OK.. because I'm moving to Georgetown, Guyana, I'm using this e-mail
address to keep in contact while I'm moving. So, until June, the other one
will still be active, but in the mean time, try to send messages to
photze(a)batelco.com.bh and worldsfate(a)geocities.com .
I'm not subscribed to this list with this e-mail address, but I'll get
ClassicCmp with the other one.
Ciao,
Tim D. Hotze
---------------------------------------------------
*Tim D. Hotze Co-Founder, The Review Guide *
*http://members.theglobe.com/ReviewGuide/index.htm*
*Panel Member, The Ultimate Web Host List *
---------------------------------------------------
This is really for Sam, but I think it's worth posting to the list.
> The first speaker has been confirmed for VCF2 this September.
Does this mean you have firm dates yet? I'd like to book flights, time
off work, etc. as soon as I can...
> David Rutland was an engineer on a lesser known but very significant
> computer dedicated in 1950 called the SWAC (National Bureau of Standards
> Western Automatic Computer).
Sounds fun!
It occurs to me that I gave a small talk on the Tek 4050 series last
autumn (fall). I'd like to come to the VCF, and I could probably bring
my 4052 and some demo programs, and give an adapted version of the talk
(either in a scheduled slot or probably more suitably on a demo stand
with the machine).
Finally, Sam, could you put me on the VCF mailing list, please. I tried
to subscribe from the web page but we've just migrated to Lusedoze Not
Tolerable and Internut Exploder, with the result that I couldn't get it
to work...
Philip.
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Philip Belben <><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Bloedem Volke unverstaendlich treiben wir des Lebens Spiel.
Grade das, was unabwendlich fruchtet unserm Spott als Ziel.
Magst es Kinder-Rache nennen an des Daseins tiefem Ernst;
Wirst das Leben besser kennen, wenn du uns verstehen lernst.
Poem by Christian Morgenstern - Message by Philip.Belben(a)powertech.co.uk
<> I do not think the Cray-1s used 10K ECL - I believe they were custom pa
<> and were faster (10K gates have a delay around 2 nS). Only four types o
<> chips were used in the whole beast - I think two were OR/NOR gates, one
<> was a flip-flop, and the other RAM.
Thay may have been custom but the "generation" of ECL is 10k and that
refer to parts but also a performance level.
Allison
I can't remember who mentioned they had a 1611A without probes, but I
checked it out in the lab today.
The pod with the ZIF socket and Z80 clip does have a little "stuff" in it,
but the "ordinary" microprobes are simply buffered by a little box
containing a pair of 8T37 buffers and a few decoupling capacitors. This
box is connected by a plain ribbon cable to a connector on the 1611A. If
you need to know the connections/layout, I'm sure it would be easy to
reverse-engineer.
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Dept. of Computer Science
University of York
At 11:08 AM 4/24/98 -0400, you wrote:
>Kip, is that magazine online anywhere? I haven't heard of it myself.
>
>Sounds like you are refering us to a rather interesting read!
Try <http://www.chac.org/>. It's the official publication of the Computer
History Assn of California. I'm pretty sure it is on-line (though I
haven't actually checked myself.)
>Anybody who's got a better handle on the present population of minis and
>mainframes still in service want to give an opinion on this?
Well, I'm currently working with Long's Drugs (pharmacy chain in the
western US). They have 352 (353 this weekend) stores and each one has an
HP 3000 in it.
--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-
Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/
If this is the same University of Washington that hosts classiccmp... it's
likely that Bill Whitson would have gotten them before any of us even had a
crack at 'em. Possibly before the surplus people even got 'em, so there
would be no record... vaguely, I mean VAGUELY I remember something about him
getting Teraks... but I could have been dreaming.
Tim D. Hotze
-----Original Message-----
From: John Foust <jfoust(a)threedee.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Wednesday, April 29, 1998 6:17 PM
Subject: Re: University of Washington surplus sale?
>I wrote:
>>I found a somewhat stale lead (last November) on three or four
>>Terak computers that were sold at the monthly University of Washington
>>surplus sale. Is there anyone on the list familiar with this sale?
>
>And then several people posted "tell me more". All I know is
>I found a mention via a search engine of three Teraks that were
>about to be tossed to their surplus center, and when I called
>the surplus center (University Surplus Property Warehouse, 206-685-1573)
>they said they auction 60-70 pallets of computers each month, so
>they had no recollection of these Teraks. Someone in the UW area
>must've got them! I hope they're not dumpstered. I also hold a
>slim hope that they weren't sold, and are still for sale.
>
>See my web site for an image of a Terak. Find them and send
>them to me. :-)
>
>- John
>Jefferson Computer Museum <http://www.threedee.com/jcm>
>
I wrote:
>I found a somewhat stale lead (last November) on three or four
>Terak computers that were sold at the monthly University of Washington
>surplus sale. Is there anyone on the list familiar with this sale?
And then several people posted "tell me more". All I know is
I found a mention via a search engine of three Teraks that were
about to be tossed to their surplus center, and when I called
the surplus center (University Surplus Property Warehouse, 206-685-1573)
they said they auction 60-70 pallets of computers each month, so
they had no recollection of these Teraks. Someone in the UW area
must've got them! I hope they're not dumpstered. I also hold a
slim hope that they weren't sold, and are still for sale.
See my web site for an image of a Terak. Find them and send
them to me. :-)
- John
Jefferson Computer Museum <http://www.threedee.com/jcm>
Doug Yowza <yowza(a)yowza.com> writes:
> PING xkleten.paulallen.com (204.202.80.66): 56 data bytes
> 64 bytes from 204.202.80.66: icmp_seq=0 ttl=37 time=114.4 ms
Hmm, last night (before I wrote that) I was having difficulty resolving
the host name. This morning it seems to be OK.
> I don't have an account there (Mr. Allen ignored my request (I guess he is
> pretty smart after all)), but telnet seems to work fine.
I didn't bother to ask when I saw the announcement -- no time to dink
with it then and no good idea what I would do with it except log in and
look around. Well, I guess I've found a solution to that latter part,
now if I could just do something about the former.
-Frank McConnell
OK.. Manney has one, but hasn't gotten back to me on it yet. So anyway,
here's the deal: I'm moving this summer, and so I need to stay online.
(Yes, NEED, as I'm a panel member for http://www.webhostlist.com , so I NEED
to stay connected.)
So anyway, what I need is a laptop, or a hand held, that has TCP/IP
stacks and a graphical interface for it (so that could be a 386 or later, or
a newton, Mac, or anything else...)
Oh, and this is intended to be a REALLY low cost thingy...
Tim D. Hotze
Hi. After getting a new M Board for my XT and a load of cards, I found that
my Power Supply's now completely dead. So, where to I start? No fan, moves
a turn or two, I know that the power connections good.
Thanks,
Tim D. Hotze
"Daniel A. Seagraves" <DSEAGRAV(a)toad.xkl.com> wrote:
> I can't seem to get ahold of it anymore, was it decomissioned or something?
Hmm. Did you find out anything more about this?
I found a copy of _Introduction to DECSYSTEM-20 Assembly Language
Programming_ (by Ralph E. Gorin, 1981, published by Digital Press,
ISBN 0-932376-12-6) and was thinking that this was good timing because
I might actually be able to do the homework on, well, something like a
-10. In my dreams^H^H^H^H^H^Hcopious free time, of course.
Other books found:
_Man and the Computer_, John G. Kemeny, 1972, Scribners,
SBN 684-13043-2
_PCC's Reference Book of Personal and Home Computing_,
Dwight McCabe (ed.), 1977, PCC, ISBN 0-918790-02-6
_Varian Data 620/i System Reference Manual_, Rev C, March 1969
_The BYTE Book of Pascal_, Blaise W. Liffick (ed.), 1979,
BYTE Books, ISBN 0-07-037823-1
_An Introduction to Algorithmic Methods Using the MAD Language_,
Alan B. Marcovitz and Earl J. Schweppe, 1966, Macmillan, LCCN
66-27676
_The APL Handbook of Techniques_, compiled by DP Scientific Marketing,
1978, IBM S320-5996-0
IBM Proprinter Technical Reference, April 1985, p/n 6328947
_Computer Graphics Techniques and Applications_, R. D. Parslow,
R. W. Prowse, R. Elliot Green (eds.), 1969, Plenum, LCCN 68-58992
_Intel Microcomputer Systems Data Book_, 1977
-Frank McConnell
I seem to recall reading somewhere (BYTE ~1985 ?) that Soviet made CPUs
(6502 clones?) were so poorly maid that they individually came with a
list of which instuctions worked and which didn't. Also seem to recall
an article on the soviet Apple ][ clone of the time (CPU on a large
daughterboard, pirated ROM, cost approx US $20,000)
-Matt Pritchard
Graphics Engine and Optimization Specialist
MS Age of Empires & Age of Empires ][
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Hotze [SMTP:photze@batelco.com.bh]
> Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 1998 12:15 PM
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
> Subject: The PC's Soviet?
>
> OK... I was talking to a Ukranian programmer, who told me that in 1968
> the
> PC was invented, not far from where he worked in Ukrane. Now, that's
> 4
> years before the microprocessor, but is it possible?
> And this guy might be dilusional, he's VERY communist, but then
> again,
> at base, so am I, but with a democratic twist. Anyway, what's the
> story
> behind this?
> Thanks,
>
> Tim D. Hotze
At 04:41 AM 4/22/98 -0400, you wrote:
>
>On Wed, 15 Apr 1998, Joe wrote:
>
>> >Also seem to recall
>> >an article on the soviet Apple ][ clone of the time (CPU on a large
>> >daughterboard, pirated ROM, cost approx US $20,000)
>>
>> I remember that article. The entire motherboard was pirated! Not just
>> the ROM. The tops of the ICs had been ground off to hide the fact that they
>> were US made parts.
>
>How do we know that the $20,000 wasn't the cost of shipping the pirate
>motherboards to the Soviet Union from Canada, via Cuba? ;)
>
>Was it not the same in the States, with regards to Apple clones, as it was
>in Canada in the early 80s?
Sure it was. The Franklins were probably the best known Apple rip-offs
^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H er ah, clones. At least until Apple sued them and
Franklin had to actually design their own machines.
>So the Soviets pirated the Apple ][, who didn't?
But you missed the point. No other >COUNTRY< tried to pass off a pirated
machine as their own. In fact, most cloners (pirates?) bragged about their
similarity to the original machine, the Soviets claimed that their machine
was an original design. To top it all off, they didn't even have the good
sense to change the copywrite notice!
>Maybe I should start collecting Apple clones, seeing as I see them more
>frequently than actual Apples (clones were more affordable).
That would probably be a pretty big collection just by itself!
Joe
<From: Doug Yowza <yowza(a)yowza.com>
<and is populated rather sparsely by chips with date codes from '80 and
<'81. The chips seem to be from Fairchild primarily (the 32 F10470's loo
<like they might be RAM). From Mr. Cole's "limited edition" markings, I
<gather that there were 400 of these boards in his Cray-1.
The Cray-1 was ECL-10k fast for it's time but low density and rams for
that technology were 1 or 4k ECL bipolar. ECL had several
characteristics, FAST, high power consumption and low density. The
copper plate worked with a cooling system to conduct the heat away as
that machine was impossible to air cool and remain that small. Why
small? Conductors propagate singnals at 1nS a foot and a cable of several
feet actually represented a significant delay to the overall sheme of
things inside.
A note: The other commonly known and slightly more recent ECL machine
was the DEC VAX9000, built using ECL-100k built on custom air cooled
hybrids. It also consumed power in great quantities and had special
cooling considerations.
<Any idea how much RAM is on the board? Can I interface the board to my
<Sinclair ZX-81 to create the world's most perverse hybrid?
Your could but the interface would be more than the two combined and it
would eat an amazing amount of power.
Allison
The DHV 11 manual and the programming card have both been claimed. Given
that the hardware is on hold, that completes this run of freebies.
Thanks to all for your interest.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272)
(Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin(a)jps.net)
"Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own
human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..."
I've acquired a Amiga 1000 with monitor, mouse, scsi sidecar that try's
to boot up, but after booting kickstart, it asks for the Workbench 1.2
disk. My disk seems to be defective because the drive cycles and the
picture of the workbench disk comes back up. Does anyone out there have
a copy?
James
Is the reason those old radio/phonograph boxes are not being thrown
away is that noone notice the cover and thinks it's just a pretty
dresser w/o drawers :)? Also hideaway sewing machines.
I do see many of them in thrift stores, though. It was a good idea,
to keep technology invisible. Now, it's the other way around.
Cover EVERYthing with black and beige boxes.
Of course, the System/36 (I think, maybe not) was built into a desk.
And then there were the teletypes (are the ones that are mostly used
as examples of teletypes ASR-33?), printers, etc.
>> S/360s are very rare (thousands made, maybe a dozen left).
>
>So the moral of the story is that manufacturers should build furniture
>into their computer systems, so when the computer is obsolete, the
system
>will live on as furniture. :-)
>
>-- Doug
>
>
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
I found this on E-bay. The minimum bid is $45. If you think this is too
much (I do!!), you can contact the owner and see if he'll take less if it
doesn't sell. The URL is
"http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=12277630".
Description
GRID 8088 XT Laptop. Rugged Construction. 720k FDD, No HDD, 512k Mem,
SER/PAR, Plasma Screen, AC Adapter Module substitutes battery. Works
Perfectly. Good for diagnostics, automotive, marine, etc. Excellent
condition. Buyer prepays with money order or check and pays shipping.
Joe
On Apr 26, 19:19, Olminkhof wrote:
> Subject: Logic State Analyser
> I have been rearranging my storage area and uncovered a HP 1611A Logic
> State Analyser fitted with a Z80 option that I picked up a few years ago.
>
> I have no idea what one would do with this. Should I cherish it? Play
with
> it?
> Does one need the specific manual or are these generic and perhaps
> explained in standard texts?
>
> There are a number of plugin points for various types of probes, none of
> which I have off course. It powers up fine though.
AFAIR the ordinary probes are just micro-hooks on single wires, which plug
into a little distribution box on the end of a ribbon cable.
It's quite a nice analyser, so "play with it" gets my vote. It was also
quite popular, so I expect you could find manuals if you look/ask around.
I'm sure we have some 1611s or 1610s in the labs. If you want me to take
a look at them next week, shout. There's also a description of both
models, and several examples of use, in John Lenk's book "How To
Troubleshoot And Repair Microcomputers" -- which IMHO isn't a very good
book, but there seem to be lots of old copies of it about, and in
libraries.
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Dept. of Computer Science
University of York
Interesting. I was in the library today, and I happened to glance
on the back of a VT-220 they had. I thought it was video, because of
the icon, but then I said to my friend, "Cool! It can do ethernet!"
>of collisions and other strange things. Looked like one of the
computers
>on it had gone crazy and was jabbering, but turning off one machine at
a
>time didn't help things.
>
>OK, time to grab a 'scope. What on earth was that? It looks like
>composite video. It _is_ composite video. OK, time to trace the cable.
>You guessed it. Some luser had plugged a spare t-piece on the thinwire
>segment onto the back of a VT220.
>
>I can't remember what LART I used ;-)
>
>
>> Jack Peacock
>>
>
>-tony
>
>
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
[Stopping thinnet with a 3270 card...]
I once heard of a manager of some sort plugging thinnet into the back
of a VT220 (?It was VTsomething...?) video-out port. Seems he thought
it was one of those network computer deals...
VT220s had a video out BNC connector. You could drive a monitor with
it, but wasn't very useful plugged into a coax Ethernet cable.
Jack Peacock
I found a somewhat stale lead (last November) on three or four
Terak computers that were sold at the monthly University of Washington
surplus sale. Is there anyone on the list familiar with this sale?
- John
Jefferson Computer Museum <http://www.threedee.com/jcm>
For anyone that's interested or just tired of the ads for them, all the
previously advertised test equipment has been spoken for. Thanks for
putting up with the messages.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
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RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144
Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991
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* Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers*
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Allison wrote:
>The Cray-1 was ECL-10k fast for it's time but low density and rams for
>that technology were 1 or 4k ECL bipolar. ECL had several
>characteristics, FAST, high power consumption and low density.
Excuse my ignorance, what does ECL stand for?
Hans
<I once heard of a manager of some sort plugging thinnet into the back
<of a VT220 (?It was VTsomething...?) video-out port. Seems he thought
<it was one of those network computer deals...
<[Networked computers will be OK. It means all the terminals get run fro
< some large computer off somewhere else. Does this sound familiar?
Yes, happend at DEC sometimes. DEC had VAXmate (AT class) machine that
was netbootable and could do file sharing via eithernet. There were also
X-terminals (DECmindows) that used the net for both the hookup and loading
operating software.
Allison
