I have that program, and I have only been able to copy something
so that the mac could read it only a couple of times. There is a
problem of it being unable to copy a file with both sides of the fork
used (i.e. you can dump everything into the resource fork, or
everything into the data fork, but can't use both. Executor stores
the two as separate files, it would be nice if I could tell Mac-ette
to use bla for the data fork of bbb and blb for the resource fork
of bbb. Alas...)
>>
ftp://ftp5.info.apple.com/Apple.Support.Area/Apple_SW_Updates/US/Macintosh/S
>> yste
>> > m/Older_System/
>> >
>> > Of course you need a functional Mac to make the floppies. If you
have
>> both
>> > hard drives, simply make sure the SCSI ID's are set to different
numbers,
>> > and either leave both in the machine, or copy the 40Mb drive to the
>> larger
>> > one. Another more expensive alternative would be to get a external
>> CD-ROM
>> > and a copy of MacOS on CD.
>>
>> Umm.... If there has any method to build up the Mac Discs on a PC??
>
>Yes, there is a free(?)/share(?)ware program named MAC-ETTE that will
>format, read, and write the 1.44mb Mac disks. The problem that most of
>us non-Mac yokels have is trying to figure out what goes in which fork!
>
>You should be abble to find it with a Web search.
>
> - don
>
>
>> Yours,
>> Ken Yaksa
>>
>
>
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
At 09:25 PM 6/18/98 -0700, you wrote:
>
>New Topic! Ok people: what sort of storage media (and for what system) did
>you guys carry around to start out with?
>
[Joel Fedorko]
Mid-Late '70s -
Punch Cards (80 col) for the IBM box
Paper tape for various HP & DEC boxes (with upgrades to mylar in the later years),
tape cartridges for the HP2645A Mini Data Station,
tape cassettes for a TI? terminal,
DECtape PDPs,
LINCtape (relative of DECtape) DEC, DG, Varian, Perkin-Elmer, Altair
Late 70s early 80s
9 Track tape dominated across the board
8" floppy for micro's
Brief encounter with the 96 column System 32 punch card
40 Meg disk pack for HP3000 (forget drive part#, it was made by CDC?)
<> Mechanical: man or motor powered, bars cams, wheels
<> Electric: Relays, steppers, solonoids and contacts has logic tree.
<> Electronic: uses active devices, tubes, transistors, ICs some types of
<> diodes and neon filled tubes.
<
<A good definition, I could agree, althrough I've seen
<Electric and Electronic the same, since a relay isn't
<diferent from a transistor or a tube for the effekt
<(beside the current).
The distinction for the last two is significant from a design and speed
standpoint. the design process is very different at the detail level.
Allison
From: Philip.Belben(a)powertech.co.uk
Subject: Re[2]: CP/M
> Likewise the Commodore 8-bitters. In the early 1980s, I was one of the
> first in my school (I was 14 or so at the time) to own a floppy disk
> (yes, a disk, not a drive).
Gosh what memories, did you lug around a box of cassettes too??? Yeah,
disks back then were about $5.00 (US) a shot [not to be confused with
ammunition in previous off topics, though I can wield a mean VIC-20] for the
cheap SS/SD ones.
New Topic! Ok people: what sort of storage media (and for what system) did
you guys carry around to start out with?
I started with cassettes for the PETs at high school, though not as old as
some but still nostalgic. I still have my original first tape, though it had
been transfered to a new housing and snaps when a good (assertive?) datasette
rewinds it, it is still readable.
--
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
Larry Anderson - Sysop of Silicon Realms BBS (300-2400bd) (209) 754-1363
Visit my Commodore 8-Bit web page at:
http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/commodore.html
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
A large circulation (100,000) alternative publication in Toronto has run
several Chiapas-related articles the last couple of weeks. for the latest check
out
http://www.now.com/issues/current/News/feature2.html
They are slightly left of center and have a large influence among younger
people.
ciao Larry
lwalker(a)interlog.com
<>New Topic! Ok people: what sort of storage media (and for what system)
<>you guys carry around to start out with?
<>
8 level paper tape, boces/lirics PDP-8I timeshare system 1969
DECTAPE BOCES/LIRICS PDP-10 (tops-10) timeshare system 1970
MITS ACR casette(300baud), 1975
2400baud NRZ using audio cassette hardware (homebrew)late 1975
4800baud FM using audio cassettes early 1976
DRUM memory (real ugly four track, stored 32kb)
NS* microfloppy (5.25 sa400) late 1976
Just a few I've played with...
Allison
"Max Eskin" <maxeskin(a)hotmail.com> said:
>Do you have any diagrams of the mechanical fire control computers?
Try going to your local Federal building and look for the Goverment
Book Store. There you can find many different military training manuals.
Look for Navy manuals for Fire Control Technician 3 and 2. If you can
find it, it should have plenty of information on mechanical fire control
computers (At least they did 30 years ago).
I'm sure the Navy still uses these kind of computers on older ships with
5" guns.
=========================================
Doug Coward dcoward(a)pressstart.com
Senior Software Engineer
Press Start Inc.
Sunnyvale,CA
Curator
Museum of Personal Computing Machinery
http://www.best.com/~dcoward/museum
=========================================
On Jun 18, 21:25, Larry Anderson wrote:
> Yeah,
> disks back then were about $5.00 (US) a shot [not to be confused with
> ammunition in previous off topics, though I can wield a mean VIC-20] for
the
> cheap SS/SD ones.
I recall being one of the first at the college I worked at then, to own
floppies. I remember the price was a few pounds each around 1980, and one
local supplier sold them to students one at a time. Unfortunately (for the
dealer) not all the staff realised the price was per floppy, not per
box-of-10, and a few of us reaped the benefit of that. I still use some of
those disks in an Apple ][.
> New Topic! Ok people: what sort of storage media (and for what system)
did
> you guys carry around to start out with?
Most of my early computing was done on machines that used punched cards or
paper tape, but I didn't often get to keep the cards, and sadly I have no
cards or paper tape now. The first thing I carried about regularly was
cassette tape (CUTS format).
BTW, DECtape is 3/4" not 1" as Jim suggested (slip of the pen?). I still
have some, but alas no deck to read it on.
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Dept. of Computer Science
University of York
At 06:30 AM 6/16/98 -0400, you wrote:
>>
>> Hello all,
>> I have found a AT&T 6310 PC box. Can anyone tell me anything about it? Is it
>> 10 years old, yet? It is heavy enough I'd thought it had a large
>>linear supply in it, but only a switcher ps! It was made in Italy by
>> Olivetti, as mentioned on the 6300 thread.
>
>Thats a 10MHZ 80286 box which was one of the last Olivetti AT&T PC's.
>
>Bill
>
Would anyone like it? Otherwise, I may find a use for it as a case or
"parts" set, as radio collectors say (I actually like to build old radios as
another hobby), as I don't have a keyboard, etc. for it. It would have to be
a pickup, as it weighs about 40 lb, (18kg)! I live in So. California,
Manhattan Beach.
-Dave
This is one for the, "You can't do squat with those dumb old computers"
file... I picked up a book at a thrift today, called, NEW HORIZONS IN
AMATEUR ASTRONOMY by Grant Fjermedal (C) 1989. Before I got out of the
first chapter I read this excellent little tidbit:
"...David Gedalia, of California's San Fernando Valley, attracted a lot
of attention by day and night with his 10-inch reflector on a
servo-controlled Dobsonian mount. This was set up near the back of his
pickup truck on the upper field, and on the tailgate of the truck was a
simple 64K Atari 800 computer running a star finding program that
Gedalia had written himself.
He had all the objects from Messier (the classic catalog of 104
prominent galaxies, nebulae, and other objects identified in the late
1700s) and several hundred other objects from the more voluminous New
General Catalog. It was so nice at night to see him enter a Messier
number, hit "Return" and listen to the purr of the servos as they
positioned the object right in the center of the eyepiece field..."
> From: mbg(a)world.std.com (Megan)
> Subject: Need help with Mac Classic
>
> My partner's classroom received a Mac Classic, donated by a parent.
> I've never done anything with Macs, so I need some help with this.
>
> - Can someone tell me the standard configuration(s) for a Mac Classic?
>
68000 processor 1 to 2 megs of RAM
> - What options are available for it?
>
You can add up to 4 megs of RAM assuming you have the extra RAM expansion card
if not you have 1 until you locate the card to plug more SIMMs in.
There are a few accellerators (such as the MicroMac) but they are not all that
much faster when you get down to serious work.
No expansion, no color... :/ It will get you crawling on the internet with
B/W Mac Web and Eudora though.
You can get printers (apple ImageWriter, Stylewriter or Stylewriter II,
anything later wouldn't work or a Parallel printer using a PowerPrint
interface), external modems, extra drives, some decent educational programs,
decent applications (I recommend Claris Works 2 or 3) etc. for it, there is
still some usefullness in it.
> - Where can I get a mouse (and other hardware) - Do I need a mouse?
> Can I get along without one?
Barely, assuming you can activate the mousekeys (if the extension is in your
system) by pressing SHIFT-COMMAND-[KEYPAD]CLEAR, then you have the keypad
numbers to move the pointer and the 5 as a mouse button. I would really
recommend a mouse, thrift stores or used computer shops are a good try at
first, if not you can find used mice available somewhat reasonably on the
internet like in
news:misc.forsale.computers.mac-specific.misc
>
> - Where can I get an operating system for it (MacOS?)
>
You can download it from the Apple site (www.apple.com) up to system 7... You
would be best to get 7.1 (no higher, it will bog down your 68000/4meg unit too
much) also available from resellers. System 7 is the minimum for somewhat
decent (read painless) internet access.
A Classic II is a much more capable machine... :/
> Any and all help appreciated...
>
Lemme know if you have any more, I still deal with them from time to time at
work (I don't think too much longer though I think most of our organization
will be color Macs and 'those other computers' soon... (=))
--
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
Larry Anderson - Sysop of Silicon Realms BBS (300-2400bd) (209) 754-1363
Visit my Commodore 8-Bit web page at:
http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/commodore.html
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
At 09:25 PM 6/18/98 -0700, Larry Anderson wrote:
> I started with cassettes for the PETs at high school, though not as old as
>some but still nostalgic. I still have my original first tape, though it had
>been transfered to a new housing and snaps when a good (assertive?) datasette
>rewinds it, it is still readable.
I too started with cassettes, but in my early years it was Apple II and
Commodore VIC-20/C-64/C-16 tapes. A friend of mine (the owner of the C-16)
didn't have a datasette. He's pretty artistic; he'd sit there for hours,
plotting graphics through BASIC to the screen, only to lose it all when the
power was offed. He did have a VCR though, and would record the images on
VHS tape. (I wonder what he ever did with that tape, anyway?)
-
- john higginbotham ____________________________
- webmaster www.pntprinting.com -
- limbo limbo.netpath.net -
jon(a)techniche.com (Jon Healey) wrote:
> I went back to the surplus store today and picked up
> the old HP system that was there. This was not as simple
> as it sounds. The system was wired into a 5 bay 19" rack
> assemblage.
It reads to me like what you got was the *processor*. And I have to
wonder, why did you take it out? OK, I understand for transport but
you also wrote that there was an expansion card frame (which might
have more I/O cards) and other units in the rack. They may not be
essential to operation of the processor but they probably do go
together. Processors ain't everything ya know.
> The item obtained is an "HP 2100S Microprogrammable Systems Computer".
> It looks just like the 2100A shown at: www.trailingedge.com
>
> The card cage is fully populated but I haven't a clue at this
> point with what, with the exception that I already know it does
> have an async card (with associated moniter) and a GPIB
> card (and cable).
OK. If you take the top off, the cards in in the wider cage right
behind the front panel are the CPU proper (in slots 1-7 I think, with
options in 8 and 9 and maybe 10, though I may be off by one or two
here -- it's been a while since I looked) and the I/O interfaces. The
cards in the narrower cage about halfway back are memory (core) and
drivers for same. The not-card-cage areas contain power supply and
fans.
There should be part numbers and legends on at least some of the card
ears that give some clues what the cards are/do. Also the cards
themselves will often have part numbers etched. Of course I don't
have my books handy so can't post a handy decoder chart just now (and
doubt it would be complete even if I did). Feel free to post a list,
then sit back and watch us guess what you've got.
Given that this one says "Microprogrammable" on the front panel I
wonder if it has the WCS (Writable Control Store) option.
All that said...the 2100 is a second-generation HP mini from 1972, the
follow-on to the 2116/2115/2114 and predecessor to the 21MX that came
later in the 1970s. These processors formed the basis of the HP2000
time-shared BASIC and HP1000 real-time computer lines, as well as many
other special-purpose computer systems that HP developed and sold.
Overall they are a 16-bit two-accumulator architecture; the 2100 is
part hard-wired part microcoded with room for growth in the microcode,
while the earlier 2116/2115/2114 were purely hard-wired processors.
> Anyone interested in trading something for this beast?
>
> The biggest problem I see is that this thing weights
> about 100 lbs. It would be expensive to ship.
I'm interested but am thinking that you're in New Hampshire and I'm in
California. Shipping is possible but you're right, you can't just
toss this in a cardboard box with some peanuts or bubblewrap, so if
someone closer by says the magic words ("I'll come pick it up") or you
decide you want to keep it I'd say go for it. Besides, I'd want you
to go back for the rest of it. Foo, I want you to go back for the
rest of it *anyway*.
-Frank McConnell
In a message dated 98-06-17 22:37:02 EDT, you write:
<< I have a model 80 with built in SCSI that won't survive the next trash
pick up! My neighbor just pitched his model 70. I didn't bother to take
it out of the trash! I have a LOT of PCs that are a lot older than any PS-2
ever made! Altair -1976, IBM 5100 - 1977, HP 9100 - 1968, lots of HP
9815s, HP 9825s and HP 85s from the '70s.
You left out the idiotic micro-channel bus!
Joe >>
well, so you dont like mca. that's fine, but the 8580 didnt come with scsi
built in. the hard drive in it was ESDI. the premium series had built in scsi
on the planar. let me correct myself in saying that my model 77 will certainly
outlast any IBM-PC compatible machine of its era. please note that i am
comparing MCA to ISA here. im not disparaging any other type.
david
Hi there...
> Actually you can get copies of 6.0.x and 7.0.x from one of their FTP
sites
>
ftp://ftp5.info.apple.com/Apple.Support.Area/Apple_SW_Updates/US/Macintosh/S
yste
> m/Older_System/
>
> Of course you need a functional Mac to make the floppies. If you have
both
> hard drives, simply make sure the SCSI ID's are set to different numbers,
> and either leave both in the machine, or copy the 40Mb drive to the
larger
> one. Another more expensive alternative would be to get a external
CD-ROM
> and a copy of MacOS on CD.
Umm.... If there has any method to build up the Mac Discs on a PC??
Yours,
Ken Yaksa
>>
>>Hard, I own 2 Robotron PCs (one Z80 CP/M system and one PC Clone),
>>but since I live in Muenchen (:), I'm not in the 'native Environment'
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>of Robotron clasics. But maybe I could forward your questuons to some
>>east German friends.
> Well, Hans, I *thought* you had to be Bavarian (Bayerische)!! Either that
> or perhaps Austrian because of your signoff ("Servus").
You're the first US citicen to recognize this :)
> Will be over again in one year or more.
Great - give me a call (or a mail :) and I'll show yo usome
of my babys.
> Great to have you on the list as I've not seen
> postings of yours since the time I had joined last November until recently
> I think.
I just joined two weeks ago after Sam Ismail pointed
me to the list (we had some discusion about VCF - I
will come to see it - and other strange things).
> Good to have a person in our group who is nearby to the Deutches
> Museum who seems to have a very good early computer collection (saw it in
> 1994 or 95. Been there four times since '93).
You just searched a phon directory ? Didn't you ? Or
who told you that I live near the Deutsches Museum ?
True, my apartment is just 100m from the (back) entrance.
Their _very_ early collection - up to the Zuse - ist quite
good, but anything later is crap - or at least the display
is crap - I left the museum society because of the computer
displays. I'm especialy upset because they have _real_
unique things to show in a _unique_ way, but they just build
some junk place.
Ok, I have to be fair - the dispaly is quite amazing, but
in my opinion they ignored a lot of one-of-a-kind chances
just to finish it for the grand opening.
Example: they recived a _complete_ SIEMENS 2002, the first
fuly transistorized copmuter. Not only the main boxes -
they got _everything_ needed to show the machine complete,
including _all_ manuals, even spare parts. I think it would
have been possible to rebuild this marvelous machine and
power it up (ok, once) to show it. Maybe it is still possible,
but it has to be done soon - right now several of the old
tecnicans are still alive, but in ten years from now noone
will be here to tell the story.
Oh, next time when you visit the Deutsches Museum, take a
look at the Operator desk of the 2002 - you'll find a burned
spot, done by a cigarette. I know the guilty one - a friend
of mine, now retired, did it while they tried to find a power
up problem at the main drum - he acidently left his cigaret
at te desk and got so involved that he forgot it - BIG trouble.
> Wish I knew enough German to
> actually speak it but Bayerische is even harder to understand ;)
Amazing - I always had problems the other way.
> Gruss! Bis spaeter, Chris
Jo bis nacha.
Servus
Hans
--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK
>>I never heard of it, but maybe he thought about some
>>machine in his time as Imperial Mathematician in Prag
>>(1601..1612 - nice history on
>>http://www.kepler.arc.nasa.gov/johannes.html
>>) - but afaik the idea of calculating machines
>>did recive more attention (althrough more seen
>>as scince fiction) after the invention of the
>>Taschenuhr by Peter Heinlein (15something).
> I've never heard of the Taschenuhr. Can anyone tell me more or direct me to
> a source of information?
Taschenuhr -> fob watch.
Peter Heinlein did the first clock small enough to
fit in a pocket. It had the size of a big egg. I don't
remember the exactr year, but I think it was in the
first half of the 16th century.
There are a lot of legendary stories around this device
- inclundig the one that his whife had destroyed the
first one, since she belived that this thing, going
tick-tack must be devils work (remember 16th and 17th
century was a or better _the_ high time of witch hunting
and dark religous belives - Kepler for example had to
defend is mother somewhen in the 1620s agains a triel
of witchhood). So she destroyed his masterpice, and he
let himself imprisson for the next few month in the city
prison, to build a new one without beeing disturbed :)
Building small time devices had an impact to trade
like calculating machines in the early days of this
century. Starting from coach clocks for merchants
who lead their 'empire' from their coaches, until
fob watches. in the 15th/16th century coach clock
was an enormous expensive device - even compared
th the expensiv travling coaces, a coach clock could
cost up to 5 times the coach ! (Like wehn I put a
new Server in my old car :)
Servus
Hans
--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK
Hey gang!
Several times during the past week or ten days I've tried to connect to the
ClassicCmp website http://haliotis.bothell.washington.edu/classiccmp but
never seemed to be up. Always got a message after Netscape timed out
suggesting the web server is either down or not responding. Anybody know
what's happening?
Thanks,
--Chris
-- --
Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian
Jamestown, NY USA
Member of Antique Wireless Association
URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/
I think the attached was directed at me.....and deservingly so.
The HP 2100S is at my offices in Manchester, NH. We're right
across the street from the airport. You could just fly in
pick it up, carry it on (yea sure) and be gone in a flash.
Jon
>At 02:24 PM 6/19/98 -0400, you wrote:
>
> Everything except where it is!
>
>
>> Ooh! Not so fast! Is it straight, helical, worm or hypoid? Or an
>> eliptical gear even? But yes, a gear is easy to rconstruct from its
>> wreckage.
>
> Well, obviously one replaces with the correct type of gear!
>
>> Some cams and levers, though, have quite tight tolerance
>> spikes and notches which it is quite difficult to get right from seeing
>> the bent/broken ones.
>
> Impossible, sometimes. What if a special "hump" on a cam is so worn down
> that one cannot reconstruct its shape? Some of the correct "shape" could
> exist as aluminum powder.
That's what I meant. Tony was saying - and rightly so - that while you
can often see what a failed mechanical part was meant to be like by
studying the failed component, and can then cut a new gear (the
assumption was the gear isn't a standard part) / lever / cam or
whatever, you can't possibly tell what a dead chip was meant to do just
by looking at it. Likewise you can't tell what the value of that
charred resistor used to be...
I merely pointed out that with some tight tolerance cams and levers, you
have a similar problem - you can't tell by looking. "Difficult" in my
line above was a euphemism for "no hope"
>> Bearing in mind Tony's, Sam's and others' comments on intermittent
>> faults and the like, yes, up to a point. Video is not the only
>> exception, though - other things (e.g. disk drives) can suffer
>> similarly.
>
> No, not disk drives. Sure, some analog circuitry in a drive might go sour,
> but those faults would result in bad data. With a working drive, you want
> correct data, and if you do not get it, something is wrong. There is no
> tolerance. With an analog system, you have to expect that the output data
> will not be perfect. For example (also a magnetic recording medium),
> playing back a signal will never be the same as what was recorded, due to
> noise and distortion.
True, every word. But if you draw the distinction there - digital vs.
analogue circuitry - the comment to which I was replying deserves your
reply as well. The previous poster (wasn't you, William, was it?) drew
the distinction at a higher level, and said something like "a digital
_machine_ either works or it doesn't. Apart from video, the results are
either right or wrong. With analogue/mechanical, things can be slightly
out but the machine will go on working" Video is another analogue
subsystem in a digital machine, just like a disk drive, and all that
that implies...
BTW, video may not make the change from digital to analogue until
actually in the monitor, but the same applies - that which you see on
the display is (at the digital level) either right or wrong. It is only
when you get to the analogue bit that it is merely fuzzy.
Philip.
I've got this Hewlett Packard Controller 362 and have no need for it.
Anyone want it for the price of $5+shipping?
It's about the size of a "pizza box" workstation, heck, I think it is a
workstation. Boots up to something unix-like, has built-in VGA, 2mb memory,
and a slot on the front for a 3.5" 1.44mb floppy drive, which I needed to
scavenge for another machine.
It weighs about 15 lbs. and I live in North Carolina, so shipping might be
between $10-$15 depending on where you live.
Features:
HP-IB
Keyboard connector, RJ-45?
RS-232
Parallel
HP-IB 98624A Card installed in the back, apart from the built-in HP-IB.
Powe button on the front.
I couldn't test it out too thoroughly, I did have a monitor to boot it up
with, but no keyboard. Oh, and there's no HD inside the unit. I guess it
takes an external HP-IB drive.
If anyone wants it, first private response gets it.
-
- john higginbotham ____________________________
- webmaster www.pntprinting.com -
- limbo limbo.netpath.net -
for compact mac goodies, check out www.eden.com/~arena/jagshouse
i believe therewas some older system software there as well as some
interesting programs. be sure to get and run despair.sit; its the best one.
lol.
david
Hi there...
> If you still have the 40mb drive, set it for an ID other than 0 and
> connect it also. Then simply drag the system folder from the 40 to the
> new one. This assumes that the 40 had 7.5.x, of course.
>
> - don
Don, Which is 7.5.1 in the 40M HDD... But, if there has any way for me to
get a 7.5.3 diskette version?? 7.0 is just.... Umm....
Yours,
Ken Yaksa
>> P.S.: The first calculatin machine might be the one of
>> Wilhelm Schickard from 1623.
> Johann Kepler tried to build some kind of calculator too I think.
I never heard of it, but maybe he thought about some
machine in his time as Imperial Mathematician in Prag
(1601..1612 - nice history on
http://www.kepler.arc.nasa.gov/johannes.html
) - but afaik the idea of calculating machines
did recive more attention (althrough more seen
as scince fiction) after the invention of the
Taschenuhr by Peter Heinlein (15something).
Gruss
H.
--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK
