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101090 discussions

Needed: RM80 (for KS10 restoration project)

by acorda＠nswc.navy.mil

I've finally managed to partially satisfy my nostalgic obsession to resurrect a PDP-10. I just recently located a KS10, and, after a 480 mile mile trip in the back of my poor little pickup truck, it is now safely sitting in front of my garage (still in the truck... It will be _in_ the garage as soon as I can con a couple of my friends into giving me a hand. This is not a light load :-) The next thing I'm going to need is a Massbus drive (preferably, an RM80) If anyone has one of these that they would be willing to part with, please drop me an email note. I'm located in Virginia, but I'm willing to drive a reasonable distance to pick one of these critters up (the closer the better, of course :-) Shipping would be impractical. The other possibility is to build an adapter that I could stick in a PC which would emulate a Massbus device, but to do this, I'd need pretty complete specs on the Massbus (i.e. pinouts, timing, etc.) Does anyone happen to have this info? I've done a dejanews search, but nothing really useful turned up. If I can locate a partially complete RM80 (i.e. one with the Massbus to modified-SMD adapter still present and intact in the drive pedistal, then I might try to build an adapter to emulate the modified-SMD interface supported by the massbus adapter cardset. I suspect this might be a simpler emulation, but it would still require info on the modified-SMD interface supported by the RM80. If anyone has details on this interface, please let me know! BTW, I'm also on the lookout for TOPS-10 and/or TOPS-20 load tapes (or images thereof, or bits and pieces... whatever I can find that will get me closer to bringing this critter back to life! -Thanks in advance... -al -acorda(a)geocities.com

26 years, 8 months

Apple stuff....

by ethan_dicks＠yahoo.com

--- Jason Willgruber <roblwill(a)usaor.net> wrote: > Does anyone have (or know where to get) an old (b/w) Apple > ImageWriter printer for under $20? I have an untested ImageWriter that I got last month that was attached to the Apple //c+ that was the object of my interest. I would be willing to let it go for $20 plus shipping. > I also need a cable to connect an Apple //c to a printer. I only have the one cable that came with the //c+. I could get you the pinout if you needed it. -ethan _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

26 years, 8 months

microcode, compilers, and supercomputer architecture

by clintw＠colorado.cirrus.com

> > ::> > I have heard of Airbuses crashing because the controls were poorly > ::> > designed. I've never heard of a 777 crashing. I've also never heard of any > ::> > medical machines failing, though this would tend to be underpublicized. > > ::Actually, the THERAC-25 radiation therapy machine is a good example of > ::poor hardware AND software design which killed a number of people by > ::giving them too high a dose of radiation, either for too long or > ::without the proper screen in place. > > !?! > > Has this been documented anywhere? Where did you find this out from? > I read an article about it several years ago, but I don't remember what magazine it was it... One of the IEEE or ACM periodicals, I think. A quick Alta-Vista search on "therac" turns up 476 matches, but a lot of them are CS student papers. Take a look at http://ei.cs.vt.edu/~cs3604/lib/Therac_25/Therac_1.html This is a reprint from IEEE Computer (might even be the original article I saw :) clint

26 years, 8 months

microcode, compilers, and supercomputer architecture

by clintw＠colorado.cirrus.com

> > > Max Eskin <max82(a)surfree.com> wrote: > > > > I have heard of Airbuses crashing because the controls were poorly > > designed. I've never heard of a 777 crashing. I've also never heard of any > > medical machines failing, though this would tend to be underpublicized. > Actually, the THERAC-25 radiation therapy machine is a good example of poor hardware AND software design which killed a number of people by giving them too high a dose of radiation, either for too long or without the proper screen in place. clint

26 years, 8 months

Lisp, the machine language. Was Re: Hallelujah!

by ss＠allegro.com

William writes: > My wish is for a computer system that provides for dynamically modifiable > microcode, so that my self-modifying programs could obtain a new level > of self-modifyability! Ah..a few decades too late :) The Burroughs B1700 (and B1800 and B1900) could have been used that way, I suppose. The machine had multiple microcode sets, executed by picocode. (IIRC, Picocode was written in an ALGOL-like language) I don't recall seeing any particularly protection mechanism that would have prevented you from modifying a microcode on the fly. The COBOL compiler determined which microcode to use, based on things like the number of variables used by the program being compiled. (If a program used a small number of variables, it could be compiled to a microcode instruction set that had more compact instructions because the number of address bits was smaller.) Another microcode instruction set was used for the primary OS programming language (SPL? XPL? can't recall). I seem to recall several other microcode sets being around as well. When processes were "time sliced" (multi-programming), the microcode was also time sliced. (I.e., process A might be using one microcode, while "simultaneously" process B might be using a different microcode). > As for the Lisp difficulties, remember, it takes only a few of the basic > operators to define the language. All else can be derived from same, > and AFAIK is derived from same. So, there is no need to implement > derivable functions in microcode. > > William R. Buckley >

26 years, 8 months

FA: Compucolor II

by adavie＠mad.scientist.com

As the title says, I'm selling my Compucolor II computer. The URL is http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=87600036 I'm diverting my collecting interests into other areas, and need $$$ Cheers A

26 years, 8 months

homemade computer for fun and experience...

by edick＠idcomm.com

You're quite right that most software license agreements decline to warrant "suitability for any specific purpose," as a matter of the boilerplate, but DEC sales agreements, not the licenses, specifically dodged the question of their software doing anything of use at all. In any case, I found that distasteful and, from the point at which I learned of that, declined ever to associate myself with any DEC hardware or software again. I doubt that it's cost me even a dime to do so. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Ward D. Griffiths III <gram(a)cnct.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Monday, April 05, 1999 10:27 PM Subject: Re: homemade computer for fun and experience... >On Tue, 6 Apr 1999, Computer Room Internet Cafe wrote: > >> I've yet to see ANY software license that guarantees the software will >> actually DO anything. Some do guarantee to take up space on a disk. >> That's about it. > >Actually, I've never seen a software license that guarantees to take >up disk space, though the bit on the outside generally implies you'd >best have a bunch to spare. Hell, I've only seen one _printed book_ >with a space guarantee, when Robert A. Heinlein in his _Expanded >Universe_ promised that the book would contain enough pages to hold >the covers apart or your money back. (Mind you, lots of computer >documentation would fail _that_ promise if they attempted it, be it >hardware or software manuals). >-- >Ward Griffiths >"the timid die just like the daring; and if you don't take the plunge then >you'll just take the fall" Michael Longcor >

26 years, 8 months

OT: early rising (was: RE: Timonium Hamfest)

by Philip.Belben＠pgen.com

> What is it about hamfests that cause otherwise > sane individuals to get up at the crack of dawn? > > Almost every computer involved person I know who > has any control of their work schedule: > > 1) Gets up after the sun has properly warmed the earth > where they live > 2) Eats lunch for breakfast > 3) Eats dinner for lunch > 4) Has Chinese delivered at 1 a.m. for dinner > 5) Sleeps till 2 or 3 p.m. on Saturday if at all possible Like, I imagine, most people on this list, I do not regard myself as sane. That said, I think the morning is a sadly under-rated time of day. My alarm clock goes off at 6 am whether I need to go to work or not. I get up any time between 6.00 and 7.15 on work days, 6.00 and 8.00 on other days. It is not quite random - if I have been short of sleep lately, or am in the middle of a good book, I tend to get up later. And I find it quite hard to do anything remotely involving the brain after 10pm. Am I really that unusual? Philip.

26 years, 8 months

ABS - or is it Pure BS

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Aircraft Tragedies' shows, big airplanes aren't maneuvrable enough to turn <while they're skidding. And don't they turn by adjusting the engine thrust <anyway? It's so they come to a stop. How else would you bring a 747 at 400,000 pounds from 140+knots to 0 in less than 7000 feet! Turning is a whole different process. I feel comfortable discussing this as a pilot on this point. Allison

26 years, 8 months

this is not rec.autos

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 99-04-06 02:39:31 EDT, you write: << it certainly has me squealing... At 11:24 PM 4/5/99 -0700, Joseph S. Barrera III wrote: >... but it sure seems like it, lately. Can't we put the brakes on the ABS >discussion (as it were :-)? >>

26 years, 8 months

ABS - or is it Pure BS

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<they always seem to lock up. Well, the pumping action occurs but, at each <application of the pump, I notice wheel lock-up. There is no stopping. < <William R. Buckley I live in New England and nothing works on ice but ABS works better. If your sharp and have ice racing experince you MIGHT do better manually. The average idiot on the road driving a 2.5ton SUV doesn't qualify. The put ABS on BIG airplanes for a reason and not for the added weight. Allison

26 years, 8 months

OT Simulators was Re: ABS - or is it Pure BS

by netcafe＠pirie.mtx.net.au

-----Original Message----- From: Ward Donald Griffiths III <gram(a)cnct.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Tuesday, 6 April 1999 14:16 Subject: Re: ABS - or is it Pure BS >Computer Room Internet Cafe wrote: > >> With all due respect, IMHO, simulators that are not mounted on big hydraulic >> jacks and convince you that you are in a real aeroplane are not much chop >> for anything except perhaps teaching instrument flying, and fairly limited >> in that area. > >Even those have their limitations. The C5A simulator I used to >service wouldn't tilt past 25 or so degrees from horizontal, so >there was no way to practice a barrel roll. (Yeah, the computer >flight sims will let you do that, but they don't teach you how to >think with all of your heart's blood pressing on your brain). Exactly. They also don't teach you to trust your instruments when your middle ear is trying to convince you that you are flying straight and level when in fact you are in a descending left spiral. You just don't get the feedback in your loungeroom. The best sims in the world can't duplicate that experience, but they are at least enough to give you an idea. I know that people have been airsick in the P3 sim at RAAF Edinburgh when they have turbulence dialled in. It's fairly convincing for most things. They can't quite duplicate the separation of the wing leading edge when the aircraft is overstressed, but they can at least reproduce the conditions. (Real Orions are known to do that, we lost one at Cocos Island a year or two back that way, not a fault of the aircraft, it was being, ahem, mishandled at the time.) >I'll admit I'm not the engineer to build a decent _large_ >aircraft simulator to give that experience -- part of the deal in >the C5A simulator was the fact that it was a rather large object >with a bunch of people in the cabin, hard to make that realistic >sticking the pilot (or navigator or flight engineer) in a closet. Suspension of disbelief is fairly vital if the simulator experience is to have much usefullness when related to the real world. It's got to feel real enough to make you forget it's not an aeroplane, and it's got to behave like the real aeroplane as much as possible without antigravity assistance. Cheers Geoff Roberts

26 years, 8 months

homemade computer for fun and experience...

by gram＠cnct.com

On Tue, 6 Apr 1999, Computer Room Internet Cafe wrote: > I've yet to see ANY software license that guarantees the software will > actually DO anything. Some do guarantee to take up space on a disk. > That's about it. Actually, I've never seen a software license that guarantees to take up disk space, though the note on the label generally implies you'd best have a bunch to spare. Hell, I've only seen one _printed book_ with a space guarantee, when Robert A. Heinlein in his _Expanded Universe_ promised that the book would contain enough pages to hold the covers apart or your money back. (Mind you, lots of computer documentation would fail _that_ promise if they attempted it, be it hardware or software manuals). -- Ward Griffiths "the timid die just like the daring; and if you don't take the plunge then you'll just take the fall" Michael Longcor

26 years, 8 months

homemade computer for fun and experience...

by netcafe＠pirie.mtx.net.au

-----Original Message----- From: Ward D. Griffiths III <gram(a)cnct.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Tuesday, 6 April 1999 12:16 Subject: Re: homemade computer for fun and experience... >On Mon, 5 Apr 1999, Richard Erlacher wrote: > >> I have never had a desire for DEC hardware, mainly because of my distaste >> (and disdain) for their application of technology, and of course for their >> overemphasis on the bottom line, meaning THEIR bottom line. If you read the >> fine print, their sales documents specifically deny that they claim their >> products work. argghhh! I'm GLAD they're gone. THEY were the reason I had >> to have terminals around as long as I did. > >Ever read a MICROS~1 license agreement? The DEC sales material wasn't >binding. I've yet to see ANY software license that guarantees the software will actually DO anything. Some do guarantee to take up space on a disk. That's about it. Cheers Geoff Roberts

26 years, 8 months

ABS - or is it Pure BS

by netcafe＠pirie.mtx.net.au

26 years, 8 months

ABS - or is it Pure BS

by netcafe＠pirie.mtx.net.au

-----Original Message----- From: Max Eskin <max82(a)surfree.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Tuesday, 6 April 1999 11:29 Subject: Re: ABS - or is it Pure BS >On Mon, 5 Apr 1999, Allison J Parent wrote: >>The put ABS on BIG airplanes for a reason and not for the added weight. > >I don't know if my Microsoft Flight Simulator experience is worth >anything, With all due respect, IMHO, simulators that are not mounted on big hydraulic jacks and convince you that you are in a real aeroplane are not much chop for anything except perhaps teaching instrument flying, and fairly limited in that area. >but judging by what I've seen both in it and in various 'Worst >Aircraft Tragedies' shows, big airplanes aren't maneuvrable enough to turn >while they're skidding. The whole point of abs on a heavy aircraft is so they DON'T skid. My experience with virually all vehicles is that they are difficult to maneuvre whilst skidding! Can't comment on the snow and ice issue, (never see that around here) but abs can be hazardous on gravel roads (we have lots of them) IF the driver is not aware of, and trained in the way it affects vehicle handling. Many of our urban brethren manage to come unstuck on gravel, country boys don't seem to have much trouble, whether they have abs or not, so I suspect the biggest factor is not the vehicle or it's braking system, but the skill level of the driver and the degree of familiarity with the vehicle, it's handling and the road surface.. >And don't they turn by adjusting the engine thrust Not since the DC3 days. No, they have steerable nosewheels, attached to the rudder pedals, or to an auxiliary steering wheel. Steering with differential throttle may be used to ASSIST in turning an aircraft, but not on it's own, unless the nosewheel steering has failed. Geoff Roberts VK5KDR 200+ hours in various light aircraft. 10 years in Air Traffic Services 5 of 'em at Sydney Kingsford-Smith. 5 in the bush 300 miles from anywhere.

26 years, 8 months

IBM 5150 PC disk drive questions

by roblwill＠usaor.net

O.K. I think I have it figured out. I'll have to either get a cable for the external drives (or make one). I was thinking that the 4869 was the drive that would be used with the 5170, but it isn't. Was there a drive box available from IBM for the 5150 (or was that the expansion chassis)? ThAnX, -- -Jason Willgruber (roblwill(a)usaor.net) ICQ#: 1730318 <http://members.tripod.com/general_1> -----Original Message----- From: Joe <rigdonj(a)intellistar.net> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Monday, April 05, 1999 1:33 PM Subject: Re: IBM 5150 PC disk drive questions >Jason, > > The external cable had two connectors and a twist in it just like the >internal one. > > > Joe > >At 01:29 PM 4/5/99 -0400, you wrote: >>According to the jumper settings on the 5150, it appears that 4 floppy >>drives can be connected to the computer. How is this possible? I'm >>guessing 2 internal, and two external, but there's only one connector for an >>external drive, so it would only allow 3 drives. >>Or is there a special controller that has dual external ports? >> >>Any suggestions? >> >>ThAnX, >>-- >> -Jason Willgruber >> (roblwill(a)usaor.net) >> ICQ#: 1730318 >><http://members.tripod.com/general_1> >> >> > >

26 years, 8 months

bringing up an 8f...

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<lamps but they are 5v versions rather than the 8v lamps of the original. I <do however minimize the hours on that panel since I worry about the lamps <burning out. (I've got three spares left ...) Even back when it was a common hack as well as commercial LED replacements for either 8E logic. If done as was common back then it would be legit. Oh the leds used then were ONLY available in red or IR. Replacement bulbs can be had as well but the LED fix is permanent. Allison

26 years, 8 months

Fwd: TRANSFORMER

by cfandt＠netsync.net

For those who may need such a thing . . . Contact the poster directly, not me. >X-Mailer: Juno 2.0.11 >Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 20:56:34 -0400 >Reply-To: jimconners(a)JUNO.COM >Sender: Heathkit Owners and Collectors List <HEATH(a)LISTSERV.TEMPE.GOV> >From: Jim Conners <jimconners(a)JUNO.COM> >Subject: TRANSFORMER >To: HEATH(a)LISTSERV.TEMPE.GOV > >Hi, >I just found tucked away a brand new transformer for an H-89 computer. >It is marked 54-969 and 172-7575 on the tape on the box and it is marked >54-969 and 60-8204 on the transformer. I was wondering if anyone knew if >this part may have been used in any other Heathkits. I doubt anyone is >repairing an H-89. >Thanks, >Jim > >--- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- -- >To subscribe: listserv(a)listserv.tempe.gov >and in body: subscribe HEATH yourfirstname yourlastname >To unsubscribe: listserv(a)listserv.tempe.gov >and in body: signoff HEATH >Archives for HEATH: http://www.tempe.gov/archives >--- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt(a)netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/awa

26 years, 8 months

ABS - or is it Pure BS

by roblwill＠usaor.net

This winter, I had a small argument with my dad as to who's car would stop faster - his 1994 Ford explorer, or my 1983 AMC Wagoneer. He claimed that his would stop faster because of the ABS. We both drove to the top of the hill (about 200 feet, 30 degree slope - snow covered). We went down the hill at separate times, each going 15 MPH at the time the brakes were applied. The Jeep, without ABS, and the same type of tires as the Ford (Firestone ATX - studded), stopped about 5 feet shorter than the Ford. Anyone know the average weight of a Ford Explorer? I know the Jeep weighs 5,975 lb., but I have to figure in the weight of the Ford to find out accurately. -- -Jason Willgruber (roblwill(a)usaor.net) ICQ#: 1730318 <http://members.tripod.com/general_1> -----Original Message----- From: Buck Savage <hhacker(a)home.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Monday, April 05, 1999 3:19 PM Subject: ABS - or is it Pure BS > >>2) even if the ABS system fails it still works just like non-ABS brakes. >unless >>the vacuum (power assisted) system fails or the brake line is cut, or (very >>unlikely) the piston sticks open, the brakes will work just fine. >> > > >ABS - American Bull Shi... > >I have noted one difficulty with ABS, and that is its failure to operate on >snow >and ice. Since I live in Southern California, I do not get that much snow >but, >in any quick application of my Mustang's breaks, on snow covered roads, >they always seem to lock up. Well, the pumping action occurs but, at each >application of the pump, I notice wheel lock-up. There is no stopping. > >William R. Buckley > >

26 years, 8 months

bringing up an 8f...

by geoffrob＠stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au

-----Original Message----- From: Eric Smith <eric(a)brouhaha.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Tuesday, 6 April 1999 04:29 Subject: Re: bringing up an 8f... >So in the context of this discussion about scanned documents, you're saying >that you either want them OCR'd or not at all? No. Any form of document is preferable to none at all, if that is the option. I was simply stating a preference. It's not an ideal world, nor is there an ideal solution. >I've received complaints like that about my site. Fortunately I'm not as >thin-skinned as some people, or I might have simply removed the scanned >images a long time ago. Not from me. Anyone who takes the time to provide online docs in any form has my gratitude. Whether their method of choice or necessity is the one I like or not. Kindest Regards Geoff Roberts >

26 years, 8 months

IBM 5150 PC disk drive questions

by edick＠idcomm.com

Well, maybe, but the box of them that I had had no twist, hence would not access drive1. Perhaps it wouldn't do drive 2 either. I certainly never tried them because my need for these cable was for the connectors. I was glad there were no twists because it meant I could use the cables less the DC37 connector. They were useful as hard disk cables. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Joe <rigdonj(a)intellistar.net> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Monday, April 05, 1999 2:39 PM Subject: Re: IBM 5150 PC disk drive questions Jason, The external cable had two connectors and a twist in it just like the internal one. Joe At 01:29 PM 4/5/99 -0400, you wrote: >According to the jumper settings on the 5150, it appears that 4 floppy >drives can be connected to the computer. How is this possible? I'm >guessing 2 internal, and two external, but there's only one connector for an >external drive, so it would only allow 3 drives. >Or is there a special controller that has dual external ports? > >Any suggestions? > >ThAnX, >-- > -Jason Willgruber > (roblwill(a)usaor.net) > ICQ#: 1730318 ><http://members.tripod.com/general_1> > >

26 years, 8 months

IBM PC disk drive questions

by edick＠idcomm.com

I once had a box of "External Drive" cables for a PC. These were terminated in a DC37 at one end and had straight (no twist) cable to the two edge connector sockets, ostensibly for drives 2,3,or 4. This arrangement ostensibly allowed for up to four drives. Dual external ports certainly wouldn't be needed with this arrangement. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Jason Willgruber <roblwill(a)usaor.net> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Monday, April 05, 1999 11:43 AM Subject: IBM PC disk drive questions >According to the jumper settings on the 5150, it appears that 4 floppy >drives can be connected to the computer. How is this possible? I'm >guessing 2 internal, and two external, but there's only one connector for an >external drive, so it would only allow 3 drives. >Or is there a special controller that has dual external ports? > >Any suggestions? > >ThAnX, >-- > -Jason Willgruber > (roblwill(a)usaor.net) > ICQ#: 1730318 ><http://members.tripod.com/general_1> > > > > > >

26 years, 8 months

bringing up an 8f...

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Alas it isn't... We're both right. The 8/e panel uses diode gates (in the <maintenance manual, printset and the physical machine on my desk). The <8/f uses TTL gates. The last 8e pannel I worked with was also ttl. there may have been two versions (very likely). The offending part was a 74L54 with a bad input. It's now mostly up and ready for more testing. Allison

26 years, 8 months

VAX 6000/410 available in a couple of months

by pjt＠phxase.allied.com

Still under DEC maintenance. No licences for transfer. Specifications available on request. -- Philip J. Tait.....AlliedSignal Engines, Phoenix, Az.....pjt(a)phxase.allied.com

26 years, 8 months

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test-drb