I have had too many 3.5" disks go bad, some my own, some not, not
to ask why. I mean, is it just a property of 3.5" disks to be
unreliable, or is something else? Are there any "industrial quality"
drives/disks that are reasonably reliable?
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On Apr 13, 23:19, Tony Duell wrote:
> Seriously, I think you can justtify owning several of the same machine if
> the machines have expansion slots (like the Apple ][ or the PDP11) and
> you've got a lot of cards you want to play with. I'm pretty sure I've got
> far too many unibus cards (even with DB11 bus repeaters) for a single
> machine. And I wonder how useful 2 DX11's (I do mean DX11, not RX11) are
> on the same machine.
Isn't a DX11 an IBM channel interface? Originally a big cabinet with a lot of
flip chips and lamps? I've seen two, working.
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Dept. of Computer Science
University of York
> Wasn't there a Dennis Kitz speedup mod published in an old
> 80 Micro article? He wrote a _bunch_ of articles containing
> useful mods to the model 1... really an amazing guy. I wonder
> what happened to him.
Dennis is alive and well and may be contacted at bathory(a)maltedmedia.com.
Hello everyone,
Just a quick "Rescue Needed" announcement.
There is a VAX 11/750 available at WeirdStuff Warehouse in Sunnyvale,
CA. Most of you Bay Area classic computer enthusiasts probably know
where this place is. If not, visit http://www.weirdstuff.com/.
The 11/750 doesn't have any paripherals, nor any disk, but it does
appear to be fully populated with cards. Be the first one on your
block to own a classic, proper VAX!
Anyway, it's up for auction there. If I had infinite space and lots
of time, I'd go get it myself, but I don't :)
-Seth
Even if I had the room and time to pick up every machine that was
headed for the dump, what can I do with several dozen PC clones?
Same goes for other systems. It's interesting to have maybe a
couple, but not the "8 PDP 11/34, 22 Atari ST, 15 Apple ][" I hear.
>Well, not all of us have the time to work on every single system we get
>our hands on. There are only so many hours in the day left over after
>life stuff (ie. job, pets, family...) and this is just a side hobby for
>me. My concern first is to at least get the computers to prevent them
>from being disposed of and worry about getting them running later.
>
>> I collect for many reasons, amongst them :
>> 1) The fun and mental challenge of restoring/repairing them. Fault
>> finding can be interesting, you know
>
>I do it for the joy of being surrounded by such an ecclectic and
expansive
>collection of computers that span the innovation of two decades. When
I
>make enough money to relax for a couple months, I'll have fun restoring
>and repairing them.
>
>> 2) Finding out what the machines I grew up dreaming of were really
like.
>> And the machines that came before them. I could never afford them
when
>> new, now I can play with them
>
>Same here.
>
>> 4) Tracing the history of certain features. To take a trivial
example,
>> IOBYTE at location 3 on CP/M can be traced back to the Intellec
MCS8i. It
>> was at location 3 on that machine (with the same format of 4 2-bit
>> fields) as locations 0-2 were reserved for the reset jump
instruction, so
>> this was the first free RAM location.
>
>This is not only fun, but in my view, relevant. These are the sorts of
>tidbits that, in my nerdy opion, would make a fascinating book: where
all
>the standards came from.
>
>> I won't claim I run all my 150+ machines all the time. I have a few
that
>> I run quite often (the PDP11/45, the PDP8/e, the PERQ 2, a TRS-80 M4,
>> this PC/AT, etc). Others I only run from time to time when I need
them.
>> But I do try to have all my machines operational if at all possible.
>
>That's commendable, but there's not a lot of need on my end to have
>everything running. There's a desire, but not a need. When my
collection
>goes on display, it will be desirable to have at least one of
everything
>in the collection working with usable software so that people studying
the
>artifact can get a better understanding of it.
>
>Sam Alternate e-mail:
dastar(a)siconic.com
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Don't blame me...I voted for Satan.
>
> Coming in September...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
> See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
> [Last web page update: 04/08/98]
>
>
______________________________________________________
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<backplane. It's missing box/PSU and floppy, though, so it's not terribl
<functional ATM. I'm sure someone has built something even smaller with
<Falcon or similar.
I've seen a 11/23, RQDX3, 512k ram, dlv11j(4 serial) and a mrv11 in a
custom box using a RX50 and a 3.5"MFM 40meg disk that was quite small!
The backplane was 6 dual slots. Smaller than than a PC minitower.
Qbus PDP-11 systems can be quite small if non dec boxes are used.
Allison
<Actually, the PDT 11/150 ran quite well once they came out. I ran one fo
<three years under RT11 with FB and multiterminal support. It's biggest
<problem was comm overruns/underruns because the I/O was all handled by a
<8080 (or was it an 8085). The 11/130 used DECtapes and the 11/110 was
<downloaded.
It used an 8085, and the manual stated the limits of the serial ports.
However if the correct handshake was used it could run pretty fast.
<The biggest problem with the PDT was the price, the fact it was not
<easily expandable by third parties (no Qbus) and slow.
Such was the ways of DEC at the time. Then again what would be added?
<DEC repeated some of the same mistakes in the PC line in the 80's. (no
<QBUS on the Pro, special i/o drivers, non-standard OS version).
The pro used a better form factor than Qbus, otherwise it would have been
huge. If you needed Q there was always the ba11 series boxen. POS on the
other hand was strange.
Allison
<There was a small PDP-11 about the size of a MicroVax 2000. It was
<called the PDT. It had an 11/03 CPU, 64KB, 8" floppy (RX01), and some
It was about twice the size of the VS2000. I have one.
As to static sensitivity mine is quite good and most I know of didn't
have a heat problem. What I have encounterd was system with the fans
replaced with quieter low volume fans that didn't do the job.
Allison
Does anyone know William Donzelli's e-mail address?
Donzelli, are you out there?
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>I am much more bothered by conmans (read my other reply here). I collect
for
>the historical inportance and for the history of design of old electronics
and
>for what they meant in the lives of millions of persons. I don't even care
if
>something is working or not. It is going to end up behing glass anyway. I
I find you sick. Very sick. Keep computers functional, working, cosmetics
should come second. I'm sure that we could find a TRS-80 model 1 CASE
somewhere for you.
>can't possibly USE the more than 140 historical computer I have in my
YES YOU COULD.
>collection and don't even switch them on. I don't collect them for making
them
>work but to display them and help to teach children and people about their
>importance in the hsitory of humanity. The appearance is (nearly)
everything
>to me and so a mumeric keypad where it should not be is a GREAT bother to
me.
So what the hell are you bitching about? You got what you asked for, and
now, it's not a great bother to you. So what the %$&( if it's got a
numeric keypad? It's not a GREAT bother to you, but you've been a GREAT
bother to Cord and everyone else on the list.
Tim D. Hotze
> I've seen a small MicroVAX, but was there a small portable PDP-11?
There was a small PDP-11 about the size of a MicroVax 2000. It was
called the PDT. It had an 11/03 CPU, 64KB, 8" floppy (RX01), and some
serial ports. RT-11 was the only supported OS as the floppy took a
special driver. It was a real lemon, we had a few, proved to be very
unreliable as they would constantly overheat. They were also
susceptible to static discharge on the case, so they didn't work too
well in carpeted offices.
Jack Peacock
Enrico Tedeschi <e.tedeschi(a)ndirect.co.uk> wrote:
>I can't believe that all this is happening and that there are no honest people
>in this list that are letting this happen withour saying anything.
OK Enrico, you asked for it. I'm going to say something.
The recollection I have of what happened (from reading the original
flamefest on the list) is that you and Cord were swapping computers,
with you expecting a TRS-80 with Level I BASIC. And that is what you
got, only when you got it you found that it had a numeric keypad,
unlike the original stock TRS-80. So...no, I don't understand what
you're so upset about, except that you got something that didn't look
like what you expected based on your preconceived notions of what a
"TRS-80 with Level I BASIC" should look like.
Well, as it happens I don't know whether Radio Shack ever took to
manufacturing all Model 1 TRS-80s with numeric keypads after some
date, or whether the numeric keypad was included with the Level II
BASIC upgrade (don't think so, at least not always), or whether it was
available without a Level II BASIC upgrade. So I'd have been
surprised by that keypad too, but for all I know it could have come
>from the factory like that or been upgraded by its original owner, who
wanted to do lots of numeric data entry on a Level I BASIC system.
Really I think there's a valuable lesson to be learned here, namely
when trading in old computers it's a good idea to do some research and
have some idea what the scope of possible configurations is, so that
if you are buying you will have some idea what sort of questions to
ask to find out just what the seller is selling. Or if you are
selling, so you will have some idea of what you are selling.
Don't count on the seller knowing what's important to you, or even
where what he's got fits in that scope of configurations -- he may
not. Even if he's another computer collector and/or familiar with
that manufacturer's equipment, he may not know -- the sorts of
questions I read (and even some of those I write) tell me that most of
us have a lot to learn about these old machines, and none of us know
everything about all of them.
And even with all that in mind, expect some surprises!
For example, a while back I bought a couple of HP 9825s from some guy
in Southern California. Looking at the HP Calculator Museum web pages
and some of my old HP test/measurement catalogs, I expected that one
of them (the 9825B I think) would have a "computer" keyboard with
full-travel keys. I didn't bother asking. Surprise, when it arrived
both had the older clicky desktop-calculator keyboard of the 9825A. I
pointed this out to the seller and he didn't know, though he has seen
9825s with the full-travel keys. Maybe it was an A that got
field-upgraded to a B? We don't know, and I didn't really see any
point in getting bent out of shape about it -- I got what I wanted,
learned something, and now I have a good excuse to get another one!
-Frank McConnell
Doug Yowza <yowza(a)yowza.com> wrote:
>Which one is that? I remember the Teraks being fairly small, and I think
>I've seen a small MicroVAX, but was there a small portable PDP-11?
The Terak main unit is about 18" x 12" x 8" DxWxH, the disk drive is the
same form but about 5 1/2" tall. I remember DEC's MiniMINC, a white
11/03-ish machine roughly the same size as the Terak setup.
- John
Jefferson Computer Museum <http://www.threedee.com/jcm>
On Apr 13, 0:06, Allison J Parent wrote:
> <Which one is that? I remember the Teraks being fairly small, and I thin
> <I've seen a small MicroVAX, but was there a small portable PDP-11?
>
> I have an 11/23, 256k ram, dlv11j and MRV11 in a ba11va shoebox.
> The floppy (RX02) is about 4 times the volume of the CPU!
General Robotics made a single 8" RX02-compatible floppy in a box barely bigger
than the drive itself, complete with carrying handle. A company I once worked
for had one for field servoids. AFAIR it was a standard SA800 50-pin interface
to connect to their own dual-height RXV controller.
I've got an 11/03 (M7270) with MXV11-A and a Baydel dual-height F311 (like an
RXV11, but interfaces to SA800 drives) with a 4-slot dual-width (not quad)
backplane. It's missing box/PSU and floppy, though, so it's not terribly
functional ATM. I'm sure someone has built something even smaller with a
Falcon or similar.
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Dept. of Computer Science
University of York
The Photo Gallery is now open on the Vintage Computer Festival web page.
Photos from the exhibit hall of VCF 1.0 as well as the photos of the
unveiling of the prototype Sol 20 by Lee Felsenstein and Bob Marsh are on
display. The pictures show what VCF 1.0 was like and give you an
indicator of what to expect at VCF2.
Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't blame me...I voted for Satan.
Coming in September...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
[Last web page update: 04/13/98]
In a message dated 98-04-12 19:13:50 EDT, you write:
<< Max Eskin wrote:
> I have had too many 3.5" disks go bad, some my own, some not, not
> to ask why. I mean, is it just a property of 3.5" disks to be
> unreliable, or is something else? Are there any "industrial quality"
> drives/disks that are reasonably reliable? >>
grrr, i hate 3.5 disks! they seem unreliable. i have software on old 5.25
disks that have lasted longer than data on 1.44 floppies. could it be the
density of the data on the disk that makes them unreliable? just a guess.
david
Greets:
I have a customer that is looking for a modem for his Apple ][gs.
Admittadly, I don't know a whole lot about this area and some posts
in the newsgroups haven't turned up much either. Anyway, I am
wondering if some of you Apple experts could give me some more
information on the types of modems available for the GS and any other
pertinent information... such as, what type of interface is needed,
software to use on the GS (terminal, etc.) and anything else you feel
like throwing in.
Also, I have several old Hayes 2400 baud external modems.... would
these be compatible with the Apple ][gs? What else would I need to
get this modem setup on that system?
Any help in getting this guy set up would be appreciated.
Sincerely,
CORD COSLOR
--
___________________________________________________
| Cord G. Coslor : archive(a)navix.net |\
| Deanna S. Wynn : deannasue(a)navix.net | |
|---------------------------------------------------| |
| http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/4395 | |
|---------------------------------------------------| |
| PO Box 308 - Peru, NE - 68421 - (402) 872- 3272 | |
|___________________________________________________| |
\____________________________________________________\|
<Which one is that? I remember the Teraks being fairly small, and I thin
<I've seen a small MicroVAX, but was there a small portable PDP-11?
I have an 11/23, 256k ram, dlv11j and MRV11 in a ba11va shoebox. that's
a 11x13x4 inch box with 4 dual slots. I use it with a tu58 dectape in
a box of the same size small and light system running rt11. Often the
same box can be found with a 11/2, two MXV11 nultifunction cards and a
RX02 controller. The floppy (RX02) is about 4 times the volume of the
CPU!
Allison
Please everyone, do not echo that nasty subject line.
<IIRC, the Tandy modifications were the L2 basic board, 16K RAM, Numeric
<keypad, and the lower case mod. All others were 3rd party. I could make a
<slight case that 3rd party mods are slightly less original, but I'm not
<going to press the point. I don't think Tandy ever offered a *2 speedup.
The *2 speed up was not RS, however the concession was that machine
modified with those in for repair would be serviced at normal rates if
the mod was unrelated to the problem. If a new logic was required do to
extensive damage the pricing was different (expensive).
<They may well have offered various fixes to the cassette interface - I
<don't know.
They did! The best one was a little board with a 4040/4001 on it.
<There were many 3rd party mods. I've seen a M1 with 48K RAM in the
<keyboard unit. I've even seen one (much hacked) power up with a CASS?
<prompt. Yes, it was running M3 BASIC.
there were some rally nice mods too.
Allison
Wanted:
I have an Okidata Okimate 20 that presently has a Commodore
"plug-n-print" interface in it and I'm in need of the IBM/Centronics
"plug-n-print" interface for it. If someone has an IBM fitted Oki 20 but
wants a Commodore interface (not likely) I'd like to evenly swap
interfaces or if someone has just an interface for it for IBM I'd like
to trade them something or buy it directly.
Anyone? I need this for use with my portable PS/2 P70 when I go on jobs
or such and need to print things of importance.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Russ Blakeman
RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144
Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991
Email: rhblake(a)bbtel.com or rhblake(a)bigfoot.com
Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/
ICQ # 1714857
* Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers*
--------------------------------------------------------------------
<Hmmm... No flmes intended (and I hope we can agree to differ on this),
Same here. Of the 25+ machines in my room all are operable at a moments
notice some requiring being pluged in or a terminal plugged in.
<but I really can't see the point in collecting non-working computers _and
<keeping them that way_. Sure I get a lot of non-working machines, but the
<first thing I do is attempt to find a technical manual or scheamatic and
<repair them. Working machines are a lot more interesting. The case
Same here. Though I do have some that while now are working and stored
SBCs are less interesting to others. But a non-working system when
aquired is always tested, fixed if possible then I decide if I care to
have it in a location for easy use and access. If not I tend to pull it
out and periodically run it to insure it stays operable.
<I collect for many reasons, amongst them :
<
<1) The fun and mental challenge of restoring/repairing them. Fault
<finding can be interesting, you know
Same here, good mental exercise and what I learn can help others.
<2) Finding out what the machines I grew up dreaming of were really like.
<And the machines that came before them. I could never afford them when
<new, now I can play with them
Big time! Some were way out of my reach back when.
<3) Doing things that you can't do on a modern machine. Many classics,
<even minicomputers nd workstations are simple enough to understand
<completely. It's fun to rewrite microcode. It's fun to trace data through
<an ALU into the registers using a logic probe and 'scope. It's fun to
<debug a floppy controller at gate level. And it's fun to boot a machine
<from paper tape after toggling in the bootstrap from the panel
I'll add that some of my older machines are working hardware in that they
support a project or run software that I've not duplicated on the PC for
performance or usability.
<4) Tracing the history of certain features. To take a trivial example,
<IOBYTE at location 3 on CP/M can be traced back to the Intellec MCS8i. It
<was at location 3 on that machine (with the same format of 4 2-bit
<fields) as locations 0-2 were reserved for the reset jump instruction, so
<this was the first free RAM location.
Or interfaces like SCSI when it was SASI. Or 8" floppies.
Allison
<I have had too many 3.5" disks go bad, some my own, some not, not
<to ask why. I mean, is it just a property of 3.5" disks to be
<unreliable, or is something else? Are there any "industrial quality"
<drives/disks that are reasonably reliable?
It's something your doing as I've found 3.5" media to be about as
reliable as I can ask for meaning they are amoung the best. Then
again I also have 20year old 8" media that's still in use. There is no
such thing as industrial strength drives or media.
Heat and dirt are the biggest killers. All my systems use sony or teac
drive as they are a bit better constructed and were available. However I
ahve a 19$ drive that has been in use for about five years and refuses to
quit! Im not timid about blowing out the dust and cleaning vents either!
Allison
