Yes, I have returned. Lord Almighty, what a haul!! I can say with
confidence that I definitely tested the maximum load specs for the (rented)
Ford Windstar minivan. Every time I went over a good bump, the rear springs
-almost- bottomed out.
I'll be updating my web page soon with the gory details. Suffice to say
I've got more than enough to keep me going, project-wise, well into next
year. Among the more 'classic' items in the haul were a Kennedy 9100 tape
drive installed in a nice 5-foot DEC rack, and a box full of 9-track tapes
containing mostly DECUS RT-11 SIG libraries.
Tony, I know you'll get a kick out of this. I also got hold of another
11/44 CPU box, loaded with cards (including a Unibus UDA50 disk
controller). Between that one and my current unit, I should be able to get
the power supply going AND fix the broken one for a spare!
Since I'm not heavily into RT-11 (yet), I'd like to offer the RT-11 SIG
tapes to whoever's interested and willing to pay shipping. There's about
six or so, maybe a couple more.
And would you believe I'm already planning next year's run?
I know I'll see at least some of you at VCF in another couple of months.
Until then...
Banzai! ;-)
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272)
(Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin(a)jps.net)
"Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own
human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..."
< Alright for some :-). Alas most of us don't have access to a clean room.
< Even if I was working at a place which had one, I can't believe they'd be
< too happy if I wandered in with an HDA and started stripping it.
Majorly true.
I worked in pharmaceuticals and though they didn't use super clean rooms
(class 10,000 worst case) the equipment was under a laminar airflow curtain
with a flow of 100 linear feet per minute and the air under there was class
100. The air flow was obvious ly of the the machine then into the room
where super clean was less important.
< I would have thought looking for backscattered light would be more
< sensitive and easier to set up. Still not sensitive enough for a clean
< box, of course (in this form).
The air flow and the sensing area cross section are important. Using a
light source like a laser is helpful in getting the backscatter brighter.
This is the problem of how many Angeles can dance on the end of a pin.
You build a clean box and use a good HEPA filter. With 100-200cfm of
incomming clean air once the dust in the box has been blown out it will be
clean especially if gloved hands are the only thing inside.
I'e heard a lot of "good luck", "it will not last" and "too dirty" from
those that haven't. I've done it, when RD53s and 54s were in desperately
short supply here and it does work without the clean box with some care.
Obvious tricks like wearing nylon gloves to avoid finger prints, a canister
of dry air to blow things off and keeping the unit covered when possible
all reduce risk.
Allison
< I'm not sure what that means, but I assume that the servo surface
< contains a sort of coordinate system that the servo head reads and thus
< guides the other heads. If that assumption is correct, why isn't it
< possible to realign the thing with another servo platter?
First it depends if the servo is embedded or dedicated platter or stepper
(or other absolute positioner).
For dedicated platter one head is assigned as the servo head and since they
are all mechanically one assembly the rest just follow along. Now if a
platter is changed it's data may be offset relative to the others. Same
thing is true for replacing a head as the RELATIVE alignment between heads
is disturbed. This case I believer the disk can be low level formatted
and reused but existant data may be lost. If servo information does not
exist (DeMIL'd drive) it's likely good for parts as servo tracks are hard
to regenerate.
If it's embedded servo per head each head as selected will follow the
selected track servo signals and making relative head alignment less
critical. If the servo is blown there is no way to regenerate easily.
For cases of absolute positioners like older ST506/412/225/251 (and a swarm
of others) drives getting alignment to cylinder 000 and beteeen heads would
be critical for complete data recovery. If the drive is to be reformatted
however a bulk erase and reformat will establish new tracks in some cases
and make a mess in others.
In the case of removable pack drives that is a totally different can of
worms though simpler as they so have alignment procedures for field or
depot use.
Allison
At 22:25 14-07-98 -0500, you wrote:
>I'm planning to be in Europe for a week or so in October (a few days each
>in Holland, Belgium, and Germany). I'd like to sneak in a few nerd-stops
>along the way, and I'll make room in my suitcase for a couple of vintage
>portables just in case. Any suggestions for the American nerd tourist in
>Europe?
>
Doug, if you indeed do go to Munich to see the Deutches Museum I suggest
you set aside at least a _full_ day to see only a couple of sections or
several days to see most of the museum. Roller skates or rollerblades would
be of great help to see more in less time<g>
I'm the type of person who studies a museum and have spent two to four
hours in each of the few sections I've visited during the three different
visits to the Deutches Museum. As Hans just said in a previous msg in this
thread, the computer section is indeed about 12,000 square feet. Loved it!
Seriously, I do recommend seeing the collections at Deutches Museum to
anybody who may visit Munich. Something for everybody. Check out URL:
http://www.deutsches-museum.de/dme01.htm if you're interested.
Have fun in Europe,
--Chris
-- --
Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian
Jamestown, NY USA
Member of Antique Wireless Association
URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/
Yes, dual head positioners on both sides plus four twenty pin
connectors on both sides as well.
David is correct as well, I have confirmed this HDA is from an IBM
4381 mainframe and uses a 3880 controller. Does this HDA have a
lineage that goes back to the IBM Ramac? Any idea when this HDA was
introduced? It certainly will make a great paper weight.
Marty
______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________
Subject: Re: IBM 3380 HDA
Author: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu at internet
Date: 7/15/98 11:07 AM
At 10:59 15-07-98 -0400, you wrote:
> I just acquired an IBM 3380 HDA which weighs 70 lbs, and is in a clear
> plastic case. Does anybody know the lineage of this? The HDA has IBM
> 390X-001 as well as 13-E8719-CJ printed on a label.
Good Lord... unless I miss my guess, that's from a System/390 mainframe!
Let me guess... dual head positioners on either side, yes? And big
connectors with about a zillion pins?
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272)
(Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin(a)jps.net)
"Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own
human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..."
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From: Bruce Lane <kyrrin(a)jps.net>
To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers"
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: IBM 3380 HDA
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> On Tue, 14 Jul 1998, Thomas Pfaff wrote:
>> Does anyone have a MAD Computer? It was just another boring peecee
>> but I liked the name of the computer. I believe it was the fastest
>> computer you could buy for some small amount of time- an early 80386
>> PC running at a whopping 16 mhz.
> I e-bumped into a guy who knows *all* about MAD. I've captured some of
> his knowledge for posterity:
> http://www.yowza.com/classiccmp/mad/
Thanks Doug.
Now I know - I have to have a MAD1 - I _must_ have any 80186/88
system ever build - just a obsession - maybe because I like
the PC-D a lot .)
Gruss
H.
--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK
A short refresher on human psychology. Most of the time, a clearly
thinking person does not do anything they consider wrong. Your spammer
thinks he is doing someone a favor, and your songs are disrespectful
teasing of his honest attempt to make money. Lawsuits are more effective
because if he continues to do it, he'll lose all the money he made,
maybe even go to jail.
That said, keep up the good work :)
>> Lawsuits appear to be the only effective weapon so far.
>
>I hope that 937 spam songs (at last count this morning) will bring some
>manner of cheap and effective restitution.
>
>
>Sam Alternate e-mail:
dastar(a)siconic.com
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Ever onward.
>
> September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2
> See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
> [Last web page update: 07/05/98]
>
>
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
> I've been hit many times by the same bozos. They almost always use
> unsuspecting sites as spam relays, so I've been notifying these sites and
> trying to shutdown the relays.
> I love the spaminator idea, but isn't your phone bill going to be pretty
> high this month? Also, the way spammers retaliate against retaliators is
> to include your email address as the return address in their forged
> headers, so you get mail-bombed by naive spam haters.
> Lawsuits appear to be the only effective weapon so far.
Thats one thing I realy like about the German laws - spamming
via any kind of personal device is forbidden - no fax-spam,
no telex spam and no e-mail spam. Spaming is considered stealing
your property, since the spammer uses your fax paper and your
power line to print his message, and/or your time to check
and delete spam. And theft is just unlawful :)
After just 4 or 5 court ruleings spamming _IN_ Germany is
almost zero - we just have SPAM from outside the country
like senseless US-Spamm :)
Gruss
H.
--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK
Here in the US, we're spammed by the government, too. Though I'm under
18 and not a US citizen besides, I've gotten at least 30 requests for
jury duty. BTW, what is the earliest incidence of e-mail spam?
>After just 4 or 5 court ruleings spamming _IN_ Germany is
>almost zero - we just have SPAM from outside the country
>like senseless US-Spamm :)
>
>Gruss
>H.
>
>--
>Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
>HRK
>
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
In a message dated 98-07-15 10:58:12 EDT, you write:
<< I just acquired an IBM 3380 HDA which weighs 70 lbs, and is in a clear
plastic case. Does anybody know the lineage of this? The HDA has IBM
390X-001 as well as 13-E8719-CJ printed on a label.
>>
hmmm, i remember seeing 3380/3880 dasd units back in 1992 when i was a
computer operator running an IBM 4381 and later an ES9000. kinda useless for a
pc although fascinating to look at. belt drive and everything!
david
Speaking of TELEX, they once had the tan-colored 286 boxes, pretty
small, with only a 3.5" fdd and a hardcard. They had a BNC connector
emanating from the motherboard. Does anyone know what that was for? If
it's a network card, does anyone know about drivers?
>I once had one of these nasty little beasties. In fact, it was
>a rare version that was badged for TELEX/Memorex. It used an
>80186 CPU-- It was fast, at least to me, anyway (although
>I don't recall the clock speed).
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Clearly a very innovative company. It would be nice if all PC clone
manufacturers added a little of their own abilities (well, perhaps not
:) to their computers.
> http://www.yowza.com/classiccmp/mad/
>
>-- Doug
>
>
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
OK, easy on that anti-MS stuff. Kai might be reading :) Anyway, Scandisk
is useful for erasing lost files which is all I use it for. Does anyone
have an old copy of Spinrite or know of a place where I could get it?
How much does the latest one go for?
>I truely hate the brain-damaged program
>ScanDisk as nothing more than a Trojan Horse! Microsoft should have
>known better than to put out something like that. I have *never* had a
>problem with Spinrite although that probably includes only a few
hundred
>drives I have worked on.
>
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>A friend has an RP06, an alignment pack, and the alignment tool, but
>lacks the instructions to do the deed.
>Anyone got the manual that describes the procedure, or know how?
Have your friend contact me off-line at work... I may have some RP06
manuals in my collection. Maybe one of them is a maintenance guide
which explains it...
Megan Gentry
Former RT-11 Developer
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry(a)zk3.dec.com |
| Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg(a)world.std.com |
| Digital Equipment Corporation | |
| 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ |
| Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler |
| (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg |
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
Spinrite is most famous for low-level formatting, which is only allowed
on old MFM drives, most IDE drives have a sticker that says "Do not
low-level format this drive". When I used a Model D with a hardcard, I
loved this program. I ran it twice a day because I had nothing else to
do :)
As for bad sectors, what's up with that? Why is it that sometimes a bad
sector will be marked bad, then I can format a drive and have it use
those 'bad sectors' just fine?
>
> well, I personally have never opened up a hard drive, if nothing
else
>because I've never had an extra to pop open (i'm too frugal. hehe.)
>
> Regardless, I have found the program "Spinrite" to work great on
IDE
>drives; it goes through and can fix bad sectors, or mark them totally
>unusable. this really differs from standard formats/etc, because I've
been
>able to take drives w/ 30mb of bad sectors and get it to 0 bad sectors,
and
>still running fine w/ no problems after a year. i believe they are on
>version 5, i got version 4 for about 20 bucks. This is kind of
off-topic and
>doesn't cover a whole lot of you out there, but when you buy a box of
100
>drives that are all "bad", you can sometimes salvage quite a few of
them.
>
>
>-Eric
>
>
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
I once had one of these nasty little beasties. In fact, it was
a rare version that was badged for TELEX/Memorex. It used an
80186 CPU-- It was fast, at least to me, anyway (although
I don't recall the clock speed).
The Powersupply and floppy drives were in one unit, and the CPU
was in another. It had a CGA compatible display adaptor. It also
had what appeared to be an ISA bus, but most stock PeeCee cards
would cause problems.
I hacked this one by adding an 8-bit Hard disk controller, and
disabling the HDC bios ROM. There was support for the HDC in
the MAD-186 ROM, but the harddisk was not a standard option
(AFAIK).
I think this is the only computer I ever destroyed on purpose, and
out of spite, no less. When we bought our 1st '286, my wife urged
me to give the MAD to her brother. I really should have resisted,
because the thing became a support nightmare. "Can I put a joystick
on this?" "Uhh, whats an 'ERROR TRAP'?" "Uhh, RatRacer keeps locking
up, can you fix this?"
The computer got passed around the family, and I finally ended up
with it about three years ago, when it was summarily smashed into
little pieces-- retribution for countless sleepless nights when I had
to play 'Tech Support'. I had been driven to the edge of MADness.
Needless to say I wasn't into CLASSICS yet. I DID save the part with the
PS and flopy disk drives, though . . .
Jeff
At 11:29 PM 7/14/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Does anyone have a MAD Computer? It was just another boring peecee
>but I liked the name of the computer. I believe it was the fastest
>computer you could buy for some small amount of time- an early 80386
>PC running at a whopping 16 mhz.
>
>Just curious... I just like the concept...
>Perhaps they should have used the slogan...
>
>"Everyone should have a MAD computer in their home!"
>
>Or perhaps not...
>
>Thomas
>
> From: ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk [mailto:ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk]
> Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 1998 2:14 PM
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
> Subject: Re: How many computers?
>
>
> >
> > Actually, there is a little known difference on the power
> supply board
> > between a beige Mac plus and a Platinum Mac Plus. Just a
> diode but boy
>
> Were they both Capetronics designs? The one in my Mac+ (is
> there an easy
> way to tell them apart when it's been dicoloured by sunlight...) is.
>
> Where is the diode connected between, and which version has it?
>
I really dont remember where it is. This was back in 1988 or so :)
Tony
I just acquired an IBM 3380 HDA which weighs 70 lbs, and is in a clear
plastic case. Does anybody know the lineage of this? The HDA has IBM
390X-001 as well as 13-E8719-CJ printed on a label.
Thanks,
Marty
Does anyone have a MAD Computer? It was just another boring peecee
but I liked the name of the computer. I believe it was the fastest
computer you could buy for some small amount of time- an early 80386
PC running at a whopping 16 mhz.
Just curious... I just like the concept...
Perhaps they should have used the slogan...
"Everyone should have a MAD computer in their home!"
Or perhaps not...
Thomas
> I'm planning to be in Europe for a week or so in October (a few days each
> in Holland, Belgium, and Germany). I'd like to sneak in a few nerd-stops
> along the way, and I'll make room in my suitcase for a couple of vintage
> portables just in case. Any suggestions for the American nerd tourist in
> Europe?
Hmm, couldn't you be a bit more specific ? A few days in Germany
is like saying 'visiting Alaska and BC and maybe some days on the
West Coast' ... Oh Boy, Germany is more than 700 miles 'high' and
up to 500 'wide' (nowadays:).
Ok, for historic nerds there are at least 3 main places:
- Museum fur Verkehr und Technik in Berlin - here you can find
(beside a small display) a _complete_ replica of the Zuse Z1
computer - the first computer - and all mechanical :)
- The Heinz Nixdorf Museum in Paderborn (a small city middle
of nowhere) - They have a real comprehensive display. The
single largest in Germany. A lot of small systems from the
70's - Of course since this museum started out as a company
nuseum of Nixdorf.
- The Deutsches Museum in Munich - THE science museum - I think
#1 worldwide - the only thing coming close anyhwere might
be the Smithonian Collections. A museum about almost anything.
Also including a small Computer display - some 12,000 sqft.
They have things like Zuse Z3 replika, Z22, Siemens 2002,
PERM, IBM 360/20, TR4, Mark 1...realy impressiv. Althrough I
think the modern part is a bit .. hmm .. lets say more like
a junk yard - only a PC and a PET hidden in a sidecase and
other random parts ... :(
- They (the Deutsches Museum) opened a subsidary in Bonn some
time ago (Kohl wanted to have such things in hs 'capitol'
city :) - But this museum is nice, and well done, but more
political/modern historical orientated - only 3 pices are
special computer orientated: parts of a Z23 computer (afair
the drum), some boxes of the SUPRENUM Project, and a 1 meg
chip from VEB Forschungszentrum Mikroelektronik Dresden -
the last East German high tech product - they almost ruined
their industry - any research money available and a lot more
was spend for this development.
Beside these, maybe the RWTH in Aaachen (Aachen university)
could be an interesting place - they have a small display
of big old stuff ...
Aachen, Bonn and Paderborn might be close enough to the
westen border (Begique/Holland). Oh yes, and maybe send
Stefan Walgenbach <walgen(a)do.isst.fhg.de> a mail - he is
building the HCM (Home Computer Museum) in Oberhausen,
thats just 60km east of the Dutch border. Maybe he invites
you to see his collection of classic 80's small and home-
computers - he has a big heap of european (English, French
and German) home computers.
Some hints about your planned tour would help.
And if you come to Munich (Deutsches Museum) I would be
glad to show you the museum, the city and bragg with
my collection :)
Servus
H.
--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK
DEC actually tried something like that in the late 70's, they had an
option for some kind of designer pattern painted on small racks going
into office environments. I think it only lasted a few months, but I do
remember getting the brochures from DEC (company was an OEM from DEC at
the time). Response was underwhelming. Personally, if it isn't beige
or blue I don't consider it a "real" computer. When DEC went to the
black racks and purple lettering (hmm, early 70s?) that was too radical
for me, I was glad to see a return to the traditional beige rack.
DEC did have a nice desk with a builtin short rack, it was sold with
PDP-8s used for small business office applications. It looked like a
regular desk, but the left side was actually a 19" wide rack. It held a
BA-11 and a dual 8" floppy box. For our customers that was more popular
than the "designer" panels.
Jack Peacock
-----Original Message-----
From: Tom Owad [mailto:tomowad@earthlink.net]
Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 1998 9:19 AM
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
Subject: Re: Painting Macs (was: fake NeXT)
>I have this weird idea that one day custom paint jobs on computers
might
>make me some extra money. Am I crazy? Do you think there would ever be
a
>market for it?
< I love the spaminator idea, but isn't your phone bill going to be pretty
<
< Lawsuits appear to be the only effective weapon so far.
<
Sam,
If traced back to you, the action you've taken is covered by law so you
could be at risk.
I agree that bunch is a problem as are the earthlink sex girls that are
apparently not anywhere from earthlink.
Allison
< Now, my question. Let's say a single head crashes. This would raise up
< some dust off the platter, right? Would it be possible to recover the
< material that wasn't destroyed by the dragging head? What if this
< deformed the platter?
Head crashes are always bad. What generally happens for 5" and 3.5" winis
is the head is ripped off the mount, slammed against the wall and shattered.
the free arm gouges the platter badly. the metal dust from the grinding
gets into the rest of the heads and it cascades. If shut down when the head
first goes the platter will be shot. Repair would be trying to get head
and arm assembly, another drive to get a good platter from. Then there
is the problem of disassembleing the platter drive assy as many are "glued
and screwed" and maintaining tolerances on assembly.
Allison
< >a third-party dual width card with light blue ejector handles with
< >"UDC11" stamped in white letters on one. Don't know where the ribbon
< >cable goes that's connected to it. I'll take the BA11 chassis out and
< >peek inside tonight and report what I find on these questions.
My guess the tape is not tu58 but a DC100/300/600 series tape. There
wasn't a tu58 that mounted to a 5.25hole unless it was a hack. Also
TU58 is easy to recognize as the drives are bare (no electornics) and the
use a board that is roughly 5x10" with serial interface to the host.
Also TU58 was a dual drive system though it could be configured with only
one.
Allison
< Interesting peripherals from late 1970's when I was going a lot.
< 1. SWTP CT-1024 modified for 64 columns and graphics. Hope to get this
< working again with some computer.
I have one of those operation with the same mod!
All of my collection I listed are tested operational systems. The unique
boards I've built for my own use are not listed nor are some of the inop
stuff salvaged for parts. I also didn't list the parts supply as that
would need a T1 link to get though reasonably. I have a lot of OLD parts
that were new purchase at one time! ;)
Allison