel PDS-100 Personal Development System but no manuals or information on this unit. It is from 1979-1982 I believe, and has two prom programming boards with it. The unit is the size of a slightly large pc, has a carrying handle with built in monitor, keyboard and two 5 1/4" half height floppy drives. Any information would be greatly appreciated. Thanks- Marty Mintzell email:marty@itgonline.com

28 years, 1 month

History of OSs?

by dwollmann＠ibmhelp.com

Does anyone know of a more-or-less comprehensive history of Operating Systems online? I'd like to come up to speed on the OSs that are being discussed here--some of them sound very interesting. I'd be very interested to see a geneology tree--I've noticed some Unix genes in DOS (few) and I'm told it was based in part on things CP/M was doing at the time. -- David Wollmann | dwollmann(a)ibmhelp.com | Support for legacy IBM products. DST ibmhelp.com Technical Support | Data, document and file conversion for IBM http://www.ibmhelp.com/ | legacy file and media formats.

28 years, 1 month

Stop ATTACKING! (Especially Microsoft!)

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

The more that I think about this, the more that I hate it. People are attacking Microsoft, which I think is *very unfair.*. Sure, they've always got their eye on being the undisputed leader. But is that any different >from what Intel, DEC, Apple, or any other company, no matter how grand in technologies wants? Is that different from what *you* want? So, Microsoft's outgrown itself. For instance, it takes weeks to get a tech support reply back. So what? They're stepping into new territories, that they don't really know about. It makes *competition*, what brings out the best in companies, people, and prices. Anti-competitive measures? Everyone tries them, the only problem is when they *work*. Then, we get upset. For instance, Sun closing software and hardware design discourages competition. It's the same with drivers, hardware specs, and why companies keep most beta information under wraps. So, we've had our fun. We've stated our opinions. Time will prove us right, wrong, or indifferent. Let's let it take it's cource. And, enjoy it while we're on our way. Flaming isn't a solution, it's a problem. I implore you to think of this. Thanks for your time, Tim D. Hotze

28 years, 1 month

Tirades? Since when?

by kyrrin＠jps.net

Kai Kaltenbech chose to produce the following... >Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 09:45:01 -0800 >From: Kai Kaltenbach <kaikal(a)MICROSOFT.com> >To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu >Subject: RE: Arrrgh! Micro$h*t again.... >You know Bruce, it's offensive unthinking tirades like yours that make me >want to unsubscribe from this list and throw my classic computers in the >dumpster just so I would no longer have to count myself among your company. I'm truly sorry you feel that way. I notice that you work for Microsoft. With that in mind, your own statements are very understandable. I would point out that I have not attacked you, personally, in any way. You have given me no reason to. You, on the other wing, seem intent on attacking me strictly on the basis of my statement of a personal opinion. Chill out, have a brew, sit back, and think about this for a minute. Who's the one that really produced the "unthinking tirade?" ;-) We are all entitled to our own opinions. I welcome the fact that you obviously disagree with me (if everyone on the planet agreed on everything, I think we'd all be in more trouble than we are now, as a race!). If you would like clarification on why I feel the way I do, and the basis behind my statements, feel free to E-mail me so we don't end up cluttering the list. If you do not feel inclined to do so, that's no problem either. I will say this much and let it go. I have no great love for Microsoft products or for Billy-boy Gates' arrogant attitudes. I am not alone in these beliefs. I am a firm believer in consumer choice for hardware and software. Microsoft seems to support that choice -- as long as it's Microsoft's code-bloated, resource-wasteful software that is chosen. Now, if you'll excuse me, I need to get to work. BTW, my apologies to the other readers of this list. This is the last you'll hear from me on this thread. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin(a)jps.net) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..."

28 years, 1 month

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