I object to the use of the Classic Computer mailing list for advertising
for-sale items on an ongoing basis for profit. I consider the use of this
list in this way akin to dropping advertising leaflets in my mailbox, or
ringing me up and asking if I want to buy insurance.
Surely, the newsgroups and eBay, etc., are an appropriate place for regular
sales?
A mailing list dealing with the preservation of classic computers is not.
Cheers
A
At 17:23 08/04/98 -0700, Jack wrote:
>I learn something new almost every day on this list...Today I learned
>that computers were actually made in Europe and not just in the U.S.
>Now if someone would just explain why anyone would want to collect a
>euro-computer?
> Jack "tongue planted firmly in his US-centric cheek" Peacock
Hmm,"The tongue goes where the tooth hurts"
Riccardo
?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
? Riccardo Romagnoli,collector of:CLASSIC COMPUTERS,TELETYPE UNITS,PHONES ?
? AND PHONECARDS I-47100 Forli'/Emilia-Romagna/Food Valley/ITALY ?
? Pager(DTMF PHONES)=+39/16888(hear msg.and BEEP then 5130274*YOUR TEL.No.* ?
? where*=asterisk key |4 help visit http://www.tim.it/tldrin_eg/tlde03.html ?
? e-mail=chemif(a)mbox.queen.it ?
?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
Van Burnham <van(a)wired.com> wrote:
> ps...Upon reading the thread regarding the justification in
> maintaining "modifications" made to a 128K Mac, I was reminded of a
> nightmare I witnessed at a vids auction. It appears someone had
> decided that it would be considerably more "state-of-the-art" to play
> something new instead of a slow-ass game called Computer Space...and
> proceeded to destroy the original board and monitor casing in order to
> convert the sleek fiberglass metalflake cabinet to play Pac-Man
> instead. I don't see why defacing a classic Mac (or "Frankentosh" as
> they say) should be regarded as any less horriffic. Am I totally off
> here? Anyone?
No, you're just mostly off.
The 128K Mac in question was one that had been upgraded with
contemporary modifications during its useful service life, with the
intention of making it do its thing, only better. It wasn't defaced,
it was enhanced, with things that were designed for just that purpose,
by someone using it for its intended purpose. And at its core it's
the same 128K Mac.
Gutting a 128K Mac to fit an SE/30's works inside would be stretching
this notion of "enhancement" a bit more than I'm comfortable with,
because so far as I know Mac users didn't do that sort of thing and
that sure isn't what SE/30 works were designed for. (But I'm not a
Mac guy and maybe someone did do this back then.)
And if I knew of someone planning to do something like what you
describe to a Computer Space machine today, well...I think that
stretches this notion past the point of fatigue. I'd certainly
encourage him away from such a course of action. What would I have
done in, say, 1982 though? I don't know, I might have even helped do
it, though I really don't think I'd have seen any point to it even
then.
Now, that said, the goals of collectors don't necessarily have much to
do with the goals of the computer's contemporary users. Original
unmodified 128K Macs will probably be of more interest to some,
because they were The First Macintoshes (available for public sale,
anyway), and being first does have a certain cachet. And the fact
that many of their original users felt the need for such upgrades has
made unmodified 128K Macs that much rarer today.
-Frank McConnell
A real gentle-man!
enrico
Sam Ismail wrote:
>
> On Tue, 7 Apr 1998, Enrico Tedeschi wrote:
>
> > You are demontrating AGAIN that you don't care about other people feelings and
> > problems. You are NOT in charge of policing this mailgroup. If you don't want
> > to see this sort messages anymore help me to fix my problem.
>
> I'm not going to help you do shit. This is YOUR problem. This is NOT the
> problem of classiccmp! Therefore, DON'T POST YOUR PROBLEMS ON CLASSICCMP!
> I don't post how much of an ass I think you are, so don't post your
> personal crap either! And you'd better bet that when I do take over the
> list, I'll make sure YOU are on the list of moderated members since you
> have proven time and time again that you can't police yourself. So show
> some restraint and respect and KEEP YOUR GARBAGE IN PRIVATE E-MAIL PLEASE!
>
> Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Don't blame me...I voted for Satan.
>
> Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
> See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
--
========================================================
Enrico Tedeschi, 54 Easthill Drive, Brighton BN41 2FD, UK
Tel/fax(+01273) 701650 (24 hours) and 0498 692465 (mobile)
please visit my website at: <http://www.brighton-uk.com>
========================================================
Charles A. Davis wrote:
> It's also pertinent _what_ is being offered for sale, Complete and
> operational systems, will probably do great on one of the 'aution'
> sites. Random repair pieces, odd boards, documentation, weird
It seems to me if the "for sale" was restricted to 10 years or older
there would be no place for spam related "hot PII price list" stuff. I
have never received a single spam price list listing a uVAX I, an IMSAI
chassis, or a big price break on 16KB static RAM boards. Keep the For
Sale mail, but how about labeling it with the "FS:" prefix in the
subject so those who object can filter it out? I for one watch for the
occasional odd S-100 card, where else am I going to see that kind of
stuff?
Jack Peacock
Russ and list
I admit to a bad mail day.
The bickering between Enrico and Cord, was another area where TWICE I wrote
a reply to the list and successfully staid my hand. I thought some were
using the list as a profit making exercise, and I apologise for this error.
I would still like to see prices kept private and simply "contact me if
you're interested", but of course that is a matter of personal preference.
I think we can close this thread, no?
A
I'm supposed to be playing with Windows NT Server now... (BLEAH!)
But the hardware guys are playing around, and they won't build my server. They have all the parts. So, I started scrounging around myslef...
Found a 486DX4/100, 16 meg or RAM, etc...
But a proper case was nowhere to be found!
So I got me a cardboard box and some masking tape...
:)
I showed the result to our upstream admin, and we was laughing so hard we has almost crying...
It's SERVER IN A BOX!
(If you can call it that...)
My boss says it's OK as long as I power it off when I leave, so it doesn't
catch fire.
-------
>> I'm supposed to be playing with Windows NT Server now... (BLEAH!)
> You GOT it, Seagraves. Seriously.
>
> In Yuk factor, this NT really take the cake. Took my boss months to
> learn and setup a NT server and 1,000's of reboots, each changes even
> one requires reboot. And a one dead PC too and few cards blown
> along with few boards that NT hates! I think I might able master
> Linux with good docs in very significent shorter time with more
> changes between fewer reboots.
We're being migrated to Windows Not Tolerable tomorrow, here at Power
Tech. Wish me luck, or pray for me to any god you think might answer...
Philip.
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Philip Belben <><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Bloedem Volke unverstaendlich treiben wir des Lebens Spiel.
Grade das, was unabwendlich fruchtet unserm Spott als Ziel.
Magst es Kinder-Rache nennen an des Daseins tiefem Ernst;
Wirst das Leben besser kennen, wenn du uns verstehen lernst.
Poem by Christian Morgenstern - Message by Philip.Belben(a)powertech.co.uk
PS I like the server in a box! Keep up the good work! P.
I have a GOB of manuals with software in 5.25" (and one 3.5") disks for
an IBM System 36. Here's a list of what's involved...
(D) denotes disks (N) notebook/looseleaf (W) wirebound (V) Vinyl
Folder
Small format books:
1) PC Support/36 technical reference, IBM SC21-9097-3 (N)
2) IBM System/36 Procedures and Commands Summary SC21-9024-2 (W)
SC21-9024-5 (W)
3) Getting Started with System/36 PC, SC21-9267-0 by SRA (D) (V)
Large format books:
1) 5364 System Unit Maint Info, System/36, SY31-9020-1 & 9027-0 (D)
(N)
2) Preparing to Install Your System 5364, IBM S/36 PC, SC21-9084-0 (D)
(N)
Setting Up Your Computer 5364, IBM S/36 PC, SA21-9505-0
Guide To Optional Equipment 5364, IBM S/36 PC, GX21-9817-1
3) Book Set - IBM S/36 PC System Support Prgramming, Configuration &
Sort ZC21-9148 (N)
4) Book Set - IBM S/36 PC Communications Features, Feature 6047,
ZC21-9155 (N) (D)
5) Book Set - IBM S/36 PC System Support Programming, 5727-SS6 Messages,
ZC21-9149 (N)
6) Book Set - IBM S/36 PC System Support Programming, 5727-SS6,
Operating Security,
ZC21-9147 (N)
7) Book Set - IBM S/36 PC Utilities, 5727-UT6, SDA/SEU/DFU, ZC21-9197
(N)
8) Book Set - IBM S/36 PC Utilities, 5727-UT6, WSU/Messages, ZC21-9198
9) Disk Set - IBM S/36 PC System Support Programming, 5727-SS6,
Diskettes, ZC21-9150
(N)(D) (40 +)
ALSO included: AST 5251/11 - IBM PC to System 34/36/38 Computer
Communications outfit. New, unused, in the box. Includes PC and
S/34/36/38 5.25 and 8" disks as well as the cable and interface unit for
the PC.
So there it is....The total weight of all the binders, pages, disks,
disk holders, etc is roughly 50 lbs. The 5251/11 enhanced S34/36/38 set
which is another 10 lbs. Can be packed in separate cartons or in one 60
lb box. One box is cheaper to ship, of course.
How much? $100 plus shipping for ALL the books and 5251/11 outfit plus
shipping. I've had a few serious inquiries but no definitive answer back
and I need the space. I paid $90 for this stuff myself so I'm making a
few bucks basically to cover my gas in running it to the shipping point
and my material in packing them. I don't mind getting this stuff to
redistribute to people that need it as I know this stuff is getting hard
to find. Otherwise you know where it would go.
First one to contact me and actually send a money order (after contact)
gets them. I'll need your zip code to figure shipping fees when you
contact me.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Russ Blakeman
RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144
Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991
Email: rhblake(a)bbtel.com or rhblake(a)bigfoot.com
Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/
ICQ # 1714857
* Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers*
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi All,
Has anyone had any experience with a Diamond D5 wordprocessor? Has
anyone even *heard* of such a beast?
One was donated to me a while ago after standing unused in a garage for
a few years - apparently it was working when it went into store.
However, nowadays if I put the system disk into the drive it seeks the
heads, spins a couple of times, then all goes silent.
There's no cursor or anything on the monitor, but having never seen the
machine working myself I don't know if it should display anything at all
before a successful boot completes.
Basically I'm after more information before I can seriously start
thinking about getting this thing going. Obviously I don't even know if
the system disks are still good, let alone what sort of hardware faults
exist inside...
thanks for *any* help with this thing!!
cheers
Jules
I have just bought an almost-new condition fully kitted out Dick Smith
System 80 - this was an Australian-sold clone of the TRS-80.
The system consists of a console with included tape player, an S-100
expansion box and two 200K 5.25" floppy drives. The receipt dated September
1982 was in one of the boxes (all original packing) along with all
connectors. The expansion box contains an extra 32K RAM (total 48K) and
connecting cables to the main system, the two drives (each one a separate
stock item, one "Disk 0" and the other "Disk 1") and to a Centronics
printer.
Price asked in a charity shop was $10 each for the two big boxes and $5 each
for the two drives. Not too bad, and you can't argue too much when the money
is going to a good cause! But absolutely no documentation.
The basic system works OK. What I want to know is how to connect up the
expansion box to the main box and the drives. The connecting cables are
standard flat multi-strand cable with the Pin 1 side marked in red. But
which is Pin 1 at the connection blocks? I don't want to kill this
beautifully clean unit by connecting it up backwards! If someone could tell
me which end of each of the connection blocks on the back of the console, on
the S-100 box and on the disk drives is the Pin 1 end, I would be grateful.
Phil
You might if you had been had by someone in this list. If the man is a con, I
think I am doing a public service here trying to stop him to strike again with
somebody else.
Thank you
enrico
lisard(a)zetnet.co.uk wrote:
>
> On 1998-04-07 classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu said to lisard(a)zetnet.co.uk
> :Warning! You might get something different from what you have
> :bidded for. I did.
>
> keep your bitching private. nobody else gives a toss.
> --
> Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling
> you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her...
--
========================================================
Enrico Tedeschi, 54 Easthill Drive, Brighton BN41 2FD, UK
Tel/fax(+01273) 701650 (24 hours) and 0498 692465 (mobile)
please visit my website at: <http://www.brighton-uk.com>
========================================================
This came off a web classifieds page:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
IBM SYSTEM/36 MODEL 5360, $100/OBO, Used
Description
MIDRANGE COMPUTER FULLY FUNCTIONAL WITH 5225 MODEL 2
PRINTER
For sale by private party
(718) 863-9651
fma
bronx, New York 10462
--
mor(a)crl.com
http://www.crl.com/~mor/
OK, I'm stumped. What are the switch setting for the 4-switch DIP switch
on the back of a RRD-40 drive? I managed to come up with a working
configuration, but how safe is SCSI address 0 under VMS? I know the
Hobbyist CD at least boots through the hardware search in Standalone backup
(didn't have time to install tonite). Also what's the 4th switch for?
Thanks,
Zane
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator |
| healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast |
| healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ |
| For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. |
| see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html |
I would note that I have already claimed these items, about a week ago, but
the Olivetti things are still available. Thanks, Sam, for the heads-up.
Cheers
A
-----Original Message-----
From: Sam Ismail <dastar(a)wco.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Wednesday, April 08, 1998 3:55 PM
Subject: (fwd) Obsolete computers looking for a home! (fwd)
>
>For you blokes down under.
>
>
>Plus, I have a number of Olivetti M24, M28, & M280 systems
>to get rid off, same deal.
For you blokes down under.
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: R.Alphey(a)forestry.unimelb.edu.au (Russell J. Alphey)
Newsgroups: comp.os.cpm,aus.computers
Subject: Obsolete computers looking for a home!
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 05:34:46 GMT
Organization: School of Forestry, University of Melbourne
It's time to clean up the spare room...
These computers are available, free to a good home. Note
that they are all in Melbourne, Australia. Shipping at
new owner's cost! :)
1. Labtam CP/M system, with 8086 processor board add-in.
Single 8" drive, with built-in monitor.
2. Micromation multiuser CP/M system. Has 4 processor boards,
plus serial terminals. 20 Mb hard drive, dual 8" drives, QIC-24
tape unit.
3. 2* ??? CP/M systems, monitors have WOODEN sides! Come with
processor unit, plus 2 * DISCUS 8" drives.
All systems come with boot disks.
Plus, I have a number of Olivetti M24, M28, & M280 systems
to get rid off, same deal.
Contact me by email to arrange something. I'm not going to
wait too long before "dumping" these machines...
R.
R.Alphey(a)forestry.unimelb.edu.au
-- end of forwarded message --
--
Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't blame me...I voted for Satan.
Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
At 01:04 AM 4/7/98 -0500, you wrote:
>I've held onto machines that I would've happily given away except for the
>time involved to go through the stuff on the hard disk and clean it up.
[...]
>What the world needs is a painless one button backup-and-clean program.
Or a belief that they can turn the machine over to a reputable
collector/museum who will do it for them.
--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-
Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/
At 01:25 AM 4/7/98 -0500, you wrote:
>> Except, that people may feel it's easier (and/or safer) to just destroy the
>> machine than it is to try and make sure no one can read their data. What
>
>It's rarely done, most people aren't that superstitious of electronic
machines.
Perhaps not in the past, but now that the average village idiot is using
quicken and tax programs... They may not have used Dad's imsai, but they
don't know that his old tax returns aren't in that old box.
>> I agree that people should be responsible for their own data, but I also
>> feel that we, as collectors, need to hold ourselves to a higher standard,
>> so that people will feel comfortable giving us their old machines.
>
>If they actually gave us the machines. Most times they're swapped or sold
cheaply.
Whether or not they give them for free or for $, they have to feel
comfortable doing it, or they won't do it.
>Bad similarity...no one is paying you for confidentiality.
Okay, surely you know someone to whom you don't tell anything personal
because you know it'll be all over the office/neighborhood/local news
within the hour. If people don't believe they can turn over their
computers without having to worry about their tax returns showing up on the
internet, they won't do it.
>> Most of the people here probably know how to wipe a hard drive so it can't
>> be read. (My best guess is a low-level format, then fill it with worthless
>> data? Good thing I have nothing to hide!) But the average AOL user
>> doesn't. When Grandpa passes on, you don't want the grandkids trashing all
>And many have had to use level 3 read/write data destruction if they've
worked for
>the government. If the goverment is required to insure a clean machine to the
>point of even installing a new hard disk prior to public sale, why should the
>average Joe be protected in his or her sloppy handling of their private
matters.
>If you get right down to it they risk public viewing just by installing
anything
>on the hard disk and connecting to the net.
I'm not advocating responsibility for the user's sake. If you care about
the neighbors seeing you nekkid, pull down the damn shades. The reason I
advocate it is because I don't want my neighbors boarding up their windows
because they don't know if pulling down the shades is enough.
I don't want people trashing significant machines because they heard about
someone who knew someone who had a friend who heard about someone who gave
a computer to a collector, and then those quickcam pics of the wife au
naturel (that he thought he deleted) ended up on the 'net. Whether or not
its true, and whether or not someone has pics like that, doesn't matter.
The technoidiots will trash machines rather than take any risks.
Don't believe me? Ever heard of the Good Times virus?
>Not more of the one, but a picture or two of each machine. I realize
you're just
>working on the site but a picture really makes the site interesting to
those not
>familiar with the machines. A prefect example is the dual drive on a
Rainbow. How
>many people can even grasp the thought of putting a floppy in right way in
one
>slot, upside down in the other?
I'm working on that. I've got 6 rolls of film to go to Price Club this
week. Then I have to scan them, edit/crop/resize them, build a list of the
pics (with dimensions and captions), come up with some snappy text, look
for some links, and dig up the specs of the machine so I can build the web
page. Whew. Don't worry, I'll get there. 8^)
--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-
Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/
>qty. 1 - Compaq Deskpro 386/20e - $20.00
>
>qty. 1 - Compaq Deskpro 433i - $30.00
OK... are either of these spoken for? Do you know the stats for these? How
much RAM, HDD (if any) space, disk drives, etc, and does that include a
monitor? (And, if you can find it, what is the video card, etc.)
Thanks,
Tim D. Hotze
<Well, I'm just thinking odd thoughts right now(specifically about
<converting a CB radio I have to the 10m amateur band), but if you can
If you need a hand I can help with that.
<figure out all the output voltages that the computer uses, than it
<shouldn't be too hard to either build several power supplies to handle th
<large amounts of power it needs, or perhaps re-wind the main power
<transformers(or just replace them with somethign that has the same output
<Which brings me to another thought, what IS the output voltage of the pow
<supply/transformer(s)? And of course, if the hard(and floppy) drive motor
<need 220v, you can also look for replacement motors that run on 110v.
<That's what I'm going to need to do for my Series/1.
Not that trivial as the system has a fair amount of pwer sequencing and
power good logic tied to the front panel and power system. besides where
to you find a 110Vac to 5V@ 30+amps floating around. That and any fans
and motors that may use 220v. THere is a lack of data on that and no way
to power it to determine if thats is the case.
Allison
This was on the Obsolete Computer helpline and I just knew someone here
could write this person to help...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
lucien stevens <lust(a)village.uunet.be>
belgium - Tuesday, April 07, 1998 at 15:52:57
i have a dec pdp11/53
can someone tell me how to connect an ascii terminal or a pc with a
terminal program to make the pdp11 work.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Russ Blakeman
RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144
Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991
Email: rhblake(a)bbtel.com or rhblake(a)bigfoot.com
Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/
ICQ # 1714857
* Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers*
--------------------------------------------------------------------
> -----Original Message-----
> From: J. Maynard Gelinas [mailto:maynard@jmg.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, April 07, 1998 2:06 PM
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
> Subject: Re: NOS Bare Boards: What to do?
>
> BTW: anyone remember a BYTE article on the SwTPC sometime in
> '78 regarding a very eary voice recognition and voice synth system
> connected to house controls? I seem to remember that the upshot of it
> was that it didn't work well and the poor author wound up showing off
> his undershorts because the system misrecognized a command and opened
> up the garage door at an inopportune time.... Maybe it was a Kilobaud
> issue???? I'm pretty hazy on this, but I remember it made a big
> impression on me as a kid.
Yes I remember the article (it was humor) because a friend asked if I
could build the same thing for him. I think it was Popular Electronics,
there were no tech details so I'm sure it wasn't BYTE or KILOBAUD.
Anyway, I was skeptical that it was real so I told my friend to contact
the author before I took any of his money. My friend contacted the
author for details. The author admitted he had embellished the
capabilities and the article was more fiction than fact, although
theoretically possible to do at the time.
Jack Peacock
I got to meet Max today and see the S34.
Nice machine is fair condition. His problem is that it's wired for 208
and from what I could observe all the transformer primaries are limited
to the 200V range (208/220/240). Can some one up on S34s confirm that?
All the power comes from three feroresonant transformers (CVTs) which
explains the 580v warning (across the resonating capacitor).
It would seem the only way to power it off 117v line is tansformer
of the 1000-2000va size. I suspect the smaller will work as this
machine while complete is not "loaded". It's biggest disk is an
internal 69mb 8" with what appears to be a DC spindle. Anyhow for
power it expects a single phase 208 L-L connection so a auto transformer
may do it.
It's been a while since I've seens linear regulators or possibly low
voltage switchers of this size.
Allison
<> > My favorite graph on the data sheet is "Number of pins remaining
<> > vs. number of socket insertions". (Wasn't this originally published
<> > in an April 1 issue of _Electronics_ in the 70's?)
<>
<> And the Vff .vs. Iff graph, complete with burn-out just after 6.3V....
<
<I wonder what fraction of new EE graduates today would recognize the
<significance of 6.3 VAC?
or 12.6vac or historically 12.6,12.6,12.6,35,50 (all Vac).
Allison
