test-drb

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101090 discussions

by franke＠sbs.de

> TRS80 model II with 3 physically huge 8 meg HDDs 8 meg ? not five ? Whats the type and manufacturer ? Do you have an online picture ? > Phillips Micom 2000 dedicated WP with an 8" Shugart > and a Qume daisy wheel printer that has a power supply big enough > to power a small villiage. Same here: Any picture for the Micom 2000 available ? Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

27 years, 11 months

Places to visit in Silicon Valley?

by franke＠sbs.de

> Kai Kaltenbach wrote: >>[...] > Is this the same Kai that the "power goo" software was/is created by? Haven't > seen the name in here before and guessing he's a recent signon? (I may just be > on a drug flashback and imagining all of this) I think you are talking about Kai Krause - he is already living somehere in California :) Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

27 years, 11 months

Re-compiling old DOS

by franke＠sbs.de

> Anyway, this plus a message from one of our own, results in an > interesting question. How, in 1982 (or in 1980-81, when Project Acorn was in > beta), would Microsoft have written and compiled DOS 1? 86-DOS (the base of MS-DOS 1.0) at least was developed on a DEC 2020 station and transfered via serial line to an INTEL ISIS system for writing Disks, or to the SCP 8086 S100 system for runntime tests. Gruss h. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

27 years, 11 months

Re-compiling old DOS

by rcini＠email.msn.com

One of my recent time sink-hole projects is de-compiling DOS 1.1. I figure that I needed a computing challenge :) Anyway, this plus a message from one of our own, results in an interesting question. How, in 1982 (or in 1980-81, when Project Acorn was in beta), would Microsoft have written and compiled DOS 1? I know that DOS as we know it was purchased from Tim Patterson of Seattle Computing Products (Is this the right name? I don't have a copy of one of my many Gates books handy.), so the source code in printed, magnetic, or paper tape form would have existed. Would they have used a PC simulator running on another computer (the same way they wrote BASIC for the Altair)? Would they have waited to receive a beta unit to test/develop it live after months of writing blind code based on IBM's specifications documents? Anyway, I digress. I've pretty much finished the boot sector code, and IBMBIO is done. So, now I'm working on IBMDOS. Does anyone know anything about how early DOS versions loaded? Looking at the DOS1 code and comparing it to DOS6 code, it seems like the DOS1 boot sector loads both BIO and DOS back-to-back in memory (producing a single image, if you will), and then jumps to BIO. DOS6, in comparison, the boot sector loads IO, which then loads DOS. Any thoughts? I felt this qualifies as "classic" since the file dates are May 7, 1982 <g> Rich Cini/WUGNET <nospam_rcini(a)msn.com> - ClubWin! Charter Member - MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking - Preserver of "classic" computers <<<< ========== reply separator ========== >>>>>

27 years, 11 months

Re-compiling old DOS

by jfoust＠threedee.com

At this point in CP/M and DOS development, it was common to use an automated translation tool to convert 8080 and Z-80 assembler to 8088 code. I believe this was used on early DOS, too. I remember seeing the "signature" of this in disassemblies by the way something was done less than efficiently. - John

27 years, 11 months

Off-topic informational anti-spam anecdotal

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< Ok, so given that there are people out there who know about phone < systems, how would I build a device that sat on the phone line and could < detect whether the line was in use or not - it's extremely annoying when < you have a modem and voice phone on the same line and your voice call < gets interrupted by a burst of modem noise! :) for this the US and euro systems are sufficiently the same. < < btw, this is for a UK system - I've seen curcuits to do exactly this < job, but they never say whose phone systems their designed for, and I'd < imagine that US and UK systems work with different setups.... the only thing you need to do is detect if the line voltage is above or below some level. that point is best set mid way between battery off hook and battery on hook (easily measured). The only other need is to do it such that you do not load the line(or you look like your off hook) and can withstand the ring without failing the circuit. Likely the circuits you've sen will do that. Allison

27 years, 11 months

Re-compiling old DOS

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< I would _guess_ that MS-DOS was written and assembled on a CP/M system of < some sort, until it was self-hosting. Although, it's also quite possible < that MS-DOS was assembled on a QDOS system, since that's basically what < it was :) it could have been done under intel ISIS using the MDS-311 package or IRMX-80 or IRMX-86 along with ICE pods. the 8088/86 was a already a mature product by time IBM started the PC and there wre at least three second sources. Also 8086 development tools from Intel, AMD and HP to name a few were available. So developing 808x code was not a problem. I know that as we built a system using 8088 at 8mhz to play with the 7220 GDC which was the hottest thing for graphics on one chip for before the PC would escape into the world. Allison

27 years, 11 months

VC404 The Standard

by CharlesII＠nwonline.net

CL>> -tony CL>> CL> Well, it looks like I'm going to have to read up on terminals. I really kno CL>little about them. It has baud rate settings on the back 300 - 19.2 . I'm CL>surprised at the speed. I would have thought 2400 or at most 9600. CL> Thanks for the help. CL>ciao larry CL>lwalker(a)interlog.com The baud speed really isn't that surprising since 19.2 is the speed of the Atari SIO.

27 years, 11 months

Off-topic informational anti-spam anecdotal

by franke＠sbs.de

> The voltages must remain the same in order to be compatible with old > equipment per government regulations. Believe it or not there are still > many people out there with old (ancient) rotary dial telephones. a) Don't forget about these pseudo modern phones - keys, but still emiting pulse scemes. b) I had, until I switched to ISDN, still a 1927 Telephone in every day use. Worked fine, even with the latest (analogue) exchange :) - Noy I connect it via an a/b adaptor. Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

27 years, 11 months

Robot books, was How many computers?

by ddameron＠earthlink.net

At 09:40 PM 7/16/98 +0100, Tony wrote: >> Has anyone built any of David Heiserman's robots? He's written several robot >> construction books. Some with hardwired logic, some with microcomputers. > >I don't think I've come across these - can you provided titles, etc, please > He wrote many, I think about all for TAB books, now part of McGraw Hill. 'Build your own working Robot', 1976. TTL, sorry my copy has been borrowed and lost. Must still be much easier to find, at least in the U.S. than "We Built our own Computers" 'How to build your own self-programming Robot', 1979. Used a 8085. Has a convoluted final algorithm (to me) to determine responses. 'How to build your own working Robot, the second Generation', 1987. Still TTL, about 30 ic's, 4 bits input (bumpers), 4 bits output (2 drive motors). Other's I haven't seen are '101 Programming Surprises and Tricks for the IBM PC'. Of course today there are all sorts of robots with PIC microcontrollers, etc. -Dave

27 years, 11 months

Re-compiling old DOS

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< running on another computer (the same way they wrote BASIC for the Altair) < Would they have waited to receive a beta unit to test/develop it live afte < months of writing blind code based on IBM's specifications documents? Likely they used a intel MDS800 running asm86 or PLM86. They could run on intel ISB86 systems (multibus 8086 based). the 8086 was introdued in '78 and available in '79 so hardware was not a problem. Heck they could ahve used a Seattle Computers S100 8086 crate. < it to DOS6 code, it seems like the DOS1 boot sector loads both BIO and DO < back-to-back in memory (producing a single image, if you will), and then < jumps to BIO. DOS6, in comparison, the boot sector loads IO, which then < loads DOS. < < Any thoughts? I felt this qualifies as "classic" since the file dates < are May 7, 1982 <g> The monolithic load is an artifact of the CP/m heritage in general and specifically CP/M1.4. It's effect was to make loading drivers difficult. That resulted in later version loading the IO which is more extensable and then using the io to load the DOS. I may add that CP/M2.x put more of the burden in the bios and also seperated the load preocess more. Parallel development. Allison

27 years, 11 months

Off-topic informational anti-spam anecdotal

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Well, then why don't the other phones sound out the data string with the ringers? >Wrong. > >Caller id senses the ring and does not go off hook as that would disturb >the CO and it is uneeded. Instead the ring is an alert to the caller ID >that data will follow and it's already camped on the line using a non-DC >(capacitor coupled) connection to avoid loading the line. this allows >it to hear the ring and the data. > >Allison > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 11 months

book "We Built our own Computers"

by ddameron＠earthlink.net

Hi all, At 11:09 PM 7/16/98 +1000, Phil wrote: >-----Original Message----- >From: dave dameron <ddameron(a)earthlink.net> >>Speaking of books, >>has anyone seen the book "We Built our own Computers" by A.B. Bolt, >>Cambridge Univ. Press, published about 1966. ^^ > >Yes, I've got it here (bought as part of a $3 per bag haul from a charity >book sale a month ago). ... >I see a few other replies, so that it is not all that rare :( >- but what exactly did you want to know for? > OK, Thanks, One of my collection interests is for computer construction books and articles. This book was mentioned in another article without any details. If copies are floating around, I might find one yet. -Dave

27 years, 11 months

How many computers?

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Has anyone built any of these? Does anyone have any extra copies? >Indeed it is. 1966 IIRC Are any still in publication or recently gone out of? >I don't think I've come across these - can you provided titles, etc, please ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 11 months

Developing my Web site

by rcini＠email.msn.com

Hello, all: I thought that I'd share with you that I'm beginning my own classic computing web site. I was fortunate enough to find a gentleman in Vancouver who will sponsoring this effort. His particular interest is in PDP equipment. Right now, he hosts a PDP8 document archive. The first thing to be posted will be scans of the printsets that I recently got. I'd also like to reproduce the hardware user manuals that I own (which are on the order of 2 or 3 copy paper boxes worth). I also intend to post the Altair scans that I've been holding, server space allowing, of course. I'll take some time, but when it's up, I'll solicit document donations. More to come... Rich Cini/WUGNET <nospam_rcini(a)msn.com> - ClubWin! Charter Member - MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking - Preserver of "classic" computers <<<< ========== reply separator ========== >>>>>

27 years, 11 months

Off-topic informational anti-spam anecdotal

by Philip.Belben＠powertech.co.uk

> When a phone is on-hook (hung-up) there is a 48V potential on the line. > When the phone is ringing, there is 90v (nominal) AC on the line during > the ring cycle to activate the ringer. When a phone is off-hook (you're > talking) there is 12v on the line. I think the 48V on hook and 12V off hook is historical - in the days of long copper wires back to the exchange, it was all done from the 48V battery - 12V was all that was left after voltage drop when the 30mA or so (apparently the carbon microphone needs at least 23mA to work well) had to go the several miles to your house and back. May still be like that, come to think of it. Those on shorter lines had higher resistance phones to compensate. In the 1960s (? What date is the 706 anyway ?), many UK phones had the "line drop compensator" on a plug-in module, presumably so you could swap it for one with different resistors... Philip.

27 years, 11 months

Off-topic informational anti-spam anecdotal

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< > When a phone is on-hook (hung-up) there is a 48V potential on the line. < > When the phone is ringing, there is 90v (nominal) AC on the line during < > the ring cycle to activate the ringer. When a phone is off-hook (you're < > talking) there is 12v on the line. the voltages are wildly approximate. It's current that does the work! On hook is sensed by some current flowing and the threshhold is about 5-10ma may be more. Ring is ac coupled but the voltage is set so the energy level of the ringer is met despite the loop (line) resistance. the only one that was nominal was onhook of ~48v. Allison

27 years, 11 months

Denver sources?

by dougdu＠MICROSOFT.com

In Denver try Fistell's Electronics and Crump Electronics and in Boulder try J.B. Saunders. - Doug > -----Original Message----- > From: Uncle Roger [mailto:sinasohn@ricochet.net] > Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 1998 7:53 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Denver sources? > > > My girlfriend and I are hoping to go on holiday at the > beginning of August, > and right now, it looks like Denver/Boulder will be our > destination. So, > does anyone know of any good thrift shops/swapmeets/etc. in the area? > (And, off-topically, antique or teacher stores? Gotta keep > the gf happy > too! 8^) Thanks! > > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > ------- O- > > Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad > roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but > madmen know." > Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates > San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 11 months

How many computers?

by ddameron＠earthlink.net

Hi Tony and all, At 09:28 PM 7/15/98 +0100, you wrote: >> >> [We built out own...] >> >> Oooh! Scan! Scan! > >Well, it's all relay logic, and switches, but it's still fun. > >May I also recomend 'Practical Robot Circuits' from the Philips Technical >Library series. It describes a robot dog built from DF92 etc valves, and >includes schematics. The radio control book in the same series is >interesting as well. > This must be 30 or so years old. Can one still get these from Philips? I didn't find anything on Philip's site. Has anyone built any of David Heiserman's robots? He's written several robot construction books. Some with hardwired logic, some with microcomputers. -Dave

27 years, 11 months

Mac 512 video mods

by PB14＠leicester.ac.uk

Yesterday I acquired two boxes, each about the size of a UK telephone directory, that were described as "AppleTalk to serial convertors". Opening them up reveals a Mac 512 motherboard, a nice Farnell psu, and a homebrew card in place of Apple's analog board. There are a couple of other mods such as the programmer and reset switches mounted on the front panel, small speaker mounted inside the case, no internal floppy, keyboard extender. The Mac board in box #1 appears to be completely standard. The homebrew board contains 2 * SN74LS221N and 1 * 74LS256N with a lead joining it to a composite connector. Does anybody have any idea what the video output might be for? I understand that there were a number of homebrew video mods of this type published in Mac magazines in the mid 80's. The Mac board in box #2 appears to be slightly non standard. At the location F3 the original SN74F253N has been piggy backed with a 7F153PC (I think). There are also a few connections to the chip at location F2 and to a factory solder pad on the motherboard. The homebrew board looks similar to that in box #1 but is better made and clearly hand labelled "composite video". Which size floppy drive should these boards support? The ROM HI is Apple # 342-022 and ROM LO is # 342-0221. Any thoughts, Phil ************************************************************** Phil Beesley -- Computer Officer -- Distributed Systems Suppport University of Leicester Tel (0)116 252-2231 E-Mail pb14(a)le.ac.uk

27 years, 11 months

DEC Stuff FS in Switzerland

by lwalker＠mail.interlog.com

Spotted this in the DEC newsgroup. For our euro friends. DO NOT REPLY TO ME - REPLY TO ORIGINAL POSTER From: Peter Mueri <MPe(a)pop.agri.ch> Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec.micro Subject: FS DEC material Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 20:14:18 +0000 Organization: 64 Bit Linux/AXP forever! For Sale 1 Vaxmate Computer with HD Box sFr. 100 1 DEC uVAX 2000 sFr. 200 1 DEC uVAX 2000 4MB Memory Board sFr. 20 1 DEC VaxStation2000 RD54 RGB-19" sFr. 400 1 DEC Monitor 19" B/W VR100 55kHz sFr. 30 1 PDP-11/70 Plessey Core Memory sFr. 10 1 Rainbow Computer with DOS and CP/M and table sFr. 100 1 DEC VT100 sFr. 20 1 DEC VT240 Console sFr. 20 various DEC MFM HDs Prices are pick/up prices in Switzerland. Willing to trade-in McIntosh CPUs. Peter lwalker(a)interlog.com

27 years, 11 months

taking care of bad sectors... easy stuff. Was: Re: hard

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< OK, easy on that anti-MS stuff. Kai might be reading :) Anyway, Scandisk < is useful for erasing lost files which is all I use it for. Does anyone First of all MS didn't write scandisk... anyone that uses norton tools should recognize it. it a stripped vendor version the norton tool. I have had excellent success with norton tools and still used copies I've had for over 8years. Allison

27 years, 11 months

IBM 3380 HDA

by Philip.Belben＠powertech.co.uk

> In a message dated 98-07-15 10:58:12 EDT, you write: > > << I just acquired an IBM 3380 HDA which weighs 70 lbs, and is in a clear > plastic case. Does anybody know the lineage of this? The HDA has IBM > 390X-001 as well as 13-E8719-CJ printed on a label. > >> > > hmmm, i remember seeing 3380/3880 dasd units back in 1992 when i was a > computer operator running an IBM 4381 and later an ES9000. kinda useless for a > pc although fascinating to look at. belt drive and everything! 3380s and 3880s were certainly around when I was at IBM in 1985-86, mostly on 308X mainframes. I'll have a look-see if I have any info (probably just marketing bumf as usual). It is the clear plastic case that intrigues me. Do you mean you can see the platters and heads and things? I have a vague memory of the HDs in our system/34 being like that. Nice. I also once saw a later disk model (9330 or something like that?), demo version, which not only had a clear plastic case, but had the platters replaced by discs of clear plastic, too. It didn't power up or anything - strictly for showing tourists when on the factory tour... Philip.

27 years, 11 months

Places to visit in Silicon Valley?

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

Nope, I'm not that Kai, and I'm far from a recent addition to the group, either :) Kai -----Original Message----- From: Russ Blakeman [mailto:rhblake@bbtel.com] Sent: Thursday, July 16, 1998 5:39 AM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Re: Places to visit in Silicon Valley? Kai Kaltenbach wrote: > I'm going to be visiting the silicon valley area and I'd appreciate any tips > on where to look for interesting old computer gear. > > This is a one-time visit so if you're afraid of spreading the word around on > your favorite spots, send me email instead of posting to the list, I won't > tell anyone your secrets, I swear! Is this the same Kai that the "power goo" software was/is created by? Haven't seen the name in here before and guessing he's a recent signon? (I may just be on a drug flashback and imagining all of this) -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake(a)bbtel.com or rhblake(a)bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* --------------------------------------------------------------------

27 years, 11 months

How many computers?

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Jul 16, 1:50, Tony Duell wrote: > Subject: Re: How many computers? > > >That sounds like a Torch Graduate machine. An MS-DOS copro for the BBC=20 > > >micro. I have one, but alas I'm missing the host ROM and systems disk = > > for=20 > > >it :-(. > > I dont thing it needs a rom in the BBC , I have the system disks If > > I am suprised. I guess it works with the standard Tube host routines. > Odd, as it doesn't (IIRC) contain a Tube ULA. Or does it use the same > host ROM as the Z80 copro (those I have). > > Does anyone know for certain? I'd not want to waste your time if there > are other bits I need. I'm sure it doesn't use the standard Tube routines; in face most Torch devices play merry hell with Acorn's Tube code, which tends to see that something is there but can't deal with it. I suspect it used the same ROM as the Z80. A colleague used to have a Graduate, so I'll ask him today. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

27 years, 11 months

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