test-drb

test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

101090 discussions

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< What's the best way to read N* DSDD CPM disks on a PeeCee? I download <22disk from Sydex, but the configuration file that lists the supported CP <types does not list Northstar. Maybe it's supported in the full version o <22disk. Anyone know? It's not possible. The format is HARD SECTOR and none of the softsector controllers can read it. There is no way to fiddle a PC controller to read it either. This is typical of most hard sector formats. Allison

28 years

IBM System/3 disk packs...

by DSEAGRAV＠toad.xkl.com

I got a few disk packs (RL02-style thingies) from an IBM System/3 (What's that?) Any chance of reading these on my PDP-11? One has the label SYSGEN on it... Anyone else capable of reading these? -------

28 years

11/34a help #2

by jpl15＠netcom.com

Thank you Tony, for your response. I will continue this here on the list for the possible benefit of other collectors... but private e-mail is welcome as well. (I am not re-posting my previous msgs or replies.. ) So: given an 11/34 with the regular (?) 9-slot system unit, from the right going left I have: cpu,cpu, console card+boot/term, 128Kmem, 128Kmem, slu/ltc, blank, blank, bus term. I removed the existing grant continuity cards. I have the printsets on these cards, and a selection of manuals, but not enough info to figure out the details of hardware config. As currently (above) set up, the machine is autisitic and the console malfunctions (no display and all leds lit dim. What is the deal with the slots? With the red/white guides? I can't remember or find out exactly *which* slots each module ought to be placed in. I have figured out the switch settings for the 9301 from the schematics, but it's the 48 on the SLU I'm scared of... any pointers to where I might find them listed? (DL11W, M7856) Thanks again... it's exciting to drag this thing out of it's coma.. JOhn

28 years

Prices to pay for old computers...

by JRichardson＠softwright.co.uk

>> Of the 16K-64K mb's there are reputed to have been two distinct series, >> called "Series 0" and "Series 1." A 16K, Series 0, no-floppy IBM PC is >> alleged to have sold at auction in the UK for over UKP 10,000 ....and my >> intuition (but no more than that) detects an institutional buyer. (And not >> auction like eBay -- auction like Christie's.) what were the differences between the two? I've got a 16KB model somewhere with cassette interface; it's got a floppy controller in it too, so I don't know whether that implies that the BIOS has been re-burnt at some point to handle this (it's funny joining this list - it's scary how much of this stuff I would have known at one point and have since forgotten!!). I seem to remember scrapping a good twelve or thirteen of these boxes a few years back working for a firm specialising in bringing old computer gear back to life (it was amazing how much strange stuff from the 70's and early 80's I saw pass through that place!). The local scrap dealer would only pay about 2 pounds for each system, so the whole lot just went in the skip out the back of the warehouse... it's funny how much perfectly good equipment I saw get slung out just because there wasn't space for it and we had several piles of spares, seems a shame considering that someone somewhere would have made use of it!! back on topic though, what cassette unit could be connected up to the original PC machines? Was it a custom IBM unit only (similar to the way the C64's only accept Commodore tape decks), or could anything be used if a cable was made up? cheers Jules >

28 years

Many interesting things learned today

by dastar＠wco.com

I met with my latest VCF2 speaker, Ray Holt, today, and boy does he have some stories to tell. The guy is amazing. His first commercial work was with AMI, which made microprocessors and custom logic back in the early 70's. Ray was responsible for the AMI 7200 and 7300 processors. AMI decided to drop their microprocessor line in the 1973 timeframe saying, according to Ray, that "there was no future in general purpose microprocessors, and everyone was moving towards custom controllers." :) Ray joined a consulting firm called Compata, Inc., and for a while he was working for Intel as a subcontractor with his soon-to-be business partner, Manuel Lemas, training engineers in different high-tech companies how to use the Intellec-4 (based on the Intel 4004). I only just learned that there was indeed an Intellec-4 from some material Ray gave me. Neat. He then went on to start his own company with Manny Lemas called Microcomputer Associates Inc. There he created the JOLT computer and later the Super JOLT. The JOLT was 6502 based and had a current loop and RS-232 interface. It also featured a ROM called the "DEMON" (DEbugger/MONitor). Tens of thousands were produced, and the JOLT is still in production today(!) used in embedded controller applications. Ray brought along the original JOLT prototype to show me. Two amazing things about this computer. It was made in the early-mid 1975 timeframe (very soon after the Altair hit the streets) and included a complete computer (CPU, RAM, ROM, current-loop/serial interface) on a PCB about 4"x8"! This is amazing for that timeframe. It could be expanded up to 64K with add-on RAM boards that piggy-backed to the main computer, and he also made Peripheral Interface Adapter (PIA) cards for it, as well as a cassette controller card that could control up to three data recorders on one board! The system he showed me had the interface board and two extra 4K RAM boards stacked with the main computer board. He also had a good story to tell. One day some guy named Steve Wozniak came by and bought a JOLT from him. A few months later he heard about the Apple 1, and then the Apple ][. Interesting, no? Ray later designed a computer called the VIM-1 (Versatile Interface Module). The VIM-1 was Ray's answer to the Mostek KIM-1. His company was then acquired by Synertek, and the VIM-1 was changed to the SYM-1. Ray brought along the 25,000th SYM-1 which was given to him as a token of achievement by Synertek. All the traces were etched with gold. Ray said there were about 50,000 SYM-1's produced (there was also a SYM-2) before Synertek folded. The story behind that is Synertek was bought by Honeywell, and Honeywell, through poor management, ran the Synertek division into the ground. Ray said there is still a guy running a company in San Jose with a name that has "SYM" in it (SYMCOM?) who still produces or maintains SYM-1 boards for the many, many clients who still have them in use. 50,000 units is a huge number, and this just makes me laugh harder when I hear about "collectors" paying $405 for a SYM-1 on eBay. PS. I ended up with an original copy of the SYM-1 schematics. Ray then told me his remarkable version of the origins of the TRS-80 Model 1. Ray's company was approached by Radio Shack to build a computer for them that they wanted to market. Ray put together a working prototype in about a week from scratch that included Micro-Soft BASIC, 4K RAM, an integrated monitor, and an integrated keyboard. He and Manny then flew to Texas to demonstrate the unit. The RS folks were thrilled, and asked if they could hold onto the unit for a few days to look it over. Without signing anything, Ray and Manny agreed and went back home. A few days passed and they hadn't heard anything from RS, so they called them up but were told to chill. More time had passed with no response from RS and they started getting anxious. Finally, after a month of calling to find out when they would get their computer back, a box arrived one day in the mail. In it was the remains of their prototype, hacked to pieces. It was obvious that it had been reverse engineered. A short while later, Ray found out that the computer RS decided to release as their TRS-80 Model 1 was based on the design Ray had come up with! They went to a lawyer but were told that there was nothing that could be done since they didn't even have a receipt for their plane ride to Texas signed-off by Radio Shack (they paid for the plane tickets themselves). Ray said he later learned that the project manager who Ray and Manny had dealt with took credit for the TRS-80 design! The guy took Ray's design and passed it on to corporate as his own! Comments from you RS-heads? Allison? Ward? Ray's had a very fruitful career, and is responsible for at least 3 of the true classics we collectors seek out. But of what I've told you here, it pales in comparison to the work Ray Holt did prior to his days at AMI. Of course this is a teaser. We're saving that for VCF2. So if you want to hear it first, make plans to come to VCF2. Otherwise, read about it in the papers. :) Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 05/11/98]

28 years

11/34a help

by jpl15＠netcom.com

Hello list. Having three (3!!) *entire* days off, I have decided to try and make one nice PDP11 system out of the various Bits and Pieces strewn about the place. And I have naturally run into a brick wall that I have not the knowledge or experience to scale. So I turn to the Experts and Gurus for a 'boost over'. I have two complete PDP11/34a systems and an 11/04, configured similarly with RK05s, RX01s and RL02s. One of these systems was actually working, and it's RK05 (0) died. In the (loooong) process of trouble shooting, I found that the entire system's DCLO line was the culprit, but after fixing that, the system never would boot out of ODT again... all ok, I'll deal with it later. Now later has come. I wish to have one working 11/34 system, with two RL02s, an RK05, a Decwriter III for the console, a Kennedy 9trk tape, a punch/reader, and at least one of the big SMD drives I have (System Industries 470MB Fujis) I have all of the above hardware save the formatter/IO for the Kennedy. Right now, I have a minimum system in a BA11 with the programmer's console: M8265 M8266 M7859 M9312 M7891 BF M7891 BF M7856 M9302 Power supplies have been checked are in spec. Bus grant cards are in (and undisturbed from when the thing actually used to *run) The DL11 is hooked to a known good VT100. On power-up, the Console shows all 0000000 and the 'Run' led... data can be entered into the disply but apparently not deposited... There is no SLU response on power-up, and I have an RS232 sniffer in the line and it indicates the proper static levels, but no data. I know this might not be enough info... but its a start. begin(whine) It's no fun having tons of gear in your living room if it just sits there whirring loudly... end(whine) Thanks in Advance John PS: Im trying to 'thin' my collection a little to concentrate on the PDP11 series... anyone in the SoCal area who would like to trade 'experience' for equipment... Mostly Plessey-badge Clones and probably the 11/04, various drives and bits and parts... I have a truck and can deliver... thanks

28 years

785 cc microcars (OT)

by thorh＠ismennt.is

At 14:59 23.5.1998 -0400, you wrote: >At 12:02 AM 5/23/98 -0700, you wrote: >>At 23:07 5/22/98 -0400, you wrote: >>>Yeah, but you Brits have got _weird_ concepts in transportation. >>>The Morris Minor for instance never should have been licensed as >>>an automobile -- a four-wheeled powered bicycle on its best day. >> >>Eee, lad, y're not up on yer British automotive innovation. The >>four-wheeled powered bicycle was the Berkeley Frisky. My other fave was >>the Ginetta 1600 R, which is what you got when you crossed a Ford Cortina >>with a bespoke tapered London suit. Then there was always, gawdelpus, the >>three-wheel Morgan. >>__________________________________________ >>Kip Crosby engine(a)chac.org >> http://www.chac.org/index.html >>Computer History Association of California >> > How about the Austin Seven, in which, if I have been informed correctly, >the oil would migrate up the steering column and drip into one's lap. > > Cheers > Charlie Fox ('52 MG TD owner) > Hey, that subject line really hit me head on, so I hereby break the rule not to engage in an off-topic subject. You see, I subscribe to those two lists: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu and suzuki4x4(a)unix.off-road.com and filter my E-Mail by the headers...... and then suddenly...... the exact displacement of my car engine shows up on the classiccmp list!! The car in question is a 1981, 785cc, Suzuki LJ-80, it's a kind of a micro-jeep really and it has no electronics whatsoever. Sorry, clearly off-topic but I just could not resist. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Thorhallur Ragnarsson Electronics Technician Bjarmastig 1 Verkmenntaskolinn Akureyri IS-600 AKUREYRI Box 280 Iceland IS-602 AKUREYRI E-Mail: thorh(a)ismennt.is Iceland --------------------------------------------------------------------

28 years

EMMATRONIC disk copy?

by thorh＠ismennt.is

Does anyone know a computer called EMMATRONIC? It was used as a control computer for knitting machines some 15-20 years ago, the mechanics of the knitting machines are running fine, but now there is only one reliable system/program disk left. The maker of the knitting machines is out of business some time ago and so will the knitting machines soon be if I can not make the owner a backup copy of the disk! I have been told it's some sort of Apple II for the European market but then again I might be totally wrong. I need to copy a 5.25" disk for this system, the format is unknown and unfortunately the disk is known to be protected somehow (at least the EMMATRONIC refuses to copy it) and also I have no working Apples. Any ideas/suggestions? thanks in advance. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Thorhallur Ragnarsson Electronics Technician Bjarmastig 1 Verkmenntaskolinn Akureyri IS-600 AKUREYRI Box 280 Iceland IS-602 AKUREYRI E-Mail: thorh(a)ismennt.is Iceland --------------------------------------------------------------------

28 years

Prices to pay for old computers...

by desieh＠southcom.com.au

-----Original Message----- From: Marty <Marty(a)itgonline.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Thursday, 21 May 1998 22:47 Subject: Re: Prices to pay for old computers... > Are you refering to the original 16KB-64KB motherboard 5150 PC or do > you mean the 64KB-256KB motherboard 5150 PC? I have only seen two > original 16KB-64KB 5150 PC's. I'm certain there must be plenty of them > out there but I never see them. I see the 64KB-256KB motherboard > 5150's everywhere. > > Marty > > > >______________________________ Reply Separator >_________________________________ >Subject: Prices to pay for old computers... >Author: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu at internet >Date: 5/21/98 5:45 AM > > > email: desieh(a)southcom.com.au > desieh(a)bigfoot.com > museum_curator(a)hotmail.com > Apple Lisa Web Page: > http://www.southcom.com.au/~desieh/index.htm > > > One of the best examples of this would be the original IBM PC....... > now apparently the dudes on ebay say $100 for a IBM PC well if you have one > in its original box will all manuals and > all original parts, manuals, disks etc this would be a reasobabley fair > price to pay. .999% of all IBM PC I come accross > have been upgraded, > treated badly, hacked, and far from thier original condiditon, and there are > no manuals in site.............. > but if you have one with only the CPU at that it well, perhaps $0-10 is a > fairer price........ > You cant just say that xxxxx computer is worh $xx amount...... you have to > allow for some systems that have manuals, disks, > boxes etc............. > > systhems in these conditions are few and far between............ > > this is just my opinion on the subject so I would like to hear other peoples > comments.............. > > > > > ------ Message Header Follows ------ > Received: from lists2.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com > (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) > id AA-1998May21.054516.1767.42801; Thu, 21 May 1998 05:45:16 -0400 > Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) > by lists2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with SMTP > id CAA21789; Thu, 21 May 1998 02:42:58 -0700 > Received: from mxu4.u.washington.edu (mxu4.u.washington.edu [140.142.33.8]) > by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP > id CAA29832 for <classiccmp(a)lists.u.washington.edu>; Thu, 21 May 1998 > 02:42:49 -0700 > Received: from hobart.southcom.com.au (root(a)hobart.southcom.com.au > [203.60.16.2]) > by mxu4.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.09) with ESMTP > id CAA14995 for <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>; Thu, 21 May 1998 02:42:47 > > -0700 > Received: from mr-ibm (pAc5.hbt.southcom.com.au [203.60.23.198]) > by hobart.southcom.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA13271 > for <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>; Thu, 21 May 1998 19:42:44 +1000 (EST) > Message-Id: <000e01bd849b$e5dcebe0$0f01a8c0@mr-ibm> > Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 19:36:13 +1000 > Reply-To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu > Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner(a)u.washington.edu > Precedence: bulk > From: "Desie Hay" <desieh(a)southcom.com.au> > To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" > <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Prices to pay for old computers... > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > X-To: <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > X-Priority: 3 > X-MSMail-Priority: Normal > X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 > X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN > yes I am talking about the original 16kb-64kb model............ I wounder how many IBM PCs are still out there with only cassette input and 16KB of RAM............ no floppy drives............. oh well

28 years

Converting 220 to 110

by dastar＠wco.com

Ok, I'm no electrical wiz. I have an old computer that wants 220. First of all, I got this computer without the 3-prong plug (it'd been cut off). Without paying attention to the "220" which was written on the transformer inside, I wired a plug onto the power cord and plugged it in. Needless to say the unit didn't come on, but I'm hoping that it didn't mess anything up. I wouldn't think it did. Anyway, what can I do to run this thing off of 110? The transformer has a solid black lead going to the black wire of the power cord (through the switch), a black lead with a white stripe looped back into the xformer via a white lead, and a blue lead with a white stripe connected to the red wire of the power cord (through the switch with an inline fuse...the fuse is fine). The side connected to the cpmputer board has a rainbow of seven colored wires in the order (from left to right): brown, red, orange, yellow, green, blue, violet. 1547 is stamped on the transformer. ?. I'd like to make this run off 110 without having to modify the actual unit itself. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 05/11/98]

28 years

Many interesting things learned today

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<was based on the design Ray had come up with! They went to a lawyer but <were told that there was nothing that could be done since they didn't eve <have a receipt for their plane ride to Texas signed-off by Radio Shack <(they paid for the plane tickets themselves). Ray said he later learned <that the project manager who Ray and Manny had dealt with took credit fo <the TRS-80 design! The guy took Ray's design and passed it on to <corporate as his own! < <Comments from you RS-heads? Allison? Ward? Close enough. The internal story was it was a design that was used on the deektop of an engineer whose last name began with an L. Somehow I didn't buy it. The TRS-80 design was not very imaginative and some of the holes showed. What was scary is if the guy that did the trs-80 design was good he could have reduced the logic some and also incresed the speed! Allison

28 years

Z80 disassembler for unix ?

by kroma＠worldnet.att.net

>I am looking for a free (gpl, etc) Z80 diassembler for unix (linux, if it >makes any difference). A quick web search has revealed nothing, but >before I write my own, I wonder if anyone else has come across anything. > Check out http://www.gr.osf.org/~emcmanus/programs/makedis.html -- Kirk

28 years

Prices to pay for old computers...

by fmc＠reanimators.org

I wrote: > Except...on a peculiar ISA dual-port serial card that HP made > for the early HP Vectras. One D?-9S like a PC/AT serial > port, one DB-25S. To be fair, HP put a plastic tag out one side > of the slot to remind you that this was a serial port. Doggone it, I screwed up. The 9-pin connector is male, the 25-pin connector is female. So what you had sticking through the back plate was a 9-pin connector on top, a 25-pin connector on bottom, and a little plastic tag with orange print to one side of the 25-pin connector reminding you that this was a serial port. Thinking about it this morning I think I also remember an HP serial/parallel card with male 9-pin serial connector on top and 25-pin female connector on bottom...and a little plastic tag with black print to one side of the 25-pin connector reminding you that this was a parallel port. Good thing we didn't have many of those latter ones around in my shop, I was (still am, actually) in the habit of feeling out connectors with my fingertips to work out where the plug is supposed to go. How did things get this way? Well, HP was in the habit of putting female connectors on everything except cables and making their minis look sort of like modems. I once heard this referred to as "DTE in DCE drag" w/r/t the HP3000. -Frank McConnell

28 years

Nasty little Sanyo (was Re:Original IBM PC (was Re: Prices to pay for old computers))

by scottk5＠ibm.net

-----Original Message----- From: Russ/Alice Blakeman [SMTP:rhblake@bbtel.com] Sent: Friday, May 22, 1998 9:06 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Re: Original IBM PC (was Re: Prices to pay for old ...... When I had this nasty little Sanyo MBC-55x machine....... Just saw one of these at a friend's place tonight and she was interested in getting rid of it. I think the model number was MBC-5510 (???). She said she also had a printer that came with it. What is it? What would be a reasonable price to offer for it? Kirk Scott scottk5(a)ibm.net

28 years

Questions, questions

by Marty＠itgonline.com

I was told that most of these were pitched when they were replaced due to security concerns. Any truth to this rumor? ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Questions, questions Author: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu at internet Date: 5/21/98 1:26 PM Marty wrote: > Speaking of Zenith 248 computers, does anybody have a guesstimate on > the amount of tempested Zenith 248's produced? They typically are > labelled Zenith Inteq. We had 25 of them in one course area on Chanute AFB prior to it's close and there were a lot of other secure areas that had requirements for them too. So just on one base you're probably looking at a few thousand. I don't even want to guess what the overall number was just for the USAF let alone the entire production cycle of the Inteq. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake(a)bbtel.com or rhblake(a)bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- ------ Message Header Follows ------ Received: from lists2.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) id AA-1998May21.132642.1767.42874; Thu, 21 May 1998 13:26:43 -0400 Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with SMTP id KAA10134; Thu, 21 May 1998 10:24:22 -0700 Received: from mxu2.u.washington.edu (mxu2.u.washington.edu [140.142.32.9]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP id KAA83352 for <classiccmp(a)lists.u.washington.edu>; Thu, 21 May 1998 10:24:10 -0700 Received: from bnllc2.blue.net (www.cruciblemagnetics.com [206.65.217.154]) by mxu2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.09) with ESMTP id KAA23448 for <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>; Thu, 21 May 1998 10:24:09 -0700 Received: from bbtel.com (brand238.blue.net [206.65.221.238]) by bnllc2.blue.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA14120 for <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>; Thu, 21 May 1998 12:24:37 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <35646348.5AF29E7E(a)bbtel.com> Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 12:24:24 -0500 Reply-To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner(a)u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: Russ/Alice Blakeman <rhblake(a)bbtel.com> To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Subject: Re: Questions, questions References: <1998May21.083932.1767.105139(a)smtp.itgonline.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN

28 years

Vax 785 and microcode

by DSEAGRAV＠toad.xkl.com

Here's a quote from a DEC manual I have: "The VAX 785 features fast RAM microcode..." Does that mean the 785 loads all it's microcode from the floppy? I've located the rest of a VAX 785 CPU, and I can have it, but the brakes in my car have failed (Rather spectacularly, I might add...) so they'll have to wait a day or two... Another thing: The emergency brakes in a Chevy Sprint will NOT stop the car in a hurry. They will, however, cause the car to SKID in a hurry... (No, I didn't hit anyone. But I did scare the bejesus out of myself.) -------

28 years

[Rare systems] & Garry Kildor

by bwit＠pobox.com

The following quote is from Forbes Magazine 80th anniversary issue: "On July 6, 1994 Kildall, 52, walked into a Monterey bar. He was wearing motorcycle leathers with Harley-Davidson patches-a would-be biker. There were some real bikers in the bar. Something was said. There was pushing and shoving, and Kildall died from injuries sustained to his head. An inquest called the death 'suspicious,' but no one was charged." Bob ---------- From: Ward Donald Griffiths III[SMTP:gram@cnct.com] Sent: Friday, May 22, 1998 8:53 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Re: [Rare systems] & Garry Kildor Desie Hay wrote: > >I'm sure a lot of people wish Bill Gates were in Gary's shoes (so to > speak). > > > > > well yes I suppose........but didnt Garry get killed in a bar fight a few > years ago??? No, he died of a heart attack after a good number of years on the PBS "Computer Chronicles" show. > No old Billy Gates has brought some good into this world............ > but 99.9999% of what he has done is just to steal and steal.......... Bill Gates and I are a month apart in age. My zits cleared up, he became a billionaire. I guess we're even. -- Ward Griffiths They say that politics makes strange bedfellows. Of course, the main reason they cuddle up is to screw somebody else. Michael Flynn, _Rogue Star_

28 years

Prices to pay for old computers...

by cgregory＠lrbcg.com

There were several manufacturers who made drives for the Commodore line of computers. I have two or three examples around here someplace. Chinon is a name that comes to mind, but I know there were several more as well. Cliff Gregory cgregory(a)lrbcg.com -----Original Message----- From: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> To: Cgregory <Cgregory> Date: Saturday, May 23, 1998 2:34 AM Subject: Re: Prices to pay for old computers... >Well, if you're alluding to the Disk ][, this was not an effort by Apple >to be "non-standard", but was basically due to the brilliant hacks of >Steve Wozniak in adding an inexpensive and simple disk controller to the >Apple ][. And as far as aftermarket goes, I can't think of even one drive >that was made to work on any Commodore that wasn't manufactured by >Commodore, but I myself have at least five examples of disk drives made >for the Apple by random no name manufacturers. > >Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- >Ever onward. > > September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 > See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! > [Last web page update: 05/11/98] > >

28 years

cat Xerox | Apple | Microsoft ?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<I whole-heartedly, unequivocally agree. But you're discounting Linux. <I'm surprised. Five years from now Windows' dominance will be a <non-issue. The world will have been made much more colorful and free by <Linux. I hope you believe me because I'd hate to prove you wrong in fiv <year's time (plus I need to get a win after being called on my "bzzt" fo <being wrong about the origins of Unix :) Linux is free and it may be better (it's abosolute hell to install) but Linux is not the default OS on every wintel box nor io it it shipped with more than a fraction of a percent of them. Also for those interested in running the small landslide of apps out there for DOS/WINDERS Linux is a non player. Why do I say that, I have linux, it doesn't run PADS, Gcadd, most of my cross assemblers and a few other apps I depend on. I've tried, even WP5/dos under linux is strange and tends to die. Setting up an IP network is pure hell compared to setting up DECNET. Like win95 and later it also requires more than the 8mb of ram I have or it runs poorly. It's windowing system is a hog (I'm used to running VMS/DECwindows and a half dozen engineers in 8mb on a VAX!). Linux(freeBSD, netBSD, Minix etal) is not the cure all, its a good competitor and offers things for some users that would otherwise have to run NT(even nastier) but, it's not engineerd for the common user. Then again, I've never installed a W95 system nor will I anytime soon. I do run W3.1 and compared to doing a dos6.22/w3.1 (or VMS) install linux is very painful and unpleasent. There is a lot to be fixed for the user that want's to run stuff rather than run make files. Like it or not a software investment determines the value of an OS in the long run. It's why I also run CP/M-80 still. This is computer history, it's also how we have the Y2k problem and some pretty dumb software as well. Allison

28 years

Cassette formats (was: Prices to pay for old computers...)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<At one time or another, I was struck by the similarity of the CoCo's <cassette format and the now-ancient Kansas City Standard. Were they <actually identical? Did RS implement the KCS for the CoCo, or was it <just something kinda similar? And if TRS-80-->CoCo and CoCo-->KCS, <does that mean that maybe IBM just adopted KCS instead of making up <their own format? (A shocking idea, I admit...) Unless the character rate was 300baud it wasn't true KCS. The only one I know for sure that was 300baud was the trs-80 L1 basic as L2 was faster data rate. They could have copied the data format or even the encoding but I'm fairly sure most were faster tha 300 baud used far less hardware (usually a output bit or two and an input bit) plus code to make it fly. I used to use a non redundant version of KCS that I did in software for 8085 and the like at 1200 baud, retaining the self clocking FM that KCS is. At one point I'd tried pushing and 4800baud FM worked rather well on a really good mono tape recorder, 10 KC is a resonable upper limit for good tape and heads even though most go to 12-17khz. As I could count on at least one edge per bit and if an edge did not occur for 2 bit times it's was an error (drop out or noise). Allison

28 years, 1 month

Prices to pay for old computers...

by desieh＠southcom.com.au

-----Original Message----- From: Kip Crosby <engine(a)chac.org> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Saturday, 23 May 1998 2:09 Subject: RE: Prices to pay for old computers... >At 16:31 5/22/98 +0100, you wrote: >>back on topic though, what cassette unit could be connected up to the >>original PC machines? Was it a custom IBM unit only (similar to the way >>the C64's only accept Commodore tape decks), or could anything be used >>if a cable was made up? > >There was a discussion on here a while back about whether IBM had ever made >cassette decks to attach to that port, and IIRC, the outcome was >inconclusive. If such a thing existed, certainly there were never many of >them. In general, the favorite commodity cassette recorder for the purpose >was one of the long Panasonics with the carrying handle. >__________________________________________ >Kip Crosby engine(a)chac.org > http://www.chac.org/index.html >Computer History Association of California > > email: desieh(a)southcom.com.au desieh(a)bigfoot.com museum_curator(a)hotmail.com Apple Lisa Web Page: http://www.southcom.com.au/~desieh/index.htm yes a cable is needed on one end it has the plug for the IBM and on the other it has 2 connectors for the input and output on the cassette player....

28 years, 1 month

1.2Mb Teac Floppy Question

by healyzh＠ix.netcom.com

OK, the drive isn't a classic, but the computer it's going into definitly is. I finally got the CatWeasel Controller for the Amiga that I've been wanting. I'm putting it in a A2000 since that's the only thing I've got that can take a 5 1/4" floppy drive. I picked up a new Teac FD55BV-16-U floppy drive, and can't seem to get it to work with the controller. I think the problem is that I need to change the jumper settings. So I'm wondering if anyone has the jumper settings for one of these drives. As for the CatWeasel Controller, it's a controller that allows you to use normal PC floppy drives on an Amiga (they also make a PC version). It has the added benifit of being able to read numerous disk formats, which is why I got it. Once I get it figured out I'll write up a review for the list since I think it might be of serious intrest to every one here as a way to copy old floppies onto an archival CD-R or whatever media you want. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | | For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html |

28 years, 1 month

Z80 disassembler for unix ?

by ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk

A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 309 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980524/bbd8d5a5/at…

28 years, 1 month

Voltages on S/34 DC distribution panel

by DSEAGRAV＠toad.xkl.com

The plate at the very top of this assembly is +5V distribution. The smaller plate just below and left of it is the O/C Sense Plate. Pins on middle DC panel: +5 VDC Feature PS B +12VDC Feature PS A +12VDC Feature PS A (Or regulator) ditto -4VDC base -4vdc base +6vdc base -5vdc base ditto ditto +8.5 vdc base ditto +24VDC base ditto -24VDC base The bottom panel is the Feature Distribution Assembly Pins: +5VDC Feature PS C ditto +8.5VDC +12VDC -5VDC -12VDC +5VDC Feature PS D ditto There! This came from the IBM System/34 5340 System Unit Maintenance Manual. (SY31-0457-5) -------

28 years, 1 month

cat Xerox | Apple | Microsoft ?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

I'll make this the last rant on list... However I invite off list discussion. It's a matter of keeping the on list comments "classic". I don't hate unix, it does dissappoint me that with all the hoopla installation is not better explained. IE: installation for non unix weenies. There is little attempt to communicate in such a way that doesn't assume unix socialized as the norm. I did pick up Linux for Dummies to get Redhat that comes with it and it was at least more direct. <Believe me when I tell you (and I can only back this up with gut <instincts) that it doesn't matter. The world is changing, and if nothin <than by sheer force of will, Linux will prevail, or in the very least <crush the MS monopoly. I think it is not far fetched in the least to <imagine in five years that manufactures like Dell and Compaq and Gateway <will start selling Linux boxes, as long as the DOJ is reasonably They already do but by MS license they can put linix in it and still pay MS. Till that stops they will be dos boxen. <Well, I don't know what you're doing wrong but I've run a Linux box on a <486/33 with 8MB and it screamed. As for the apps not being available, <either give it time or bite the bullet and write them yourself and <contribute them to the linux collective. That's what its all about! I'm not in business to write schematic capture or PCB routing software. If I did I'd do it on the VAX before I would for a PC. <You've got to check out Applixware! All I say to this is "...yet!" Thi <may not all be true yet, but its happening. Linux is becoming easier fo <even the common turd to use. Like I said, give this time. Five years. I just recently got REDhat version to try in place of the former slackeware and it's easier to install but known solid dos apps still die in the middle and the few windows apps are unusable. The install was easier and it supported fewer devices. The docs were nearly current and I'm still trying to understand configuring IP networking. It's potential is there, the implimentation is still "you gotta be a unix head". I still find the idea of device drivers as part of the kernel requiring a compile to install some new device odious. Loadable drivers are done in many OSs. This last item is wy PCs with their nearly the same with millions of subtle versions either run well or just sorta. I run a PC to do work, I really don't like the cpu or programming it. If I'm going to write code it's for embedded hardware or 8048, 8751, z280, z8000 maybe pdp-11 or VAX. Allison

28 years, 1 month

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