<And I'm not sure if the RLV11 works in 22 bit addressing systems (Tim?
<Allison?) I've only got 18 bit addressing CPUs here.
The RLV11 is not q22 and MUST have a Q/CD backplane.
Allison
I got a non-DEC PDP-11/73 today minus the CPU (not a big deal, I saw the
CPU that had been in it, and I've got two of them). Anyway I've managed to
identify all of the haul of boards, except the RAM boards. I was told they
are 2Mb boards but the person wasn't sure. Also I'm wondering if anyone
has the switch settings for them.
The board in question is labled:
NSC NS23D
It also has three jumpers near the contacts.
Zane
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator |
| healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast |
| healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ |
| For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. |
| see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html |
I'd just like to say... THE /73 BOOTS FROM TAPE!!!
On the downside, I haven't any idea what to do. I was able to get 7 RL-02
packs, some of which are supposedly bootable, and a stack of TK-50's
yesterday, but the documentation had been trashed. :^( He still had the
binders, and there must have been 3-4 feet of docs at one time :^(
So bear with me, I've not got any documentation (donations gladly accepted :^)
The tape boots up to the following:
-------
RSX-11M/RSX-11M-PLUS Standalone Copy System V03
RSX-11M/RSX-11M-PLUS Standalone Configuration and Disk Sizing Program
Valid Switches are:
/CSR=nnnnnn to change the default CSR
/VEC=nnn to change the default device vector
/FOR=n to change the default magtape formatter number
/DEV to list all default device CSR and vectors
Enter first device:
-------
I went ahead and told it /DEV and it printed out a list of different
devices stating what was present. It sees my Hard Drive and the TK50. The
question is, what is this, and what do I do? I just tried entering 'DU0:'
and it took that, but that seems to be the limit of my ability to fathom it
out.
BTW I pulled the RL-02 controller out that I was asking about earlier for this.
Zane
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator |
| healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast |
| healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ |
| For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. |
| see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html |
FOR SALE
Panasonic Sr. Partner XT (8088) class "portable" computer. Great
condition, works great. 2 - 5.25" 360k floopy drives, 512k RAM, 8 bit
ISA card slot, composite 9: green CGA monitor and external CGA port.
Serial and parallel ports. Built in keyboard. NO built in printer.$45
plus shipping (about 25 lbs)
For picture and other info see
http://members.tripod..com/~RHBLAKE/fleamarket.html
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Russ Blakeman
RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144
Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991
Email: rhblake(a)bbtel.com or rhblake(a)bigfoot.com
Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/
ICQ UIN #1714857
AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN"
* Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers*
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Found on Usenet. One of our fellow collectors in Budapest needs help
with, of all things, a Russian version of a MicroPDP-11/23.
If anyone can help him along, please contact him directly. Thanks!
Attachment follows.
-=-=- <snip> -=-=-
From: hamster(a)lord.banki.hu (Akos Varga)
Newsgroups: vmsnet.pdp-11
Subject: Knowledge on soviet uPDP models?
Date: 31 May 1998 14:00:03 GMT
Organization: Banki Donat Polytechnic, Budapest
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <6krnp3$rhv$1(a)goliat.eik.bme.hu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: lord.banki.hu
X-Newsreader: TIN [UNIX 1.3 unoff BETA release 960804]
Path:
blushng.jps.net!news.eli.net!news-sea-20.sprintlink.net!207.12.55.130!news-west.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.erols.net!surfnet.nl!news-ge.switch.ch!news.bme.hu!lord.banki.hu!not-for-mail
Does someone with some knowledge of the russian MicroPDP models
reads this group? I acquired a machine called MIKI Micro 11/23
System 2500 Team Computer, and it seems it has a russian F-11-clone
CPU and some rather strange cards with cyrillian letters on it. The
cards are probably from the Soviet company "Elektronika". Now I'm
not familiar with these cards, although I could identify them. I'd
like to make this machine working again, can someone provide me with
some information on how to do this? If yes I can write down all
boards and the components on them...
This is gettinig iteresting, a soviet uPDP :)
/ ___ _ _ ___ ____ ___ ___
/__//__///_///__ / /_ / ) Varga Akos Endre hamster(a)netweb.hu
/ // // /___/ / /__ / ( www.netweb.hu/hamster/english.html
----------------------------------------------------------------------
PDP 11 Page http://www.netweb.hu/hamster/pdp-11/
Old Irons http://www.netweb.hu/hamster/oldiron/e_index.html
----------------------------------------------------------------------
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Bruce Lane, SysOp,
The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fido 1:343/272)
kyrrin {at} j<p>s d[o]t n=e=t
"...No matter how hard we may wish otherwise, our science can only describe
an object, event, or living creature, in our own human terms. It cannot possibly
define any of them!..."
At 12:56 AM 5/31/98 -0500, Doug Yowza wrote:
>>
>> Not to mention some undoubtedly fascinating volumes on traffic
>> signals.
>
>I actually felt a little guilty about that. Supposedly, that's how
>Microsoft got its start, right?
I think Gates & Allen's first "company" was "Traf-o-data", run on
someone else's PDP equipment. I recall it was analyzing traffic
data. I only remember because about the same time, I was doing
nearly the same thing as my Eagle Scout project, summarizing
traffic and accident data for a city. Gates and Foust, the
ominous parallels, oh yeah. :-)
- John
Doug Yowza <yowza(a)yowza.com> writes:
> I bumped into Frank "Reanimator" McConnell and Paul "Sun Worshiper" Coad
> today, and while Paul scrounged for Sun parts, Frank and I did the
> "one for you, one for me" thing over a pile of old^H^H^H classic books.
> We both left behind the most complete Modula-2 library I have ever seen,
Not to mention some undoubtedly fascinating volumes on traffic
signals. Here's what seems to have followed me home:
Arithmetic Operations in Digital Computers, Richards, 1955
Computer System Organization: The B5700/B6700 Series, Organick, 1973
(Oooh! Another stack machine!)
Currents in the Theory of Computing, Aho (ed.), 1973
Decimal Computation, Schmid, 1974
Implementing Software for Non-Numeric Applications, Waite, 1973
Information Theory and Coding, Abramson, 1963
Internal Sorting Methods Illustrated with PL/1 Programs, Rich, 1972
Low Density Parity-Check Codes, Gallager, 1963
Microprogramming Primer, Katzan, 1977
Sequential Machines: Selected Papers, Moore (ed.), 1964
Systems Programming, Donovan, 1972
Oh, and the IEEE 802.2 (LLC), 802.4 (token bus), and 802.5 (token
ring) standards. Curiously enough, I was looking for the first of
these at work this week, and the last one may be of use to me too.
> After I get my study-at-home PhD in Obsolete Hardware Engineering, I'd be
> happy to loan/trade/sell a few of these titles.
Similar offer: if you're in the San Francisco Bay Area and have an
interest in these, ask, I'm willing to loan them out. Maybe even if
you're not in the Bay Area and can convince me that sending them is
a worthwhile thing to do. I definitely want to read the Organick
book first, though.
-Frank McConnell
<I just lucked into a few 8008's and they don't use a date code I
<recognize. Can somebody interpret for me:
< 1209A
< 0276R
< 1464B
<
unknown. Tempting to find one and put it in a board I have from '74.
<BTW, the chips are stamped C8008. Is there any significance to the "C"?
Cermet, ceramic/metal package. The I8008 were silicone plastic. they are
intel parts either way.
Allison
<That I'd heard before, which is why I'm so supprised by the
<hardware-encoded keyboard in an otherwise software-driven machine.
Things you cant do with a software scanned keyboard:
Key pressed interrupt, if the cpu doesn't scan the keyboard it cannot
sense activity. It takes some chips extra then to sense any key pressed
and cause a interupt to initiate a keybard scan and debounce routine
to see what happend.
The keyboard chips did n-key rollover and buffered at least one
keystroke.
Fewer signal carrying wires in the air, the keyboard encoders were slow
and didn't create much RFI, scan lines off the bus or a port can be quite
noisy.
Allison
Roger Ivie <IVIE(a)cc.usu.edu> wrote:
> Wordstar on the Otrona Attache was also very WYSIWYG because the Otrona
> could do any video attribute Wordstar every dreamed of: italics, underline,
> strikethrough, bold, etc.
See what happens on this list? If you aren't careful, you can learn
something new every day!
I stand corrected; I used Wordstar on less-capable video. And now
I'm wondering whether I could get Wordstar on the HP150 to do this
sort of thing....
-Frank McConnell
As of about 10 minutes ago, I am no longer a high school student.
I graduated :) I come back here next year as part of the staff.
They're hiring me to run the TCP/IP equipment. And, my 11/44 still
has a home...
-------
Try looking at http://www.heathkit.com/parts.html for parts and repair
centers also to get old manuals and scimatics look at bottom of the url
page phone 616-925-5899
At 10:06 PM 29/05/98 -0500, you wrote:
>On Fri, 29 May 1998, Joe wrote:
>
>> Yes, but are they still valid if the owner is out of business? I know
>> the HK manuals are WIDELY copied and the copies sold. So are Tektronix, HP
>> and a lot of others, and they're still in business!
>
>Heathkit *is* still in business, just not quite the same business:
> http://www.heathkit.com
>
>-- Doug
>
>
>
At 05:19 PM 5/30/98 -0500, you wrote:
>I just lucked into a few 8008's and they don't use a date code I
>recognize. Can somebody interpret for me:
> 1209A
> 0276R
> 1464B
>
>BTW, the chips are stamped C8008. Is there any significance to the "C"?
>
>-- Doug
>
Don't know about the date code, but for Intel the "C" means ceramic package,
vs. P, plastic. The "H" is a Hermetic (2 pieces of ceramic that look like
they are cemented together). I think "C" is the only version the 8008 came in.
-Dave
Hi all,
I went to a surplus store last week and found an odd Atari box. It says
it's an Automatic ROM/RAM Tester. It has two rows of address switches, one
switches on one row are labeled 10 through 0 and have LEDs above them. The
second row of switches only has five switches and they marked 11 through 15
and don't have corrosponding LEDS. Switch 11 is directly below switch 10,
switch 12 is below switch 9, and so on. It looks like they may be
multiplexed somehow. The box also has 8 Data switches and LEDs. The are
four low insertion force sockets on the box, two are for 25 pin DIPs and 2
are for 20 pin DIPs. There are also various other switchs marked 1K/2K,
RUN/STOP, Read/R/W*, and GAME/BOX. There is only one connector on the box,
it goes to a 50 pin card edge connector via a ribbon cable. There are no
power connectors or other connectors on it so it has to part of a larger
unit. Any ideas? Anyone?
Joe
I had just read the interview oyu mention yesterday. Could someone
give me some idea of what chips were involved in this thing? Did it
use PROMs, microcontrollers, or what? How can you make a game with
44 chips (not an expression of disbelief)?
>
>> It's reasonably obvious from looking at the design of all Apple ][
series
>> machines and their peripherals that they were designed to use the
>> simplest hardware possible. Things like the 'minimalist' disk
controller,
>> the bit-banger serial port and the Apple ][ I/O structure support
this.
>>
>> Why therefore did all Apple ][s use a hardware encoded keyboard with
a
>> fairly complex (and expensive) encoder IC? Software scanning would
have
>> been simpler in the hardware, not added much to the software, and
would
>> have been more versatile in many ways (the single-wire shift key mod
>> wouldn't have been necessary).
>
>At the time (mid-70's), surplus keyboards with ASCII encoded parallel
>outputs were readily available from many sources. Check, for example,
>the ads in the back of a '75 or '76 _Radio-Electronics_, or see
>many of the articles in the early _BYTE_'s. According to interviews
>with Wozniak (for example, _BYTE 1984:12 p.167), it was no big
>deal to find such a keyboard, put the right plug on the end, and
>plug it in (he says, of the Apple I, "You also had
>to get a keyboard and wire it into a 16-pin DIP connector".)
>
>Apple II motherboards were also available without a case or keyboard
>or power supply, and many hobbyists bought these as a way of saving
>a couple of bucks.
>
>Why use an encoder IC? Yes, it is cheaper if you skip this and
>have the CPU scan the keyboard. But encoder IC's weren't expensive
>at the time, and were an extremely common industry-standard
>solution; see, for example, Don Lancaster's _TTL Cookbook_ to get
>an idea at how readily available such encoders were in the mid-70's.
>
>Wozniak often did go for non-industry-standard solutions to
>peripheral interfacing, but generally only when it reduced the
>chip count. It seems to me that the encoder-IC approach to a
>keyboard has a lower part count than if you use SSI TTL IC's to let
>the CPU scan the keyboard.
>
>Chip count was an extremely important thing to Wozniak; for example,
>in the same interview I referenced before, he says
>
>"Nolan Bushnell
>was really annoyed because all their new games were coming out at 150-
>170 chips. He wanted low chip counts to reduce costs,
>and he had seen a version of Pong that I had done, that only used
>about 30 chips. He appreciated that. So he said if we could design
>a hardware Breakout in under 50 chips, we'd get 700 bucks; and if
>it was under 40 chips, we'd get $1000. ... We gave them a working
>breadboard for it. My first design was 42 chips. By the
>time we got it working it was 44, but we were so tired we
>couldn't cut it down. So we only got 700 bucks for
>it."
>
>Tim. (shoppa(a)triumf.ca)
>
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Hi all,
I first discovered digital logic and TTL IC's about 1973, and wanted to
build something not trivial with them. The project I chose was John Conway's
game of "life" as described in Martin Gardner's Mathematical Games in
"Scientific American"
I ending using a 32x32 element grid using 2 (then expensive!) 2102 rams (No
A or other suffix then) I would calculate one generation from one ram and
write to the other. I used about a 60kHz clock and 74193 counters to
generate the addresses. The clock went to a decade counter and the first 8
states generated +/- x and y clocks to visit the 8 neighbors of a given
cell. If the cell was a "1", another counter was incremented, number of
neighbors. The 9'th state was at the given cell.
The rule was then used: Neighbors =2 and cell active, or Neighbors = 3, then
the new cell was active, otherwise it was not. The 10'th clock wrote the
cell to the new generation (the other ram). Thus 10 clock cycles were needed
for each cell, or 10240 for each generation. This was much faster than a
later 4MHz Z-80 program!
I displayed the results on a 5 inch oscilloscope, using 555 timers with PNP
transistor current sources to charge the timing capacitor, for x and y ramp
or deflection waveforms. This was straight out of a National Semiconductor
databook. The refresh rate was about 60Hz. The "load" signals for the
74193's was used to write data into locations from address switches. Finally
3 7490's and 7447's displayed the generation number on 7 segment displays.
It was fun to watch the generations flash by. The total number of IC's was
about 35 + 6 for the generation counter.
-Dave
I recently found a Convergent computer in a surplus store here. It has the
display section, CPU section and hard drive in blocks that attach to each
other and looks like it uses some kind of external power supply. Each
block had a model number on it but the only one that I remember was CP-001
on the CPU. Anyone know what this thing is and wheather it's worth picking
up?
Joe
At 10:36 PM 5/29/98 -0400, you wrote:
>
>Hi.
>
>I recently picked up some more Convergent machines at a thrift shop. I was
>pretty amazed; my 186 model was the only one I'd ever seen. Now I've got
>286 and 386 models. Wow!
>
>Anyway, I also picked up a few disk modules. Two 85 MB modules, I think.
>(compare to my existing pair of 10 MB modules...) One is an 'expansion'
>and needs to be connected to another disk module to work.
>
>My problem is this: the one disk that has CTOS installed was set up as a
>'Cluster Controller' and actually has accounts and passwords set up. I can
>just press 'Go' at the login on my CM001 and use the system. This doesn't
>work on the new system.
>
>Is there a way I can recover the files on this disk (meaning the OS and
>application software)? I have OS disks for the standalone version, but I'd
>like to preserve the cluster controller so starting over is a
>less-than-ideal option. I do have other working systems and parts
>available to press into service for the cause.
>
>Thoughts, hints, suggestions?
>
>ok
>r.
>
>
>
<> Found a DELL 316(386sx/16), has 5.25 360k, 1.44 floppy, 170mb IDE with
<>
<> QUESTION: is there a CMOS and how do I access it?
<
<Should be CTL-ALT-ENTER if I remember correctly. Once you're at DOS you c
That was the winner, thanks. I should have specifed that it was a Pheonix
bios machine.
FYI it's a great Minix machine! For those that are interested there is
a site on the net (http://minix1.hampshire.edu). Bins and sources are
available on the net. It can be run on anything from an XT to P6.
There is also a book Operating Systems design and Implmentation 2nd
Edition with CDrom of sources and bins.
Allison
This is fairly recent so please reply offlist.
Found a DELL 316(386sx/16), has 5.25 360k, 1.44 floppy, 170mb IDE with
a DEC color tube and keyboard. It runs so it's going to become a minix or
linux machine.
QUESTION: is there a CMOS and how do I access it?
Allison
<Tandy had little input into the design really), it was a fine machine.
<OS-9 on the CoCo was the first real OS I ever used - it taught me a lot
<about writing device drivers, multitasking, etc. And the CoCo3 (alas not
<at all common in the UK) was a very interesting box.
OS9, I've heard a little about it but never seen it. Is it available?
I have a COCO (I think a III, has a few ASICs and 128k), no disk
controller but that can't be much majik.
<And don't forget the 3rd party software for the Z-80 machines. LDOS was
<arguably the finest Z80 operating system at the time - it was a lot
What ever happend to LDOS?
Allison
Many thanks to the Listmembers who have offered suggestions and
assistance and info.. I have discovered (and rectified) the problem
with my RK05 talking to it's host.
I could get into a long shaggy-dog story here, but basically I had
the *drive* end of the interface cable in bass-ackward.
>>> DOH! <<<
(Lame excuse: it's the end you can't see)
And now the terminal sez:
RT-11SJ V02C-02
.
kewl, huh?
And, even though the problem turned out to be a forehead-slapper, I
must say that I have learned great gobs of stuff about how the drive
works, how it interfaces, and what makes it tick. I would *never*
have had the opportunity to get such (rare) understanding, had it
not been for the long diagnostic journey. And that is one of my
goals in collecting these things: to know them well enough to keep
them on the air, and to be able to share that knowledge with others
in return.
Thanks to Tony Duell, Tim Shoppa, Ward Griffiths, and Huw Davies for
their generous assistance.
Now: get the RL02s on-line, find formatter for the Kennedy 9trk,
find an interface for the System Industries 470M drive, get Unix
running, &tc; &tc; &tc.
But.. TRW Ham/Electronic/Computer swapmeet is tomorrow, the 28th
(Sat) here in SoCal... and I'm heading that way... to find all the
goodies before Marvin has a chance at them.
;}
Cheers
John
Another trio of questions. I am reading Steven Levy's Insanely Great,
about the making of the Apple Mac.
1)I finally have learned the purpose of Quickdraw through this book.
Do all windowing systems do this, or are there ones that render all
windows even if they are obscured. The name of the system I want to
know about ought not be mentioned for obvious reasons.
2)It mentioned a "new input device" that was before the Xerox machine,
to be used alongside the mouse, was flexible but required training.
What was it?
3)Should I keep my reference cards attached to the manuals or tear
them off?
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I took out from the library a sort of collection: 20 years of byte
with some historic articles, ads ,etc. from BYTE's point of view in
1994. I liked the timeline, but the articles are very boring and
technical. One of the IBM ads says,"The IBM Personal Computer starts
at less than $1600 for a system that, with the addition of one simple
device, hooks up to your home TV and uses your audio cassette
recorder" (1982:1p61). Would this one device be a TRS-80?
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