Sam:
could you please tell me what isbn number and the publisher was on the
"Computer power for small business" book though I could try and track it
down in some used book syores around here.
thanx
Chris
At 10:25 AM 06/02/98 -0800, you wrote:
>
>I added another 37 volumes to my vintage computer library yesterday.
>
>By far the most valuable from a historical standpoint is the book
>_Computer Power for the Small Business_ from 1979. It is a buyer's guide
>for microcomputers of the mid- to late -0's era. Talk about a treasure.
>This book has pictures and decriptions of many computers I've never even
>heard of.
>
>It contains information on systems we know much of, such as the Atari's,
>Apple, PETs, Radio Shack, etc. But it also has blurbs on systems that
>I've not seen mentioned anywhere else (at least not in a way that is
>looking back on these systems with a historical perspective) like the RCA
>Cosmac VIP, the Sol-20, Exidy Sorcerer, Heathkit H-8 and H-11, Intecolor
>8031.
>
>The best part is the descriptions of systems I've never knew about before.
>Has anyone ever heard of an Outpost computer? Its a fully integrated
>package with keyboard, display and 5.25" drive, but its almost three feet
>wide, with the two 5.25" drive bays to the side of the display! How about
>the PeCos One from APF Electronics. I have a pong machine made by APF but
>who would've thought they once made computers? How about The Renaissance
>Machine (aka Compucolor II)? There's also mention of the Teal SHC-8000,
>which is sort of like a pet with display, keyboard and cassette player in
>one unit.
>
>It then has a listing with about 40 different system descriptions,
>including CPU, memory, external storage, input (ie. keyboard, lightpen),
>output (ie. display, printer) and basic cost. There's also the company
>address which is extremely valuable for research.
>
>Here's an interesting tidbit. Apparently Data General made a line of
>computers dubbed "The Digital Group". According to this entry in the
>table, they were systems based on the Z-80, 8080A, 9080A, 6800 and 6502
>processors; they had 2K of main memory; they used cassettes for storage.
>Can anyone verify this?
>
>I also got another similar book entitled _The Peter McWilliams Personal
>Computer Buying Guide_ circa 1985. I haven't had a chance to go through
>it in much detail but it is basically more nice descriptions of early- to
>mid-80's computers, again some of which I've never heard of. I'll do a
>review later.
>
>In my travels I also picked up a Victor 800 electric adding machine. I
>don't collect adding machines and only rare grab them for specific
>reasons. In this case, this is the same Victor as the Victor 9000
>computer. I knew right away because the 'o' in the "Victor" emblem was
>that striped-circle that is telling of a Victor product (plus it had a
>Scott's Valley, CA address on the back).
>
>Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass
>
> Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
> See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
>
>
>
> That sounds right. In fact, the readers are even labeled
< > "DECtape55"s. How much do these hold?
Around 185-230k 12bit words depending on how formatted.
1464 blocks of 128 words, randomly block addressable with an index.
Another scheme used 129 word blocks with over 1400 available. It was
low cost disk like and moderatly fast storage. One tape could hold a
complete OS and utilities along with a language.
Allison
< >Standard paper tape stores 10 characters/inch. Each row of holes across
< >the tape is an 8-bit character, with a small 'sprocket' hole which is
< >either used to drag the tape through the reader, or to provide a strobe
< >pulse.
<
< Is that enough to actually do some decent stuff with the PDP-8.
Humph, PC mentality... Back beofre Gates could stand there were computers
and programmers programmed such that tens of kilobyte requirements for OSs
were inconceiveable as being bloated.
Considering the basic PDP-8 has 4k 12 bit words. Yes.
< I also have some reels of film-like tape. What's the proper name for it?
< How does it compare to the paper tape?
There are two things, mylar tape (does not decay around oils) and if the
tapes have a 4" hub and say dectape then it's a old low cost magtape.
Allison
>> >A full reel of tape was 1000' I think. That's about 100K of data (to give
>> >an order of magnitude). A full box of fanfold tape would be about the same.
>>
>> I also have some reels of film-like tape. What's the proper name for it?
>> How does it compare to the paper tape?
>
>Are these little reels about 4" in diameter of 3/4" magnetic tape? If so,
>they're the original DECtapes.
That sounds right. In fact, the readers are even labeled
"DECtape55"s. How much do these hold?
What is used to 'punch' the paper tape? My reader certainly doesn't
look like it's capable.
Thanks.
Tom Owad
--
Sysop of Caesarville Online
Client software at: <http://home.earthlink.net/~tomowad/>
On Fri, 17 Jul 1998 05:54:31 -0800 (PDT), Tim Shoppa
<shoppa(a)alph02.triumf.ca> wrote:
>It's probably not too far off target. The original QDOS was certainly
>developed on a S-100 CP/M-80 system - Tim Paterson's articles in _BYTE_
>make this much obvious - but most Microsoft products
>of the era were cross-compiled from one of several DEC minicomputers
>that Microsoft owned or "leased" time on. I know that most of their early
>Macintosh products were developed on a TOPS-10 system, in particular.
>I would guess that after they bought QDOS, Microsoft moved development
>to a TOPS-10 platform.
>Tim.
Do you have copies of those articles handy? I'd really like to get
copies of them.
Thanks.
Rich Cini/WUGNET <nospam_rcini(a)msn.com>
- ClubWin! Charter Member
- MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking
- Preserver of "classic" computers
<<<< ========== reply separator ========== >>>>>
> Right now only one of the drives is hooked up, set to drive '0'.
>It will boot and run the UCSD stuff and it will boot RT-11(V2.0)....
>except that, in 7 out of the 7 packs with RT-11.... it is as if KMON
>was missing or damaged; it boots up to the dot prompt and then
>returns the ?ILL? message no matter which command I give it. I have
>RT-11(V5.0) on my 11/73 and it is fully functional, so I have had
>some cursory (N.P.I.) experience with the OS.
Ah... you're playing with an RT-11 which didn't have DCL... there are
no quick shortcuts to accomplish things. To get a directory of
your disk:
R PIP
*RK0:/L
*^C
There is no 'HELP' command... each utility has to be run explicitly.
There is no BUP, DUP, DIR... the functions that were split out into
DUP and DIR are still in PIP...
Back when I first used V2... I wrote what I called a supplementary
command scanner which was invoked if KMON couldn't otherwise identify
the command. So I had a sort of CCL way back in 1976 or so (when I
was at WPI).
Megan Gentry
Former RT-11 Developer
(1978-1992)
User of RT-11 since 1975
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry zk3.dec.com |
| Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg world.std.com |
| Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of ' ' |
| 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ |
| Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler |
| (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg |
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
Hello, all:
While going through the old Popular Electronics magazines that I
recently got, I found two article series that I would like to have complete,
but I'm missing two issues...bummer.
Does anyone have the following and would be willing to mail me a copy:
1. Popular Electronics, March 1977, Part 3 of the "Build the
Cosmac Elf" construction article.
2. Popular Electronics, November, 1981, Part 3 of the "Designing
with the 8080 uP" article.
I'd be more than happy to reimburse for copying/postage. Thanks.
Rich Cini/WUGNET <nospam_rcini(a)msn.com>
- ClubWin! Charter Member
- MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking
- Preserver of "classic" computers
<<<< ========== reply separator ========== >>>>>
I ran across a consignment store that has a large supply of shrink-wrapped MSDOS 6.x they are selling for $1 each. Probably be about $5 including postage. Please let me know if anyone is interested.
Regards,
Bob
Those of you interested I have been doing some updating to my Commodore pages.
Let me see if I can give you a list:
* Added a better 'original PET' graphic to the PET page
(Yeah Doug, that picture does look awfully familiar, hope you don't mind..)
* Added a picture of my Pet Rock (as a link in the PET page)
* Added to the PET FAQ two sub-pages on PET BASIC (one small, one REALLY BIG)
both are adapted from the Commodore 64 Programmer's Reference text
from Project 64 with changes/additions to be PET specific.
also a nother question or two
* Started a Commdore 8-bit Troubleshooting Guide
(stuff like don't put things to close or to the left of monitors, etc)
I have a couple 64 and 1541 fixer charts I plan to add someday too.
* P500 Page has all new pics! (with close-up of the back panel)
much re-wording (also found a pic of an Ultimax to add) Unfortunately
my QuickCam can't do a screen-shot, the monitor refresh
through the camera is too messy.
* Did a bit of work on the BBS history, still have to add a link
over to the CBBS North West page (4th BBS in the U.S!)...
If any of that sounds interesting, click on the link below and check it out.
(BTW I know the long PET BASIC page 4.0 command portion is incomplete, I got
lazy, what can I say.)
--
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
Larry Anderson - Sysop of Silicon Realms BBS (300-2400bd) (209) 754-1363
Visit my Commodore 8-Bit web page at:
http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/commodore.html
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
In a message dated 98-07-18 21:53:03 EDT, you write:
<< A friend of mine called me today and told me that he stopped at a garage
sale and that they had some kind of large Apple laptop computer for sale.
The owner claimed it was some sort of prototype and was asking $100 for it.
Do this sound like anything that you're interested in? >>
i dunno. ive heard that "its a prototype" line before so unless they have
incontrovertible evidence, they are probably lying. it's probably just a mac
portable. i'll pass.
> I was just pointing at that in the US, the telcos have far
>less ability to control how many phones you have the house than in
other
>parts of the world.
>
>Anyway, point taken.
>
Is there any reason for a telco to worry about the number of phones in a
house besides for purely financial concerns? Of course, if you have 100
phones all plugged in, it's possible there won't be enough power for all
of them, and certainly not enough to make them all ring. I believe the
FCC controls stuff about the amount of power a phone can use for
ringing.
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
< > TRS80 model II with 3 physically huge 8 meg HDDs
<
< 8 meg ? not five ? Whats the type and manufacturer ?
< Do you have an online picture ?
Back then SA4000, Memorex M101s were as common as the new ST506/412
drives. I have a M101 here operational on a CCS s100 crate big and
like most of the 8"s clear plastc cover to watch the goings on.
Allison
Looking for a good source of info, parts, specs, etc. for the Atari 1040
ST. Haven't found much yet out in netspace.
-
- john higginbotham ____________________________
- webmaster www.pntprinting.com -
- limbo limbo.netpath.net -
i've got just about every compact mac model made except for a 128. while
selling some things at a radio rally today, i came across a guy who said he
had a complete working one for sale. turns out this guy even works in the same
facility i do! here's what i got for $10
imagewriter // in original box.
mac128 in its original box with manuals and system disks. also has keyboard
and mouse in their boxes also along with the purchase list and other
literature. machine is dirty and will have to be disassembled and cleaned. one
thing he told me is that it has some sort of scsi upgrade. the battery door
has been replaced with a db25 connector so im not sure if it has a genuine 128
board in there. nonetheless, i will keep it in its current modified status
because the upgrade it's had is almost as "rare" as the machine itself. i also
have a lead on another guy that has about 30 compact macs in several designs:
512, plus,se and probably some more 128 models which i might also get. for
some reason, i couldnt sell all the plus and 512k models i had...
>Standard paper tape stores 10 characters/inch. Each row of holes across
>the tape is an 8-bit character, with a small 'sprocket' hole which is
>either used to drag the tape through the reader, or to provide a strobe
>pulse.
Is that enough to actually do some decent stuff with the PDP-8.
>A full reel of tape was 1000' I think. That's about 100K of data (to give
>an order of magnitude). A full box of fanfold tape would be about the same.
I also have some reels of film-like tape. What's the proper name for it?
How does it compare to the paper tape?
Thanks.
Tom Owad
--
Sysop of Caesarville Online
Client software at: <http://home.earthlink.net/~tomowad/>
Do those panels have any circuitry in the back? Switches that are
stamped with the date? Could you make pictures of the back as well?
>A bit ago, I posted a request to help identify some old front-panels
>that have been in my collection for about 20 years. I didn't get a
>single response! With all of the wise guys (sorry - smart folks ;-)
>in this group, I'm disappointed! Somebody has to recognize them!
>Allison? Anyone? Anyone? (The pictures are on my web page at
>http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r. Just click on the "Classic
>Computers" link, then "Unidentified Technological Artifacts".) Your
>help would be appreciated?
>
>
> -Bill Richman
> bill_r(a)inetnebr.com
> http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r
> (Home of the COSMAC Elf Simulator!)
>
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
On Fri, 17 Jul 1998 14:45:11 +1 "Hans Franke" <franke(a)sbs.de> wrote:
> Anyway, this plus a message from one of our own, results in an
> interesting question. How, in 1982 (or in 1980-81, when Project Acorn was
in
> beta), would Microsoft have written and compiled DOS 1?
>>86-DOS (the base of MS-DOS 1.0) at least was developed on
>>a DEC 2020 station and transfered via serial line to an
>>INTEL ISIS system for writing Disks, or to the SCP 8086
>>S100 system for runntime tests.
What is a DEC 2020?
Rich Cini/WUGNET <nospam_rcini(a)msn.com>
- ClubWin! Charter Member
- MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking
- Preserver of "classic" computers
<<<< ========== reply separator ========== >>>>>
I picked up a PDP-8, 8L, 11/20, and a bunch of accessories this week.
That PDP-8 is one cool looking computer.
Of interest in the lot was a "high speed paper tape reader" and quite a
bit of tape. The tape, one inch thick, looks to be of incredibly low
density. Just how much does this stuff hold?
More questions to come as I learn more about the PDP's. Thanks in
advance.
Tom Owad
P.S. I'm looking for an inexpensive Mac Classic or SE, 4/40
configuration, w/kb & mouse. Anybody?
--
Sysop of Caesarville Online
Client software at: <http://home.earthlink.net/~tomowad/>
On Jul 16, 19:28, Tony Duell wrote:
> > I suspect it used the same ROM as the Z80. A colleague used to have a
> > Graduate, so I'll ask him today.
>
> Please do. I've got the Z-80 host ROM (and know of a few more if this one
is
> dead), but I don't have any other Torch ROMs.
My friend reports that the Graduate doesn't have a BBC ROM, and indeed
doesn't use the Tube. It uses the 1MHz bus to access BBC I/O, apparently.
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Dept. of Computer Science
University of York
Thankfully, I was using a T1 at the time I first looked at this page and
didn't notice the size of the images. The first thing you should do is
reduce them from RGB to Grayscale. I tried it and it doesn't reduce
image quality at all. Also, does anyone currently own the rights to
this? I would like to make an HTML and DVI version of it, which would be
much easier to read, since it wouldn't involve as much horizontal
scrolling.
Now, some questions about the computer itself.
A) How much did it cost in 1998 dollars?
B) Was there ever a DIGI-COMP II?
C) What type of plastic was used in it?
D) Has anyone tried to make one?
E) How popular was it?
F) What year was it terminated?
Basically, a brief history.
>Due to popular demand, I have finally gotten around to
>adding the DIGI-COMP 1 Assembly Instructions to the
>collection of other scanned DIGI-COMP 1 manual pages at
>http://galena.tjs.org/digicomp/ . They are all 300 DPI
>grayscale images - in other words, huge! The parts list
>alone (Page 1) should be immensely helpful for those
>wishing to create their own DIGI-COMP.
>
>Thanks to everyone who e-mailed me over the past few
>days!
>
>Tom
>--
>
>This account is used so mailing lists don't
>clutter up Tom's real account. If you really
>want to talk to Tom, use tom(at)galena.tjs.org
>
>
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
A bit ago, I posted a request to help identify some old front-panels
that have been in my collection for about 20 years. I didn't get a
single response! With all of the wise guys (sorry - smart folks ;-)
in this group, I'm disappointed! Somebody has to recognize them!
Allison? Anyone? Anyone? (The pictures are on my web page at
http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r. Just click on the "Classic
Computers" link, then "Unidentified Technological Artifacts".) Your
help would be appreciated?
-Bill Richman
bill_r(a)inetnebr.com
http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r
(Home of the COSMAC Elf Simulator!)
< >they couldn't charge you on anything if they found out you were
< physically messing with the line.
HERE IN THE USA:
If you violate the NI (bell parlance for network interface) which is the
demarcation line to your home or business and damage their equipment you
will likely be at the end of both criminal and civil charges. The key
issues would be if the cause is deliberate, neglegence or accidental.
They do actively persue this as deliberate tampering with their business
as both a public safety issue and interfering with their conducting
business in an unlawful manner (mischeif, vandalism).
I would bet in Europe there are certain actions available as well.
The oddity of it all is if you fry the phone line who really looses?
Your out the use of the phone and their interface equipment is likely
protected as they have to worry about power distibution lines and
lightining getting into their stuff. The damage would be more to the user
than TPC (the phone company).
Allison
Is there anything I can do at home that will damage phone company
equipment? I suspect that 240v in a telco switch is nothing pretty.
>That was when you could get away with free phone calls by messing with
the
>line voltage.
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>> A _very_ good book for the older stuff (manual switchboards, relays,
>> step-by-step 2-motion selectors) is called 'Telephony' by (IIRC) Herbert
> and Proctor. It's a UK book,...
Hmm, I'll have to check that out.
>
>> 'Tip' and 'Ring' refer, of course to the 2 contacts on a 3-wire jack
>> (phone?) plug - like a stereo headphone plug, used on the old manual
>> switchboards. The other contact - sleeve (aka the 'P wire') was used in
>> the exchange to check if a line was in use (P=Private, I think).
I always did wonder. I've got a couple of old (can't remember the exact
date, but I'd say early 70's at a guess) answering machines somewhere
which make use of such plugs. I'd love to wire one of these things up to
a phone circuit if possible, I doubt that it could be done though - the
systems were badged "Ansafone" IIRC, making use of enormous reel-to-reel
tape decks and foot pedals... :)
(I suppose this could be judged almost-on-topic, if the phone system is
deemed to be some giant computer, and the technology, after all, is more
than 10 years old)
cheers
Jules
>