Gone are three 486 clones that have been languishing in my garage for
nearly a year. They were traded for: an Apple Lisa 2, an Osborne
Executive, and a Northstar Horizon. The Lisa and Osborne have boot
disks and other software, and so far seem to work well. I also got a
Profile hard drive with the Lisa, but I haven't tried to hook it up
yet... I haven't messed with the Horizon at all, but it looks to be in
good shape, with CPU, ram, disk and i/o cards installed, along with a
couple of diskettes in the drives that might boot it, not sure yet.
I'll holler for help if this gives me trouble whenever I get to it,
though I do have huge collection of manuals for it that I had picked up
in anticipation of this day ;) Additionally, the guy I got all this
stuff from tossed in about a dozen cartridges for the TI-99 and Coco3
that I didn't already have. Happy happy joy joy.
--
mor(a)crl.com
http://www.crl.com/~mor/
At 10:04 PM 3/18/98 -0800, you wrote:
>The SyJet is very nice, but runs VERY Hot.
Mine is warm, but definitely not what I'd call hot.
>guess would be the Publishing industry still uses them quite a bit since
>it's usually in Mac catalogs and stores I see the carts for sale. Of
About 10 years ago, I too invested heavily in 44mb Syquest carts. The
reason I did, is because one of my clients at the time (a major graphics
arts firm (logos for the Olympics, Microslut, etc.)) was buying them the
way most high-tech companies buy diskettes: buy a couple of cases of them
and put them on the shelf for employees to come and grab a handful. And
they *used* them. All day long, and often all night too.
The syquests were also very popular with the Atari ST crowd too. Somewhere
around here (in *that* pile, I think) is an Atari branded cartridge.
--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-
Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/
"James Redin" <jredin(a)earthlink.net> wrote:
> I've found that the ANITA from Sumlock Comptometer of England (1963) is
> usually regarded as the first electronic calculator [1]. However, recently
> I found an article about Heinz Nixdorf of Germany in the LEXICON's History
> of Computing (CD-ROM) which indicates that he built several models of
> electronic calculators back in 1954 (Models ES12 and ES24).
At the risk of suggesting the obvious, have you contacted
the Heinz Nixdorf Museumforum? They have a web site at
http://www.hnf.de/ and one of the pages contains a list of
contact addresses. However, you will either need to read
German or have good luck with the translator at
http://www.altavista.digital.com/ (which is of limited use
on HNF's site because some of the text is embedded in images).
-Frank McConnell
At 04:14 AM 3/21/98 -0600, you wrote:
>On Sat, 21 Mar 1998, Benjamin M Coakley wrote:
>
>> Speaking of which, there's an HP41C at a thrift store near me. Anyone
>> want it? Is it at all interesting?
>
>It's only the best calculator ever made. Grab it quick, you won't regret
>it. It's programmable, can be expanded with RAM and ROM cartridges, and
>there's a whole bunch of cool little peripherals you can hook up to it.
>And I think it even does arithmetic.
Only Reverse Polish Arithmetic! :-)
Joe
all 80286 ps2 models ran at 10mhz. wait states differed.
david
In a message dated 98-03-21 13:42:20 EST, you write:
<< <Let me think... The 286 chip was available in 10MHz and 12MHz IIRC, mayb
<another speed too. I can't remember which speed the 50/50Z was.
The installed chips are 10mhz but that does not mean it ran that fast.
<Don't you love the way the case comes apart, and that little tool
<underneath the speaker to help take the rest of it apart? Defintley my
They do come apart nice.
But everything is oddball compared to the rest of my systems (s100, CPM
and DEC based).
Allison
>>
In a message dated 98-03-21 12:45:44 EST, you write:
<< Someone was throwing away a box of five shrinkwrapped ones like this.
I grabbed one and opened it, the rest I gently obsucred but they
might be gone. As I understand, this is an emulator for a 3270
terminal. Is it of any use to me without a System/370? Also, there
was a box with four or five shrinkwrapped apckages of IBM DOS 3.30.
Assuming anything is still there, does anyone want any of this?
>>
i might have something similar. i was given 5 shrinkwrap copies of ibm pc
3270 emulation program version 1.22
i opened one to see what it's like and the rest are upopened. not much use
though. i wouldnt mind a never opened package of dos3.3 to add to my
collection of never-used ibm software.
david
In a message dated 98-03-21 12:30:13 EST, you write:
<< Personally, I dislike PS/2s because they are almost impossible to
upgrade due to the weird specs. But, there was a time when I would do
almost anything for one. By the way, I found two weird systems at my
school. One is the "Writing System" which looks like a PS/2, and we
have a bunch of "Eduquest" systems, which are now all in the supply
room. >>
ps2 models arent really that hard to upgrade. the difficulty only comes when
someone attempts to upgrade it way beyond its capabilites. certain 95xx models
have used dx4/100 cpu also. eduquest systems are/were one piece mac-like
systems designed for school use. proprietary design, but so easy to work on.
some even had dos in rom.
david
In a message dated 98-03-21 11:33:13 EST, you write:
<< OK... could it allow for me to write in C? (Or any other languages in
particular) What are the chances of finding another 64K RAM upgrade to
boost it to the max 128KB?
Thanks again, >>
there were certain 128k ram cards for the ][+ and similar but i dont think
programs could use the extra memory. early versions of appleworks could be
patched to use it and dos 3.3 could use the mem as a virtual disk. the pocket
rocket's memory cannot be upgraded.
At 01:21 AM 3/21/98 -0600, you wrote:
>
>I know people collect calculators, but I just can't imagine how it can
>bring the same kind of satisfaction as computer collecting. You can't
>really hack a calculator. They don't lend themselves very well to
>restoration efforts. They can't do many tricks. And few of them have any
>sort of personality
Have you ever tried a HP 41? How does up to 961 external devices of
nearly every descrptions grab you? That's just one of the capabilities of
the HP-41 using the HP-IL interface. I currently have a 41 running a HP
logic analyzer!
(OK, I'll admit that HP tries pretty hard in this
>area).
They did a good job too :-)
>
>Has anybody ventured a definition of computer that allows us to weed out
>mere calculators? How about:
>
>* must be programmable
>* must be general purpose
>* must have alphanumeric input capabilites
>* must have alphanumeric display capabilites
The HP-41, 71, 75 and all the newer ones fit this description.
>
>Unfortunately, this would mean that an Altair isn't a computer until you
>add a terminal, but it keeps those pesky HP-65's out of the group.
>
>-- Doug
Joe
I'm new to the list and missed the original posting about the Friden delay
line. Can somebody forward to me the messages that have been crossed in
regards to the Friden calculator or tell me where can I search for old
postings?
Thanks!
James Redin
----------
> From: Allison J Parent <allisonp(a)world.std.com>
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
> Subject: Re: Delay lines
> Date: Friday, March 20, 1998 11:27 PM
>
>
> <Exactly. In the particular case of the Friden it was called a supersonic
> <delay line, although I've never been sure why.
>
> acoustic delay lines, they propagate bits translated to mechanical
> impulses at the speed of sound in a solid. The resulting delay is
> long enough to use ans a shift register to store bits.
>
> Allison
>
Hmmm,
The Goodwill pickings were bad. I only found one C128 and two
1571 drives, plus a 1084 composite monitor. The store manager wanted
$25 for _each_ item ($100 total?? BAH!). The C128 had several broken
keys, the Disk drives looked in pretty bad shape, so the only thing of
interest was the monitor. I took it. I also got some cables: a TTL
RGB cablefor the 128, A standard "monitor" cable and what looks to be
a drive cable (hey, they were willing to bundle it in for me).
So, the question is: can I use the 'split' composite cable for a
C64 with an Atari 800? By 'split' I refer to split chroma and
intensity signals... I know that the 1084 monitor can handle this, and
I know that the Atari outputs this format just like a C=64, but I
_don't_ know if the pinouts are the same between the two. Can anyone
help?
Thanks!
J. Maynard Gelinas
Sorry to go on and on about PC stuff, but I do need help.
I got a copy of Harvard Graphics 2.01 for DOS. I'm not sure if it
was my fault or not, but I damaged Program Disk 1. Scandisk reports
that cluster 0 is damaged and the disk cannot be fixed. I can view
the directory of the disk (5.25"), but the files are inaccessible.
Could someone either tell me how to fix this disk or send me another
one? (diskimages would do_)
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
<Let me think... The 286 chip was available in 10MHz and 12MHz IIRC, mayb
<another speed too. I can't remember which speed the 50/50Z was.
The installed chips are 10mhz but that does not mean it ran that fast.
<Don't you love the way the case comes apart, and that little tool
<underneath the speaker to help take the rest of it apart? Defintley my
They do come apart nice.
But everything is oddball compared to the rest of my systems (s100, CPM
and DEC based).
Allison
Hello Frank,
> maybe the definitions of computer/calculator are not exact; the Mk8 is
> stated as "first electronic desktop calculator" in
> "Bueromaschinen-Kompass", an annual handbook giving an overview on the
> market.
> I guess, what quilifies the Anita is the fact that it used Nixie-tubes
for
> displaying the results. A book, written 1960, titled "Electronic
> number-calculators" describes the display of results as the largest
> problem, the author had no idea of a practical solution (but describes
> every other technology used these days: core-Memory, delay-lines, tubes,
> even diodes and transistors).
> Regards,
> Frank Boehm
Yesterday I subscribed to a new list (Discussion re-collecting of classic
computers) hoping to get more info on the Nixdorf machines. The first
messages that came across were an ongoing discussion on the boundaries
between calculators and computers. It was very interesting for me. One of
the entries stated:
"Granted, these points are primarily moot, for the definition of a computer
as to be used on this list would need to be defined by Mr. Bill Whitson,
the (still) owner of this list.
>* must be programmable
>* must be general purpose
>* must have alphanumeric input capabilities
>* must have alphanumeric display capabilities."
Of course many current calculators would be considered computers under
these terms, however, we need to consider the context or frame of reference
for this definition. The list is oriented to "Classic computers" and
therefore the boundaries are relevant to the early computer/calculator
technology.
On the other hand, the fact that the ANITA would qualify for the first
electronic calculator because it was the first one with Nixie-tubes display
is not very clear either. Remember that the first pocket calculator, the
"Cal-Tech" from TI and its off-spring the Canon "Pocketronic" used a
thermal printer to display the results.
I would say that the terms above stated leads to a clear cut between
Computers/Calculators.
Now the real question should be:
Does anybody know if the ES 12 and ES 24 electronic calculators developed
by Nixdorf in 1953, were programmable and/or had alphanumeric input/display
capabilities?
Regards,
James Redin
http://www.dotpoint.com/xnumber
Pictures are worth 1000 words - my earlier text post didn't elicit any
responses... maybe one of you can ID this board (or more particularly, the
type of system) from the pictures. Two pics available; large and small.
The connector shows the single "pin" on this side, and multiple separate
pins on
the reverse.
http://www.comcen.com.au/~adavie/weird/boardbig.jpg [250K]
http://www.comcen.com.au/~adavie/weird/boardsmall.jpg [95K]
Betcha can't!
A
Apologies for the earlier post with the incorrect URL - don't you wish,
sometimes, that you could send a chase-up email to kill your earlier one?!!
Someone was throwing away a box of five shrinkwrapped ones like this.
I grabbed one and opened it, the rest I gently obsucred but they
might be gone. As I understand, this is an emulator for a 3270
terminal. Is it of any use to me without a System/370? Also, there
was a box with four or five shrinkwrapped apckages of IBM DOS 3.30.
Assuming anything is still there, does anyone want any of this?
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Personally, I dislike PS/2s because they are almost impossible to
upgrade due to the weird specs. But, there was a time when I would do
almost anything for one. By the way, I found two weird systems at my
school. One is the "Writing System" which looks like a PS/2, and we
have a bunch of "Eduquest" systems, which are now all in the supply
room.
>they can serve as spares for the rest of my systems. That and I'm not
>really into collecting PCs.
>
>Allison
>
>
>
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
<Depends. My 50Z has an ESDI drive(and IIRC they shipped with that, too),
<but any PS/2 drive with that connetor should work. What it is is that IB
<added an HD controller to the HD's main board, so that connector is an MC
<interface.
No the drive only has one board. That plugs into the board in the mca
bus. looks like the drive has minimal electronics on it and the board in
the mca is the edsi or mfm controller.
<no FD/HD/RAM. I'm thinking of using one as a terminal or something, putti
<in an ethernet card with a boot ROM or something wierd like that. The oth
One has a ni card, single BNC so I suspect eithernet.
Allison
<>* must be programmable
This would exclude many millions of MCUs based on chips like 8048,
8051, z80, I960, 80186/8, and several dozen more in embedded applications
like engine control, navigation, aircraft flyby wire systems or even some
calcs. This would include PDP-8s, pdp-11s and whatever else burried in
CNCs, MRIs and transportation control systems.
<>* must be general purpose
In the above cases the computer or microcomputer is running a dedicated
application from ROM or loaded from other media on power up. So they are
not general purpose in that case. Would this eliminate the PDP-8s used
by BART as computers?
<>* must have alphanumeric input capabilites
See above cases again consider the possible range of inputs. The input
could be barcode reader, thermal or position sensors or off a network from
other computers.
<>* must have alphanumeric display capabilites
Consider the above and the possible outputs. The result may be generating
engine spark timing, alarm output, opening a cuircit breaker, notifying
another computer.
Calculators as differentiated from mechanical adders, differentiated from
fixed program computers. The difference can be the application more so
than implementation. I tend to look to see if there is control or
branching on condition to see if we are talking calc, programmable calc
or more general computer. BUT by doing that do we have to look at the
user interface level or the internal implmentation level?
Allison
OK... could it allow for me to write in C? (Or any other languages in
particular) What are the chances of finding another 64K RAM upgrade to
boost it to the max 128KB?
Thanks again,
Tim D. Hotze
>pocket rocket is applied engineering's equivalent to apple's language card.
>it's very small, and doesnt require a cable to the motherboard like earlier
>models did.
>
>david
I remember reading a Byte article that told how to build a computer that
used a variant of the Z80 by Hatichi (I think that's how you spell it).
The computer was about the size of a lunch box. Apparently I have misplaced
that particular issue an was wondering if any one had it and was willing to
tell me where I could find the printed circuit board and the boot disks or at
least send me the art work and the parts list for this particular beast.
On 1998-03-20 classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu said to lisard(a)zetnet.co.uk
:I was just aquired two PS/2 model 50s. Normally I don't collect
:older PC system but they are interesting.
hmm. that resolves one question - if you've asked this, allison, then we
must be safe to ask something along the same lines...
a few weeks ago now, we picked up an ncr 286 machine with colour monitor
and wonderful keyboard. model number is not obvious, but the case is
flat, about 2" high (the height of a half-height disk drive) and about
the size of a small paving slab; internally, the machine is very odd,
with a backplane architecture, two daughterboards mounted on two boards
in that backplane, and *no* expansion capacity (no free slots). sayeth
the computer that it is a "class 3278 model 0129" machine. our question:
it says on boot-up that it is "running at low speed", which is 6MHz -
how do we get it to run a high speed? there is a switch on the lower
main board that does apparently nothing, and a jumper next to it. we
can't get further into the machine as we don't have the screwdriver...
(it looks like a philips' head, but the slots are too small. what do we
need?) or is it software switched?
--
Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling
you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her...
