test-drb

test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

101090 discussions

by ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk

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27 years, 12 months

Prototype Apple //c found

by fmc＠reanimators.org

Sam Ismail <dastar(a)wco.com> wrote: > Was "TERI" the codename for the Apple //c? Moby. At least that's what I get from this book I got turned onto: _AppleDesign: The Work of the Apple Industrial Design Group_, by Paul Kunkel, photos by Rick English, ISBN 1-888001-25-9, published by Graphis, 1997. Mini-review: |<00|_ pictures of computers and concept models and other things. Emphasis is on industrial design, not technology. The text is marred by typos and an overall feeling that the author thinks Apple and those responsible are just too cool for words. Maybe they are. Or maybe it's just that I've had enough of dealing with PC-contemptibles with funny disk-drive rails and the like that I'm not real tolerant of k00l kasewerk any more. They sure are pretty pictures, though.... -Frank McConnell

27 years, 12 months

Support for obsolete products

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

I would also recommend that if you come across a company that helps with old systems like the story about the tape drive, be sure to let the company know their help is appreciated. hopefully that will still give them an incentive to continue to offer help. david

27 years, 12 months

Definition of an Analog(ue) Computer

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<altering the computer (machine) is that there is a definite distinction <between the circuitry to drive the logic unit (CPU) and the circuitry <which defines the stored program (code). So while a masked ROM cannot b <altered, you can swap out the ROM with a new ROM with a completely <different set of instructions, while the rest of the circuitry which <executes the code remains unmodified. Apply that to the 8048 or other single chip mcu. <digital computers and not analogue. I think the murky area being argued <here is strictly pertaining to analog computers since it is indeed a <series of filters and amplifiers combined to manipulate analog signals. <digital computer is something quite different, and I think quite easy to <define. Thats the point. Many exceedingly simple looking analogue systems perform what would take a fairly complex digital system to simulate.

27 years, 12 months

[Again!] New toy! Digital camera! Wanna see my pile?

by DSEAGRAV＠toad.xkl.com

Second try, doesn't look like the first one made it through. School bought a digital camera, and I get to play with it... I'll be posting pictures of my 11/44 Pile (GALAXIA) at http://linux.epchs.k12.il.us/dseagrav Go take a look! -------

27 years, 12 months

Microsoft BASIC 80 non-disclosure agreement

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 11:14 PM 5/5/98 +0100, you wrote: >When I call Tech Support I will have made some attempts to check the >obvious, gather evidence, and solve the problem. In particular : > >I'll have checked the 'bleeding obvious' - that it's plugged in, that I >am running the program I think I am running, etc Ah, but you are (especially for mainstream stuff) reasonably rare. The average I-bought-my-computer-at-circuit-city-and-got-a-free-hair-dryer idiot has done none of that. Most likely, he's tripped over the power cord and unplugged it, or tried to install a pirated game that had a virus and his hd is toast or... Which does, I agree, present a problem for those of us who *do* know what we're doing. There's nothing I hate more than having some nitwit read the manual to me. (Unless, of course, I'm calling because I don't have the manual.) Dunno if there's a solution. I try to find a knowledgeable support person for software/hardware I use a lot and make sure they know who I am and that I'm not a git. >I'll be sitting in front of my machine with a 'scope, logic analyser, >software debugger, etc at the ready "you're out there, man, like f***ing pluto." 8^) >IBM are better than most, at least for providing parts/manuals. They may >claim that a machine never existed (IBM UK told be there was 'no such >thing as a PC-jr'), but they can often find all sorts of things given a >part number or forms number. IBM does seem to be pretty good. I requested info about a couple of "PC-Radio's" I picked up, and got back a lot of info (albeit badly formatted. 8^) >Sending in bug reports (and even better, fixes) for ancient products is >great fun :-). I would think calling would be better still. 8^) >> And DON'T COPY ANY SOFTWARE. I don't even care if it was made by a >> criminal, it gives you no right to do the same. Yep. Fastest way to put a company out of business is to steal their product. Hmmm... Anyone want a copy of Microsoft Office? 8^) (JUST KIDDING!!!) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 12 months

New toy! Digital camera! Let's take pictures of my pile...

by DSEAGRAV＠toad.xkl.com

School bought a digital camera, and I get to play with it! I'll be posting pictures at http://linux.epchs.k12.il.us/dseagrav until about 2:35 PM. (When school's out.) Go ahead and take a look! -------

27 years, 12 months

What's an Emulex TC12?

by DSEAGRAV＠toad.xkl.com

Just dug one out of the board pile. What is it? Is it a 9-track controller? (Please, oh please...) -------

27 years, 12 months

Do we belong on list?

by nhdirect＠tiac.net

Should our service be on your list? I have included a write up that we publish to selected newsgroups. Would our service be of interest to your members. David nhdirect(a)tiac.net New Hampshire Computer Flea Market ?Bring unwanted computer items to sell, and/or buy at bargain prices? Someone is looking for the computer hardware and software that you no longer use. Sell those items at the Computer Flea Market on Sunday May 10 from 9 AM to 2 PM, at Daniels Hall, Rt 4, Nottingham, NH. This is an excellent opportunity to turn your unwanted computer hardware & software, MAC or PC, games, etc., into cash, or purchase at bargain prices. Also just come to swap ideas with other local computer users. Free admission to those folks coming to look and possibly buy, and $5.00 admission for those bringing items to sell. Join us at the flea market on the 2nd Sunday of every month. Food & drink are available. Dealers are also welcome ($20.00 table charge, electricity included). Dealers should reserve display space by e-mailing nhdirect(a)tiac.net or calling 603 942-8525. Visit the Computer Flea Market web page at: http://www.tiac.net/users/nhdirect/flea.html Sponsored by S&D Associates

27 years, 12 months

What's an Emulex TC12?

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On May 6, 19:07, Daniel A. Seagraves wrote: > Subject: Re: What's an Emulex TC12? And I sent an unsigned repy. Normal sig has now been restored :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

27 years, 12 months

Low-end Unix (was: TI99: Anyone reading this with a TI-99/4A?)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

I have heard tell (from a very reliable source) of a version of Unix <written for the Radio Shack Model 100 (8085, 32K max). (And no, it's no <available, and yes, he's tried to get the company that did it to release Call me skeptical, 8085 is far less code efficient that z80. <I thought someone had said that CP/M was based on Unix? Or was that on <of the PDP opsys? CP/M was based on OS/8 and RT-11, it is very un-unix. DEC Ultrix-11 and Ultrix-32 are both unix based on BSD versions. Allison

27 years, 12 months

the new Apple iMac

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

I disagree. Apple, at least to me, represents that innovation can live in today's computer industry, and that being different makes you ahead, not behind of the crowd. (And yes, I thought that BEFORE Apple's current marketing campaign.) Looks cool, but I want more information, and, as most people go, they'll need reasons to want a $1.3K over a $600-$800 PC. Tim D. Hotze -----Original Message----- From: Huw Davies <H.Davies(a)latrobe.edu.au> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Thursday, May 07, 1998 11:10 AM Subject: Re: the new Apple iMac >At 12:26 AM 07-05-98 -0700, Sam Ismail wrote: >> >>Anyone see the new Apple iMac unveiled today? I like it. Instant >>classic. > >The best comment so far at work was that after its useful life it would be >much easier to convert into a fishbowl. Just turn upside down and fill :-) > >Does look cool, but I'd like to touch one before committing one way or the >other. In my scheme of things, MacOS is about fourth or fifth choice. > > Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies(a)latrobe.edu.au > Information Technology Services | Phone: +61 3 9479 1550 Fax: +61 3 9479 >1999 > La Trobe University | "If God had wanted soccer played in the > Melbourne Australia 3083 | air, the sky would be painted green"

27 years, 12 months

Here's 2 morde boards to ID...

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On May 6, 19:25, Daniel A. Seagraves wrote: > Anyway, what are the: > EMULEX SC03 It's a QBus controller for SMD drives. It will support two physical drives, making them emulate two (or more, if necessary) logical DEC drives. We need to know the suffix (SC03/A, SC03/B, SC03/C) as there are at least three versions, emulating different drives. I have an SC03 which emulates RM03s, but there's an MSCP version as well. I've got the manual for this one, too. > Dilog CQ2010 QBus communications controller of some sort. I don't know the details on this one, though. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

27 years, 12 months

[Try 3!] New toy! Digital camera. Wanna see my pile?

by root＠linux.epchs.k12.il.us

Try #3, I can't seem to mail out from toad... School got a new digital camera, and I get to play with it. I've posted pictures of my 11/44 (GALAXIA) [My Pile] up at http://linux.epchs.k12.il.us/dseagrav Enjoy! Now, can I borrow this sucker for a weekend...

27 years, 12 months

Here's 2 morde boards to ID...

by DSEAGRAV＠toad.xkl.com

Wow, the lag is terrible! (FTping something...) Anyway, what are the: EMULEX SC03 Dilog CQ2010 -------

27 years, 12 months

What's an Emulex TC12?

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On May 6, 13:06, Daniel A. Seagraves wrote: > Subject: What's an Emulex TC12? > Just dug one out of the board pile. > What is it? > Is it a 9-track controller? (Please, oh please...) I think so; I expect it's the Unibus equivalent of my QBus TC02. I've got the manual if you need to ask about it.

27 years, 12 months

Microsoft BASIC 80 non-disclosure agreement

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

>Oh, I'll be gentle with them, and polite, at least to start with. But >when _I'm_ paying for the call (often at a premium rate), or even worse >am paying for so-called tech support, I expect a little more than a >person who treats me like somebody who can't even read. In other words I >expect _technical_ support on the product that they supplied me with. Exactly. I also expect if the technical support is not via phone (IE from e-mail, web based, etc.) to get a timely answer. With my old soundcard, it was 3 months, by which time I'd gotten so fed up I'd figured it out anyway. Now I use a real Sound Blaster AWE 64. I like the cool sound. >> Have you ever gotten a response? > >Other than the obvious 'we don't support that any more' or 'A bug in a 20 >year product, you must be mad to expect us to do anything about it', no, >not really. Well, yeah, but if you're lucky and get the right people... Or if you say that it had a "lifetime warranty." Tim D. Hotze

27 years, 12 months

Serendipity

by bill_r＠inetnebr.com

I was at the scrap yard yesterday, picking up some aluminum blocks to play with on my new CNC milling machine, and decided to take a stroll out where they occasionally dump old mainframe parts. It's just this huge mud lot about 2 blocks square, with big mounds of twisted metal, wire, cable, crushed cars, and all kinds of other junk, with a bunch of bits of electronics thrown in more or less at random. I wasn't in the mood for a lot of climbing, so I just poked around the edges. I found a board about 18" square sitting on top of a barrel. When I picked it up, it was *way* too heavy for the size. Flipped it over and saw another, smaller board screwed to the bottom. It was marked "DataRAM". I thought "Oh no - surely not. It can't be core memory! But it's so *heavy*! What is it?" I took it along. I also found an old controller module of some kind with an RCA 1802 and support chips on it; now maybe I can finally build a real Elf. Anyway, they sell everything by the pound, and the two pieces cost me about $2. Brought it home, removed all the screws around the edge, pulled off the smaller board, and guess what? Acres of core! Tiny little ones, too - I haven't seen that much core, but the other small piece I have has cores with a center hole about the size of a pencil lead. These were so small they looked like grains of sand, or salt. Had to use a 12x magnifier to see them clearly. By my count, there are about 100 per inch in both directions, and it's about 8"x10", with a few gaps here and there, so this gives... ummm... (square root of 7, carry the 9...) uh... something under 800k-bits or so? Does this sound right? Anyway, I was pretty pumped. I may go back and do some serious climbing and burrowing this weekend... -Bill Richman bill_r(a)inetnebr.com http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r (Home of the COSMAC Elf Simulator!)

27 years, 12 months

FW: PDP-11/73 in NJ available

by kyrrin＠jps.net

I have no clue what this guy considers a 'serious' offer. Maybe someone on the list can 'offer' to haul it away...? ;-) Attachment follows. -=-=- <snip> -=-=- On 04 May 1998 01:49:25 GMT, in vmsnet.pdp-11 you wrote: >>From: rmweiss(a)aol.com (RMWeiss) >>Newsgroups: vmsnet.pdp-11 >>Subject: pdp11/73 for sale-fully functioning >>Lines: 6 >>Message-ID: <1998050401492500.VAA29644(a)ladder01.news.aol.com> >>NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder01.news.aol.com >>X-Admin: news(a)aol.com >>Date: 04 May 1998 01:49:25 GMT >>Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com >>Path: blushng.jps.net!news.eli.net!news.burgoyne.com!news.eecs.umich.edu!newsxfer3.itd.umich.edu!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail >> >>located in New Jersey, very recently retired system. stand alone case, 1meg >>mem,160 meg Fujitsu drive, tape backup, peripherals, etc. Please address any >>serious offers and questions to Ronny at RMWeiss(a)aol.com or call (800) 526-3192 >>M-F 9-5 EDT. >>Thanks for your interest. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, SysOp, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fido 1:343/272) kyrrin {at} j<p>s d[o]t n=e=t "...No matter how hard we may wish otherwise, our science can only describe an object, event, or living creature, in our own human terms. It cannot possibly define any of them!..."

27 years, 12 months

FW: FREE PDP-11/84's -- in Scotland!

by kyrrin＠jps.net

Here's a twist. Anyone in or near Scotland care to take a stab at this rescue? Attachment follows. -=-=- <snip> -=-=- On Wed, 6 May 1998 22:34:19 +0100, in vmsnet.pdp-11 you wrote: >>From: Ian A McDonald <iam(a)st-andrews.ac.uk> >>Newsgroups: vmsnet.pdp-11 >>Subject: PDP-11/84's going free >>Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 22:34:19 +0100 >>Organization: St. Andrews University >>Lines: 23 >>Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.96.980506223042.10932A-100000@maths> >>NNTP-Posting-Host: maths.st-and.ac.uk >>Mime-Version: 1.0 >>Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII >>NNTP-Posting-User: iam >>X-Sender: iam(a)st-andrews.ac.uk >>Path: blushng.jps.net!news.eli.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!194.72.7.126!btnet-peer!btnet!nntp.news.xara.net!xara.net!server6.netnews.ja.net!st-and!maths!iam >> >>St. Andrews, Fife, Scotland >> >>2 off pdp-11/84 2mb >>Processors fine, >>disks dead, >> >>free to anyone who cares enough to save them from the skip. >>I know little about their internals, but we've been ordered to skip them. >>I'm hoping for a good home for them. >>Unfortunately, it's a buyer collect deal, but we're asking no money. >> >>-- >>Ian >> >>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >>Oh, God is playing marbles, >>With His Planets and his Stars, 1084 New Hall, >>Creating havoc through my life, St Andrews, >>With his influence on Mars ... Fife, >>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> >> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, SysOp, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fido 1:343/272) kyrrin {at} j<p>s d[o]t n=e=t "...No matter how hard we may wish otherwise, our science can only describe an object, event, or living creature, in our own human terms. It cannot possibly define any of them!..."

27 years, 12 months

The PC's Soviet?

by chemif＠mbox.queen.it

At 03:56 29/04/98 -0400, you wrote: >Believe it or not, I think there *was* a "Lemon" Apple clone. My father >and I still occasionally joke about it. And we didn't get it from BYTE. True! Here in Italy there was a manufacturer that called theyr Apple clones "LEMON". ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ? Riccardo Romagnoli,collector of:CLASSIC COMPUTERS,TELETYPE UNITS,PHONES ? ? AND PHONECARDS I-47100 Forli'/Emilia-Romagna/Food Valley/ITALY ? ? Pager(DTMF PHONES)=+39/16888(hear msg.and BEEP then 5130274*YOUR TEL.No.* ? ? where*=asterisk key |4 help visit http://www.tim.it/tldrin_eg/tlde03.html ? ? e-mail=chemif(a)mbox.queen.it ? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

27 years, 12 months

RSX-11 Disk Images anyone?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<be interested. Will they be SYSGEN-able? That's one thing I miss in <the RT-11 image that came with the emulator. But I'm not going to look <a gift horse in the mouth. Rt-11 does not require sysgening like RSX or RSTS So just the binaries of the standard monitors (SJ, FB, XM and BJ) and the standard drivers is all that's needed to use it effectively. RT-11 really only requires the disk used to boot to have the boot blocks installed (copy/boot) and it will run on all PDP11s and most all disks. Known disks supported in v5 were the all the RXnn drives regardless of controller (rx01/2/3/50/33) all the RD drives, RK drives, pro350(DW/DZ), TU58 tape(bootable and useable as system device) and most of the mag tapes. V5 includes a ramdisk called VM that can even be booted assuming you have plenty of ram. An 11/23 with 1meg ram running RT11FB will have plenty of space in VM (about 1900 blocks) for a useful system. I know as I run it on 11/03, 11/23, 11/73 using RL02, RD5x, RX50, RX33, rx02, TU58 and VM:. A useable system fits on any 256k(497 blocks) dual device (tu58 or RX01). A rx50(800blocks) system is fairly roomy. Any hard disk is fast and plenty of room even small 5meg(10,000 blocks) RD50s. The full V5 kit minus .mac files fits in about 4-5000 blocks. Removing the unused drivers and other misc files really cuts this down. A block is 512bytes. I didn't mention but RT-11 is NOT a memory hog and even a PDP-11 with 16kw can run a useful system. Being a low fat OS it is also very fast permitting even slow PDP-11 processors a chance to look good. It's basic commands look just like PC dos. An emulated V4 system should be useable to do PDP-11 program development and run standard monitors. the minimum hardware needed is any PDP11 (even the falcon card!) 16kw ram, mass storage (floppy or hard disk) and at least one DL serial line (console). The boot an even be toggled by hand. Allison

27 years, 12 months

Definition of an Analog(ue) Computer

by Philip.Belben＠powertech.co.uk

Allison quoted me as having written: > <What's that got to do with it? Diodes are analogue parts - the output > <(current) is a continuous function of the input (voltage), not a > <discrete one (to me the difference between an analogue and a digital > > Yes, but they don't (generally) amplify. I think you may be confusing my remark with Tony's. I remarked that "all circuits are amplifiers" meaning that the general circuit can be modelled as taking an input, applying some sort of gain, and producing an output. A gross oversimplification, but I wasn't talking about the active/passive issue (gain>1 => active, etc.) Tony made a slightly different remark, "Digital circuits are built with analogue parts". Unlike mine, this is not an oversimplification, it is absolutely true. And has nothing to do with amplifiers. You can build a digital circuit element with diodes; they are analogue parts, and they don't amplify. Clear now? > <component). In fact, Allison, you were saying only a few days ago that > <you don't need any amplification to make an analogue _computer_ (with > <which I agree - although some of your examples I wouldn't call > <computers). > > I still hold that amplification is a factor in the equation that an analog > function may contain but it is not required. I never (intensionally) disputed this! > This is an analogue function, take a shot at the equation it solves. I couldn't quite read your diagram, I'm afraid. Was it series capacitor followed by shunt diode? Looks like it refers the input to the lowest value it (the input) ever takes, rather than to ground or a fixed reference. > <For non-electronic digital computers, where do Facit mechanical > <calculators lie? I have one (which is driven by an electric motor but > > Computers, mechanical, fixed program. Roughly what I thought. I wasn't sure whether people would class it as a computer, but I think it is no less of one than a 4-function pocket calculator. [pneumatics] > You've not seen a modern production line that uses air logic. I've worked No. I've seen some of the components in catalogues, though, and wondered if they'd be of use in organ building, though! > on one that was used to produce pharaceuticals that were in flamable bases > (ethanol). There was some fairly complex logic in that system. Working Sounds fun! > with it is like designing with relays. I can imagine. Philip.

27 years, 12 months

RSTS/E v8.0-07 filesystem limitations.

by DSEAGRAV＠toad.xkl.com

Is there a limit to how big a RSTS filesystem can be? I'm told 8.0-07 doesn't support RA92s. But the fact that INIT knows what it is tells me otherwise. All I have to do is find the CMP instruction stopping me from formatting this disk and off we go. The question is, is the RSTS filesystem used in 8.0-07 able to handle a drive this size? Is there some filesystem-induced wall I'm about to walk into? -------

27 years, 12 months

Prototype Apple //c found

by dastar＠wco.com

Of course everything I've dragged home in the last few months simply pales in comparison to the prototype Apple //c I brought home today. I was on my way back to work in the early afternoon and was trying to decide if I should stop at my favorite thrift store on the way which would put me in traffic, or if I should cut across the hills to get back quicker. I thought to myself that there may just be something at the thrift store that would make the trip worth it, so the thoughts of finding something cool won over my need to get back to the office. This is one case where I'm glad I let my irrational urges get the best of me. The first thing I saw when I got to the electronics section was an Apple //c, and I thought to myself, "Hmmm...do I want another //c?" (since I have like 3 already). But when I picked it up I noticed something strange about it. The case was smooth instead of having the normal texture. I flipped it over and noticed there was a small green sticker on the bottom instead of the normal grey one with the Apple //c wording and part numbers, etc. The sticker read "Apple Computer Inc., PCSD MFG, 3087 North First Street, San Jose, CA 95134" then the words "Prototype" and "Test Equipment" with check boxes next to each. "Prototype" was checked off. Of course phrases like "holy shit" went through my head. The label also had a serial number of "P1160" and at the bottom was "WARNING: PROPRIETARY PRODUCT". Now this was too cool for words to describe (<--- isn't that deliciously nerdy?) When I got home I opened it up along with a regular production //c and started comparing the motherboards of the two. There were several minor differences. Some silkscreen lettering was different and there were a couple minor component changes, but nothing significant and for the most part the board layout was identical. I pulled out the power supply on the prototype and the production model which unveiled the following: Prototype Production --------- ---------- TERI MAIN LOGIC MAIN LOGIC 820-0115-0 820-0115-C (c) 1983 APPLE COMPUTER APPLE COMPUTER (c) 1983 Was "TERI" the codename for the Apple //c? A couple other interesting differences: on the prototype, there was a small board with the labeling "Apple Computer Network SKA156-00" in the place near the serial port where on the production model is a simple transistor pack. The "network" board simply has transistors on it. Also, at location C19 on the proto is a 74LS161 whereas on the production there is a 1.8432 Mhz crystal. On the proto, the CHAR GEN EPROM is socketed and the system ROM is an EPROM with a sticker which has "v1.0 5/19 5F85" written on it. Lastly, for the motherboard product number (all Apple components have a product number in the form of xxx-xxxx-x) the proto had 6xx-xxxx-whereas the production has 612-0128-E. Oh yeah, the proto had a spider living in the connector of the power supply. Spiders find the stupidest places to spin their web. What the hell did he expect to come crawling through there!? I was just going to flick him off into the room but if my wife found him a couple days from now she would've fainted, so I did away with the poor little sucker. R.I.P. Here's where you envious types shoot yourself: I paid $2.98 for it. :) I've found some of the best stuff in thrift stores, but this beats all. It will be proudly displayed right next to my prototype Apple //gs at the next Vintage Computer Festival. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Don't blame me...I voted for Satan. Coming in September...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 05/03/98]

27 years, 12 months

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