test-drb

test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

101090 discussions

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

Hi Doug, I also bid on it but I decided to let you have it since I have several of them already. At 01:33 PM 6/17/98 -0500, you wrote: >I recently acquired a 9825B, and I've got some questions: > >Can I get some docs from somebody?! I can't figure out how to program the >thing. It uses HPL. HP's version of APL and BASIC crossed. Assign variables like this "A <- 2" "B <- 2*A" etc. > >The keyboard on mine appears to be different than that of another 9825B on >the net. How many different 9825B variations were there? There's at least three vesions, the A, the B and a T. The latter ones had most of the optional ROMs built in. BTW I just bought another one, it has a big warning label on it not to use any plug in ROMs other than the Matrix and String (I think). It says that the others are already built in and if you add a plug-in one that you may damage the calculator. I have lots of docs for these and 6 other 9825s but this is the first time that I've seen that warning. There are also two very different keybaords used on them. The 9825 at the bottom of your picture has the full travel keyboard. They're more desireable. A pic of mine >juxtaposed with somebody else's is at: > http://www.yowza.com/classiccmp/hp/ > >My "exectute" key is stuck. I haven't taken the machine appart yet, but >the keyboard mechanism isn't likely to match anything I have laying around >the house. Does anybody have any experience repairing this machine's >keyboard? Yeap! If it's only stuck you can usually pull them up and fix them. > >BTW, it seems like a great machine! I like the LED display. Did anybody >ever make a similar model, but with, say, an 80x24 character LED display? Yes, HP did except they used a CRT. The HP 9826 replaced the 9825. The 9826 was shaped like an oversized Apple computer and had an integrated keyboard, 5" monitor and 5 1/4" disk drive. You can see one on my webpage at "http://www.intellistar.net/~rigdonj/hp9000.htm". The 9826 used a 68000 CPU and could run HPL, BASIC or Pascal. All of the languages were USUALLY stored on disks and loaded from there but you could get the languages on plug-in ROM cards. You could have any or all languages on the same drive and/or in ROM on the same computer and you could select the one that you wanted the computer to load. I have a drive with all three languages on it and BASIC in ROM on one computer. The 9826 was also called a 9000 226 model and was part of the HP 9000 series 200 computer family that included the 9836 (aka 9000/236), 9836C, 9816 (aka 9000/216), 9000/220 and 9000/217. Even though the 9826 was designated as the replacement for the 9825 all the computers in that family are generaly compatible. The primary differences were the number of expansion slots, integrated vs. modular construction, overall size, number of built in drives and wheather they had monochrome or color displays. I have pictures on several of them on my website. Joe > >-- Doug > >

27 years, 10 months

MindSet

by jeff.kaneko＠ifrsys.com

I took a gander at this page; is the mindset related to the MAD computer? If so, then I have a Floppydrive/powersupply "upper half", if you want it. Jeff > On Wed, 17 Jun 1998, George Currie wrote: > > > Finally acquired a MindSet pc this weekend, way cool. So now I'm looking for > > anyone who has _anything_ for this unit (docs, specific software, carts, > > anything). Any useful links would be handy too. > > I have the stereo module and will trade it for the computer itself :-) > > http://www.neosoft.com/~dlw/comp/mindset.html > > -- Doug > > > >

27 years, 10 months

MindSet

by g＠kurico.com

Finally acquired a MindSet pc this weekend, way cool. So now I'm looking for anyone who has _anything_ for this unit (docs, specific software, carts, anything). Any useful links would be handy too. TIA George

27 years, 10 months

(OT, in a way...)

by homeline＠ezl.com

>I know I can type it as: "You know, the 00's really suck!" But how the >heck >are we supposed to pronounce it? > >Simple, as anyone who owns a .30-06 deer rifle can tell tell you, it >will be the "double ought" decade. Same as 100 years ago, the first >year will be "ought zero". BTW, .30-06 is a US rifle caliber, .308 >inches (7.62mm), designed in 1906, or "thirty ought six". 20 years from >now, we'll be talking about that old 500Mhz P II made back in "Ought >One". > Jack Peacock > > Hi guys & gals! Uhh, lets not confuse .308in bullet size with bullet caliber. The .308 Winchester cartridge was introduced in 1952 and adpoted in 1954 by the U.S. military. It was designed with a reduced overall weight(a little shorter). The idea was that a G.I. could carry more ammo into combat! The correct military designation for this cartridge was 7.62x51mm NATO. BTW, I believe it's "aught" with an A! Sorry, computers are not my only hobby. Cliff Boyer

27 years, 10 months

What is the first computer?

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

The point is that it's possible to just "figure it out" by looking. If you don't know what a cam is for, by process of elimination, it's possible to eventually understand. On the other hand, if you're staring at a board of custom chips, you'll never figure it out without a computer to read the code in them. > >And integrate and differentiate! That is _really_ had to do if you do not >know the functions of the cams! The trig functions can also be completely >non-obvious! > >William Donzelli >william(a)ans.net > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 10 months

What is the first computer?

by jfedorko＠virtualadmin.com

If I remember right, those were the 1st computer manuals I ever got my hands on as a kid, it was incredible stuff and caught my interest. Might even still have a few in Mom's attic. -----Original Message----- From: William Donzelli [SMTP:william@ans.net] Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 1998 3:51 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Re: Re[2]: What is the first computer? > Ah yes! The (then) ubiquitous Mark 1A (One Able) fire control computer. > Probably the only greater marvel were the fire controlmen who were able > to keep them in operation when repairs were necessary. Most of the computers were very hardy things and rarely broke down. When they did, these highly trained technicians would be called in to do the repairs, using all sorts of special tools (like really thin wrenches and other "not-at-Home-Depot" type things. William Donzelli william(a)ans.net

27 years, 10 months

What is the first computer?

by Philip.Belben＠powertech.co.uk

John Higginbotham (or someone) wrote: >>2) First human made computer (program given for input, so abbacus doesn't >>count, output given) > > I think there was an automated loom that was invented in the 17th century > that wove a pattern based on a template, but I don't recall if this was a > hole punch reader, a specially shaped gear, or other apparatus. It did > exist though. Although most definitely not a computer as we see them > today, it did take a program for input, process it, and output it in the > form of fabric. (I think this was right before CGA was made a standard...) :-) Someone has mentioned Jacquard, I think. He didn't invent punched cards, afaik, he got the idea from a Brit. I'll try and find out more, but I don't think either was a computer. The Jacquard loom doesn't run a program - it transfers data from cards to fabric. Full stop. I'd give the honours of 1st computer to the Zuse Z1 - a relay machine between the Wars, I think. But some mechanical calculators at that date were quite sophisticated. Comments, anyone?? >>5) First digital computer > > Didn't someone just post a link about the "first digital computer" turning > 50 years old? It was on the BBC website, I believe. They may have done, but the Manchester SSEM (Small Scale Experimental Machine) was the first computer to STORE ITS PROGRAM IN MAIN MEMORY, i.e. answer 4. Again, Konrad Zuse's pre-war relay computers were digital. Go and watch them running the Z4 in Munich... Philip.

27 years, 10 months

HP 9825B

by fmc＠reanimators.org

Doug Yowza <yowza(a)yowza.com> writes: > I recently acquired a 9825B, and I've got some questions: > > Can I get some docs from somebody?! I can't figure out how to program the > thing. Heh. I spent a couple of evenings trying to figure these things out (have two, an A and a B) with mixed results. HPL is definitely case sensitive. The little dinky manual that fits under the printer cover is not enough documentation to learn how to program it. That is all the docs I have though. > The keyboard on mine appears to be different than that of another 9825B on > the net. How many different 9825B variations were there? A pic of mine > juxtaposed with somebody else's is at: > http://www.yowza.com/classiccmp/hp/ In spite of what the hpmuseum.org web pages say, there are at least two 9825Bs out there with the calculator-style keyboard. Mine's like that too. I'm not sure whether it's a 9825A->B field upgrade or what. > BTW, it seems like a great machine! I like the LED display. Did anybody > ever make a similar model, but with, say, an 80x24 character LED display? I doubt it...those little dot-matrix LEDs were expensive compared to a CRT. -Frank McConnell

27 years, 10 months

Old Alpha's (OT)

by JRichardson＠softwright.co.uk

>> There have been several extension to the Alphatronic PC. >> floppy boxes and even a HD box. THe base for CP/M was >> the dual floppy box. I'm amazed - someone who's heard of these things! :) >>> They were made by Triumph-Adler, from what I remember. Any information >>> on these boxes would be most helpful!! (I have the original manuals, but >>> they don't exactly go into a lot of detail) >> >> Just Tell me whats missing - I think I maybe have some of the >> stuff. Including Flopyy and Hard Disk drives. Well all I have are the basic Alphatronic PC units (three of these I think, although I seem to remember that the keyboard status on two of them is far from perfect - these things used to be really abused when used as terminals), one original shipping carton, two manuals, and that's it. Oh, did these things come with monitors at all? Most of the ones we had at university had 12" mono screens hooked up to them, but I don't know if they were original or not (I have a couple of these - similar shape to DEC VT320 terminals). The manuals I have (IIRC) both mention that the systems can be expanded to run CP/M, but no mention of how or what was needed; there's no pin-outs of the expansion port, cartridge slots or anything. > >> Owning a Alphatronic PC and 2 Alphatronics hmm, so what's the difference between the two? Mine are all badged "Alphatronic PC", but I checked with the university staff before I left and they never had any floppy / hard drive systems with them... (This is where I really hate not having my collection around at home, it's been so long since I've powered one of these things up I can't even remember what CPU they had. I vaguely recall that they had a lot of fairly non-standard chips inside though; the CPU may have been a rebadged part of some description) cheers Jules >

27 years, 10 months

CP/M

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<> Apple is weird with their formats, nearly hardsector. C-128 has a few < <Actually, Apple was the _ultimate_ soft-sector, as it didn't pay any <attention to sector detect at all -- it had to read the whole track <then figure out where it started. It's a major reason why database <applications were never a big thing on Apples until hard disks showed <up -- updating things by record was only possible by writing whole <tracks. My comment was that apple format is not unlike hardsector in that it's not readable with most softsectored controllers. For all intents it was not unlike the usually vendor unique hard sector formats. Also DBASEII ran well on apples with floppies. The only penelty of reading an entire track was memory space. The payback was speed as there was an implied track level caching. Allison

27 years, 10 months

CP/M

by allisonp＠world.std.com

16 blank lines deleted. <Did MP/M run on Z-80s? BTW, is there a reasonable chance the CP/M on Yes and 8080s as well. The later version for 8088 were called CCPM (concurrent cpm). IN both cases they were multiuser/multiprocess OS that were really better than most. The z80 version was pretty decent on a 6 or 8mhz banked machine that had DMA for disk IO. The DMA was important as some hardware sued the cpu spinning in tight loops to do PIO to floppies and HDs, very inefficient used of cpu cycles. A common use for MPM was to use it for disk services to multiple slaves running cpm2(or 3) or CPnet. A crate constructed that way could easily have a z80 per user plus the MPM server and provide excellent response in a compact box. TELTEK, KONAN, macrotech and others offered cpus boards for both services. The difference in the boards were generaly amount of ram and presence of disk interfaces. <one micro w/5.25" disks be compatible with another with 5.25" disks, <i.e. my apple with a C-128? Also, if a computer can run CP/M 3+ can it Apple is weird with their formats, nearly hardsector. C-128 has a few compatable and incompatable formats. The rest were all over the map. Allison

27 years, 10 months

What is the first computer?

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Do you have any diagrams of the mechanical fire control computers? > >The line is always grey... > >> Didn't that have something to do with RADAR? Or was it cryptography? > >No, not radar. > >Radar, incidently, was just about the first use of digital electonics. >Although there was no computation at the digital level*, vacuum tube >flip-flops and counters were used in the timing circuits, as well in IFF >codes (The NRL even tried out a pre-1940 IFF box that used a real binary >word for the codes, with the hope that encryption would follow. It turned >out to just be a lab rat, however, and most of the war years saw the >horrible British MkIII system in use.). > >*The mechanical fire control computers, on the other hand, are truely >awesome devices. They would accept a bunch of real time input data (some >from the radars, some from the ships' gyros, some from the gun pointers >(sailors), and even internal data like how many times the gun was >fired (wear on the barrels)) - and output a bunch of data to set up the >shot. It worked well - incredibly well - 20 mile hits on the first shot >were not uncommon. It took YEARS before an electronic computer could rival >them. > >Tons of metal, but built like a Swiss watch. > >William Donzelli >william(a)ans.net > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 10 months

Location, Location, Location!

by franke＠sbs.de

> It would be nifty to have a web page with a list of Computer > Rescue Squad volunteers paired with their geographical coordinates, > with even perhaps a link to any one of the map-servers out there. Count me in :) 48 8' N 11 33' E Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

27 years, 10 months

uV SCSI/ DMA-Incomplete messages

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Anyway, concerning the uVAX SCSI/DMA code, seeing as <1, the SCSI code works most of the time, and <2, retrying when it fails clears the problem (most of the time), <why not patch the DMA code to retry an operation instead of failing <and returning SIGSEGV? Of course, this will get you when something actua <fails, but could it be tried? Err, how about fixing the scsi code so it works correctly and only flagging fatal errors or warnings where warrented. This would remove a lot of "soft" errors and likely clean up other problems as well. Allison

27 years, 10 months

Location, Location, Location!

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 98-06-17 13:28:14 EDT, you write: << It would be nifty to have a web page with a list of Computer Rescue Squad volunteers paired with their geographical coordinates, with even perhaps a link to any one of the map-servers out there. >> wasnt there something similar posted last year? the name isaac comes to mind. anyone remember? david

27 years, 10 months

Inventory compaction

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

My mom got fed up by the amount of junk I have in my room, so I will start to get rid of it (something I'd been planning to do). I have an external keyboard that plugs into the keyboard socket on the Apple ][ motherboard. It works fine, weighs three pounds. It has macro modules for basic, CP/M, wordstar, visicalc that plug into a little socket and modify a row of keys at the top (templates included) A little yellow, though. Anyone want? The other item is the 10-pound DG-One laptop with a smashed screen, no AC adaptor, dead battery pack, and BUTTONS on the floppy drives! I am zip code 02135. If anyone wants either just tell me. I also have a TI 99/4a w/o cartridges, seems to work fine. I think I'll just trash that... ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 10 months

CP/M

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

yes, i did the same with apple ][ floppies. i never used the special tool to punch the index hole as a sharp x-acto knife worked well. i do have one box of flippies at home and i never had a problem with using the "wrong" side. In a message dated 98-06-17 12:33:56 EDT, philip belben put forth: << Likewise the Commodore 8-bitters. In the early 1980s, I was one of the first in my school (I was 14 or so at the time) to own a floppy disk (yes, a disk, not a drive). I had heard of "flippy disks" with two index holes, which you could turn over, thus using both surfaces in a single sided drive. But I didn't realise you needed to give it a second index hole. So I just cut a second write-permit notch and turned it over. It worked! Commodore 4040 didn't use the index hole! Philip. >>

27 years, 10 months

What is the first computer?

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Leonardo DaVinci is quoted as saying, "Computers are useless. They can only give answers". This was obviously way before 1850. >> after all the one who coined the phrase "computer." > >Really? I've certainly seen "computer" in use in written communications >from the 1850's. Of course, it wasn't until the late 1940's that "computer" >meant a machine and not a person, in common usage! > >Tim. (shoppa(a)triumf.ca) > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 10 months

Old Alpha's (OT)

by franke＠sbs.de

>>> There have been several extension to the Alphatronic PC. >>> floppy boxes and even a HD box. THe base for CP/M was >>> the dual floppy box. > I'm amazed - someone who's heard of these things! :) >>>> They were made by Triumph-Adler, from what I remember. Any information >>>> on these boxes would be most helpful!! (I have the original manuals, but >>>> they don't exactly go into a lot of detail) >>> Just Tell me whats missing - I think I maybe have some of the >>> stuff. Including Flopyy and Hard Disk drives. > Well all I have are the basic Alphatronic PC units (three of these I > think, although I seem to remember that the keyboard status on two of > them is far from perfect - these things used to be really abused when > used as terminals), one original shipping carton, two manuals, and > that's it. > > Oh, did these things come with monitors at all? Most of the ones we had > at university had 12" mono screens hooked up to them, but I don't know > if they were original or not (I have a couple of these - similar shape > to DEC VT320 terminals). > > The manuals I have (IIRC) both mention that the systems can be expanded > to run CP/M, but no mention of how or what was needed; there's no > pin-outs of the expansion port, cartridge slots or anything. >>> Owning a Alphatronic PC and 2 Alphatronics > hmm, so what's the difference between the two? Mine are all badged > "Alphatronic PC", but I checked with the university staff before I left > and they never had any floppy / hard drive systems with them... > (This is where I really hate not having my collection around at home, > it's been so long since I've powered one of these things up I can't even > remember what CPU they had. I vaguely recall that they had a lot of > fairly non-standard chips inside though; the CPU may have been a > rebadged part of some description) The Alphatronic PC was the last version of a somewhat successfull line of Alphatronics - The PC is a keyboard computer like the ATARI XL (but with a real keyboard) and based on the Z80. The 'old' Alphatronics where clumpsy cases with fixed keyboard like the CBM, but without a build in CRT - but they had TWO 5,25" 2/3rd high FD drives - both on the right side, one above the other - the case was quite big. As a CPU the 8085 was used. The whole system is build on several EuroCard size boards (all in a rack on the left side - thats why the FDs had to be on the other side. They has several variations (I don't want to call it modells) over the time, but basicly all the same. In Europe, especialy in Germany (their orgin) they sold like Commodores and Apples in average quanities. The PC has been directed to open the home market and to compete against all the home computers of the early '80s. I have some of the early documentation for the old ones, and maybe some newer stuff (manuals for disk etc.) Servus Hans -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

27 years, 10 months

Old Microsoft stuff...

by franke＠sbs.de

>>Another microsoft product which I've not seen mentioned here yet was, of >>course, the Microsoft mouse for PCs (and later those Microsoft keyboards) > Those bus mice? I worked on a friend's machine that had one: A Xerox XT > class running Windows 1.0. 640x400x2 mode I believe. Oh yeah, they were > called Inport Bus mice, ran off their own 8-bit card. Not a bad mouse for > it's time. The BUS Mouse was ... err IS ... a very useful device - I used to put them in my PCs (even Pentium) until the build PS/2 mouse became standard. Serial mice need serial ports, and a PC still has only a few :( Servus Hans -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

27 years, 10 months

Location! Location! Location! was: Something about big iron

by jeff.kaneko＠ifrsys.com

You know John, You are absolutely right. In regards to the IMSAI posted here earlier, it is located in Wichita, Kansas. Please pardon this oversight. Jeff > >Speaking of big iron, if anyone runs across any arcade machines in my > >general area, like within 300-400 miles, I WILL pickup. Looking for mostly > >80's era games, like the old Atari vectors (Tempest, Asteroids, Battlezone, > >etc.) but will take just about anything. > > Location! Location! Location! Isn't this thread all about the > bare fact that most old computers are too heavy or too worthless > to ship by conventional means, and that personal pick-up is necessary? > > Yes, it is. Yet people continue to post "here's an extensive > IMSAI system that you'll need to pick up in person" without a > single word as to where it's located. Argh! > > - John > > > >

27 years, 10 months

What is the first computer?

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

A bunch of lusers with a site that looks like Microsoft's (exactly), and a slogan, "Warez do you want to go today?". >United Cracking wha??? What kind of lusers are they? (To take a wild >guess, those who think VMS is related to PMS, UNIX is dead, Linux is a >nickname, and SPARC is what you get when you try to ignite a firework?) > Ciao, > >Tim D. Hotze >-----Original Message----- >From: Max Eskin <maxeskin(a)hotmail.com> >To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers ><classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> >Date: Wednesday, June 17, 1998 6:04 PM >Subject: Re: What is the first computer? > > >> >> >> >> >>What's a 4004, d00d? I thawt tha first chip was Pantium! >>--Brought to you by the United Cracking Force >>>> 6) First microchip based computer (probably based on the 4004) >>> >>>Shame on you! One does not need microprocessors to make a microchip >>based >>>machine! >>> >>>William Donzelli >>>william(a)ans.net >>> >>> >> >>______________________________________________________ >>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 10 months

Big Iron Was:RE: Backwater areas Was: Re: Cross listing Ebay items

by higginbo＠netpath.net

Burlington, North Carolina Research Triangle Park about 45 minutes to the east of me, Charlotte 150 miles southwest. I know you can get arcade machines on the west coast pretty cheap, but that really doesn't help me. All the big manufacturers are out west. :( At 10:43 AM 6/17/98 -0400, you wrote: >> Speaking of big iron, if anyone runs across any arcade machines in my >> general area, like within 300-400 miles, I WILL pickup. Looking for mostly >> 80's era games, like the old Atari vectors (Tempest, Asteroids, Battlezone, >> etc.) but will take just about anything. > >Well, this leads to the obvious question... > >WHERE ARE YOU? ________________________________________ john higginbotham limbo.netpath.net - webmaster, http://www.pntprinting.com - "Teamwork is essential; it gives the - enemy other people to shoot at." -

27 years, 10 months

Cross listing Ebay items

by peacock＠simconv.com

>During my hiatus, I was spending alot of time on usenet, >a place where this is done all the time. Well no, it isn't done all the time. At least on the comp.sys, comp.os, and alt.comp newsgroups I follow. It's considered spam and those who do it are invited to go elsewhere. Besides, no point in listing that stuff here if you are also going to ebay, the people here know the relative scarcity/worth of the items. On ebay you can take advantage of ignorance and buying frenzy. Jack Peacock

27 years, 10 months

Old Microsoft stuff...

by H.Davies＠latrobe.edu.au

At 04:41 PM 16-06-98 -0500, Doug Yowza wrote: >Don't forget Eunice! OK, maybe it's better that you forget. Sounds of VMS administrator running screaming around the office. I thought I'd got over that "interesting" piece of software, but clearly not :-) Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies(a)latrobe.edu.au Information Technology Services | Phone: +61 3 9479 1550 Fax: +61 3 9479 1999 La Trobe University | "If God had wanted soccer played in the Melbourne Australia 3083 | air, the sky would be painted green"

27 years, 10 months

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test-drb