At 01:28 PM 6/15/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Sure, just as easily as you can move stuff between the 6502 based Nintendo
>and an AIM-65 (i.e., no way dOOd -- even if the CPU is the same, nothing
>else is). However, I seem to recall that Microsoft recently signed-up a
>game machine manufacturer for CE, and it was either Nintendo or Sega.
Sega. For the new 128-bit console system: Dreamcast. Coming to America next
year. Out in Japan by Fall this year.
<offtopic alert! offtopic alert!>
Err, man, those Atari Pong games sure were a gas back in the 70's, man!
Groooovy!
*Whew!* Close one.
________________________________________
john higginbotham limbo.netpath.net -
webmaster, http://www.pntprinting.com -
"Teamwork is essential; it gives the -
enemy other people to shoot at." -
I got a apollo 4500.
It has a 68030 inside, and a 700-someodd meg MFM (?) harddisk.
I have no idea what it runs. This one has a SummaSketch pad with it.
It was used for CAD stuff.
What's it run?
The problem with it is, the video card appears to have died.
WHen I power the machine on (It has a VERY LARGE [21"] RGB monitor. Any
chance of me connecting it to a PC? It has 3 plugs, R G B, and expects
sync on green) and the monitor, I get garbage. The garbage is the same almost
every time. There is 3 patterns. The first one is just garbage, the second one
is the same garbage only dimmer, and the third is a light blue blank screen.
All of them are light blue colored.
The summasketch puck is also wrecked, someone's jerked the MMJ plug off the end.
But I can get another one of those.
There is a switch in the back (Next to the reset (?) button) than, when
pressed, activates a 4-LED indication inside the case.
When I start the machine, it flickers around, and stops at 1 on, 2 3 and 4
blinking. Is this a failure code? What's this switch for?
Am I correct in my assumption? (Dead video)
I've already pushed all the socketed chips in as far as they'll go.
That didn't help.
I also removed the video card (It has no socketed chips) and reseated it.
This also has a network adapter, labled DOMAIN RING.
What wire does that expect?
I'm guessing it's not Ethernet...
Oh, the label on the front says APOLLO DOMAIN 4500.
FOrgot that :)
-------
At 01:30 PM 6/12/98 -0800, you wrote:
>I know of sources that satisfy everything except the *cheap*.
>Small VGA color monitors - 5", 7", etc. - are readily
>available from all the folks who sell embedded systems and
>components. Expect to pay $600 and up, though.
>
>For a similar price you can also get VGA-compatible color LCD
>displays in the same size range.
Ooh, that would be *perfect*, except for the $. 8^( Hmmm.. How good is
the security at these places? 8^) But seriously, a 5-7" monitor for $600?
I guess there's not as big a market for them, but the folks that need 'em
*really* need 'em.
>a Pentium motherboard that's only 2.5" square!
Now that's pretty damn cool!
I picked up a SIIG computer. It's a 386SX (and probably too new for here)
and is about 4" wide by 3" tall, by about 11" long. Fully self contained,
just add monitor and keyboard. Has 16-bit and 8-bit ISA Slots (1 each),
and both floppy and hard drive. Pretty darn cool; it's my new voicemail
system. 8^)
--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-
Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/
OK. I just purchased a Windows CE handheld. I realized that:
1) It represents MS's rebirth. That, along with cross-platform apps, means
that MS isn't going to be doing to much with Windows 9x/NT after a couple
years...
2) It's lighting fast, and covers all kinds of processors.
Now, I've got 2 questions:
1) With a Velo, is there any way to save files after it's turned off without
purchasing a hard card?
2) With a MIPS-based handheld, could I get stuff moving between this and my
N64?
Ciao,
Tim D. Hotze
>Thanks for the tip, Tim. I'll dump all of my intel stock now. :-)
Seriously, that doesn't mean going away from Intel. x86 is supported.
Besides, Linux'll take over x86's hardware.... ;-)
>> 2) It's lighting fast, and covers all kinds of processors.
>
>The H/PC was a bit of a flop. For some reason, not many people wanted to
>buy a machine that looked like Windows95, but ran on slower hardware with
>no application compatibility.
Well, believe it or not, it took Microsoft for "open-season" to start on
handhelds.
>However, I like the new Pilot rip-off, the Palm-sized PC, better. And if
>you've never seen their Auto PC for cars, brace yourself for some drooling
>(guaranteed to flop at the current $2K price though). They're also making
>inroads into embedded systems with CE.
Great. Now, stoplights and car batteries will freeze on me.
>> 1) With a Velo, is there any way to save files after it's turned off
without
>> purchasing a hard card?
>
>You've got internal battery-backed RAM for that.
OK.
>> 2) With a MIPS-based handheld, could I get stuff moving between this and
my
>> N64?
>
>Sure, just as easily as you can move stuff between the 6502 based Nintendo
>and an AIM-65 (i.e., no way dOOd -- even if the CPU is the same, nothing
>else is). However, I seem to recall that Microsoft recently signed-up a
>game machine manufacturer for CE, and it was either Nintendo or Sega.
That's what I thought. But I heard a friend talk about it...
As for the Sega, Windows CE's OK for what I want it for: Simple eMail.
No graphics, no attachments. I don't want Windows CE freezing up my game
machine. Especially not when UNIX based competitiors are availabe. I said
that I liked Windows CE. I didn't say that it was the best at anything.
Just shows promise.
Ciao,
Tim D. Hotze
>Green? For the first half-dozen years I never saw any Microsoft
>documents in color. I have several Microsoft manuals and binders
>from when their office was in Arizona and all of those are
>black on white. Later stuff from when they moved to a suite in
>Bellevue was still in black and white. I didn't see any green until
>1980-1982 when Microsoft was selling Digital Research's CP/M with
>their Softcard (Z-80 drop-in for the Apple II).
OK. How many softcards were made?
>BASIC implementation for dozens of personal computers in the late 70's
>and very early 80's, most importantly.
I know that. Was their first BASIC the 4K tape one for the Altair?
>> Anything
>> for say... the Apple II?
>
>Absolutely. Applesoft BASIC (in every II+ and later, and installed as
>an option in most II's) was written by Microsoft. Microsoft also sold
>several well-known Apple II games (ADVENTURE is the most well-known).
They wrote that? DUDE!!!! (I recently aquired a Applesoft BASIC manual (C)
1979, in near mint condition.)
>You know, I could go on for pages and pages with software that Microsoft
>sold in the late 70's and early 80's for non PC-platforms. You'd probably
>be much better educated about computing in that era if you simply went
>and found the _BYTE_ magazines from that time frame and read the ads.
OK. See, I checked out MS's museum, and I'd have to say that from a
corporate perspective, it had a pretty fair view of things. They had the
Apple II, Macintosh, Altair, etc. there.
>Tim. (shoppa(a)triumf.ca)
Tim D. Hotze
>>>I think it depends on the machine. My DN3500 is about PC/AT sized. My
>> >425 is a less tall, but takes up more desk area.
didn't these things need some sort of domain controller or something to
boot? I remember playing around with one at the place where I used to
work repairing old machines and it got a sensible display up but then
refused to boot. Mind you, I seem to remember that it took two keyboards
- a standard PC one and an HP-specific one...
the whole lot went to the tip sadly, minus the SCSI disks which were
formatted for a different system (mind you, I rescued a few good
machines from that place over time - the Tower32/700, Tektronix XD88,
Philips P3800, numerous Link 480Z's and BBC model B's to name but a
few...)
>> disk and MB in it, the FPU went to my upgraded Mac SE), and I didn't even
>> get ONE part out, just a face full of PCB fumes(whatever those boards are
blowtorches work wonders surprisingly. It's very rare to toast a chip
providing you're careful with heat distribution (not recommended for
repair jobs on boards that you want to keep though ;*)
cheers
Jules
I guess you're right. But still... er... um...
Tim D. Hotze
-----Original Message-----
From: Tim Shoppa <shoppa(a)alph02.triumf.ca>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Monday, June 15, 1998 10:46 PM
Subject: Re: Old Microsoft stuff...
>> Yep. I know that. But MS dominance didn't exactly happen overnight.
They
>> didn't have much of a hold in anything until the IBM PC took off...
>
>I'd disagree with you here. Microsoft had a much broader scope before
>the IBM PC, selling hundreds of pieces of software for dozens of
>different platforms. And certainly a plurality, if not a majority, of
8-bit
>home micros booted straight into Microsoft BASIC. Just about every
>consumer-oriented-everything-in-a-box CP/M system came bundled with
>MBASIC!
>
>Tim.
>> Olympic Decathalon (responsible for many a broken left/right arrow key
>> required for the running competitions).
is that the same game as Daley Thompson's Decathalon on the old
Spectrum? Seem to remember that burning out a few keys - I didn't
realise it was a Microsoft product though!!
Jules
>
> Hi. Now, I don't want to start a flamewar, but still, Microsoft HAS played
> an important part in personal computing, for better or for worse. From 1986
> or so onwards, they were a industry dominator.
> Now, from what I understand, the origional MS logo was GREEN? Somebody
> have a picture?
Yes it was green. If I can find an example, I'll scan it for you.
> Other than OS's and current Office Applications (and, of course,
> Internet Explorer, which is a decent browser, and DOES have pleanty of
> innovation, if you're prepared to admit it.), what did MS make? Anything
> for say... the Apple II? PDP's? UN*X boxes (once again, omitting current
> ports of IE 4.0)?
Well, you're getting a copy of MULTIPLAN for the Apple ][. Seems
like there was a word processor for the A][ as well.
Don't forget Excel for the MAC. Excel was on the Macintosh long
before it became a standard on that 'other' windowing OS. In fact,
Excel is the only Microsoft product that actually *PREDATES* the
operating system it runs on!
No, MS Word dosen't count-- WinWord was a totally new product,
bearing *no* resemblence to the original 'Word' for Mess-DOs. Excel
was a straight port (well, it *looks* that way, anyway).
If I look through some old issues of byte, I'm sure I'll find others
. . .
Jeff
>> Which "Alpha"? Alpha Micro?
Hmm, is that "Alpha micro" as in "Alphatronic PC"? I have a few of those
things lying around someplace in various states - my old university
wrote their own terminal software for them, burned it out to eeprom, and
we used to use them as terminals to access the Unix systems.
IIRC I did see reference to an expansion box that allowed the use of
hard drives with CP/M on - I did a lot of digging at the time and never
turned up anything for them - I just had the custom Uni terminal ROMs
and a set of BASIC ROMs that originally came with the machines.
They were made by Triumph-Adler, from what I remember. Any information
on these boxes would be most helpful!! (I have the original manuals, but
they don't exactly go into a lot of detail)
cheers
Jules
>
Yep. I'll count that. BTW, welcome back! One time, I was eMailing you for
help on something... didn't get a response... then you stopped posting to
ClassicCmp...
Ciao,
Tim D. Hotze
-----Original Message-----
From: John Higginbotham <higginbo(a)netpath.net>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Monday, June 15, 1998 8:59 PM
Subject: Re: Old Microsoft stuff...
>At 05:37 PM 6/15/98 +0300, you wrote:
>
>> Other than OS's and current Office Applications (and, of course,
>>Internet Explorer, which is a decent browser, and DOES have pleanty of
>>innovation, if you're prepared to admit it.), what did MS make? Anything
>>for say... the Apple II? PDP's? UN*X boxes (once again, omitting current
>>ports of IE 4.0)?
>
>Does Microsoft BASIC on the TRS-80 Model 100 count?
>
>
>________________________________________
>john higginbotham limbo.netpath.net -
>webmaster, http://www.pntprinting.com -
>"Teamwork is essential; it gives the -
>enemy other people to shoot at." -
>
>
>
>
<Hi. Just wanted to know if anyone out here knows where I can get an old
<alpha... (real old).
< Ciao,
Ah, you gotta be kiddin.... The alpha is maybe max 8 years old!
Allison
>>> hmm. My university had a 7 which as far as I know was never used - it
>>> just sat there as a conversational point in one of the physics labs. I
>>> probably could have taken it, but just don't have the room for it (nor
>>> the knowledge to keep it running, and I don't have the time these days
>>> to learn about any new machines sadly!)
>>
>> When was this -7 just sitting there, out of curiosity?
well I graduated a couple of years ago, so I last saw it probably about
three years ago now (never had much call to go into the physics
buildings).
as I said, I don't know PDP machines so couldn't tell you how much of a
system there was there or what state it was in - it had a paper sign
hanging on the front saying "PDP7" and used to get pointed out during
tours (heh heh, so I guess there could have been anything in there!! :)
wish I'd taken a better look at it (mind you, as I said I couldn't
really justify keeping such a beast, and I used to get enough obsolete
equipment that the computing department used to throw out anyway!)
cheers
J.
>
<I was just wondering on the rarity of DEC's PDPx machines - I gather
<that '11s are still pretty common (relatively!), but what about earlier
<machines in the line?
PDP = Programmed Data Processor. It was a ploy to tame down the idea of
large, expensive and complex computers.
The PDP-8E/F/M/A series was quite popular swith sales in the many tens
of thousands. There are many of these in service as machine tool
controllers and other uses. PDP-11 series was even more prolific.
Rare machines are the PDP-1 (few left), PDP-5 the forunner to the 8, and
10s. The total sales for the PDP-1/4/5/6/7/9/10/12/15 combined was under
5000 units. Generally the 18 and 36bit machines are tough to find and if
found represent a bit of work to run.
Allison
>I was just wondering on the rarity of DEC's PDPx machines - I gather
>that '11s are still pretty common (relatively!), but what about earlier
>machines in the line?
There seem to be a fair number of -8's in private hands, at least there
are a number of people who post on alt.sys.pdp8 who have them. Probably
more Decmates then older -8s. As for -11s, I have quite a few, mostly
qbus... There are even some people who have -10s and -20s at home. I've
not seen any info on others like -4, -7, -9, -15, etc (other than the
emulators that Bob Supnik of DEC wrote).
>Also - what did PDP stand for? (I don't expect that "Portable" came into
>it ;*) Sorry for the dumb question - I grew up with classic 8-bit micros
>and 32-bit Unix machines - shame I missed out on some of the big old
>boxes, they sound like fun (if a bit impractical from a storage point of
>view!! :)
PDP = Programmed Data Processor.
Megan Gentry
Former RT-11 Developer
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry(a)zk3.dec.com |
| Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg(a)world.std.com |
| Digital Equipment Corporation | |
| 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ |
| Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler |
| (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg |
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
Just want to check... Composite Video (as in a lot of 8-bit computers) is
*not* the same thing as the Video ports on, say, a VCR or camcorder, right?
And Composite is also not the same as what the Atari 2600 (et al) use to
hook up to a telly? Thanks...
--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-
Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/
-----Original Message-----
From: Doug Yowza <yowza(a)yowza.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Monday, June 15, 1998 7:39
Subject: Re: MS Windows 1.03 for sale
>On Mon, 15 Jun 1998, Sam Ismail wrote:
>
>> I bid $4billion! Oh wait, its only v1.03. I was looking for 1.02.
Never
>> mind.
>
>I have 1.02. Will that be cash or credit card?
>
>-- Doug
>
email: desieh(a)southcom.com.au
desieh(a)bigfoot.com
museum_curator(a)hotmail.com
Apple Lisa Web Page:
http://www.southcom.com.au/~desieh/index.htm
ive got 1.02 but its in french, or is that france??
want it:>
maybe not................
I found their web site:
http://www.digisys.net/timeline/lcd.html
Looks like they have few for good prices
Francois
-------------------------------------------------------------
Visit the Sanctuary at: http://www.pclink.com/fauradon
-----Original Message-----
From: Allison J Parent <allisonp(a)world.std.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Sunday, June 14, 1998 2:20 PM
Subject: Re: Mini-Monitors?
><In Circuit Cellar this month there is an add from timeline inc. It has a
><VGA LCD 640 X 480 Sanyo LMDK55-22 listed for $25. That is the only info
><given on the add. their phone number is (800) 872-8878 no web site :(
><Francois
>
>I'll call tehm but I suspect it will be like the DELL(sharp) LCD I have
>and while VGA sized it is not a vga interface.
>
>Allison
>
Frank McConnell <fmc(a)reanimators.org> wrote:
> > I'm really hoping to be there, but I still have to figure out how to get
> > from Walnut Creek at 5pm to Palto Alo at 5:30...
>
> I see a need for speed. Hmm, usually they start a few minutes late,
> but
Umm, duh. I plead damaged swap area.
Anyway, usually they start a few minutes late, but at the TCMHC site
I think that's because it takes that long for folks to quit gawking at
the old iron and sit down.
-Frank McConnell
Uncle Roger <sinasohn(a)ricochet.net> wrote:
> >> >> Final Demo of the Xerox Star Workstation
> >> >> 5:30 to 7:00pm
>
> I'm really hoping to be there, but I still have to figure out how to get
> from Walnut Creek at 5pm to Palto Alo at 5:30...
I see a need for speed. Hmm, usually they start a few minutes late,
but
> Ooh, I *love* waving my appendages, especially my phelanges!
That's the spirit! Tongues, too!
> Only, Wednesdays, esp. the second wed are not good... Make it the second
> Thursday and you've got a deal. 8^)
Well, second Wednesday was Paul's suggestion (and "suggestion" may be
too strong a word), and he and I are both flexible. I figure whoever
shows up at PARC will probably yak about this some Wednesday night and
hopefully we will arrive at something close enough to consensus to
post a real time and place.
-Frank McConnell
<In Circuit Cellar this month there is an add from timeline inc. It has a
<VGA LCD 640 X 480 Sanyo LMDK55-22 listed for $25. That is the only info
<given on the add. their phone number is (800) 872-8878 no web site :(
<Francois
I'll call tehm but I suspect it will be like the DELL(sharp) LCD I have
and while VGA sized it is not a vga interface.
Allison
<>I'm also interested in same and know someone that might like info.
<>There is a truck load of applications for a cheap/compact/lowpower
<>VGA display.
<>
<>Allison
<
<Geez, Allison, If I was a EE god like yourself, I'd grab me a coupla
<busted|older laptops and build an interface for the LCD screens. 8^)
Humm, I have a dell laptop display and it will take a potload of ttl and
ram to make it into a system... the results will be more power hungry than
I want. FYI this is NOT for a PC so PC hacks are not the most useful.
Allison
