test-drb

test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

101090 discussions

by JRichardson＠softwright.co.uk

>> Hire the handicapped. They don't get much work done, but they're fun >> to watch. Hmm, I'll take that as a joke - in the way that it was (hopefully) intended. A word of advice though; think twice about what you say on this list - or anywhere else for that matter - as some people could take offence to that comment (and justifiably so!) J. >

27 years, 10 months

PDP model line / rarity?

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 12:11 AM 6/17/98 -0400, you wrote: >Hire the handicapped. They don't get much work done, but they're fun >to watch. Call me a pissing-liberal, but I have to reply... (and yes, I understand it was most likely a joke, but for them what don't understand that...) (And keep in mind that especially on the internet, there is a very high probability that someone who reads your message may be physically challenged. (I know for a fact that at least one person on this list is.)) The "handicapped" are often more productive than the rest of society. Hawking is a good example. I can cite more if you want. So call me hyper-sensitive, but as one who drives around with a crip-card in the car most of the time... Actually, it is the people who seem physically fine that are often the most handicapped. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 10 months

What is the first computer?

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Jun 18, 1:44, Tony Duell wrote: > You've never had a marginal timing problem, or a pattern-related data > problem? I am suprised. > > Put it this way. I had a 1793 that, when it was warm, would not gerenrate > a data request bit if (I think) the last 2 bytes loaded were both FF. > Something totally crazy like that. Took a long time (and a lot of > corrupted disks) to track that one down. > > Ditto for marginal timing that fixes itself when the machine is cold, or > hot, or when you wave your hands over the CPU board, or whatever. My two favourites are both from BBC Micros: 1) a manufacturing fault: a particular machine would work from cold, but fail after about half a minute. It turned out that the IC used to select bank-switched ROMs had been inserted with one pin bent under the chip. It actually looked like it was properly soldered from the top side of the board, and impossible to tell from the underside, because the manufacturing process had skimmed all the protruding pins virtually flush with the board (onme particular subcontractor sometimes skimmed too close and damaged the tracks, but that's another story). Anyway, when it was cold, the bent pin touched the solder in the hole. When it warmed up even slightly, the other pins apparently expanded just enough to raise the IC and the bent pin lost contact. 2) a design fault: the original BBC used a ULA for video timing, and once it was in production, it was quickly found that many would start to give timing errors (manifested as twinkling characters) when they got warm. ULAs do run fairly warm, but they aren't supposed to need heatsinks, so this was a bit puzzling. It turned out that some gates in a chain had been set up as open-collector when they should have had pullups; when cold, the characteristics were such that the output got to a reasonable level quickly enough for the input it was driving, but when the IC was hot the level changed too slowly. As John Coll (who ran the original training courses) put it, if you could drill a hole in the top of the IC, and connect a pullup resistor to the correct gate with a microprobe, you wouldn't need the heatsink. Later versions of the custom chip were indeed provided as "heatsinkless". -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

27 years, 10 months

What is the first computer? (OT: HTML Rendering/Omniweb

by gim＠hitec-uk.com

First off, sorry is this comes through as unreadable garbage, I'm @ work, so I've got to use Lotus notes.... :( Wasn't Omniweb the Web browsers for NeXT machines? Was it ever released on other platforms? If my memory serves me correctly, when MS/NS were having they're best viewed on icon war, Omniweb had an icon with the slogan, "Not to shabby when viewed with OmniWeb". Anyway, I digress, if you import your file into a newer version of word, then save as,with the file type HTML Alternately, there was a plug in released by MS called internet assistant. I'm not sure which versions of word it runs on, check their website for info. Sorry for wandering OT. Grant. "R. Stricklin (kjaeros)" <red(a)bears.org> on 06/18/98 08:28:05 AM Please respond to classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> cc: Subject: Re: What is the first computer? On Thu, 18 Jun 1998, Rax wrote: > HTML table (the timeline runs about 10,000 words and I can't face the > thought of re-typing it), I'll post it on my Web site for list members' > general edification and enlightenment, as well as criticisms, corrections, > and nit-picking. HTML.. table? HTML table? Do you have any idea how long it would take render a table of that size in Omniweb? Ugh. Why not use the list tags, like a sensible person? Using tables as a method of formatting HTML is unforgivable. (: ok r.

27 years, 10 months

old mac cards

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

My thoughts exactly. Look at the card. Is there an intel or cyrix microprocessor on the board? Another hint is four identical square chips (the chipset). >>Duh. I can make a good guess at this one. > >I'll offer $5 for this... When I run across 'em, I stick 'em in the IIci's >in Rachel's classroom. Dunno if it does anything, but it sounds cool. > >>Unknown nubus board >>Has markings DRO1 DEMO PC 10-184464- SER. NO. AA on component side. >>Has several unmarked chips and empty sockets. There is also a good >>deal of loose blue wire running hither and yon. On the end is a female >>37 pin connector. Obviously this is a prototype. Is there any way >>to find out for what? > >Well, Dx-37F is an external floppy connector for PC's. Coupled with the >"PC" in "DEMO PC", I'd guess a hardware PC emulator. > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- O- > >Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad >roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." >Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates >San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 10 months

HP 9825 configurrationss

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

For anyone that cares, here is a list of the configurations of my HP 9825s. Notice there's some funny stuff here. Some are marked 9825A on the back but 9825B in the front next to the display. Several are marked 9825T under the paper cover. #4 says A on the back, B next to the display and T under the cover! You figure that one out! Many of them have a list, under the paper cover, of ROMs that are installed internally in the machine. The ROMs listed are not the same on every machine and they're listed in differnt orders. Also some machines have different amounts of memory. The box mentioned on some of them is a small box that extends out the back where the power cord plug in is located. It looks like a noise filter was added on to some of the machine. Some of these also have the operating system located in a plug ROM located in the side of the machine. Joe #1 9825A SN 1622A07600 also 1637A01402 on back OPT 002 23228 Bytes ROMS 98210A String - Advanced Progranmming 98211A Matrix 98214A 9826A Plotter- General I/O - Extended I/O Has OS ROM in the side 09825-87905 #2 9825B SN 1014A02207 no OS ROM Full Travel keyboard. Has box on the back. Inside paper cover it's marked " 9825T” and lists the following installed devices: 9872A Plotter, General I/O, Extended I/O, Advanced Programming, String, System Programming , Total Memory 61670 Bytes #3 9825A SN 1622A09285 SN 1725A00116 on back Has full travel keyboard and box on the back. has Opt 001 15036 Bytes ROMS 98210A String - Advanced Progranmming 98211A Matrix 98213A General I/O - Extended I/O 98216A Plotter- General I/O - Extended I/O Has OS ROM in the side 09825-87905 #4 9825A (but marked 9825B next to the display) SN 1014A02187 Full Travel keyboard and has the box on the back. Inside paper cover it's marked "9825T" and lists the following installed devices: 9872A Plotter, General I/O, Extended I/O, Advanced Programming, String, System Programming , Total Memory 61670 Bytes No OS ROM No plug in ROMs #5 9825A SN 1622A04464 has chicklet keys Inside paper cover it's marked " 9825A” and lists the following installed devices: 9872A Plotter, General I/O, Extended I/O, String, Advanced Programming, Matrix Opt 001 15036 bytes, Opt 002 23228 bytes. ROMS 98210A String - Advanced Progranmming 98211A Matrix 98216A 9872A Plotter- General I/O - Extended I/O (note: none of these ROMs should be in this machine!) HP 98034B HP-IB Interface HP 98034A HP-IB Interface HP 98032-Opt 85 16 bit I/O w/ HP 9885 Disc Interface ( Yes, it could operate two HP-IB interfaces. As long as they had different addresses.) #6 HP 9825A SN 1622A03718 Has cicklet keys. Option 001 15036 total bytes ROMS 98210A String - Advanced Progranmming 98217A 9885M Flexible Disk Drive 98216A 9872A Plotter- General I/O - Extended I/O Has OS ROM in the side 09825-87905 #7 9825A (but marked 9825B next to the display) Full Travel keyboard. Inside paper cover it's marked " 9825B” and lists the following installed devices: 9872A Plotter, General I/O, Extended I/O, Advanced Programming, String, System Programming , Total Memory 61670 Bytes ROMS 98211A Matrix Has large warning label on outside top warning the user not to install any ROMs other than the 98211 matrix ROM or the 98217A Flexible Disk Drive ROM. Installing any plug-in ROM that is already built into the calculator may cause damage the machine.

27 years, 10 months

What is the first computer?

by jeff.kaneko＠ifrsys.com

<SNIP> > I think there was an automated loom that was invented in the 17th century > that wove a pattern based on a template, but I don't recall if this was a > hole punch reader, a specially shaped gear, or other apparatus. It did > exist though. Although most definitely not a computer as we see them today, > it did take a program for input, process it, and output it in the form of > fabric. (I think this was right before CGA was made a standard...) I remember seeing a picture of this machine-- it was a link-belt of cards in a loop, with holes punched through them. They would pass by this 'reader' thingie which would 'read' the card with a matrix of metal rods poking through the holes. Using cards in such a manner would be like kinda using a ROM chip as a character generator for a CRT display. Hence the wisecrack about CGA is actually not far from the mark! ;^) > >5) First digital computer > > Didn't someone just post a link about the "first digital computer" turning > 50 years old? It was on the BBC website, I believe. > > >6) First microchip based computer (probably based on the 4004) > >7) First computer to sell more than 1,000 > >8) " " " " " " 10,000 > >9) First computer to use a floppy disk (any kind of floppy) > > As for the rest, maybe somone more knowledgable than I can help you there. > > > ________________________________________ > john higginbotham limbo.netpath.net - > webmaster, http://www.pntprinting.com - > "Teamwork is essential; it gives the - > enemy other people to shoot at." - > > > > > >

27 years, 10 months

What is the first computer?

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

The nice thing about mechanisms is that all one needs to understand them theoretically is a finger, some Advil, and the ability to multiply/divide. Following a circuit board is much less intuitive. >I have access to the maintenance manuals for the later (ca.1940) types, >but they are very thick books jammed with drawings. Copying one would be a >real chore. Next time I am in Fall River I can see what I can find in >terms of drawings of the "big picture". > >The computers have _thousands_ of precision moving parts. The nice thing >is that they never broke. I am sure that one could lube up various bits of >one today and it would perfectly. One, a torpedo data computer on the >Submarine Pampanito, has gotten this treatment and does in fact work just >as it did 50 years ago. > >William Donzelli >william(a)ans.net > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 10 months

What is the first computer?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<It reads a set of instructions off the punch card, the gears or what hav <you interprets the pattern, and finally displays the output on the fabric <Sounds like a computer, in the broadest sense. The purists would say tha <it's not a computer unless it computes. I'm sure you could do math on it <with a few simple modifications though. The correct catagory is data processing. Specifics are that it's a predecessor to current CNC! Allison

27 years, 10 months

What is the first computer?

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

>I'd give the honours of 1st computer to the Zuse Z1 - a relay machine >between the Wars, I think. But some mechanical calculators at that date >were quite sophisticated. Comments, anyone?? Well, I'd give computer credit to Babage's machine, ca. 1896, IIRC. He is, after all the one who coined the phrase "computer." Ciao, Tim D. Hotze

27 years, 10 months

Old Microsoft stuff...

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

>It's a popular? misspelling of Xenix by people who can't read. If you >see Zenix on a resume, don't hire that person. Unless they were working for the company of the same name that made PC Mice. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 10 months

Pen Windows 2.0

by higginbo＠netpath.net

At 01:41 PM 6/15/98 -0500, you wrote: >On Mon, 15 Jun 1998, John Higginbotham wrote: > >> Computer: GRiDPad 1912 (V20/2mb/20mb HD/640x400x2 6300 CGA mode > >CGA is 640x200. If you install GEOS, for example, you'll want to use the >AT&T graphics driver. Right. The manual states that 640x400x2 is a "tweaked" CGA mode. >IIRC, Pen Windows 1.0 was for Windows 3.x, and Pen Windows 2.0 was for >Windows 95. GEOS is by far your best bet if you want to burden the thing >with a GUI. I just tried to run it on my desktop. First question it askes was "What 22xx series of GRiDPad are you installing to?" Back to the drawing board. I doubt it'll work with the old 1912. If I could find GEOS, I'd install it. Only version I have is for the C-64. ________________________________________ john higginbotham limbo.netpath.net - webmaster, http://www.pntprinting.com - "Teamwork is essential; it gives the - enemy other people to shoot at." -

27 years, 10 months

TI99: IDE vs. SCSI (for TI & Geneve)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< Actually, you have one thing incorrect... IDE IS speed dependent. SCSI <a COMPLETELY asyncronous bus, IDE is simply an extension of the ISA bus a <does require a MINIMUM throughput of 1 megabit, which is not possible on <4a without buffer space and a DMA controller. Don't tell my z80 that... I debugged the interface using Basic right down to sector reads and writes. I read the spec as it must support 1mbyte/sec minimum to the host not that it required 1mbyte/sec from the host. The IDE is locally buffered just like SCSI so there is no need for speed save for the host can make requests very fast (Pentiums). IDE is also an async bus. Allison

27 years, 10 months

CP/M

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<> Actually the NS* contrller and the apple one are very close in that the <> are minimalist. The NS controller can read media without index/sector < <As is the H17 - a USRT and a few TTL chips. Most of the work is done in <software. A USRT is far mor than minimalist as the NS* con troller is really just bare shift register with timing logic around it. <The H17 waits for a sector hole, waits for sync, reads a sector header (a <checksums it in software), waits for sync, reads data and checksums that Same with the NS* <Does anyone know a source of hard-sectored 5.25" disks (10 sector ones in <particular). I guess they're no longer made, alas. I have thought about <making up a jig, dismantling a soft-sectored disk, punching the extra <holes and putting the disk back in the jacket. Problem is resealing the <edge of the jacket which I've opened. Or doing it insitu using a old drive as a positioner. Allison

27 years, 10 months

Old Microsoft stuff...

by jeff.kaneko＠ifrsys.com

> > <Is there anyone who DIDN'T make a UNIX port? > <Apple - A/UX > <IBM - AIX > <MS - Xenix > <AT&T - UNIX > <DEC? > <DR? > > DEC ported ULTRIX which is close to BSD unix to both PDP11 and VAX. > > DR? I don't think so. > > which is which?: > > Venix Venix86 / 286 By VenturCom - IIRC, an (almost) real-time UNIX variant > Zenix Never Heard of this one . . . > Xenix > > What and who for those. > > Allison > > > >

27 years, 10 months

Old Microsoft stuff...

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

What was so "interesting" about it? Who made it, why, and when? > >>Don't forget Eunice! OK, maybe it's better that you forget. > >Sounds of VMS administrator running screaming around the office. I thought >I'd got over that "interesting" piece of software, but clearly not :-) > > Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies(a)latrobe.edu.au > Information Technology Services | Phone: +61 3 9479 1550 Fax: +61 3 9479 >1999 > La Trobe University | "If God had wanted soccer played in the > Melbourne Australia 3083 | air, the sky would be painted green" > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 10 months

Inventory compaction

by COAKLEY＠AC.GRIN.EDU

> > 1. An Amdek color monitor, originally for use with Apples (I think). RCA > > video input, eighth-inch audio input. I've used this as a spare TV, but > > the screen has a strong green tint to it. It's heavy. > > This was typically used on the Apple ][ line. That's the way I remember it. There was one on the Apple ][+ in my second-grade classroom. > > Spammers: How can you be sure that I don't live in Washington State? > > Did something happen in Washington that I'd like to know about? I've seen > mention to this twice now. The Washington legislature passed anti-spam legislation, and the governor signed it. Here's one site a quick altavista search turned up: http://www.mcnichol.com/spam.htm -- Ben Coakley http://www.math.grin.edu/~coakley coakley(a)ac.grin.edu CMEL: Xavier CBEL: Xavier OH Spammers: How can you be sure that I don't live in Washington State?

27 years, 10 months

old mac cards

by pcoad＠wco.com

As part of a deal I got a small pile of Mac nubus cards. My goal is to identify them and find them new homes before I need to get them shots, fixed, or they start reproducing in my closet like the 1200 bps modem cards seem to be doing. Farallon PhoneNET Card It has AUI and 10BaseT connectors. This one looks like an ethernet card. Is it? Apple Ethernet? card Has what looks like an AUI connector (female 15 pin) but without the locking slide device. Also has female BNC connector. On solder side it has "APPLE COMPUTER (C) 1987 820-0207-A and the word "hoke" near the upper back edge. Apple Macintosh IIci Cache Card (nubus) Duh. I can make a good guess at this one. Unknown nubus board Has markings DRO1 DEMO PC 10-184464- SER. NO. AA on component side. Has several unmarked chips and empty sockets. There is also a good deal of loose blue wire running hither and yon. On the end is a female 37 pin connector. Obviously this is a prototype. Is there any way to find out for what? Make me an offer. I have no way to test these cards. They are offered as is. As always I am looking for cool/old/strange/small Sun stuff. Cash is good too. Thanks, --pec -------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Antique Computer Collection: http://www.wco.com/~pcoad/machines.html

27 years, 10 months

Couldn't be more OT if it tried! Re: (OT, in a way...)

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Well, they had an MCA bus- clearly superior! In fact, they were the closest anyone had ever come to PnP on a Wintel before USB and PCI. Except, it worked much more reliably. And then, there was the issue of quality of case and PCB... Let's put it this way... the PS/2s were actually DESIGNED, unlike many clones, which were cheap junk. And even the ISA machines were quite a bit nicer... >> >>hey, Hey,HEY! ps2 machines were announced in 1987 so they should be talked >>about rather than destroyed. no matter what anyone says, they were state of >>the art. certainly way ahead for their time. > > You MUST be kidding! > > Joe > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 10 months

OT: PS/2 cannon fodder

by peacock＠simconv.com

><< [When I get out my cannon!] > > Do you mean shooting the PS/2 out of the cannon at someone, or > shooting the PS/2 with the cannon? >> > > What a coincidence! I'm going to be shooting a cannon in 2 weeks at a party in the desert. It's a 75mm muzzleloader, 12 lb iron ore crusher balls for ammo. Now, anyone want to donate a PS/2 to discover what kind of damage a 3" cannonball can do? Jack Peacock

27 years, 10 months

Big Iron Was:RE: Backwater areas Was: Re: Cross listing Ebay items

by higginbo＠netpath.net

At 10:25 AM 6/17/98 -0400, you wrote: >> Speaking of big iron, what's the best place to look for DEC10s or 20s? > >Most of us would like that answer. Speaking of big iron, if anyone runs across any arcade machines in my general area, like within 300-400 miles, I WILL pickup. Looking for mostly 80's era games, like the old Atari vectors (Tempest, Asteroids, Battlezone, etc.) but will take just about anything. ________________________________________ john higginbotham limbo.netpath.net - webmaster, http://www.pntprinting.com - "Teamwork is essential; it gives the - enemy other people to shoot at." -

27 years, 10 months

HP 9825B

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

At 06:18 PM 6/17/98 -0500, you wrote: >On Wed, 17 Jun 1998, Joe wrote: > >> I also bid on it but I decided to let you have it since I have several of >> them already. > >Nice of you. I would have done the same. Maybe :-) Actually I think I bid on in it BEFORE you did. > >> There's at least three vesions, the A, the B and a T. The latter ones > >Mine is a B according the badge above the keyboard, but there's a sticker >on the printer paper cubby door that says 9825T. It also says something >about a plotter I don't have. Probably the 9862 or 9872. The are different ROMs for each. The plotters are the same except the 9872 can also digitize. I have a 9862. > > >I take it those are language extension ROMs. I've got Matrix. Yes, they add more functions similar to the plug in ROMs in the HP 41 or HP 71. > > >You have lots of docs? Can I take that as a subtle offer to copy >useful docs? :-) Er ahh no, they're are entirely too many of them! But I am going to thin them out as soon as I have time. > >> There are also two very different keybaords used on them. The 9825 at >> the bottom of your picture has the full travel keyboard. They're more >> desireable. > >More desirable to whom? To everyone but you I guess! >I like the odd-ball full qwerty calc-style >keyboard on mine much better than a normal keyboard! > Then you should be happy! I just posted a list of the configurations of my 9825s. About half of mine have the full travel keys. Joe >-- Doug > >

27 years, 10 months

CP/M

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Most soft-sectored controllers (the LSI ones used in most other micros) <didn't use the index hole for very much, except during formatting. A <suprising number of machines will work quite happily with the index Try it you will find many cases where that is not totally true. <Hard sectored controllers (like the one in my Z-90) do need the sector <holes to find the start of a sector. Reason for that is by counting holes you don't have to look for marks on the disk. Allison

27 years, 10 months

CP/M

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<>OK, I know what a track and a sector is, but what is the difference <>between hardsector and softsector? < < Hard sectored disks have a sensor hole (or slot) for every sector. S <they will have one index hole and 16 sector holes for a 16 sector disk. 17! There is a intermediate hole to signal the start of track (rotation). Allison

27 years, 10 months

Couldn't be more OT if it tried! Re: (OT, in a way...)

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 98-06-17 13:08:49 EDT, Daniel Seagraves responded: << [When I get out my cannon!] Do you mean shooting the PS/2 out of the cannon at someone, or shooting the PS/2 with the cannon? >> hey, Hey,HEY! ps2 machines were announced in 1987 so they should be talked about rather than destroyed. no matter what anyone says, they were state of the art. certainly way ahead for their time. david

27 years, 10 months

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test-drb