Zane Healy proclaimed...
>Basically I've got a really stupid question, does the external SCSI bus
>HAVE to be terminated? If so any idea's on how to go about doing that
>without finding a DEC terminator?
The only "stupid" question is the one you keep to yourself. ;-)
To answer; yes, you must have termination at both physical ends of a SCSI
bus for reliable operation. If the DEC terminator you mention is the one
I'm thinking of, I've looked on the insides and have not been impressed.
They're simple passive terminators, suitable for short runs and low speeds.
What device is it you're seeking termination for?
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272)
(Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin(a)jps.net)
"Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own
human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..."
<megahertz (the Cyrix PR233's only 187.5) and actually benchmarking and
<performing like an Intel at a higher speed?
<>Besides it's checkes out on mine at 16 using norton, QAFE+ and a few
<>others.
<OK. If there's one thing that I've learned, what chip manufacturers put
<chips means nearly NOTHING. It's the software, RAM, bus and how they wor
<together that makes performance/lack thereof.
What on the chip is the design maximum (which may be exceeded by over
clocking at some risk), however the system design, wait states, bus
interface and a host of other design factor can slow the cpu down.
The cached (486) and highly piplined (pentium and friends) are more
variable as the clock speed is only an indicator of performance and if
the code runs with a log of cache misses the speed can really drop to
nothing. I know as the external cache croaked on my 486/25 and I ran
for a bit with the internal cache turned off and the performance was
worse than a 286/12! With the internal cache running it was only about
10% off the performance of the 64k external cache. Just to give you and
idea.
<>Look up ELKS.
<That's one, but there are many others. You could recompile them to be
<optimized for a 386, though.
Funny I have unix v7 running on a PDP11 with only 256kb of ram. it can be
done.
<><>Windows 3.1 does run on it with the 1meg.
<>Runs good and most software that will fit in 1meg runs ok. Swapping is
<>heavy though so a fast disk helps.
<Yeah, but how much Windows 3.1 software fits on a meg? I'd say at least
<I ran Windows 3.1 from 1993 to 1997, and I'd have to say that most progra
<that I ran were fairly large, most in double-digit MB's.
IF you mean running netscape, that monster wants a minimum of 8m just to
run and will still crash if pressed. Wordperfect for windows runs great,
as does Word3.0 in 1meg. There are a lot of older packages that run real
well in winders3.1 and 2meg or less.
<>3.0 is ok but it will not run some apps at all!
<Yeah, and Windows 3.1 won't run a lot of apps. It really all depends on
<owner, what they want to do, how they want to do it, and what SW they
Windoes 3.0 was not widely supported and it was upgraded to 3.1.
<already have. BTW, where can I get a lisence+docs, disks for Windows 2.x
<I need one for the above computer...
Why? For historical points but it was a dog and buggy as hell.
<Really? 3.3?
Yep!
<BTW, did you ever get that Linux box working? I just started
<w/Linux in Jan. and since then, I've installed, removed, reformated and r
<7 or so distributions. If you want, I can help, although I doubt my
<usefulnes past my own machines...
Yes I did with help from a few people. The system it's on is a 386DX/33
with 128k cache and a 420mb IDE and a CDrom. I'm not running X on it as it
only has 8megs and a low end VGA board currently. I'm not that
enthusastic over it as somea re.
Allison
I acquired a TRS-80 VOXBOX last week. It is in the original box
with cable, interface box, mic, and three casette tapes. I remember
when RS was selling these. Has anyone ever used one? Did they actually
work?
Any historical insight is appreciated.
Thanks...Win
--
Win Heagy
wheagy(a)erols.com
Hi,
I recently picked-up a couple TRS-80 model 1 keyboards, but there
was no monitor. Does anyone have info on using a B/W TV as
the monitor? I understand that the model 1 monitor was basically
a converted TV.
Thanks...Win
--
Win Heagy
wheagy(a)erols.com
<>It's warped. It's a 386/16 and that's all.
<Yeah, but with extra RAM, etc. it could very well benchmark as a higher o
<lower MHz, even with today's Winbench's.
Lower mhz yes faster never. Faster means a timer error or the program is
broken. The 386 implmentation on that card is very vanilla and no cache.
Besides it's checkes out on mine at 16 using norton, QAFE+ and a few
others.
<Linux won't run XF86 even in mono mode with less than 8MB RAM, which make
<zero sense because any PC that shipped with 8MB RAM and a mono card was
Whatever you do don't tell my 386sx/33 that! It might stop working.
< There are several projects going on to have Linux run on 286 and lowe
<machines, and, of course, lowering RAM consumption. There's an 8MB
<distribution that only requires 512K (I believe) RAM, if you give it enou
<swap space (in that case, it would be 3.5MB)
Look up ELKS.
<>Windows 3.1 does run on it with the 1meg.
<It'll run, but in my experience, Windows 3.1 doesn't do to much with it.
<friends 286 (they were still using it last summer when they moved, but i
<was retrofit with MY 210MB HDD, and a SVGA monitor and graphics card) Yo
<can't extract files, run most software that was designed for Windows 3.1
Runs good and most software that will fit in 1meg runs ok. Swapping is
heavy though so a fast disk helps.
3.0 is ok but it will not run some apps at all!
<I'd go with 3.0, if I had a choice. If I was you, I would just upgrade t
<DOS 5.0 or so. It'll run loads of software, and is more consistent with
I'm running 6.22 and LW had 5.x on his.
<hardware that you have, minus the 386CPU. And, it's smaller, so you coul
<actually have more software on it. Come to think of it, I believe that
<Windows 3.1 is like 25MB, plus the DOS 5.0 that's required to run it, whi
<fits on 5 720K floppies, I believe.
Huh? I had 6.22, win3.1, procomm+, and a few other things and had about
4.5mb free on a 20mb drive. DO5.0 would reduce it some but not alot, 3.3
would be far smaller and still run w3.1.
Allison
Ok, I ripped it to pieces. The drives x2 are Micropolis 1325's, connected
via an adaptec card:
Adaptec Inc.
400041-00A
(c) 1985
In the backplane, there are 6 vertical slots. From left to right:
1) 68020 processor board
2) "Graphics Memory" board, with chips that say:
Intech 52467
VDAL 0405H
vli 601s 01152
vl6845E-23PC
syp6845EA
3) The display board? Main chip:
LOGIC
LMI16DC
0114A
8448
4) Empty
5) Memory
6) Empty
I am afraid it may have been cannabalized, with the empty slots and all.
The other side of the backplane has all three of these slots
interconnected with ribbon cables, and the 6th has what looks like some
kind of resistor-pack board on part of the pins.
Any clues? An hour of searching on the internet only found resumes of
engineers who used it for pcb design.
TIA,
Aaron
In a message dated 98-04-05 14:35:36 EDT, you write:
<< Has anyone actually seen a 2.88 MB floppy drive? >>
certain 95xx ps2 models such as my 9577 and a few older thinkpadss had 2.88
drives. i think i saw some aftermarket 2.88 drives a few years ago, but
nothing since.
david
Hi all,
I picked up the "Sun" workstation that appeared for free here a couple of
weeks back and was pleasantly surprised at the haul, and a little
perplexed. What I got:
Cadnetix box with big colour monitor
Cipher C880 tape unit (Big sucker)
CItoh 1550B DM printer
A 286 workstation
Optical mice/pads and keyboards
All the thick-ethernet cabling and hardware for the PC nodes
About 30 10" tapes containing schematics for their legacy products
About 30 8" diskettes (Dysan!) with really neat 2-pack 3-ring holders
About 100 5 1/4" diskettes with SCO stuff on them
Since it was supposedly working when pulled, I plugged everything in and
just fired it up (Well, I looked into the top of the case first to make
sure there wasn't any sign of rust or water damage). So far, nothing. I
finally figured out how to get the case apart (very tricky little latch
that has to be pulled from the *inside*) and have examined it in more
detail. I believe it's a 68020 machine, and the manual says it runs a
"Cadnetix-modified" version of Berkley Unix 4.2. There are two large HD's
which are extremely inaccessable, but I may have to pull them to look
since they make a lot of noise. There is a 6-slot vertical backplane with
4 cards; what I believe is the memory board, the 68020 board, one marked
"Graphic Ram J177 Rev C", and one that is attached to the last with ribbon
cables. The keyboard plugs into the back of the display and the mouse into
the keyboard. Oh yeah, and there are three 5" fans screaming away in
there.
BTW, it's been powered on for 20 minutes or so with no display. My Sun
3/50 with 12 megs of ram only takes 5. The display is just black, although
on power on/off I can see signs of life (red/blue/white lines for an
instant).
Anyone have any technical info on this monster? I have the system users
guide, but no technical data on it whatsoever.
Thanks,
Aaron
PS - I think my wife was thinking divorce when I kept carrying boxes into
the house; I don't want to eat my pride and find that I can't get this
working....
for those of you that goto hamfests/radio rallies, here is a tip. if possible,
see if you can get in the night before under the premise of "setting up" i
actually did buy a table to sell some things, but me and another guy were able
to get inthe night before and set up our table and get our tickets. we were
also able to scope out other's tables and get the best stuff. unfortunately, i
missed out on a table of small hard drives for $4 each, and was a minute late
to get a home based robot called robie for $20. (grrrrrr) best thing to do is
scan everyone else's things all the time and buy what you see. nobody refused
to sell to us. i didnt sell much but here's what i bought:
4 mac adb keyboards, not tested $1
kaypro II with matching printer in great shape with original books and system
disks $10
nec scsi card for ps2 $4
apple ][+ with enhanced encoder board, ssc, and videx videoterm with dual
floppy drives. also got a box labeled applemouse, but it had 6 mouse cards in
it, but no mouses! also got hayes micromodem and dos/pascal manuals.
apple cd drive, two scsi cases, one with drive, one blank , $1 each
ps2 xga card
profile drive, no controller card, may have a lead on two lisas from the guy i
got it from.
also got some late model things cheap that arent worth mentioning. this may be
old hat, but i've noticed that it's worth mentioning you are interested in old
computers and are looking for X computer. that's how i got the lead on the
lisas.
david
><Yeah, but with extra RAM, etc. it could very well benchmark as a higher o
><lower MHz, even with today's Winbench's.
>
>Lower mhz yes faster never. Faster means a timer error or the program is
>broken. The 386 implmentation on that card is very vanilla and no cache.
Ok. Than what the heck is all this about AMD's and Cyrix's having LOWER
megahertz (the Cyrix PR233's only 187.5) and actually benchmarking and
performing like an Intel at a higher speed?
>Besides it's checkes out on mine at 16 using norton, QAFE+ and a few
>others.
OK. If there's one thing that I've learned, what chip manufacturers put on
chips means nearly NOTHING. It's the software, RAM, bus and how they work
together that makes performance/lack thereof.
><Linux won't run XF86 even in mono mode with less than 8MB RAM, which make
><zero sense because any PC that shipped with 8MB RAM and a mono card was
>
>Whatever you do don't tell my 386sx/33 that! It might stop working.
OK. At our school, we've got some NICE 386's. SVGA video cards w/2MB RAM,
16MB RAM each, and an interesting way to put a 3.5" drive in a 5" bay. Now,
I really need a small IDE HDD or a 3.5" MFM HDD and controller for one...
>< There are several projects going on to have Linux run on 286 and lowe
><machines, and, of course, lowering RAM consumption. There's an 8MB
><distribution that only requires 512K (I believe) RAM, if you give it enou
><swap space (in that case, it would be 3.5MB)
>
>Look up ELKS.
That's one, but there are many others. You could recompile them to be
optimized for a 386, though.
><>Windows 3.1 does run on it with the 1meg.
><It'll run, but in my experience, Windows 3.1 doesn't do to much with it.
><friends 286 (they were still using it last summer when they moved, but i
><was retrofit with MY 210MB HDD, and a SVGA monitor and graphics card) Yo
><can't extract files, run most software that was designed for Windows 3.1
>
>Runs good and most software that will fit in 1meg runs ok. Swapping is
>heavy though so a fast disk helps.
Yeah, but how much Windows 3.1 software fits on a meg? I'd say at least 2.
I ran Windows 3.1 from 1993 to 1997, and I'd have to say that most programs
that I ran were fairly large, most in double-digit MB's.
>3.0 is ok but it will not run some apps at all!
Yeah, and Windows 3.1 won't run a lot of apps. It really all depends on the
owner, what they want to do, how they want to do it, and what SW they
already have. BTW, where can I get a lisence+docs, disks for Windows 2.x?
I need one for the above computer...
><I'd go with 3.0, if I had a choice. If I was you, I would just upgrade t
><DOS 5.0 or so. It'll run loads of software, and is more consistent with
>
>I'm running 6.22 and LW had 5.x on his.
I like DOS. It's a good OS. If it were kept more alive today...
><hardware that you have, minus the 386CPU. And, it's smaller, so you coul
><actually have more software on it. Come to think of it, I believe that
><Windows 3.1 is like 25MB, plus the DOS 5.0 that's required to run it, whi
><fits on 5 720K floppies, I believe.
>
>Huh? I had 6.22, win3.1, procomm+, and a few other things and had about
>4.5mb free on a 20mb drive. DO5.0 would reduce it some but not alot, 3.3
>would be far smaller and still run w3.1.
Really? 3.3? BTW, did you ever get that Linux box working? I just started
w/Linux in Jan. and since then, I've installed, removed, reformated and ran
7 or so distributions. If you want, I can help, although I doubt my
usefulnes past my own machines...
If Linux/UNIX clones were really wnated, Minix is free for personal
use... a older version, if it can be found, would probably work.
Tim D. Hotze
>I have a bunch of 80 MB mac hard drives. would an old PC SCSI card
>run them?
Depends. If it was designed for a Mac specifically, then it won't work.
But 9/10 SCSI devices will work indescriminately on a Mac, PC, or Unix
machine, provided that drivers exist, if required.
>>HUH? Neither of these are an helped/hindered by the 386. SCSI is not
>>needed to run 1.44/1.2 FDDs. You can put scsi in there even when it
>was
>>an plain xt. To run the bigger floppies you need a controller that
>will,
>>most XT controllers will not. JDR and JAMCO sell a board that will do
>up
>>to 2.88 drives in a XT slot.
>Has anyone actually seen a 2.88 MB floppy drive?
I have. Almost got one. They were $7 new, black, from IBM. Actually, I
don't really like 2.88MB drives: The meida STILL costs about $3-$4 a disk,
and when you can just get 2 or 3 $0.25 or LESS 1.44MB disks, and then use a
program to cut files down, you end up with better prices. So, unless you
had a specific use, or REALLY wanted to cut down on total disk #'s, I can't
say that I want one, especially not now, when Castle Wood's
(http://www.castlewoodsystems.com) coming out with a $199 ORB drive, that
can outperform Jaz drives, and hold 100MB more for $30 a piece on 2.1GB
media. THAT'S innovation: New technology, low price, and a cool name.
Ciao,
Tim D. Hotze
>
>
><up comes an Intel flashscreen
>< Inboard 386 PC
>< Vers 1.1 02/17/89
>< Intel Corporation
>
>Same beast I have in my Leading Edge XT.
>
><recognize Very rudimentary Auto and Config usual but with inbrdpc.sys
>< Of course I quickly pop it open No HD !!??
>
>Don't lose those files!
>
><Snooper tells me it has 2 ser ports and 2 paral. configured and
bench-mar
><20mhz ( don't know how accurate Snoop's bench is but this sure beats
an X
>
>It's warped. It's a 386/16 and that's all.
How accurate are those diags anyway? Are they to be trusted?
>
>That's been going on for a while and there was a AT (286) version as
well.
>
>< The possibilities are interesting. I'm wondering if I could beef up
the
><Put in an Extended Graphics Adapter (not Array) and hook up my 3270
><type IBM monitor (5272). There's an interesting section in Que's
"Upgradi
>
>IF it's ISA-8 you likely can.
>
>< It would be neat if I could run Linux on it.
>< Excuse my blathering but I'm like a kid with an amazing new toy.
>
Although this certainly is a cool toy (I'd love to have an XT I could
do something wiht), you shouldn't be able to put Linux on it. For
one thing, it seems to need drivers, and Linux doesn't have them.
Also, the fact that it's an ISA card could reduce performance. Lastly,
the thing may not run at full 32 bits,protected mode.
>
>Windows 3.1 does run on it with the 1meg.
Yes, but no windows programs except the ones that came with it.
>
>
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Hi,
----------
> From: Zane H. Healy <healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com>
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
>
> Anyway, the result was I pulled my VT420 out of storage, hunted up a
cable
> for the terminal, and powered it on. It seems to be working just fine,
and
> much to my surprise and pleasure it has 16Mb of RAM. Of course it's only
> running VMS 5.3 on a pair of RZ-23's, but hey it's faster, smaller and
> quieter than my MV2! Now to get a better Hard Drive, and add a CD-ROM.
& try NetBSD ....
cheers,
emanuel
Today I picked up from the garbage a 9pin Epson and what I first thought
was a big old IBM XT figuring I could always off it to someone after I checked
out it's peripherals. When I got home I found it was a 5150. I noticed it had a
paste-on sticker "Intel Inboard 386" Someone's attempt at humor I thought
since the 5150 was the first IBM PC IIRC and likely had only 256k RAM.
It had the DIN plugs for kb and cassette and two full-ht. IBM fdds; couldn't
see a Hdd. The 5 expansion slots seemed full tho and I was getting more
interested. I hooked up a monitor and kb and fired it up without opening it up
first (I know-risky). Started up fine, flashing cursor checked the drives and
up comes an Intel flashscreen
Inboard 386 PC
Vers 1.1 02/17/89
Intel Corporation
conv. mem. init. 640 k
ext mem. 256 k
Initial Op. Speed Very Fast
system BIOS 32-bit RAM
EGA BIOS ROM
iNBRDPC Dev. Driver installed
I hit a key and up comes a C:\ prompt.!
Nothing too interesting on the HD , usual WP5.1 and Lotus a few others i don't
recognize Very rudimentary Auto and Config usual but with inbrdpc.sys
Of course I quickly pop it open No HD !!??
It turns out it has a 20 Meg "Plus Development" Hard Card .
The Intel card is a 16mhz and it has an empty socket for a 387
The small serial port card has f - 15 pin and 25 pin sockets.
Small Herc. type card video and prtr.ports
The floppy controller card has a f-35 pin ext. socket ?
Snooper tells me it has 2 ser ports and 2 paral. configured and bench-marks
20mhz ( don't know how accurate Snoop's bench is but this sure beats an XT)
I was blown away I didn't think an XT much less a PC could be upgraded
without replacing the MB. And the Hard Card was gravy
The possibilities are interesting. I'm wondering if I could beef up the RAM
Put in an Extended Graphics Adapter (not Array) and hook up my 3270
type IBM monitor (5272). There's an interesting section in Que's "Upgrading
and Repairing PCs" on the 3270PC BTW. I wonder also what the cassette
and 35 pin I/Os offer in the way of interfacing According to Snooper there's
16 Irq's.and I could free up a exp. socket by pulling the hard card if I could
put in a bigger HD. Would a SCSI card be an option so I could put in 1.2 and
/or 1.44 fdds ?
It would be neat if I could run Linux on it.
Excuse my blathering but I'm like a kid with an amazing new toy.
ciao larry
lwalker(a)interlog.com
><up comes an Intel flashscreen
>< Inboard 386 PC
>< Vers 1.1 02/17/89
>< Intel Corporation
>
>Same beast I have in my Leading Edge XT.
That would be cool to have.
><Snooper tells me it has 2 ser ports and 2 paral. configured and bench-mar
><20mhz ( don't know how accurate Snoop's bench is but this sure beats an X
>
>It's warped. It's a 386/16 and that's all.
Yeah, but with extra RAM, etc. it could very well benchmark as a higher or
lower MHz, even with today's Winbench's.
>< I was blown away I didn't think an XT much less a PC could be upgraded
><without replacing the MB. And the Hard Card was gravy
>
>That's been going on for a while and there was a AT (286) version as well.
>
>< The possibilities are interesting. I'm wondering if I could beef up the
><Put in an Extended Graphics Adapter (not Array) and hook up my 3270
><type IBM monitor (5272). There's an interesting section in Que's "Upgradi
>
>IF it's ISA-8 you likely can.
>
>< It would be neat if I could run Linux on it.
>< Excuse my blathering but I'm like a kid with an amazing new toy.
>
>No way! All the ram you have is the 1meg on the inboard and I think it
>used the 256k (maximum) on the mother as expanded mem. If yu can find the
>memory card that piggy backs to it you can add either a meg or maybe two
>to it. Nomantter what linux in less than 4meg would be poor and
>completely unrunable in under 2mb.
Linux won't run XF86 even in mono mode with less than 8MB RAM, which makes
zero sense because any PC that shipped with 8MB RAM and a mono card was
either: 1) Something like a NeXT machine 2) A graphics machine, but was
DEFINATELY NOT A GENERAL-USE PC!
There are several projects going on to have Linux run on 286 and lower
machines, and, of course, lowering RAM consumption. There's an 8MB
distribution that only requires 512K (I believe) RAM, if you give it enough
swap space (in that case, it would be 3.5MB)
>Windows 3.1 does run on it with the 1meg.
It'll run, but in my experience, Windows 3.1 doesn't do to much with it. My
friends 286 (they were still using it last summer when they moved, but it
was retrofit with MY 210MB HDD, and a SVGA monitor and graphics card) You
can't extract files, run most software that was designed for Windows 3.1.
I'd go with 3.0, if I had a choice. If I was you, I would just upgrade to
DOS 5.0 or so. It'll run loads of software, and is more consistent with the
hardware that you have, minus the 386CPU. And, it's smaller, so you could
actually have more software on it. Come to think of it, I believe that
Windows 3.1 is like 25MB, plus the DOS 5.0 that's required to run it, which
fits on 5 720K floppies, I believe.
Ciao,
Tim D. Hotze
>Allison
>
<up comes an Intel flashscreen
< Inboard 386 PC
< Vers 1.1 02/17/89
< Intel Corporation
Same beast I have in my Leading Edge XT.
<recognize Very rudimentary Auto and Config usual but with inbrdpc.sys
< Of course I quickly pop it open No HD !!??
Don't lose those files!
<Snooper tells me it has 2 ser ports and 2 paral. configured and bench-mar
<20mhz ( don't know how accurate Snoop's bench is but this sure beats an X
It's warped. It's a 386/16 and that's all.
< I was blown away I didn't think an XT much less a PC could be upgraded
<without replacing the MB. And the Hard Card was gravy
That's been going on for a while and there was a AT (286) version as well.
< The possibilities are interesting. I'm wondering if I could beef up the
<Put in an Extended Graphics Adapter (not Array) and hook up my 3270
<type IBM monitor (5272). There's an interesting section in Que's "Upgradi
IF it's ISA-8 you likely can.
< It would be neat if I could run Linux on it.
< Excuse my blathering but I'm like a kid with an amazing new toy.
No way! All the ram you have is the 1meg on the inboard and I think it
used the 256k (maximum) on the mother as expanded mem. If yu can find the
memory card that piggy backs to it you can add either a meg or maybe two
to it. Nomantter what linux in less than 4meg would be poor and
completely unrunable in under 2mb.
Windows 3.1 does run on it with the 1meg.
Allison
<> Would a SCSI card be an option so I could put in 1.2 and/or 1.44 fdds
HUH? Neither of these are an helped/hindered by the 386. SCSI is not
needed to run 1.44/1.2 FDDs. You can put scsi in there even when it was
an plain xt. To run the bigger floppies you need a controller that will,
most XT controllers will not. JDR and JAMCO sell a board that will do up
to 2.88 drives in a XT slot.
FYI I've hacked the leading edge (xt) I have to include most of what you
mention including a 20meg WD hardcard. It's MONO/herc, 20meg hardcard,
1.44 floppy, multi-IO (two serial, two LPT, game). Runs dos6.22
and I've had windows3.1 to prove it runs.
Allison
<Are you saying that a 486 is only faster than a 286 because of the
<cache?
No I'm saying without the cache is run as slow as a 286! The reson is it
has to wait for ram data at the ram data rates. That's 70ns in my 486
and the faster 286s used 80ns ram so the end up running about the same
speed. The cache is to allow near continious reading fo ram data even
when the processor is not reading in in advance of need. By doing that
and using fast page read mode data can be fed to the cpu to support the
higher speed.
<>Funny I have unix v7 running on a PDP11 with only 256kb of ram. it can
<be done.
<Isn't v7 the latest UNIX distribution?
No. It's PDP-11 circa 1980ish. It was followed later by 2.9bsd and
2.11bsd.
<I once had an old 386 with a 20MB MFM hard drive and 2MB RAM. Windows
<ran OK, but Word 2.0 ran very poorly. Strange that I've never seen
<3.0. Is it rare?
Not so much rare as short lifetime between it'release and 3.1s release.
<Actually, Windows 3.0 came with a copy of MS-DOS executive, the
<precursor to the program manager, while 3.1 didn't. That's not
Funny my copy of 3.0 has program manager. MSDOS executive is a different
tool. It compete against Quarterdedk, and Norton commander.
<have to disable it for Windows 95, which needs at least 7.0. I have
<DOS 3.3, and it's a good DOS. If only it had MOVE...I can send anyone
<who wants them some copies. I THINK I have four more boxes. Five are
<already spoken for.
I have 3.3, 5.0 and 6.22. Move from 5.0 runs under 3.3.
Allison
Well, today's hunting turned up some good stuff.
A Tandy 100 with manual for $15.
A compact Monolithic Systems rack-mount computer. It's multi-bus based
with a Z-80 CPU. It came with complete manuals, an extender card, a dual
8" drive unit, and a couple 2716/2764 (or was that 2704/2716?) EPROM
programmer cards. I also got the Teletype ASR-33 that was used with this
system. It had a stand, a current loop to RS-232 converter, and the
complete manual set (including service manuals). The complete setup for
$45.
I then happened upon an AIM 65 authentically mounted to a piece of
plywood. This was an amazing find in that I got the original box with all
the manuals and sales literature (with technical specs). This unit also
came with the optional BASIC ROMs. The manuals included were:
BASIC Language Reference Manual
8K BASIC Reference Card
R6500 Hardware Manual
R6500 Programming Manual
R6500 Users Guide
AUM-65 Summary Card
Also in the box was a fold-out schematic for the AIM-65 and the warranty
card. Much thanks to Frank McConnell & Company for not engaging me in a
bidding war over this as we discovered it at the same time. I got this
for $40.
The same guy also had a very rare Morrow portable I'd been searching out
for a long time. A local surplus shop has one but refuses to sell it to
me because they claim all their original records were stored on it. No
attempt at begging or coercion would get them to sell it to me, so it was
nice to finally find one. Its a portable made by Morrow which runs CP/M.
I think the model is a C3P. It has two 5.25" HH floppies and a
funky-looking wide screen. The guy also threw in a complete run of BAMDUA
(Bay Area Micro Decision User's Group) which was a newsletter for the
Morrow Micro-Decision here in the Bay Area. Also a complete run of
"Morrow Owner's Review", which was a Morrow magazine for users of the
Micro-Decision. Oddly enough the magazine ceased publication as late as
December 1987 (I would've thought it would have ceased well before that).
I also got a photo-copied service manual for the Micro-Decision which is
cool since I have a flaky MD-2 that needs attention. Plus a bunch of
5.25" disks, some books (Best of Micro Vol. II & III, Ciarca's Circuit
Cellar Vol. III) and some Morrow and Kaypro marketing literature. This
was another $39.
I also got the Sept. 83 issue of Byte from which I culled these
interesting tibits:
The editorial on page 4 covered the issue of FAA regulations banning the
use of portables on airline flights. I wonder when this ban was
overturned? Its interesting in that it mirrors the same concern over
cellular phones interfering with air-to-ground communications, all of
which is a bunch of hooey. Page 12 had a letter from a reader concerned
about the proliferation of mice as a pointing device. "I am sorry to see
Apple, Visicorp, and possibly Microsoft jump onto the Xerox bandwagon and
introduce a mouse into their new integrated computing software," he
writes. "The mouse is an inherently bad pointing device for at least
three reasons: it consumes one to two square feet of flat desk space; it
requires users to move their hands one to two feet from the keyboard in
order to point at a screen object; and, because the mouse is not in a
fixed place relative to the keyboard, users must look away from their work
to find the mouse whenever it is to be used." He then goes on to espouse
the virtues of a trackball. Needless to say I'm sure this guy died off
with CP/M :) In an article on portables, an inline quote says, "Any
computer can be transportable if you have a big enough truck." Ladies &
Gentlemen, finally a definition of "portable". Lastly, there's an article
for an S-100 PC, of all things. IBM compatibility in an S-100 bus. The
funny thing is the article promises "with its S100 bus expansion
capability, your system will never be outdated." How ironic :)
A couple other things I got included a Voice Processing module for the
strange Convergent Technologies system I have ($1) and an 8080/8085
emulator (circa 1984) in a hard-shelled carrying case ($20).
I managed to find room in the garage to store the new stuff, but I don't
know how much longer I can hold out. You'd think a 3-car garage would
hold more. I guess the pool table will have to go soon.
Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass
Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
OK.. I've been thinking about this for a while. ISA's going to die, at
least according to MS's PC '98 specs. Knowing how most designers comply to
MS's hardware design, it looks like ISA's future is dim. Now, on top of all
the old ISA cards I've collected, I just got an AWE 64, and my scanner and
PCMCIA cards are ISA-based. So, is it possible to make a device that will
make an ISA card fit into a PCI socket? Is anyone making them?
Thanks,
Tim D. Hotze
This week has been pretty good and I picked up over 40 items, what follows
is just a short list of the items I think are worth mentioning.
PC1512DD Amstrad system complete with monitor, kb, and manuals not tested yet;
IBM PS/2 8580-121 tower not tested yet;
digital PC278-A DecMate II with two system diskettes not tested yet;
Compaq Portable II not tested yet;
Apple Mono Monitor IIe Platinum new in box with all papers and cords;
Prim LTS300 Terminal Server;
The Designer Pencil cartridge;
HP 9121 not test yet;
Apple High resolution Mono works great;
IBM terminal 8535150 I think is the number;
AED Colorware 767 TT;
digital monitor VR290-DA;
PixelView II monitor by Mirror;
Toshiba T1000XE with everything manual, extra new batteries, etc;
Portac unit;
Sharp CE-150 printer and cassette unit;
Sharp CE-159 program module;
Many other items that will go into the museum someday. Keep Computing !!
John
Just picked up an interesting unit at a hamfest, there was a box with a
large power supply, a long tube with BNC connectors at each end(some sort
of attenuator I suppose), and a large jumble of cards inside a backplane.
Well, when I just got home now I dug through it, and found a few
interesting things inside. The first card is from Intel, with an 8086 CPU
and some other stuff. Attached to the CPU board are two daughterboards, one
with a connector and an 8272 chip, and another with an 8203 and a bunch of
EPROMs, as well as a lithium battery. There are a 50pin and 26pin edge
connector on the top of the CPU board.
The second board is a Netronix "Multibus PC Network Adapter" card, with an
F-type connector. I don't know much about this type of network system
except I don't have anything to hook into it.
Third card is another one from Intel, labeled "iSBC 576", with another
8086, two connectors on the top, and an SBC576 daughtercard.
Fourth card is a PROSE 2000, with a 26-pin edge connector and another
connector, and a bunch of EPROMs marked "Speech Plus (c)1983", and yet
another 8086 chip. Looks like the company name is Speech Plus Inc. I guess
this is a speech synth.
The last two cards appear to be memory expansion, made by Memtech, and have
a large (50 pin) connector on the top, and "ISBC254S" silkscreened into the
board.
So, does anyone know what to do with this thing? How do I set it up? What
kind of OS does it run? I'm thinking it may have been a repeater
controller(I did find this at a hamfest...), which would make sense, with
the speech synth being the automatic ID'er. Where do I find info on all
this multibus stuff?
Thanks
--------------------------------------------------------------
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| orham(a)qth.net list admin KD7BCY
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In a message dated 98-04-04 03:45:54 EST, you write:
<< OK.. I've been thinking about this for a while. ISA's going to die, at
least according to MS's PC '98 specs. Knowing how most designers comply to
MS's hardware design, it looks like ISA's future is dim. Now, on top of all
the old ISA cards I've collected, I just got an AWE 64, and my scanner and
PCMCIA cards are ISA-based. So, is it possible to make a device that will
make an ISA card fit into a PCI socket? Is anyone making them? >>
this question seems to be similar to another problem; people want to use isa
cards in a mca machine, and it's just not possible. best just to keep a legacy
machine around since it seems there will always be isa cards around. gee,
gotta love that pc97 criteria. silent posting and no memory count? harrrrumph,
really good for problem determination! 8-\
david
<People are moving to Texas and don't wanna have to haul it.
<IBM PS/3 model 30, VGA monitor, a whole box of software,
<printer of some sort. Any takers?
<They want about $50, but will take any reasonable offer.
They are kidding. It's an 8mhz 8086, ISA8 two floppies and it may have a
color monitor of the older coarse dot pitch. Not worth 50$, 10 or 15
maybe.
It would cost too much ship it or I'd be interested in it for the
monitor. (I'd keep the box as it's small and a robust design turbo XT)
Allison
> Basically I've got a really stupid question, does the external SCSI bus
> HAVE to be terminated? If so any idea's on how to go about doing that
> without finding a DEC terminator?
Yes, it needs termination, unless there's nothing connected *and the cable
between the controller and the last socket* is extrememly short -- which it
often isn't. This rule applies to SASI, SCSI (aka SCSI-1), SCSI-2, and SCSI-3.
Otherwise, you'll get signal reflections, which, at best, will limit the speed
the bus can run at. There should be a terminator at each end of the bus.
There are two kinds of terminators: active and passive. In passive types, each
signal has a 220 ohm resistor to +5V and a 330 ohm resistor to ground. They
hold the voltage on an idle line at about 3 volts, and (assuming the power
supply impedance is negligible) form an effective impedance of 132 ohms. The
ideal impedance depends on the cable, but it's generally about 110 ohms. It's
this terminating impedance that prevents reflections.
Active terminators do the same job, but each signal line is connected via a 110
ohm resistor to a 2.85V supply. These are a somewhat better impedance match
and often have a better high-speed response, so they're recommended for faster
SCSI busses.
Being exceedingly stingy, I built an active terminator using a pile of
miniature resistors, a voltage regulator, a couple of capacitors, and a plug.
Oh, and an LED for show. I don't believe any electronic device should be
LED-less, and if it flashes, so much the better :-) I would recommend buying
a terminator, though; building mine was quite fiddly and time-consuming.
> I'd like to be able to run it without the terminater, since I don't have
> one, but would like to know if it's possible before I go digging up the
> rest of the stuff I need to see if it works.
If your bus ends at a 68-pin socket (which is a DEC special, not part of the
SCSI spec, unless it's Wide SCSI), it might be relatively hard to find a
terminator plug. But most devices have provision for terminating resistors on
the the device itself. All the RZ drives and CD ROM drives I've seen do.
Usually these are in the form of three single-inline resistor packs, each with
8 pins, and containing six pairs of 220/330 ohm resistors. Toshiba CD-ROM
drives use two 11-pin networks, though. They cost about 40 pence each from
electronics suppliers in the UK; I expect they cost about the same in the
States.
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Dept. of Computer Science
University of York
