test-drb

test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

101090 discussions

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

> I think that there are some exceptions to that Tony. The following is a > clip from some correspondence with Chuck Guzis at Sydex a while back: > > "Another topic that I'd like to see some commentary on is how people > have handled those old diskettes that lack the Index Address Mark > information, such as those used on the Cromemco C10. On a PC > controller, the first sector on a track on such a diskette usually falls > to be seen by the FDC because it falls in the "blind spot" (ostensibly > PLL sync-up time) of the 765-family chip. Have you tried using a controller that doesn't need the Index Address Mark, such as a WD1772 or a NatSemi DP8473 ? > "But 3.5" diskette drives are too difficult to modify. We've had good > read and write results by passing the index signal through a 1-shot > carefully adjusted to trigger slightly ahead of the actual index > position. But this is a very touchy arrangement, though it does work. But the Index Address Mark isn't part of the spec for 3.5" disks. I know most PC controllers put it there, but it's not in the Sony spec, and some controllers (see above) will work fine without it. > I know that I have experienced the problem of the first paragraph on more > than the C10 disks. > - don -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

27 years, 10 months

More stuff acquired

by jon＠techniche.com

Hi, Well this just goes to show how innate this collecting behavior is or maybe I could blame it on altruism? I went back to the surplus store today and picked up the old HP system that was there. This was not as simple as it sounds. The system was wired into a 5 bay 19" rack assemblage. The item obtained is an "HP 2100S Microprogrammable Systems Computer". It looks just like the 2100A shown at: www.trailingedge.com The card cage is fully populated but I haven't a clue at this point with what, with the exception that I already know it does have an async card (with associated moniter) and a GPIB card (and cable). I don't know what condition this is in other than the whole rack of equipment looks like it was decomissioned while still working. Most parts were still wired up. It hadn't been plundered (one or two rack slots were newly emptied). This unit appears to be in good shape. No dents or bent edges. One of the front switch covers is missing (these look like they pop off for lamp replacement). I even have the key for the power lock, an obvious indication that it has been taken care of! There was another expansion card frame in the same rack. Similar box but with no front panel switches. I didn't get this. It is probably still available. I also didn't get any of the i/o card edge connector cables that connect to the other equipment in the 5 bay unit. As it was it took me over an hour to extract this thing from its nest. I did take the GPIB and async i/o cables. Anyone interested in trading something for this beast? The biggest problem I see is that this thing weights about 100 lbs. It would be expensive to ship. Jon

27 years, 10 months

HP 9825 configurrationss

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

At 02:50 AM 6/18/98 -0500, you wrote: >On Wed, 17 Jun 1998, Doug wrote: > > >Fixing my stuck "execute" key looks like it'll be a bastard too. It's not >stuck, the "snap" mechanism appears to be simply gone (not easily >explained since the keyboard appears to be a tight sandwich). I hope that >key isn't important in the big scheme of things, but I have a nagging >suspicion that it's needed to program. Yes, it's important. You press it to execute an expression immediately. You press ENTER (or STORE? I haven't used it in a while) to enter the expression into a stored program. Joe

27 years, 10 months

Quarter classics (was: Big Iron Was:RE: Backwater ar

by franke＠sbs.de

> HRK wrote: Ups :) >>>>Speaking of big iron, if anyone runs across any arcade machines in my >>>>general area, like within 300-400 miles, I WILL pickup. Looking for mostly >>>>80's era games, like the old Atari vectors (Tempest, Asteroids, Battlezone, >>>>etc.) but will take just about anything. >>> And if you know of a robotron in the SF bay area available for cheap, >>> 4-6hours of sleep per night is way too much anyway... 8^) >> Robotron ? >> Talking about the East German Computers ? > [falls on floor laughing] > No. He is talking about video games. > I made exactly that mistake about a year ago - someone mentioned that he > liked Robotron, and I immediately jumped in asking for info about East > German computers! (only to back out, somewhat embarrassed, a few > messages later) Shure, the context is prety clear - I just couldn't resist :) > I have, it seems, the front panel and associated logic from a Robotron > [can't remember the model number]. I bought it on holiday in Munich, > sorry, Muenchen, a few years ago (picture the scene: eccentric hacker > with estate car (station wagon) full of kit, GB plates on the back, > trying to get through customs at Strasbourg. I got so exasperated that > when they asked, "etes-vous espion?" I said "mais oui!") rotfl. > But what I was really wanting to say was, at last someone else who's > heard of the East German Robotron! Do you have any info about them, > what they did, when they did it, specific machines? Is there the > remotest chance that if I post the model number of my stuff you can find > me docs on it? Or tell me where to find docs on it? Hard, I own 2 Robotron PCs (one Z80 CP/M system and one PC Clone), but since I live in Muenchen (:), I'm not in the 'native Environment' of Robotron clasics. But maybe I could forward your questuons to some east German friends. Servus Hans -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

27 years, 10 months

CP/M

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Yes, but Apple ][ disks are not readable on hardsectored controllers <either. You couldn't take a disk from an Apple ][ and read it on a NS* or <a Z17. Actually the NS* contrller and the apple one are very close in that they are minimalist. The NS controller can read media without index/sector as years back I wrote a driver that did track read and writes for to see if I could use softsector media. I had to lay down a lot more marks thats all. The basic NS* read and write counts sectors, then waits for a sync byte and then reads. What the NS* controller cannot do is create the various marks that have missing clocks. Allison

27 years, 10 months

CP/M

by Philip.Belben＠powertech.co.uk

> C'mon. Even I basically know this one. A hard sectored diskette has tiny > little holes (IIRC, near the inside), so that the computer would move from > one to the next in a mechanical manner (hardware), while MOST soft sectored > diskettes had a single hole used for refference. From there, it would just > spin around, and control the rest by software. The Apple II, however, > COMPLETELY ignored this. It could use hard sectored or soft sectored > diskettes, or even diskettes with no little hole at all. It was completely > software driven. Likewise the Commodore 8-bitters. In the early 1980s, I was one of the first in my school (I was 14 or so at the time) to own a floppy disk (yes, a disk, not a drive). I had heard of "flippy disks" with two index holes, which you could turn over, thus using both surfaces in a single sided drive. But I didn't realise you needed to give it a second index hole. So I just cut a second write-permit notch and turned it over. It worked! Commodore 4040 didn't use the index hole! Philip.

27 years, 10 months

What is the first computer?

by franke＠sbs.de

><> And (though no doubt I'll find I'm wrong when I look at those web pages ><> I thought Z3 was a relay machine, not electronic. ><> [Distinction. Relay - switching is performed by moving parts of the ><> circuit. Electronic, whether tubes or solid state, switching acts ><> directly on the electrons (or holes), hence the term] > Mechanical: man or motor powered, bars cams, wheels > Electric: Relays, steppers, solonoids and contacts has logic tree. > Electronic: uses active devices, tubes, transistors, ICs some types of > diodes and neon filled tubes. A good definition, I could agree, althrough I've seen Electric and Electronic the same, since a relay isn't diferent from a transistor or a tube for the effekt (beside the current). Servus Hans -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

27 years, 10 months

Robotron

by Philip.Belben＠powertech.co.uk

Sorry, folks. We have some intermittent mail problems here and I accidentally got set to POSTPONE again. If Hans Franke (or anyone else) has posted a reply to my Robotron query, please send me - privately - another copy. Address, Philip.Belben(a)powertech.co.uk Thanks. Philip.

27 years, 10 months

Old Mac OS.... Help PLS!

by franke＠sbs.de

> Recently, I just got an old Mac IIci, which has 40M HDD & 8M RAM. After > all, I added the RAM to 32M, and also want to change the stupid 40M SCSI > HDD to a larger one.... But the problem is, I just can't find a diskette > version of Mac OS 7.5.x for it... What can I do...?? > If anyone has the old Mac OS, would you all pls make a copy for me?? I will > pay the shipping and diskette cost..... (Coz, I don't think if I can get a > new copy from APPLE.. :( ) Buy a external SCSI CD-ROM and install from CD - they should be sill availabe at Apple dealers (the CDs) - maybe they even give the CD away for free. Maybe they even lend you the CD drive for a small fee. The other solution is just to keep the 40 MB drive and use it as boot drive or, third solution, just use it once paralell to copy the system folder. If you plan to use the ci futher, a CD is a must to auire new soft. Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

27 years, 10 months

What is the first computer?

by franke＠sbs.de

>> The first programable general purpose computer is for shure >> the Z1. And the first electronic computer is the Z3 since >> the Z1 was just mechanical. Also both are the first binary >> floating point computers (Babage used decimal wheels). > Hey! They can't both be the first floating point binary machine! > Presumably the Z1 was. Z1 first computer, first floating point and binary computer but mechanical. Z3 the same (but better) and electronical. > And (though no doubt I'll find I'm wrong when I look at those web pages) > I thought Z3 was a relay machine, not electronic. > [Distinction. Relay - switching is performed by moving parts of the > circuit. Electronic, whether tubes or solid state, switching acts > directly on the electrons (or holes), hence the term] Different definition: In mechanical computers (and calculators) the information is proccessed and transported by mechanical actions/things - like wheels or pushin/pulling bars. In electronical computers information is processed and transported by flow of electricity. So the Z1 is pure mechanical (the only electrcal component was (is) the motor to drive all bars), while the Z3 is electronical. The Z2 was in fact a mixed up - The storage memory was mechanical (used from the Z1) but the CPU was electronic (Relais). You see ? There are mix ups already in the early evolution - Zuse even thought about using tubes instead of relais, but they have been way to expensive. Later on there have been again mixed ups. Relais + mechanical + tubes - or Tubes plus transistors + relais ... and so on. (Oh and even my APPPLE ][+ was a mixed up - he utilized a relay on the 80 colum card for switching :) > Was the Z3 like the Z4 in using old 35mm cine film for punched tape? > (don't try and read it with an optical reader!!!!) Never heard of opto-mechanics ? *g* In fact all early Zuse computers used old cine tapes. Z1, Z2, Z3, Z4. >> P.S.: The first calculatin machine might be the one of >> Wilhelm Schickard from 1623. > What date was Pascal's calculator, someone? 1642 > Irony of the week: the > Pascal calculator in the London Science Museum is a decimal model. That > in the Deutches Museum is a Pounds, Shillings and Pence model. :-) Afaik they also own a decimal one, but Pounds, Shillings and Pence ar _way_way_way_ more exotic :) - It gets a lot more attention than 'just' decimal calculaters, althrough the difference are only some of the wheels. Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

27 years, 10 months

What is the first computer?

by franke＠sbs.de

>>> P.S.: The first calculatin machine might be the one of >>> Wilhelm Schickard from 1623. >> Johann Kepler tried to build some kind of calculator too I think. > Does Blaise Pascal's box count? 19 Jears to late - Pascals machine is dated 1942. But thinking again, we should define what a 'calulatoer' is for our search of the first one - Right now I prefer the definition of a macanic machine to add and subtract numbers, displayed in (decimal) digits by pointers or similar, without restrictions to special numbers. This excludes analogous calculators and special purpose thingis. Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

27 years, 10 months

8008 Datasheets

by ddameron＠earthlink.net

At 02:04 AM 6/19/98 -0500, Doug Yowza wrote: >On Thu, 18 Jun 1998, dave dameron wrote: > >> I have a bunch of stuff on the 8008, some too much for me to easily copy >> completely, including the MCS-8 8008 Users Manual (126 pages). > >That sounds interesting. How much of that is just instruction set? If >that chapter is smallish, a copy would be great! I'm looking for info >sufficient to write a simulator, so ISA + exceptions/interrupts/etc. >should do the trick. > The stuff on instructions, timing states, interrupts, etc. is about 12 pages. The 8008 instructions (48) are simple enough that someone just learning how to write a computer program (Me back then) could understand all of them. Interesting, back then, 1973, Intel sold a simulator as a Fortran IV program, or it could be run on a time-share service. Also a cross assembler. The resident assembler took 2k - 8 1702 EPROMS for their SIM8 microcomputer board. >> In the 1976 Intel Data catalog, there is a 7 page data sheet: >> Page 1 Title and block diag. >> page 2 Photomicrograph >> Page 3 Functional pin description >> Page 4,5 Instruction set >> Page 6 Ratings, D.C., A.C. characteristics >> Page 7 Timing Diagram > >Good stuff, but I've already had one offer for a copy. Since it's small, >I'll try to get around to web-izing it. (Intel copyright lawyers be >damned! (At least until they ask me to take it down.)) > >-- Doug > -Dave

27 years, 10 months

wet disks

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

I just picked up a bag full of 5.25" disks, that are completely soaked by rain. How do I dry them so that a)they are usable at least long enough to transfer the software b)I run a reasonable chance of saving the labels ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 10 months

8008 Datasheets

by mallison＠konnections.com

You might want to check out the MDP-8008 Assembler Users Manual at: http://jldh449-1.intmed.mcw.edu/assembler-doc.html -Mike ---------- From: dave dameron Sent: Thursday, June 18, 1998 5:47 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Re: 8008 Datasheets Hi Doug and all, At 05:04 PM 6/18/98 -0500, you wrote: >Does anybody have Intel 8008 datasheets that they're willing to copy for >me? I'll gladly pay for the copying/shipping. > > I have a bunch of stuff on the 8008, some too much for me to easily copy completely, including the MCS-8 8008 Users Manual (126 pages). In the 1976 Intel Data catalog, there is a 7 page data sheet: Page 1 Title and block diag. page 2 Photomicrograph Page 3 Functional pin description Page 4,5 Instruction set Page 6 Ratings, D.C., A.C. characteristics Page 7 Timing Diagram -Dave

27 years, 10 months

Old Mac OS.... Help PLS!

by mallison＠konnections.com

They're on the web at: www.sunrem.com Mike ---------- From: Ken Yaksa Sent: Friday, June 19, 1998 2:06 AM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Re: Old Mac OS.... Help PLS! Hi Pamela Allison: > If you can't find one, check with Sun Remarketing in Smithfield Utah. They will sell all the way back to version 3.2 on 400 k disks. But the problem is that I live in Hong Kong.... :(

27 years, 10 months

What is the first computer?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< <> And (though no doubt I'll find I'm wrong when I look at those web pages <> I thought Z3 was a relay machine, not electronic. < <> [Distinction. Relay - switching is performed by moving parts of the <> circuit. Electronic, whether tubes or solid state, switching acts <> directly on the electrons (or holes), hence the term] Mechanical: man or motor powered, bars cams, wheels Electric: Relays, steppers, solonoids and contacts has logic tree. Electronic: uses active devices, tubes, transistors, ICs some types of diodes and neon filled tubes. Allison

27 years, 10 months

Inventory compaction

by COAKLEY＠AC.GRIN.EDU

> My mom got fed up by the amount of junk I have in my room, so I will > start to get rid of it (something I'd been planning to do). My girlfriend's getting fed up by the amount of junk I have in our apartment, so I'm trying to get rid of some of it, too. Shipping costs are all I'm looking for (trades accepted, too, though preferably for small things). 1. An Amdek color monitor, originally for use with Apples (I think). RCA video input, eighth-inch audio input. I've used this as a spare TV, but the screen has a strong green tint to it. It's heavy. 2. A Commodore 64, sold to me as not working, never bothered to test it. No power supply or anything. 3. A docking station for a Compaq laptop - 386/486, exact model unknown. -- Ben Coakley http://www.math.grin.edu/~coakley coakley(a)ac.grin.edu CMEL: Xavier CBEL: Xavier OH Spammers: How can you be sure that I don't live in Washington State?

27 years, 10 months

Need help with Mac Classic

by museum＠techniche.com

Hi Megan, If you're looking for a place to donate some computer (mac or otherwise), I'll take it. I'm trying to organize my personal collection in to a formal museum-like display. I'm always looking to expand that collection. At present it has 0 apple computer systems in it! I own my own software company and I am trying to do this in our warehouse area. I intend that it should remain a privately owned collection, but I'd like to open it up to public viewing, by appointment anyway. That way I could show it to groups like ham clubs, schools, software and hardware professional groups, etc. It's not a non-profit organization (in fact it's not legally any kind of formal organization, although my company informally subsidizes it), so there wouldn't be any tax write-off. Keep me in mind, Jon Healey techNiche, Inc. (603) 626-7000 >> My partner's classroom received a Mac Classic, donated by a parent. >> I've never done anything with Macs, so I need some help with this. >> >> - Can someone tell me the standard configuration(s) for a Mac Classic? >> >> - What options are available for it? >> >> - Where can I get a mouse (and other hardware) - Do I need a mouse? >> Can I get along without one? >> >> - Where can I get an operating system for it (MacOS?) >> >> Any and all help appreciated... >> >> Megan Gentry >> Former RT-11 Developer >> > >Get in touch with me and I'll be glad to help you out. >I can cut the OS on Mac disks for you. >I also have a couple of old Mac Plus systems that I've been looking >to donate somewhere. > >I can probably dig up a mouse as well. > >Bill >+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ >| Bill/Carolyn Pechter | 17 Meredith Drive | Tinton Falls, New Jersey 07724 | >| 908-389-3592 | Save computing history, give an old geek old hardware. | >| pechter(a)shell.monmouth.com | >+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ >

27 years, 10 months

8008 Datasheets

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<That sounds interesting. How much of that is just instruction set? If <that chapter is smallish, a copy would be great! I'm looking for info <sufficient to write a simulator, so ISA + exceptions/interrupts/etc. <should do the trick. The instruction set is some 48 instructions and most are real simple. to make a sim you need timing, instruction set functions and a few trivial details. one thing, write in something like interpreted pascal, the 8008 was slow as the fast part did a register to register move in a whopping 10.8 microseconds. To give an idea of how slow that is the 8080 did it in 2 us, z80/4mhz in 1us, 8048 2.5us, 8051/11mhz 1us, 8088/5mhz 1us. The 8008 was slow! Allison

27 years, 10 months

CP/M

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<"But 3.5" diskette drives are too difficult to modify. We've had good <read and write results by passing the index signal through a 1-shot <carefully adjusted to trigger slightly ahead of the actual index <position. But this is a very touchy arrangement, though it does work. < <I know that I have experienced the problem of the first paragraph on more <than the C10 disks. < - don Some formats produced with 1771 or 179x can be nasty. The fix is to delay the index using two oneshots one set long (95% or a rotation) and the second long enough to provide a recognizable pulse. This trick can permit you to "move" the index sensor as needed electronically. Allison

27 years, 10 months

Need help with Mac Classic

by mbg＠world.std.com

My partner's classroom received a Mac Classic, donated by a parent. I've never done anything with Macs, so I need some help with this. - Can someone tell me the standard configuration(s) for a Mac Classic? - What options are available for it? - Where can I get a mouse (and other hardware) - Do I need a mouse? Can I get along without one? - Where can I get an operating system for it (MacOS?) Any and all help appreciated... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry(a)zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg(a)world.std.com | | Digital Equipment Corporation | | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

27 years, 10 months

Need help with Mac Classic

by jolminkh＠nsw.bigpond.net.au

I'm also playing with a Mac Classic at the moment. Mine had 2Mb RAM, a 20Mb hard drive and the keyboard and mouse. I believe they are very similar to the SE, just more economical to manufacture and with a 1.4Mb floppy drive. > >My partner's classroom received a Mac Classic, donated by a parent. >I've never done anything with Macs, so I need some help with this. > >- Can someone tell me the standard configuration(s) for a Mac Classic? Ram on the mainboard is 1Mb but there is an extender card usually fitted with another 1Mb and room for 2 X 30pin simms. I put 2 X 1Mb PC simms in it and they work fine. There is a jumper to move to do this. Well marked. 4Mb is max RAM. I replaced the hard drive with a 120Mb SCSI drive but the initialization program in the OS only works on Apple branded disks. I'm still trying to sort this out. > >- What options are available for it? > >- Where can I get a mouse (and other hardware) - Do I need a mouse? > Can I get along without one? You need a mouse. I have accumulated a few from garage sales etc. There are two types. You can't use the one from very early Macs, you need the one with a PS/2 size connector. Same as the keyboard, and in fact it plugs into the normal keyboard. > >- Where can I get an operating system for it (MacOS?) I also picked these up at garage sales. I have been told to stick with System 6 because System 7 takes up too much memory for this machine. Hans

27 years, 10 months

What is the first computer?

by Philip.Belben＠powertech.co.uk

HRK wrote: > A neat (english) description of the Z1 and Z3 could be found at > http://www.zib.de/prospekt/zuse/zusez1z3.html > (Hard code documentation) or > http://bang.lanl.gov/video/sunedu/computer/z1z4.html > (soft :) Thanks - I'll have a look at those! > The first programable general purpose computer is for shure > the Z1. And the first electronic computer is the Z3 since > the Z1 was just mechanical. Also both are the first binary > floating point computers (Babage used decimal wheels). Hey! They can't both be the first floating point binary machine! Presumably the Z1 was. And (though no doubt I'll find I'm wrong when I look at those web pages) I thought Z3 was a relay machine, not electronic. [Distinction. Relay - switching is performed by moving parts of the circuit. Electronic, whether tubes or solid state, switching acts directly on the electrons (or holes), hence the term] Was the Z3 like the Z4 in using old 35mm cine film for punched tape? (don't try and read it with an optical reader!!!!) > P.S.: The first calculatin machine might be the one of > Wilhelm Schickard from 1623. What date was Pascal's calculator, someone? Irony of the week: the Pascal calculator in the London Science Museum is a decimal model. That in the Deutches Museum is a Pounds, Shillings and Pence model. :-) Philip.

27 years, 10 months

Quarter classics (was: Big Iron Was:RE: Backwater are

by Philip.Belben＠powertech.co.uk

HRK wrote: >>>Speaking of big iron, if anyone runs across any arcade machines in my >>>general area, like within 300-400 miles, I WILL pickup. Looking for mostly >>>80's era games, like the old Atari vectors (Tempest, Asteroids, Battlezone, >>>etc.) but will take just about anything. > >> And if you know of a robotron in the SF bay area available for cheap, >> 4-6hours of sleep per night is way too much anyway... 8^) > > Robotron ? > > Talking about the East German Computers ? [falls on floor laughing] No. He is talking about video games. I made exactly that mistake about a year ago - someone mentioned that he liked Robotron, and I immediately jumped in asking for info about East German computers! (only to back out, somewhat embarrassed, a few messages later) I have, it seems, the front panel and associated logic from a Robotron [can't remember the model number]. I bought it on holiday in Munich, sorry, Muenchen, a few years ago (picture the scene: eccentric hacker with estate car (station wagon) full of kit, GB plates on the back, trying to get through customs at Strasbourg. I got so exasperated that when they asked, "etes-vous espion?" I said "mais oui!") But what I was really wanting to say was, at last someone else who's heard of the East German Robotron! Do you have any info about them, what they did, when they did it, specific machines? Is there the remotest chance that if I post the model number of my stuff you can find me docs on it? Or tell me where to find docs on it? Philip. <><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Philip Belben <><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Bloedem Volke unverstaendlich treiben wir des Lebens Spiel. Grade das, was unabwendlich fruchtet unserm Spott als Ziel. Magst es Kinder-Rache nennen an des Daseins tiefem Ernst; Wirst das Leben besser kennen, wenn du uns verstehen lernst. Poem by Christian Morgenstern - Message by Philip.Belben(a)powertech.co.uk

27 years, 10 months

Old Mac OS.... Help PLS!

by yaksaken＠hkstar.com

Hi Pamela Allison: > If you can't find one, check with Sun Remarketing in Smithfield Utah. They will sell all the way back to version 3.2 on 400 k disks. But the problem is that I live in Hong Kong.... :(

27 years, 10 months

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test-drb