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101090 discussions

Pink Screen of Death? (was: Re: Hallelujah!)

by walt＠accessus.org

This is the screen scheme from the early WordPerfect/DOS days of Jerry's young years. -w. -----Original Message----- From: Zane H. Healy <healyzh(a)aracnet.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Monday, April 12, 1999 7:33 PM Subject: Re: Pink Screen of Death? (was: Re: Hallelujah!) >>> Well, I don't know. However, MS Word/Windows and /Macintosh has a strange >>> option: to have large white letters on a blue background instead of black >>> on white. This has nothing to do with any color settings, and no other >>> colors can be used in a similar way. This may have classic reasons. Anyone >>> know? >> >>Don't know the exact reason but that was the default color >>combination of the DOS version of MS Word (and every day I use >>the current version, I long for the old one). >> >>George > >I think this has something to do with a request for an enhancement made by >Jerry Pornelle <sp> believe it or not. I read something recenty where he >wrote about having gotten MS to add some special colour combination for him. > > Zane >| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | >| healyzh(a)aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | >| healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | >+----------------------------------+----------------------------+ >| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | >| and Zane's Computer Museum. | >| http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | > >

26 years, 8 months

Restoring an 8/E

by mbg＠world.std.com

> Got to stick my nose in here, if you research it, you will find that >concentrated solutions of methylene chloride are a confirmed >carcinogenic. I'm sure... I didn't get a chance to check the Merck Manual... tonight's lab was just too complex and annoying... the instructor added steps to the already documented procedure, as well as modified others... and since it was a two-part lab (part I having been done the night I missed it for observing seder with my partner), I didn't have anything I needed which was produced during step I... so my lab partner and I had to do it tonight... <sigh> >That said, I would still use it (if available), use gloves and put a fan >to blow the fumes away from me during assembly. But then, I do this kind >of stuff every day. My job. Absolutely... >Just be careful. Your too good to lose. Thanks... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

26 years, 8 months

digital bites the dust, finally

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<> Well, the two big signs that said <> <> |d|i|g|i|t|a|l| <> <> on the DECwest buildings in Bellevue, WA <> disappeared sometime in the last few days. <> <> Just big blanks there now, not even a Compaq, yet. Happend in Maynard two months ago at PK3 and LKG. I pass both every day. Allison

26 years, 8 months

stepping machanism of Apple Disk ][ drive (was Re: Heatkit 51/4

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<I started on the Z80, then 6502, followed by ARM, 68K, 6809, 8048, PDP11, <MIPS in no particular order. I still like the Z80 and 6502, but the ARM i <one of my favourites. I've never written any serious code for x86, and <what I've seen of the architecture fills me with loathing ;-) ARM, MIPS are both unknown to me from design or programming. I've looked at the ARM though and it's very appealing. I've written code for 8088/186 and they didn't make me happy. They weren't that fast and awkward with the segments. I'd have rather used z180. I've been playing recently with z8001 and Z8002 and they arent too bad and much easier to like than the 808x. The 6809 was ok, it felt like PDP-11 but the speed wasn't as good. Never got excited over the 68k even though I've had two s100 cards pass through my hands with them. It looked sorta like 32bit PDP-11 with registers that were asymetric in addressing and use. My all time fun machine is still the 6100 (or pdp-8). It has an instruction set that's hard to forget and effectve enough. Allison

26 years, 8 months

Restoring an 8/E

by mbg＠world.std.com

>Megan: since you are taking chemistry get a small bottle of methylene >chloride. It works wonders as a plastic glue. At the EPA we made >aquariums out of Plexiglas and used it for gluing the panels together. >You will want a 50 or a 100 microliter syringe to dispense it also. Just so happens I have lab tonight... I'll check the Merck Manual and see if they have any... :-) Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

26 years, 8 months

6502 vs Z80, round 97

by edick＠idcomm.com

It's true, what you say about the value of discussing performance without discussing the task. Keep in mind, though, that Motorola's favorite trick was to boast how fast its processors could execute no-op's. The 6502 core is in as many libraries as it is because it is small and thrifty, not because it's fast. It's fast because it's small and thrifty. It was included in a wide range of cell libraries, particularly the Rockwell incarnation. I'm not sure why this was the case. Perhaps it's because they (Rockwell) had stopped producing the CPU and were using it as a core themselves. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Mike Ford <mikeford(a)netwiz.net> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Monday, April 12, 1999 3:21 PM Subject: 6502 vs Z80, round 97 >>I was pointing out that is the processor was running fast enough even a >>dog can look good. ;) Obviously using a 8mhz z80 as the standard your >>comparison CPU had better be of similar generational speed or it may fail >>the test. the inverse is with a 33mhz z185 I know I can blow the 65c02 >>out of the water unless someone has at least a 25-30mhz 6502! > >I think I remember reading that the 6502 was eventually included in gate >array logic libraries, so that GaaS parts with Ghz clocks likely exist >(perhaps only embedded in other designs though). > >One of the things I have noticed is that great similarity exists between a >couple of instruction sets, the 6502 and the Sparc, and the IBM 360 and >68000. Kind of the classics of RISC and CISC, and I love them both. > >Arguing about the 6502 vs Z80 makes about as much sense as arguing about >which cart is faster without discussing the horse or load. As I remember it >speed was a big "talking" point, but the real issue for most power users >was capacity, not speed. > >

26 years, 8 months

z80 timing... 6502 timing

by allisonp＠world.std.com

>from my ampro LB using calibrated logic analyser... Tc = 1/clock z80A 4mhz or 250ns (clock is symetric) address stable before Memreq/ ~80nS (occurs 0.5clocks earlier than read or wr -delays) WR/ width 210ns (roughly 1 clock -delays) RD/ width (M1) 290us (roughly 1.5 clocks -delays RD/ width (other) 390us (roughly two clocks -delays) So the longest memory use cycle is address setup+ RD/ or about 470us. Even the rom chip select was active for less than 400ns and that includes propagation delays. the 4mhz z80 wants memories with access times in the 250ns range. In terms of memory bandwidth used the z80 runs from a high of 80% on M1 cycles (due to z80 providing memory refersh) to around less than 50% on other read or write cycles. Refresh is not a required signal for operation with static rams so the M1 memeory bandwidh can be less than 50%. This set of statements is also inaccurate as it is worst case for some instuctions. In those cases like ADD DE,HL that takes many cycles but the only bus useage is during M1 so the average bandwidth can be very low. To get 750ns I need to slow the clock to about less than 2mhz or add the time for m1 and refresh at 4mhz. In either case it's apples and oranges. The 6502 @2mhz would want 300ns memory. An aside to this is that the 6502 like many cpus use both edges of the clock to trigger functions via a two phase internal clock so there are roughly 4 phase pulses per cycle internally. the external timing of the 6502 looks simpler due to it's use of signals and the synchronous nature of the machine. this is wny external clock frequency is so meaningless. Instruction execution time is the only measure. the 6502 memory useage is far higher as it is active for half the processor cycle so it's roughly 50% in all cases. This makes hidden refresh of Drams easier with the regular cycle timing but allows less time to achieve it. If the refresh is done during the inactive portion of the 6502 cycle then memory bandwidth nears 100% use. The exception is if the memory is fast enough it can be done with post read refresh (cas after ras). Static rams will run at ~50% of bus bandwidth. Allison

26 years, 8 months

IBM Programmed Symbols Adapter

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

I just picked up an IBM 3270 Personal Computer Programmed Symbols Adapter card in the box. The box says that it's "an option that provides the storage and controls for displaying an APL font and six additional programmable fonts." It's a full length 8 bit card with two sockets on the to edge. There is also two jumpers in the box that I assume are used to jumper this card to another card. I didn't get any instructions or software with it. Does anyone know how to use it or have instructions etc for it? Joe

26 years, 8 months

stepping machanism of Apple Disk ][ drive (was Re: Heatkit 51/4 floppies)

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Apr 11, 21:47, Richard Erlacher wrote: > From: Allison J Parent <allisonp(a)world.std.com> > ><Have YOU seen a 'C' compiler for any of the 6502 types? > > > >Never. There could have been one but I'd wonder about code efficientcy. > >Then again I've never seen one for 9900 bit that as CISC a machine if > >there ever was one. > > Someone posted a small-c compiler for the 6502 as implemented in popular > machines of the early '80's. That might be worth a look. There were at least two C compilers for the BBC micro in the mid-80s. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

26 years, 8 months

Fwd: Metric conversions..??

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Apr 11, 20:56, Christian Fandt wrote: > Sorry to a few of the list members who are not native English speakers. > There are a few strange colloquial or American expressions. Ask in private > email. However, even I am not sure what a "demijohn" really is except for > perhaps a 1/2 bath in a house. A large squat glass bottle, typically 2-3 gallons. Over here, 2 gallon sizes are commonly used by homebrew winemakers. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

26 years, 8 months

IBM diagnostic cassette <.?>

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 99-04-12 20:29:05 EDT, you write: > >picked up two neat items at the hamfest today. the first was two clean > amiga > >500s and a IBM diagnostic cassette ver 1.02 with a part number 6081562. > looks > >like it only has 5 minutes of tape on it. i presume its only for the 5150. > >how would one run this tape? > > > > Do you have an extra power supply for those 500 that I could some how > aquire? The flea market special I have didn't come with one. > unfortunately i only got one power supply. the ps seems fairly simple though. 5v 4.5a 12v 1a -12v 100ma perhaps one could be adapted to work.

26 years, 8 months

Fw: Getting rid of old stuff...

by fauradon＠pclink.com

Reply to the guy directly. If shipping is a problem I may be able to help... But first contact should be to Peter Seebach >----- Original Message ----- >From: Peter Seebach <seebs(a)plethora.net> >Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers >Sent: Saturday, April 10, 1999 2:18 PM >Subject: Getting rid of old stuff... > > >> First off, if I owe you a copy of the 3b1 system software, let me know - I >> have a list of people to send this to, but I've been swamped and I may >have >> lost entries. >> >> Secondly, anyone (especially in the Minneapolis/St. Paul area) want a >bunch >> of old hardware? I have a passel of sun 3/80's, a 3/60, a 3/50, a couple >> of 4/110's, and two 3/160's, in varying states of disrepair. The 3/80's >> mostly need new NVRAM. I have memory for most of them, but not >necessarily >> all. I have a couple of monitors, and a handful of high- and low- >resolution >> graphics cards for the 3/80's. I think I even have a couple of early >color >> frame buffers. Also, about six of the old shoebox drive/tape bays. (The >> gray metal ones.) >> >> Cost: Free for the taking, or you pay shipping. My goal here is to get >> this stuff to people who will use it, or who can at least use it as spare >> parts, instead of having it recycled. I no longer have the time to play >> with as many old computers as I'd like. :( >> >> -s >> -- >> Copyright 1999, All rights reserved. Peter Seebach / seebs(a)plethora.net >> C/Unix wizard, Pro-commerce radical, Spam fighter. Boycott Spamazon! >> Will work for interesting hardware. http://www.plethora.net/~seebs/ >> Visit my new ISP <URL:http://www.plethora.net/> --- More Net, Less Spam! > >

26 years, 8 months

IBM diagnostic cassette <?>

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

picked up two neat items at the hamfest today. the first was two clean amiga 500s and a IBM diagnostic cassette ver 1.02 with a part number 6081562. looks like it only has 5 minutes of tape on it. i presume its only for the 5150. how would one run this tape?

26 years, 8 months

stepping machanism of Apple Disk ][ drive (was Re: Heatkit 51/4 floppies)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<You're certain right . . . it is a dead horse . . . killed by the insistenc <that 750 ns < 250 ns. < <Dick Meaningless incorrect drivel, now give it up. Allison

26 years, 8 months

WTTA (Want To Throw Away): DEC PMAG-AA

by paulk＠microsoft.com

Does anyone have any use for a TURBOchannel monochrome framebuffer -- a PMAG-AA?? I feel guilty just pitching it, but I'm tired of packing it up every time I move. Free for the asking. Paul Kearns paulk(a)microsoft.com

26 years, 8 months

[RANTISH] Programming Stupidity

by DSEAGRAV＠toad.xkl.com

Wonderful quote from my boss, who's (supposed to be a professional programmer for Caterpillar): "You should use strings instead of integers. You can put bigger numbers in a string." [Large progressive rant here, nevermind me...] This came up while I was being forced to write a Visual Basic program. You see, he saw me playing with BASIC on one of the UNIXen, and he thinks "BASIC = Visual Basic!". It doesn't. Visual basic is almost entirely worse. You guys think BASIC is bad? How about BASIC that automagically writes bad Windows code for you! This thing couldn't make optimized code if Billy-boy's monopoly depended on it. On top of that, the bad code that it DOES generate doesn't even work. We build the .EXE on a Win98 machine - Now it refusues to run on 95. Microsoft's wizard for making install programs for your software sucks worse. It replaced some DLLs it wasn't supposed to have on our (one and only, thank Goddess!) NT server, and NT crashed like you wouldn't believe. I'm gonna have a hell of a time putting THAT back together... On top of this, the installer doesn't run under 95, either. It starts just fine, makes a pathetic attempt at copying files, then blows up horrbibly with Error 0x16E. Wasn't Billy saying they were supposed to make our error messages make SENSE? With an error message like that, a dialog box reading "YOU LOSE!" would be better. Not to mention a damn sight funnier. We're going to reformat one of our 95 boxen and start from a clean machine - My bet is the installer will find some way to do nasty things to the partition table. The sad part is, this has become the status quo. And I hate it. I can't stand it. This is progress? If progress is like evolution, I'd sure like to jump back in time and see what we came from, it's probably a lot better than the here-and-now... Another quote from my boss: "In programming, it doesn't matter how well it runs or does it's job. The bottom line is, 'can we sell it to someone?'" Is it just me, or is that just plain wrong? Please say it's not only me... I hate being alone, 'cause that means I'm right and everyone else is wrong. Sorry for that, I just needed to vent. Do with it what you will... -------

26 years, 8 months

Don Lancaster was Re: Ebay Mark-8 Plans

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

At 01:15 PM 4/12/99 -0700, Sellam wrote: >> VCF has a generous travel fund, fueled by Intel, Paul Allen, and >> auctions of antique computer wiring harnesses on eBay. In fact, >> any member of this mailing list is eligible for grants of up to >> $1,500 for travel and lodging purposes, if you wish to attend. > >Well, this is certainly news to me, and I'd love if you would explain this >in private e-mail :) > >(for the record, no I don't know what he's talking about so please don't >e-mail me asking where to sign up). Shucks! and I was all set to go! Joe

26 years, 8 months

Therac-25 (was: microcode, compilers, and supercomputer architecture)

by yakowenk＠cs.unc.edu

That's the same URL that I have bookmarked. I very strongly recommend that every programmer read through it, at least once. It is long, but enlightening. Correctness is a lot more than "seems to work". Bill. On Tue, 6 Apr 1999, clintw(a)colorado.cirrus.com (Clint Wolff) wrote: ] > ::Actually, the THERAC-25 radiation therapy machine is a good example of ] > ::poor hardware AND software design which killed a number of people by ] > ::giving them too high a dose of radiation, either for too long or ] > ::without the proper screen in place. ] > ] > !?! ] > ] > Has this been documented anywhere? Where did you find this out from? ... ] Take a look at http://ei.cs.vt.edu/~cs3604/lib/Therac_25/Therac_1.html ] This is a reprint from IEEE Computer (might even be the original article ] I saw :) ] ] clint

26 years, 8 months

What if,... early PCs (was: stepping machanism

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<You've got two tracks mixed up, I think. True, the Apple II was quite <plentiful in 80, but not in businesses the way it was in 82-83. I even ha <several of them with people to man them as well. I hated the Apple but <loved the 6502. In the meantime, I noted that the RS Model 1 was a piece o <junk, and, in fact, so much of one that I never bought one, even for <experimentation, and I had nearly every other sort of box around the shop. OK, maybe where you were that was true. However despite the TRS80s shortfalls (most corrected with mods or outside hardware) I knew of businesses using them, and I may add same for the apple II. <The model 1 was quite common, but the model 1 was in too many pieces to be <of much interest to most folks. What's more, it was pretty weak-kneed. Th <model 3 held out hope, though that was later dashed when the model 3 turne <out to be not much better. My slant was the M1 was close but people wanted something more "one box". The M3 was never more than a blip on the screen because when it hit the streets there were plenty more choices and all of them deemed (if only subjectively) better. In the business worlds in NY and eastern PA S100 crates were the rule as most were seen as the business strength machines and the apple/trs80 as toys. This was by people that didn't care what cpu only that it ran! <The initial impact of the PC was to get people to stop buying non-PC's for <their businesses. They were extremely costly at first, and didn't have a <few serious problems worked out. People had to mortgage their houses to bu <one (a basic PC on the gray-market cost nearly $2k). Not really. If you were invested in apple then PC was a non-player as nothing was compatable and you lost your investement going over. For the z80 crowd (TRS and S100 crates) that was slightly less a concern but PCs needed to get up to speed with applications first. Keep in mind when the PC was introduced the only 8086 stuff out there was ISIS based and mostly as development tools. It was the spread sheets and graphic programs that caused the great sucking sound of people going PC but, that would take more time than your indicating. Yes, I remember getting a bonus check becuase of the PC in 82. IT wasn't for implementing as a useful system it was for FIXing the design. Seems one of the design bugs was it would only run intel chipsets. As to the cost of a PC... equipped as a useful machine that could run production it was far from $2k! Allison

26 years, 8 months

Restoring an 8/E

by danburrows＠mindspring.com

>> I agree but for front panel switches and things that you want to look good >> without and drips I use the syringe. Then to I have them down to 2 >> microliter. The 50 microliter one is huge for my usual work. > >2 mm^3? That's small... Yes and the sample never makes it into the barrel of the syringe. The plunger is a long wire that is stepped is size. The large part is in the body and the small part goes the length of the needle. > The normal injection volume for GC/Mass spec is 1 or 2 microliters. The usual syringe used is 10 microliter. The plunger is the approx size of 26 or 28 gauge wire. They are stainless and they do bend and kink easily. I long ago lost count of the # I have messed up. Dan

26 years, 8 months

stepping machanism of Apple Disk ][ drive (was Re: Heatkit 51/4 floppies)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<You can build your own in an FPGA for something on the order of 2500 gates Gates or CPLDs? Big difference there. I do ahve a few 3030s here and can get 4000 seris. But why would I do it. then again I have an early 80s project that was a z80 built in 2901s... at a time where a 10mhz z80 was an extreme machine. Allison

26 years, 8 months

stepping machanism of Apple Disk ][ drive (was Re: Heatkit 51/4 floppies)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Think about it! It's really simple and you could easily build it as part o <a gate array. Try that with a Z-80 and see what you get. Did it with 2901s, contemporary to the mid 70s also. If course the 3201 intel two bit slice was in some ways more interesting. Allison

26 years, 8 months

Restoring an 8/E

by danburrows＠mindspring.com

> >The new name for that is dichloromethane IIRC.... Both names are currently used by the solvent vendors. > >And that's basically what 'plastic weld' is (or at least it smells like >it). But in the UK it's almost impossible to get chemicals for home use. >Dunno why, but I suspect sodium chloride would be unavailable if you >asked for it under that name ;-). You just need to know the right people in labs.:) You also don't want to know all the different things I have in my solvent cabinet or the explosion proof refrig. that is in one of my sheds.:) It is amazing what you can get (cheap or free) a lab bankruptcy sales. Especially when you know the people. > >> a 50 or a 100 microliter syringe to dispense it also. > >The easiest way that I've found to use it is to clamp the plastic >together and then to dip a small brush in the solvent and run it along >the crack. It'll be drawn into the crack by capillary action and will >weld the plastic together. I agree but for front panel switches and things that you want to look good without and drips I use the syringe. Then to I have them down to 2 microliter. The 50 microliter one is huge for my usual work. Dan

26 years, 8 months

Restoring an 8/E

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.COM

>>The new name for that is dichloromethane IIRC.... >Both names are currently used by the solvent vendors. >>And that's basically what 'plastic weld' is (or at least it smells like >>it). But in the UK it's almost impossible to get chemicals for home use. >>Dunno why, but I suspect sodium chloride would be unavailable if you >>asked for it under that name ;-). >You just need to know the right people in labs.:) Or head to your local plastics supplier - all of the ones I've ever dealt with are more than happy to sell you all the useful solvents. Incidentally, for those doing "front panel" restorations, talk to a good sign-making shop. It's rather straightforward these days to get custom plastic panels made and printed. I've had this done several times and have been very satisfied with the results. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

26 years, 8 months

Don Lancaster was Re: Ebay Mark-8 Plans

by jon＠techniche.com

Hi Sam, Possible suggestion for a speaker............Steve Ciarcia (SP?) You know the hardware guy who used to have a column in Byte and then started several of his own magazines. He also wrote "how to build a z80 home computer" (or something very close to that, I don't have it in front of me). He came to mind because I've been working in Conn for the last several months and I keep bumping into folks who know him. I also hear that there is a monthly dinner meeting of the ex-members of a now defunct computer club not far >from where I am working and that he often shows up. I know that he cammme on the scene later than some of the other people who have been mentioned as past or future VCF speakers, but he certainly meets the >10 rule. By the way does the VCF pay the speakers? Or their travel? Jon >On Fri, 9 Apr 1999, Joe wrote: > >> At 04:27 PM 4/9/99, Dave wrote: >> > >> >The seller also has the RE TVT plans by Don Lancaster. >> >> Speaking of Don Lancaster, has anyone asked him to speak at VCF or told >> him about this list? He's been involved with the home PCs since the >> beginning and is probably a wealth of infomation. > >I invited him to speak for VCF 1.0 but he wasy busy and told me to try >again some other time. Maybe I'll try again this year. > >On that topic, if anyone would like to suggest a speaker for VCF 3.0 (or >even be a speaker themself!) then please drop me a line with your >suggestion. Thanks! > >Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Don't rub the lamp if you don't want the genie to come out. > > Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 > See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! > [Last web site update: 04/03/99] > >

26 years, 8 months

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