G'day.
In the last large haul I made (which included an Eclipse S/130 and
a Nova 4) for my collection, I acquired a little RCA terminal which
bills itself as an "Office Appliance". It's quite clearly a small
video terminal and seems to be based around the 1801 microprocessor.
I'm wondering if anybody has the manuals for the little beast and
can tell me what the power supply puts out, and on what pins (it's
got a DIN connector on the back labelled "power"). I'd sort of like to
fire it up and see how it works.
Thanks!
______________________________________________________________________
| | |
| Carl Richard Friend (UNIX Sysadmin) | West Boylston |
| Minicomputer Collector / Enthusiast | Massachusetts, USA |
| mailto:carl.friend@stoneweb.com | |
| http://www.ultranet.com/~engelbrt/carl/museum | ICBM: N42:22 W71:47 |
|________________________________________________|_____________________|
At 12:42 PM 6/12/98 -0700, you wrote:
>> Found a stack of AT&T computers. Some are labelled "PC 6300" (The unix PC,
>> iirc?) but others are marked "6300 WGS", a designation I've not heard of
>
>The 6300 WGS (Work Group Server) was a tower cased system that was not
These were (I'm pretty sure) desktops, almost identical to the PC 6300's,
only wiht a cream colored front.
--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-
Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/
At 03:14 PM 6/12/98 -0400, you wrote:
><Does anyone know of a *cheap* source of a VGA-compatible display? What I
><looking for, especially, is low power usage, followed by compactness and
><portability. Thanks!
>
>I'm also interested in same and know someone that might like info.
>There is a truck load of applications for a cheap/compact/lowpower
>VGA display.
>
>Allison
Geez, Allison, If I was a EE god like yourself, I'd grab me a coupla
busted|older laptops and build an interface for the LCD screens. 8^)
--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-
Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/
Sounds vaguely familiar, I remember two versions of the 2100s one had a black front panel w/red lights, the other one had a beige front panel. They were the CPU of HP2000 timesharing systems. They were pretty neat for their time (mid-70s) and I did my first "on-line" programming on them.
The earlier ones boot off of paper tape, then the new technology... mylar oooh! I don't remember if they ever got weaned off tape booting though. Once you logged in you were at the command line and in a basic interpreter. They introduced me to instant gratification programming vs. waiting a day or so for the cards and the printout to come back or having to wire boards.
Oh, yea... if it's one of the older ones, when the big oil filled capacitor goes in one of the disk drives the vented panel provides for spectacular visuals!
If you don't want it, please let me know the details on it.
-----Original Message-----
From: museum(a)techniche.com [SMTP:museum@techniche.com]
Sent: Saturday, June 13, 1998 3:36 PM
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
Subject: Re: New toy, HP Apollo 4500, and it's broken...
This is somewhat tangential, but I suspect whoever is
reading about HP Apollo's may be able to contribute.
I came across a rack mount system in the local surplus
store. The faceplate reads "HP 2100c Programmable
Microcomputer System".
Any ideas what this is? Worth picking up?
Jon
>>
>> <I got a apollo 4500.
>> <It has a 68030 inside, and a 700-someodd meg MFM (?) harddisk.
>>
>> More likely SCSI (single 50pin cable) or EDSI (two cables like MFM).
>> MFM drives topped out at 160mb or so, EDSI went to at least 400mb maybe
>> higher.
>
>Definitely ESDI or SCSI. Although they could have had SMD or ESMD
>as well.
>
>>
>> <I have no idea what it runs. This one has a SummaSketch pad with it.
>> <It was used for CAD stuff.
>>
>> Some kind of unix.
>
>Possibly, though the Apollo's ran Domain/OS which was Multics inspired
>but later it went to BSD compatibility and looked like both Unix and
>Multics.
>
>>
>> Allison
>>
>>
>
>Actually, there are a lot of Apollo collectors out there and the video
>card may be getable. The Apollos used 3C505's for ethernet and some other
>Token ring interface.
>
>Bill
>
>+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
>| Bill/Carolyn Pechter | 17 Meredith Drive | Tinton Falls, New Jersey 07724 |
>| 908-389-3592 | Save computing history, give an old geek old hardware. |
>| pechter(a)shell.monmouth.com |
>+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
>
>More likely SCSI (single 50pin cable) or EDSI (two cables like MFM).
>MFM drives topped out at 160mb or so, EDSI went to at least 400mb maybe
>higher.
ESDI, and I know they can handle higher capacity disks (though I can't
speak to the actual limit) as I have several ESDI disks which are
770mb unformatted (about 668mb formatted). A couple of them are the
Hitachi DK515-78. I also have some Maxtor drives, but I don't remember
their designation.
Megan Gentry
Former RT-11 Developer
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry(a)zk3.dec.com |
| Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg(a)world.std.com |
| Digital Equipment Corporation | |
| 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ |
| Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler |
| (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg |
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
In Circuit Cellar this month there is an add from timeline inc. It has a 6"
VGA LCD 640 X 480 Sanyo LMDK55-22 listed for $25. That is the only info
given on the add. their phone number is (800) 872-8878 no web site :(
Francois
-------------------------------------------------------------
Visit the Sanctuary at: http://www.pclink.com/fauradon
-----Original Message-----
From: Rax <rax(a)warbaby.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Saturday, June 13, 1998 6:20 PM
Subject: Re: Mini-Monitors?
>>> <Does anyone know of a *cheap* source of a VGA-compatible display? What
I
>>> <looking for, especially, is low power usage, followed by compactness
and
>>> <portability. Thanks!
>>>
>>> I'm also interested in same and know someone that might like info.
>>> There is a truck load of applications for a cheap/compact/lowpower
>>> VGA display.
>>
>>At least small CGA and mono monitors have been cheap for a long time.
>>Places that advertise in Electronics Now tend to have them for ~$30ish.
>>They are usually open-frame.
>>
>
>Also try Nuts & Volts magazine. Lots of ads from purveyors of all sorts of
>goodies for the mad inventor that lurks inside each of us.
>
>R.
>
>--
>
>
>
>Warbaby
>The WebSite. The Domain. The Empire.
>http://www.warbaby.com
>
>The MonkeyPool
>WebSite Content Development
>http://www.monkeypool.com
>
> Dreadlocks on white boys give me the willies.
>
>
>
>
>
Hi, gang.
I'm just curious what old electronic magazines are worth. I haven't been able to
find them in a price guide -- I have all the PE Altair issues (including the 680)
and would like to know if they are worth anything I need to worry about insuring.
Don't get excited -- I'm not going to part with them. It's just that I've heard that
they're worth some money and I'd like to know.
Thanks
Paul Braun
NerdWare -- The History of the PC and the Nerds who brought it to you.
nerdware(a)laidbak.com
www.laidbak.com/nerdware
Found a stack of AT&T computers. Some are labelled "PC 6300" (The unix PC,
iirc?) but others are marked "6300 WGS", a designation I've not heard of
before. In any case, is anyone interested in them? They're available at a
good price. Condition unknown, possible monitors/keyboards, but dunno.
Lemme know if I should pick 'em up.
--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-
Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/
<Does anyone know of a *cheap* source of a VGA-compatible display? What I
<looking for, especially, is low power usage, followed by compactness and
<portability. Thanks!
I'm also interested in same and know someone that might like info.
There is a truck load of applications for a cheap/compact/lowpower
VGA display.
Allison
+AD4-Did MP/M run on Z-80s? BTW, is there a reasonable chance the CP/M on
+AD4-one micro w/5.25+ACI- disks be compatible with another with 5.25+ACI- disks,
+AD4-i.e. my apple with a C-128? Also, if a computer can run CP/M 3 can it
+AD4-run eariler versions? (Note i'm not talking about apps here).
Yes, MP/M ran on the Z80 first, then on the 8086. A multi-user Z80
was no speed demon but it was cheap compared to a PDP-11. BTW, the
very first initial release of MP/M was actually coded for 8080, the
task dispatcher did not save the extra Z80 registers. I discovered it
the hard way, reported it to DRI, they fixed it right away.
Apparently whatever machine they used to test MP/M was 8080 or 8085
based.
Compatibility on floppies was about nil, very very few disks could be
moved from one machine to another. If anything, 5.25+ACI- compatibility
was worse than 8+ACI- floppies.
Any Z80 machine that could run V3 had all the hardware needed to run
V2. CP/M V1 was designed only for 8+ACI- SSSD floppies, the BIOS didn't
have the drive tables in it to support anything else.
Jack Peacock
I Remember a Computer Shopper (you know, back when there ware actually a few
decent articles in it, as well as a ton of advertising) referred to those Mac
Clones as 'HackIntoshes' Sounds appropriate to me...
> From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com>
> Subject: Re: Early Mac Clones
>
> >bit hard getting a mac into a pc case though, remember that macs have all
> >the connectors on board,
> >
> >desie
>
> Can't be any worse than the people that put Atari's or Amiga's in a PC
> case. I've seen a Atari TT030 in a PC Tower, and it's quite popular among
> Amiga people to tower their A1200's. All it takes is some creative cabling.
>
> Zane
I have a set of texts on making a "Tower 64" (bundling a Commodore 64, Ram
Expansion, drives, etc. in a tower PC case) which I have been seriously
considering, actually I think I'd prefer a Tower 128 myself.
Larry
--
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
Larry Anderson - Sysop of Silicon Realms BBS (300-2400bd) (209) 754-1363
Visit my Commodore 8-Bit web page at:
http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/commodore.html
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
This is somewhat tangential, but I suspect whoever is
reading about HP Apollo's may be able to contribute.
I came across a rack mount system in the local surplus
store. The faceplate reads "HP 2100c Programmable
Microcomputer System".
Any ideas what this is? Worth picking up?
Jon
>>
>> <I got a apollo 4500.
>> <It has a 68030 inside, and a 700-someodd meg MFM (?) harddisk.
>>
>> More likely SCSI (single 50pin cable) or EDSI (two cables like MFM).
>> MFM drives topped out at 160mb or so, EDSI went to at least 400mb maybe
>> higher.
>
>Definitely ESDI or SCSI. Although they could have had SMD or ESMD
>as well.
>
>>
>> <I have no idea what it runs. This one has a SummaSketch pad with it.
>> <It was used for CAD stuff.
>>
>> Some kind of unix.
>
>Possibly, though the Apollo's ran Domain/OS which was Multics inspired
>but later it went to BSD compatibility and looked like both Unix and
>Multics.
>
>>
>> Allison
>>
>>
>
>Actually, there are a lot of Apollo collectors out there and the video
>card may be getable. The Apollos used 3C505's for ethernet and some other
>Token ring interface.
>
>Bill
>
>+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
>| Bill/Carolyn Pechter | 17 Meredith Drive | Tinton Falls, New Jersey 07724 |
>| 908-389-3592 | Save computing history, give an old geek old hardware. |
>| pechter(a)shell.monmouth.com |
>+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
>
Did MP/M run on Z-80s? BTW, is there a reasonable chance the CP/M on
one micro w/5.25" disks be compatible with another with 5.25" disks,
i.e. my apple with a C-128? Also, if a computer can run CP/M 3+ can it
run eariler versions? (Note i'm not talking about apps here).
>OK to fair. ;) It was file level password protection and required the
>whole colume to be enabled for it. Security level was low though. If
the
>user could assemble and run a program they could write code to access
the
>disk directory and toggle the right bits and they had control. It was
>aimed at captive applications where the user had limited resources and
>could not get directly at the file system. Many of the things in CPM3
>are there to provice more direct compatability with MP/M.
>
>As to weird, no most of the additions they did were similar to the ZCPR
>groups and other were doing in parallel and had sound basis.
>
>Allison
>
>
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
<I got a apollo 4500.
<It has a 68030 inside, and a 700-someodd meg MFM (?) harddisk.
More likely SCSI (single 50pin cable) or EDSI (two cables like MFM).
MFM drives topped out at 160mb or so, EDSI went to at least 400mb maybe
higher.
<I have no idea what it runs. This one has a SummaSketch pad with it.
<It was used for CAD stuff.
Some kind of unix.
<The problem with it is, the video card appears to have died.
<WHen I power the machine on (It has a VERY LARGE [21"] RGB monitor. Any
<chance of me connecting it to a PC? It has 3 plugs, R G B, and expects
<sync on green) and the monitor, I get garbage. The garbage is the same a
it can be but I forget the modes required also you need a cable for it.
Connecting to a PC is more trouble than its worth generally.
Allison
Max, Please clip off the unwanted parts of the message.
<><The CP/M 3+ manual says the syntax is drive:12345678.123;password.
<><Maybe it's a weird DR thing. They tended to add weird stuff...
<
<So, how DID it work?
OK to fair. ;) It was file level password protection and required the
whole colume to be enabled for it. Security level was low though. If the
user could assemble and run a program they could write code to access the
disk directory and toggle the right bits and they had control. It was
aimed at captive applications where the user had limited resources and
could not get directly at the file system. Many of the things in CPM3
are there to provice more direct compatability with MP/M.
As to weird, no most of the additions they did were similar to the ZCPR
groups and other were doing in parallel and had sound basis.
Allison
So, how DID it work?
>
>Password protection? There wasn't any as part of CP/M.
><The CP/M 3+ manual says the syntax is drive:12345678.123;password.
><Maybe it's a weird DR thing. They tended to add weird stuff...
>
>You didn't say CPM3! If you say CPM it is assumed the more common v2.x
>version. V2.x did not have passwords, V3.0 did. Obviously if this
apple
>cpm card has V3 disks it it was a very late one or someone went to some
>trouble to port v3 to it. FYI: v3 was not widely popular.
>
>Allison
>
>
>
>
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
<I have acquired the manuals, S100 controller, and cartridge tape
<drive, but not the software, for an Alloy Engineering cartridge tape
Alloy is still in business I believe.
<This system came from a multi-user Concurrent CP/M 80286 system in the
<early 80's. The system disk was pulled from the S-100 box when it was
MID80s... the 286 on s100 was about 84-86ish. the earliest data I have
>from intel is late 83 for the 286.
good luck finding the software as it was never PD and alloy controllers
where never that common that I've seen.
Allison
<Hugh Henderson <hendronicus(a)hotmail.com>
<saginaw, MI USA - Friday, June 12, 1998 at 18:07:56
<
<I rescued a Digital WT/78 word terminal with a Digital RX02 computer
<attached.
Ok, the WT78 is one of DECs early compact word processing systems. The
CPU is the intersil 6100 (PDP-8 reduced to a chip). The RX02 is nto
acomputer but a disk box and controller for 256k/512k 8" floppies.
(others in that family are the DECmate, DECmateII and DECmateIII)
< It does try to boot, but I don't have the system disk. I'd sure love
<to see the beast run.
The images for the disks(both WPS and OS/78) are on the net and you would
need a system that can create 8" disks. Alternately someone that has
a system with RX02 disks (they were used on PDP-8, PDP-11 systems).
< What does it run? What kind of processors does it use? It has network
<and modem connections.
The primary processor that runs the OS is a varient of the PDP-8 family
reduced to a single chip. The disk system has it's own processor but
that is not user programmable.
It _does_not_ have network connections. The idea of a network at that
time was unrealistic for such a low end machine. The modem connection
however is eaxactly that and could be used to connect the machine to a
host for file transfers.
<How do you use those, and what were they originally for?
It was originally used for word processing running WPS78, it also runs
OS/78 an older PDP-8 operating system that looks a tiny bit like DOS.
Allison
<That's why my LCD panel sits in the box. :-(
<
<> There are (were?) a few vendors that made very nice single chip solutio
<> for converting base VGA into something an LCD could use.
<>
<> Hitachi?
<
<Ooh! Does anyone have a relevant Hitachi data book?
My assessment is that for the display I have to convert serial video (VGA)
to two 4 bit parallel streams for a partitioned display is unrealistic.
The next simpler option if to generate video directly in the form required
for the display and that is also somewhat ponderous. I didn't see
anyhting suitable on the Hitachi site.
Allisom
Password protection? There wasn't any as part of CP/M.
<The CP/M 3+ manual says the syntax is drive:12345678.123;password.
<Maybe it's a weird DR thing. They tended to add weird stuff...
You didn't say CPM3! If you say CPM it is assumed the more common v2.x
version. V2.x did not have passwords, V3.0 did. Obviously if this apple
cpm card has V3 disks it it was a very late one or someone went to some
trouble to port v3 to it. FYI: v3 was not widely popular.
Allison
> Auction services have their place, but I think that we on the list
>should be given the "right of first refusal". If one of the list members has
>something to sell, give the others a first crack, with some time limit (like
>a week), before listing it on eBay or Haggle.
Perhaps list subscribers who wish to list their items on an auction
service could offer a discount to other subscribers (e.g. "Mention you
saw this add on the Classic Computers mailing list and get 10% off.").
This way the seller gets the higher prices of the auction services while
at the same time offering an advantage to list subscribers.
Tom Owad
I have acquired the manuals, S100 controller, and cartridge tape
drive, but not the software, for an Alloy Engineering cartridge tape
drive. I have two manuals, the Interface Guide For the IDXS-100, and
TIP (Tape Interchange Package) Operator's Guide, both dated 1981. The
tape drive is an early 3M cartridge tape, capacity of about 14MB
formatted. I also have a big box of backup tape cartridges.
This system came from a multi-user Concurrent CP/M 80286 system in the
early 80's. The system disk was pulled from the S-100 box when it was
retired, and the original floppies are long gone. I figure if I can
find either a Z80 or 8086 version of the TIP program I can get the
system directory off the backup tapes.
Does anyone know more about these tape drives? A binary of the TIP
program?
Jack Peacock
>There are (were?) a few vendors that made very nice single chip
solutions
>for converting base VGA into something an LCD could use.
>
>Hitachi?
>
Cirrus Logic made LCD controllers that would drive an LCD and also an
external monitor. I have an older Compal TS-38 laptop with the chip,
driving a dual scan color LCD, but with a switch to go to an external
monitor.
I've seen Him/Them Beign flamed about it on some newsgroup (pretty funny
too), other than that Have no idea.
Francois
-------------------------------------------------------------
Visit the Sanctuary at: http://www.pclink.com/fauradon
-----Original Message-----
From: Doug Yowza <yowza(a)yowza.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Thursday, June 11, 1998 11:56 PM
Subject: Re: IIRC
>On Thu, 11 Jun 1998, Francois wrote:
>
>> Well, "If I Recall Corectly" that's what it means.
>
>BTW, whatever happened to lisard/communa? The consistency with which
>"they" used pronouns was impressive: IIRC -> iwrc.
>
>-- Doug
>
