On May 21, 14:46, Daniel A. Seagraves wrote:
> Subject: What does an M8579 go into?
> The book says 11-bit MOS RAM. What's 11 bits?
To a first approximation, 2 more than 9 :-)
It's probably ECC memory; ie one step better than parity in that it can
correct (not just detect) single-bit errors. ECC memory was used on 11/44
and 11/83, 11/93. How big is the M8579? QBus? Unibus? I can't find it
in my guide.
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Dept. of Computer Science
University of York
IBM didn't beat the DOJ as much as President Regan dropped the suit in
the
early 80s (82 or 83 I think) as part of his ``Smaller Government'' or
``Business Friendly Government'' or something like that. Before that,
it
had been going on for 10 years.
That's what I mean, the DOJ can't sustain long lawsuits, the
administrations change and the zealots get the rug pulled out from under
them. Same may happen here, DOJ gets something started but when Steve
Forbes tales office in 2001, the DOJ suit is history the next day.
Jack Peacock
A coworker and I are both interested in acquiring some surplus color NeXT
pizza-boxes which a neighboring company has. However there is only one
of the DSP/speaker/ADB breakout boxes. They have also been gutted of
hard drives and memory. So do any of you know where I could find extras?
Especially the speakers and the NeXT OS - I'm assuming I could use normal
FP-mode 72-pin SIMMS (that looks like the size slot they used) and a SCSI-II
hard drive. Also, the monitor connection looks just like Sun's so I'm
wondering if they are interchangeable - same res., refresh rate, etc.? They
look like 21" monitors.
Please reply to "all" since my coworker is probably not on this list.
--
_______ KB7PWD @ KC7Y.AZ.US.NOAM ecloud(a)goodnet.com
(_ | |_) Shawn T. Rutledge on the web: http://www.goodnet.com/~ecloud
__) | | \__________________________________________________________________
* Linux * Khoros * sci fi * 808 State * Gravis Ultrasound * VRML * X window *
Kai-
I am interested in purchasing the North Star Horzion. I don't have a
trade so would be a cash exchange.
Do you have any info on the characteristics of the Horizon such as
floppies, memory, monitor, keyboard, and overall condition?
Thanks
Randy Staponski
>>Do you think that there is any chance that Microsoft is now so big
that
it can afford better lawyers that the Department of Justice?
Good chance, after all IBM beat the DOJ, I hope Bill can too. History
shows the DOJ can't sustain long drawn out proceedings against large,
well-funded companies. In this case attrition works in favor of MS, not
against it. Let's hope Gates hangs tough and keeps the DOJ do-gooders
out of the computer business.
Jack Peacock
At 10:49 PM 5/18/98 -0500, you wrote:
>> Toshiba T1000
>
>Very common, but worth $50 on eBay!
I think just about everything is worth at least $50 on ebay... 8^) (Not
too common, it's my first.)
>> HP 110
>
>Nice, one of the first clam-shell laptops (after the GRiD Compass, and
>before the DG/One). I hope you have HP-IL cables and software!
I believe it has PC2622 (precursor to Reflections by WRQ) in ROM? (HP Term
emulator). Anyway, I've got 1 HP-IL cable (from an HP75D) but am still in
search of an appropriate PS.
>Army surplus or what?
Nope, HMR. Btw, one of the 1520's (iirc) had a sheet of paper taped to it,
a print-out from some fixed assets pgm. Listed the purchase date (iirc) as
12/89, and the original cost as $4800+. Current (depreciated) value is
$0... 8^)
>> Is the DB25 for an external floppy,
>> since the HD seems to be where the floppy should be?
>
>Right again. The external floppy seems to be hard to find. I should have
>a couple of them later this week, though :-)
Perhaps the ones I picked up will fit; I'll have to give it a try?
>
>> The HD makes some
>> rather unhappy noises, though it seems to work fine; anyone have any
>> suggestions for the best way to get the data/OS off the hard drive in case
>> of failure? (Just copy to floppies?) It comes up in something called
>> (iirc) InteGRiD; anyone know anything about this?
>
>InteGRiD is a version of GRiD/OS that you can boot from MS-DOS (usually by
>running GRID.EXE). I've never seen InteGRiD in a machine that didn't also
>have MS-DOS on it. If you have MS-DOS, you can just use laplink. If you
>don't have MS-DOS, you'll need a GRiDServer or a floppy.
I was able to drop to DOS, so I'll see if I can get laplink onto it. But
hopefully the floppy drives will work. You wouldn't know what type of HD
is in there, would you?
>Reprinted w/o permission from Newsbytes:
>
><<
[...]
>European marketplace. The T1000 model which weighs in at 2.9 kg (or about
[...]
>(about US$ 1400), is supplied with MS-DOS 3.2 and a 3.5 inch disk drive.
>This model, which replaces the old T1100, is designed to fill in the gap
[...]
>>>
Interesting. Toshiba's spec files say it came with MS-DOS 2.11. They seem
to have trouble keeping their model numbers in order. 8^)
--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-
Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/
-----Original Message-----
From: Desie Hay <desieh(a)southcom.com.au>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Thursday, May 21, 1998 1:09 AM
Subject: Re: [Rare systems] & Garry Kildor
>yes well, I can't spell, and I think that Garry Kildor could have been the
>bill gates of today if he had played his cards right
I'm sure a lot of people wish Bill Gates were in Gary's shoes (so to speak).
I've got some Compute Magazines from the '80s, and some ST Informers (and a
few misc. other mags) if anyone is interested.
Technically, they belong to ABACUS, the Atari Bay Area Computer Users
Society, so I'd like to get something for the club for them. (Or, offer me
portable computer stuff, donald duck stuff, or miniature Land Rovers and
I'll make a contribution on your behalf for them.)
e-mail me privately if interested. Thanks!
--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-
Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/
Digging thru the VAX 780 manuals...
They have here some crud on how the microcode works. Where it starts and ends,
field definitions, etc.
I know basically how microcode works. It's the one-cycle instructions like
"gate data bus to address bus" or "gate data bus to ALU".
One MOV can be 2-5 microinstructions.
The large question I have is: How does the MOV translate to microcode?
Does the VAX figure a microcode offset based on the opcode? Is there a table
of entry points somewhere? How is this done?
Another thing, the VAX 780 was microcoded from the console RX01. Does anyone
have a copy of that RX01? Can anyone get a disk image? What else was on there?
(RT-11? P/OS?)
Just being annoying...
-------
Speaking of Zenith 248 computers, does anybody have a guesstimate on
the amount of tempested Zenith 248's produced? They typically are
labelled Zenith Inteq.
Marty
______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________
Subject: Re: Questions, questions
Author: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu at internet
Date: 5/21/98 1:18 AM
Ward Donald Griffiths III wrote:
> George Currie wrote:
>
> > Recently acquired a Heathkit computer. Looks to be a pc compatable (din
> > keyboard plug, 1/2 height 5 /14, etc). Plate on back says model U 148.
Any
> > clues?
>
> I forget exactly when Zenith folded the operation, but I am willing
> to hazard a guess that _any_ Heath product is a classic under the
> rules of this mailing list. Even if it was a do-it-yourself multi-
> meter.
I'm sure all the computers are but some training items are not since they
still
do
training. There is a mailing list like this for Heath enthusiasts but it deals
with ham equipment and test equipment and all that is classic and antique in
nature. I have a Heath tube tester that dates back to 1967 myself and there
are
people that have items back to some of the first kits and unbuilt kits as
well.
The Z248's I have are dated 1987 and 1888 so I guess they qualify for this
list.
Zenith Data Systems is now a separate company and has a web page at
http://www.zds.com and it appears that their main focus is government and
corporate machines rather than the everyday person.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Russ Blakeman
RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144
Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991
Email: rhblake(a)bbtel.com or rhblake(a)bigfoot.com
Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/
ICQ UIN #1714857
AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN"
* Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers*
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From: Russ/Alice Blakeman <rhblake(a)bbtel.com>
To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers"
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Questions, questions
References: <B0000003060(a)skitzo.pauls.net> <3563A52A.CFFD145E(a)cnct.com>
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At 12:16 PM 5/20/98 +0100, you wrote:
>(one for regular posting to the list maybe? a list of good ftp sites /
>web sites for various machines... or de we have a regular FAQ anyway?)
I try to collect relevant URL's for each machine in my collection (and
recommend others do so as well) and put links to them on my web pages for
that machine.
So, if anyone knows of any pages related to any of the machines I have (see
<http://www.sinasohn.com/clascomp/> for an almost up-to-date list), I would
love to hear of them, even if I don't have a page for that specific machine
yet.
Other than that, CHAC has a pretty good list (go to <http://www.chac.org/>)
even though I'm not on it yet. 8^( (Kip has a good excuse, though -- he's
been writing (and rewriting everytime the Justice Dept has a press
conference) a book on Win98.)
--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-
Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/
At 10:17 PM 5/19/98 -0400, you wrote:
>> anybody have IBM PC DOS 1.00? or know of where I may d/l it from the net
>> somewhere??
>
>Lad, we don't do that here. Copyright situation. Besides, PC-DOS 1.0
I don't know for sure, but knowing M$, I strongly suspect that they still
retain the rights to it as a commercial product (and all versions since),
unlike Apple, which makes the 6.0.x and 7.0 versions of the MacOS available
for free from their FTP site.
Perhaps the original poster was thinking that M$ might be so gracious as to
do as Apple did? (Woooheee.... Boy, I crack myself up sometimes... 8^)
--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-
Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/
At 11:11 PM 5/18/98 -0500, you wrote:
>> Haddock claims the T1100 was Toshiba's first laptop; just by looking at the
>
>Oops, I forgot to mention that neither the T1000 nor the T1100 were
>Toshiba's first laptop. I don't have one, but I think their first was the
>T100, a CP/M laptop from 1982
Okay, where can I get one? 8^) Toshiba doesn't have a spec file for it;
I'll have to do some searching around to find out more about it.
--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-
Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/
At 08:11 PM 5/18/98 -0700, you wrote:
>> Army surplus or what?
>
>I'm guessing HMR... Open w/o appointment last Saturday?
Actually, it was Friday. 8^) Yep, HMR. I *love* that place. I could
spend $200/week easy, if I had it. 8^)
Btw, was there someone else from the list at HMR last Friday? The guy
(Rick?) I dealt with said someone else had been in that morning who was
into GRiD's.
Anyway, now that they're open on alternate Saturdays, perhaps we should be
planning a bay area get-together?
--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-
Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/
Are you refering to the original 16KB-64KB motherboard 5150 PC or do
you mean the 64KB-256KB motherboard 5150 PC? I have only seen two
original 16KB-64KB 5150 PC's. I'm certain there must be plenty of them
out there but I never see them. I see the 64KB-256KB motherboard
5150's everywhere.
Marty
______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________
Subject: Prices to pay for old computers...
Author: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu at internet
Date: 5/21/98 5:45 AM
email: desieh(a)southcom.com.au
desieh(a)bigfoot.com
museum_curator(a)hotmail.com
Apple Lisa Web Page:
http://www.southcom.com.au/~desieh/index.htm
One of the best examples of this would be the original IBM PC.......
now apparently the dudes on ebay say $100 for a IBM PC well if you have one
in its original box will all manuals and
all original parts, manuals, disks etc this would be a reasobabley fair
price to pay. .999% of all IBM PC I come accross
have been upgraded,
treated badly, hacked, and far from thier original condiditon, and there are
no manuals in site..............
but if you have one with only the CPU at that it well, perhaps $0-10 is a
fairer price........
You cant just say that xxxxx computer is worh $xx amount...... you have to
allow for some systems that have manuals, disks,
boxes etc.............
systhems in these conditions are few and far between............
this is just my opinion on the subject so I would like to hear other peoples
comments..............
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From: "Desie Hay" <desieh(a)southcom.com.au>
To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers"
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Subject: Prices to pay for old computers...
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email: desieh(a)southcom.com.au
desieh(a)bigfoot.com
museum_curator(a)hotmail.com
Apple Lisa Web Page:
http://www.southcom.com.au/~desieh/index.htm
One of the best examples of this would be the original IBM PC.......
now apparently the dudes on ebay say $100 for a IBM PC well if you have one
in its original box will all manuals and
all original parts, manuals, disks etc this would be a reasobabley fair
price to pay. .999% of all IBM PC I come accross
have been upgraded,
treated badly, hacked, and far from thier original condiditon, and there are
no manuals in site..............
but if you have one with only the CPU at that it well, perhaps $0-10 is a
fairer price........
You cant just say that xxxxx computer is worh $xx amount...... you have to
allow for some systems that have manuals, disks,
boxes etc.............
systhems in these conditions are few and far between............
this is just my opinion on the subject so I would like to hear other peoples
comments..............
>
>> More specifically, and perhaps more to the point, do you think that
>> a copy of VisiCalc (black binder/manual c1981) and MS Multiplan are
>> each worth $5?
>
>Not bad. Considering I've seen some fools pay ten times that.
>
Well I must be one of the fools because I would pay well for original 1981
PC software if the disks are still good. Its very hard to find around here.
-----Original Message-----
From: Ward Donald Griffiths III <gram(a)cnct.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Wednesday, 20 May 1998 14:00
Subject: Re: [Rare systems]
>Desie Hay wrote:
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Ward Donald Griffiths III <gram(a)cnct.com>
>> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
>> <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
>> Date: Tuesday, 19 May 1998 12:14
>> Subject: Re: [Rare systems]
>>
>> >Desie Hay wrote:
>> >
>> >> I dont think anybody ported unix to the Lisa...well it wasnt a
commerical
>> >> thing....
>> >> im not sure on this but if someone knows for sure ill like to hear
from
>> them
>> >>
>> >> check out my Lisa web page......
>> >
>> >Well, there was a Lisa running Unix at OCC '84 (the last) in Anaheim.
>> >At least one. At the Apple booth. Since I'd been playing with Xenix
>> >(at the Radio Shack Computer Center where I did tech support) for well
>> >over a year by then, I was actually not too impressed -- it was far
>> >from ready for prime time. But it was definitely Unix. It just wasn't
>> >commercial. Especially since Tandy Xenix systems cost a fraction and
>> >actually had support (around Los Angeles, that was mostly me -- with
>> >some good documentation and a good line to Fort Worth).
>
>> yes ive seen pictures of Garry Kildor with a Lisa at his side...
>> They had a version under development but i almost sure they never
released
>> it.....
>
>Gary Kildall did CP/M, he may have had some relationship with CP/M 68K
>for Apple platforms (I don't think so, though he did have some input
>into the port to the TRS-80 Model 16), but I seriously doubt that he
>had anything to to do with Lisa Unix or the later A/UX for the "real"
>Macintoshes. Gary Kildall was _not_ a Unix type, and I can't think of a
>way to misspell any name of a Unix god "Garry Kildor".
>--
>Ward Griffiths
>They say that politics makes strange bedfellows.
>Of course, the main reason they cuddle up is to screw somebody else.
> Michael Flynn, _Rogue Star_
>
yes well, I can't spell, and I think that Garry Kildor could have been the
bill gates of today if he had played his cards right
remember IBM went to him first before they went to Microsoft for a OS for
their 'then' new PC.....
he turned them down............. If had CP/M on the IBM PC he would have
been able to do the same thing as what Billy Gates
did resell it to other companies............
oh well its funney how things turn out.........
I know that we recently discussed fair prices for hardware, but what
are fair prices for software? I know that there must be hundreds
of thousands of titles, but I have some specific questions.
1)Software that once WAS expensive, like old versions of AutoCAD,
SPSS, etc.
2)Rare software, like Xenix
3)Famous software, like VisiCalc
Should these things be expensive?
More specifically, and perhaps more to the point, do you think that
a copy of VisiCalc (black binder/manual c1981) and MS Multiplan are
each worth $5?
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
It would be interesting to see the original QDOS...
>Lad, we don't do that here. Copyright situation. Besides, PC-DOS 1.0
>was total crap, you'd want 1.25 to do anything. However, you can step
>over to www.caldera.com and pick up the latest DR-DOS (though I liked
>things better when they called it OpenDOS), a much better descendent of
>CP/M than MS-DOS was.
>--
>Ward Griffiths
>They say that politics makes strange bedfellows.
>Of course, the main reason they cuddle up is to screw somebody else.
> Michael Flynn, _Rogue Star_
>
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Anyone want to take a stab at helping this young (or old, who cares)
lady out?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rebecca Young <Rebecca_Young(a)hotmail.com>
Sydney, NSW Australia - Wednesday, May 20, 1998 at 23:17:42
Does anyone know how to get information off 5&1/4" floppies
that apparently are from around the late 70s, early 80s
and were done on a WANG system?
I've got an emulator or something like it, but don't know
any of the keyboard commands or mappings...
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Russ Blakeman
RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144
Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991
Email: rhblake(a)bbtel.com or rhblake(a)bigfoot.com
Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/
ICQ UIN #1714857
AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN"
* Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers*
--------------------------------------------------------------------
<Some non-clones (such as the DEC Rainbow) ran Windows; basically DEC
<wrote or contracted for the device drivers necessary to make it work.
<I don't recall whether Windows 2.x ran on the 'bow; I didn't have access
<to one during that timeframe.
I know 2.11 was released by DRC for the Rainbow. I still have media
with that on it (used as blanks).
However the cpu was still intel (8088). I think winders didn't run on
the 80186(8) used in one of the tandys and a few oddballs. mostly because
the 186 has some on board peripherals (DMA and interrupts) that were not
PCclone compatable. The '188 cpu was basically 8088/V20
Allison
>I know that we recently discussed fair prices for hardware, but what
>are fair prices for software? I know that there must be hundreds
>of thousands of titles, but I have some specific questions.
>
>1)Software that once WAS expensive, like old versions of AutoCAD,
>SPSS, etc.
>2)Rare software, like Xenix
>3)Famous software, like VisiCalc
>Should these things be expensive?
>More specifically, and perhaps more to the point, do you think that
>a copy of VisiCalc (black binder/manual c1981) and MS Multiplan are
>each worth $5?
Good topic! I was just thinking about the same thing the other day.
I would certainly drop $5 on an original Visicalc, and maybe that for an old
Multiplan.
The nice thing is, it shouldn't be hard to find them for that price either.
Old software is NOT attracting the attention of old hardware. But why is
that? For the life of me, I dunno. But hey - I'm happy it's cheap - it means
I can still get some while the gettin's good.
What would I think is collectable?
Version 1 of anything that later became famous. (DOS, Windows, Visicalc,
Lotus, etc)
Oddball packaging (Lotus Symphony, early Infocom games)
Big-time failures and dead-ends (Lotus Jazz, GEM, Visi-ON)
Software from the cassette and paper-tape era (Apple Brickout, Microsoft
Altair BASIC)
My .02
--Larry
<desieh(a)southcom.com.au>wrote:
>>anybody have IBM PC DOS 1.00? or know of where I may d/l it from the
>> net somewhere??
"Richard A. Cini" <rcini(a)email.msn.com> wrote:
> I'm sure that I can find some way to get you the 1.1 diskette.
Rich,
Just attrib the system files:
attrib -h -s a:ibm*.com
Zip all the files to your hard drive
pkzip -arp c:dos11.zip a:*.*
reattrib the system files
attrib +h +s a:ibm*.com
and then sent the zip file to him by e-mail
He can then format a 360K disk and copy the files to it and
reattrib the system files.
Boot with that disk and format a 320K disk.
Attrib the system files and copy all of the files to the 320K disk
Reattrib the system files.
(I would make sure that the two system files were copied to a new disk
before any of the other files and in the same order that they were
on the original disk)
That should work "in theory".
My version 1.1 is a backup and I'm not sure if it contains any extra
files. How does this directory listing compare to your disk?
Volume in drive A has no label
Directory of A:\
IBMBIO COM 1920 05-07-82 12:00p
IBMDOS COM 6400 05-07-82 12:00p
COMMAND COM 4959 05-07-82 12:00p
FORMAT COM 3816 05-07-82 12:00p
CHKDSK COM 1720 05-07-82 12:00p
SYS COM 605 05-07-82 12:00p
DISKCOPY COM 2008 05-07-82 12:00p
DISKCOMP COM 1640 05-07-82 12:00p
COMP COM 1649 05-07-82 12:00p
EXE2BIN EXE 1280 05-07-82 12:00p
MODE COM 2509 05-07-82 12:00p
EDLIN COM 2392 05-07-82 12:00p
DEBUG COM 5999 05-07-82 12:00p
LINK EXE 41856 05-07-82 12:00p
BASIC COM 11392 05-07-82 12:00p
BASICA COM 16768 05-07-82 12:00p
ART BAS 1920 05-07-82 12:00p
SAMPLES BAS 2432 05-07-82 12:00p
MORTGAGE BAS 6272 05-07-82 12:00p
COLORBAR BAS 1536 05-07-82 12:00p
CALENDAR BAS 3840 05-07-82 12:00p
MUSIC BAS 8704 05-07-82 12:00p
DONKEY BAS 3584 05-07-82 12:00p
CIRCLE BAS 1664 05-07-82 12:00p
PIECHART BAS 2304 05-07-82 12:00p
SPACE BAS 1920 05-07-82 12:00p
BALL BAS 2048 05-07-82 12:00p
COMM BAS 4352 05-07-82 12:00p
28 file(s) 147489 bytes
7168 bytes free
=========================================
Doug Coward dcoward(a)pressstart.com
Senior Software Engineer
Press Start Inc.
Sunnyvale,CA
Curator
Museum of Personal Computing Machinery
http://www.best.com/~dcoward/museum
=========================================
